Author Topic: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)  (Read 19171 times)

wantec

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‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs (Part 1)


I must be a glutton for punishment or something, because today’s colossal-sized ‘Mech of the Week article began as one super-sized article covering 3 ‘Mechs and an OmniMech. Why so many in a single article? Well, they’re a bit unique, kind of like the QuadVees. The 3 ‘Mechs each only have a single variant (one does have a variant in TRO3150’s New Tech, New Upgrades, but there’s no record sheet). Despite my desire to keep it all in one colossal, text-heavy, over-sized MotW, I have split it in two. Today’s Part 1 will cover all the current biped Superheavy ‘Mechs.

To start with, a little summary of the unique differences of Superheavy ‘Mechs. This won’t cover every little difference, but enough to allow us to better judge the design and performance of these beasts. Superheavies can be constructed as IndustrialMechs or BattleMechs, and Superheavy BattleMechs can be constructed as Omnis, but Superheavy IndustrialMechs cannot. Among those you can find bipeds, tripods, and quads. Bigger than standard ‘Mechs, Superheavies stand 3 levels tall, only receiving partial cover from hills or buildings 2 levels tall.

Movement-wise, Superheavies move like normal ‘Mechs, with a few exceptions. When it comes to stacking limits, only infantry may occupy the same hex. Even friendly ‘Mechs and vehicles cannot move through a hex occupied by a Superheavy ‘Mech, they must move around it. However, Superheavies have an easier time moving through woods, jungle, rough, rubble, and building hexes, subtracting 1 from the MP cost to move through the hex. Despite the larger size, Superheavies using the ‘Mechanized infantry & ProtoMechs rules cannot carry any more units than a standard ‘Mech.

In combat, Superheavies tend to suffer more drawbacks than benefits. Enemy attacks have a -1 to-hit against Superheavies, and anti-‘Mech attacks by infantry receive a -2 to-hit. A physical attack by a Superheavy ‘Mech has a +1 to-hit penalty due to the cumbersome nature. When a Superheavy suffers a critical hit everything in the slot rolled is hit and it only counts as a single hit.

That last rule may sound strange, but a benefit of Superheavy ‘Mechs is that the critical slots hold two crits instead of just one. Two single-crit items can be placed in the same slot, but only ones of the same type. For example, two Medium Lasers can be placed in a single crit slot, but a Medium and a Small cannot. If an item requires an odd number of critical slots, say 3 for an IS Double Heat Sink, that extra space is lost. For example, a pair of IS Double Heat sinks occupy 4 Superheavy critical slots, not 3. Actuators, the gyro, and head components occupy twice as many slots for a Superheavy as for a standard ‘Mech, but it works out to the same number on a record sheet.

Internal structure increases as expected, but the big difference is the Head. On all Superheavy ‘Mechs the Head has 4 points of structure, meaning it can have a max of 12 points of armor. It may not seem like much, but it reduces the list of head-capping weapons down to weapons dealing 16 points or more: 20-class autocannons, Thunderbolt 20s, Heavy Large Lasers, Heavy Gauss rounds at short or medium range, Improved Heavy Gauss Rifles, Heavy PPCs with capacitors, and Clan ERPPCs with capacitors. With standard ‘Mechs a 10-point hit would generate a crit chance, but on Superheavy ‘Mechs that no longer happens.

A few more construction bits. While Superheavies can only be constructed of Inner Sphere tech base, there are examples using Clan weapons. For the structure, the options are standard, Endo-Steel or Endo-Composite, all IS versions. The engine can be any type, as long as the engine is a fusion type. Armor can be any type, but Stealth Armor (along with Chameleon LPS, Null-Sig, and Void-Sig have no benefit on a Superheavy. Modular Armor may not be used, nor can armored components. No type of jump jet, jump booster, or UMU can be installed. Likewise, MASC, TSM, AES, and Superchargers are not allowed. Face it, Superheavies are slow and ground-bound unless they get shoved off a cliff.

I haven’t mentioned tripod benefits/penalties, but those will come later in Part 2. Now on to the ‘Mechs. By the way those are the Omega SHP-X4 and Orca OC-1X for today’s article and the Poseidon PSD-V2, and the Ares Superheavy OmniMech for Part 2.



First up, the Omega SHP-X4


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Before I continue, I want to point back to a previous MotW on the Omega written by Moonsword http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=25142.0 It’s a good article, but since I was planning on covering the rest of the Superheavies, I wanted to take my own look at the Omega.


The Omega was developed on Terra sometime during the Jihad. The design was still in the prototype testing phase when Stone’s Coalition retook Terra. Though the almost 30 prototypes were destroyed in the fighting and the factory itself was destroyed, elements of what would become the Republic recovered enough technical data to build their own Superheavy ‘Mechs later on.

The 150-ton Omega was surely a shock to the units that first encountered it. Much like when their parents first encountered the Clans, these warriors faced down something that looked like what they knew, but was harder to face. It absorbed more weapons fire and carried more of its own weapons than conventional wisdom thought possible. Fortunately for those warriors the numbers of Omegas in the field was far less than the Clan forces in the Invasion.

Moving a plodding 2/3 speed, the Omegas were used as defensive units around a few key installations. A 300 XL engine provides power, saving tonnage at the same time. Likewise an Endo Steel structure saves more tonnage. The standard armor shell weighs in at 27 tons, good enough for 432 points, more than any ‘Mech not mounting hardened armor. This works out to 94% coverage in a beefy pattern:
12
44/45(19)/60(20)/45(19)/44
62/62

The Omega has lots of armor, but it saved weight on structure and speed, that must mean there’s lots of weapons. And it does, 88.5 tons of weapons, ammo, and equipment. A trio of Gauss Rifles are mounted, one to each torso location, with 80 rounds of ammo to share. That’s the same as a Thunder Hawk’s firepower, but wait, there’s more. Each arm carries an LB 10-X with two tons of ammo. Each arm and torso location is protected by CASE II to minimize the impact of critical hits and ammo explosions. If you’ve done the math so far, stop it! Yes there’s still 2.5 tons left, that was used for a C3i computer, allowing a spotter to provide short-range targeting data for this slow beastie.

The fluff in Jihad Reckoning says that the Omegas kept allied forces mired in fighting. I can see that, particularly as part of a C3i-connected Level II an Omega will dish out the pain and not go down easily. The only real weakness, other than a lack of speed, is the Omega only has a base 10 single heat sinks. That’s more than enough for its weapon fire and movement, but infernos and plasma weapons can quickly overwhelm it.

There is a variant, the Omega SHP-5R. During the Orca development project, some partially built Omegas were completed, removing the Endo Steel structure and the Gauss Rifles in favor of Heavy PPCs. These Republic Omegas were considered inferior to the Blakist versions.

Unfortunately, we don’t have a record sheet yet, or more of a description. If we swap Gauss for PPC at a 1-1 ratio, there’s 10 tons left over after the structure swap and Gauss ammo removal. The CASE II in the torsos can be removed at this point, but it’s not mentioned so who knows if it’s there or not. Even if the CASE II is removed and put into heat sinks, that’s still 20 or 23 single heat sinks. With a poor reputation and no mention of a heat sink swap, I would be surprised if the record sheet shows a swap to double heat sinks.

The Omega isn’t a great all-around unit, but as a defensive unit in a Level II as it was designed, I think it’s superb. Pull a Gandalf, park it where the enemy is trying to go and shout “YOU SHALL NOT PASS!”. With spotting data from the rest of the Level II to improve its to-hit numbers you have plenty of ammo to fire till your armor is finally chipped away. In an offensive role, the Omega will struggle. Just it’s slow speed alone will hurt, requiring it to run most of the time just to get to the edge of the battle. The key weakness of the Omega is its single heat sinks. If hit by external heat sources, it will quickly overheat, even if it stands still and does nothing.





Next is, the Orca OC-1X


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MUL Link - http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7356/orca-oc-1x

Topping the scales at the limit of 200 tons. Technically this ‘Mech also has variants, although those appeared as part of two different April Fools products. The first product was TRO: Project Omega, released in 2003 I think. The variant with stats appears to use standard construction rules, but what would become Superheavy components and armor levels. Two other variants were briefly described in the product, but not clearly enough to construct them. The second product was Third League Turning Points: Free Taiw…St. Ives released in 2012. Using “Third Generation” components and weapons, the Orca ORC-7D is given a record sheet. It appears to use Superheavy construction rules (which had been published at the time). Also listed in the product, but not described or given a record sheet is a (presumably) older model Orca ORC-1A.

Hinted at, taunted, & teased for a long time, the Orca became an “official” ‘Mech with the release of XTRO: Republic II. In the years after the formation of the Republic, the destroyed Omega production was partial rebuilt, enough to test out a Superheavy ‘Mech construction techniques and design. Built by hand, only a few test models of the Orca were reportedly built.

Maintaining the Omega’s plodding speed, the Orca uses a 400 XL engine to save tonnage. Much of that saved tonnage was spent on the standard internal structure. With the orbital facility destroyed Republic engineers were unable to duplicate the Omega’s Endo Steel structure. Armor coverage was increased in weight and percentage over the Omega, going up to 576 points or 96% coverage:
12
61/61(20)/90(30)/61(20)/61
80/80

The weapons package is a bit of a hodge-podge, but I think it works for such a slow, big target. It also happens to match the TRO: Project Omega April Fools stats almost exactly. Long range weapons consist of a pair of ERPPCs, an ER Large Laser, a Gauss Rifle, and a LRM20 rack. A Small X-Pulse Laser and SRM6 rack are the sole short range weapons along with a Guardian ECM. The right arm houses a Sniper Artillery Cannon for medium-range and area-effect shots. CASE II in each side torso limits the damage of ammo explosions or Gauss Rifle destruction. A total of 19 double heat sinks work to cool this potential 68 heat points of this savage beast.

While the Omega was clearly designed to work in Blakist formations, with spotters for targeting data and other units to provide cover, the Orca seems to be transitioning towards lone-‘Mech operations. The Gauss, PPCs, ER Large Laser and LRMs provide a heavy dose of firepower (and heat) on their own. But the choices of the rest of the weapons show experimenting in working solo. The Small X-Pulse and SRMs (with the right ammo) can work to ward off enemy infantry and battle armor. And the Artillery Cannon can flatten said units if it hits where it aims.

Overall, I think the Orca was a good step in the right direction, it gives the pilot plenty of weapons to choose from to defend itself or take on the enemy. The use of an XL engine was a good choice, even an IS-tech one. Looking back at that armor, it carries more on its side torsos than many 100-toners carry on their center, so cracking that shell will be tough enough. Using it, I would tape a brick to the gas pedal, just to get to the battle on time, or become a defensive unit. While it doesn’t need to be as much of a defense-only unit as the Omega, it’s still gonna have trouble crossing the battlefield to get to the fight.




Superheavies are like ‘Mechs in many ways, but they bring new considerations and challenges different from normal ‘Mechs. I’ve seen it pointed out in other threads, learning from game experience, that infantry and battle armor are the bane of the Superheavy ‘Mech. At 2/3 and sometimes even 3/5 speeds the big boys can’t always get away from the squishies. This makes them vulnerable to leg and swarm attacks, which are easier against Superheavies. (a -2 to-hit modifier). For a Superheavy, especially the slow ones, covering your legs, or having a buddy do it is imperative.

When it comes to strategic gameplay, or even some TW-scale scenarios, the size of Superheavies must be considered. The standard ‘Mech bay on a DropShip is only designed for ‘Mechs up to 100 tons. These bays allow for efficient repairs, maintenance, and deployment such as quickly exiting a landed DropShip or hot-dropping ‘Mechs into combat. Currently, there are no ‘Mech bays that can handle Superheavies. Instead, they must be loaded and handled as bulk cargo. The rules in Interstellar Operations specifically mention no combat drops, but there are likely penalties (or no bonuses) for repair work, longer times to deploy once a DropShip lands, etc.

The only DropShip mentioned to work with Superheavies of any kind was the Duat from TRO 3145 – Republic. The Duat was designed for the reformed Comguards, featuring 6 normal ‘Mech bays, a bay for 6x 6-trooper battle armor squads, a foot infantry bay, and a cargo hold capable of holding 678 tons of cargo. When the RAF adopted it into service the cargo bay was redesigned to 6 smaller 220 ton cargo bays with a 7th bay holding the rest of the cargo. These smaller bays are what the RAF units used as Superheavy bays for 6 Poseidons or Ares Superheavy Tripods.

At all but the largest scales, a Superheavy would take additional time to deploy from any DropShip and enter the battle. This combined with their generally slow speed would have an impact on planning and operations. Stereotypical Lyran Wall-of-Steel commanders shouldn’t have much trouble incorporating Superheavies into their commands, but many others likely will.
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Caedis Animus

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #1 on: 23 June 2017, 08:11:23 »
With infantry being such a problem, I'm surprised that none of the Superheavies save the Ares mounted A-Pods, or that none mounted B-Pods. Then again, they are built in a way that seems to focus on group tactics, so maybe they are expected to have a buddy burn off the infantry or keep them at bay.

Having an Orca or Omega with a Scarecrow as a guardian angel would be a scary combo for any infantry trying to rush the big guy.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #2 on: 23 June 2017, 08:20:02 »
Wantec do biped superheavy 'Mechs have multiple crew members?

With infantry being such a problem, I'm surprised that none of the Superheavies save the Ares mounted A-Pods, or that none mounted B-Pods. Then again, they are built in a way that seems to focus on group tactics, so maybe they are expected to have a buddy burn off the infantry or keep them at bay.

Having an Orca or Omega with a Scarecrow as a guardian angel would be a scary combo for any infantry trying to rush the big guy.

It makes sense to me. The Ares is the 3rd generation of superheavies produced by the Republic. They probably knew from fighting the Omega (1st gen superheavy) that infantry was going to be a problem, but didn't figure out how to solve it with the Orca (their first home grown superheavy ["Can we even build a superheavy at all?"], 2nd generation). Then with the Ares (3rd generation, first Republic production model) they figured out the anti-infantry aspect.

But I agree an Omega with a Scarecrow or Piranha escort would be a total pain in the neck to deal with.
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wantec

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #3 on: 23 June 2017, 08:40:03 »
Wantec do biped superheavy 'Mechs have multiple crew members?
Nope, single pilot. I think the main reason the Tripods have 3 is that they came from MWDA which had 3-pilot Tripods. And since there's been some form of dual cockpit option for regular 'Mechs it wasn't that odd.

It makes sense to me. The Ares is the 3rd generation of superheavies produced by the Republic. They probably knew from fighting the Omega (1st gen superheavy) that infantry was going to be a problem, but didn't figure out how to solve it with the Orca (their first home grown superheavy ["Can we even build a superheavy at all?"], 2nd generation). Then with the Ares (3rd generation, first Republic production model) they figured out the anti-infantry aspect.

But I agree an Omega with a Scarecrow or Piranha escort would be a total pain in the neck to deal with.
I cover this somewhat in the part 2, but yeah, it definitely seems to be a realization that they need some secondaries for infantry, kind of like a lot of tanks and other slow vehicles have.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #4 on: 23 June 2017, 12:04:10 »
Very nice article and breakdown of the two big boys :) I did an 'IC' story esque thing for the Orca here

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,49211.0.html

But yours covers it way better :)
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #5 on: 23 June 2017, 12:32:49 »
I too did the Orca, back on the old boards in 2009, back when it was nothing more than an April Fools joke (my article itself was done on April 1st).  Then I took a few years off and when I came back, the Orca was canon (though it's cannon wasn't canon, since it had Sniper artilery in the April Fools verison, which made it rather better I think).

I do like the idea to try and contextualize the Superheavy mechs and try to explore their evolution, and it seems to be off to a good start.  Though I suppose we probably don't know enough about Armaris' Folly (the proto-Stone Rhino) to give it a menion, and I don't know weather it influanced these later mechs anyway.

As to the mechs themselves, another poster once asked weather in a universe where these mechs were common, would it be possible to make a superheavy version of Zeta battalion (or which ever greek letter comes after zeta) or the Davion Superheavy Guards.  It did I think make for an intresting thought experament.  The Omega is just a monster, and it's hard to imagine trying to close with a wall of such mechs, and the Orca is tactically flexable enough to cover many of the tactics mechs would try to counter them (closing under GR minimums, using faster mechs to race in, and so on).  You've got a lot of LB cannons, so air strikes can get painful fast.  If only the Orca had artilery, you'd be able to deliver counter battery fire.  And that's just the first two mechs in the set!

In the universe we have, however, the idea of one being deployed with out at least a level II of support (and probably more) is just crazy.  You'll have your own infantry or BA to cover your legs, you may well have access to your own artilery, or else to fast mechs to strike into the enemy back field to neuteralize enemy batteries.  All you really need to do is just kill anything within your range.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #6 on: 23 June 2017, 12:44:42 »
Great write up, wantec.

I've only gotten to use Superheavies on MegaMek and fought a Omega once in event at a local convention. 
I can see that that's what could be used as, special event sort Mech.

Its too bad the Supers are bit squishy.  I understand this was done due to balance issues.
I do think though the Superheavy Tripods have a clearly advantage over the Omega and Orca. Specially not having pay excessively for turning.  That helps to make up some of the speed issues.   
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #7 on: 23 June 2017, 13:53:44 »
Nice article I always thought the WoB version was nasty the Orca was where it was heading tripods seem to come out of thin air it was a new product line for MWDA but I wish there had been more behind their development maybe lighter tripods first?
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wantec

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #8 on: 23 June 2017, 14:02:29 »
XTRO Republic III attempts to fill the non-Superheavy Tripods with the Triskellion. But even the MWDA fluff had the Tripod mode as new and unusual.


Speaking of April Fools and joking MotWs, have some more:




BONUS ‘MECH OF THE WEEK: ORC-7D ORCA

Today we will be covering one the Crimson Revolution’s premiere Superheavies, the ORC-7D Orca. The Third League Defense Forces have moved beyond such designs, but it is important to know what our enemies are using.

Like its predecessors the ORC-1X and ORC-1A, the ORC-7D Orca is a 200 ton Superheavy ‘Mech, moving at 2/3 speed. Like all TLDF ‘Mechs it uses 3rd Generation components in its design and construction. Based on analysis of captured and destroyed Crimson Revolution ‘Mechs, we have not been able to identify the source of their production, but they are equivalent to TLDF supplies.

Use of 3rd Generation components and weapons allows the Crimson Revolution ‘Mechs to compete against TLDF ‘Mechs, even if the Crimson Revolution warriors are inferior. The -7D Orca carries a trio of Large Grazers, one to each side torso and one to the left arm. Mounted in the left torso is a trio of 3rd Gen. Missile 20 racks. A total of 24 missiles are available for the racks, keeping them well-supplied. A Gauss Cannon 20 is mounted in the right arm along with 60 rounds of ammo, plenty for any mission.

A total of 30 3rd Gen heat sinks work to keep the Orca cool, which it will struggle with in some firing modes. A targeting computer was added to help off-set the skill difference between Crimson Revolution and TLDF warriors. For protection, 370 points of 3rd Gen armor are used laid out in an odd pattern:

12
44/30(12)/42(20)/30(12)/44
62/62

This leaves Orca -7Ds with not enough armor on the torsos. All TLDF units are directed to focus fire on the torsos of -7D Orcas whenever they are encountered in combat. The lighter TLDF designed SHO-6TH Hogarth carries a similar armament (4 Large Grazers and a pair of 3GM/20 racks) with a better, more even armor layout. That said, up close the -7D Orca can dish out a lot of damage with the GC/20 and HE ammo in the 3GM/20s. If at all possible, carve away at -7D Orcas from medium or long range before it can get close to you. With its slow speed, this should be no problem for even the newest TLDF warrior.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #9 on: 23 June 2017, 14:25:31 »

Even before the rules nerf them with to-hit and anti-mech attack modifiers, superheavy mechs are almost always inferior to two assault or heavy mechs at half the weight each.  You get roughly equivalent firepower and armor split between two faster units.  Two 3/5, 100-tonners with 19 tons of armor each are more than a match for the 2/3, 200-ton Orca and its 36 tons of armor.  And two, 4/6, 75-tonners with 13 tons of armor each are more than a match for the 2/3, 150-ton Omega and its 27 tons of armor (barring lucky Gauss decapitations).   And again, that's before accounting for the easier to-hit and anti-mech attack numbers.

I'd like to see an eventual evolution to an optimal, 130-ton, 3/5 superheavy mech in the canon.  It will probably still be somewhat inferior to a couple 65-tonners with equivalent technology and optimization.  But it would get close, especially if it was an omni that could carry its own battle armor to deal with anti-mech attacks and thus dispose of all the secondary weaponry that diffuses the primary firepower of the Poseidon and Ares.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #10 on: 23 June 2017, 14:28:49 »
I do like the idea to try and contextualize the Superheavy mechs and try to explore their evolution, and it seems to be off to a good start.  Though I suppose we probably don't know enough about Armaris' Folly (the proto-Stone Rhino) to give it a menion, and I don't know weather it influanced these later mechs anyway.

The Matar (aka "Amaris's Folly") was in Experimental Technical Readout: Boondoggles.
It was 110 tons, but used the regular BattleMech construction rules rather than the Super-Heavy rules. Needless to say it is the poster child for the "Illegal" quirk..

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #11 on: 23 June 2017, 14:49:15 »
Even before the rules nerf them with to-hit and anti-mech attack modifiers, superheavy mechs are almost always inferior to two assault or heavy mechs at half the weight each.  You get roughly equivalent firepower and armor split between two faster units.  Two 3/5, 100-tonners with 19 tons of armor each are more than a match for the 2/3, 200-ton Orca and its 36 tons of armor.  And two, 4/6, 75-tonners with 13 tons of armor each are more than a match for the 2/3, 150-ton Omega and its 27 tons of armor (barring lucky Gauss decapitations).   And again, that's before accounting for the easier to-hit and anti-mech attack numbers.

I guess it depends on where your bottleneck is.  If it's just pure tons of equipment you can cram onto a dropship, then sure why not just bring a larger number of 100 tonners.  But, if it is pilots, then putting a single elite or hyper elite pilot in a monster with 36 tons of armor that's imune to head caps and by the way has an enormus number of guns is better than putting that pilot in a Thunder Hawk or Emperor and then putting a regular pilot in the other on their wing.  And if you are trying to get the most mech per square meter, say you're defending a narrow pass, then again a Superheavy allows you to get 200 tons of mech into a single hex.  On a vast open plain sure this is not useful, but if I'm taking my 300 best mechwarriors to hold back the Persians at the Hot Gates, I'm taking as many superheavies as I can get my hands on (though if I have to march up from Sparta it's possible my 2/3 monsters wouldn't make it in time, so there's that).

The Matar (aka "Amaris's Folly") was in Experimental Technical Readout: Boondoggles.
It was 110 tons, but used the regular BattleMech construction rules rather than the Super-Heavy rules. Needless to say it is the poster child for the "Illegal" quirk..

Ah, don't have that one (though it sounds like a lot of fun!).
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #12 on: 23 June 2017, 16:29:35 »
I guess it depends on where your bottleneck is... But, if it is pilots, then putting a single elite or hyper elite pilot in a monster with 36 tons of armor that's imune to head caps and by the way has an enormus number of guns is better than putting that pilot in a Thunder Hawk or Emperor and then putting a regular pilot in the other on their wing.  And if you are trying to get the most mech per square meter, say you're defending a narrow pass, then again a Superheavy allows you to get 200 tons of mech into a single hex.

Sure, fluff-wise the Omega and a bunch of Revenant drones made sense when the Blakies were running low on mechwarriors at the end of the Terra campaign.  (Although to fully exploit their abilities, the Omegas still needed C3i spotters in other units, so the Blakies may not have saved on that many mechwarriors.)

And sure, in the real world, punching through 200 tons of armor covering a 30-meter space is twice as hard as punching through 100 tons of metal in the same space.

But in terms of the actual game rules -- not fluff or real-world considerations -- a superheavy is at a disadvantage in numbers, positioning, and movement modifiers against two mechs with the equivalent tonnage or BV2 (and the probably several mechs needed to cost the equivalent in C-bills).  The two heavy or assault mechs will be faster than the superheavy while fielding about the same armor and weaponry.

Add in the -1 to-hit modifier against superheavies, and it really doesn't make sense to use them, even ignoring the infantry vulnerability, in a game you're trying to win.

There may be an optimized, 3/5, ~130-ton, superheavy omni that closes most of the tonnage comparison gap, but I suspect it will still suffer in terms of BV2 or C-bill comparisons.  (My homegrown designs certainly do.)

Superheavies are good variety for GM opposition flavor or boss units at the end of a campaign.  But they usually don't make for a winning PC, tournament, or pickup game force.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #13 on: 23 June 2017, 21:31:13 »
My only experience with superheavies comes from a single game in which an Ares was used as the anchor unit for an RotS force.  With the firepower from the Ares combined with the smaller mechs, it pretty much rolled over the opposing force.  To be honest, I'm surprised there aren't any superheavies that go with XLRMs as their primary weaponry: being able to badly out-range your opposition seems like an obvious choice for such slow units.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #14 on: 23 June 2017, 21:48:55 »
My only experience with superheavies comes from a single game in which an Ares was used as the anchor unit for an RotS force.  With the firepower from the Ares combined with the smaller mechs, it pretty much rolled over the opposing force.  To be honest, I'm surprised there aren't any superheavies that go with XLRMs as their primary weaponry: being able to badly out-range your opposition seems like an obvious choice for such slow units.

Since you can fit actual artillery pieces on Super-Heavies, wouldn't they be a better fit? (Or is that just me? XD)

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #15 on: 23 June 2017, 22:35:37 »
Depends on what you're trying to accomplish, I guess.  XLRMs give you artillery-like range without the waiting time.  Though I do wonder if a standard Thumper might be a better fit on the Orca than the Sniper cannon.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #16 on: 24 June 2017, 01:03:11 »
There may be an optimized, 3/5, ~130-ton, superheavy omni that closes most of the tonnage comparison gap, but I suspect it will still suffer in terms of BV2 or C-bill comparisons.  (My homegrown designs certainly do.)
They seem to fit in with other crazy prototypes in C-bill costs. My own 3/5 130 tonner, the Gurahl, was just under 55 million C-bills - easily the cost of a 3025 assault lance.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #17 on: 24 June 2017, 06:05:22 »
The Poseidon's a 3/5 mover but to me it and the Ares both seem under gunned for their size, nice designs but its like a tad under-armed.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #18 on: 24 June 2017, 06:58:20 »
The Poseidon's a 3/5 mover but to me it and the Ares both seem under gunned for their size, nice designs but its like a tad under-armed.
Was it on purpose or was it showcase the limitation entire class of Superheavy BattleMech in general is what i always wondered.

Superheavies properly excel in couple of roles like mobile artillery battery and command post sort roles.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #19 on: 24 June 2017, 08:04:22 »
Yeah, whilst the Omega and Orca are both almost purely defensive units, the 'YOU SHALL NOT PASS!' as mentioned earlier, plant it near something you want to keep and the baddies want to take and dare them to attack you.

The Poseidon is basically a somewhat fat assault, whilst the Ares goes back to being more a defensive/command unit.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #20 on: 24 June 2017, 09:18:34 »
The Poseidon's a 3/5 mover but to me it and the Ares both seem under gunned for their size, nice designs but its like a tad under-armed.
Hey, no fair. No skipping ahead.

Funny that you call the twin Clan ERPPCs on the Poseidon under gunned. Does that mean you think a Hellstar is "just a good start?"  ;)

I'll cover them more in the next article if you can wait that long. There's definitely tough choices to make. I think for the most part TPTB didn't want to go overboard on their first Superheavies. Not to mention, the Omega is really the only new design that was made. All the others had some or all of their stats shown in some way prior to their appearance with canon Superheavy construction rules.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #21 on: 24 June 2017, 10:31:03 »
Hey, no fair. No skipping ahead.

Funny that you call the twin Clan ERPPCs on the Poseidon under gunned. Does that mean you think a Hellstar is "just a good start?"  ;)

Sorry teach :p And well the twin ER pee's is a good start but then it goes a bit wibbly wobby :p
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #22 on: 24 June 2017, 11:44:54 »
Now did you take a look at the non-canon configurations as well: the Quad Rotary Gun and the Quad ER PPC (minus the Arty) from Project Omega?

Again their not canon but in your opinion do they fit the scheme of big defensive units properly?

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #23 on: 24 June 2017, 11:47:17 »
Sorry teach :p And well the twin ER pee's is a good start but then it goes a bit wibbly wobby :p

Well of course they're wibbly-wobbly...the only have THREE legs... :D :D

In all seriousness though, as wantec said, the Ares were constrained by having stats from MW:DA to be contended with.

(Personally I think the majority of the ClickTech units were under-gunned. So I'm mighty impressed that TPTB were able to make so many of them actually scary when they ported them over to CBT.)

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #24 on: 24 June 2017, 12:15:17 »
Well, it's probably a combination of having stats already, starting off worse with something whose impact you still want to test, and having to be ready for a variety of targets.
I wouldn't have a problem with a heavy mech having not a single "headcapper"-type weapon, given that they themselves don't automatically die from the usual suspects, as there's plenty unit types that would suffer more from clusters or more accurate options.

Is there actually any quad superheavy battlemech? And would that even make sense, given that it'd be even less mobile in combat....
Anyways, a good article, I'm looking forward to part two.

And lastly, a question: Do they get reasonable BV-recompense for being that easy to hit?
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #25 on: 24 June 2017, 12:54:55 »
There's no point in building a superheavy quad, as far as I can see.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #26 on: 24 June 2017, 13:31:32 »
There is barely ever a reason to build a quad, but so far it hasn't stopped people. ^^
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #27 on: 24 June 2017, 13:56:39 »
Would a Quad Turret work on Superheavy?
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #28 on: 24 June 2017, 14:09:35 »
Is there actually any quad superheavy battlemech? And would that even make sense, given that it'd be even less mobile in combat....

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #29 on: 24 June 2017, 14:43:40 »
There is barely ever a reason to build a quad, but so far it hasn't stopped people. ^^
Superheavy quads at least get the crit space of Superheavies to help.


Would a Quad Turret work on Superheavy?
I don't see why not, but I'm not certain on that.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #30 on: 24 June 2017, 14:48:28 »

And lastly, a question: Do they get reasonable BV-recompense for being that easy to hit?

There doesn't seem to be. The BV is pretty much done the same as a standard BattleMech, except that the HD Gyro is counted as a standard Gyro for purposes of BV, and there's a different engine modifier, which would drive the Defensive BV up a little bit. There doesn't seem to be any modifier for the fact that the design is easier to hit (which is somewhat strange, since there are modifiers for aspects of designs where they themselves have a harder time hitting).

As for the Omega. I dunno. It looks fun and interesting, but it just...Okay, sure, the first round or two when you face them it seems like it might be problematic, but once you figure out the major flaw (single heat sinks) it looks like it would become boring. Sort of like those old video games where you could beat the boss as long as you got to just the right spot, or hit it while following the exact same rhythm. It could be interesting and tough, but once you know the trick, its kind of..meh.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #31 on: 24 June 2017, 15:20:00 »
I will say this about the super-heavies, of the ones we've seen thus far, the Orca's the best looking. 
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #32 on: 24 June 2017, 15:24:47 »
You familiar with the phrase "damning by faint praise?"
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #33 on: 24 June 2017, 16:50:58 »
There definately is an asthetic to these mechs...

I too an troubled by the single heat sinks on the Omega, and by more than a few other things.  I do feel that we really don't have a truely fantastic superheavy, and I'm reasonably sure its intentional.  One imagines a fear that if 200 ton mechs were alowed to be very good, it would upset the ballance of things too much, and so not only are superheavies given all sorts of penalties like being easy to hit, there can never be a superheavy Hellstar or Bain 3 or Vapor Eagle (isn't there a quad LPL TC Supernova?  use that example if there is one).  But, there are enough good mechs that it's not hard to pick a set of really excelent mechs and say that they're colectively better, and not be wrong.

So compare the SHS Omega to the SHS Thunder Hawk.  The Omega is slower, true, but with it's LB-X 10s, it can fight off more easily the sorts of fast Hovers, VTOLs and fighters that can pose such a risk to the Thunder Hawk.  Sure, a fast mech or one striking from ambush, or one using longer ranged heat weapons like plasma cannons and rifles, is still a threat.  But few declair the T-Hawk unusable, and if an opponent wants focus so on heating up one of my mechs, then let the Awesomes and Warhawks and such on my side blaze away unhindered.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #34 on: 24 June 2017, 17:00:13 »
Omegas do have the big weak spot of single heat sinks, but Arrow IV infernos are the only thing that can deal it heat and be out of range of return fire. Don't forget that it has C3i and really should deploy as a part of a Level II with spotters.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #35 on: 24 June 2017, 17:19:07 »
Is a Alpha Strike review of the Superheavies going to happen?  Some of the issues with them may change with that system.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #36 on: 24 June 2017, 19:12:54 »
Well, the heat issue is gone under Alpha Strike, as far as I know. The big issue seems to be the lack of a movement modifier and the fact that as a large unit the Superheavy will have a -1 to-hit modifier when its being shot at. Which means against something comparable, say the Hellstar, the Superheavy will be much easier to hit.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #37 on: 24 June 2017, 19:59:42 »
So would it be cheaper, then? In AS, I mean.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #38 on: 24 June 2017, 20:41:27 »


Some of the specials i don't know.  Like LG for instance.

But i don't really see issues other than it's super slow and -1 for anyone to hit.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #39 on: 25 June 2017, 02:41:53 »
I'm pretty sure that LG indicates that it's a Large unit, and thus is easier to hit.

And man, that armor.  O0
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #40 on: 25 June 2017, 02:41:53 »
the LG special is the thing that marks it as a superheavy in AS. AS's size ctagries go from 1 (lights) to 4 (assaults) but not higher. a superheavy technically should be size "5" but since that would end up unbalanced for things like physical attacks, they cap it at 4 and use the LG, VLG, and SLG specials for the bigger stuff. mechs can only go to LG, vehicles can get bigger.

the LG special means the mech counts as 3 inches tall for LOS, not the normal 2 inches (and is actually a quarter inch wider as well). it also alters the modifiers for things: (some of these are not in the superheavy mechs section, but are from other rules sections where the LG special is mentioned)
overrides stacking limits (friendly units cannot move through them)
it loses partial cover benefits
they move through woods, rubble, and buildings slower Faster (see discussion below)
physical attacks against them are easier to hit, while ones they perform have a penalty
Infantry find it easier to swarm them
cannot climb buildings and count as size 5 for building weight limits (not even a hardened building can support them)
they are more likely to bog down in soft terrain
exploding engines (stackpoling basically does double damage compared to a normal mech)
cargo and throwing stuff (counts as a size level 5. so a superheavy can carry as cargo or toss something up to sz3 (a heavy mechs weight.**))
it makes them immune to Morale Checks
gives them extra resistance to TSEMP


(**we joke about Atlas's tossing around locusts.. a superheavy could toss around dragons's..)
« Last Edit: 25 June 2017, 13:24:41 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #41 on: 25 June 2017, 04:50:08 »
Well, if Alpha Strike's principles are to be believed, I would assume that drops the price, unless the benefits are seen as such a great boon. And why would it move slower through woods? Shouldn't it be the other way around?
All that said, it looks like a formidable unit in AS. Flak, C3, and so much armour that you'll probably train your good shots on lighter targets. Not quite in the ballpark of some vehicles, however.

Back to cBT: So, what are superheavies good for? Given they are easy to hit (and let's ignore they are not costeffective in BV, ever), and very slow, maybe it just shouldn't be tried to turn them into regular line machines?
I guess a 150+ ton Gun battery has some things going for it. Whenever I want mobility they aren't the first pick anyways.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #42 on: 25 June 2017, 05:32:37 »
Excellent overview of the pros and cons of Superheavies in general.

I might be the only one who doesn't think the -1 bonus to hit a Superheavy really matters. A Superheavy obviously trades that size and speed for sheer weapons load, so in addition to its weapons it should be packed full of defensive equipment like Angel ECM (for ghost targets), AMS, armored components and stealth or modular armour etc.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #43 on: 25 June 2017, 08:49:07 »
Can't use Armored Components, can't use any form of Stealth armor/systems,can't mount modular armor. They can mount Angel ECM, so Ghost targets are theoretically a possibility.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #44 on: 25 June 2017, 12:27:04 »
Anyone have opinions or experience regarding using Super-heavies with Reactive, Hardened, or FL armor?  I'd also list Reflective, but given the vulnerability to artillery that Super-heavies already have I'd expect that it's already a poor choice.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #45 on: 25 June 2017, 13:20:17 »
the LG special means the mech counts as 3 inches tall for LOS, not the normal 2 inches (and is actually a quarter inch wider as well). it also alters the modifiers for things: (some of these are not in the superheavy mechs section, but are from other rules sections where the LG special is mentioned)

(snip)
they move through woods, rubble, and buildings slower
(snip)

I would disagree with this also. 

Moving through heavy woods should count as light, and light woods counts as clear.  It gives SH Mechs more options (they can take a slight shortcut while a regular unit may have to go around).

This imitates that BT SH Mechs treat each hex as costing 1 MP less than normal for them to move through (minimum 1 MP).  BT SH Mechs are slow, but as someone once said, they will not stop, they don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #46 on: 25 June 2017, 13:22:56 »
Well, if Alpha Strike's principles are to be believed, I would assume that drops the price, unless the benefits are seen as such a great boon. And why would it move slower through woods? Shouldn't it be the other way around?
All that said, it looks like a formidable unit in AS. Flak, C3, and so much armour that you'll probably train your good shots on lighter targets. Not quite in the ballpark of some vehicles, however.

considering that the Omega you linked has a price comparable to the higher end Assaults (the point cost is comparable to a Turkina H, which given that is one of the best assualt base chassis around, might be a fair comparison for this:


and the movement thing is is applies a -1 inch movement distance modifier in that terrain. i didn't check the main AS book to determine what that was at the time (it was 3am), so i might have been wrong.

checking..

and looks like i was wrong. the movement tables for AS have those terrain's with costs expressed as a +1 inch from the movement value per inch of terrain.. so the superheavies actually do move through woods, rubble, and buildings faster, almost like they were not there.

now i'm imagining a bright Red Orca bursting through a wall blaring "oh YEAAH" on its loudspeakers...

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #47 on: 25 June 2017, 13:37:32 »
As to the -1 TN, while I think it is possible to make too little of it, it's also possible to make too much of it.

A superheavy was never going to generate super high TNs anyway.  Since you're covered in guns and want to lower your own TNs, you'll tend to stay at a walk or stay still so you're never getting a TMM, after all, and since these will tend to be deployed to hot spots they'll tend to be pitted against veteran and elite mechwarriors (though one can still imagine senerios where a Level II with an Omega as an anchor has to hold against a green company that thought it was on a milk run) so again low TNs.  I suppose the key down side is that such mechs can't dictate range so they'll tend to fight at long range.

But, a 3 gunner in a normal mech who walks and takes a shot at that Omega at long range is looking at a 7 TN, vs an 8 to hit an Annihlator (and perhaps a 9 against a Banshee or Zeus that can put up a +1 more readily).  It's a lot, sure (I no longer have all the percentages memorized, but I want to say 15-16%?) but not enough to make up for the fact that such a mech has perportionaly that much more armor anyway.

Which brings up the point implied above, that a superheavy with massive armor might make an intresting mech to just soak up fire.  A 200 tonner could mount 100 tons of hardened armor and still a decent selection of weapons.  Or, perhaps more reasonably 50 tons of FL armor, and not be reduced in speed and weapons too much (would hardened armor make a 2/3 mech a 2/2? how would that even work?). 

Such a mech would make that TN choice a lot more intresting.  Will I take a shot at an Omega over some 4/6 heavy or assualt at a -2 relitive TN? Probably, because I want thouse three GRs off the field.  Would I shoot some sort of Ultra Great Turtle, even if it had the weapons load of a normal heavy or assualt mech, or that normal heavy or assualt mech even at a relitive +2 TN? 

As to things to mitigate that, looking at the two mechs here (and thinking ahead a bit) I see a few SRM launchers, so smoke rounds come to mind.  Beyond that, one only need find a good firing spot once, I suppose, and in a defensive psudo-turret setting you can have a few prepaired positions for your monster that can help negate that penalty (though one could still argue that a conventional assualt mech could be put in those positions just as easily and to more effect).
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #48 on: 25 June 2017, 14:53:17 »
Can't use Armored Components, can't use any form of Stealth armor/systems,can't mount modular armor.
(rereads) d'oh!  #P

All in all, I think we can all agree a Superheavy clearly needs a backup team to cover its various downsides to be worth it. As it should be.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #49 on: 25 June 2017, 18:15:35 »
Though that raises the question what is easier to manufacture for the republic? This, or clantech?
Because an Omega can probably be emulated by a very slow clan-spec Assault. Less armour, sure. If the Republic can produce enough FL armour a superheavy with it might be viable, though I'd assume that amount of standard armour is really tough enough for the job.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #50 on: 25 June 2017, 19:47:29 »
I'm actually surprised that none of the original collossals had AMS after thinking about it I'd have at least two on them all
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #51 on: 25 June 2017, 21:49:04 »
I just want to point out that, in Alpha Strike, infantry are the bane of superheavies. They don't care how much armor you have. If they can keep standing next to you, they will pull anti-mech attacks and pile on the crits right past your armor. You will end up with a totally useless pile of scrap with near-untouched armor. So, if you are going to field one of these you absolutely must plan to keep infantry and BA away from it. Honestly, that can be true of any slow, heavily armored unit.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #52 on: 25 June 2017, 21:50:22 »
I think the endosteel for Superheavy battlemech thing was a fluff issue to make it so that technology to make it was not complete.  So it set up the way for development tree of sorts to where the Ares is now.

I hope that the Omega (Heavy PPC vs) isn't disappointing.  Then again we have no Record sheet for the thing. So maybe it will have double heat sinks.  Yes thing slow, but it will make sure someone pays dearly if someone closes on it. 

How a lance of Superheavies operate.  We will have to wait for the part 2 of this series to get into that.  I can't imagine that total lance of Superheaviers would not have at least lance or more running along side them.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #53 on: 26 June 2017, 02:58:28 »
The H-PPC Omega should have somewhere on the order of 25 tons of spare space with the Guass and their ammo removed for heatsinks.  Assuming they are upgraded to doubles, this is more than enough, and even with singles you'd still vent 35 heat making a full alpha a bit iffy but nothing too insane.  the 'inferiority' comes from the range differenence IMO.  The guass's allow the omega to really reach out and slap someone as long as there's someone helping them with c3i.  To use the HPPC you need to get a fair bit closer and then you've not really got the speed to close with someone.

And I like that super-heavies are not all conquering god machines but instead are quite imperfect and in reality outside of their toughness, they are not that special and have their own tactical limitations and drawbacks.
« Last Edit: 26 June 2017, 03:00:33 by marauder648 »
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #54 on: 26 June 2017, 06:18:40 »
The H-PPC Omega should have somewhere on the order of 25 tons of spare space with the Guass and their ammo removed for heatsinks.  Assuming they are upgraded to doubles, this is more than enough, and even with singles you'd still vent 35 heat making a full alpha a bit iffy but nothing too insane.
Nope, 10 tons, or 13 if you remove the CASE II crits in the torsos. Remember its not just a weapons swap, but also the internal structure going from Endo Steel on the Blakist model to standard on the Republic version. Assuming the now useless CASE II in the torsos goes, 23 total single heat sinks isn't enough to handle those weapons. Doubles? Absolutely, but then I wouldn't call a little bit of range reduction in exchange for removing your biggest weakness to be "inferior".

Quote
And I like that super-heavies are not all conquering god machines but instead are quite imperfect and in reality outside of their toughness, they are not that special and have their own tactical limitations and drawbacks.
There's definitely ways to break out of these limitations, but speed seems to be the biggest restraint keeping Superheavies from becoming too overpowered.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #55 on: 26 June 2017, 07:36:50 »
The H-PPC Omega should have somewhere on the order of 25 tons of spare space with the Guass and their ammo removed for heatsinks.  Assuming they are upgraded to doubles, this is more than enough, and even with singles you'd still vent 35 heat making a full alpha a bit iffy but nothing too insane.  the 'inferiority' comes from the range differenence IMO.  The guass's allow the omega to really reach out and slap someone as long as there's someone helping them with c3i.  To use the HPPC you need to get a fair bit closer and then you've not really got the speed to close with someone.

And I like that super-heavies are not all conquering god machines but instead are quite imperfect and in reality outside of their toughness, they are not that special and have their own tactical limitations and drawbacks.

I think someone said it best up thread: The Superheavy 'Mechs are not line units they're defensive units. Semi-mobile turrets that thicken static defenses. If you deploy them with the same tactical mindset you'd use for the Pillager Anvil you have the right idea. They're not going to strike quickly and seize ground. They're going to hold ground you've taken.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #56 on: 08 August 2017, 07:22:59 »
In another forum a vague wording regarding the celestials (15t increment) did born the idea to do it - from the Malacks 30t + 15t up to the Archangel. This would change the Deva to 75 the Seraph to 90 and the Archangel finally to 105t.

The strange thing is - the Archangel (with exception of jumpjets) would work like it does already. The Compact Engine become a STD Fusion for 3 criticals on a super heavy and the heavy gyro would also only consume 2 slots. With C3i for 1 slot you would still have 6 slots remaining in CT you could almost place the armament of most Archangels in the CT and head (HPPC head mount)

The drawback as mentioned the missing JJs and the negative effects in combat.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Superheavy ‘Mechs Part 1 (Omega & Orca)
« Reply #57 on: 14 August 2017, 07:50:46 »
I'm pretty sure that LG indicates that it's a Large unit, and thus is easier to hit.

And man, that armor.  O0

Are you sure it doesn't mean "Lotsa Guns"? Or it could be a tribute to you, Liam's Ghost! ;)

Can't use Armored Components, can't use any form of Stealth armor/systems,can't mount modular armor. They can mount Angel ECM, so Ghost targets are theoretically a possibility.

They could mount Chaff Pods too, if that's your thing. In fact they could mount two of them in a single critical slot. I'm reminded of a Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex issue where Section 9 had to stop a runaway multiped tank.
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