Author Topic: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite  (Read 18718 times)

Prince of Darkness

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Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« on: 26 February 2015, 18:15:51 »
Just as a disclaimer to everyone- I really don't care about someone getting my feelings hurt. Let me know what you think in the comments of this article, even if it's just a tirade about how good I look in those express jeans of mine. I know you've been mirin'


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Hello everyone! The writer formerly-known-as-prince here, welcoming you to another protomech of the week article! Now unlike my compatriot's methods of working from the original 3060 protomechs up, I will be doing the opposite by starting at the most recent designs and working down- making some kind of wonderful double-stacked protomech article goodness.

The Greekfire really sears in the flavors.

Anyway, the protomech I have decided to writeup has quickly become one of the most difficult- the Sprite, the heaviest protomech built to date. Now this writeup wasn't hard because of it's use, but because the Sprite has undergone some of the heaviest revisions by errata and TptB. If you are not “in the know”, you can check out the thread here- I will point out all the issues in the coming paragraphs. http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,18465.msg572389.html#msg572389

The Sprite, to anyone who has not read Wars of Reaving (and why the hell have you not?) is a Society protomech built to solve one of the biggest issues the scientist cabal had- namely, how to keep it's commanders in the fight doing what they do best for several clusters of troops that were essentially castoffs. Funny enough- as the fluff remarks- using LRMs with an exhaustible ammo supply led to commanders leaving the fight too early, which coupled with the Society's pilots having poor skills meant their warriors preformed even worse. LOOK, DIAGRAMS I TOTALLY DIDN'T STEAL
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SPRITE
INTRO: ~3072
FACTIONS (3072-3075): Blood Spirits, The Society, possibly the Hell's Horses(in fluff)
FACTIONS (3085): Cloud Cobra, Stone Lion, Star Adder
WEAPONS: LRM 5 (12 shots) x4
         ARMOR                 INTERNAL   
          (9)                    (4)      Arms -> Cored: 55 pts
          / \                    / \      Legs -> Cored: 67 pts
      (6 / 30 \ 6)           (4 / 15 \ 4)  Torso -> Cored: 31 pts
         | | |                  | | |     Legs -> Destroyed: 22 pts
        (  14  )               (  8  )
                               
The base version of the Sprite should be familir to anyone reading these article, as it is basically an upgraded Gorgon with a much heavier skin. Weighing 15 tons and moving a boosted speed of 3/5/5, the base Sprite devotes an enormous amount of weight to making it as impressively armored as possible- after 1,500 KG went into it's improved/extended jump jets, over 3 and a quarter tons of armor have been applied to it's small frame, giving a Sprite the armor protection of a succession-wars era Stinger. The Sprite has an almost insane 30 points of armor across the torso with another 15 in structure behind it, making each Sprite a nightmare to kill with how much directed firepower has to be brought against them. The rest of the chassis apes this- the head in fact can take more punishment than any 'mech short of a superheavy, with 9 armor and 4 internal structure on a unit that arguably doesn't need to be heavily armored. The Sprite does loose out on it's arms and legs- the arms have 6 armor and 4 structure, while the legs are 14 and 8 respectively. Considering how “big” of a (relative) target the Sprite is, it's not hard to see how it looses out a bit on armor protection and could benefit from just a few more points to pass thresholds.

The armrament of the base Sprite is darn powerful for it's size- four LRM 5s, one in each arm and torso make each Sprite a nice walking LRM battery in themselves, and their 12 round magazine for each means hail-mary shots aren't completely out of consideration. This firepower on such a small unit is impressive, but misleading- if you were to pick one Sprite instead of two Gorgons, you would find your firepower is far more spread out (though some would say this is an advantage) and limited by firing arcs. Remember, the Gorgon's LRM 10 is in it's main gun which is considered to have a 360-degree arc, while the Sprite has half it's launchers in the torso. This can also be excacerbated by the Sprite's size- like the Gorgon, it's only considered 1 level tall, which can make returning fire an interesting proposition.

What makes a Sprite more attractive than a Gorgon? Well, with a BV of 589, two Gorgons litterally cost 1 more whole point more before pilots, so a Sprite user could easily use the unspent pilot BV for an upgrade. Better yet, you get nearly double the armor and internal structure with an arguably better movement of 3/5/5! So while some might not want to loose the main gun and get that splattered LRM fire, a jump equal to the Roc with 3 times the armor might make you wanna reconsider.

Note that the fluff questions the Hell's Horses possible capture of the design to make the Svartalfa, but also the RAT placement- 3072 has the base Sprite in the Blood Spirit's lineup on the 20th space, and the fluff did mention several designs in the hands of the Omega Galaxy. Where they got them- hook or by crook- nothing says. After the Wars of Reaving, the Sprite is available to all factions that still use protomechs, but they are all far down the RAT list.
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SPRITE 2
INTRO: ~3072
FACTIONS (3072-3075): Clan Coyote, The Society
FACTIONS (3085): None
WEAPONS: ER Large Laser
         ARMOR                 INTERNAL   
          (9)                    (4)      Arms -> Cored: 55 pts
          / \                    / \      Legs -> Cored: 68 pts
      (6 / 30 \ 6)           (4 / 15 \ 4)  Torso -> Cored: 31 pts
         | | |                  | | |     Legs -> Destroyed: 23 pts
        (  15  )               (  8  )
                               
Now, while some would describe the Sprite 2's drop of it's speed to 3/5/3 or its additional point of armor to the legs, i'm just going to point out that there now is a protomech carrying an ER Large laser in a torso mount. Please, take a moment to consider the implications of a 15 ton 'mech eating an AC/20 round and returning fire with the equivalent of a PPC.

Anyway, despite the realization that it was 500kg overweight (thus loosing the useful Light TAG from it's right arm) the Sprite 2 is still super deadly but suffers from it's own setback- like the origional, it's size. Stading only one level high and being able to only jump 3 really limits the ability of the Sprite to provide any type of supporting fire, and it's torso mount will hinder it slightly. Using one is easy- it just comes down to keeping it's range and line of fire open. Feed the Sprite 2 targets and don't be afriad if someone rushes it! He can easily tank some of the worst hits. Unfortunately, if you wanna use a Sprite 2, your choice is limited to a 3 year span with the Coyotes or their “friends” - after the Wars of Reaving the Sprite 2 disappears from the RATs completely.

By my calculations, the BV of the Sprite 2 is 590, which considering what seems to be a standalone use shouldn't be too hard to use. Since Protomechs don't make PSRs, I think you could risk making one into a good sniper.

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SPRITE 3
INTRO: ~3072
FACTIONS (3072-3075): The Society
FACTIONS (3085): None
WEAPONS: Fusillade x2, Medium chemical laser x2 (30 rounds total)
         ARMOR                 INTERNAL   
          (9)                    (4)      Arms -> Cored: 55 pts
          / \                    / \      Legs -> Cored: 67 pts
      (6 / 30 \ 6)           (4 / 15 \ 4)  Torso -> Cored: 31 pts
         | | |                  | | |     Legs -> Destroyed: 22 pts
        (  14  )               (  8  )
                               
Filling out the last of the readoutis the Sprite 3, the version that suffered the heaviest revision by TPTB. Origionally, the Sprite 3 seemed like a slapdash design meant to get every available gun to the field- all it carried was 4 Fusillade weapon systems, with 2 in the torso and 1 in each arm. Problem is, the Sprite 3 broke the rules in doing so as even the ultraheavy protos can't mount more than 1 ton in their arms. So TPTB decided to change the readout of the Sprite 3, dropping the twin arm-mounted Fusillades for Medium chemical lasers and giving each laser a 15-round magazine.
The redesign is obviously much better- Fusillades to me are supplementary weapons like an underslung grenade launcher on an assault rifle, and its typically a bad idea to base your whole armrament around a 2-shot weapon system. But with the redesigns added guns, the Sprite 3 suddenly gains added firepower that it has a chance of using- while a 3/6/9 range weapon isn't much to the clans, the Sprite 3 still moves 3/5/5 and the fusillades give it a some options. Personally I still see the configuration as very situational, but as a bodyguard for other slow-moving Society mechs like the Osteon or Savage Coyote a Sprite 3 loaded with HE rounds could be a very nice deterrent- just be wary, that by my calculations the BV should be around 670 per unit. Not bad, but also not great despite the super-low BV of the fusillades. Sadly despite any advantage the Sprite 3 now has, it goes extinct like it's sibling at the end of the Reaving wars.

And that's pretty much it for the Sprite as a whole- a neat piece with some obvious and well reasoned flaws. Unlike Greekfire who actually knows how to end an article, I'll just say that the Sprite is a very easy protomech to learn superheavy rules on- each variant has one job and it does it well, and as long as it's not treated like an assault 'mech it'll do you more than enough. Just like the Gorgon, try taking a few and see how it goes- I think you'll like your new scientist overlords.
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GreekFire

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #1 on: 26 February 2015, 20:51:08 »
Pics of the express jeans or gtfo

Awesome article, man!! Seriously. I'll definitely write my more once i get back to my computer and get in touch with my lawyer so i can sue yo plagerizing ass, mofo
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Empyrus

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #2 on: 26 February 2015, 20:59:14 »
What.
This thing's torso is almost as sturdy as the Awesome's center torso.
OK, its firepower is fraction of an Awesome's firepower but... man. Tough little bastards.
Probably should read the protomech articles again to check just how sturdy they are, for their size of course.
If one needs a lot of, umm, "human" shields, i'd imagine protos are a good choice.

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #3 on: 26 February 2015, 21:18:03 »
I was pretty down on the Fusillade when I first looked at it, but now I'm thinking that it might be worth it with certain ammo. The Improved Magnetic Pulse ammo can put a hurt on other units. It may not necessarily kill things but its going to slow them and hamper their fighting abilities. It might be worth the weight involved, so I'm kind of disappointed that the one version lost two launchers. I was kind of interested in how that might turn out.

SCC

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #4 on: 27 February 2015, 01:29:57 »
What.
This thing's torso is almost as sturdy as the Awesome's center torso.
OK, its firepower is fraction of an Awesome's firepower but... man. Tough little bastards.
Probably should read the protomech articles again to check just how sturdy they are, for their size of course.
If one needs a lot of, umm, "human" shields, i'd imagine protos are a good choice.
You have to realize that the torso on this replaces all three torso locations on a 'Mech

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #5 on: 27 February 2015, 02:11:26 »
Tough lil thing for sure!  I've never used proto's but this things more like an ultra-light mech due to its 15 tonne weight.  Great write up on this big 'ol thing and interesting to see that its still apparently in use in the Homeworld Clans.
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #6 on: 27 February 2015, 08:10:35 »
Pure freaking awesome!  It's my favorite of the bigger protos.

I'll take a clusters worth of the 1 please!

These things are little monsters.  One of them can threaten a light mech.  A star can threaten an assault.  Good luck dealing with them when the clans come back to visit!


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Empyrus

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #7 on: 27 February 2015, 08:26:42 »
You have to realize that the torso on this replaces all three torso locations on a 'Mech
Sure but that's still very tough for their size (mass). Not to mention the "near-miss" (or is it "near-hit") rolls... *shudder*

Prince of Darkness

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #8 on: 27 February 2015, 10:58:41 »
Pics of the express jeans or gtfo

Awesome article, man!! Seriously. I'll definitely write my more once i get back to my computer and get in touch with my lawyer so i can sue yo plagerizing ass, mofo

o bby

Pure freaking awesome!  It's my favorite of the bigger protos.

I'll take a clusters worth of the 1 please!

These things are little monsters.  One of them can threaten a light mech.  A star can threaten an assault.  Good luck dealing with them when the clans come back to visit!

Oh easily- the 2 especially can be real bad if it's got a screen of some kind, say several Sirens?

I was pretty down on the Fusillade when I first looked at it, but now I'm thinking that it might be worth it with certain ammo. The Improved Magnetic Pulse ammo can put a hurt on other units. It may not necessarily kill things but its going to slow them and hamper their fighting abilities. It might be worth the weight involved, so I'm kind of disappointed that the one version lost two launchers. I was kind of interested in how that might turn out.

They'd be supporters pro bono for one- and with only 8 rounds you'd probably get bad tunnel vision for what rounds you've got. On the plus side tho, if you make something similar it's BV would actually be rather low. The Fusillade is an interesting beast- it's really heavy and kinda cumbersome, but if you have the right gun (like an ER Medium laser) to be your main it could work real well. Or, a protomech carrying the Fusillade, a few AP Guss rifles, and a watchdog for support in an Un?
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #9 on: 27 February 2015, 14:56:44 »

Personally I think that the Sprite 3 revision is an improvement. It has got more endurance and the Chem lasers will work nicely with HE ammo.
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #10 on: 27 February 2015, 16:25:23 »
That's an evil unit. It turned the protomech concept from "ugly as sin and stupid looking useless units" to "can't deploy one without dirty looks from the future victims". And it is pretty... and the miniature is awesome.

  It is very hard to find problems to this unit, just compare it with the Baboon mech and you know that the mech will loose. And it could kill 3 Stingers, 3 Wasps... a Commandos... The Sprite 1 can kill a lot of light mechs. A great bargain unit for Clan armies.

 The 2 is  [face palm] [face palm] a ER Large Laser. Using range it can obliterate a ton of mechs. It can even turn the Urbanmech obsolete. Just sick. The 3 sound good too. I barely know the new weapons (the fusillade is nice IIRC) but this protomech looks like a good vector for those new toys.
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #11 on: 27 February 2015, 16:30:51 »
Nice article, Prince of Darkness!

Man, that Sprite is a hidden gem of machine.  Looking at the Companion, i'm surprised that Sprite 3 didn't show up anywhere in the 3085 options.  I know things can be substitute, but the book was done before the errant, frankly that decent machine.  Sprite 2 is nasty customer too.
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GreekFire

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #12 on: 27 February 2015, 16:59:11 »
A'ight, I said I'd write more. The Sprite...it's good, but it's different. The standard model is an interesting one; it's fills a long-ranged critseeking role that as of now no other ProtoMech has filled. Even so, I'd recommend using it at close ranges whenever possible. You've got a crapton of armor (45 point of damage to put it down through torso shots only) and decent enough maneuverability to keep up with a lot of heavy 'Mechs at that range. The longer range of the guns just makes it that much harder to run away from its sandblasting/critseeking, unlike with something like the Chrysaor. The other obvious thing I'd recommend is going nuts with the alternate munitions. A Sprite can seriously blanket an area with mines - they might not deal a lot of damage, but they can still heavily hamper an enemy force.

The Sprite 2 is stupid good. It's a huge pain in the ass - unlike the standard model, your opponents will *have* to take it down eventually. But throwing together enough firepower to kill something that heavily armored is much easier said than done...and all the while, your heavier units will be wailing away scot-free. It's worth comparing with the Supernova - and trading one for four Sprite 2s if you're feeling cocky.

Quote
Oh easily- the 2 especially can be real bad if it's got a screen of some kind, say several Sirens?
Damn straight. Float to the optimal range and holepunch with the Sprite 2s, encircle and critseek with the Sirens.

The Sprite 3...well, it works around that Fusillade system, which really was a somewhat abortive attempt to turn ProtoMechs into larger BA if you ask me. I've never used it, and I'm not sold on it yet. And if your calculations are right, it's friggen' expensive.

One major strength of all of the Sprites is how they have jumpjets. They can all lose their legs and remain mobile, which makes them even greater zombies than they already are. With rolls 2 and 5-9 hitting either the legs or the torso, and rolls 3 and 11 hitting nothing at all, chances are pretty high that all of the Sprites will get the utmost out of their huge amounts of armor. The downsides...there are two major ones. The first is crits. The staggering durability of the thing makes it a lot more likely that you'll lose the ProtoMech through pilot KO or death. I guess it's not a huge disadvantage, but it's still one to account for. The second is infernos. All of this armor - and all of this BV - can be thoroughly neutralized with a handful of infernos. It's partially why I like how long-ranged the Sprite and Sprite 2 are: they can keep out of range of those damn missiles. But if a cheap, fast-moving platform comes in and lands a few inferno missiles, things are gonna suck. Hard. It's the major reason why I have trouble with most Ultraheavies, they're just too damn expensive for something too damn easy to take out.

BTW, post your BV calculations in the MUL/errata threads?
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #13 on: 27 February 2015, 17:20:47 »
GreekFire you just struck one of my pet hates about ProtoMechs

"They can lose all their legs yet remain mobile with jump jets"

This really bugs me not from a rules perspective but a "reality check" moment.  Take a unit jump it into air it lands on broken legs and should crumple in a heap the whole point of the legs are to cushion a landing from a moving unit Jump Jets do not take all the impact from a landing.

Unfortunately due to Protos having no piloting skill it's one if those annoying things that happen

Personally I think that if Protos lose their legs that them frozen to the spot not a prone target but unable to move.

As for the Sprite love 1 & 2 never used 3 before or after changes
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #14 on: 27 February 2015, 21:07:23 »
Greekfire's comments about the Fusillade and then about the Sprite's vulnerability to Infernos struck me with an idea for how to get some good usage out of those weapons. Fusillades(and iATMs in general) are very efficient weapons because of their Streak nature. You don't have many shots with them, but you do know that(barring an AMS or AECM) every shot that flies will connect, and connect with its full power. People look down on Fusillades because while they are very efficient and flexible, you only get a couple shots, and even combined, those shots have very little killing power.

Usually.

Fusillades are essentially iATM-3s. iATMs can fire improved Inferno missiles, and a 3-pack will always hit with all three of those missiles when it hits. 3 is the magic point for a number of units that otherwise don't much care about Infernos and suddenly start dying to them, most notably battlesuits and Protomechs. The time period when iATMS and Fusillades were being perfected was also the time when the Clans started having to face very tough Protos and suits of both Clan and IS origins. Coincidence? I think not. 8)

You won't kill many 'mechs or tanks with Fusillades, but if bringing them means you know you don't have to deal with at least a few of those newfangled super-suits or heavy protos when things get up close and personal, they might seem a bit more of a good deal. I'll leave it to others to decide if the cost of a single Sprite 3 is worth not having to deal with almost two points of Gnomes, Coronas, or Delphynes.
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #15 on: 28 February 2015, 02:29:12 »
Unfortunately, barring Errata, while the Fusillade can use any iATM ammunition, the launcher itself only incorporates a integral Artermis IV system, so you only get +2 to the Cluster Hits Table, rather than the system being a Streak system.

Which is a shame really. If it were a Streak system, I think many of the doubts about it would fall away. Instead its sort of left in the "Maybe?" category.

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #16 on: 01 March 2015, 01:00:55 »
I believe I once read one of TPTB saying that had flaws, and I think it can be seen in the mobility of the Sprite. It's movement is like a light 'Mechs, heavy on the jumping, as opposed to that of a heavy 'Mech, which it is closer to.

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #17 on: 01 March 2015, 11:19:46 »
*snip*

It's hard to argue for Fusillade-Inferno rounds when SRM-Inferno rounds are already effective and easily available to ProtoMechs. Their range advantage over standard SRMs is nice, but that 4-hex minimum range is most definitely not. I typically expect to use Infernos at pointblank range; having a huge minimum can be a dealbreaker depending on the environment.

ER ATMs have too piddly a damage output for them to be worth it on a 2-shot weapon system, Standard ATMs are and have always been crap, which leaves HE ATMs if you really want to act like an overgrown Elemental or IMPs for a bit of a tactical edge. With IMPs, you can take a single Sprite 3 or something and throw it within an ambush Proto force to give it some extra survivability and effectiveness for the first few (essential) rounds of combat. That's how I think I'd use it, at least.
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #18 on: 03 March 2015, 16:17:39 »
Nice article!

As with all broken Protos in WORS, the source lies with me. Herb did a lot of work on protos in that book as well, but I think most/all of his were fine.

Fusillade: In a very early part of the WOR creation process, they were intended to be more RL in nature, hence that odd Elemental on the cover; that's supposed to be a fusillade. (Yes, also means that at one point it was supposed to be small enough to work there) Obviously we moved away from that, though not in time to affect the art.
The concept we settled on was ATM for Protos that were very specifically to be fired in very large numbers on a single target. Like a whole Sept (21) of ProtoMechs on a single target. With its access to the nicer ammo types, this one salvo was supposed to cripple the target; a second salvo would be preserved for a fresh target. So, definitely as many IMPs and IIWs as you could get on target. [Edit: mixed in with some regular or HE ATMs to ensure it has to make a PSR as well, of course. Even an Osteon Prime should start firing multiple ammo types once the ranges permit.

We also wanted the design to be flawed; incomplete. The Society simply lacked the time to perfect it. As the fluff said:
"It cannot be considered
a mature technology, and further development would
be needed to fully unlock its potential. Unfortunately, the
main design lab for the Fusillade was located on Tamaron
and destroyed in the Steel Viper assault in 3075."

But yes, in the above context, I was intending the Sprite 3 to be with 20 buddies when it fired its four Fusilades, ideally the 'off button' for an assault Mech that has proven itself too successful. It'd help if I properly read the rules though. Still, even reduced to "just" 2 launcher, that tactic is not completely without merit.

Final remark: I've noticed a trend in this article that tries to judge the ProtoMech for its own isolated merits, while even in the Clan format, they deploy in large numbers.  I think their utility (or their failures) are better examined when you look at them in their smallest deployment. 5 or 3/9.
« Last Edit: 03 March 2015, 16:20:03 by Paul »
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #19 on: 03 March 2015, 16:28:55 »
Fusillade: In a very early part of the WOR creation process, they were intended to be more RL in nature, hence that odd Elemental on the cover; that's supposed to be a fusillade. (Yes, also means that at one point it was supposed to be small enough to work there) Obviously we moved away from that, though not in time to affect the art.
Pretty please Clan tech RL....  O:-)
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #20 on: 03 March 2015, 16:37:16 »
Pretty please Clan tech RL....  O:-)

Not cool enough. ;p
(The device, not you. I presume. ;) )
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #21 on: 03 March 2015, 17:45:20 »
Of course, the movement and to-hit modifiers for IMP ammo is capped at -2/+2, so you don't need to saturate the target with that many missiles, though the heat effects don't seem to be capped beyond what the main rules allow.

Though that might be a mean little trick. First salvo for some of them is IMP ammo to keep the unit from getting away, while the second salvo is HE (since you have to be close for the IMP ammo anyway).

Of course, lets face it, firing the weapons of 21 ProtoMechs at a single target is probably going to result in bad things happening, no matter what weapon you're using :)

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #22 on: 03 March 2015, 20:46:38 »
Pretty please Clan tech RL....  O:-)

Not until we get a clan heavy PPC!!!

Paul stopping by and sharing his design ideas, awesome!

The one problem with us comparing the Sprite as a single unit instead of a group.  It's just too much to imagine.  It's so dangerous on its own.  5 of them is just absurd.  The idea of 100 clan LRMs or 5 ERLL's coming at you from a variety of angles is bad.  The fact that you most likely can't deal with more than one or two shooters a turn is even worse.  They're not easy to hit either and if you do hit them they probably won't die.  That means the odds are a point of Sprites is going to beat a mech more often than not.  The reality is you just made a proto that effectively kills mechs... and that's new!


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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #23 on: 03 March 2015, 22:24:35 »
Of course, the movement and to-hit modifiers for IMP ammo is capped at -2/+2, so you don't need to saturate the target with that many missiles, though the heat effects don't seem to be capped beyond what the main rules allow.

Though that might be a mean little trick. First salvo for some of them is IMP ammo to keep the unit from getting away, while the second salvo is HE (since you have to be close for the IMP ammo anyway).

Well, my thought process is to have multiple ammo types on the same proto, with maybe a specific hunter element with the IMPs, since they require much closer proximity.
I mean, with an Osteon once the target is close enough, you're mixing IIW, IMP and regular/HE ammo, right?
The same would be assumed here: 1 launcher has IMP, 1 launcher has IIW, and the other two both have HE.


Quote
Of course, lets face it, firing the weapons of 21 ProtoMechs at a single target is probably going to result in bad things happening, no matter what weapon you're using :)

That's the plan! The Society had few advantages, and certainly couldn't afford to face the Clans in ranged combat any more than the Inner Sphere could in the 3050s. The Society's skill disadvantage was notably worse than that of the Inner Sphere. Never mind their much smaller numbers.
« Last Edit: 05 March 2015, 19:03:04 by Paul »
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Paul

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #24 on: 03 March 2015, 22:32:22 »
Paul stopping by and sharing his design ideas, awesome!

Thankew! High praise, much appreciated!


Quote
The one problem with us comparing the Sprite as a single unit instead of a group.  It's just too much to imagine.  It's so dangerous on its own.  5 of them is just absurd.  The idea of 100 clan LRMs or 5 ERLL's coming at you from a variety of angles is bad.  The fact that you most likely can't deal with more than one or two shooters a turn is even worse.  They're not easy to hit either and if you do hit them they probably won't die.  That means the odds are a point of Sprites is going to beat a mech more often than not.  The reality is you just made a proto that effectively kills mechs... and that's new!

That was the plan. The LRM version was all Herb, I made the variants.
That said though, it's slow speed shouldn't be underestimated. A 5/8/5 'Mech should be able to prevent encirclement fairly well. And if you compare the fight to a 75 ton 'Mech, there's quite a few in that tonnage range that I can see doing quite well. Faster 'Mechs can easily use terrain to split the force up, preventing all of them from firing, or from firing with the same to-hit numbers.
This means the Sprite is very specifically intended to be a response to assault Mechs of 4/6 or slower. That's a situation where they'll have a high instance of dictating the particulars of the fight.
And overall tactics aside, the Society had few answers to assault Mechs. They needed asymmetrical answers to most problems.
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #25 on: 03 March 2015, 23:00:07 »
The Sprite, unique most of all for its distinction of being the only protomech named for a soft drink. :D

The 2 is amazing.  For fluff reasons I have a hard time liking protos, but that is a very impressive machine.  But they should all be destroyed for the heresy of making the Urbanmech obsolete. [madflame]
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #26 on: 03 March 2015, 23:52:38 »
And overall tactics aside, the Society had few answers to assault Mechs. They needed asymmetrical answers to most problems.

I thought the Society just sent tank waves at assaults to give them something to chew on?  :D

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #27 on: 04 March 2015, 01:31:32 »
I thought the Society just sent tank waves at assaults to give them something to chew on?  :D

Sounds pretty asymmetrical to me!  O0
;)
I reckon they ran out of tanks before they ran out of clanners in assault Mechs...
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #28 on: 04 March 2015, 08:07:42 »
Yeah, it was more of a humorous comment haha.

In game terms I can say using heavy, fully armored SLDF tanks (and maybe a few others) does give the Society 'Mechs time to do their thing.  And in a one off game, who cares if those guys get chewed up?  It's going to take some time to do the chewing, even for Clan assaults.

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #29 on: 05 March 2015, 16:54:07 »
Proto pilot: how will we deal with assault mechs
Scientist: with Science!!!
Proto pilot: yeah you say that a lot but I need a ride
Scientist: feast your eyes on the Sprite
Proto pilot: you can't be serious a soda <turns and looks> YAAAY SCIENCE!!!

I see Paul's point on using terrain but I always consider range to an easy way to break an engagement with protos.  Most 5/8 heavies either run away from heavy gunned protos or out armor the little fast ones.  There are some protos that over rule this (Roc 1, LRM Minotaur).  But the Sprite has so much heavy weapons range, it's tough to get away.


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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #30 on: 05 March 2015, 17:13:22 »
The concept we settled on was ATM for Protos that were very specifically to be fired in very large numbers on a single target. Like a whole Sept (21) of ProtoMechs on a single target. With its access to the nicer ammo types, this one salvo was supposed to cripple the target; a second salvo would be preserved for a fresh target. So, definitely as many IMPs and IIWs as you could get on target. [Edit: mixed in with some regular or HE ATMs to ensure it has to make a PSR as well, of course. Even an Osteon Prime should start firing multiple ammo types once the ranges permit.
Quote
But yes, in the above context, I was intending the Sprite 3 to be with 20 buddies when it fired its four Fusilades, ideally the 'off button' for an assault Mech that has proven itself too successful. It'd help if I properly read the rules though. Still, even reduced to "just" 2 launcher, that tactic is not completely without merit.

Hmm, that's interesting. I can definitely see the merits of firing off a huge mixed volley of Infernos and IMPs, but I'm not sold on using massed Fusillades to cripple a target. I mean, the Fusillade weighs 1.5 tons for a total of 9 damage (if using HE ammo). Although it's competitive when compared to stuff like an ERMedium, your standard SRM volley will do just fine (1.4 tons for an SRM-4 with 10 shots of ammo). You also get the advantage of, well, endurance. I know I'm sounding like a minmaxer here, but you can get two Medium Chem Lasers with 5 shots each for 1.5 tons. But now that I look at things, it's true that you'll be hard-pressed to get that large a damage spike for under 1.5 tons.

Quote
That said though, it's slow speed shouldn't be underestimated. A 5/8/5 'Mech should be able to prevent encirclement fairly well. And if you compare the fight to a 75 ton 'Mech, there's quite a few in that tonnage range that I can see doing quite well. Faster 'Mechs can easily use terrain to split the force up, preventing all of them from firing, or from firing with the same to-hit numbers.
This means the Sprite is very specifically intended to be a response to assault Mechs of 4/6 or slower. That's a situation where they'll have a high instance of dictating the particulars of the fight.
And overall tactics aside, the Society had few answers to assault Mechs. They needed asymmetrical answers to most problems.

Well, that's when using Sprites alongside stuff like the Cecerops or Siren works really well. Even if your opponent has one of the hundreds of 5/8 or 6/9 heavies that the Clans love to use, you can use the lighter stuff to encircle them while using the mobility of the Sprite to maneuver into the best brackets. I'd say it'd be a good use of manpower as well; take the young and inexperienced sibbies and labrats, pump them full of feralize, and throw them into some of the cheapest Protos where they'll at least get a small boost to their Frenzy damage.

EDIT: WOOO PAGE 2 ON A PROTOMECH ARTICLE!! THE RAPTURE IS NIGH!!
« Last Edit: 05 March 2015, 17:15:41 by GreekFire »
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #31 on: 05 March 2015, 18:33:19 »
Isn't it 18 damage, since the Fusillade comes with a single reload?

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #32 on: 05 March 2015, 20:10:14 »
But yes, in the above context, I was intending the Sprite 3 to be with 20 buddies when it fired its four Fusilades, ideally the 'off button' for an assault Mech that has proven itself too successful. It'd help if I properly read the rules though. Still, even reduced to "just" 2 launcher, that tactic is not completely without merit.

Final remark: I've noticed a trend in this article that tries to judge the ProtoMech for its own isolated merits, while even in the Clan format, they deploy in large numbers.  I think their utility (or their failures) are better examined when you look at them in their smallest deployment. 5 or 3/9.

Hey, thanks a lot! To be honest, I never thought about grading protos as a group and I can't believe I never did!
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #33 on: 05 March 2015, 21:37:00 »
Cool, glad I made a difference!
On Society ProtoMech organization: the elements of 3 are command elements. Groups of 9 are the operational end, they're assigned a target by their leadership and expected to work together to get the job done. Commanders would ideally prefer to hang back, if the situation permits.
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #34 on: 05 March 2015, 23:34:20 »
Cool, glad I made a difference!
On Society ProtoMech organization: the elements of 3 are command elements. Groups of 9 are the operational end, they're assigned a target by their leadership and expected to work together to get the job done. Commanders would ideally prefer to hang back, if the situation permits.

clarification
society organization seems based around primes.

the smallest is an Un, roughly equal to a clan point.
3 BA, 3 proto's, 7 vehicles, 1 mech, or 1 fighter to an un.
a trey is three Un's, and is a fairly typical combat deployment.
two trey's and a command Un make up a Sept, which was the main society 'large' unit.

however it would be unlikely to have a pure Proto sept. most would be a mix of proto's, vehicles, mechs, and BA. and even if it had several Un's of proto's, odds are they'd be different chassis types.
so it would be better to think in terms of groups of 3 (for the society) or groups of 5 (for after the reavings when those models are adopted for use in clan forces)

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #35 on: 06 March 2015, 00:29:30 »
Isn't it 18 damage, since the Fusillade comes with a single reload?

I meant per shot, gah.

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #36 on: 06 March 2015, 09:48:42 »
the smallest is an Un, roughly equal to a clan point.
3 BA, 3 proto's, 7 vehicles, 1 mech, or 1 fighter to an un.
a trey is three Un's, and is a fairly typical combat deployment.
two trey's and a command Un make up a Sept, which was the main society 'large' unit.

Yep!


Quote
however it would be unlikely to have a pure Proto sept.

Partially accurate. Proto's is one area the Society actually had decent numbers. So single-model ProtoMech Septs did exist.
That said, it would be more typical to see 3 different types: two homogenous Treys, and a command Un with its own variant.
But yes, formations where there was a wide variety of ProtoMechs were not rare either. It's just that I wouldn't categorize more homogenous formations as "unlikely".

It should be noted though that regardless of whether you're dealing with 1 configuration or multiple, the Society model was to consider the ProtoMech Trey the preferred combat unit over an Un, so I think if you're trying to look at ProtoMech performance, the ideal numbers to consider are 5 (for regular Clans) and 9 (for the Society context).

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #37 on: 06 March 2015, 11:07:25 »
So basically 3 Sprites hanging back and providing fire support for Bogarts and that other quad with melee system and methed out rabid pilots.

That's what you guys came up with???

So my mech is dealing with 60 LRM's, 3 plasma cannons (or MPLs), 12 SRM's, and 3 robotic rabid wolves trying to rip its face off.

I feel no shame in building uber custom Night Gyr's, Blood Asp's etc in SSW and pointing them at any Society formation.  (Before one of you jokers talks asymmetrical check the colors, I'll add SC's flamers, pulse, and any other munchy way to deal with asymetrical, I'm an Adder damnit!)


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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #38 on: 06 March 2015, 11:28:35 »
So basically 3 Sprites hanging back and providing fire support for Bogarts and that other quad with melee system and methed out rabid pilots.

That's what you guys came up with???

Yep!


Quote
So my mech is dealing with 60 LRM's, 3 plasma cannons (or MPLs), 12 SRM's, and 3 robotic rabid wolves trying to rip its face off.

60 LRMs, 9 Plasma Cannons*, and 9 rabid wolves.
Trying to take down 1 BattleMech at a time. If sheer firepower doesn't drop them, the heat should be an issues, and the Basilisks should be creating some interesting leg-related piloting problems.

* Well, a Trey of Boggarts will most likely hose down multiple 'Mech targets to reduce their efficiency, or group to wreck vehicles/battle armor quickly. You only need 2 Plasma Cannon hits on average to hit the max, call it 3 hits on target to seal the deal.


Quote
I feel no shame in building uber custom Night Gyr's, Blood Asp's etc in SSW and pointing them at any Society formation.  (Before one of you jokers talks asymmetrical check the colors, I'll add SC's flamers, pulse, and any other munchy way to deal with asymetrical, I'm an Adder damnit!)

Well, don't forget that most Society Mech formations average to 4/5 skills, most ProtoMech formations average to 3/4, and most vehicle formations to 5/6 at best. Battle Armor was too sporadic to factor in.
So, I would expect to see that opposed by 2/3 skills or better.
For example, the Society vs Steel Viper game I'm running tomorrow will have the above averages, while the Viper Fusiliers average to 1/2 skills. The Society has 1 MechWarrior in that league (2/3), everyone else is worse. Meanwhile, they're facing a whole Cluster of 1/2 murderers.

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #39 on: 06 March 2015, 12:18:46 »
Well, don't forget that most Society Mech formations average to 4/5 skills, most ProtoMech formations average to 3/4, and most vehicle formations to 5/6 at best. Battle Armor was too sporadic to factor in.

Where are the average Society skills given again? I remember seeing them before but I don't remember where.

Quote
For example, the Society vs Steel Viper game I'm running tomorrow will have the above averages, while the Viper Fusiliers average to 1/2 skills. The Society has 1 MechWarrior in that league (2/3), everyone else is worse. Meanwhile, they're facing a whole Cluster of 1/2 murderers.

Man, I wish I could see this game happen. Alpha Strike, or standard?
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #40 on: 06 March 2015, 13:06:03 »
Yeah I truly don't understand how Society mech warriors really ever stood a chance even with the crazy toys and asymetrical tactics.

The first time a solid clan (Vipers count) shows up in force you're going to die wholesale.  Say what you want about BV, but in universe an elite frontline clan cluster is going decimate you on the battlefield.  I thought the Society really missed trying to ever fight on a battefield.  They'd have been better off busting out the chemical/biological weapons and keeping their heads down.

The Sprite may be the one exception.  It's armed well enough to fight, armored well enough to survive, and mobile enough to evade.  Ok, two exceptions, the Osteon is going to give its pilot some opportunities.  I love the Septicemia, it's an awesome mech.  Even it and it's network of friends is going to get waxed against the best the clans have.  When that cluster rolls up in all its 1/2-2/3 glory.  You're units are just plain going to die faster than the tricks help you.  Especially after the first time that clan fights you.  They know you're cheating and they have no issue forgetting zell ever existed.

Now that's why the clans won of course.

My real interest is in what's next for the Sprite.  Because somebody out there in the blackness of the deep periohery is probably facing them in groups of five with snakes and kitties painted on them.  And this is where my attention really peaks.  What does a Sprite (or the aforementioned off topic society mechs) do in the hands of a clan warrior as part of the clan warmachine.  This is what I want to see!


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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #42 on: 11 March 2015, 21:04:20 »
Yeah, clan elite clusters are freaking insane.  They're damn near impossible to play in a BV2 game since you can get a small warship fleet to counter them for equal BV.  But this game highlights my point.  What happens when those elite warriors start playing with those sick toys.  1/2 gunner in a Savage Yote Prime (with iATMs swapped in).  That's evil, actually it's not evil.  It's a giant sledgehammer.  It ain't subtle.  Same with the protos.  What happens when the Cobras with their refined phenotype and highly trained pilots start running trinaries of Sprites or whatever they develop from the Sprite. 

At the basic level.  What happens when a 3/4 regular clanner gets hands on a Selticemia E (with NOVA removed for whatever)?  Or the ATM version with iATMs?  The Septi E with the deadweight removed is a bad mother.  Put a clan warrior in the cockpit, and it'll win a lot of fights against anyone else.

I can't wait to see where this goes next out there behind the curtain...


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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #43 on: 11 March 2015, 21:36:24 »
Yeah, clan elite clusters are freaking insane.  They're damn near impossible to play in a BV2 game since you can get a small warship fleet to counter them for equal BV. 

They were only 400,000 BV. ;p
Before the disease kicked in.


Quote
At the basic level.  What happens when a 3/4 regular clanner gets hands on a Selticemia E (with NOVA removed for whatever)?

Well, it's nice, but my last 2 games had a 3/4 in the Sept E, since it's supposed to go to the better MWs, and it's not that earth shattering unless you fail to deal with the spotters.


Quote
  Or the ATM version with iATMs?

? The Septicemia A does have iATMs. The Pariah A does not because the Sharks didn't realize what they were dealing with.

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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #44 on: 11 March 2015, 22:03:10 »
The E variant of the Sept isn't as scary as you'd think- it just doesn't have the heat sinks, as walking and firing both cannons with the Nova generates 5 extra heat.
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Re: Protomech of the Week- The Sprite
« Reply #45 on: 18 September 2017, 14:08:16 »
 [drool]