Poll

So if we gotta retcon, how far back do we go?

All the way back (2012 and sooner)
82 (22.7%)
Early Spaceflight (2013-2397)
11 (3%)
Age of War (2398-2569)
15 (4.2%)
Star League (2570-2779)
10 (2.8%)
Kerensky's Exodus (2780-2785)
6 (1.7%)
First Succession War (2786-2829)
3 (0.8%)
Second Succession War (2830-2865)
0 (0%)
Third Succession War (2866-3025)
11 (3%)
Fourth Succession War (3026-3029)
10 (2.8%)
Post-Fourth War (3030-3048)
10 (2.8%)
Early Clan Invasion (3049-3052)
19 (5.3%)
Late Clan Invasion (3053-3062)
9 (2.5%)
FedCom Civil War (3063-3067)
11 (3%)
Jihad (3068-3085)
23 (6.4%)
Republic Era (3086-3130)
21 (5.8%)
Dark Age (3131-3150)
25 (6.9%)
NEVER! YOU CAN RETCON MY UNIVERSE WHEN YOU PRY THE DICE FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!
95 (26.3%)

Total Members Voted: 361

Voting closed: 31 October 2012, 17:39:19

Author Topic: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?  (Read 36455 times)

HABeas2

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Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« on: 19 September 2012, 17:39:19 »
Hello,

So, this is another fun poll for my curiosity (and yours). Suppose a retcon (retroactive continuity change) was inevitable, had to be done for some reason in the BattleTech universe. How far back in the setting would you--as a BattleTech player and general fan--consider the changes to be acceptable? Would changes made as far back as the present day be an acceptable retcon point, with the entire setting redesigned around the changes (whatever they might be), or would changes made only be acceptable in the closer time period, such as tweaking the outcome of the Jihad or Dark Age settings)?

Note: This is not a discussion of where the universe would be set, time-wise, but where a significant change in the in-universe history occurs. The story might stay, for instance in the 3090s, but history books record a different history from what the last 25 years of game products have shown since the point of the retcon.

Also note: The retcon in question is not defined here, but must be significant in nature--an alliance that didn't exist before or fails at a different point; a tech item that develops differently; a war goes differently; that kind of thing. A minor change--such as a single personality of minor note marries a different person or dies mysteriously, or the colors of a flag are different, or a specific model of 'Mech is never made--simply won't merit such an impact.

Feel free to discuss, but you all get just the one vote to say when--in universe--a significant retcon might be acceptable to you, the player.

Polls close on Halloween.

Thank you,

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Col.Hengist

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #1 on: 19 September 2012, 17:55:52 »
This is a hard decision.i like them all except our current time. I voted early clan invasion probably because i used to get my ass handed to my by early clanners.
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twycross

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #2 on: 19 September 2012, 18:02:02 »
Personally, I'm of dual opinions on this.

On one side, I love the game just as it is. I've been playing sine '86 and am a stalwart in terms of seeing things continue like they have been.

On the other side, there's a part of me that wishes for an "ancient history" retcon, so some of the present day (circa 2012) technology can influence the "present day" (circa 3090+) technology. Imagine hacking a 'Mech with a RotS or Star League level iPhone? ;)
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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #3 on: 19 September 2012, 18:03:48 »
simple

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #4 on: 19 September 2012, 18:16:24 »
 :o
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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #5 on: 19 September 2012, 18:16:31 »
I dont like the Dark Age stuff, it was a Wizkids things. Battletech has surivied the Dark Age, use some of the stuff from it, but different history of the future.
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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #6 on: 19 September 2012, 18:18:40 »
First I looked for the "Why bother, I don't demand rigourous internal consistency from a beer and pretzels universe".

Then I decided the nature of the retcon would have to determine the retcon needed, if any. For example, as much as it pains me, you could probably lose House Marik altogether, and have an agressive & competant Capellan state on the Lyran border, without really changing anything in terms of game history, other than the unit names involved in battles. Such a retcon could take place any time from before the founding of the Great Houses, to the 1st SW, without really changing the outcomes (except reducing the number of purple 'Mechs in the game). If you wanted to retcon the Clans out of existance, it'd have to be post Amaris Civil War, and so on.

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #7 on: 19 September 2012, 18:19:49 »
If you gotta do it, go back as far as you need to make it work, no sense in doing it half-way.
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Azriel Sukhanov

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #8 on: 19 September 2012, 18:23:00 »
I think the point that offers the best set of possibilities is the Star League.  You can still say that all of the implemented technology in the game is advanced Star League gear.  You still have a long way to go with the timeline as well, and can still expand from that Star League technology point.

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #9 on: 19 September 2012, 18:25:05 »
If you gotta do it, go back as far as you need to make it work, no sense in doing it half-way.

I agree.  O0

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Southern Coyote

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #10 on: 19 September 2012, 18:26:03 »
I'm of the opinion that if needs fixing, go back as far as necessary to fix it.  If that means essentially hitting a rest button and building everything from the ground up again, go for it.  I'm not so attached to my factions as to say "I'll quit playing the game entirely" if that happens.

But, on the other hand, a lot of people could and would take major retconning in a bad way.  Honestly, I appreciate you want our advice but I don't think this is a decision the community could make; and the topic is too broad to accurately judge what we want.

Siden Pryde

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #11 on: 19 September 2012, 18:51:47 »
+1 for going as far back as needed.  It is not like things haven't been retconed in before (at least, I consider things like Primitive tech as retcons), so if there is a problem that needs fixing, then fix it when it works best to.

But, on the other hand, a lot of people could and would take major retconning in a bad way.  Honestly, I appreciate you want our advice but I don't think this is a decision the community could make; and the topic is too broad to accurately judge what we want.
However, this also needs to be considered.

Krimsonholt

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #12 on: 19 September 2012, 18:57:08 »
Maybe some major retcon in the Star League, Republic, and Dark Age that does not affect the newer products, fiction, sourcebooks that Catalyst has already delivered.
If something really needs a major overhaul (rules, technology, or anything that has to do with the traditional five houses), then just make it a few centuries into the future.
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Lt Dan

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #13 on: 19 September 2012, 19:18:53 »
I agree with Southern Coyote... if you need to fix it, where ever it is do so... but really, is it worth it?  What's wrong with inconsistency?  Leaves the player groups options as to directions their games go and leave writers options to build/deconstruct old material.  That is not to say I would expect this to become the norm.  Consistency is important - but the old stuff that doesn't sit with the new could be acceptable.

It is only a game for all that...

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #14 on: 19 September 2012, 19:55:28 »
I don't know all the new stuff, I'm a 3025 Hardliner so the first Clan setting is reasonable and a has a good story but what I heard and what I read about the modern things is nothing what I like. In my opinion too many changes in a short time.
Changes are necassary and time goes on so please make sure that every reset, every change is really necessary and not only for making money. Investigate and check every step you plan and do what you have to do with the best result.
I agree with others here: If it's worth doing it's worth doing it all the way not half-way!
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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #15 on: 19 September 2012, 20:05:24 »
FedCom Civil War period. That's when the IS fleets started getting wiped out just when they were finally getting back on their proverbial feet. Stop that there, and stay the course during the Jihad, and we can keep the same story without crippling the WarShip fleets.
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Damage Inc.

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #16 on: 19 September 2012, 20:24:48 »
If you have to do it, start from scratch.

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #17 on: 19 September 2012, 20:29:06 »
Note: This is not a discussion of where the universe would be set, time-wise, but where a significant change in the in-universe history occurs. The story might stay, for instance in the 3090s, but history books record a different history from what the last 25 years of game products have shown since the point of the retcon. 

I'd like to request an example of the scale your talking about.

I like retcons that smooth things & correct complications, not completely change them, if that makes sense.

A good retcon (to me) could go back as far as you want, while a bad retcon I wouldn't want at all.

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Charlie Tango

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #18 on: 19 September 2012, 20:34:00 »

I don't see that you would be able to do a significant retcon of this nature after 25+ years without throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

If you're needing to change things that much, make a new game.
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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #19 on: 19 September 2012, 20:34:25 »
I am disturbed that the word RETCON is even being mentioned in this sort of fan poll.   >:(
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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #20 on: 19 September 2012, 20:56:40 »
PErsonally, I don't see the point in a retcon.
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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #21 on: 19 September 2012, 21:15:18 »
I'm not in favor of Retcon in sense of changing history that was already established.  Fixing typos and mistakes made in early products is bit differient, such as Great House Books's tales of unit historys.  Regiments hitting certain place for grand battle that was suppose to be certain year, then come find out they weren't formed yet.  Etc, its errant, but also its form Retcon. Fixing stuff like that is fine as far I'm concern.

However, if anything could be adjusted with RetCon, its the Age of War.  I know Catalyst wants gets going with time line with limited resources its has, i'm all for that.  However, there some serious problems with continum that far back.   Retcon that would include missing technologies.  We could use, for sake of perhap people who be interesting in playing in those wicked early eras have equipment which would logically should have exist back then.   Like guided missiles, which would have had similar BAR limitation like the Rifles (Cannons) which did exist in those earlier eras.  LRMs / SRMs were those type missiles aren't true guided one.   I thought it was bizzare there weren't any signs of those "primitive"  weapons being used by Terran Alliance factions fighting for control of Terra.   There was suppose to be Nuclear Shield system from Cripplin station, i'd imagine they'd have guided missiles back then.  That kind of Retcon i'd like see.

As for the present and oncoming later part Dark Age, timeline as whole should be left alone.  Too much work was put into putting it together to downgrade history we know to a miss-reported events.

P.S. I'd like have Warship fleets not crippled, but unfortunately this way it is now.  :-[   
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William J. Pennington

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #22 on: 19 September 2012, 21:21:37 »
I'm torn. A far back retcon to eliminate warships as a viable military platform (the drop ship becomes the biggest thing, jump ships simply too valuable, fragile, fighters too powerful to make warship investment worthwhile)..but fiction wise, but retcon away the Republic and Dark Age.

Of course, new technology or simply new military observations that warships arent worth the cost and get wiped out can do that trick. So, that retcon isn't needed.

And heck, as for the Republic, who needs to retcon? Jump forward, have it collapse as a bad idea, and deliver wonderful fan service by long painful death scenes of every Republic unit or leader, where every turn of fortune or break goes against them.

Simple version: Retcon it by having Devlin Stone / whoever he really is come out of the shower, talking about a wierd dream he had, then snuggles up to Katherine Steiner-Davion. Victor Davion starts wearing a cowboy hat for some reason. Cue Dallas theme music. (Lots of potential there to give the Fed Suns Civil war more hillbilly flavor.)

Simple retcon: find/ replace every term referring to House Marik with 'doorstop'.

Even simpler: find replace ever term referring to House Lia with 'Anamaniacs.'

Some of these I'm serious about, others, not so much.

An early retcon to wipe out technologies that slow down the game, or alter how they resolve to speed up the game (good bye cluster chart)..yeah, I'm cool with that. or advance it and make them go away. 


HABeas2

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #23 on: 19 September 2012, 22:24:33 »
Hello,

I am disturbed that the word RETCON is even being mentioned in this sort of fan poll.   >:(

It's kind of the point, so... deal with it.

Thank you,

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #24 on: 19 September 2012, 22:47:00 »
I say right back to the present day. Add things we know from the last 25 years of real word history. Technology updates to things. I love the game and the universe, but some of the 'Future of the 80's' business bothers me some times, especially in older stories. I don't see any real reason for a major change in how the events of the BTU as we know it went down. Oh, some tweaking here and there would be good, but major events and the main wars can still happen. Even the 'Mad max' feel of the late succession wars can be done if the writers put a bit of work into it.
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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #25 on: 19 September 2012, 23:10:49 »
COLD DEAD HANDS!

Nah, but I'm actually a fan of the "fill in what's missing" kind of stuff. Or brushing aside the "that's some guy's perspective in-universe and he was wrong".

Stuff that adds to the universe works best, organic kinds of changes. Just don't do the Advance of Zeta route that tried to fill in 0084-0086 so much that the machines that were supposed to be top of the line in Zeta in 0086 look like junkyard rejects in terms of performance and history.

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #26 on: 19 September 2012, 23:17:36 »
First I looked for the "Why bother, I don't demand rigourous internal consistency from a beer and pretzels universe".

 ???

tries to imagine how much damage would be caused if we got one copy of every Battletech product, bundled them together and dropped it on the head of an Atlas (from about 5-6 hexes up) ?

 :)

not bad for a beer and pretzels game - imagine how much more stuff we could get if they went from beer and pretzels to wine and canapés [drool]

errr ... on topic(ish), I'm voting 'Never' - sure there may be characters/'Mechs/tech/story lines/factions I don't like, but they are "mine" to don't like and you're not to take them from me  :D

looks at the voting ..... that kind of interesting, at the moment the two era with the most votes are on the opposite ends of the timeline/table: 2012 (24.3%) and never (25.7%)
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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #27 on: 20 September 2012, 00:49:09 »
Let's go all the way... 

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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #28 on: 20 September 2012, 01:13:52 »
I voted Age of War for one reason only.The art for for the Unseen mus retconned all the way to their creation. Other than that, the only reason to go back that far is to clarify some minutiae in the History of the BT Universe.
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Re: Retcon Reset (Volume 1): Back Up HOW Much?
« Reply #29 on: 20 September 2012, 02:07:42 »
I voted Age of War for one reason only.The art for for the Unseen mus retconned all the way to their creation. Other than that, the only reason to go back that far is to clarify some minutiae in the History of the BT Universe.

Voted Age of War for the same reason.  Retcon Unseen and not much else.

 

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