Author Topic: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype  (Read 168362 times)

I am Belch II

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #420 on: 22 April 2017, 09:13:40 »
Im going to do my best to binge watch Star Wars Rebels. I guess Rogue One and  Thrwan has peaked my interest more in the show.
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #421 on: 22 April 2017, 11:50:25 »
Has anyone ever read the book of Episode III?  Its actually pretty good and it really does flesh out the characters so Anakin's change isn't

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'internal struggle' that we got in the movie.  I was reading the book sitting there going "Why couldn't the movie have been like this..."

My favorite parts were the expansions of the scenes between the Emperor and Mace and company (that battle actually made sense in regards to how the Emperor took out 3 master Jedi so quickly in the novel), and the Emperor and Yoda (where we have Yoda's thoughts on the battle and why he couldn't win)...also the ending was a lot better in describing each scene than the movie was...

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #422 on: 22 April 2017, 15:13:17 »
There's a reason Empire Strike Back was a strong one; Lucas was made to let others do the detail work.

Leigh Brackett was a very talented screenwriter and understood what was needed to make the story in to a believable movie... wish she was still with us when the prequel trilogy came around.  Good Lord, that dialog in "Attack of the Clones" was beyond atrocious.

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #423 on: 22 April 2017, 15:25:43 »
I'm gonna recommend this (yet) again to ALL. The man can narrate, and Anakin's fall to the Dark Side is so much better developed that you just want to throw a brick through the ROTS portrayal on the silver screen.

Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader by James Luceno, especially the first few chapters, will add to that depth that the movies missed.  I can see Christiansen perfectly in that and ROTS novelization... so I blame the portrayal on the directing - Lucas, you flubbed it.

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #424 on: 22 April 2017, 15:39:37 »
It's shame really that Christiansen tends to get blame from that when it's not his fault. If script and direction are lacking than actors have hard time making it work. I can only assume that it's becuase actors are public figures that they tend to get blame. 
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #425 on: 22 April 2017, 15:44:45 »
It's shame really that Christiansen tends to get blame from that when it's not his fault. If script and direction are lacking than actors have hard time making it work. I can only assume that it's becuase actors are public figures that they tend to get blame.
And there's a percentage of the Star Wars fanbase who believes that Lucas defecates gold and urinates champagne, and wanted to blame the total shitstorm that was the prequels on something - ANYTHING - than the man that we all know is responsible.

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #426 on: 22 April 2017, 17:02:44 »
And there's a percentage of the Star Wars fanbase who believes that Lucas defecates gold and urinates champagne, and wanted to blame the total shitstorm that was the prequels on something - ANYTHING - than the man that we all know is responsible.

Sadly Lucas himself bought into that myth a long time ago. You only have to look at how he reacted when TFA and RO came out to see it: he dumped on them, tried to tear them down as unworthy of his creation. And yet they both stand miles above the prequels (even if TFA was a straight remake of ANH; and RO is tied with ESB for best Star Wars movie).

The bald truth is that Star Wars started out as one movie (it was only later that he stuck "A New Hope" on the first one). He's been cobbling the thing together on the fly from the beginning.

If he was truly the creative genius he gets credit for he would have done more than just Star Wars. He's a hack plain and simple. Granted, one that's made some very shrewd licensing deals.
(Yes, yes, there is the "Indiana Jones" movies, but those are almost entirely Spielberg vehicles.)

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #427 on: 22 April 2017, 18:39:53 »
This seems an appropriate time to point out that A New Hope was itself based on a Japanese movie, The Hidden Fortress, to begin with.
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #428 on: 22 April 2017, 19:02:11 »
This seems an appropriate time to point out that A New Hope was itself based on a Japanese movie, The Hidden Fortress, to begin with.

Took inspiration from would be a better way of putting I think.


As a fan of Ms. Bracket, I'd be curious to know how much of the final script was of her work and how much was Kasdan...

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #429 on: 22 April 2017, 19:39:07 »
If he was truly the creative genius he gets credit for he would have done more than just Star Wars. He's a hack plain and simple. Granted, one that's made some very shrewd licensing deals.
(Yes, yes, there is the "Indiana Jones" movies, but those are almost entirely Spielberg vehicles.)

Well, there was also his director/writer credits for American Graffiti and THX-1138 as well...

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #430 on: 22 April 2017, 20:19:17 »
Well, there was also his director/writer credits for American Graffiti and THX-1138 as well...

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #431 on: 22 April 2017, 21:53:16 »
also the ending was a lot better in describing each scene than the movie was...
Someone here said the essence of tragedy in literature is that the seeds of one's downfall is planted by the character him/herself. Stover really highlights this in his novelisation, not just for Anakin but also Windu, Obiwan, Padme, Yoda, and the Jedi Order (including a very detailed and insightful explanation of Palpatine's plan), and the result is really something one doesn't expect coming from (lets face it) scifi pulp.
« Last Edit: 22 April 2017, 21:55:48 by Kidd »

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #432 on: 23 April 2017, 00:23:26 »
Took inspiration from would be a better way of putting I think.


As a fan of Ms. Bracket, I'd be curious to know how much of the final script was of her work and how much was Kasdan...

I bet is was more hers than his, though Kasdan is no slouch, he was never in her class. 

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #433 on: 23 April 2017, 00:40:45 »
I bet is was more hers than his (snip)
Perhaps not. Though bearing in mind of course its a very rough draft, it seems Ms Brackett's work was extremely... fantastic.

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #434 on: 23 April 2017, 01:34:23 »
It's shame really that Christiansen tends to get blame from that when it's not his fault. If script and direction are lacking than actors have hard time making it work. I can only assume that it's becuase actors are public figures that they tend to get blame.

I know hating on Lucas is all the rage these days, but it seems rather disingenuous to blame him for Christiansen's failures on camera. None of the other actors turned in the kind of bizarre, wooden deliveries Hayden did in Episodes II & III, and I thought Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan is phenomenal. The interaction between Hayden & George may not have worked out for the best, but clearly it wasn't a combination that had the same negative impact on every actor involved.

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #435 on: 23 April 2017, 01:38:19 »
Saw this while reading some other stuff on WEG and starwars..

http://www.glixel.com/news/how-a-dd-style-rpg-brought-star-wars-back-from-the-dead-w457301
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #436 on: 23 April 2017, 01:51:08 »
I know hating on Lucas is all the rage these days, but it seems rather disingenuous to blame him for Christiansen's failures on camera. None of the other actors turned in the kind of bizarre, wooden deliveries Hayden did in Episodes II & III, and I thought Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan is phenomenal. The interaction between Hayden & George may not have worked out for the best, but clearly it wasn't a combination that had the same negative impact on every actor involved.

Are you saying that you didn't facepalm at least once in RotS with all of Obi-Wan's screaming about allegiance to democracy?
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #437 on: 23 April 2017, 01:56:16 »
I know hating on Lucas is all the rage these days, but it seems rather disingenuous to blame him for Christiansen's failures on camera. None of the other actors turned in the kind of bizarre, wooden deliveries Hayden did in Episodes II & III, and I thought Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan is phenomenal. The interaction between Hayden & George may not have worked out for the best, but clearly it wasn't a combination that had the same negative impact on every actor involved.

I've never seen Christiansen in any other movie, so I can't say whether he is a good actor or not. I will point out however that Samuel L. Jackson was the definition of wooden in his appearances. That's literally the only time I've ever seen a wooden performance from him...

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #438 on: 23 April 2017, 01:57:37 »
Are you saying that you didn't facepalm at least once in RotS with all of Obi-Wan's screaming about allegiance to democracy?

I don't recall anything that seemed out of character or unnatural, no. Is there a particular quote or two you're referring to?

Saw this while reading some other stuff on WEG and starwars..

http://www.glixel.com/news/how-a-dd-style-rpg-brought-star-wars-back-from-the-dead-w457301
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #439 on: 23 April 2017, 02:02:03 »
Are you saying that you didn't facepalm at least once in RotS with all of Obi-Wan's screaming about allegiance to democracy?
He said/screamed that only once that I can recall, and the only fault I found was that he forgot about the many Jedi/younglings Anakin killed, and thats on Lucas. All in all I like McGregor as young Obiwan, from Ep 1 through 3, he can play scenes calling for gravitas or flamboyance equally well.

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #440 on: 23 April 2017, 02:05:24 »
I know hating on Lucas is all the rage these days, but it seems rather disingenuous to blame him for Christiansen's failures on camera. None of the other actors turned in the kind of bizarre, wooden deliveries Hayden did in Episodes II & III, and I thought Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan is phenomenal. The interaction between Hayden & George may not have worked out for the best, but clearly it wasn't a combination that had the same negative impact on every actor involved.

I avoid stomping on Lucas if I can, but look at Portman's delivery -- especially in Ep 1 -- and compare it to other films, especially ones like The Professional where she's show-stopping.  Consider as was mentioned, other performances such as that of Sammy L, who likewise wasn't as. . . animated. . . as he usually is on-screen.  Even some of Sir Christopher's scenes as Dooku rub me the wrong way, and that man forgot more about acting that most actors will ever learn.  The scripts for the prequels were an issue, yes, but the biggest crime against those films was the poor direction.  You don't have that many good actors delivering that poor a performance together and blame them individually.
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #441 on: 23 April 2017, 02:22:00 »
I know hating on Lucas is all the rage these days, but it seems rather disingenuous to blame him for Christiansen's failures on camera. None of the other actors turned in the kind of bizarre, wooden deliveries Hayden did in Episodes II & III, and I thought Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan is phenomenal. The interaction between Hayden & George may not have worked out for the best, but clearly it wasn't a combination that had the same negative impact on every actor involved.

Yet Lucas was the director on both II and III - and it is the directors job to guide the actors as they perform, tell them how to act and behave according to the script.
Lucas stood there behind the camera and watched Hayden "perform" and did nothing to get him to perform better.

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #442 on: 23 April 2017, 02:29:29 »
I know hating on Lucas is all the rage these days, but it seems rather disingenuous to blame him for Christiansen's failures on camera. None of the other actors turned in the kind of bizarre, wooden deliveries Hayden did in Episodes II & III, and I thought Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan is phenomenal. The interaction between Hayden & George may not have worked out for the best, but clearly it wasn't a combination that had the same negative impact on every actor involved.

Don't get me wrong. I am not hating Lucas but I can't put blame on Christensen either considering that other actors also put out worse performance under Lucas than they usually do. Based on his work with prequals Lucas does not really know how to direct human actors and even best actors have problems when direction and scpit are bad. Besides I have no need to defend Lucas from doing bad job as director considering that best movie in franchise was not directed by him.   
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #443 on: 23 April 2017, 04:14:08 »
Re Hayden, i'll just say this "Avatar the last Airbender movie." he wrecked that role too, and again was 'helped' in doing this by a god aweful script written by someone who seemingly hated the source material.
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #444 on: 23 April 2017, 04:54:36 »
I know hating on Lucas is all the rage these days, but it seems rather disingenuous to blame him for Christiansen's failures on camera. None of the other actors turned in the kind of bizarre, wooden deliveries Hayden did in Episodes II & III, and I thought Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan is phenomenal. The interaction between Hayden & George may not have worked out for the best, but clearly it wasn't a combination that had the same negative impact on every actor involved.
"When everywhere you walk smells like dogshit, it's time to check your shoes." All of the actors turned out terrible performances - Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan sounds whiny and panicked half the time, which I never realized until I saw the TCW Obi-Wan and realized that the tone Lucas was trying to achieve was 'snarky and sarcastic'.

I've been hating on Lucas since Episode 1 released - in fact, I can pinpoint the exact moment I started hating Lucas: about one-eighth of the way through the podracing sequence where, in a crowded premiere, i stood up in the theater and shouted "GO POD RACER GO!!" Nothing he has done or said since has convinced me of anything other than a man completely out of his depth.


So I recently stumbled onto The Clone Wars behind the scenes stuff, and found out that almost every  one of the arcs that I hated had Lucas' wangprints all over them. "let's remake Godzilla and King Kong!" Lucas' idea. "Let's send 3P0 and R2D2 on a Gulliver's Travel style hallucination journey!" Lucas' idea. "What if Jar Jar and Mace Windu teamed up to rescue a princess that, hehee, fell in love with Jar Jar!" Lucas' idea. "What if the Mon Calamari needed the only other aquatic species we've ever seen as warriors to rescue them!" Lucas' idea. "What if a virus was about to be released on Naboo that would kill a bunch of people!"

...You get the idea whose idea it was. The worst (and most hilarious) part is that watching these people talk about the face-palmingly dumb ideas Lucas created you can see, SEE that they know how dumb it is, and yet can't tell him because he's their boss and has created the kind of environment where if he looked outside and said, "The snow is black," they'd agree with him. Or get fired.


Star Wars is a collaborative storytelling element. Maybe Lucas was the sole voice at one point on Star Wars (doubtful if the rumors about how Luke Starkiller was supposed to be 40 and C-3P0 was supposed to be a smarmy car salesman are true), but now it belongs to each author who adds something to it, and there's a solid directorial vision that knows what it wants to say.

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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #445 on: 23 April 2017, 05:40:48 »
Re Hayden, i'll just say this "Avatar the last Airbender movie." he wrecked that role too, and again was 'helped' in doing this by a god aweful script written by someone who seemingly hated the source material.
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #446 on: 23 April 2017, 07:09:30 »
Thankfully, Disney has removed him from the equation (for the most part)
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #447 on: 23 April 2017, 07:22:07 »
There were some great parts of SW2 and SW3. I think the problem with the movie is that they were prequels, and its hard to do things before the major time line and still have everything fit perfectly. If they would of moved forward in the universe and did a whole different Episode 7, 8, and 9 you wouldn't of limited yourself in story.

Its just my own opinion on prequels. Form Lord of the Rings---Hobbit, X-Men----to X-men First Class, hell even Star Trek Voyager ------Enterprise. 
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #448 on: 23 April 2017, 07:32:19 »
There were some great parts of SW2 and SW3. I think the problem with the movie is that they were prequels, and its hard to do things before the major time line and still have everything fit perfectly. If they would of moved forward in the universe and did a whole different Episode 7, 8, and 9 you wouldn't of limited yourself in story.

Its just my own opinion on prequels. Form Lord of the Rings---Hobbit, X-Men----to X-men First Class, hell even Star Trek Voyager ------Enterprise.
The problem for most of us with the prequels wasn't that they were set before the IV-VI, but how they were directed as detailed by others above your post.
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Re: Star Wars Thread IV - A New Hype
« Reply #449 on: 23 April 2017, 07:42:35 »
WEG D6 is probably the most definitively Star Wars work of fiction outside the OT. Nothing else captures the universe of the films the same way. It became huge at a time when Star Wars was largely forgotten. Star Wars a pop culture monolith today because of guys like Bill Smith & Bill Slavicsek kept the lanterns burning like a group of Irish Catholic monks in the Dark Ages. I really can't overstate my love for their game and their work.

Agreed...I still love to re-read the sourcebooks and create characters using the system...It stands heads and tails above the old D20 and Saga systems that came later in my opinion (I haven't seen enough of the current RPG for Star Wars to say one way or the other on it)...

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