Precedent for Characters who are Mechwarriors AND Aerospace Pilots

[Elcor05]

So I'm currently toying with the idea of multi-disciplinary characters in the BT Universe. I know that Mechs are king, and that being able to pilot both a 'Mech and a ship (or tank, or dropship, or whatever) would probably make them worse at piloting both things. But are there any characters in novels or source books who blurr the line? I'm getting more of the source books, and want to get a Time of War, but don't have it yet, so it's hard for me to look up the specific rules on if this is even possible. I think the Clans wouldn't like it much (although any exact sources would be super helpful). I also vaguely remember Kai Allard-Liao using Elemental Armor, and Phelan Ward having some Aerospace training, but I'd imagine they're much more exceptions than the rule. Thanks for any help!

[Giovanni Blasini]

LAM pilots by necessity were cross-trained.

[ColBosch]

TR3075, p.100, has the notable pilot of the Rusalka Spectral ASF trained in both 'Mechs and aerospace fighters. It's really not that bizarre a concept. Both 'Mechs and aerospace fighters are single-crew machines controlled by neurohelmets. You'd need an exceptional person to pilot both well, but then that's what RPG characters are.

Perhaps the character is the third child of a family that owns both a 'Mech and an ASF, and thus trained to be ready to pilot either should their older siblings die or wash out. Perhaps the PC is a bounty hunter who specializes in seizing machines to cover debts or the like. Perhaps they were trained to pilot 'Mechs, but couldn't secure one on graduation, so shifted to aerospace fighters to avoid becoming very expensive infantry. Maybe they're just a thrillseeker who learned to fly for the adrenaline rush.

There's lots of options, and while there's not a ton of precedence, there is enough to establish that it can happen.

[Liam's Ghost]

I'm pretty certain that one of the earlier books, maybe the original boxed set rulebook, suggested that some pilots from well to do families would be cross trained as a matter of course.

[Giovanni Blasini]

Don't the Ghost Bears also have failed MechWarriors who successfully retested as aerospace fighter pilots?

[Maelwys]

They don't use the aerospace phenotype, and FM:Crusader Clan states that "Unlike many Clans, failure in the initial Trial of Position does not immediately relegate an aspiring Ghost Bear into the ranks of lower castes. Rather, the cadet is shifted to another warrior subcaste, his or her placement based on aptitude tests, in the hopes that the cadet may test out more positively there."

So its possible to find Ghost Bears that have trained for one, and gotten into the other branch.

I'd also expect to find IS special forces that have cross-trained. Obviously not all of them, but some sure.

Heck, pretty much all of the early ProtoMech Warriors were cross-trained, since they were failed aerospace pilots, who then transferred into the ProtoMech training program.

[SCC]

Before the arrival of the Clans cross-training of 'MechWarrior's is more likely to armor (Tanks), afterwards, BattleArmor, then Aero

[ColBosch]

And this also passes the "reality check." I know a former tank crewman who became a pilot (private, not military), and I am personally working towards going to helicopter flight school in the next year or two. The skills might not be directly relatable, but neither are they mutually incompatible.

Before the arrival of the Clans cross-training of 'MechWarrior's is more likely to armor (Tanks), afterwards, BattleArmor, then Aero

I don't think the OP is concerned with "likelihood," more "can it happen at all." And the answer is very much yes. Rare, certainly, but it does happen.

[Lorcan Nagle]

Katana Tormark, the leader of the Dragon's Fury and later Warlord of Dieron was cross-trained as a MechWarrior and fighter pilot.

[Frabby]

Wasn't Franklin Sakamoto (of 1st Somerset Strikers fame) seen piloting 'Mechs, fighters, and battle armor?

[Lorcan Nagle]

Wasn't Franklin Sakamoto (of 1st Somerset Strikers fame) seen piloting 'Mechs, fighters, and battle armor?

In the cartoon, yeah.  I don't know if that's been held over to his other appearances (pretty sure he wasn't in any of them in Black Dragon, anyway)

[hive_angel]

You have the right idea.

One of my players in my campaign has a dual mechwarrior/dropship skill. He excels in mechwarrior piloting while being basic in dropship piloting. I wouldn't worry to much how cannon it is or not as this avoids accidently creating a dual skilled charactar and then telling the character how it should be played.

I think a suggestion on balance between the skills or a one is better than the other instead of both exceling at the same time.

I find when creating dual skilled characters under the standard point value back history time take s a lot of points severly limiting rounding a charcter out with other nonessential vehicle/combat skills.

Again your game, your character in the end.

[Decoy]

Katana Tormark, the leader of the Dragon's Fury and later Warlord of Dieron was cross-trained as a MechWarrior and fighter pilot.

Another MW: DA example, Dianne Jameson was cross-trained as well. She flies a Shiva in the fight for Ankaa at one point.

[phoenixalpha]

Old fashioned LAM pilots *had* to be cross trained. Just the way it was.

I'm sure there are a few people in the BTU that have multidiscipline skill sets in Aero/Mech Piloting as well as Gunnery. I'm also sure that several retired mech pilots who may have gotten a bit of cash might retire to be dropship Captains as its a helluva lot easier hauling than fighting but still being "in the war" if you know what I mean.

[Liam's Ghost]

Nobody's mentioned Adamn Steiner yet?

[Elcor05]

Awesome, thanks for all of the responses everyone. It sounds like most get training in both, but almost always do one or the other (mostly thinking of the Clans.)

Nobody's mentioned Adamn Steiner yet?

What'd he do?

You have the right idea.

One of my players in my campaign has a dual mechwarrior/dropship skill. He excels in mechwarrior piloting while being basic in dropship piloting. I wouldn't worry to much how cannon it is or not as this avoids accidently creating a dual skilled charactar and then telling the character how it should be played.

I think a suggestion on balance between the skills or a one is better than the other instead of both exceling at the same time.

I find when creating dual skilled characters under the standard point value back history time take s a lot of points severly limiting rounding a charcter out with other nonessential vehicle/combat skills.

Again your game, your character in the end.

Yeah true, but I want to make sure that I'm not creating a character that Idk, with 'Mechs king everyone would treat them as some freak. ESPECIALLY the Clans.

[Liam's Ghost]

What'd he do?

He was big on cross training and was capable as both a fighter pilot and a mech pilot.

[Giovanni Blasini]

Hell, don't forget Yvonne Morticia of Team Banzai, who piloted an Orion, a DropShip, and commanded their JumpShip, the Nth Dimension.

[Lord greystroke]

I would think it must be a common concept in the spec ops side of things not sure if they really mention it much but its a good idea , also I am pro it as a personal opinion as my last RPG character could pilot mechs , aerospace fighters, dropships and warships that was a 3060+ campaign and he was really something C* ultimate Swiss army knife

[VictorMorson]

I am surprised the thread got this far without mentioning DEST and the other special forces in the IS which are cross-trained to a degree in two or more fields.

In fact DEST I believe have at least minimal training in armor and BA too, don't they?

[YingJanshi]

I'm equally surprised no one has brought up the Capellan Death Commandos. They're trained to use just about every type of war machine out there.

Also, in the late Succession Wars, Dispossessed MechWarriors would likely find themselves among tankers (or infantry if very unlucky...)

[Diamondshark]

The Fidelis are extensively cross-trained in the Dark Ages, so there would likely be plenty of aerospace/mechwarrior hybrids.

[Dulahan]

Yeah, it was the Spec Ops groups I came into this to do.  Even in some of the fiction they have internal monologues about doing what's needed.  Lots of training.

DEST, Death Commandos, Loki/Heimdall, etc.   Let alone Fidelis

[Sir Chaos]

In fact DEST I believe have at least minimal training in armor and BA too, don't they?

Well, we know they are trained to fight as "conventional" special forces as well as in battle armor, and judging from the part of "Black Dragon" where the renegade DEST try to steal the Caballero mechs, at least some of them have MechWarrior training.

They probably aren´t "cross-trained" in the sense that they can hold their own against enemies of equal strength in mech combat - but enough to, after sneaking into an enemy hangar, power up some mechs and shoot their way out of the enemy base before absconding with their new rides. Effectively green rating, I´d guess, versus elite rating as conventional or BA infantry.

[Archangel]

Within DEST there probably are sub-units that focus more on 'Mech or Aerospace combat than their fellow DEST commandos.  Like the House Liao's Death Commandos those assigned to such units likely have personal BattleMechs/AeroSpace fighters permanently assigned to them.

[Lorcan Nagle]

They probably aren´t "cross-trained" in the sense that they can hold their own against enemies of equal strength in mech combat - but enough to, after sneaking into an enemy hangar, power up some mechs and shoot their way out of the enemy base before absconding with their new rides. Effectively green rating, I´d guess, versus elite rating as conventional or BA infantry.

There's some precedent for this in the game.  The old Intelligence Operations Handbook for MechWarrior 2nd Edition had a special forces archetype with green-level Piloting and Gunnery skills.

[Sir Chaos]

Within DEST there probably are sub-units that focus more on 'Mech or Aerospace combat than their fellow DEST commandos.  Like the House Liao's Death Commandos those assigned to such units likely have personal BattleMechs/AeroSpace fighters permanently assigned to them.

I imagine there are DEST team who can do the same with ASF as most can with Mechs. For that matter, I wouldn´t be surprised if some DEST teams, between their various members, have all the skills needed to steal dropships, maybe even jumpships.

[Intermittent_Coherence]

They don't use the aerospace phenotype, and FM:Crusader Clan states that "Unlike many Clans, failure in the initial Trial of Position does not immediately relegate an aspiring Ghost Bear into the ranks of lower castes. Rather, the cadet is shifted to another warrior subcaste, his or her placement based on aptitude tests, in the hopes that the cadet may test out more positively there."

Bjorn Jorgensson. Started out training as a Mechwarrior. Failed his trial. Retrained as an ASF Pilot. Earned Star Captain on his 2nd trial. Eventually became Khan.

[Hellraiser]

So I'm currently toying with the idea of multi-disciplinary characters in the BT Universe. I know that Mechs are king, and that being able to pilot both a 'Mech and a ship (or tank, or dropship, or whatever) would probably make them worse at piloting both things. But are there any characters in novels or source books who blurr the line? I'm getting more of the source books, and want to get a Time of War, but don't have it yet, so it's hard for me to look up the specific rules on if this is even possible. I think the Clans wouldn't like it much (although any exact sources would be super helpful). I also vaguely remember Kai Allard-Liao using Elemental Armor, and Phelan Ward having some Aerospace training, but I'd imagine they're much more exceptions than the rule. Thanks for any help!

Kai wasn't cross trained, but they stuffed him into a suit with a few hours/days practice & he didn't risk doing anything iffy like using the Jump Jets or anything.

Phelan was no Pilot that I recall.  But he was a Khan & as such was on the bridge of a McKenna when they engaged a Mjolnir.  But that's as a spectator not as the Star Commodore/Admiral who was doing the actual commanding.

Awesome, thanks for all of the responses everyone. It sounds like most get training in both, but almost always do one or the other (mostly thinking of the Clans.)

Yeah true, but I want to make sure that I'm not creating a character that Idk, with 'Mechs king everyone would treat them as some freak. ESPECIALLY the Clans.

To be clear.  "Most" do not get cross trained.
All these examples are of special cases.  None of it is the norm.
It happens, for sure, but its not common.

[Archangel]

Phelan was no Pilot that I recall.  But he was a Khan & as such was on the bridge of a McKenna when they engaged a Mjolnir.  But that's as a spectator not as the Star Commodore/Admiral who was doing the actual commanding.

He may be referring to the training Phelan underwent under Carew tutelage.  Even so I believe it wasn't actual Aerospace Pilot training but rather how to deal with attacking Aerospace Fighters as a MechWarrior.