Author Topic: Best anti Pocket Warship weapons?  (Read 13472 times)

monbvol

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Re: Best anti Pocket Warship weapons?
« Reply #60 on: 18 July 2017, 21:12:15 »
Perhaps ineffective is the wrong word.  Inefficient to the point of being semantics to not call it ineffective is probably a better way to put it.

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Re: Best anti Pocket Warship weapons?
« Reply #61 on: 18 July 2017, 21:29:32 »
Tell you what. You have fun never using capmissiles(or always using them, I'm kinda lost on your position at this point), we'll have fun using capmissiles when we feel like it and not using them when we don't feel like it, and we'll all be having fun.

Sounds like fun?
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monbvol

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Re: Best anti Pocket Warship weapons?
« Reply #62 on: 18 July 2017, 22:15:46 »
I'll break it down a bit.

First up:

Nothing's unstoppable if you can dodge it until you close to your own weapons range, and evasive action is in Total War. What are the odds of a gunnery 4 ship hitting you until standard long, if you're playing it smart by evading and turning for side aspect mods?

I have trouble taking this post as anything other than you declaring that the accuracy of Capital Missiles is too unreliable beyond Standard Long Range which matches up pretty close with Capital Medium.  Thinking about it and thinking about the answer to your question there I admitted defeat in my argument of Capital Missiles being over powered.

But then I get this:

They're still nice for smacking fighters outside of their own weapons range.

Just because they're not unstoppable and just because a tiny handful(proportionate to the total population of military DropShips) can make themselves really hard to hit with them without resorting to odd maneuvers doesn't mean they're a terrible idea. Just means they're not the be-all end-all of large craft weaponry and, like everything else, you have to think about their deployment to get the best use out of them.

Why wouldn't Dropships and ASFs evade when you know Capital Missiles are in play, especially under the Total Warfare AMS rules?

Especially when as I pointed out ASFs are even better at evading?

So if by your first quote I made there the expectation is that Capital Missiles are too inaccurate under Total Warfare rules to hit beyond Capital Medium Range with what you can do via just Total Warfare then how is this statement of mine incorrect:

Capital Missiles are a terrible idea and should not be considered without significant optional rules to make them even remotely useful in any role.

Because when you do consider their sheer mass and cost other weapons in Total Warfare make much better sense to mount in their place under the rules found there.

Jellico

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Re: Best anti Pocket Warship weapons?
« Reply #63 on: 19 July 2017, 04:49:48 »
Apologies. I am on a phone.


In Aerotech the various levels of rulesets are cuisines. Tactical scenarios are meals. Units are dishes, and weapons are ingredients.

Every ingredient is important. The trick is how to ise them across different cuisines and meals.

For example capital missiles are at their best across all rulesets when firing into a stationary ASF battle from long range when the shooter can be stable and the targets are too busy shooting to evade.
Capital missiles are an important and useful ingredient. But you need to know when and how much.


If you want to know what is most effective under TW have a look at the TROs between 3057 and 3075. This  is when we had a working ruleset but not the SO optional rules. SO buffs the TRO2750 ships and as a cinsequence capital missiles.
Before then the main advantage of capital missiles was their lack of a penalty against ASF. Conventional weapons were theoretically better AA and the ships from this period were designed accordingly.

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Re: Best anti Pocket Warship weapons?
« Reply #64 on: 19 July 2017, 18:34:43 »
That... is a marvelous metaphor.

Wrangler

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Re: Best anti Pocket Warship weapons?
« Reply #65 on: 20 July 2017, 06:13:26 »
Isn't the problem with fighters is how the fighter squadron rules came out?  AT2 introduced those, and suddenly you had fighter squadrons which were acting like warships when it came to capital armor.  it was bit confusing for the everyone when i was playing the Trial for Possession of the Unnamed Leviathan-Class WarShip. 

Now with newer rules, DropShips can operate in Squadron formations like the fighters. Which is good if you got deal with those nasty fighter squadrons and Warships.  Not that it improves your odds of surviving a capital weapons hit, but it helps!  Sadly, i've not seen this in action as of yet.   

I'd like try playing with Alpha Strike's Aerospace rules set to see how the dropships act when in squadron strength. 
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Re: Best anti Pocket Warship weapons?
« Reply #66 on: 20 July 2017, 08:34:27 »
The squadron rules you saw in AT2 are dead and gone, with the ones in StratOps being very different.

Alpha Strike doesn't have DropShip squadrons, you want Battleface(Battleforce space), still in StratOps. It's my favorite of all the Battletech space combat rulesets.
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Col Toda

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Re: Best anti Pocket Warship weapons?
« Reply #67 on: 20 July 2017, 21:12:40 »
The best systems for a warship to fight pocket Warships is docking collars , carrying your own pocket warships outfitted with Navel C3 and a couple of CV drop ships .  Use those to create an advance screen . Thr War Ship's long range Capital weapons and extended range weapon bays use the C3 while your screen engages the enemy .  The idea of a warship by itself engaging a few pocket warships is a losing proposition even if you win . If you lose initiative the enemy gets some control of the initial range during the first weapons range so the Sub capital weapons will do maximal damage by just being unlucky on the first die roll . Even if you blow the enemy up you lose the attrition war . Ferro Carbide armor loss and heaven forbid compact jump drive damage could equal 2 ot 3 orders of magnitude in C bill and resource loss then the losses incurred by the owners of the pocket warships. So other than assaulting Zenith or Nadir  jump points and taking possession of an Olympus Recharge Station or guarding a ship yard a  Star Lord with 4 pocket warships , a Avenger CV and an Overlord or Excalibur military drop ship is just about the best bang for the C biil with any loss being able to be absorbed by sny single planet while a single warship requires a multi star system just  to  train its crew.

Korzon77

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Re: Best anti Pocket Warship weapons?
« Reply #68 on: 21 July 2017, 01:22:42 »
Col toda speaks great truth. Note that unless this is a major AU, warships are more expensive and harder to replace than pocket warships, so it makes sense that you'll have a few escorts--and given the damage a warship can do, even a turn of having to play tag with the escorst will likely end in dead pws.

Also, a good turn of acceleration and rear weapons can be very helpful.  Unless you're defending a fixed point, running away while engaging with heavy weapons can be a good way to wear them down.

Kit deSummersville

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Re: Best anti Pocket Warship weapons?
« Reply #69 on: 21 July 2017, 08:45:45 »
Well in real war it helps to have way more guys than the enemy but in BattleTech folks want a fair fight on both sides....
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monbvol

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Re: Best anti Pocket Warship weapons?
« Reply #70 on: 21 July 2017, 11:01:20 »
The biggest problem I've always had with the space born aspect of the game is how much easier it is to start with a balanced game but suddenly things start snowballing.

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Re: Best anti Pocket Warship weapons?
« Reply #71 on: 22 July 2017, 15:57:27 »
I'm trying to imagine furniture that would convince me to keep playing against someone who likes to spring surprise changes in the ruleset. All I'm getting is a jacuzzi that happens to be on the bridge of an actual Star Destroyer.

Your thinking too small, said jacuzzi on said bridge of a Super Star Destroyer with a wet-bar and a Cabana server of your choice, good sir! Uniform optional...

But rules are rulesles, the options to the rules make for easier to play, if you allow them.

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