Wrong .mtf-files

[Clavius1]

I work on own MekWars server and once I noticed that some units may be incorrect. I've started checking all files, I compare BV with MUL data, and then check unit by its source.
There's list with description, what must be right:
1) Annihilator ANH-3A - compact engine, only 5 t of ammo (all in RT) and with CASE, only 12 DHS (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
2) Argus AGS-5D - two armor points must be allocated to RT and LT, one to each (RS3067 U); fixed in 0.41.17
3) Assassin Servitor - one armor point must be allocated to head (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
4) Atlas C - mixed (base I.S.) (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.19
5) Banshee BNC-5S (Vandergriff) - +1 DHS, -1 t LB-X 10 ammo (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
6) Banshee BNC-7S - four armor points: one to LT, RT, CT, CTR (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
7) Banshee BNC-9S - totally wrong weapon distribution, better look in RS (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.15
8) Behemoth (Stone Rhino) 5 - two armor point must be allocated to legs (RS3055 UU);
9) Blue Flame BLF-40 - Medium VSP Laser must have rear facing (RS3067 U); fixed in 0.41.17
10) Bowman 4 - +2 A-Pods, -1 DHS (RS3067 U); fixed in 0.41.17
11) Brigand LDT-X4 - +0.5 t of armor, add 3 to HD, 2 to each arm, 1 to each leg, 1 to CTR and remove 2 from CT (RS3067 U); fixed in 0.41.19
12) Caesar CES-3R Archangel - +1 t of armor, add 5 to LT, 5 to RT, 2 to CT, and 1 to each arm and leg (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
13) Caesar CES-3S - ERSL must have rear facing (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
14) Caesar CES-4R - totally wrong weapon distribution, better look in RS (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
15) Cataphract CTF-5D - just wrong: lacks stealth armor, DHS, etc, better look in RS (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
16) Catapult CPLT-K2K - +4 t of armor, -4 JJ (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.15
17) Catapult CPLT-K3 - +1 t of armor (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.15
18) Celerity CLR-05-X - 240 XXL engine , composite structure (TR3145 RotS); fixed in 0.41.17
19) Centurion CN9-YLW2 - 200 XL engine, standard structure, -0.5 t of armor (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
20) Charger CGR-2A2 - one armor point must be allocated to CT (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
21) Crockett CRK-5005-1 - SRM4 & ammo must be replaced with MML3 with 2 t of ammo (RS3050 UU-C); fixed in 0.41.17
22) Exterminator EXT-4A - increase half ton MG ammo to full ton, -0.5 t of armor (RS3050 UU-C); fixed in 0.41.17
23) Fafnir FNR-5WB - place 1 t of Plasma Rifle ammo into HD (RS3067 U); fixed in 0.41.17
24) Firefly FFL-4D - one armor point must be allocated to HD (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
25) Firefly FFL-4DA - one armor point must be allocated to HD (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
26) Firestarter FS9-B - wrong weapon distribution, better look in RS (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
27) Flashman FLS-C - one ML in RT must have rear facing (RS3050 UU-C); fixed in 0.41.17
28) Gladiator GLD-2R - +5 HS, -SRM6 & ammo (RS3075 U-AoW); fixed in 0.41.17
29) Gladiator GLD-5R - just wrong: engine, gyro, equipment, etc., better look in RS (RS3075 U-AoW); fixed in 0.41.17
30) Grand Dragon DRG-9KC - remove 2 armor points from CT, add 1 to LT, 1 to RT, 2 to LA, 2 to RA, 3 to LL, 4 to RL (yes, asymmetric distribution), remove 4 from CTR, and 3 from LTR and RTR (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
31) Hatchetman HCT-6S - add 2 armor point to CT, and 1 to each LA, RA, LL, RL, LTR, RTR (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
32) Hellfire - one armor point must be allocated to CTR (RS3067 U); fixed in 0.41.17
33) Hellfire 2 - one armor point must be allocated to CTR (RS3067 U); fixed in 0.41.17
34) Hellspawn HSN-10G - one armor point must be allocated to CTR (RS3067 U); fixed in 0.41.17
35) Hercules Julius - both SPL must have rear facing (RS UM); fixed in 0.41.17
36) Hermes HER-1Sb - add flamer to RA (RS OK); fixed in 0.41.19
37) Hermes II HER-5SA - add 0.5 t of armor (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
38) Highlander HGN-738 - +1 armor point to CT, -1 to CTR (RS3050 UU-С); fixed in 0.41.17
39) Hornet HNT-181 - replace SL by ERSL (XTRO RotS 2); fixed in 0.41.17
40) Hussar HSR-950-D - replace L-PPC by SN-PPC (RS3050 UU-С); fixed in 0.41.17
41) Jade Hawk JHK-04 - one armor point must be allocated to CTR (TR3145 ME); fixed in 0.41.17
42) JagerMech JM7-G - just missed (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.15
43) Javelin JVN-11B - add 1 t of armor (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.17
44) Juggernaut JG-R9T2/JG-R9T3/JG-R9TX1 - wrong BV, I think because MML wrong calculation for coolant pods (RS3055 UU);
45) Kodiak II 2 - wrong BV, I think because MML is doing wrong calculation for HarJel III (RS3145 TC);
46) Koschei KSC-5I - one armor point must be allocated to each location: LL, RL, CT, LTR, RTR (RS3075 U-AoW); fixed in 0.41.17
47) Koschei KSC-5MC - one armor point must be allocated to each location: LL, RL, CT, LTR, RTR (RS3075 U-AoW); fixed in 0.41.17
48) Kraken-XR - wrong BV, because MML count (and save) laser HS as single strength (XTRO Clans);
49) Kuma 4 - wrong BV, I think because MML is doing wrong calculation for HarJel II (RS3145 NTNU);
50) Legacy LGC-04-WVR - +1 DHS, -0.5 t of armor (RS3067 U); fixed in 0.41.19
51) Lich UABM-2R - wrong BV, I think because MML is doing wrong calculation for HarJel II (XTRO RotS III);
52) Locust LCT-1Vb - one armor point must be allcated to HD, two to LA and two to RA (RS OK); fixed in 0.41.17
53) Mad Cat II - wrong BV, I think because MML is doing wrong calculation for HarJel III (RS3145 NTNU);
54) Malice MAL-YZ - wrong designation (must be YZ instead XY), remove 0.5 t of armor, engine must be armored (RS3145 RotS); fixed in 0.41.19
55) Man O'War C - remove 1 A-Pod, add ERSL to CT (RS3050 UU-С);
57) Mortis (both) - can't understand situation, MML sho one BV value, MUL - second and TRO contains third (TR3145 CC);
58) No-Dachi NDA-2KO - both ERML must have forward facing (RS3067 U); fixed in 0.41.19
59) Omen 2 - wrong BV, I think because MML is doing wrong calculation for HarJel III (RS3145 NTNU);
60) Onager 2 - wrong BV, I think because MML is doing wrong calculation for HarJel II (RS3145 NTNU);
61) Orion ON1-K (Kerensky) - armor must be FF, same tonnage, so +2 pts to LA & RA, +7 pts to CT, +3 pts to LL, RL, LTR, RTR, also there must be lower arms actuators (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.19
62) Osteon F - add 2 t RAC ammo to RT, decrease amount of MG ammo to 0.5 t, RS says it must be full ton, but it's overweight (WoRS); fixed in 0.41.19
63) Parash 3 - wrong BV, probably because of experimental tech of whole mech (XTRO RotS III);
64) Patriot PKM-2C - allocate 2 pts of armor to LTR and RTR (RS3075 U-CE); fixed in 0.41.19
65) Patriot PKM-2D - remove 1 t of armor, remove 2 t of LB 20-X AC ammo, swap gyro type to Heavy Duty (RS3075 U-CE); fixed in 0.41.19
66) Patriot PKM-2E - remove 1.5 t of armor, remove ECM, swap gyro type to Heavy Duty (RS3075 U-CE); fixed in 0.41.19
67) Pillager PLG-4X Anvil - wrong BV, I think because MML wrong calculation for coolant pods (XTRO CC);
68) Poseidon PSD-V2 - wrong BV, maybe wrong calculation in MML, because of experimental loadout (TR3145 RotS);
69) Gun GN-2OB - has filename GN-2OC.mtf
70) Thanatos - all models designated as THS instead of TNS (RS3067 U); fixed in 0.41.20
71) Ryoken III-XP - wrong BV calculation, I think it's because Interface cockpit (XTRO RotS III);
72) Sagittaire SGT-14D - wrong BV calculation, I think because MML is doing wrong calculation for Radical Heatsink System (RS3145 NTNU); fixed in 0.41.21
73) Shiro SH-2P - wrong BV, I think because MML wrong calculation for coolant pods (TR3145 DC);
74) Shogun C - allocate 4 pts of armor to CT, 2 pts to both LA & RA (RS3050 UU-I);
75) Shugosha  - all models, add 1 pts of armor to CTR (RS VA);
76) Spindrift Aquatic SecurityMech SDT-1A - swap SRM ammo with SRT, armor must be Heavy Industrial (5,5 t), remove 3 pts from HD, add 4 pts to LA and RA (TR Prototypes);
77) Spindrift Aquatic SecurityMech SDT-1 - wrong BV, maybe wrong calculation in MML, because of experimental loadout (XTRO Boondocks);
78) Stalker STK-3F (Jamison) - Clan techbase, not Mixed (I.S.) (RS3050 UU-I); fixed in 0.41.20 same issue
79) Stealth STH-5X - Composite structure, IS FF armor (remove 2 pts from LA, RA, LL, RL, CT) (XTRO Steiner);
80) Stiletto STO-6X - add 1 pts of armor to LA & RA (XTRO Steiner);
81) Tenshi TN-10OA - wrong BV, I think because MML wrong calculation for coolant pods (TR3145 DC);
82) Longbow LGB-14C2 - add C3 Boosted Slave to HD (RS3145 NTNU);
83) Tomahawk II Prime - add one heatsink (it's missed on record sheet too, but there's right BV and overall HS quantity) (TR3145 TC);
84) Trebuchet TBT-3C - remove 1.5 t of armor, add 2nd CASE to LT and 1 t of Artemis-capable ammo, wrong equipment distribution (RS3050 UU-I);
85) Trebuchet TBT-8B - remove 0.5 t of armor, IS must be Endo-Steel, engine rating must be 300 (speed profile 6/9/5), wrong equipment distribution (RS3050 UU-I);
86) Vindicator VND-3LD (Dao) - add Laser AMS (IS) (XTRO Liao)
87) Whitworth WTH-3 - remove 2 t of LRM ammo, structure must be Standard (RS3050 UU-I);
88) Whitworth WTH-K - remove both ERML, structure must be Standard (RS3050 UU-I);
89) Wolfhound WLF-2X - one armor point must be allcated to CTR (XTRO Mercs);
90) Wolf Trap WFT-2 - remove 2 ERML, add 2 t of Plasma Rifle ammo to RA (RS3050 UU-I);
91) Zeus ZEU-9T - one armor point must be allcated to CT (RS3050 UU-I);
92) Caesar CES-3S - CASE in RT is missing (RS3050 UU-I);
93) Firefly FFL-4DA - wrong duplicate .mtf in Wolf and Blake folder (RS3050 UU-I);


I contacted ralgith, he told me start a thread here and post all errors which I found. I hope this information will be usable for MM developers.
UPD: struck out fixed mechs
UPD2: added mechs #43-66, there's no mech #56  :))
UPD3: struck out mechs fixed in 0.41.17
UPD4: mech will be fixed in next release, has BV issue with coolant pods or HarJel II/III, loadout is experimental and need manual check

[Hammer]

I'll have a look

[GreekFire]

Clavius, which version are you using? I ask because I've spotted a few of these before (like the Banshee -9S and Catapult -K2K); checking now, they appear to be fixed in 0.41.15

Hammer, if you'd like I'll check the relevant errata threads and email you the final fixes to those 'Mechs.

[GreekFire]

First thing to verify: my copy of RS:3055Uu doesn't have the Behemoth 5. Current armor layout in megamek is legal, adding two more points would give it too much armor for its tonnage spent. Errata thread mentions bringing both legs up to 35 points, but that would also make it overweight. Dunno what the proper layout would be here.

[Hammer]

Hammer, if you'd like I'll check the relevant errata threads and email you the final fixes to those 'Mechs.

That would be great. RL still has be very bogged down.

[Clavius1]

Clavius, which version are you using? I ask because I've spotted a few of these before (like the Banshee -9S and Catapult -K2K); checking now, they appear to be fixed in 0.41.15

Hammer, if you'd like I'll check the relevant errata threads and email you the final fixes to those 'Mechs.

Currently I have near at hand:
MML: 0.1.43-dev
MM: 0.41.7
But I checked with more recent version. I'll re-check them now with current version.

[GreekFire]

Done! Sent email with changes. Skipped over a few that had already been done as of 41.15, corrected a couple that had gotten errata. Checked the armor values for nearly all of them with SSW, things (mostly) came out correctly.

Clavius, only thing that won't be done is the JM6-G...because I'm not sure it exists. Can't find it on the MUL, nor in the record sheets. Are you thinking of the JM-7G?

Thanks for sharing this, man. I've only been stumbling across mistakes by chance, it's nice to have this comprehensive list done with.

[Clavius1]

Done! Sent email with changes. Skipped over a few that had already been done as of 41.15, corrected a couple that had gotten errata. Checked the armor values for nearly all of them with SSW, things (mostly) came out correctly.

Clavius, only thing that won't be done is the JM6-G...because I'm not sure it exists. Can't find it on the MUL, nor in the record sheets. Are you thinking of the JM-7G?

Thanks for sharing this, man. I've only been stumbling across mistakes by chance, it's nice to have this comprehensive list done with.

I'm glad I helped someone with this bughunting. :)
I can't realize where I got info for Behemoth 5, can't find it anywhere, except MUL with erroneous reference to RS3055. But it really lacked 2 pts of armor (16.5 t str armor= 264 pts, not 262).
And yes, JM7-G. It was just missed in my old version.
I'll check all mechs from MML library, and even vees too! Just need some time. :)

[Hammer]

I'm glad I helped someone with this bughunting. :)
I can't realize where I got info for Behemoth 5, can't find it anywhere, except MUL with erroneous reference to RS3055. But it really lacked 2 pts of armor (16.5 t str armor= 264 pts, not 262).
And yes, JM7-G. It was just missed in my old version.
I'll check all mechs from MML library, and even vees too! Just need some time. :)

Thanks for hunting these down. I did a pass a few years ago and fixed a bunch. Any others you find please post them here.

[Clavius1]

Added some mechs, need developers response.

[nckestrel]

I can't realize where I got info for Behemoth 5, can't find it anywhere, except MUL with erroneous reference to RS3055.

RS 3055 Upgrade Unabridged p212.

[Hammer]

Added some mechs, need developers response.

Could you please list the added units in a separate post.  Its easier to see what needs to be looked at that way.

Also if you check the errata thread for the MUL you'll notice a lot of BV values are coming from them using SSW which hasn't been updated to include the TSM BV changes where MML has.  I'll bet a lot of the units mentioned the MUL is wrong.

Thanks

[nckestrel]

Could you please list the added units in a separate post.  Its easier to see what needs to be looked at that way.

Also if you check the errata thread for the MUL you'll notice a lot of BV values are coming from them using SSW which hasn't been updated to include the TSM BV changes where MML has.  I'll bet a lot of the units mentioned the MUL is wrong.

Thanks

We used both (I know, since I was the one that enter most of the BVs in the MUL years ago). But the BV updating is entirely manual, so even after MML got fixed, it still requires somebody on the MUL to realize it needs updating and to update it. 

IE. It's a MUL labor issue, not a blame SSW or MML issue. 

[Clavius1]

Could you please list the added units in a separate post.  Its easier to see what needs to be looked at that way.

Also if you check the errata thread for the MUL you'll notice a lot of BV values are coming from them using SSW which hasn't been updated to include the TSM BV changes where MML has.  I'll bet a lot of the units mentioned the MUL is wrong.

Thanks

I thought so. I was looking in the errata, but found nothing about TSM, so I will be grateful if someone point me to this change. As I understand old BV calculated with TSM "off", and new - as if it was "on". What's about MUL - I've been checking units using MUL only as reference, if I've found wrong BV, I'm checking it with original source (RS or TRO).
I'll remove all TSM-"bugged" mechs, only will check it one more time. And what's about HarJel? I think, situation is same as with TSM?

[Clavius1]

...

[Hammer]

I thought so. I was looking in the errata, but found nothing about TSM, so I will be grateful if someone point me to this change. As I understand old BV calculated with TSM "off", and new - as if it was "on". What's about MUL - I've been checking units using MUL only as reference, if I've found wrong BV, I'm checking it with original source (RS or TRO).
I'll remove all TSM-"bugged" mechs, only will check it one more time. And what's about HarJel? I think, situation is same as with TSM?

I don't remember when they errata'd the TSM but it was last summer sometime you'd have to poke around the errata threads to find it.  About the only time I look at BV is when building the units to add.

If it was me the order I would use for dealing with BV issues is:

Check MUL ----> Compare to MM ---->If error build by hand ---->post to errata to get the MUL to confirm ---->If MM is wrong post a bug report to the tracker

As for Harjel I don't do the code part of MM so there could be a bug, your best bet is to confirm the calculations are off and open a bug report about it.  Most of Harjel stuff was implemented via patch so they might have missed a calculation of BV.

But I'm buried with RL right now and will look at the rest of the units at some point.


Update:

FIXED
4) Atlas C - mixed (base I.S.) (RS3050 UU-I); - FIXED
8) Behemoth (Stone Rhino) 5 - two armor point must be allocated somewhere (don't know source for this mech); - MATCHES THE RS IN 3055U
11) Brigand LDT-X4 - +0.5 t of armor, add 3 to HD, 2 to each arm, 1 to each leg, 1 to CTR and remove 2 from CT (RS3067 U);
36) Hermes HER-1Sb - add flamer to RA (RS OK); -FIXED
50) Legacy LGC-04-WVR - +1 DHS, -0.5 t of armor (RS3067 U); - FIXED
54) Malice MAL-YZ - wrong designation (must be YZ instead XY), remove 0.5 t of armor, engine must be armored (RS3145 RotS); -FIXED
58) No-Dachi NDA-2KO - both ERML must have forward facing (RS3067 U); - FIXED
61) Orion ON1-K (Kerensky) - armor must be FF, same tonnage, so +2 pts to LA & RA, +7 pts to CT, +3 pts to LL, RL, LTR, RTR, also there must be lower arms actuators ((RS3050 UU-I); - FIXED
62) Osteon F - add 2 t RAC ammo to RT, decrease amount of MG ammo to 0.5 t, RS says it must be full ton, but it's overweight (WoRS); - FIXED
64) Patriot PKM-2C - allocate 2 pts of armor to LTR and RTR (RS3075 U-CE); - FIXED
65) Patriot PKM-2D - remove 1 t of armor, remove 2 t of LB 20-X AC ammo, swap gyro type to Heavy Duty (RS3075 U-CE); - FIXED
66) Patriot PKM-2E - remove 1.5 t of armor, remove ECM, swap gyro type to Heavy Duty (RS3075 U-CE); - FIXED

COOLANT PODS (But I think MML is missing the -1 Defense BV per location)
44) Juggernaut JG-R9T2/JG-R9T3/JG-R9TX1 - wrong BV, I think because MML wrong calculation for coolant pods (RS3055 UU);

HARJEL (But I think MML is missing the -1 Defense BV per location)
45) Kodiak II 2 - wrong BV, I think because MML is doing wrong calculation for HarJel III (RS3145 TC);
49) Kuma 4 - wrong BV, I think because MML is doing wrong calculation for HarJel II (RS3145 NTNU);
51) Lich UABM-2R - wrong BV, I think because MML is doing wrong calculation for HarJel II (XTRO RotS III);
53) Mad Cat II - wrong BV, I think because MML is doing wrong calculation for HarJel III (RS3145 NTNU);
59) Omen 2 - wrong BV, I think because MML is doing wrong calculation for HarJel III (RS3145 NTNU);
60) Onager 2 - wrong BV, I think because MML is doing wrong calculation for HarJel II (RS3145 NTNU);


EXPERIMENTAL LOADOUT
(you’re going to need to more specific with these – I’d suggest building by hand and comparing and should be posted to Errata Thread for clarification
)
48) Kraken-XR - wrong BV, maybe wrong calculation in MML, because of experimental loadout (XTRO Clans);
57) Mortis (both) - can't understand situation, MML shows one BV value, MUL - second and TRO contains third (TR3145 CC);
63) Parash 3 - wrong BV, probably because of experimental tech of whole mech (XTRO RotS III);

[Clavius1]

Thank you very much for fast feedback! I'll keep list updated.

[Clavius1]

Added some new errors.

[Hammer]

Added some new errors.

I've fixed the Stone Rhino.

But you'll need to refer to:

If it was me the order I would use for dealing with BV issues is:

Check MUL ----> Compare to MM ---->If error build by hand ---->post to errata to get the MUL to confirm ---->If MM is wrong post a bug report to the tracker

EXPERIMENTAL LOADOUT
(you’re going to need to more specific with these – I’d suggest building by hand and comparing and should be posted to Errata Thread for clarification
)
48) Kraken-XR - wrong BV, maybe wrong calculation in MML, because of experimental loadout (XTRO Clans);
57) Mortis (both) - can't understand situation, MML shows one BV value, MUL - second and TRO contains third (TR3145 CC);
63) Parash 3 - wrong BV, probably because of experimental tech of whole mech (XTRO RotS III);

As I mention here you're going to need to provide more specific details on the Experimental loadouts and any of the BV calculations. There are a lot of moving parts in BV calculations and we need to see specifically where the issue is.  That can only be done with a hand build of the units.

I'm just two swamped to hand build this many units to determine the specific BV issues.  Especially when the error might not be in MM but within the MUL.

[neoancient]

I fixed the BV calculations for HarJel II/III, coolant pods, and interface cockpit, though the Ryoken III-XP still does not match the values shown on the MUL.

[Clavius1]

I've fixed the Stone Rhino.

But you'll need to refer to:
As I mention here you're going to need to provide more specific details on the Experimental loadouts and any of the BV calculations. There are a lot of moving parts in BV calculations and we need to see specifically where the issue is.  That can only be done with a hand build of the units.

I'm just two swamped to hand build this many units to determine the specific BV issues.  Especially when the error might not be in MM but within the MUL.

As for now I've finished with mech (so long just because it's only part of my own project), I'll try to figure out what's broken in calculactions. At this moment I'm sure only with Kraken-XR: if you switch to laser HS, their strenght remains the same as for previous option. If you manually choose DHS, then switch to LHS, BV calculation will be right. But when you save and load this unit - LHS will be = SHS, and calculation in all instances will be done as for SHS.