Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon  (Read 59580 times)

glitterboy2098

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #30 on: 14 April 2013, 00:57:45 »
Compares well to a Stormcrow? Whut? No, nooooooooo - the Stormcrow Prime has two clan ER Large Lasers that it can fire all day long and not feel the heat - that outrange everything the Grand Dragon has.

yes the clan ERLL reaches 8/15/25 hexes. but the grand dragon has a ERPPC (7/14/23 hexes), and an LRM10 (7/14/21 hexes). while the clan weapon can reach a couple hexes further out, in practice the 2-4 hex range difference is not enough to alter the dynamics. the grand dragon can move as fast as a storm crow, and can dish out roughly comparable damage (10+7avg vs. 10+10), the grand dragon also has DHS allowing it to dish out damage without much of a heat blip, and they have near comparable armor protection. the reliance on an LRM for the secondary long range weapon does add a weakness, but one that can be adjusted for fairly easily.

the clan mech is slightly better in firepower and armor due mainly to a better optimized build and the use of Endo/Ferro, but not by enough to make the clan mech substantially better. the two are mostly going to come down to tactics.

martian

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #31 on: 14 April 2013, 01:02:22 »
Ive noticed none of the dragons/grand dragons (via SSW) have jump capacity, so i can't see why they are compared to the wolverine which does jump.

Because WVR-6K Wolverine, Draconis Combine model produced between 2598 and 3050, had no jump capability.

...
honestly, the 3050 Grand dragon compares well to clan mechs like the Nova and Stormcrow. the clan mechs still pack more firepower in the common configs, but those rarely have the range a grand dragon boasts. while if the clan mechs use the longer range weapons, the capabilities approach parity.

Are you really saying that DRG-5K compares well to Ryoken Prime? OmniMech with 6/9 speed and 182 points of armor which boasts two Clan ER Large Lasers (range 25 hexes, damage 10) and has three Clan ER Mediums (which are almost as good as the IS Large Lasers)? Or Nova A with its twin Clan ER PPCs?

Does any one know why the Dragons ML face backwards?
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Diablo48

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #32 on: 14 April 2013, 01:30:00 »
yes the clan ERLL reaches 8/15/25 hexes. but the grand dragon has a ERPPC (7/14/23 hexes), and an LRM10 (7/14/21 hexes). while the clan weapon can reach a couple hexes further out, in practice the 2-4 hex range difference is not enough to alter the dynamics. the grand dragon can move as fast as a storm crow, and can dish out roughly comparable damage (10+7avg vs. 10+10), the grand dragon also has DHS allowing it to dish out damage without much of a heat blip, and they have near comparable armor protection. the reliance on an LRM for the secondary long range weapon does add a weakness, but one that can be adjusted for fairly easily.

the clan mech is slightly better in firepower and armor due mainly to a better optimized build and the use of Endo/Ferro, but not by enough to make the clan mech substantially better. the two are mostly going to come down to tactics.

This does still leave the Stormcrow with the advantage, but it is definitely not as insurmountable as most match ups you could run into which is about as close to a ringing endorsement as you are going to get from an IS design (even the mighty Thunder Hawk cannot do any better in the face of designs like the Hellstar).  That said, in practice the Stormcrow is still going to win the vast majority of duels due to its superior Clan pilot which gives it a tremendous advantage at long range even if it chooses not to close in to use its vastly superior medium to short range damage potential which is how it would really get the kill in most situations.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #33 on: 14 April 2013, 01:35:00 »
This does still leave the Stormcrow with the advantage, but it is definitely not as insurmountable as most match ups you could run into which is about as close to a ringing endorsement as you are going to get from an IS design (even the mighty Thunder Hawk cannot do any better in the face of designs like the Hellstar).  That said, in practice the Stormcrow is still going to win the vast majority of duels due to its superior Clan pilot which gives it a tremendous advantage at long range even if it chooses not to close in to use its vastly superior medium to short range damage potential which is how it would really get the kill in most situations.

Even with similar skills, the Stormcrow is more likely to win..which is fine, looking at the BV difference.

martian

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #34 on: 14 April 2013, 01:36:14 »
yes the clan ERLL reaches 8/15/25 hexes. but the grand dragon has a ERPPC (7/14/23 hexes), and an LRM10 (7/14/21 hexes). while the clan weapon can reach a couple hexes further out, in practice the 2-4 hex range difference is not enough to alter the dynamics. the grand dragon can move as fast as a storm crow, and can dish out roughly comparable damage (10+7avg vs. 10+10), the grand dragon also has DHS allowing it to dish out damage without much of a heat blip, and they have near comparable armor protection. the reliance on an LRM for the secondary long range weapon does add a weakness, but one that can be adjusted for fairly easily.

the clan mech is slightly better in firepower and armor due mainly to a better optimized build and the use of Endo/Ferro, but not by enough to make the clan mech substantially better. the two are mostly going to come down to tactics.

I'd like to say that I disagree.

Range 25-24
Ryoken can fire while Dragon can't return fire.

Range 23-16
Both 'Mechs are in long range for each other, but since Ryoken has started to fire sooner and started with more armor, I would say that Ryoken is in better shape

Range 15
Ryoken's ER Large Lasers are in medium range and Ryoken opened with its three ER Mediums, while Grand Dragon still fires only its ER PPC and LRMs.

- so obviously Grand Dragon will try to avoid fighting in medium and close range, since it's the place where Ryoken has much greater firepower and where it could crush Grand Dragon easily.
- I don't think that most BattleTech battles take place on salt flats, but usually there is some wooded hex or hill for cover which Ryoken can use to limit its damage while closing
- Ryoken can even afford to take some hits since it's only the Grand Dragon which has explosive ammo to worry about. So not even protracted fighting in the long range can solves something for Dragon, since every hit it takes means higher possibility that it explodes.
The difference in armor is 182 points (Ryoken) against 160 points (Grand Dragon). I thinks it's better than "near comparable armor protection".
« Last Edit: 14 April 2013, 01:40:40 by martian »

Diablo48

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #35 on: 14 April 2013, 13:48:39 »
I'd like to say that I disagree.

Range 25-24
Ryoken can fire while Dragon can't return fire.

Range 23-16
Both 'Mechs are in long range for each other, but since Ryoken has started to fire sooner and started with more armor, I would say that Ryoken is in better shape

Range 15
Ryoken's ER Large Lasers are in medium range and Ryoken opened with its three ER Mediums, while Grand Dragon still fires only its ER PPC and LRMs.

- so obviously Grand Dragon will try to avoid fighting in medium and close range, since it's the place where Ryoken has much greater firepower and where it could crush Grand Dragon easily.
- I don't think that most BattleTech battles take place on salt flats, but usually there is some wooded hex or hill for cover which Ryoken can use to limit its damage while closing
- Ryoken can even afford to take some hits since it's only the Grand Dragon which has explosive ammo to worry about. So not even protracted fighting in the long range can solves something for Dragon, since every hit it takes means higher possibility that it explodes.
The difference in armor is 182 points (Ryoken) against 160 points (Grand Dragon). I thinks it's better than "near comparable armor protection".

Ok, let's try it this way.  What better matchups between 'Mechs of similar speed and/or weight are their during the initial invasion?  I for one cannot think of any when you have things like Marauders vs. Timber Wolves which give the Clan 'Mech every advantage, so the Dragon vs. Stormcrow Prime is about as good as the IS can hope for.


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glitterboy2098

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #36 on: 14 April 2013, 14:22:11 »
in regards to armor, while the difference in mass is almost a ton, in practice this is spread out, so the stormcrow only has a couple of points difference in each location. not enough to demonstrate a substantial advantage.

and things like pilot skill, terrain, and how one fights are intangibles, situational variables.. which is what i meant by 'comes down to tactics'.
eliminating those situational variables, and looking just at the defined characteristics, the two designs are fairly closely matched. the IS mech has a slight disadvantage due to techbase and a less optimized design, but not enough to say for certain one will beat the other before getting into situational conditions. certainly it matches up much closer than a typical IS/clan comparison for mechs of that era.

martian

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #37 on: 14 April 2013, 14:31:59 »
Ok, let's try it this way.  What better matchups between 'Mechs of similar speed and/or weight are their during the initial invasion?  I for one cannot think of any when you have things like Marauders vs. Timber Wolves which give the Clan 'Mech every advantage, so the Dragon vs. Stormcrow Prime is about as good as the IS can hope for.
Yeah, that's it - it's as good as the IS can hope for, and it's still sadly insufficient.

But some IS 'Mechs might stand a chance:
AWS-9M Awesome against Clan Heavies (since it has maxed out armor and three ER PPCs; it can dump that one ton of Streak ammo to turn itself into all-energy 'Mech).
Or CES-3R Caesar (its combo of Gauss Rifle and ER PPC is at least roughly comparable to Clan armament).


in regards to armor, while the difference in mass is almost a ton, in practice this is spread out, so the stormcrow only has a couple of points difference in each location. not enough to demonstrate a substantial advantage.

and things like pilot skill, terrain, and how one fights are intangibles, situational variables.. which is what i meant by 'comes down to tactics'.
eliminating those situational variables, and looking just at the defined characteristics, the two designs are fairly closely matched. the IS mech has a slight disadvantage due to techbase and a less optimized design, but not enough to say for certain one will beat the other before getting into situational conditions. certainly it matches up much closer than a typical IS/clan comparison for mechs of that era.

I guess that this is where we disagree - I consider the disadvantage much greater than "slightly".

Diablo48

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #38 on: 14 April 2013, 14:51:37 »
Yeah, that's it - it's as good as the IS can hope for, and it's still sadly insufficient.

But some IS 'Mechs might stand a chance:
AWS-9M Awesome against Clan Heavies (since it has maxed out armor and three ER PPCs; it can dump that one ton of Streak ammo to turn itself into all-energy 'Mech).
Or CES-3R Caesar (its combo of Gauss Rifle and ER PPC is at least roughly comparable to Clan armament).

The concentrated damage and increased mobility of comparable Clan designs makes those fights more lopsided than the Grand Dragon vs. Stormcrow.

Quote
I guess that this is where we disagree - I consider the disadvantage much greater than "slightly".

Remember that the Dragon also gets a bit more IS to balance things out due to its slightly larger frame so the total protection is roughly comparable.  Ammo crits are also not a huge concern because the Stormcrow lacks a good critseeking weapon to find them, so the only real difference is the difference between the XLEs they use.


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martian

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #39 on: 14 April 2013, 15:00:34 »
So if the Grand Dragon is comparable to Ryoken, as said there, why don't we try it? Random map (of any size you prefer). I will take Stormcrow, you will take the Grand Dragon. After all, you are saying it's only a matter of tactics etc.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #40 on: 15 April 2013, 02:20:35 »
I like he 3025 build of the Grand Dragon.  Dropping an AC/5 for a PPC was always a good thing for a DCMC mech.  The LRMs allowed me me to do indirect and the PPC was the "Big Stick" for direct fire.  Had to watch the heat gauge if I got close and started using the MLs.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #41 on: 15 April 2013, 04:37:54 »
I miss two points in the writeup:

1) The Dragon's reputation. As has been pointed out, even within the Combine people intellectually understand that the Dragon (the -1N in particular) isn't a top performer. See Theodore Kurita's reaction. At the same time, it's held in high esteem because of its name and its status as a standard design of House Kurita. Many unit commanders are apparently supplied the Dragon solely because of the status it represents.

2) The queer fact that the DCMS's standard "heavy" can easily outpace their standard "scout" (the 4/6/4 Panther) always irks me. The Panther is no scout, it's a budget fire support 'Mech and even performs decently here; but it sucks as a scout. The Dragon meanwhile has only slightly more firepower than a Panther but actually has a better ground speed. People are often misled into classifying both of these standard DCMS 'Mechs wrongly based on their weight class.

Good speed and long-range firepower mean that the Dragon is a rather good "bully" - a scout hunter or pursuit 'Mech. The AC/2 version is even better here, but that's my personal opinion and I like the AC/2 a lot for its range (in 3025).
The Dragon's somewhat anaemic firepower makes it less valuable as a flanker or line breaker than its mass and armor suggest. The rear-firing laser is a waste of tonnage - this design tries to be too many things at once, consequently falling short in each role.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #42 on: 15 April 2013, 06:54:48 »
2) The queer fact that the DCMS's standard "heavy" can easily outpace their standard "scout" (the 4/6/4 Panther) always irks me. The Panther is no scout, it's a budget fire support 'Mech and even performs decently here; but it sucks as a scout. The Dragon meanwhile has only slightly more firepower than a Panther but actually has a better ground speed. People are often misled into classifying both of these standard DCMS 'Mechs wrongly based on their weight class.

Don't get me started on weight class fallacies. Really, I think that all got started way back when with the construction rules opening with basically "first of all, pick a target weight total..." -- and the importance of tonnage vs. actual capabilities has been overrated ever since. ;)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #43 on: 15 April 2013, 10:39:39 »
I myself have never fielded a Dragon despite playing under the DC name. The Dragon tends to be too fast for my other mechs and or can't bring the firepower of its other lance mates. Something to be desired perhaps.
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Ian Sharpe

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #44 on: 15 April 2013, 12:11:10 »
Not a big fan, although it looks awesome. 

Heregar

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #45 on: 15 April 2013, 18:21:12 »
Just to be clear the Panther is not a DCMS scout mech the Jenner and Spider are. The Panther is a direct suppot mech and hunter mech, it is not a scout.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #46 on: 15 April 2013, 19:57:59 »
Just to be clear the Panther is not a DCMS scout mech the Jenner and Spider are. The Panther is a direct suppot mech and hunter mech, it is not a scout.

The Panther is the lightest heavy mech in the BattleTech universe.

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #47 on: 15 April 2013, 23:24:48 »
The Panther is the lightest heavy mech in the BattleTech universe.

You might consider it a possible light mech hunter.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #48 on: 16 April 2013, 18:32:46 »
Everytime I've had one fired against me its been extremely effective. I'd guess its because of the thin armor on most fast 'mechs, but I seem to take internal damage from that single rear mounted laser every time.

That's because the laser is mounted near eye level for any backstabbers...

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mitchberthelson

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #49 on: 18 April 2013, 14:01:54 »
Not a big fan, although it looks awesome.

I too love many versions of its look.

Unfortunately, it fails at its intended mission.

The original TRO: 3025 labels it as a linebreaker 'Mech designed for blitzkrieg assaults, with the thick rear armor and rear weaponry intended to discourage pursuit after it smashes through....so it doesn't have to turn around. The low heat weapons and piles of ammo are there to allow sustained fire during a rapid advance.

The problem is that every time I attempted to use it for its intended purpose, over the course of over 12 years of play, it failed. Always.

The frontal armor was too fragile to shrug the concentrated fire that a linebreaker 'Mech faces and its firepower was too anemic and had too many minimum range issues to actually threaten comparable enemy machines when it was used as supposedly intended. Then there were the "torso bomb" issues, compounded by the thin front armor on the side torsos. Its speed was not enough to prevent lighter machines with lower C-Bill costs like the Dervish or Griffin from tearing it to pieces one on one. In the old days before BV, this was baffling. However, the speed did enable the brutal charges and other physical attacks it was supposedly famous for and I smile to see that "Dragon bowling" briefly became a thing in MWO during beta. :)

I tried with the Dragon, I really tried. The Grand Dragon resolved some of the issues, but was still too fragile in many cases and likewise ended up shredded, legged, or torso-bombed in short order (though it took slightly longer to die and did a bit more damage). Even the 3050 advanced-tech version couldn't really stand up to much pounding, especially with the XL.

As a bully, scout hunter, or support unit, it does fine at most tech levels. Just don't believe the hype about it holding up as the centerpiece of a banzai charge into enemy territory unless you're piloting one of the newer, post-3050 versions that significantly increase firepower or armor. Even large numbers of them just crumple or explode too fast, especially if they take hits from the sides as they would when blowing past enemy defenders. They can dish out one or two spectacular charge attacks, but that's about it. Again, the newest versions are pretty cool, but anything 3050 and older just doesn't cut it in the intended role.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #50 on: 18 April 2013, 16:07:56 »
the Dragon is a very hard 'mech to describe...... the high shoulders, extended torso, and single cannon arm seem make for a somewhat disjointed design. it achieves its goal though, being vaguely imposing while providing all forward weapons with sufficient space to aim.

the feet have always stood out to me design-wise as they have "toes" along every corner of the foot and provide the 'mech with  abroad footprint to spread it's weight across. still, it lacked for firepower even in the succession wars, but weight it carries as a status symbol will probably carry it forward for a long time to come....as the 'mech of choice for political commanders not fighting from the front, at least. I can only hope the Combine sees fit to add this to the roster of 'mechs upgraded to advanced omni designs to show their recovery after the jihad....i never liked the Black hawk-KU, trying to fight the clans by imitating  their work irks me....
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #51 on: 19 April 2013, 12:25:45 »
2) The queer fact that the DCMS's standard "heavy" can easily outpace their standard "scout" (the 4/6/4 Panther) always irks me. The Panther is no scout, it's a budget fire support 'Mech and even performs decently here; but it sucks as a scout. The Dragon meanwhile has only slightly more firepower than a Panther but actually has a better ground speed. People are often misled into classifying both of these standard DCMS 'Mechs wrongly based on their weight class.

I thought the Jenner and Spider were the key recon designs? Still, your point is well made. That Panther is certainly no scout, but a nice bit of cheap fire support. Especially in terrain that a tank might find problematic.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #52 on: 19 April 2013, 12:39:34 »
I thought the Jenner and Spider were the key recon designs? Still, your point is well made. That Panther is certainly no scout, but a nice bit of cheap fire support. Especially in terrain that a tank might find problematic.

At the very beginning of Wolves on the Border we see that Minobu Tetsuhara's "recon lance" is three Panthers and a single Ostscout, so I would take that as a fair example of a common DCMS recon formation in the 3020s. Panthers are cheaper, C-bill wise.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #53 on: 19 April 2013, 15:19:03 »
At the very beginning of Wolves on the Border we see that Minobu Tetsuhara's "recon lance" is three Panthers and a single Ostscout, so I would take that as a fair example of a common DCMS recon formation in the 3020s. Panthers are cheaper, C-bill wise.
Common sense suggests that the Panthers were escorts for the Ostscout, and not (primarily) scout vehicles themselves.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #54 on: 19 April 2013, 15:26:07 »
So if the Grand Dragon is comparable to Ryoken, as said there, why don't we try it? Random map (of any size you prefer). I will take Stormcrow, you will take the Grand Dragon. After all, you are saying it's only a matter of tactics etc.

I've been there and done it (albeit a long time ago) beating off a Stormcrow with a Grand Dragon.  It was part of a campaign back when operation Bulldog was the latest thing and I had an IS lance of a Wolfhound, two Centurions and a GD versus a Smoke Jaguar Star of lights and mediums.  I forget the details exactly but the Stormcrow was the biggest, longest ranged thing the clanner had so my GD went to work keeping it busy while the rest of my lance tried to bat down a Hankyu and get something remsembling parity in numbers.

It was a tough fight overall but I managed to get the clanners to retreat after taking down that Hankyu and a Koshi that got a bit too brave.  The Stormcrow was certainly having the better of the fight versus the GD, but only just as the GD was trading punches on pretty equal terms and Stormcrow didn't dare close because otherwise I'd most assuredly have concentrated all my fire on him.

In my experience, the GD is one of the few IS mechs that can hang in there against equivalent speed Clan mechs.  It's big and well armed and armoured for a 6/9 mover and develops it's best firepower at long range.  The Clanners might have some stellar long ranged guns, but it's in the medium ranges (7-15 hexes) where they crush you and you can't hope to fight back on anything like equal terms.  A fast, well armoured mech optimised more or less solely for long ranged combat can play the ranged game more or less as well as a more rounded clan mech.

Incidentally, in case you were wondering - as I recall, largely through a bit of luck and some poor decision making on my opponents part, both my centurions escaped relatively unscathed whilst my Wolfhound walked off the field with both arms and side torso sections completely gone, and only a handful of structure boxes left in the centre torso.  The GD got banged up pretty bad, but my opponent got unlucky and spread his hits all over the mech so I only suffered a small amount of internal damage
« Last Edit: 19 April 2013, 17:19:09 by Getz »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #55 on: 19 April 2013, 16:14:37 »
Common sense suggests that the Panthers were escorts for the Ostscout, and not (primarily) scout vehicles themselves.

Well, yes, as does their behavior in the novel as opposed to the Ostscout's. I just meant that, at least in regiments like the Sword of Light that could afford to maintain an Ost sensor suite, I would assume the common formation to be one designated scout with three escorts. It's more cost-efficient and ensures that valuable recon 'Mech has enough fire support to get it out of trouble.

But to at least make a token attempt to address the topic: I absolutely love the Dragon series, and it's funny - I have a really easy time using them effectively, while other people I've played with tend to get them shot to hell within a few rounds. I guess having a 'Mech as your zodiac symbol really makes the dice gods happy.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #56 on: 02 May 2013, 16:39:47 »
I recall a company on company match involving a lance of Dragons, the lead a Grand, a mixed lance of two Panthers playing Escort for a pair of scout Jenners, and a lance of three Wolverines and a somewhat Random Griffon that happened to wander into the TO&E I guess. They were facing a Davion mixture, mainly Centurions, Enforcers and Commandos, with an entirely random Vindicator.

It did not go so well for the Dracs really. The lights engaged early and off to the flank, since both commanders ordered flanking actions to the same side. The Jenners and Commandos collided (literally in one case, someone forgot that a 35 ton 7/11 did more damage in a ramming attempt then a 25 ton 6/9, it was sort of funny to watch them both spend a round getting themselves sorted out afterwards), but there were four Commandos to a pair of Jenners for two rounds, at least until the "escorting" fire support Panthers managed to come on line.

The middle of the battle shaped up pretty fast through, with the mediums all coming to get about the same time, including the Dragons, who moved like mediums after all. The thing was, the one side was slinging mainly AC/5s, with a few PPCs, but the other side had AC/10s and large lasers up the ying-yang, LRM-10s in equal measure, and enough armor to stand and deliver with a bit of maneuvering.

By round 12 most of the scouts were played out, and five of the eight were out of it, though both Panthers were still standing. Since Wolverines never seem to go down for some damn reason, all three of them were up, but all were mainly out of armor, arms and guns, being down to a smattering of lasers and a few SRMs. The Dragons were also mostly spent, most of their armor gone, most of their arm mounted weapons out of action. The oddballs were all dead, the Vindy, Griffon, and the Grand Dragon, as they all had PPCs, and that drew more than their "fair share" of fire.

By round 15 it was over mostly, the Enforcers were winchester, but still had larges, the Dragons had all lost their AC arms. The only reason they pulled it off was the two Panthers in the way back had gotten hot dice for two rounds running, and hit with all four PPC shots, dropping a pair of Centruions that were banged p already.

The general consensus was that the Dragons didn't seem to bring enough of a bang/buck ratio to the table, not without BV, people shouldn't ever ignore a Panther, and the Enforcer really was a rock solid design, so long as it was used right. The one proviso was that these guys were in a mostly open field with only moderate cover, and no one really understood the concept of indirect fire. If they had, the various LRM-10s would have had more of an impact overall, but both sides had rough LRM parity here.

Still, it was a good game overall, even though my Wolverine lance got effectively denuded way to fast!

SCC

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #57 on: 08 May 2013, 00:00:47 »
Some talk over in the XTRO:1945 thread has made me realize one possible reason why the Dragon wasn't thought well of: During the Succession Wars a lot of planets were said to regress down to 20th century tech levels, that means any locally raised/built forces to protect a planet would be equipped with BAR 5 armor, and the Dragon can't generate a cluster bigger then that

Kotetsu

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #58 on: 28 January 2014, 17:54:17 »
Added the variant from 3145 New Tech.

WarGod

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: DRG-*** Dragon/Grand Dragon
« Reply #59 on: 05 February 2014, 19:19:25 »
Decent mech actually.  A lance of grand dragons is actually pretty painful. 
A knight in shining armor is a man who has never had his metal truly tested
You're falling through the air in a Grenadier. Style went out the window long before you did.