Author Topic: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions  (Read 12007 times)

pheonixstorm

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Re: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions
« Reply #30 on: 05 April 2016, 10:13:39 »
Thats why I usually ignore kill % and just kill everything. Salvage is good :)

Kentares

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Re: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions
« Reply #31 on: 05 April 2016, 10:28:07 »
Thats why I usually ignore kill % and just kill everything. Salvage is good :)

I know but i usually (to simulate the table top roleplay) try to comply with the victory conditions as one would do if it was a live opponent  or playing a scenario book.
Star Wars ST and Star Trek current shows are crap.

pheonixstorm

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Re: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions
« Reply #32 on: 05 April 2016, 10:51:03 »
That works as well, but do you always want to stop when you have a basic win? In this way I follow the Total War victory conditions as set forth by the Roman Commanders and "bathe in a sea of blood".  >:D

Kentares

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Re: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions
« Reply #33 on: 05 April 2016, 13:28:01 »
I try to stop but it wasn't the first time that I got a bit enthusiastic and noticed late that I already got past the winning condition a long time ago...  [skull]
Star Wars ST and Star Trek current shows are crap.

Akjosch

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Re: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions
« Reply #34 on: 06 April 2016, 03:21:19 »
So, here are my notes so far. Those are "atomic" options (which means that they are simple enough to check that I don't see the need to subdivide them any further). Many of the suggested conditions are a combination of them:

Objectives
* All of them also have the corresponding reverse available, where possible ("prevent enemy from ...")
* Victory and defeat can have quality applied to them based on the amount of objectived reached by each side
* Option for all: Until turn T
* Option for all: After turn T

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Destroy X% enemy force
* Choice: Percentage determined by BV value, unit count, tonnage or personnel count
* Option: Percentage weighted by unit type (example: 100% 'Mech, 50% tank, 0% infantry)
* Option: Fled units count as either "dead" or "alive"
* Option: Applies per-team or per-player

Keep X% of own force alive
* Choice: Percentage determined by BV value, unit count, tonnage or personnel count
* Option: Percentage weighted by unit type (example: 100% 'Mech, 50% tank, 0% infantry)
* Option: Fled units count as either "dead" or "alive"
* Option: Applies per-team or per-player

Destroy X% of marked units ("civilian convoy" and the like)
* Choice: Percentage determined by BV value, unit count, tonnage or personnel count

Flee with X% of marked units
* Choice: Percentage determined by BV value, unit count, tonnage or personnel count
* Option: From specific edge
* Option: Applies per-team or per-player

Hold position P (a group of hexes marked on the map) free of enemy units
* Option: Only care about specific unit types

Have an unit reach position P
* Option: Percentage of hexes in P to visit ("scouting mission")
* Option: Applies per-team or per-player

Control majority of position P ("control" is exerted by each unit as an influence/heat map)
* Option: Influence weighted by unit type (example: 50% 'Mech, 25% tank, 0% aero, 100% infantry)

Destroy X% of features in position P
* Choice: Percentage determined by feature hexes, destroyed feature's initial CF or feature count
* Choice: Any combination of destroyable features (buildings, bridges, woods, ...)

Destroy X% of marked features
* Choice: Percentage determined by feature hexes, destroyed feature's initial CF or feature count
* Choice: Any combination of destroyable features (buildings, bridges, woods, ...)

Flee with X% of designated cargo (placed on board or in cargo carriers)
* Choice: By tonnage or by item count
* Option: From specific edge

Fulfil X objectives (X can be "all")

Objective exclusion: Fulfil objective A or objective B, but not both
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Kentares

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Re: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions
« Reply #35 on: 06 April 2016, 04:42:30 »
Looks very good Akjosch. I believe that covers all of the easy ones :D
Star Wars ST and Star Trek current shows are crap.

scJazz

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Re: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions
« Reply #36 on: 06 April 2016, 08:54:05 »

Vampire_Seraphin

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Re: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions
« Reply #37 on: 06 April 2016, 12:45:08 »
Those would be a huge improvement for running more complex games.

scJazz

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Re: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions
« Reply #38 on: 06 April 2016, 12:57:26 »
Flee with X% of marked units
* Choice: Percentage determined by BV value, unit count, tonnage or personnel count
* Option: From specific edge
* Option: Applies per-team or per-player

Flee with X% of marked units
* Choice: Percentage determined by BV value, unit count, tonnage or personnel count
* Option: From specific edge
* Option: Applies per-team or per-player

I think there is one more option here. It sort of applies to both the above. Keep N unit(s) alive until end. They don't have to flee, and maybe shouldn't for the situation. They just have to be alive at the end of the game.


Kentares

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Re: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions
« Reply #39 on: 06 April 2016, 13:12:58 »
Those would be a huge improvement for running more complex games.

Yes and can even be used for space battles (not counting AI of course).
Star Wars ST and Star Trek current shows are crap.

BLOODWOLF

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Re: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions
« Reply #40 on: 06 April 2016, 13:48:04 »
I hope you can make this happen.  So will there be an option where we can pick the hexes/buildings or have MM determine them for objectives without having to have pre-built maps?  Or too soon to tell maybe?

Akjosch

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Re: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions
« Reply #41 on: 06 April 2016, 14:08:29 »
I think there is one more option here. It sort of applies to both the above. Keep N unit(s) alive until end. They don't have to flee, and maybe shouldn't for the situation. They just have to be alive at the end of the game.

I'm modifying and expanding the initial list as we speak, among other things adding an option to the fleeing units to either not count at all, count as "lost" or count as "alive" (instead of just the latter two). The "keep alive" and "destroy" can also apply to marked unit instead of all units of a team or player. Also, if you don't specify the "Until turn T" option, it just means "until the end of the game", so for a "flee with the vip units" type of scenario ...

Fulfil 2 objectives:
* Flee with X% of marked units (mark="vip_units", by unit count, no turn limits)
* Keep X% of of marked units alive (mark="vip_units", by unit count, fled units count as alive, no turn limits)

Or, if you want to just have a "keep units alive until other objectives are done":

Fulfil all objectives:
* Keep X% of of marked units alive (mark="vip_units", by unit count, fled units count as dead, no turn limits)
* (other objectives here)

Or, "keep units alive until two out of three objectives are done":

Fulfil all objectives:
* Keep X% of of marked units alive (mark="vip_units", by unit count, fled units count as dead, no turn limits)
* Fulfil 2 (out of the three) objectives:
** Objective 1
** Objective 2
** Objective 3

(The "Fulfil 2 (out of the three) objectives" is just another compound objective itself, after all)

... unless I misunderstood something.

I hope you can make this happen.  So will there be an option where we can pick the hexes/buildings or have MM determine them for objectives without having to have pre-built maps?  Or too soon to tell maybe?

There will probably be two more releases of MM before the victory conditions and objectives become available in MegaMek, and I'm being awfully optimistic here. It's really just brainstorming phase now in the spare time when I can't code. For the positions, those are the options, and we'll see what can be reasonably implemented:

* Marked areas on pre-built maps (needs a slight map editor change, but likely to happen)
* Generator told to mark areas on the (generated or loaded) map according to a bunch of parameters (hard to do in a way which makes sense, might come later)
* Scenario-supplied list of hexes (very likely)
* Player-supplied list of hexes (this needs the most work with the UI, so also probably not likely all that early, aside of maybe a text field to enter hex coordinates ...)
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Kentares

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Re: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions
« Reply #42 on: 06 April 2016, 15:30:02 »
* Player-supplied list of hexes (this needs the most work with the UI, so also probably not likely all that early, aside of maybe a text field to enter hex coordinates ...)

Could be so that after the map size is chosen a small window could open asking the hex(es) coordinates among those available... maybe... just saying...
Star Wars ST and Star Trek current shows are crap.

Akjosch

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Re: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions
« Reply #43 on: 06 April 2016, 16:03:56 »
Could be so that after the map size is chosen a small window could open asking the hex(es) coordinates among those available... maybe... just saying...

I was rather thinking about adding a "Objectives & Victory Conditions" tab to "Select Units" and "Select Maps", and you can chose the hexes there, either predefined (if any places are predefined in the maps you chose), or manually. The game's "Victory Conditions" would then just be the presets for that tab.

But that's still very much in flux and nothing is set in stone.
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BLOODWOLF

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Re: Brainstorming scenario winning conditions
« Reply #44 on: 18 May 2017, 09:14:53 »
This needs more attention.

 

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