Mech vs. Conventional Forces

[primalucem]

In preparation for my first BT campaign, I wanted to try an experiment to see how well a conventional force held up against a lance of mechs.

The results, and some important lessons, here: http://drewtheirplansagainstus.blogspot.com/2016/05/battletech-conventional-forces-vs-mechs.html

[markhall]

An interesting report. I would not have thought the Mechs would have fared so badly.

Did you infantry attempt the swarm the turn they deployed? If memory serves infantry can't make attacks the turn it leaves a transport. Might be worth checking up on.

Also you really should have pursued the Orions open back with the Savannah masters. Given it something to worry about.
What kind of gunners did both sides have?

7) Force composition: The Mech is still clearly the King of the Battlefield, but I think Combined Arms is really what I want, and I think it will win on the table as well. If this force had a mech in the midst, perhaps even just a single Medium, I think it would have changed Fritz's priorities, and given me a better chance to hit him with my more fragile weapons.

Battletech is all about the big Stompy robots but tanks are just as fun. But they can hold their own on mass.

You just had too small a MBT force with 4 mechs on the table. The moment they focused fire you were not going to last against it. Plus Vehicles with their motive crits just don't cut it ton to ton on the battlefield.
Had you been playing a higher tech level. An LB-X would have made short work of your 2 tanks.


Final note.
Love the davion Colors. Very impressive yellows.

[primalucem]

Thanks man, glad you enjoyed! Went full FedSuns on these guys.

Skills were all defaulted to 4 for both sides to make it easy.

Yes, the infantry swarmed same turn, which is definitely not ok via the rules (looked it up after). Personally, I'm pushing my opponent to allow a house rule where infantry deploying from a VTOL via zip lines or jump jets can attempt the anti-mech attack the same turn with a penalty, as it doesn't make sense to land and then climb the mech again. But I love infantry, so I want them to be effective.  :)

I bought what I could with the BV available, sadly, the same amount as the mech player. I'm actually pretty content with the damage I did, considering my pretty major mistakes. If one or two shots had happened differently, the Battlemaster would have gone down I think, and several mechs lost arms and took internal damage.  It encouraged me to try again if nothing else!

The Savannah Masters did indeed go for rear shots almost every time, however there was a moment where they didn't quite reach the rear of the mech, and ended up taking frontal shots against the most damaged one. It did feel like too small a force, honestly, but it was our first time doing a strictly BV based battle.

I'm really only into the SW period, so I'm not worried about advanced tech.

[Force of Nature]

I agree with all of your "lessons learned", but the real problem with the conventional units is timing. You need/must hit the mechs all at the same time with everything. Instead, units were sent in piecemeal leaving the enemy mech lance no other options to shoot at but what was available (like the Mechbuster). With conventional units, giving the enemy too many targets (swarming) at the same time is a good thing.

The Mechbuster, Schrek and Von Luckner are all high threat targets that need to be destroyed in one turn. Expect an "all call" on each of them if sent in piecemeal.

The Schrek should have had at least one more turn before being destroyed. An exposed side (front in this case) needs to be rotated away from the enemy and a new side (right side was untouched) needs to be shot at the next turn. This keeps the vehicle alive for one turn longer. Every point of unused armor is a missed opportunity...

Your assessment of the Von Luckner is okay, but when it gets destroyed at long range (LRMs, PPCs etc...) before it gets into range due to its slow speed, you will see its weakness. That didn't happen in this game, but when it does you will know it. Pairing it with a Schrek couldn't have been a better choice though.

Personally, I would get rid of the Von Luckner and replace it with a Saladin Hovercraft or two (I don't know the point value of them offhand). The Saladin can at least keep up with the Savannah Masters and hit the enemy at the same time with them.

If you are going to need more time to get units into place in order to have all of the conventional units hit the enemy, dropping the infantry in the middle of them is the way to go. The infantry are the real damage magnets and can take two to three turns of damage while the rest move into range. Sucks to be infantry for sure, but that is their job to buy time for the rest of the units to join in a turn or two later. Again, giving too many targets to the enemy mechs at the same time is the key.

Hope this helps is all.

[markhall]

Good Advice out of you "Force".

[primalucem]

Yeah, that is indeed some solid advice and I plan to take it. I actually had a Saladin painted up but went with the Von Luckner for its armor - figured I needed something more survivable to anchor the Schreck. Two Saladins would be a bit more than a Von Luckner, but I might try that sometime soon. More of an all-hover force.  The timing advice is gold I think, and you reinforced what I learned from watching my Mechbuster go down.

As for turning the Schreck, I'm positively kicking myself now. I'll definitely do that next time.  Thanks man!

[markhall]

Skills were all defaulted to 4 for both sides to make it easy.

And he was still able to take out the savanna masters. That's some unfortunate luck. Or someone wasn't rocking the +4 mod hard enough.

[primalucem]

No, not luck. The first three I lost because I parked them out of line of sight of the enemy mechs, waiting for the tanks to catch up before darting the hovers at the enemy rear. Unfortunately, I forgot about the enemy air support, which wiped out half my force in a strafing run before they took their first shot. The next three I lost in the midst of the melee, and again I was stupid and didn't use their full movement.  I really botched the hover craft this game, but it was a great learning experience. If I had done better with them I think I would have claimed at least one more mech.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

A bunch of clustered Savannah Masters is too juicy a target to not bomb.

As for using those Savannah Masters in a whirling skirmish... they got the speed to get into back arcs so you should always be doing so whenever possible.. yeah you can be hard to hit with +4TMM but why not be impossible to hit by not being in the firing arc in the first place?  Of course, when the other guy has more than 1 unit, they can cover each others' rear arcs.  And they will be, if they're being smart.

In those cases, remember that you probably don't need to be at short range.  That +2 for medium range is going to help you more than it helps the other guy (unless you have a minx on minx duel going on..)  And if you're doing medium range shots, 24" distance to target is mathematically the same as 6.1" to target on to-hit numbers.  No need to get overly close!

[Force of Nature]

Good Advice out of you "Force".

Thank you. I have quite a bit of experience with conventional forces for Battletech. In the picture below I have just over seven companies of tanks (on the right) and have used all of them at one point or another in campaigns/games.

Force

[markhall]

. Unfortunately, I forgot about the enemy air support, which wiped out half my force in a strafing run before they took their first shot.

A costly experience. But one I daresay you will not be repeating anytime soon.

yeah you can be hard to hit with +4TMM but why not be impossible to hit by not being in the firing arc in the first place? 

Quoted for truths!

[markhall]

A man after my own Heart "force".
Although that lance of Demolishers II may be a tad overkill.

[Force of Nature]

"Overkill is a sure thing"

From a campaign game about taking a small city.

Me: The city is defended only by a lance of tanks. "What kind of tanks?" the players asked. "Sources within the city claim that there are four Demolisher II's." Player1: "We could just move around and past the city." Player2: "Except that the contract said to secure the city and then move off board to the east..." Player1: "yeah, this is gonna hurt taking the city." Player2: And we don't have infernos..." Player1: "How many assault mechs do we have?" Player2: "Two, which is not enough".

The scenario was a recon in force with no light mechs allowed. The Battlemaster ended movement in the middle of an intersection where three Demolisher IIs were hidden and hull down. The Battlemaster got hit by all six AC20s. The right leg was blown off (crit roll of 12) and the CT, RT and RA all took the rest. The next turn the Battlemaster was hit again with all six AC20s. Three were LBX rounds. Three gyro and two engine hits took the mech out. Three head hits also knocked the pilot out.

The Demolisher IIs did bang up the players a bit, but eventually were destroyed and the city secured. The Battlemaster was out for two weeks while getting repaired, but did return with the pilot.

[primalucem]

Wow Force, that is certainly a lot of firepower.

Good advice folks, I'll take it! 

[Archer_Wirth]

I am very impressed by your photos and report. That being said, were those smoke miniatures you used when a tank was firing, or being fired at? That's super cool, and your photos were great! Love the terrain as well!

 O0 O0

[primalucem]

Thanks man!  In Battletech we use the smoke for where the rounds land, not when they're fired.  In larger scales, like the 20mm I play Spanish Civil War games in, I use white smoke for fired rounds, and (much larger) black smoke for the explosions.

I'm tinkering with ideas for some colored fire markers for lasers and PPCs too. We'll see if they turn out.

[Archer_Wirth]

Thanks man!  In Battletech we use the smoke for where the rounds land, not when they're fired.  In larger scales, like the 20mm I play Spanish Civil War games in, I use white smoke for fired rounds, and (much larger) black smoke for the explosions.

I'm tinkering with ideas for some colored fire markers for lasers and PPCs too. We'll see if they turn out.

That's pretty legit. Maybe one day!