Author Topic: Who killed Morgan?  (Read 29919 times)

Dread Moores

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #30 on: 19 April 2011, 01:28:23 »
They were caught, and involved themselves in a shoot out.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #31 on: 19 April 2011, 01:30:46 »
Precisely.

If Sun Tsu has someone whacked it's either going to be completely obvious because he's sending a message or it's going to be completely unidentifiable as a murder.  This was neither.
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Guardsman

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #32 on: 19 April 2011, 01:34:25 »
They were caught, and involved themselves in a shoot out.

Oh, it’s been a long time since I read the Twilight of the Clans. I thought the assassins were killed, without being identified?
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Dread Moores

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #33 on: 19 April 2011, 01:41:23 »
At least one of them has a pretty silly gunfight/witty banter session with Ariana.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #34 on: 19 April 2011, 01:46:21 »
Yeah, the only way I'd believe an assassin that incompetent was working for Sun Tsu was if he'd left behind some info that did a good job of implicating someone else.
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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #35 on: 19 April 2011, 01:49:19 »
Misdirection is an old staple of this particular game, and I’d imagine that Sun-Tzu would not want his team to survive, given the situation (on a DropShip, attached to a JumpShip, in the middle of nowhere).
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Dread Moores

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #36 on: 19 April 2011, 01:57:30 »
He has a banter session with the protagonist. That doesn't sound like misdirection to me. That sounds like not so strong writing.  :)

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #37 on: 19 April 2011, 02:00:10 »
It's really, really hard for a skilled person to pull off a believable job of looking unskilled with out actually messing up.  It's not just in character stuff that doesn't fit, the facts learned by being third-person omniscient don't finger Sun Tsu either.
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Maelwys

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #38 on: 19 April 2011, 02:13:02 »
The Mask has been known to fail, even spectacularly, before.

The only evidence they had against Lucas Penrose was that he was a "Blank" someone who didn't exist before joining the Order. And that he bolted when he was being brought in to have that little detail discussed. He doesn't actually ever admit to it either, though he does suggest that bombs are "crude."

There's no evidence that it was the WoB, and the only reason they're blamed in Prince of Havoc is because they're the only group that people think could slip an agent into ComStar.

Mind you, just a page or two earlier, Victor and all are discussing a group of Nekakami who managed to not only slip 1 agent into ComStar, but *4*. So much for the Word of Blake being the only group able to infiltrate ComStar.

So pretty much the only IC "proof" that the WoB was behind it can be ignored because the extended Superfriends are idiots.

The only OOC Proof is that in the ComStar Field Manual, the Precentor Martial of the WoB says "Not the Glengarry Black Label" with a small smile. Which is pretty much stretching it.

On the other hand, we know that pretty soon Sun Tzu would be retaking the St.Ives Compact. Having the Morgan as the head of the Capellan March would be alot worse than having his son or wife. We know that Sun Tzu's view of the Star League was "How much can I get out of this," meaning I can believe he was perfectly willing to get rid of Morgan, risking Serpent. After all, if Serpent fails, or takes longer, what has he lost? A regiment? On the other hand, he forces his opponents to dedicate more to the eradication of the Smoke Jaguars. And if the eradication fails, its not like it really affects him much. His realm isn't under attack by them.

Dread Moores

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #39 on: 19 April 2011, 02:58:38 »
I've since chalked it up to one of those things that will never be answered, as there was never a determination to pursue that thread any further. There's a lot that doesn't make sense about it...for anybody at all to do it.

Neufeld

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #40 on: 19 April 2011, 05:00:49 »
To throw in a really crazy suggestion: Clan Smoke Jaguar Watch.  :D

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Grunt213

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #41 on: 19 April 2011, 05:10:17 »
Interesting theory's. I'd put my money on Katie Steiner but wouldn't be surprised on the Wobbies. I can see why the Chancellor would do it, but I just don't see him ordering the hit though.
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abou

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #42 on: 19 April 2011, 05:44:58 »
I don't recall for sure (I do recall him using some special poison only available to Combine assassins, though), but even if that was true, WoB ROM has thoroughly infiltrated every other intelligence agency. If you're going to assassinate someone, you should probably disguise yourself in as many ways as possible.
I actually just finished reading the book myself.  The toxin used was a tetraodontoxin (or tetrodotoxin) available from different fish species on three worlds in both the Lyran Alliance and Draconis Combine.

When Gressman wrote the passages, I think he was trying to pull a slight of hand with mixed results of success.  We never really saw Penrose until Sword and Fire, but in The Hunters we meet the nekekami quite early, of which there is a team member very skilled with poisons.  Regardless, they don't seem to do much, but we do see Penrose agitating the other crew and goading them into talk of conspiracy theories.

I personally feel as there should have been more to this subplot and would have certainly made the books better.  Gressman isn't a bad writer, but he could have been more refined when it came to this point since there is a lot of downtime where it seems nothing happens.  A game of cat & mouse amongst the decks of The Invisible Truth involving DEST, Fox team, nekekami, and Penrose would have been a lot of fun.

Niopsian

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #43 on: 19 April 2011, 08:51:44 »
What about the mysterious JumpShip that was trailing the Serpent fleet? While I can buy into the idea that Sun Tzu would want  Morgan gone and might have slipped an agent into the Task Force, I can't see him sending a JumpShip to follow.

The Word of Blake, however, would be very interested in following a fleet headed to Huntress - especially since they weren't attendees at the Whitting Conference and might not have been able to acquire the route yet.


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Handofbane

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #44 on: 19 April 2011, 09:45:07 »
What about the mysterious JumpShip that was trailing the Serpent fleet? While I can buy into the idea that Sun Tzu would want  Morgan gone and might have slipped an agent into the Task Force, I can't see him sending a JumpShip to follow.

The Word of Blake, however, would be very interested in following a fleet headed to Huntress - especially since they weren't attendees at the Whitting Conference and might not have been able to acquire the route yet.
That may well be a reason for them *not* to be able to follow the fleet.  After all, how does a jumpship follow another, one week behind, without knowing the exact route planned for a year long trip?  Can't very well see the ships at their destinations via telescope from the previous jump location (light years, how do they work?), while they have made clear it's possible to guess the size/origin point of a jump coming into the system you are sitting at, the information on outbound jumps is far less clear, especially if you do manage to guess their target system and jump into the the opposite nadir/zenith point at the next system to have nothing to track before it fades, assuming we can even determine how long such a radiation burst from the jump itself would last (minutes?  hours?  days?).  Even then, what little info we have regarding "reading" jump fields implies it only suggests the ship sizes and approximate distance in light years of the other end - hit a system where you have more than one possible jump location by guessing wrong on the ship size and you can suddenly throw your tracking off by several weeks as you recharge, jump back, then find no more field remaining on the correct path.

While the Word would gain some benefit from attempting to follow or impede Serpent, without already knowing the planned route it would end up nearly impossible for them to follow the task force blindly.  So it very likely had to be someone at the conference or able to plant agents to gain that information early enough to get a ship or so free to trail it along the expected route.

Lore

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #45 on: 19 April 2011, 10:34:24 »
The Word of Blake, however, would be very interested in following a fleet headed to Huntress - especially since they weren't attendees at the Whitting Conference and might not have been able to acquire the route yet.

Considering that the Word of Blake was heavily invested in factionalism at the time, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for us to speculate that, perhaps, two or more sub-sects were involved in the entire plot. For example, the Toyamas being responsible for Morgan's assassination, while the True Believers were the sect shadowing the fleet.

Perhaps neither sub-sect knew the other was involved -- each being intent on advancing their own agendas. Or it was simply a circumstance of cross-purposes between sects.
« Last Edit: 19 April 2011, 10:36:22 by Lore »
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Maelwys

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #46 on: 19 April 2011, 14:23:01 »
Interesting theory's. I'd put my money on Katie Steiner but wouldn't be surprised on the Wobbies. I can see why the Chancellor would do it, but I just don't see him ordering the hit though.

Why not? He benefits heavily from it. A quite effective military leader is no longer going to be in control along of one of his borders, and it avenges the Capellan Confederation against a person that humiliated the CapCon during the 4th Succession War, and lead an attack against Sian itself.

Another point against it being the WoB. They had ComStar so heavily infiltrate at this point that setting up a fake background for the assassin would have been no problem. Heck, they could've used an assassin/ROM agent that wouldn't need a fake background, since they have people inside ComStar that are completely legit.

On the other hand, Penrose's background is exactly like the background of the Nekakami. A Blank. Able to be slipped into the fleet, but unable to be backstopped with a background. Which indicates a similar infiltration ability as the Nekekami, pointing to a Successor State.

Lore

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #47 on: 19 April 2011, 19:26:26 »
Why not? He benefits heavily from it. A quite effective military leader is no longer going to be in control along of one of his borders, and it avenges the Capellan Confederation against a person that humiliated the CapCon during the 4th Succession War, and lead an attack against Sian itself.

Which is why I think it's still probably unlikely. There's just too many fingers pointing the Chancellor's way.

I won't dismiss the likelihood, however, that Sun-Tzu wished a grisly fate for Morgan to occur sometime during the conflict.
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Grunt213

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #48 on: 19 April 2011, 20:46:49 »
Which is why I think it's still probably unlikely. There's just too many fingers pointing the Chancellor's way.

I won't dismiss the likelihood, however, that Sun-Tzu wished a grisly fate for Morgan to occur sometime during the conflict.
Agreed. I think he'd have someone whack Kai or Victor before Morgan, and if STL had anything to do with it it would not be such a nice quiet death as posion.  I mean he is Romano's son afterall...
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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #49 on: 19 April 2011, 21:52:52 »
Kai and Victor are too high profile. Morgan's high pofile, but not to the same extent as Archon Prince Victor Steiner-Davion or Prime Minister to be Kai Allard-Liao.
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Fallen_Raven

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #50 on: 19 April 2011, 22:06:16 »
With Kai fighting on Solaris he wouldn't be that hard to take out. Pay off one tech to rig a knee to go out in the mountain arena and bam, one less heir to the Compact. And if Victor was a high vaule target, what does that make Melissa? Nobody is beyond the reach of assasination, but it doesn't seem quite Sun-Tzu's style to kill someone when he can discredit them or leave them helpless.
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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #51 on: 19 April 2011, 22:14:26 »
I don't buy the Sun-Tzu theory either. There was no good reason for him to kill Morgan, relatively speaking. I personally think Kali did the deed, if only because her style is so erratic.

Dread Moores

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #52 on: 19 April 2011, 22:20:56 »
I don't buy the Sun-Tzu theory either. There was no good reason for him to kill Morgan, relatively speaking. I personally think Kali did the deed, if only because her style is so erratic.

That's a pretty interesting one. Not sure that's quite how I'd imagine the Thugees operating though, and I don't know that I see Kali hiring an outside team to do it.

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #53 on: 19 April 2011, 23:09:41 »
That's a pretty interesting one. Not sure that's quite how I'd imagine the Thugees operating though, and I don't know that I see Kali hiring an outside team to do it.

Kali has acted independently "for the best interests of her brother/and the Confederation" before. And all without Sun-Tzu's knowledge/approval.

Perhaps she thought this was another of those times, and sought to remove Morgan... seeing it as a "gift" for her brother.
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Grunt213

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #54 on: 20 April 2011, 01:10:45 »
Acting on her own to strengthen the CapCon and as a gift to Sunny Boy. I can really see Kali doing this. But, I think more likely that she'd have had some whackjob Thugee blow up whatever jump/dropship Morgan was on. And of course she'd take credit for it.
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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #55 on: 20 April 2011, 01:35:40 »
Unless Sun-Tzu discovered she had Morgan killed and covered it up before it became widely known.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #56 on: 20 April 2011, 02:14:21 »
If that were the case, you'd think he'd have been a little more aware of her tendencies prior to the gas attack.
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Lore

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #57 on: 20 April 2011, 02:24:45 »
Unless Sun-Tzu discovered she had Morgan killed and covered it up before it became widely known.

I suppose that would depend on whether Sun-Tzu wanted to still continue to play nice with the Star League II and House Hasek.

To keep things civil, I suppose he could turn Kali over to the SLDF for punishment... much like he did for her eventual Tribunal after the Black May attacks. This allows him to distance both himself and the Confederation from Morgan's murder, and "claim" that Kali was acting on her own and without his approval.

...

But that's hardly a satisfying alternative, as we've seen too much of that already. An unexpected twist would be for Sun-Tzu to accept what Kali had done, put his official stamp on it, and deal with the consequences, if any.
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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #58 on: 20 April 2011, 03:03:30 »
Perhaps she thought this was another of those times, and sought to remove Morgan... seeing it as a "gift" for her brother.

Did she leave the dead body on the front step? That's how she usually shows something is a gift.


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Lore

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #59 on: 20 April 2011, 03:12:38 »
There's a rumour floating around that says Kali wanted to leave it in a flaming bag on the front doorstep...
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