Author Topic: If you could only have one class of WarShip...  (Read 14536 times)

Arkansas Warrior

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If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« on: 24 April 2017, 15:58:45 »
...what would it be?  Let's say your faction has just a shipyard capable of producing one type of WarShip.  You can choose any WarShip available in the era, but let's say you can only build 250 kilotons of ship per year, so if you're building McKennas, you're going to be heavily outnumbered by a neighbor who's building Foxes.




To complicate things a little more, let's break it up into three eras:
Succession Wars-Somehow, against all odds, you've miraculously preserved one shipyard.
Clans-You're building up your Touman right around the time of REVIVAL.
Blackout-The HPGs have just gone dark and you have decided your faction needs WarShips to see you through these uncertain times.




What do you build your fleet out of, and why?

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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #1 on: 24 April 2017, 18:45:27 »
Canon ships only, I'm guessing?
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #2 on: 24 April 2017, 19:14:30 »
Please.
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RunandFindOut

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #3 on: 24 April 2017, 19:32:48 »
Succession Wars-Pinto (given my options I'd shave some cargo for armor)
Clan Invasion-Fox class (not ideal but best available at time.)
Blackout-Don't really have a clue as I tend not to pay attention to the setting past the Jihad and don't really like the Jihad either.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #4 on: 24 April 2017, 19:47:04 »
Succession Wars: New Syrtis - Enough Aerospace Fighters to swarm most other ships I'll expect to encounter and enough weapons of her own to throw down if required.

Clan Invasion: York - again the aerofighters give options over other designs, light weight means I'll have plenty of them for escorting the fleet in.

Dark Age: Avalon it's a backwards flying brick with capital missiles.  Less fighters than I'd ideally want but plenty DropShip collars.  I'd load up with a mix of carriers and pocket warships with AMS to give defence screen and additional attack.

(I was tempted to say Lola III for all three answers and just spam them with long range fire but the ship really needs more armour and AMS)
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #5 on: 24 April 2017, 22:53:33 »
Part of me wants to say Tracker or Bonaventure due to my natural levels of snark.

That said, Tracker has the added bonus of docking collars it can use for fighter carriers, Pocket WarShips or civvie transports if pretending to be a Merchant.  At two a year, you could crank them out like mad.

Despite its low cargo fraction, the Nightwing is high on the list, thanks to its firepower being so high for such a small package.

Foxes seem perfect for this challenge, or maybe vice versa. Too obvious, and already mentioned.

Barons have big naval laser arrays that help with ranged fire, and potentially murdering fighters. Armor is thin, and you only get one every two years.

In the end, at 720 kilotons, and one per three years, I'd probably go with the Black Lion I. Maybe not the best choice, but I designed if, so I have a big soft spot for it. :)
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Jellico

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #6 on: 25 April 2017, 00:00:59 »
Part of me wants to say Tracker or Bonaventure due to my natural levels of snark.

That said, Tracker has the added bonus of docking collars it can use for fighter carriers, Pocket WarShips or civvie transports if pretending to be a Merchant.  At two a year, you could crank them out like mad.

40 Bug-Eyes a year. They don't make DropShips that fast.

Heck if I was spamming anything in the lead up to Revival it would be Odysseys. LF batteried JumpShip with four collars? Catch me if you can Spheroid scum. That's serious strategic mobility.

Anyway.
Succession Wars? Vincent. Orbital bombardment time. Heck, who am I kidding. I am in the Homeworlds. Yorks. They are a great ship in a Trial environment.
Revival? Potemkins. Sure Foxes give you better collars per year, but you don't get the cargo capacity.
Black Out? I wouldn't touch a WarShip with a 20ft pole. The militaries are so run down you need everything else first. Then...

Cryhavok101

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #7 on: 25 April 2017, 01:10:37 »
Succession Wars-"The Time of Atrocities as Party Favors"- M-5 Caspar Drone
Clan Invasion-Aegis or Liberator
Blackout-Conqueror (or Kimagure)

snewsom2997

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #8 on: 25 April 2017, 08:51:51 »
I would lean more towards the Commonwealth, 6 hardpoints, for PWS and ASF Carrier.

If I am spamming the field, go Fredesa/Titan combo.

Weirdo

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #9 on: 25 April 2017, 09:11:40 »
Kirishima. Use my WarShips to control the spaceways, and DropShips can handle any other jobs.
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vidar

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #10 on: 25 April 2017, 15:44:23 »
Newgrange- if I am limited to one class I would focus on a job impossible to do with smaller vessels.  And the ability to fix all that space based infrastructure would be invaluable.

snewsom2997

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #11 on: 25 April 2017, 16:04:07 »
Newgrange- if I am limited to one class I would focus on a job impossible to do with smaller vessels.  And the ability to fix all that space based infrastructure would be invaluable.

So you will be building one of these every 9 years, awfully tempting target, to do a lot of damage, from an enemies perspective. Without a century of peace you wouldn't have enough time to build enough to do anything. OP Stated production capacity of 250Kt per year.

sadlerbw

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #12 on: 25 April 2017, 16:19:34 »
Tough one.

Succession Wars: I would like something like the Liberator or the Tharkad. They really are do-it-all type ships with ample fighter bays and dropship collars, plus tough armor and enough firepower to hurt just about anything else out there. They both even have NPPC or NL bays that can do a reasonable job at bracket fire. The Tharkad wins on heat management, but the Liberator has that nice armor on the nose and aft. In fact, the only problem with them is their mass. The restriction of a quarter-million tons of ship per year really hurts. That just isn't much tonnage, so we are looking at one of these ships every four years. If it was one every two years, I might still go for them, but only producing three ships in a decade is going to leave me spread pretty thin. This is, honestly, a problem in all of your timeframes.

Being capped at 250k tons per year, I might actually look at the Davion Block II. At 520K tons, I'm pretty sure I could give my workers some overtime pay and squeeze one out every two years. It doesn't quite have the armor of a York, or it's larger fighter compliment, but it is 80K tons lighter, and has much better heat management at the same thrust and dropship capacity.

Clans circa REVIVAL:
Assuming I know, from the dragoons, that I won't be facing any serious warship threat, I'm looking for dropship collars, fighter bays, and cargo space. I want to move large volumes of stuff in an armored shell rather than trying to field something to fight other warships. For that job, you just can't beat the Potemkin. Sure they take something like six years to build one with the restrictions mentioned, but nothing else provides as many collars-per-ton, and the cargo space is competitive with just about anything else as well. For revival, I want an up-armored container ship, and the Potemkin is it!

Dark Age:
Leviathan III. It will take me a decade to build one, but once I do I've got what is, quite possibly, the most broken, OP warship the game has ever seen...in canon. I mean, what are you going to do instead? Build two Mjolnirs or Texas's? I'd gladly take a two-on-one fight with either of those. Three Aegis? Still have you beat on fighters and dropships, and I'll put my armor against three of those.  Corvette spam? For the mass of a Lev3, you could build 10 Foxes. That is 120 fighters, 20 small craft, and 50 dropship collars. Pretty impressive, but my one ship has 20 collars, 60 fighters, and 10 small craft, so it's not as big of an advantage as you would like. Plus more armor than all your warships combined and the range, firepower, and cooling capacity to start dropping your Foxes and droppers at long range. Sorry, but nothing is OP like the Leviathan III.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #13 on: 25 April 2017, 16:43:00 »
40 Bug-Eyes a year. They don't make DropShips that fast.

Thought occurred to me, but there is so little useful you could do with them outside surveillance without modifying them.
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Cryhavok101

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #14 on: 25 April 2017, 16:56:37 »
Thought occurred to me, but there is so little useful you could do with them outside surveillance without modifying them.

K-F Bombs waiting to take out everyone else's warships.

Daryk

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #15 on: 25 April 2017, 17:46:54 »
Thought occurred to me, but there is so little useful you could do with them outside surveillance without modifying them.
Surveillance is priceless in all three of the OP's time frames.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #16 on: 25 April 2017, 18:30:20 »
Yeah, but unless you have something that can oppose everyone else's fleets, surveillance is all you're doing.
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Daryk

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #17 on: 25 April 2017, 18:50:06 »
None of their fleets are going to be big enough to cover every target, and that much surveillance will let you raid with impunity.

vidar

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #18 on: 25 April 2017, 19:31:07 »
So you will be building one of these every 9 years, awfully tempting target, to do a lot of damage, from an enemies perspective. Without a century of peace you wouldn't have enough time to build enough to do anything. OP Stated production capacity of 250Kt per year.
Your look at them as combat units, not as the support units of a vast dropship fleet because they can be used to upkeep all those infrastructure parts that allow large fleets.

Cryhavok101

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #19 on: 25 April 2017, 23:36:38 »
I was sorely tempted to pick faslanes and newgaranges for the support factor.

David CGB

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #20 on: 25 April 2017, 23:43:38 »
Luxor please
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sadlerbw

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #21 on: 26 April 2017, 14:37:14 »
None of their fleets are going to be big enough to cover every target, and that much surveillance will let you raid with impunity.

I don't know about 'impunity'. What are you going to do when your neighbor shows up in orbit over your capital with a couple Warships and asks for all his stuff back...plus all your stuff as well.

Cryhavok101

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #22 on: 26 April 2017, 14:44:15 »
I don't know about 'impunity'. What are you going to do when your neighbor shows up in orbit over your capital with a couple Warships and asks for all his stuff back...plus all your stuff as well.

Human wave them with marines and battletaxis.

sadlerbw

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #23 on: 26 April 2017, 16:31:26 »
Human wave them with marines and battletaxis.

If you are the Capellan Confederation, sure. Otherwise, I sure hope you have a large supply of VERY patriotic volunteers because it might be a wee bit difficult to get folks to sign up for that mission. There are going to be some horrific casualty rates in that fight. The NL-42 doesn't have the fuel to meet them on the way in, so you have to wait till they make it to the planet, or pretty close to it. So, you kinda need waves and waves for each important system and possibly each important planet.

That is going to require some serious numbers of Battle Taxis and marines. Even if I give you the personnel for free, how many Battle Taxis do you need to swarm a battleship? 20? 50? 100? 20 seems low, so lets call it 50. That is 10k tons of battle taxis to defend one planet. If you want to defend 10 planets, we are up to 100k tons of small craft. At what point does building all those small craft affect your ability to put out 250k tons of warships a year? I know game-wise swarm tactics work, but I dislike any counter that boils down to, "They simply can't kill us fast enough." That's just personal preference though, and I admit it.

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #24 on: 26 April 2017, 16:34:06 »
You. I like you. O0
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Cryhavok101

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #25 on: 26 April 2017, 16:58:43 »
I knew I should have put an emoji on that post, the sarcasm just didn't show enough lol.

Daryk

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #26 on: 26 April 2017, 17:33:37 »
Sarcasm or no, you have a point.  There are threads upon threads that talk about how bad the canon WarShips are, and how easy it is take them down with PWS, small craft and fighters.  Plus, with all that surveillance, you'll see them coming and be able to prepare a proper welcoming committee.  Knowing more than your enemy is more than half the battle.

Cryhavok101

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #27 on: 26 April 2017, 18:29:12 »
Sarcasm or no, you have a point.  There are threads upon threads that talk about how bad the canon WarShips are, and how easy it is take them down with PWS, small craft and fighters.  Plus, with all that surveillance, you'll see them coming and be able to prepare a proper welcoming committee.  Knowing more than your enemy is more than half the battle.

Well to argue against my own human wave idea, another important part of the battle is having a populace that will allow you to sacrifice them by the thousands to take down one enemy ship. Be careful not to let your populace decide it might be better for them if the other guy won.

Daryk

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #28 on: 26 April 2017, 18:39:24 »
Well, referencing those other threads, it doesn't have to be thousands or even hundreds of casualties.  Fighter swarms with the appropriate external stores could easily keep your body count in the tens...

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: If you could only have one class of WarShip...
« Reply #29 on: 26 April 2017, 19:45:17 »
Seriously, though, a lot of this is predicated on what your assault DropShip/PWS, JumpShip and fighter production looks like.  If I can build a fabulous PWS and haul it around at reasonable rates, it takes some of the heat off your WarShip production, allowing you to focus on fewer, better ships. If that's similarly limited, smaller WarShips you can produce faster for better coverage is important.

This also, obviously, varies by how much territory you have to defend.

WarShips are complicated beasts. ;D
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