Aviation Pictures Part Deux

[I am Belch II]

Nice job Japan building the F35

[Weirdo]

I'll be more impressed when it achieves operational service


At the risk of sparking yet another debate about the F-35, I still do not understand entirely the rationale for having two very different "conventional" F-35s between the CATOBAR F-35C and the "straight" F-35A rather than just taking the tailhook off those for the USAF

As I understand, there's a lot more than just the tailhook when it comes to mapping the F-35 tough enough for carrier ops, not the least of which are heavily reinforced landing gear, and possibly a strengthened game as well. All that stuff takes up mass and space, so the non-naval -35s have more capacity for fuel and ordnance(and possibly more speed).

I'd be fine with standardization myself, but evidently the folks that decide these things decided that the boost in performance was worth the cost of the additional variant.

[Fat Guy]

At the risk of sparking yet another debate about the F-35, I still do not understand entirely the rationale for having two very different "conventional" F-35s between the CATOBAR F-35C and the "straight" F-35A rather than just taking the tailhook off those for the USAF

The C is much more than an A with a tailhook. It has bigger, folding wings and tailplane. A much more robust structure and landing gear. And to help offset all that extra weight, no internal gun.

[DoctorMonkey]

My thought was more, remove tail hook from a C and tell the USAF it's their lovely new exclusive-use fighter

[Kidd]

My thought was more, remove tail hook from a C and tell the USAF it's their lovely new exclusive-use fighter

In a word, cost. The F-35A is the cheapest of the three. Also note lack of cannon.

[wantec]

The C is much more than an A with a tailhook. It has bigger, folding wings and tailplane. A much more robust structure and landing gear. And to help offset all that extra weight, no internal gun.

Plus the Air Force uses a different aerial refueling system than the Navy/Marine Corps. For lack of knowing the official terminology, AF aircraft are "innies" and Navy/MC aircraft are "outties".

The AF one has the internal gun and bigger ammo bin than the B/C gun pod has.

[DoctorMonkey]

I forgot that USAF fetish for refuelling fighters as if they were B-52s and I guess if the A is cheaper it sort of makes sense except they could have removed the cost of developing the A entirely


Anyway, as a Brit I'm just bitter we're stuck with the F-35B Lemon (you can't have all three aircraft actually called Lightning in practice as per calling the Super Hornet Rhino, I feel Lemon would work for the B)

[Kidd]

I forgot that USAF fetish for refuelling fighters as if they were B-52s and I guess if the A is cheaper it sort of makes sense except they could have removed the cost of developing the A entirely

The A variant is almost USD 30 million cheaper than the C, that's not small beans.

Per wiki, planned orders are 2,319 units of F-35A, 508 units of B, and 340 units of C - so it is really the C's existence which is called into major question here.

Anyway, as a Brit I'm just bitter we're stuck with the F-35B Lemon (you can't have all three aircraft actually called Lightning in practice as per calling the Super Hornet Rhino, I feel Lemon would work for the B)

F-35 Bitter Lemon... sounds like a cocktail  :D
Aye well, cheer up, you Brits are restoring naval aviation capability, you can big it up over the Frogs on that at least  ;D

[glitterboy2098]

actually the Airforce using the boom and receptacle system for fighters as well as bombers has a few advantages. the boom system transfers fuel faster, which is why they need it for bombers, but requiring the fighters use it too means they only have to operate a single type of refueling system, which means less logistical headaches. and the boom system can be fitted with a drogue hose to allow it to refuel Navy and marine aircraft, or aircraft from other nations (most of which go for the probe and drogue system because that variety is cheaper.. and if you don't have big bombers to refuel, you don't have much need of the boom based system. the exception is mostly those nations buying USAF hand-me-downs.)

IIRC japan is one of the handful of other nations using the boom system.. since their aircraft have largely been customized USAF types like the F-4, F-15, and the F-16 derived F-2.

F-35 Bitter Lemon... sounds like a cocktail  :D
Aye well, cheer up, you Brits are restoring naval aviation capability, you can big it up over the Frogs on that at least  ;D

and hey, if the F-35 proves to be a big hassle, maybe it'll encourage you guys to design a new VTOL aircraft of your own design. i'm sure BAE has a few plans lying around for that eventuality. (if nothing else, they could restart their design from the early days of the JSF program. i always thought it looked like a better design. certainly much stealthier)

[Feenix74]

F-35A is a more efficient aircraft than the F-35C. It is cheaper to procure, it has a lighter structure which is sufficient for operations from prepared airfields as opposed to the heavier structure (tailhook, landing gear and airframe structure) required to support carrier operations. If my memory serves me correctly, the larger folding wing of the F-35C is required to allow for carrier take-offs and landings. I assume it would provide greater fuel storage capacity. The larger wing and heavier structure all make the aircraft less maneuverable which is not ideal for dogfighting even if your plan is that your aircraft is mainly a bomb-truck and kills enemy aircraft at beyond visual range.

Refuelling systems between USAF (boom and receptacle) vs USN (drogue and probe) can be worked around - not that long ago RAAF was operating F-111s with receptacles and F/A-18A/Bs with probes, RAAF currently operate F/A-18A/B/Fs with probes and C-17s/E-7As/P-8A/KC-30A with receptacles, RAAF KC-30A Multi-Role Tanker Transport has a boom and two below wing mounted drogues.







edit - added photos (it is an aviation picture thread)

[I am Belch II]

Nice pics of the RAAF in action. Seeing the 737 Wedgetail is pretty neat.

[Feenix74]

Yep, love seeing the Wedgetail flying and pulling operational duties in the sandpit. There were few hiccup with the Wedgetail when it first flew that had some people seriously worried that it would never become operational.

Hopefully soon the USAF will get its KC-46 Pegasus delivered from Boeing and operational.



The KC-X project has been decades in the making and almost a textbook case study in how not to procure an aircraft. Hopefully in 2018, the USAF will finally take delivery of its first KC-46 and retire some of the  KC-135 Stratotankers that entered service in 1957.

 

[ANS Kamas P81]

Hopefully the F-35J doesn't run into the problem the As are having.  Behold the jet that takes your breath away!

And, no I mean that literally, in the last few weeks there's been five hypoxia issues with -35s at Luke AFB and the airframe is grounded at the airfield.  So far no reports from any other airbase, which suggests a local problem - possibly maintenance - but is definitely concerning.

[Feenix74]

There have been similar reports with the F-22 as well in the past. They both use an oxygen generator instead of the more traditional bottled oxygen in "classic" military aircraft. So teething problems are not unexpected (its called "bleeding edge" technology for a reason).

[worktroll]

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Good one, though I do have to wonder as to why a character who's got the ability to fly also has a jet.

[Cache]

Good one, though I do have to wonder as to why a character who's got the ability to fly also has a jet.

Keeps the bugs out of her teeth.

[glitterboy2098]

[accidental duplicate post, ignore]

[glitterboy2098]

Good one, though I do have to wonder as to why a character who's got the ability to fly also has a jet.

originally she wasn't able to fly, and used the jet to get around. much like the early superman comics, she could jump very high though and fall safely from great heights. (she was originally just a super-athlete with the lasso and bulletproof bracers) more recent comics have given her flight (since the jet was kinda silly) but the jet keeps rearing its head anyway.

like most of the older DC heroes, her original version saw a lot of changes during the 'golden age', as writers would append new powers or abilities to the characters in order to make stories more diverse in an age of the comics code (when what was allowed storywise by the company executives was heavily controlled and fairly simplistic)

that was one of the reasons DC did the crisis on infinite earths.. when the stories were allowed to become more complex, trying to stay in continuity with the older stuff (and all the 'alternate earths' that failing to do so forced them to invent to explain it) that they decided to clean house and reboot.. but decided it would be better to make an event out of it all so readers wouldn't be as confused.

it didn't help really, in the long term (the continuity problems continued to happen) but it made for entertaining reading.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

originally she wasn't able to fly, and used the jet to get around. much like the early superman comics, she could jump very high though and fall safely from great heights. (she was originally just a super-athlete with the lasso and bulletproof bracers) more recent comics have given her flight (since the jet was kinda silly) but the jet keeps rearing its head anyway.

I know that.  I just wonder why the writers keep bringing the jet into things.

[ANS Kamas P81]

I know that.  I just wonder why the writers keep bringing the jet into things.

Invisible jets are cool?

I know they don't really work as designed, but are relatively close to functional (compared to other things).  And they look pretty spiff, plus do a decent job of being an gunship-transport rather than a fighter.

[Fat Guy]

Seems that Syrian Fitter shot down the other day spoofed an AIM-9X.   :o

http://www.combataircraft.net/2017/06/23/how-did-a-30-year-old-su-22-defeat-a-modern-aim-9x/

[Kidd]

Seems that Syrian Fitter shot down the other day spoofed an AIM-9X.   :o

http://www.combataircraft.net/2017/06/23/how-did-a-30-year-old-su-22-defeat-a-modern-aim-9x/

Very interesting, potentially explosive news.

I didn't hear of this engagement. Wow, the Fighter Mafia must be celebrating, they're relevant for the first time in almost 2 decades  ::)

[HobbesHurlbut]

Very interesting, potentially explosive news.

I didn't hear of this engagement. Wow, the Fighter Mafia must be celebrating, they're relevant for the first time in almost 2 decades  ::)

When were they irrelevant?

[David CGB]

When were they irrelevant?

never

[ANS Kamas P81]

Well, first time they've had more to do than patrol or drop a bomb here or there.  Interesting about the AIM-9X, says a lot about what kind of flares the Syrians have - and it may not have been the flare; there's always a possibility of hardware malfunction.  Data set of one unit, after all, so can't rule out anything yet.

[Daryk]

I'm pretty sure the P_k for AIM-9X was less than 100% before this engagement, so I'm going with the SU-22 got lucky...

[Feenix74]

It is why the flyboys keep insisting on installing guns/cannons on fighter aircraft even those they are pretty much an obsolete weapon system - while you can evade bullets/shells you cannot spoof them.

[JarheadEd]

I took a few pictures on a little jaunt to Virginia Beach and Europe.

Folder------>http://imgur.com/a/c8Ajv

[glitterboy2098]

to be fair, the main advantage the AIM-9X has over the older AIM-9M (and the navy's AIM-9R) is the more compact size for use on stealth planes, and the higher offbore aiming it can do.. which given the helmet mounted sights that allow the plane to actually make use of this capability are not standard deployments, really doesn't offer much advantage.

it is also worth noting that the Syrian Su-22's haven't seen an update since (at latest) the 1980's, if not the 1970's.. it may well be that their spoofing systems were just so old that they do things no modern system would do, which means the modern weapons no longer know to ignore it.