Author Topic: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?  (Read 108246 times)

Weirdo

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #690 on: 10 June 2017, 19:05:21 »
Ignore the community, play what sounds like fun.

Regardless of the temptation, avoid loading up ships with every upgrade card they can possibly hold. Most will work just fine with only a few upgrades(if any), and while upgrades are nice for force-multiplying, there's no substitute for have more hulls for your opponent to chew through.

If you're playing Imps, you really can't go wrong with "Front Towards Enemy". :)
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iamfanboy

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #691 on: 10 June 2017, 20:04:54 »
Eehh, I think that there's a rather moderate pushback on that. Considering the strength of the Euro tournament that just had a Rhymerball win with a much more balanced top 16....

Armada is a wargame that FEELS more expensive than most because of that initial, up-front kick in the balls $100 cost - which frustratingly doesn't even include enough dice to play the larger ships, so that's another $15 retail. It also includes ships that you may not need if you want to play one faction, and that you may even need to buy an individual blister of anyway to get titles and upgrades!

HOWEVER, Armada matches the median wargame cost of about $300 for a reasonably versatile fleet with ships and squadrons. It also comes in well under Warmachine and - spirits forbear! - 40k for price point. Sure, an ISD is $50, BUT it's also 35% of a fleet in that one ship!


These guys are armada fanboys, but do bring up all the reasons to play Armada:

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/02/why-play-armada-what-makes-it-unique.html

And their blog is also really good and reasonably entertaining; that post is tagged as their 101 series and those give the basics really well.

I enjoy it because of the scale, personally.

gooseman

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #692 on: 10 June 2017, 20:49:05 »
Have fun.  It is an investment.  Have fun.

Yeah, no. I'm our group's "X-Wing guy". I am not investing in Armada.
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #693 on: 11 June 2017, 08:35:15 »
Yeah, no. I'm our group's "X-Wing guy". I am not investing in Armada.
Only do it if you like fleet on fleet and Star Wars. Otherwise, the miniatures are of an excellent quality for a game miniature.
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NeonKnight

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #694 on: 11 June 2017, 12:12:30 »
Ignore the community, play what sounds like fun.

Regardless of the temptation, avoid loading up ships with every upgrade card they can possibly hold. Most will work just fine with only a few upgrades(if any), and while upgrades are nice for force-multiplying, there's no substitute for have more hulls for your opponent to chew through.

If you're playing Imps, you really can't go wrong with "Front Towards Enemy". :)

In  anut shell that's about it.

Imps is forward shooty heavy, Rebs are mostly Side-Shooty heavy
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NeonKnight

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #695 on: 11 June 2017, 12:23:21 »
Eehh, I think that there's a rather moderate pushback on that. Considering the strength of the Euro tournament that just had a Rhymerball win with a much more balanced top 16....

Armada is a wargame that FEELS more expensive than most because of that initial, up-front kick in the balls $100 cost - which frustratingly doesn't even include enough dice to play the larger ships, so that's another $15 retail. It also includes ships that you may not need if you want to play one faction, and that you may even need to buy an individual blister of anyway to get titles and upgrades!

HOWEVER, Armada matches the median wargame cost of about $300 for a reasonably versatile fleet with ships and squadrons. It also comes in well under Warmachine and - spirits forbear! - 40k for price point. Sure, an ISD is $50, BUT it's also 35% of a fleet in that one ship!


These guys are armada fanboys, but do bring up all the reasons to play Armada:

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/02/why-play-armada-what-makes-it-unique.html

And their blog is also really good and reasonably entertaining; that post is tagged as their 101 series and those give the basics really well.

I enjoy it because of the scale, personally.

My personal distaste for Armada is the fact that is one wants to play competetively you must buy ships from BOTH factions.

Want to play Imperials? Want to load up that Demolisher Gladiator-Class Star Destroyer with Assault Proton Torpedoes to really give them Rebel Scum a hard hit? Then you need to BUY the MC30c Frigate Expansion Pack, because you ain't gonna find it elsewhere.

And it is the same thing for Rebel Players. Want the Expanded Launchers for your Rebel Ship(s)? The you need to buy the Gladiator Class Star Destroyer.

In fun games, don't worry about it, as (hopefully?) your opponent won't care, and a photocopy for competition will not cut it.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #696 on: 11 June 2017, 13:17:12 »
Xwing has some of the same issues, though with their larger product range you have more duplicate options for many cards.

iamfanboy

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #697 on: 11 June 2017, 14:54:13 »
I don't bother with Assault Proton Torps on my Gladiator - Expanded Launchers is WAAAAY better. Dumping 10 dice, 8 of them black, into someone at close range is a much more solid bet than expecting to roll a random crit - and you'll probably cut through their shields anyway, so any crits will be face-up regardless!

But yes. That's a reality of the business model they've set up. I certainly don't think it's as bad as it is in X-Wing (seriously, there are no Imperial ships with Engine Upgrade, one of the most BASIC cards out there! Autothrusters comes in ONE SHIP, and all three factions have ships which require it!) but at least with Armada if you buy something off-faction you'll still have SOME use of it, seeing as how the core box has ships for both factions and it doesn't require too many ships to get to a full fleet.


However, I bought my stuff mostly to set up a forced perspective display at some point in the near future, with the small Armada ships waaaay in the back and the bigger X-Wing stuff in front. :D

NeonKnight

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #698 on: 11 June 2017, 17:42:28 »
I don't bother with Assault Proton Torps on my Gladiator - Expanded Launchers is WAAAAY better. Dumping 10 dice, 8 of them black, into someone at close range is a much more solid bet than expecting to roll a random crit - and you'll probably cut through their shields anyway, so any crits will be face-up regardless!

But yes. That's a reality of the business model they've set up. I certainly don't think it's as bad as it is in X-Wing (seriously, there are no Imperial ships with Engine Upgrade, one of the most BASIC cards out there! Autothrusters comes in ONE SHIP, and all three factions have ships which require it!) but at least with Armada if you buy something off-faction you'll still have SOME use of it, seeing as how the core box has ships for both factions and it doesn't require too many ships to get to a full fleet.


However, I bought my stuff mostly to set up a forced perspective display at some point in the near future, with the small Armada ships waaaay in the back and the bigger X-Wing stuff in front. :D

Really? I like:

Assault Proton Torpedeos and Admiral Screed.

Spend a die (Hmm...how about this REGULAR Hit Black die) to a Black die WITH HIT and a Critical, and due a Guaranteed Crit to the enemy...might even be a structural damage for bonus damage :D

And that card also if one gets a regular crit allows one to deal two face up cards. One for getting a Crit, and 1 from the card.
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DisGruntled_kbd

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #699 on: 12 June 2017, 08:18:22 »
APT's face up card also happens before damage is applied, so if you get the shield failure crit you get a lot more hull damage.

NeonKnight

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #700 on: 12 June 2017, 09:37:22 »
APT's face up card also happens before damage is applied, so if you get the shield failure crit you get a lot more hull damage.

I know  >:D

And couple with my absolute favorite Officer card - INTEL OFFICER...and it's TAKE THAT REBEL SCUM!
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iamfanboy

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #701 on: 12 June 2017, 11:45:54 »
Really? I like:

Assault Proton Torpedeos and Admiral Screed.

Spend a die (Hmm...how about this REGULAR Hit Black die) to a Black die WITH HIT and a Critical, and due a Guaranteed Crit to the enemy...might even be a structural damage for bonus damage :D

And that card also if one gets a regular crit allows one to deal two face up cards. One for getting a Crit, and 1 from the card.
...No...

If you roll a crit, you choose a crit effect. The default crit effect is "Flip a faceup card if it deals hull damage." If you select the APT crit effect, then you don't get the default one. You can only select one crit effect per attack, no matter how many crits you roll, so it's either the APT or standard. Page 4 rules reference.

I mean, Screed's okay, but using him cuts out Motti for making my ships way tougher than any Rebel could handle (17 hull on an ISD with Reinforced Blast Doors?!) or Moff Jerry for making my ships insanely maneuverable. Or Vader for making me able to reroll EVERYTHING - particularly great if I'm fishing for an Accuracy to lock down a pesty flotilla's Scatter, and he can also fish for crits if I'm really desperate.

If I ever started having serious trouble with Rieekan Aceholes taking over my local games, I might invest in Screed and a Raider with Flechette Torps to guarantee constant lockdowns, and in that case yeah I'd use an APT Demolisher and a ton of black dice ships.

But to this point we're just havin' fun and not really being too serious. Speaking of serious...


I was going to go to a decently sized X-Wing tournament yesterday with some friends. Was planning on bringing Quickdraw with Rage and Electronic Baffles to quickly shoot twice with a ton of mods on both rolls along with some other stuff (though I was also tempted to run the new Swarm Leader EPT on a Decimator with some cheap Academy Pilots to feed it Evades and an endgame ship of some flavor, Inquisitor or Omega Leader).

However, as I was walking out to the car... BAM. Ankle pain out of nowhere. It wasn't bad, but it got worse the more I tried to put weight on it and I definitely did not want to spend sixish hours standing over an X-Wing board.

So I missed out on the prizes. Oh well, Tactician isn't that great anyway, even if it does have a sexy Scum woman on the art.

HobbesHurlbut

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #702 on: 12 June 2017, 18:38:01 »
So APT is useful for dealing a crit effect on ships with the shield still remaining in the arc against your attacks.
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Empyrus

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #703 on: 18 August 2017, 12:10:44 »
THEY'RE ADDING ASSAULT GUNBOAT! WOO!

Also some other ships. But ASSAULT GUNBOAT!!  [blank]

NeonKnight

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #704 on: 18 August 2017, 12:16:38 »
THEY'RE ADDING ASSAULT GUNBOAT! WOO!

Also some other ships. But ASSAULT GUNBOAT!!  [blank]

Armada or Xwing? Please say Armada!
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Empyrus

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #705 on: 18 August 2017, 12:41:25 »
X-wing.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/256546-wave-12-announced/

Not sure they got anything for Armada...

EDIT Actually, looks like there will be something coming for Armada but no announcement yet.

Weirdo

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #706 on: 18 August 2017, 12:50:30 »
THEY'RE ADDING ASSAULT GUNBOAT! WOO!

Also some other ships. But ASSAULT GUNBOAT!!  [blank]

Link?
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Empyrus

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #707 on: 18 August 2017, 13:03:20 »
Assault Gunboat:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHhkTnDXcAAOKpF.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHhkTnBXYAArFyJ.jpg:large

Twitter images (didn't open other ones, will see if i can find them again). Discussion thread linked above.

And the other ships:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHhkTnBXsAANT7m.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHhkTnBXkAAuWbv.jpg:large


The AG has new "reload action" and jamming beam (presumably a cannon) usable with a title. Also SLAM action, it is kind of mix of Missile Boat and Assault Gunboat from old canon.

EDIT  video with pics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_PYrbXmKy0
« Last Edit: 18 August 2017, 13:32:45 by Empyrus »

glitterboy2098

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #708 on: 18 August 2017, 15:33:56 »
The AG has new "reload action" and jamming beam (presumably a cannon) usable with a title. Also SLAM action, it is kind of mix of Missile Boat and Assault Gunboat from old canon.
well there was not really as much difference between those two as the visuals implied. handling it as a title works well i think. and combining the two lets them give it more options and make it more unique within the game.

personally i am interested in the Sheathipede shuttle/Phantom II. already have a VCX-100 Ghost and Phantom I, curious to see what new tricks it can do with the Phantom II. plus i rather like the look of the Sheathipede, even the cut down one from Rebels.

kinda makes we wish the VCX-100 model was created with a modular dock on the model for the shuttle though, so i could actually replace the standard aux shuttle with the Sheathipede, and physical remove either during play when they undock, the way the Gozanti carries its fighters.

my rebel shopping list just became "heroes of the resistance, Phantom II, Rebel Transport" in roughly that order.
« Last Edit: 18 August 2017, 15:36:19 by glitterboy2098 »

Charlie 6

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #709 on: 18 August 2017, 18:34:41 »
Nada for Armada, I understand.

iamfanboy

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #710 on: 18 August 2017, 18:44:20 »
I feel... conflicted... about X-Wing lately.

On the one hand, the core mechanic of plot dials, reveal and resolve in ascending pilot skill order, and then attack in descending pilot skill order is amazing and solid. I love the miniatures, I love the alternate game modes like Epic, Kessel Kup, and Heroes of the Aturi Cluster, and I'm not ever giving up my ships.

On the other hand, the game itself is broken competitively. Around 5% of everything ever printed is currently being used competitively, and that might not be bad if the game was just whatever the devs make up like Magic the Gathering, but this is Star Wars. The draw is X-Wings, TIE Fighters, Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader, not Tel Tevura, Jumpmasters, Tugboats, and other obscure things that show up in one novel for a few pages or a twenty year old video game and nowhere else.

What might also make it better is if there were actually other ways to play being endorsed by FFG, but no dice there.


It's just... I'm really starting to dislike actually playing the game. It's about finding combos and stacking abilities and trying not to lose the rock-paper-scissors matchups too badly, not flying well and trying to outguess your opponent. The best game I had recently was a near-mirror match where it came down to my Quickdraw and his Backdraft with Adaptability, both of us with one damage, and it was a final moment where we had to guess how the other would move... and I guessed wrong and lost. But it was AWESOME, everything that I've ever loved about X-Wing, a game about arc dodging and maneuvering and prediction and FLYING, not just rolling tons of dice or negating tons of dice.

I guess I'm just downhearted because I've been helping a friend test the latest hotness, Fairship Rebels - which is Biggs, Lowwrick, Jess Pava, and Rex, with a game plan of "spread the damage that would hit Biggs out to as many other ships as possible so you keep your four ships alive while theirs die... or you go to time" - and it's just plain boring. Boring to fly against, boring to fly, it's all about beating on it until it cracks or catches you in Jess' arc multiple times.

Sabelkatten

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #711 on: 18 August 2017, 19:04:00 »
Well, the balance in X-wing sucked pretty much from the start set. It's not like X-wings have much chance against competently flown TIE fighters...

I'm starting to look at one of my favorite pastimes: coming up with house rule stuff to balance games. Starting with a couple of new titles for X-wing and E-wings to make them actually useful...

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #712 on: 18 August 2017, 19:38:44 »
What might also make it better is if there were actually other ways to play being endorsed by FFG, but no dice there.

Every large ship and box set has come with story driven scenarios.  The huge ships come with full campaigns.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #713 on: 18 August 2017, 20:56:36 »
honestly the problem is less the game (though there are some balance issues) and more with the fact that the playerbase tends to default to "lets have a tournament" when organizing events less often than storyline or casual events. and with that emphasis on tournaments comes min-maxing, competitive fan-lists, and elevation of 'the Meta' as something you always have to follow. less emphasis on "oh this looks fun" or "hey, this would be interesting" and more on "how can i beat the current popular list that exploits all the current balance issues"

one reason i have been avoiding tournaments (also why i get to play so rarely. :( )
« Last Edit: 18 August 2017, 21:05:09 by glitterboy2098 »

iamfanboy

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #714 on: 18 August 2017, 20:59:10 »
honestly the problem is less the game (though there are some balance issues) and more with the fact that the playerbase tends to default to "lets have a tournament" when organizing events less often than storyline or casual events. and with that emphasis on tournaments comes min-maxing, competitive fan-lists, and elevation of 'the Meta' as something you always have to follow.
And that comes from the top-down. If FFG organized formal rules for, say, the Kessel Kup/Mario Kart racing system and offered it as a valid tournament alternative, or if they issued an actual campaign system, or had alternate tournament scenarios rather than "Kill 'em all" like a version of the Escort Senator's Shuttle, then I'd have much fewer problems.

But that isn't the case.

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #715 on: 25 August 2017, 14:46:23 »
CDT Agent #319

glitterboy2098

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #716 on: 25 August 2017, 15:00:19 »
MC75, ISD-I Chimera, and Kom'rk's?

i guess we know what the third missing SKU for Xwing is now...

NeonKnight

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #717 on: 25 August 2017, 15:48:12 »
Armada Wave VII has been announced

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/8/25/the-grand-admiral-arrives/



OOooo...New 'Boarding Trooper' type card as Vader!

 [drool]
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glitterboy2098

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Re: X-Wing and Starwars fleet scale game?
« Reply #719 on: 25 August 2017, 17:23:31 »
actually talking of the X-wing game.. the currently announced wave skipped over 3 SKU's, indicating there are probably 3 products still to be announced. the Resistance A-wing and TIE Silencer from the upcoming film are a shoe-in, but debate over the third one has been heavy.

since Armada's fighters invariable end up as X-wing ships, i'd guess it'll be an Epic sized Kom'rk (it is way too big to be a standard large... the VCX-100 Ghost was pushing it already, and the kom'rk is even bigger), probably Scum faction.

 

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