Author Topic: HABeas2  (Read 36141 times)

Fallen_Raven

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #180 on: 05 September 2011, 12:09:28 »
If you value your faction, you don't deride the developer :P

Or irritate him in the vain hope that he kills Caleb Davion out of spite. It won't work, but that never stops us from trying.
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Sid

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #181 on: 05 September 2011, 12:49:40 »
The topic was about Herb and why he doesn't want to share design creation with fans or staff or whatever.

It's legal issues.  Mostly.

There are a number of issues.  The largest is, as others have said, require lawyers.  When Battletech was first created, the owners licensed artwork from a Japanese company (one of the ones that dealt with Macross).  A different company later then licensed the rights to distribute Macross in the U.S as Robotech.  Lawsuits, finger pointing, lots of money spent later, several designs in the game are known as 'Unseen' because Cataclyst no longer has the rights to use the images they licensed.

Accepting submissions from fans (like you) that try to offer designs can cause a similar problem.  You might sign away rights to the design to have it submitted...but that doesn't mean that someone else they accept a design with who did the same might not turn around a few years from now and cause them headaches.  Maybe that person will use their design (which got published) in their own fanworks, or submit it to another company for example.

There's other reasons though, too.  There's already enough bickering between fans about 'author fiat'.  Look at the Hellstar- 4 ER PPCs... You let someone send you a design through a Private Message, or an e-mail and they start picking them... "How come Faction X gets this awesome design and Faction Y got this crappy design?"  While neither design would be crappy per se...just different uses.

That brings up the way designs are made.  The fact that you want to make an awesome assault 'mech is good.  Very good- the writers are doing their job.  The way the designs are made...they're meant to be 'alright'.  They're meant to be 'good', but not great or 'awesome'.  In other words, the designs people like Herb design are meant to make sense within the fiction (Davion trying out some Light ACs on one of their favorite chassis for example) but not be optimized

The idea behind this is that you, as a player, will have plenty of ways to improve it in the game.  For example, if you're playing a Davion and get that 'mech in a campaign, you can say "Those machine guns aren't doing anything for me.  So I'll take those off...that let's me add more armour"  Or drop some lasers for jumpjets...or whatever.

If they designed (or took your awesome design), there wouldn't be much reason for players to modify or tinker with the design.  And, as most fans want to submit optimized designs, fan designs aren't that healthy for the game when it comes to mass produced units.  Unique 'mechs such as the Bounty Hunter's Marauder II C are meant to be 'awesome' by the way...but players normally wouldn't get it for their own characters.  Therefor you get say, a Direwolf, then get to design your own configuration with what the GM has given you- much healthier.

Finally, they're trying to flush out the choices- especially with Clan 'mechs.  Omnimechs are hot swappable, so their configuration doesn't matter that much.  You'll note that the Nova Cat and Timber Wolf are both 75 tons...yet one has a larger engine than the other.  There's little point in designing another 75 ton Clan Omnimech that goes ~86Kph or ~64Kph simply because you already have those 'mechs in the Timber Wolf and Nova Cat. 

In fact, if the Timber Wolf and Nova Cat had the same engine and internals, just changing a bit of armour allocation and you could quite literally load the Nova Cat out with the Timber Wolf config.

That makes the different 'mechs pointless.  What's the point of new 'mechs?  Why take an Atlas over an Annihilator if changing an atlas variant to an annihilator variant was just as easy as changing one atlas variant to another Atlas variant?

So the writers (Well Herb) will look at it and then say "Faction X has no 95 ton 'mech that goes only 32Kph" or "Faction Y doesn't have a 65 ton non-Omnimech that goes 86Kph and has jumpjets" and they work from there. 

Finally, they don't have a lot of time on their hands- many of them (as I recall) work a 'real' job in addition to writting.  Herb, when he was one step down (Assistant Line Developer) was, in fact, working at Home Depot I believe.

Their time is valuable enough already- from what I understand, the contests to design a 'mech (where it was a competition and most of the details already flushed out- making the legal issues less so than otherwise) was a real headache for them.

That, combined with all the other reasons, is enough for them to do it in house.

I'm sure they have other reasons too....those are just some of the ones I remember reading about from them on here at one point or another.
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Revanche

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #182 on: 05 September 2011, 13:04:50 »
Exxon isn't interested in your ideas about refining gasoline, Apple doesn't care about your concept for the iPhone 6 and The Powers That Be do not want your unsolicited mechs for BT.

Best short version I've read. Explains that user ideas are not necessarily in line with the direction of the product. 'Good' is often only in the eyes of the beholder.

Mechwarriorfreak

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #183 on: 05 September 2011, 14:01:08 »
Best short version I've read. Explains that user ideas are not necessarily in line with the direction of the product. 'Good' is often only in the eyes of the beholder.
Thats cuz they don't give us a direction. If they wanted a missile boat that could run fast I'd make a 97.2 km/h 65 ton mech with a couple of LRMs and SRMs. But no, they don't give a hoot about the ideas we give. So we just have to be satisfied with the fan created stuff.  [tickedoff]
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Sid

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #184 on: 05 September 2011, 14:07:35 »
Thats cuz they don't give us a direction. If they wanted a missile boat that could run fast I'd make a 97.2 km/h 65 ton mech with a couple of LRMs and SRMs. But no, they don't give a hoot about the ideas we give. So we just have to be satisfied with the fan created stuff.  [tickedoff]

Did you not see my post above?

Or others?

They don't want designs for a number of reasons.  Mainly because they don't want to be sued or get another fans upset. 

Taking your design is a bad idea for them, no matter how good you are at making 'mechs.
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ItsTehPope

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #185 on: 05 September 2011, 14:34:42 »
Thats cuz they don't give us a direction. If they wanted a missile boat that could run fast I'd make a 97.2 km/h 65 ton mech with a couple of LRMs and SRMs. But no, they don't give a hoot about the ideas we give. So we just have to be satisfied with the fan created stuff.  [tickedoff]

We've explained *multiple* times and reasons why they do not accept fan solicited designs, all of them extremely valid.  Until you manage to work your way into the inner circle, its not going to happen.  That is all there is to it.
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(4:52:52 PM) ShinjoJinturi: simply by having tag on the field, even in a game that appears to not have any lrms or arrows on the board, you can inspire fear

BlazingSky

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #186 on: 05 September 2011, 14:40:27 »
Thats cuz they don't give us a direction. If they wanted a missile boat that could run fast I'd make a 97.2 km/h 65 ton mech with a couple of LRMs and SRMs. But no, they don't give a hoot about the ideas we give. So we just have to be satisfied with the fan created stuff.  [tickedoff]

Mainly because your (and mine, and his, and hers, and ours) ideas suck. People tend to make mechs that win. TPTB can't do that for everyone (nor would they want to) so making that WTFPWN design is not good for business.
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Hawkeye Jim

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #187 on: 05 September 2011, 14:44:32 »
I bet they'd take my fiction. It's great reading for those nights when you need help going to sleep. Read a page and a half and you're out.

M-Rex

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #188 on: 05 September 2011, 14:46:21 »
Thats cuz they don't give us a direction. If they wanted a missile boat that could run fast I'd make a 97.2 km/h 65 ton mech with a couple of LRMs and SRMs. But no, they don't give a hoot about the ideas we give. So we just have to be satisfied with the fan created stuff.  [tickedoff]

You know...it's just easier to put you on 'ignore'.  This thread has reached it's logical conclusion.


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ItsTehPope

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #189 on: 05 September 2011, 14:50:14 »
I bet they'd take my fiction. It's great reading for those nights when you need help going to sleep. Read a page and a half and you're out.

Cisco study guides are drier than Arizona during wildfire season.  Those can drop you in a page.  Beat that!  ;D
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(4:37:55 PM) moonsword134: You're a bastard.
(4:38:11 PM) moonsword134: And so's the talking whiskey monkey who lives in bottles of tequila to give you ideas.

(4:52:52 PM) ShinjoJinturi: simply by having tag on the field, even in a game that appears to not have any lrms or arrows on the board, you can inspire fear

Sartris

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #190 on: 05 September 2011, 14:53:32 »
Thats cuz they don't give us a direction. If they wanted a missile boat that could run fast I'd make a 97.2 km/h 65 ton mech with a couple of LRMs and SRMs. But no, they don't give a hoot about the ideas we give. So we just have to be satisfied with the fan created stuff.  [tickedoff]

Yes, yes we do.  Or you can use an entire giant book full of construction rules that they have provided to make your own.  We are not without means.  If you want to whine because your idea isn't canon, get in line.

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Trent

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #191 on: 05 September 2011, 15:24:35 »
Thats cuz they don't give us a direction. If they wanted a missile boat that could run fast I'd make a 97.2 km/h 65 ton mech with a couple of LRMs and SRMs. But no, they don't give a hoot about the ideas we give. So we just have to be satisfied with the fan created stuff.  [tickedoff]

And that's a problem... why?

It's not about what THEY want, it's about what YOU want. You have the tools to make whatever you want already. Go make it, and play it.

They design units, factions, stories, and worlds (in different eras no less) that we can all share in common. Beyond that, how you fill up the big, empty universe is up to you, and how you want to play YOUR game. There's more than enough units already in the stock game, for us to have in common - it's actually rather overwhelming to new people, in a way. I have 14 (14!) TRO's in my bookshelf, and that is *still* an incomplete unit set.

Just to get through the stock game content, if you were want to play every unit already in publication in 4x4 skirmishes, you're looking at a LOT of table time to get through them all.

My point is, I don't think there's a pressing need for dumping time and energy in to even MORE units when there are bigger fish to fry filling in the big empty spots in the universe (Interstellar Operations, SLDF era storylines, dark ages, etc / etc)

But, that's not to say you can't embellish your own game as much as you want - in fact, that's kind of the POINT of the whole thing. :)

JadeHellbringer

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #192 on: 05 September 2011, 16:36:39 »
You know...it's just easier to put you on 'ignore'.  This thread has reached it's logical conclusion.

Or you could, you know, just not post in it anymore instead of making snide comments.
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Mechwarriorfreak

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #193 on: 05 September 2011, 17:00:12 »
I bet they'd take my fiction. It's great reading for those nights when you need help going to sleep. Read a page and a half and you're out.
I agree! LOL  ;D
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M-Rex

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #194 on: 05 September 2011, 19:54:49 »
Snide is subjective.

How 'bout the thread be closed since anything that could be said has already been said three times, by my count.  I think maybe more.
« Last Edit: 05 September 2011, 19:57:35 by M-Rex »


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Mechwarriorfreak

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #195 on: 05 September 2011, 20:02:17 »
Snide is subjective.

How 'bout the thread be closed since anything that could be said has already been said three times, by my count.  I think maybe more.
Thats up to the Global Moderators to decide that. ;) Keep in mind, you weren't the one who started the topic pal.
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ItsTehPope

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #196 on: 05 September 2011, 20:04:34 »
Boys.

Rule #1
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(4:37:55 PM) moonsword134: You're a bastard.
(4:38:11 PM) moonsword134: And so's the talking whiskey monkey who lives in bottles of tequila to give you ideas.

(4:52:52 PM) ShinjoJinturi: simply by having tag on the field, even in a game that appears to not have any lrms or arrows on the board, you can inspire fear

StCptMara

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #197 on: 05 September 2011, 20:17:33 »
We've explained *multiple* times and reasons why they do not accept fan solicited designs, all of them extremely valid.  Until you manage to work your way into the inner circle, its not going to happen.  That is all there is to it.

Put another way:
A guy sued for ownership of the IP because he used large portions(uncredited) of the original Eridani Light Horse entry, and tagged some
stuff in at the end, and the website here several incarnations ago(when it was nothing more then a FAN site) accidentally put it up(they
thought they had found the original Eridani Light Horse info, and missed the differences).

What makes TPTB think that any OTHER fan would not do the same thing? It is just safer to say "No, we will do our own stuff."
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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #198 on: 05 September 2011, 21:04:28 »
as much as i'd like it, it's all too obvious that to invite fan designs  is too much trouble and too much work for too little results for the odds to be anything close to likely.


still, i keep the favorite designs to myself just in case.....
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jackson123

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #199 on: 05 September 2011, 21:07:30 »
running a company is hard. please cut the man a break. thank you.

HABeas2

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #200 on: 05 September 2011, 21:18:07 »
Hello,

Put another way:
A guy sued for ownership of the IP because he used large portions(uncredited) of the original Eridani Light Horse entry, and tagged some
stuff in at the end, and the website here several incarnations ago(when it was nothing more then a FAN site) accidentally put it up(they
thought they had found the original Eridani Light Horse info, and missed the differences).

This, and other examples that have both happened and have nearly happened, are why we do not accept off-the-street concepts, ideas, and designs, and why any such proposals to us are left (or even deleted) unread in these forums and elsewhere. Every time I have relaxed that rule and even discussed an outside idea solicited to me with someone who is not among my stable of freelancers, I have been burned. And this game line is too established and too important to me to burn for what amounts to fan service.

If you wish direct discourse with me, do so in the Ask the Developers board. If you attempt to solicit ideas to me via private means (such as forum Private Messages and e-mail), consider silence a typical answer. This is for my protection and yours as well.

Thank you,

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Hersh67

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #201 on: 05 September 2011, 22:49:00 »
Wow.  Herb came down from Mount Sinai with stone written tablets for you.  You ought to feel privledged now.



BTW, I don't always agree with Herb (and I have said so to his face, once), but I also do not go out of my way to tick him off, either.  Now might be a good time for a mod to lock this.  Suggestion only.

Charlie Tango

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Re: HABeas2
« Reply #202 on: 05 September 2011, 22:53:51 »
I have to tend to agree.  This thread has run its course.
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