"Agents of SHIELD" unofficial INHUMAN thread

[GhostBear]

For the movies, yes.  My understanding was that Agents of SHIELD was due to Coulson being an unexpectedly popular character.

That's the gist of yet, yeah.

[Cache]

I don't see how they could have- Agents of SHIELD wasn't planned when the first Captain America movie was released.

The plan doesn't have to be detailed.  Just a little bit of, "Red Skull was neither the beginning nor the end of Hydra."

After all, the "cut of one head" bit doesn't make sense with the Red Skull appearing as the only leader.  The Lernaean Hydra of myth had many heads from the get-go.

[JadeHellbringer]

You knew the last episode before winter break was going to be huge. But...

...Damn, Phil. That was... wow.

And yet, he may have made things a whole hell of a lot worse on everyone. This is going to get uglier than Lash before his coffee...

...in a few months  :'(

[Marwynn]

Can't really be mad at Simmons for the unLashing. But yeah, Phil... you need a break son. I mean, not more rib breaking, but still.

 

[five_corparty]

I have been very, very happy with this season.  unlike doc who, which has been both amazingly good and meh, this has been a solid WOW the whole season.  O0

[Tymers Realm]

You knew the last episode before winter break was going to be huge. But...

...Damn, Phil. That was... wow.

And yet, he may have made things a whole hell of a lot worse on everyone.

Well Fitz had a part in it as well. I mean back-shooting what's his name with a flare gun. Sheesh...

And I think we can agree that wasn't Ward, but what Malick was wanting in the stinger.... Gawd March is such a long time away....

At least we'll have Carter kicking but on the west coast in mid January.

[JadeHellbringer]

Well... ok, Fitz. A couple things on that.

First, I won't compare what he did to what Coulson did moments later. Apples and oranges. Fitz knew that what he was up against wasn't a person anymore (I'm unsure if the creature took over a host body, or was able to emulate the appearance of a person- Ward's last-second appearance suggests the former, but just not sure yet- after all, the smoldering corpse sure didn't look human!). He saw a creature that scared Simmons to death during her time there, moments away from entering a portal to Earth- and to Simmons- and had only one good option to deal with the problem. He took it. Hard to argue that for a moment. Coulson, meanwhile, was a totally different situation- it wasn't in the heat of combat, it wasn't to stop an alien menace or anything like that, it was... well, revenge. I'm sure he can spin it as not being able to carry him to the portal in time, putting him out of his misery rather than leaving him to die or be stranded there, etc., but he straight up crushed a guy's ribcage... and not just that, but someone he knows very well, who was a comrade for a time, who he's been at war with to one extent or other since the middle of season 1, and who only a couple of days prior (in-universe) had shot his significant other in the throat.

Coulson has something to answer for, no matter how justified he may view it. Fitz? Fitz did the right thing by any standard.

Now... that said.

Fitz also biffed it here. For being a genius, that was a boneheaded move. Because as a scientist, he should know better than to assume that shooting it with a flare would kill it. Come on, man- Simmons was terrified of this thing, Hydra just moved heaven and earth (literally) to get into a position to get this thing to Earth, it just admitted openly that it was the cause of the local civilization's downfall... and you figured shooting it with a FLARE GUN was going to kill it? I know you're in a hurry to reach the portal, but... really, can't take a couple of seconds to check the smoldering debris and see if it's really dead? So you left, assuming a FLARE killed the apocalyptic-level monster you just fought, and knowing you left Ward's body sitting right there too? When FrankenWard comes after the team in March, I'll screech in fury if Fitz or Coulson act surprised.

[Daemion]

Man, I knew Ward wouldn't come away from this episode the same.  ^-^

I have to say that of all the characters in the show, he has changed the most. But, to be honest, some have changed too much. Coulson's not the anchor that I was expecting him to be. This isn't the same guy who assembled the Avengers in the movies. I really was expecting something from him more like Hannibal from the A-Team, or Mission Impossible's Jim Phelps played by Peter Graves.

He is supposed to be the link between the movies and this show, a constant. An anchor or rock that people can comfortably recognize. He would quietly and unassumingly make the right calls while everyone else around him has an emotional breakdown.

Instead, we're given Marvel's version of Oliver Queen from Arrow Season 1. When it comes to what's his, he can't seem to do any wrong, even though from the outside, he's being petty and selfish. While Ollie grows in the Arrow TV show, and becomes better, Coulson seems to be breaking down. Ward said that he knew Coulson better than Coulson, and I'm beginning to see it. Coulson is becoming Ward.


Honestly, it's because of this that I'm losing interest in the show, fast. Sure, they're doing a great job in world-building with the show. Other planets, alien invasions and people with super powers can only hold me so long, though. I can't really attach myself to any of the other characters. Ollie, at least, had a voice of reason in John Diggle. We don't seem to have that in any one character with Agents.

I've been of the opinion that this show should have a revolving door, especially for characters that don't have their origin in a comic. I'm thinking Coulson needs to change for the better, or he needs to go.

As it stands, I don't see characters with characterization. I see names performing actions in a plot because that's what the writers need/want them to do. Coulson and Ward are the biggest offenders.

@ JadeHellbringer
I don't think Fitz was actually trying to kill the thing, merely stop it from reaching the portal before they did.

[Medron Pryde]

I agree.

I don't mind them flirting with darker themes.

But this is far past flirting.

I want to see the Coulson from the movies again, not what he has become the last few episodes...

[DarkISI]

Yeah Coulson is ... not himself. I want him back :(

[Skyth]

Anyone else get a Stargate vibe to this?  Round portals open for limited time that lead to other worlds...wormlike creature that takes over other people's bodies...

[garhkal]

Perhaps Phil's breakdown is only temporary..

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Let's hope so.

[JadeHellbringer]

You know... it wouldn't bother me if it isn't.

Bear with me, I know that sounds weird. Just trust me here.

First, ever read the classic Batman story "The Killing Joke"? The basic story is that the Joker wants to prove to Batman that everybody is just one traumatic moment from becoming just like he is- like THEY are, since he suspects (rightly) that Batman got the way he is the same way. So, he tries to make Jim Gordon his demonstration piece by shooting his daughter. It fails, in the end. But here? Ward actually seems to have (for now) proven The Joker right- because he gave Phil Coulson a very bad day, and Coulson has SNAPPED. I'm fascinated by that- I'm sure the Joker would be as well.

But, that aside. So Phil has gone pretty loco, and that leaves him up in the air as far as his status moving forward as director, even really as a useful member of the team. So what? If this was last season I'd be screaming to get Phil back to normal, but now? I think they could do this without him. Not that I'd WANT that- I love the character, and of course Clark Gregg is contracted for the foreseeable future to be in this thing. But if he left right now, if Coulson handed in his lanyard and sauntered off to do something else with his life, I think the team- and the show- would do just fine without him. They've built their cast out into something that could survive it now- the characters have backstories, motivations, personalities all their own enough to make it happen. Really- attempting that midway through last season would have been the death of the show, but now that we have so much more established for people like Mack, Bobbi, etc., to say nothing of the season-1 people like May, it's possible they could pull it off, make Coulson into a background kind of guy the way they sort of have with Daisy/Skye, and leave it at that moving forward.

...Of course, with The Warding Dead now on Earth and Malik's plan (whatever it is) moving forward, that's not going to happen, but it's intriguing to consider, at least.

(Also, am I the only person who hopes Coulson makes an appearance in Civil War, if for no other reason to just let Stark and Rodgers know "Hey, actually I'm alive, and you're both acting like idiots. Just sayin'.")

[monbvol]

I'd love for Coulson to show up again in the MCU and that would be fairly fitting for him.

[DarkISI]

(Also, am I the only person who hopes Coulson makes an appearance in Civil War, if for no other reason to just let Stark and Rodgers know "Hey, actually I'm alive, and you're both acting like idiots. Just sayin'.")

Such a scene would be gold
Just imagining their faces ... :D

[Medron Pryde]

Coulson - "Guys?  Really?  I thought we were friends."

Stark - "We were."

Rogers - "He keeps harping on that."

Coulson - "Seriously.  You're so socially dysfunctional you MAKE your own friends."

Rogers - "And look how well THAT worked out for us."

Stark - "It's a fair point."

Rogers - "Wait...aren't you dead?"

Coulson - "Guess I owe May a fiver.  I thought you'd ask about that right away."

[JadeHellbringer]

Coulson - "Guys?  Really?  I thought we were friends."

Stark - "We were."

Rogers - "He keeps harping on that."

Coulson - "Seriously.  You're so socially dysfunctional you MAKE your own friends."

Rogers - "And look how well THAT worked out for us."

Stark - "It's a fair point."

Rogers - "Wait...aren't you dead?"

Coulson - "Guess I owe May a fiver.  I thought you'd ask about that right away."

"Also who got blood all over my card collection? For someone who got pissy at me about wanting a fish tank on the old Bus, Fury sure doesn't care about OTHER people's property, does he?"

[GreenDragon]

So Coulson barely knew her, had only slept with her a couple of times.  And it was only in the last couple episodes (days) that he knew he could actually trust her.  Is that enough for him to be this affected?

It seems very rushed to me.

[Marwynn]

He fell for her. That's gotta be rare for a man like Coulson. She was his equal in many ways and you can't really count what someone like that will do when you mix in a big bag of walking regret like Ward.

He's frustrated with the loss of his hand, the murders of the Inhumans, Hydra screwing things up yet again, and then this. Throw in Fitzsimmons getting kidnapped and it was bound to have pushed him over.

That ending though, that was dark. I'm reminded of Pratchet: "f a man has you entirely at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you're going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat.

They'll watch you squirm. They'll put off the moment of murder like another man will put off a good cigar.

So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word.”

[Liam's Ghost]

Anybody else getting Nyarlethotep vibes from "it"? The power isn't what it can do, it's what it can make others do? Did marvel comics ever dip into Lovecraft's work for their comics?

So Coulson barely knew her, had only slept with her a couple of times.  And it was only in the last couple episodes (days) that he knew he could actually trust her.  Is that enough for him to be this affected?

It seems very rushed to me.

The earliest part of the relationship is often the most emotionally intense. It's only later on that the endorphins die down and you settle into a more comfortable state.

Alternately, Coulson had already decided Ward needed to die before this. The only change was that he took a personal role. It's not just Roslyn, it's that plus everything else Ward had done. Ward needed killing.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

He fell for her. That's gotta be rare for a man like Coulson. She was his equal in many ways and you can't really count what someone like that will do when you mix in a big bag of walking regret like Ward.

He's frustrated with the loss of his hand, the murders of the Inhumans, Hydra screwing things up yet again, and then this. Throw in Fitzsimmons getting kidnapped and it was bound to have pushed him over.

Starting a relationship with her was also the first personal thing he's done for himself since Loki spiked him.

[garhkal]

I'd love for Coulson to show up again in the MCU and that would be fairly fitting for him.

I am actually surprised he has NOT shown up in any of the MCU movies since his last outing in avengers 1... 

He fell for her. That's gotta be rare for a man like Coulson. She was his equal in many ways and you can't really count what someone like that will do when you mix in a big bag of walking regret like Ward.

He's frustrated with the loss of his hand, the murders of the Inhumans, Hydra screwing things up yet again, and then this. Throw in Fitzsimmons getting kidnapped and it was bound to have pushed him over.

That ending though, that was dark. I'm reminded of Pratchet: "f a man has you entirely at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you're going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat.

They'll watch you squirm. They'll put off the moment of murder like another man will put off a good cigar.

So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word.”

From the way some on other sites described it, it almost seemed to me as they were saying phil actually Punched his fist THROUGH Grants chest.  Not just used his hand to press down on it till it caved in..

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

BTW, anyone else wish that someone had pointed out to Mack that there had been an ancient alien god running around smacking things with a hammer?

[garhkal]

You would have thought he already knew that with out needing to be reminded.

[The Eagle]

I'd love for Coulson to show up again in the MCU and that would be fairly fitting for him.

Unfortunately for that idea, I remember reading somewhere that Joss Whedon disagreed with the idea of bringing Coulson back from the dead and stated that he'd never let him into "his" MCU films.

[Liam's Ghost]

Unfortunately for that idea, I remember reading somewhere that Joss Whedon disagreed with the idea of bringing Coulson back from the dead and stated that he'd never let him into "his" MCU films.

It was his idea in the first place. And as for "his" films, Age of Ultron was his last one. Joss Whedon isn't actually the master of the MCU.

[GreenDragon]

That doesn't make much sense - since it is his family running AoS.  Jed Whedon and his wife Maurissa.

[garhkal]

Plus phil was one of the very few actors to cross into most of the prior films before the first avengers. He was in both IM 1 and 2, Incredable hulk, and Thor..  Though i noted in his IMDB he was not in Captain america 1..

[Liam's Ghost]

That doesn't make much sense - since it is his family running AoS.  Jed Whedon and his wife Maurissa.

He does express regret about the decision to bring Phil back, but that only extends to not referencing him in Age of Ultron.