Author Topic: Clan repairs and salvage efforts  (Read 11487 times)

Raven Claw

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Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« on: 10 February 2012, 10:03:04 »
We know the clans are high up there if not on the top when it comes to not wasting anything.
With omnimechs being much easier to replace parts and do major repairs on, I was wondering to what extent
would a second line mech have to be damaged before deciding it was not worth repairing and instead salvage it
for parts and raw materials.  Like how many limbs or torsos would have to be lost since they are not modular like
their omnimech brethren
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Stormfury

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #1 on: 10 February 2012, 10:49:03 »
There are rules for determining "Destroyed" (most in-game 'Mech kills) as opposed to "Truly Destroyed."

Anything that was just "Destroyed" can be repaired.

Anything that was "Truly Destroyed" (requiring the destruction of all Centre Torso internal structure) can only be scrapped for parts. If there's anything left at all.

As a result, most damage can be repaired. So it's mostly a cost/benefit analysis. Theoretically, a 20-tonner with every item on board destroyed, all armour and internal structure marked off but for one point remaining in the centre torso can be rebuilt if you really want to spend the time, effort, and materials to do so.

In practice, there's not much point to doing that and the wreck should probably just be rendered down for parts. The other thing to be factored in is whether it's a design that brings prestige, like an Orion IIC or a DishonourMobile like the Bowman. The former is pretty much garaunteed a rebuild, while the latter is less likely to be returned to service. I suspect most Clans would be more inclined to rebuild things that use the Clan technology base than their SLDF relics due to compatibility issues, too.

Mostly a case-by-case basis, unfortunately. I guess if a rule of thumb is really needed, maybe they rebuild as long as at least 10% of the 'Mech's centre torso internal structure remains or something?
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snewsom2997

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #2 on: 10 February 2012, 10:53:29 »
They would strip it bare, of anything of use, metal can be recycled, if a CT was cored or a Head Capped, the rest would be salvaged. The only thing I think would negate any salvage would be a fusion overload, Uncommon, and even ammo explosions unless the cascade would leave some usable parts to salvage.

Raven Claw

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #3 on: 10 February 2012, 17:59:03 »
That whole thing about the prestige is something to think about. I know they said they would love to get a hold of any Atlas II they find.
I don't see any organized body in the Battletech universe that would just abandon equipment if they could go back to the battlefield afterwards.

Is there a cost for BIG repairs in one of the manuals some place? Like lets say I had a Stone Rhino which lost both arms, a torso and a leg.
Would they go through the effort to repair it or just dismantle/salvage whats left to go to other uses?  And what if it was a mech like the
Black Python? since it has that huge 375 XL engine, I bet that would be somewhat costly to repair as well.
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Diablo48

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #4 on: 11 February 2012, 04:57:36 »
Another major possibility is that the damaged 'Mech may be dumped in a corner somewhere and left as is until there is a need to gut it to repair a "better" machine or enough other parts to fully rebuild it.  After all, if there is no reason to commit you may as well put off the decision until there is a need to be addressed.


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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #5 on: 11 February 2012, 05:20:38 »
Fluff indicates that the Clans will keep repairing things as long as they can, most of the time.
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Stormlion1

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #6 on: 11 February 2012, 21:07:53 »
Even a mech hulk can find new life as a training dummy for sibkos after all.
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Col.Hengist

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #7 on: 14 February 2012, 11:20:33 »
Fluff indicates that the Clans will keep repairing things as long as they can, most of the time.

 Unless the mech is deemed irelavent, like the woodsman.

 
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Stormlion1

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #8 on: 14 February 2012, 12:02:42 »
The Woodsman may have had a problem with a low production run, and a lack of spare parts to keep them operational. It would make more sense to retire the mech than keep producing new parts for it when the line could produce parts for other designs.
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SteveRestless

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #9 on: 14 February 2012, 12:10:39 »
Nah. when designs like the nova and summoner have been around forever, and the woodsman dies off (seriously, nobody else thought it might be a worthwhile mech to adopt? there were no clans who could use another solid heavy?) I have a hard time seeing it as anything but "Well, we've never had any of these around before... we've only mentioned it.... so we'll declare it extinct just so theres not this glaring flaw." meanwhile, there are still star league era designs in use with garrison forces, who would probably LOVE to have a used woodsman instead.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

snewsom2997

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #10 on: 14 February 2012, 14:03:28 »
Nah. when designs like the nova and summoner have been around forever, and the woodsman dies off (seriously, nobody else thought it might be a worthwhile mech to adopt? there were no clans who could use another solid heavy?) I have a hard time seeing it as anything but "Well, we've never had any of these around before... we've only mentioned it.... so we'll declare it extinct just so theres not this glaring flaw." meanwhile, there are still star league era designs in use with garrison forces, who would probably LOVE to have a used woodsman instead.

Maybe it wasn't shiny enough anymore, at the time maybe they didn't have the tail to keep them going in 2nd line units.
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Diablo48

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #11 on: 14 February 2012, 14:08:31 »
It is also possible that one or more of the newer omnis based off the Woodsman were able to share parts with it so most Woodsmen were scavenged to fix "better" machines when they could have been repaired.


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Col.Hengist

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #12 on: 14 February 2012, 14:21:43 »
It just doesn't fit with what's said above about rebuilding salvaged mechs. This mech must have a taint on it like an Archangel or a Septasemia for it to not be in use any more. Oh well, lots of people love this mech, anyone can use anything in their own games. As soon as they come out( and its supposed to be this month ) I'm gettin a star of them.
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SteveRestless

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #13 on: 14 February 2012, 15:10:25 »
It is also possible that one or more of the newer omnis based off the Woodsman were able to share parts with it so most Woodsmen were scavenged to fix "better" machines when they could have been repaired.

possible, but seems unlikely. the mechs that bear physical resemblance to it, the naga and the gargoyle are 5t heavier and faster,  meaning more internal structure, different reactor... the one that shares its tonnage, isn't very physically similar, and uses a different engine too.

at best, I can see the pods getting cannibalized for reconfiguring new Timber Wolf and Gargoyles

I'd love to see it reintroduced as an Omni partner for the Tundra Wolf, since they're both wolf 4/6[8] mechs
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Stormfury

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #14 on: 15 February 2012, 03:23:44 »
We went through all this in another thread that got locked. The Woodsman was being defeated with regularity in trials by more mobile designs like the Summoner and more powerful 'Mechs like the Warhawk. In order to stay out in front, the Wolves began designing a new series of Omnis that became the Timber Wolf, Gargoyle and Naga. The production lines for the Woodsman were refurbished to build the new machines, which began replacing the Woodsman in front-line commands until none remained.
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Diablo48

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #15 on: 15 February 2012, 03:37:17 »
We went through all this in another thread that got locked. The Woodsman was being defeated with regularity in trials by more mobile designs like the Summoner and more powerful 'Mechs like the Warhawk. In order to stay out in front, the Wolves began designing a new series of Omnis that became the Timber Wolf, Gargoyle and Naga. The production lines for the Woodsman were refurbished to build the new machines, which began replacing the Woodsman in front-line commands until none remained.

We know that much.  The question at hand is where did the old ones go because there are plenty of other 'Mechs that have stuck around for centuries after going out of production.

I personally think there was some commonality in parts with the newer designs because that would simplify the logistics of the upgrade and allow the old units to be scrapped to fix the newer ones, but I have no evidence to support this beyond the fact that it would be a sound engineering decision.


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SteveRestless

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #16 on: 15 February 2012, 14:35:17 »
We went through all this in another thread that got locked. The Woodsman was being defeated with regularity in trials by more mobile designs like the Summoner and more powerful 'Mechs like the Warhawk. In order to stay out in front, the Wolves began designing a new series of Omnis that became the Timber Wolf, Gargoyle and Naga. The production lines for the Woodsman were refurbished to build the new machines, which began replacing the Woodsman in front-line commands until none remained.

I'm still not satisfied with that line of 'explanation'. The Woodsman has held its own against Summoners rather well in megamek battles I've fought, summoner on woodsman, and its even done acceptably against warhawks, certainly no worse than timber wolves I've taken against the warhawk. I would have rather the woodsman be treated like the Royal Mechs that have been retroactively inserted into the game, where it turns out there have been some around after all, they're just very rare. I mean, what does it hurt to leave that opening to having them in modern-era play?
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Hawkeye Jim

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #17 on: 15 February 2012, 15:39:27 »
When they say a Mech was "retired", do they actually mean the machines are put in storage, or simply that no one makes them anymore, so when the last one in use falls, that's it? If the former, then there might still be Woodsmen  around, just stored somewhere. In which case, if a Clan got real short in mechs, they could dig them out and use them.


Certain the Burrocks/Dark Caste would certainly have done so.

Stormfury

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #18 on: 15 February 2012, 15:57:53 »
Quote
I'm still not satisfied with that line of 'explanation'. The Woodsman has held its own against Summoners rather well in megamek battles I've fought, summoner on woodsman, and its even done acceptably against warhawks, certainly no worse than timber wolves I've taken against the warhawk. I would have rather the woodsman be treated like the Royal Mechs that have been retroactively inserted into the game, where it turns out there have been some around after all, they're just very rare. I mean, what does it hurt to leave that opening to having them in modern-era play?

Whatever works for your game. Canonically, all of them are gone.

It would probably help to have a look at Clan Wolf's equipment by the start of the Invasion to understand why the Woodsman met its demise. The most common machines are the Ice Ferret and Adder, with the Timber Wolf considered to be slow enough that a replacement was needed. A 4/8 [8] machine had to be replaced with 5/8 movers to compete with its contemporaries, and the same designs that were bought in for that duty were being outpaced so regularly their days were probably numbered without the Refusal War.

Regardless of the superiority of the design in the field (and the design's creator, IIRC Kit, admitted in the other thread that the machine should have been more flawed so the IC explanation made more sense) the perception of it was that it had failed and was costing them Trials.

Quote
When they say a Mech was "retired", do they actually mean the machines are put in storage, or simply that no one makes them anymore, so when the last one in use falls, that's it? If the former, then there might still be Woodsmen  around, just stored somewhere. In which case, if a Clan got real short in mechs, they could dig them out and use them.


Certain the Burrocks/Dark Caste would certainly have done so.

Per direct Word of Herb, none remain in any caches and the rumour that the Dark Caste has a Woodsman remains unverifiable at best.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #19 on: 15 February 2012, 16:15:11 »
Does the Woodsman have to be brought up every time? ::)
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SteveRestless

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #20 on: 15 February 2012, 17:06:33 »
Does the Woodsman have to be brought up every time? ::)

what can I say? I'm like a wolf with a bone.  :P
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Hawkeye Jim

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #21 on: 15 February 2012, 20:16:54 »
The reason I asked is that we know the Lupus was retired to storage as well as discontinued. perhaps other designs were as well. Normally they would simply retire the mechs to garrison units, not just store them.

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #22 on: 15 February 2012, 20:24:24 »
Does the Woodsman have to be brought up every time? ::)

They actually exist in line units, but they've been renamed the Necroequine.  And I'm sure someone else can come up with a much funnier name that's basically the same idea.
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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #23 on: 17 February 2012, 13:22:37 »
They actually exist in line units, but they've been renamed the Necroequine.  And I'm sure someone else can come up with a much funnier name that's basically the same idea.

hah, I like it.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

greatsarcasmo

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #24 on: 18 February 2012, 12:54:53 »
Let's stay off the Woodsman here.
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Raven Claw

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #25 on: 20 February 2012, 18:00:02 »
I am also thinking of that one now obsolete early omni the ghost bears made that they practically "gave" away to the Blood Spirits, the Stupid Hawk.
The bears had better omnis than in every role and class so it was not worth making and maintaining the old hawk anymore when you have limited factories and resources to make and maintain so many other designs.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #26 on: 20 February 2012, 18:08:00 »
Dude, the Stooping Hawk rocks, it's one of the best medium omnis available.
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Col.Hengist

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #27 on: 20 February 2012, 18:09:41 »
I am also thinking of that one now obsolete early omni the ghost bears made that they practically "gave" away to the Blood Spirits, the Stupid Hawk.
The bears had better omnis than in every role and class so it was not worth making and maintaining the old hawk anymore when you have limited factories and resources to make and maintain so many other designs.

 Why do you call it the stupid hawk?
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Hawkeye Jim

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #28 on: 20 February 2012, 19:19:24 »
Sarna lists the Stooping Hawk as a Blood Spirits design.

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #29 on: 20 February 2012, 19:34:28 »
Sarna lists the Stooping Hawk as a Blood Spirits design.

 It a bloodspirit mech,and a damn good one. the Bears designed it and rejected it.
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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #30 on: 20 February 2012, 19:46:38 »
It a bloodspirit mech,and a damn good one. the Bears designed it and rejected it.

As a tangent to this, I love TRO 3060, and I have no idea why.
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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #31 on: 20 February 2012, 20:07:32 »
Actually, the Bears designed something that lead to the Stooping Hawk. They decided that the Mad Dog was better for the role they had in mind, and the Blood Spirits completed further development and redesign of the abandoned prototype chassis.
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Stormlion1

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #32 on: 20 February 2012, 23:42:34 »
Actually, the Bears designed something that lead to the Stooping Hawk. They decided that the Mad Dog was better for the role they had in mind, and the Blood Spirits completed further development and redesign of the abandoned prototype chassis.

And the Ghost Bears probably kicked themselves when they saw what the Blood Spirits had made of the rejected design.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #33 on: 20 February 2012, 23:45:52 »
Fortunately, it still shows up as available to them.
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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #34 on: 20 February 2012, 23:55:36 »
Of course, they still would have access to the original schematics and could easily trial for a Blood Spirit example and start up a manufacturing line of there own or trial for Blood Spirit ones  or gain them through trade.
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Diablo48

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #35 on: 21 February 2012, 02:18:40 »
Of course, they still would have access to the original schematics and could easily trial for a Blood Spirit example and start up a manufacturing line of there own or trial for Blood Spirit ones  or gain them through trade.

Considering how resource starved the Spirits are, I suspect the Bears got a good deal trading second line and SLDF machines that they did not really want for omnis to carry around Elementals.


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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #36 on: 21 February 2012, 04:09:45 »
Quote
And the Ghost Bears probably kicked themselves when they saw what the Blood Spirits had made of the rejected design.

I dunno about that. The Mad Dog has another 5.5 tons of pod space, two extra fixed Double Heat Sinks, and the same speed at the cost of 1 point of survivability- which could easily have been made up for out of the pod space if it bothered the Bears so much. The Stooping Hawk uses its pod space better than the Mad Dog, but it pretty much has to, and is from a different design era to boot.

The Stooping Hawk is a nice ride if you're too resource-starved to go for all-out advanced Omni technology, but alone or in numbers it is going to be out-competed by the Mad Dog for its capabilities. Not that surprising a result, all in all.

Quote
Considering how resource starved the Spirits are, I suspect the Bears got a good deal trading second line and SLDF machines that they did not really want for omnis to carry around Elementals.

The Blood Spirits were pretty much in utter isolation after the Golden Century, with only occasional trade runs with the Snow Ravens and contact with the Fire Mandrills reminding others they were even there- they refused to attend Grand Council sessions unless specifically required to do so or extraordinary events like the Burrock Absorbtion or Invasion were on the agenda. They had to trial for the Ghost Bear OmniMech Prototype A that became the Stooping Hawk and aren't noted as having had dealings with the Bears, so trading doesn't seem that likely either.
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Diablo48

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #37 on: 21 February 2012, 05:24:27 »
The Blood Spirits were pretty much in utter isolation after the Golden Century, with only occasional trade runs with the Snow Ravens and contact with the Fire Mandrills reminding others they were even there- they refused to attend Grand Council sessions unless specifically required to do so or extraordinary events like the Burrock Absorbtion or Invasion were on the agenda. They had to trial for the Ghost Bear OmniMech Prototype A that became the Stooping Hawk and aren't noted as having had dealings with the Bears, so trading doesn't seem that likely either.

Considering the relationship between the Ravens and Bears it is entirely possible that there were indirect trades made through them, although it might not have been particularly intentional.


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Stormfury

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #38 on: 21 February 2012, 06:24:54 »
They would have been very, very low-volume, though; the Spirits were giving the Ravens WarShips they couldn't use in exchange for second-line 'Mechs the Ravens didn't want.

Isorla and in highly limited numbers because only the Burrocks were actively striking at the Spirits is a more likely explanation.
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Stormlion1

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #39 on: 22 February 2012, 11:59:33 »
There had to be a little more contact with the other Clans, for one Clan Wolf had a Blood Spirit pilot listed in ther old sourcebook so there had to have been the occasional trial between Blood Spirit forces and other Clans, rare as they may be.
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Raven Claw

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #40 on: 22 February 2012, 16:35:03 »
Why do you call it the stupid hawk?

Why? Because it wrecked my marriage!  I was always busy doing my duty working away in my labor/artisan caste job.
Then one day I came home to find out that it ran away with my spouse.....never to be heard from again!  :'(
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Col.Hengist

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #41 on: 22 February 2012, 18:02:11 »
Why? Because it wrecked my marriage!  I was always busy doing my duty working away in my labor/artisan caste job.
Then one day I came home to find out that it ran away with my spouse.....never to be heard from again!  :'(

 Atleast Danial Craig is now your wookie bitch  O0
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Moonsword

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #42 on: 22 February 2012, 18:08:04 »
Back to the topic, please.

Stormfury

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #43 on: 22 February 2012, 18:24:08 »
Quote
There had to be a little more contact with the other Clans, for one Clan Wolf had a Blood Spirit pilot listed in ther old sourcebook so there had to have been the occasional trial between Blood Spirit forces and other Clans, rare as they may be.

Not particularly. A lot of the stuff in the original three Clan sourcebooks runs against the grain of material published since- things like the Free Guilds, no mention of the Bears not using the ASF pilot phenotype, and so on. A lot had yet to be codified about the Clans, and for the majority of the Clans all we knew about them was their name and totem, right up until the publication of the Clan Field Manuals.

At the time of publication for the Wolf Clan Sourcebook there was nothing about the Blood Spirits being isolationists, so the Wolfman doesn't really register as unique. Now we know different; the Spirits were rarely seen by other Clans, much less engaged by them or trading with them aside from the Burrocks, Snow Ravens, and Fire Mandrills. The Absorbtion War was the first time in a century that the presence of the Spirits really registered beyond those three.
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SteveRestless

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #44 on: 22 February 2012, 18:35:03 »
thats the second time lately I've seen the Free Guilds mentioned. Which book would I find them in?
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Stormfury

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #45 on: 22 February 2012, 19:23:08 »
There's really not much information about them. Supposedly they are some sort of independant organisation entrusted with managing assets in the Homeworlds that do not belong to any of the Clans; the sound like they're just mercantile, though. Obviously this does not jive with the depictions of the Clans, who would not tolerate the presence of such a thing.

There will be a bit about them in the Wolf and Falcon SBs and apparently again in Warriors of Kerensky. However, per the word of Herb: "In character, Focht probably messed that bit up. Out of character, we dropped the notion."
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SteveRestless

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #46 on: 23 February 2012, 18:40:15 »
Well, the reason I ask is that in my AU (Divergence: Clan Hegemony) the clans are a bit more unified, and a bit less hard on their lower castes.  Something like the free guilds might work well in there.  Right now I've got the Diamond Sharks and Snow Ravens conducting most of the logistics.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Raven Claw

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #47 on: 24 February 2012, 17:51:42 »
another comforting feature about the Battletech universe is that it is always full of surprises.
I remember in the original star league tech readout how it said that mechs like the Exterminator
and Flashman, despite being really effective at what they did. they went the way of the void.
They were a liability of their own awesomeness.  In the first succession war they were always
used in the front lines and everyone made them priority targets.  Most believed we would never see them again.
And then almost 300 years later here comes Com Star ready to take on the Clans 
with thousands of pristine Star League era mechs!! 

So fear not if your beloved "unmentionable omnimech name here" seems like it is all but gone.
Someday an exceptional circumstance might bring them back to existence once more  [drool]
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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #48 on: 25 February 2012, 15:40:39 »
They would strip it bare, of anything of use, metal can be recycled, if a CT was cored or a Head Capped, the rest would be salvaged.
CT Coring means the Armor & Legs etc etc can be stripped for salvage.
Head capping is easy fix and entire mech usable after new cockpit installed.

Quote
The only thing I think would negate any salvage would be a fusion overload, Uncommon, and even ammo explosions unless the cascade would leave some usable parts to salvage. 
Fusion Overload ?  If you mean 3 Engine hits that is quite repairable.
If you mean optional "stackpole" rule, well, that is something different.
A Non-Cased Ammo Explosion counts as a Total-Destruction w/o any Salvage at all IIRC.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #49 on: 25 February 2012, 15:51:13 »
Given that we're talking about Clan mechs, an unCASEd ammo explosion isn't really a factor.
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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #50 on: 25 February 2012, 19:57:08 »
Given that we're talking about Clan mechs, an unCASEd ammo explosion isn't really a factor.
Tell that to the Guillotine-IIC.
That said I thought someone above had mentioned different tiers of clan mechs & they do have some SLDF holdovers that might have some uncased locations.
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pensiveswetness

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #51 on: 01 January 2018, 10:25:56 »
It's been a long time... ATM I'm prepping for a new campaign that is clan-based, starting several years before Operation Revival. The ideal is a free floating trinary initially based from an existing cluster and created from, initially, salvage and Brian-caste units. My question is, if some units i choose (or roll, using various RATS at my disposal), if i roll a SLDF design (regular or Royal), how did the clans repair these units where the source material from these units no longer exists (because they are in the IS, the SLDF-in-Exile factory no longer exists, etc.)? Looking at the SO repair tables, it makes me want to make the items availability as X and requires the manufacture modifier to any repair rolls. glancing at Madcap's wonderful OR:3067 doesn't provide the answers i seek either, sadly. Does that seem to be a good reason why SLDF units in Clan TOE's to be viewed publically as respected and privately as surat bait (as well as probably littered with critical hits and structural damage)?

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #52 on: 02 January 2018, 08:33:29 »
Its something not addressed but . . .

In those Brian Cache spare parts were stored along with the mechs.  In fact some of the designs, like IIRC Highlanders, were just reassembled from the parts that were stored.  So, that IS ERLL is damaged?  You might have one in storage that is three hundred years old, put up when Kerensky decommissioned the majority of the SLDF.  Or it could be in storage from a duel where Khan Jerome Winson wrecked someone's Crockett or a more recent salvage attempt.

Another solution would be that they used Clan built weapons, either early Clan period weapons (those lighter weapons described in TRO3050) or regular Clan weapons that make the mechs resemble something like the Warhammer C or Marauder C.  It would easily explain how easy it was for the Clan techs to slap Clan weapons on the IS designs- imagine facing a Marauder 2R (C).  Sure the design is 2 tons light, but its a decent fighter.  Additionally we see in designs such as the Arctic Fox some handwaving for its Clan produced ES to have IS properties . . .
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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #53 on: 02 January 2018, 23:17:56 »
Given that our 20th/21st Century technology has grown by leaps and bounds since this gaming system and fluff were created, would not most dropships/jumpships/warships/space assets and planet bound bases have 3-D printers for making repairs?

Insofar as retired 'mech designs, after productions halts and the remaining units relegated to second-line units, once those individual units were heavily damaged for the umpteenth time, as in THX-1138, I can see where some actuarial ran the paperwork up the chain to scrap those 'mechs.  The 'mech comes in, Cooter winces as he checks out the damage.  He mumbles something like 'poor old girl', because due to orders, he must strip it down.  Any remaining weapons are pulled out along with other components and added to stockpiles.  The remaining framework and armor would be removed, sorted, and sent to the smelters to be recycled.

Working in government, I have seen similar retirements of equipment and software.  As long as the 'leader' is full of themselves, functionaries can ram all kinds of poor decisions through the system.   

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #54 on: 02 January 2018, 23:24:50 »
Given that our 20th/21st Century technology has grown by leaps and bounds since this gaming system and fluff were created, would not most dropships/jumpships/warships/space assets and planet bound bases have 3-D printers for making repairs?

No, future of the 80s.  They also don't have WiFi.
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JadedFalcon

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #55 on: 03 January 2018, 22:07:48 »
No, future of the 80s.  They also don't have WiFi.

To be fair, William Gibson put wifi in Mona Lisa Overdrive. But cellphones were still Star Trek stuff.

Insofar as retired 'mech designs, after productions halts and the remaining units relegated to second-line units, once those individual units were heavily damaged for the umpteenth time, as in THX-1138, I can see where some actuarial ran the paperwork up the chain to scrap those 'mechs.  The 'mech comes in, Cooter winces as he checks out the damage.  He mumbles something like 'poor old girl', because due to orders, he must strip it down.  Any remaining weapons are pulled out along with other components and added to stockpiles.  The remaining framework and armor would be removed, sorted, and sent to the smelters to be recycled.

I like the idea, and have argued something similar before about cycling early front line mechs into Brian Caches, but was told nope by someone with alleged behind-curtain insight and/or developer credits.

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #56 on: 04 January 2018, 07:03:48 »
Which is funny b/c its not how recent material depicts things.  To offset material losses in the Refusal War, both the Falcons & Wolves dipped into their stockpiles of mechs.  I also want to say there is some other specific fluff for a mech's TRO entry saying another Clan was doing it as well.

Heck, the Spirits at one point traded warships with the Ravens, a notoriously small mech force Clan, for old SL & Clan battlemechs they had in storage.
Colt Ward
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Warship

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #57 on: 04 January 2018, 22:44:52 »
Which is funny b/c its not how recent material depicts things.  To offset material losses in the Refusal War, both the Falcons & Wolves dipped into their stockpiles of mechs.  I also want to say there is some other specific fluff for a mech's TRO entry saying another Clan was doing it as well.

Heck, the Spirits at one point traded warships with the Ravens, a notoriously small mech force Clan, for old SL & Clan battlemechs they had in storage.

Now, there is something.  According lore, the Spirits trained their warriors to a higher standard than the other Clans.  But, (due to incompetent leadership, IMHO, remember, my call sign is Warship...) they traded a number of warships for 'mechs.  By that action, Spirit forces were not as skilled as listed, forcing them to cannibalize their stocks of older equipment.  Or, did their over-generosity when the Clans were new use up those stocks?

Colt Ward

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Re: Clan repairs and salvage efforts
« Reply #58 on: 04 January 2018, 22:59:31 »
They made that trade after 50-100 years from the founding IIRC.

The Spirits had spent that time being leeched by Burrock backed bandits as well as losing out on the best economic enclaves.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."