MotW: Celerity

[SCC]

In regards to my comment about the Ice Hellions, if I asked you who do you think would develop the fastest unit in the game would your response be them or C*?

[mbear]

You know I haven't seen a Celery config that uses a Booby Trap. I was rereading those rules for another unit and they're scary. A drone Cellary with a Booby Trap would inflict 240 points of damage to any unit in the same hex, 120 points to anything 1 hex away, 60 points to anything 2 hexes away, and 30 to anything 3 hexes away. And it's an area effect blast, like artillery.

So now I think the Republic is going to use some of these puppies as MICLICs or "ground based cruise missiles" against fortifications. Hell, could you imagine one of them hitting an ammo or fuel depot? *shudder*

[Weirdo]

In theory, even a spiked Celebrity might come back after a fight. You put a booby trap on something you know it's a one-shot, and will probably try to make it cheaper than that...

[Paul]

In theory, even a spiked Celebrity might come back after a fight. You put a booby trap on something you know it's a one-shot, and will probably try to make it cheaper than that...

Plus it's nice to "line" up a 30+ hex charge on the rear armor of some 'Mech, core it, and basically BAMF in its collapsing remains. Managed this on a couple of Mediums and Heavies, haven't tried it on Assaults as I suspect it might survive.

Paul

[mbear]

In theory, even a spiked Celebrity might come back after a fight. You put a booby trap on something you know it's a one-shot, and will probably try to make it cheaper than that...

Yes, but when it absolutely positively has to be destroyed there's nothing better.  O0

[Firesprocket]

You know I haven't seen a Celery config that uses a Booby Trap.

I once took a look at it wondering why there wasn't a version with a booby trap and I believe it boils down to a lack of eligible crit space to mount the device.

[sadlerbw]

I know C-Bills prices aren't exactly an accurate metric, but if you can afford to throw away XXL Engines and XL Gyros as bombs, you be seriously space-rich. At that point, you have to ask yourself why you aren't just using an ACTUAL cruise missile...because those exist in the Dark Age as well. Besides, the spiked version does tend to survive one or two hits, so you could theoretically bring it back after a charge and not have to write the whole mech off.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The main issue with deploying cruise missiles is how heavy and rare the launch platforms for them are.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Any chance you could shoehorn a booby trap into the spiked version?  Slam into them, then explode!

[sadlerbw]

You would have to peel something else off. A Booby Trap on a Celerity would weight 1.5T, so something would have to go. Unless I'm reading something wrong in TacOps, it only takes 1 crit slot. If you drop the mech down to only one point of armor in every location you could loose 1T, but to free up 1.5 you would either need no armor at all, or you have to drop another piece of equipment. I guess you could ditch the spikes, as you aren't aren't really looking to actually charge anyone with that bomb on board.

[mbear]

I know C-Bills prices aren't exactly an accurate metric, but if you can afford to throw away XXL Engines and XL Gyros as bombs, you be seriously space-rich. At that point, you have to ask yourself why you aren't just using an ACTUAL cruise missile...because those exist in the Dark Age as well.

Cruise missiles can scatter. Maybe not enough to matter, but still.
Cruise missiles max out at 150 points of damage. Celebretree with Booby trap inflicts 240 points damage.

[sadlerbw]

Cruise missiles can scatter. Maybe not enough to matter...

Hey, that rhymes!

Annoyingly the booby trap is only 240 in the trapped units hex. So, unless you use the advanced mech-hugs* rule to get into the same hex, or stand on top of some infantry or vehicles, you don't get 240. Units in the adjacent hex would only take 120 damage. I say 'only', but that is the same damage as the biggest cruise missile. I admit scatter happens, so that is a disadvantage. However, the Cruise Missile is slightly faster than the Celerity so that is nice. A Cruise Missile moves at about 5 map sheets per turn. A celerity 05-X at full speed moves 40 hexes, which is about 2.5 map sheets assuming clear, flat terrain...which is actually kind of frightening.

Anyway, there are probably other mechs that would give you a better bang for your buck (Ha!) than the Celerity. It may ONLY move 10/15, but the Scarabus has a 300XL engine in it, or you could rig up an intro-tech Spider with it's standard 240 for the same punch if you can stand to only move 8/12/8. The Cicada isn't bad either with its low-tech components and 320 engine. Of course, the king of stuff to blow up is probably the original Charger. It has that massive standard 400 engine which gives you the best damage you can get outside of a superheavy (which I guess you can booby-trap, but I'm not really sure). It's also dirt cheap, using nothing even remotely exotic, and if you drop the small lasers to fit the booby trap, it is about as minimal as you can get in terms of equipment you are wasting by blowing it up.

If you are only looking at BV the Celerity is, I must admit, a pretty inexpensive choice. Even the Ostscout K, the one with nothing but a TAG on it, is still twice the BV of an 05-X Celerity. You can get three little bomb-doggies and have BV change left over for the cost of the base model Charger. I know C-Bills are a broken/irrelevant metric in the game, but it still rubs me the wrong way to purposefully blow up all that cutting-edge tech! You want to blow up a bunch of intro-tech Spiders or Chargers, and I'll bring the marshmallows to roast in the flames of their wreckage, but don't blow up that lovely XXL engine!

* NOTE: There is no mech-hugging advanced rule...at least, not an OFFICIAL one!

[Wrangler]

Did u guys count advance rules in equations? I apologize if i missed it being mentioned.  Has sprint rules for movement been counted? I know mech vulnerable to enemy fire but it would be hauling the mail faster.

[sadlerbw]

I had not thought about that, mostly because you can't make voluntary attacks when you sprint, so Charging was out. I guess you could argue that a booby trap is not actually an 'attack' in the sense the rule means so you could still sprint and trigger it, but that seems debatable. I might argue that it is a voluntary attack though, since you are actively triggering the booby trap. Still, if you just wanted to cover ground, and are willing to make two PSR's with a +2 modifier, you can fire up the Supercharger and MASC on the 05-X, which would let it move 72 hexes! Can't move backwards or enter any water, but that would actually make it just a wee bit FASTER than the cruise missile!

Now, you can't make a voluntary attack, but you can certainly slip on pavement and make an accidental charge. Not the best probability of landing a hit, but if you do it's going to be for some pretty hefty damage!

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

At that speed, you ought to just be able to run across the surface of the water like a basilisk.

[SCC]

A celerity 05-X at full speed moves 40 hexes, which is about 2.5 map sheets assuming clear, flat terrain...which is actually kind of frightening.

A VTOL with Jet Booster can move that same amount but because of VTOL movement rules EVERYTHING is clear terrain, the only downside is it has to be in a straight line, of course now you no longer need to worry about the engine blowing up or muscle spams killing you're rise.

[UnLimiTeD]

I thought the engine blowing up was the entire point of this discussion?

[mbear]

On a different note, I was looking through XTRO:Royal Fantasy and ran across another Celerity variant.

CLR-03OMM Celerity “Rajah” - 15 tons, Endo Steel chassis, 120-rated standard engine. Clan double heat sinks, XL Gyro, 3 ton drone cockpit, 1.5 tons of Impact Resistant Armor. Weaponry is limited to twin Clan-spec ER Small Lasers and spikes along head, right and left torso.

The smaller standard engine means it only moves 8/12, but that's more than enough to run around an arena.

[SCC]

You know, given that the RoTS variants are kamikaze's what does that say about their supply of 'Mechs? Do they have so many that they can afford to expend them in suicide attacks? Or are they desperate (And stupid enough) to believe that this tactics can work?

[Weirdo]

I don't think the kamikaze configs are for standard operations. My assumption is that RotS planners don't intend to throw away Celebrities willy-nilly, but they do accept that drones are inherently more disposable than manned units. I'm thinking that the pods for those configs aren't meant to be normally used, but are stored for emergency situations.

[Darkwing]

To add to what Weirdo said, I believe some of those configurations probably arose out of desperate times and desperate measures. The Japanese did not open World War 2 with kamikaze attacks and suicide charges. It was when the war turned against them that that became common. As the Prefectures crumbled, and forces were pushed up against the  Fortress wall, with no chance of escape or resupply, I believe they would look at those tactics. If Daoshen Liao is coming for my planet, he is getting it, one drone at a time. Of course, with the prominent use of ECM systems in the CapCon, it's probably not the best use. Now the Falcons on the other hand......

[Kidd]

A little more comparably, there was also the "Rammkommando Elbe", a German experiment in ramming bombers with armoured fighters - not with suicidal intention in mind.

There's something to be said for a 15-ton projectile that can smash a target of choice from well outside the range of any standard weapon in the game. What would the numbers be for trying to target a ramming Celerity? What would be its chances of success?

[grimlock1]

To add to what Weirdo said, I believe some of those configurations probably arose out of desperate times and desperate measures. The Japanese did not open World War 2 with kamikaze attacks and suicide charges. It was when the war turned against them that that became common. As the Prefectures crumbled, and forces were pushed up against the  Fortress wall, with no chance of escape or resupply, I believe they would look at those tactics. If Daoshen Liao is coming for my planet, he is getting it, one drone at a time. Of course, with the prominent use of ECM systems in the CapCon, it's probably not the best use. Now the Falcons on the other hand......

A celerity would loose contact, but it could have been moving as much as 400 kph, 05-X!  I'm guessing it's treated like an automatically failed PSR under skidding rules.  That could still take out someones legs.