I have been looking for any threads like this one, don't know how I missed it for so long. I'll try my best to answer any questions since I wrote this section.
So as part of a chaos campaign I'm running for my players, we've taken a detour to do a planetary assault campaign since they've been interested in that.
Between them, there's about a battalion of mechs, two companies of combat vehicles and infantry transports, and a company of infantry plus a platoon or two of battle armor.
Looking at the map campaign rules, the actions seem really weird.
You can either move, or choose to attack. When would you ever be able to actually give an attack order? You can't move into a hex occupied by the enemy
Actually, pg 149, left column, right before the examples:
Due to the large size of hexes or Zones, any number of Formations, friendly or enemy, can stack in a single location on a campaign map. Similarly, Formations can only engage in combat with another Formation in the same location.
You may have missed it (it took me a couple of read-throughs to find where it ended up), that's partly due to my fault placing it in the text.
You can either move, or choose to attack. When would you ever be able to actually give an attack order? You can't move into a hex occupied by the enemy and then attack them, so it's just them with a defend order and you with a move order most likely. Same thing with scouting, you can't actually go up into a hex with the enemy in it and give a scouting order. Just by being in the same hex you'll trigger a fight. The only way to scout is to either have a scouting order when the enemy moves into your hex, or to scout the turn after you move there meaning you've already fought them twice and so don't really need to look at their record sheets.
At the upper level of scale, the planetary map sheets, a single hex is 750 km across, plenty of room for multiple large units to be in the same hex without interacting. Now here's where I agree there can be some errata, the last sentence under "Map-Scale Turns" pg 148, really applies to every game type and can be expanded. "Orders are given simultaneously and a battle can only occur if the two units started the turn in the same hex." It's possible a line to that effect was lost in the editing process, or I just kept knowing it in my head without ever adding it to the chapter explicitly, my bad.
Anyway, with the forces my group has, would you break that up into lances or companies?
I would do company-sized units for map-scale turns, that gives you 6-7 total units on the board, or even down to units the size of two lances for a little more flexibility. And don't forget, without any stacking limits, the whole player force could move as one and then split at the last turn to try and flank the enemy.
Next post!
If I understand the forces involved correctly each side has about a reinforced company of mechs, a combat vehicle company and a few platoons of infantry and/or battle armour - about a large mixed battalion each.
If that is correct you could use Battle Force from Strategic Ops, where each hex is 90 meters, the Unit is the manoeuvre piece and individual AS Elements within a lance shoot and take hits. Or you could use Strategic Battle Force from Interstellar Ops where hexes are 500 meters, the company Formation is the manoeuvre piece and SBF Units (Lances) shoot and take damage.
As for the orders I read the rules as stating that combat cannot occur until two forces find each other by moving into the same strategic hex or zone on the strategic map. They can then attack, defend or scout in attempts to discover what the other side has. The 'Repair', 'Move', 'Fast Move', etc. are used when on your strategic map but the opposing forces haven't quite found (or fully identified) each other yet.
Say you're using company-size units for the map-scale. Player A moves a company into a hex and discovers a company or more of Player B's units. Next turn, Player A can subdivide his company into Lances. Then he gives one Lance a Scout order to attempt to discover what the enemy forces are. The other two lances can be given defend or even move orders to get back to cover. With the goal in mind of keeping games fair, fun, & interesting, the Player B will have a similar size opposing force (or proportional given any scenario rules) so the scouting lance has a chance to achieve it's goal.
Next!
I'm not interested in using battleforce, I'm using the campaign operations map campaign rules to generate battletech games.
The move action is used to move between hexes on the map. You can only either do a move action or a combat action in a given turn. But you still roll up a fight if two enemy formations are in the same hex regardless of the orders, taking a combat action just impacts the roll and if you took a scout action you get to see the opponent's record sheets for all units in the hex if you win. But you cannot move and scout in the same turn.
There doesn't have to be a battle if two units are in the same hex, if both are given non-combat or Defend orders. Skipping over the hex size issue, there are plenty of examples where two units were in close proximity, but both had been given defensive orders, rather than attack orders.
And last, but not least
You're definitely correct. This needs to be errata'd. I've sat and read this section like three times now, very carefully, and from start to finish see if there was a information point in an odd place that made it make sense and there isn't. A few observations on it though
1: The language for much of the section is pretty loose in parts and when reading through the examples it seems that certain things are implied while not clearly stated. Such as it stating that combat happens within a strategic turn and that being in the same hex as an enemy unit leads to combat but it not actually stating that combat has to happen if enemies occupy the same hex or that combat happens during the same strategic turn in which enemy forces have entered the same hex, only that combat happens within a strategic turn.
Correct, this was the intent, and like has been pointed out, it wasn't spelled out clearly enough.
2:it states that aerospace formations may move to any hex or zone as part of an attack or scout action but have return to their starting hex/dropship afterwards. It doesn't state anywhere else that any other type of unit can do this or something similar but.....
Something I didn't think of (I haven't used aerospace on ground maps much so it slipped my mind), but was added in the editing/layout process.
3: at the top of Page 150 in the first italicized example it seems to imply that a unit who is "attacking" is also moving as the coyotes are attacking a defending force but this couldn't happen if they had to move independently first. and the third italicized example seems to imply the same thing in that the jade falcons were given an attack order and the comguards were given a scout order when they encountered each other in the same hex...meaning they had to move to a new hex as part of their order? maybe? or they didn't choose to fight when they did move into the same hex in the last strategic turn and waited until they could issues combat orders in the next turn? IDK lol
Not quite. In the first example, the map-scale is planetary, so each planet is considered a single "hex". Looking at the Post-WoR Political Balance Table from pg 249 of Wars of Reaving, the Coyotes and Star Adders each control a portion of Tamaron, so both sides have some units in the same "hex". The Adders only were interested in holding their enclave, but the Coyotes in this example wanted to reclaim Tamaron, so they were given a Scout order to gauge the size of the Star Adder force.
For the other example, both force the turn prior had been given movement orders, to find the enemy which resulted in them landing in the same map location. While the ComGuard force simply wanted to probe the Falcons, not engage in a full-on battle, but the Jade Falcons had been given Attack orders. Since both units started in the same section of the map, they can engage in a battle.
4: This begs the question of why is their a move action at all if scout and attack also require a move. The fact that several things seem to point at scout and attack requiring a move seems to hold less weight because there is in fact a "move" action......
5: unless of course "Move" would indicate that the mobile field command/base was also moving and "attack" and "scout" would be ran similarly to aerospace in that they can pick a surrounding hex to complete that action in (within their strategic movement???) but have to return to the hex that contains their mobile field command/base in order to repair and refit????
6: it is possible that combat does not happen unless one force is given a combat order/command. So 2 forces that are given a move order/command and enter the same force do not trigger a combat because their standing orders don't include rules of engagement/permission to engage?????maybe???
yeah needs to get an errata
Combat does not happen unless one of two opposing units in the same hex is given a Scout or Attack order.
I hope this clears things up some for everyone. I'll stick around and try to answer any other questions as best I can.
