Author Topic: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III  (Read 239589 times)

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #390 on: 27 April 2017, 13:35:27 »
Ok guys, i summon your expertise. Is this a Sherman Firefly? If positive, it is one of the argentinian "Sherman Repotenciados"?



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« Last Edit: 27 April 2017, 13:41:53 by Baldur Mekorig »
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #391 on: 27 April 2017, 13:41:45 »
Ok guys, i summon your expertise. Is this a Sherman Firefly? Is positive, it is one of the argentinian "Sherman Repotenciados"?



Location: Entry of a military neighborhood, Villa Martelli, Buenos Aires Province, Argentina.

I believe it's a Sherman Repotenciado. My google search suggests all of those were converted Fireflies.
« Last Edit: 27 April 2017, 13:48:26 by Liam's Ghost »
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #392 on: 27 April 2017, 13:52:44 »
Picture isn't working for me.
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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #393 on: 27 April 2017, 15:17:23 »
Wrong turret for a Firefly.  Might be an Easy 6.

CDAT

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #394 on: 27 April 2017, 23:13:43 »
I have no hands-on experience with the 105mm. I was in well after the change-over to 120mm on the Abrams, and out before the Stryker MGS actually arrived to troops. But I will say that even a moderately practiced loader wouldn't take more than 3-5 seconds to get a round in the tube, especially once the adrenaline starts pumping. Since that's about the minimum time it'd take a gunner to acquire and lase a target, it worked out fine.
Back when I was in tanks I started with the IPM1 and the slowest we could load and still pass muster was five seconds, a good loader could get the first round in about two, and keep up a rate of one every three tell the ready rack was dry. I remember when we got our A1's and we had so much time to load (I was no longer a loader), it was upped to eight seconds.

ColBosch

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #395 on: 27 April 2017, 23:58:50 »
Back when I was in tanks I started with the IPM1 and the slowest we could load and still pass muster was five seconds, a good loader could get the first round in about two, and keep up a rate of one every three tell the ready rack was dry. I remember when we got our A1's and we had so much time to load (I was no longer a loader), it was upped to eight seconds.

Eight seconds would've been unacceptable by the time I was in. I left OSUT averaging about 4.5 seconds, and am sure I could've gotten it down to 3 seconds reliably if I had gone to a tank unit. I didn't see anyone do two seconds; they started doing times by the ammo door opening and closing.
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CDAT

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #396 on: 28 April 2017, 00:02:34 »
Eight seconds would've been unacceptable by the time I was in. I left OSUT averaging about 4.5 seconds, and am sure I could've gotten it down to 3 seconds reliably if I had gone to a tank unit. I didn't see anyone do two seconds; they started doing times by the ammo door opening and closing.
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ColBosch

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #397 on: 28 April 2017, 10:10:25 »
Our time stopped when "UP" was called.

Oh yeah, rack to UP! in two seconds is still fully doable with 120mm, if you don't care about the ammo door. The big rounds are heavy, but you get used to them. Everyone had to find their own "groove;" me, I'd bounce my knees a little right as the weight of the round hit me, and sort of spring back up as I'd flip it into the breech. It's not something I'd want to do a hundred times in a row, but it worked through a full ready rack.
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #398 on: 28 April 2017, 10:53:58 »
I believe it's a Sherman Repotenciado. My google search suggests all of those were converted Fireflies.


 After some questioning, researching and digging it looks like its one of the Sherman "Repotenciados", with a (locally produced) french 105 mm FTR L44/57 gun and a diesel engine. I am not sure if this is one of those adapted to use the URDAN mineroller. Next time i visited ADACAS y will try to get some more photos.

Edit: A guy in an argentine military forum identidied the tank as an Argentine Sherman Repotenciado, 1978 upgrade with the 105mm gun, diesel engine, radio and smoke grande launcher. Apparently it was a Hibrid M4 Chasis made by Chrysler USa in the 40´s.
« Last Edit: 02 May 2017, 12:00:02 by Baldur Mekorig »
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #399 on: 28 April 2017, 13:42:45 »
so it is basically an independently developed M-51 super-sherman






speaking of shermans.. can anyone tell me which model this one is?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/fun_flying/246252955/in/pool-18887211@N00/
if i had to guess, one of the flamethrower mods, but i'm not sure.

monbvol

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #400 on: 28 April 2017, 14:39:50 »
The turret on that Argentine tank just looks like an early mark Sherman not a late one though.  Which amazes me that they managed to fit that gun in there.

And that would be a British modified M4 "Crocodile".

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #401 on: 28 April 2017, 15:16:21 »
i was under the impression that the Sherman Croc's replaced the hull MG with what was basically a modified infantry flamethrower, with superior tankage. the same as the Churchill Croc's. as seen here:


not the large main gun looking system.

it isn't the M4A3R3 "Zippo" used on iwo Jima though:

that replaced the 75mm gun with a heavy duty flame thrower unit.

it looks rather like a regular sherman fitted with a "zippo" style flame thrower as an add on. maybe the post-war Indian "Adder" refit?

ColBosch

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #402 on: 28 April 2017, 18:04:05 »
That second barrel doesn't look like it's attached to anything, and there's no fuel tanks. My money is on "reenactment prop;" for whatever reason they can't or won't fire pyros through the original barrel, so they added another above it.
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monbvol

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #403 on: 28 April 2017, 19:47:30 »
I can find pictures of it from Company of Heroes(a video game) that call it a M4 Crocodile but yeah nothing from any other source.

Kidd

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #404 on: 28 April 2017, 20:23:35 »
I can find pictures of it from Company of Heroes(a video game) that call it a M4 Crocodile but yeah nothing from any other source.
COH is a great game but the units are slightly tweaked for balance; the M4 Croc had a functioning tank gun, shot flames from the hull MG position and IINM had a fuel trailer behind

monbvol

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #405 on: 28 April 2017, 22:16:24 »
That is kind of the tricky part to me.  The images have that second barrel on the turret and video games tend to at least get visuals right if using real world stuff but I do suspect that it isn't a M4 Crocodile.

ColBosch

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #406 on: 28 April 2017, 23:08:09 »
That is kind of the tricky part to me.  The images have that second barrel on the turret and video games tend to at least get visuals right if using real world stuff but I do suspect that it isn't a M4 Crocodile.

My experience is the exact opposite: video game often get things wrong. For one egregious example, if you look closely at the M4s in the Call of Duty games, their magazines are usually short and straight; that is, the visual model is of the old, not-widely-used-since-Vietnam 20-round magazine.



It's very clear in this in-engine shot, along with the lack of any sort of rear or optical sight.
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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #407 on: 29 May 2017, 11:25:01 »
You folks might like this massive collection of pictures from an arms expo.

http://imgur.com/gallery/2Eg6n
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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #408 on: 06 June 2017, 11:14:17 »
disclaimer: I do not imply any link between the below pic and anything happening in the world at all. nopity nope  O:-)
now that's out of the way...

the next time you read MOTWs complaining about paper for armour, show em this :D allegedly stopped an RPG, but I figure it was a dud.


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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #409 on: 06 June 2017, 11:21:20 »
Whipple shields, not just for NASA! :D
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Grognard

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #410 on: 06 June 2017, 22:10:07 »
73 years ago today, my maternal grandfather made his attempt on Fortress Europe, while commanding one of these...


unfortunately, his 'swimming' tank sank from under his crew less than 200 yards from the LCT.
the entire crew managed to swim back to their 'mother' LCT.
by 7 June, he and his crew were back in England, looking to draw a replacement.

the vast majority of the American DD Shermans shared the same fate...


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BradGB

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #411 on: 07 June 2017, 02:49:29 »
Thats why Omaha beach was such a mess :o

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #412 on: 07 June 2017, 08:57:43 »
Thats why Omaha beach was such a mess :o


Yep, most were dropped too far out, and at Omaha the current hit them from the side and swamped them easily
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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #413 on: 07 June 2017, 09:04:53 »
Thats why Omaha beach was such a mess :o



Yep, most were dropped too far out, and at Omaha the current hit them from the side and swamped them easily


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Dave Talley

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #414 on: 07 June 2017, 09:14:35 »
Yeah

Much of what happened cat Omaha can only be described with the word cluster
Lousy visibility, cross currents and a whole new German division added to defenders were just the start, lots of first and second wave boats landed several hundred yards out of place, and just like Saving Private Ryan showed, a bunch of boats landed directly in front of multiple mg nests and of course bombardment hadn't provided any shell holes to take cover in etc
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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #415 on: 07 June 2017, 13:24:39 »
Didn't a historian say it was a near thing for the Allies on that day for the first wave?
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #416 on: 07 June 2017, 16:04:18 »
It was.  There were successful and fairly easy landings further west, but that still left a major bottleneck of the Cherbourg peninsula to fight out of.  With Omaha and Dog beaches, the defenses were thickest.  Air cover was not very capable, and much of the shelling had landed long - I understand it was expected that there would be tanks and artillery stored in the target zones.  The biggest factors in the German defensive failure was the decoy operation with Patton's nonexistent army drawing their attention and planning further northeast.  The second biggest was once the main thrust became clear to the local commanders, the "command-inertia" from Germany took far too long to bring up reserves.

As it was, it was close indeed - had the Germans been able to repulse successfully at the American beaches in the east, and had there been enough reserve support units, they could have moved up and driven the western beach-head into the sea.  Too many of their forces were focused on the Dover-Calais route, and they didn't have the ability to shift that force by over 300km required to reach Caen and begin closing the door.  A lot more could have been done with the naval gunfire to drop closer to the beaches, prior to the assault, but that would have also made the beaches that much more difficult to traverse - the same problems the infantry faced crossing the artillery's destruction in the first World War.
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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #417 on: 07 June 2017, 17:29:49 »
Dog beach?

As far as I know they were: Utah, Omaha, Gold, Juno and Sword beaches.


Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #418 on: 07 June 2017, 17:34:55 »
It was.  There were successful and fairly easy landings further west, but that still left a major bottleneck of the Cherbourg peninsula to fight out of.  With Omaha and Dog beaches, the defenses were thickest.  Air cover was not very capable, and much of the shelling had landed long - I understand it was expected that there would be tanks and artillery stored in the target zones.  The biggest factors in the German defensive failure was the decoy operation with Patton's nonexistent army drawing their attention and planning further northeast.  The second biggest was once the main thrust became clear to the local commanders, the "command-inertia" from Germany took far too long to bring up reserves.

As it was, it was close indeed - had the Germans been able to repulse successfully at the American beaches in the east, and had there been enough reserve support units, they could have moved up and driven the western beach-head into the sea.  Too many of their forces were focused on the Dover-Calais route, and they didn't have the ability to shift that force by over 300km required to reach Caen and begin closing the door.  A lot more could have been done with the naval gunfire to drop closer to the beaches, prior to the assault, but that would have also made the beaches that much more difficult to traverse - the same problems the infantry faced crossing the artillery's destruction in the first World War.
Didn't they have to get the personal authorization of the Fuhrer to move forces and he was still asleep, or something like that?
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Re: Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III
« Reply #419 on: 07 June 2017, 17:37:26 »

Yep, most were dropped too far out, and at Omaha the current hit them from the side and swamped them easily

The British managed their 'Hobart's Funnies' a little better, and/or were luckier, and they were more useful on their beaches.

Still, it's a hell of a thing to drive a perfectly good tank into water over its head. Getting out of a sinking tank probably is on par with getting out of a burning tank - hell of a thing. Grognard, so glad to hear your granddad & all his crew made it out. Did he talk about that bit, ever?

(My father was RN, my father-in-law was a machine-gunner in the Greek Civil War. Neither talked much about it; one of my father's more relevant comments was "A life on the ocean wave, is the key to a watery grave" ...)

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