Author Topic: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?  (Read 4459 times)

marauder648

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I just don't get the hate on for the Quixote in the fluff.  In my eyes she's an AMAZING escort vessel.  Sure she's slow as all hell but at the time she was introduced thats fine as so was a large chunk of the SLDF fleet.  The Aegis, Dart and Monsoon as well as several destroyer classes all pootled along at a measly 2/3 movement speed which was what the Quixote could do.

But then you look at her armour.  She's got better protection than an Aegis, the  Sovietskii Soyuz and the Congress, can carry 6 dropships (vs 4 and 2 for the SovSoy and Congress in SLDF service), comes with a dozen fighters, 6 small craft and 150 marines making her a fearsome boarding and customs vessel.

And then there's her weapons.  The SLDF ships had a BIG vulnerability to fighter strikes, and often relied on their own fighters to defend themselves.  Later they had more advanced fire control to allow them to use lasers and other big weapons against fighters, but their main anti-fighter weapon was the missile launcher. 

And the Quixote is slathered in them.  If she broadsides you she's going to be pointing 12 x Barracuda, 12 x White Shark and 6 x Killer whales at you.  As well as 2 x NL-55s and 2 x NAC-30s. 

That is a VERY large number of missiles, meaning that this ship could engage at extreme range as well as deal with fighters as there's few fighters even today that want to take a slap from a naval missile.  These would make superb heavy escorts, a version of our Aegis type ships, lobbing missiles at incoming threats at extreme range and plinking them before they become a threat. 

Yet the fluff basically said that the Quixote was viewed as a failure (that they ordered over 200 of).  And that the  Congress was more 'well rounded' despite a smaller fighter complement and 4 less dropships. 

If the Quixote had been in service during the Amaris crisis I reckon more ships would have survived the big fighter strikes that so blighted the SLDF, and that the Quixotes would be able to deploy large numbers of nuclear missiles to eliminate CASPAR drones. 

This is one of those units, like the Hanse who's fluff seems to go "HATE! HATE! HATE!!!!" for no real reason, when its a perfectly fine vessel or vehicle, if you use them right. 

What do you guys and gals think?



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Frabby

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #1 on: 26 January 2017, 16:58:03 »
Just a guess, but perhaps it simply underperforms compared to its price tag.
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Vition2

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #2 on: 26 January 2017, 19:01:02 »
I think that a lot of it is due to the time period being a bit of a "want for nothing" period.  Most likely opponents were expected to have gobs and gobs of fighters which would be able to target missiles for destruction.  Naval Lasers, if there are enough of them, can function fairly well as anti-missile defense too.  Combined that could leave the Hegemony wanting something that deals better direct damage.

In the post succession wars eras, the gobs of fighters isn't a thing anymore so massive salvos of missiles are more effective.

There could also have been some other issues that don't show up in the stats, such as a poor layout (one bad hit takes an entire area out of action, or kills the fire control computer or... etc.).

Just some possibilities, the fluff basically leaves it up to the reader to determine what could be the real cause.

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #3 on: 26 January 2017, 22:46:45 »
It was a good Missle boat ship. With the crit chances of Missles the ship would be pretty effective.
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marauder648

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #4 on: 27 January 2017, 03:16:57 »
I'd say that its percived lack of speed would be a drawback, its not an ammo issue as the Quixote carries something like 80 missiles per launcher.  And she's got over 160,000 tons of cargo space so its not like she can't carry extra missiles due to lack of cargo space.

And whilst the missiles deliver less of an initial WALLOP than a laser, PPC or AC hit they are far more flexible and you can start critting at long range.  And considering that AMS on ships is simply non-existant until 3057 and later, then there's little you can do to defend against her missile volleys.

The Quixote though as we know was evolved into the Volga (and made worse, as they dropped 2 collars and saddled her with heat woes) so I guess the Quixote was set up to fail was that they needed something to stat out before making the Volga. 

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snewsom2997

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #5 on: 27 January 2017, 10:42:59 »
Fluff, nothing more nothing less.

The SovSoy is fluffed as being awesome, I find it lacking, of course that could be due to the fact that 2 out of 3 of my versions of TRO3057 are missing the full stats for the craft, but even the full stats are, meh. I find that too much space was allocated to cargo with SLDF ships, when on top of the thousands of warships, you have 10,000's of Jumpships, for your merchant fleet. This all goes back to the original ships basically being pulled out of thin air with no construction rules.

However by the time they took the effort to make rounded warships, when TRO3057 was released we were stuck with a couple dozen classes of ships that make no sense, sorta like the dimension's of the ships make no sense, or the armor thickness makes no sense.

Also with SLDF/TH ships, cost was never an issue, they had a couple thousand destroyers and cruiser's, and before the Succession Wars there appears that almost every habitable TH system would have Yard space for Jumpships and Warships, it would have to just to be able to maintain the fleet.

Wrangler

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #6 on: 27 January 2017, 15:35:24 »
The Quixote though as we know was evolved into the Volga (and made worse, as they dropped 2 collars and saddled her with heat woes) so I guess the Quixote was set up to fail was that they needed something to stat out before making the Volga.
That's essentially what i believe.  Quixote was created as part of the fluff of the Volga.  Were fortunate to have a good ship, with essentially background that was ringed with disappointment that became the successful transport known as Volga.

However, you can look at the bright side, Quixote may have the last laugh since one of her kind remains in existence in the Dark Age.
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marauder648

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #7 on: 28 January 2017, 03:50:40 »
I've quietly head canoned that the Volga started out as a Merchant vessel that was adopted by the SLDF, instead of it coming off the Quixote hull.
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #8 on: 28 January 2017, 08:01:47 »
I've quietly head canoned that the Volga started out as a Merchant vessel that was adopted by the SLDF, instead of it coming off the Quixote hull.
There is a basis for it in reality, though. At the turn of 20th century, some warships were sold to be used as merchant ships (cargo carrier or such) after being discharged from their navies. If I recalled, a german coastal pre-dreadnought battleship's fate was such.
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marauder648

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #9 on: 28 January 2017, 08:59:47 »
Indeed.  Or basically the SLDF went to a merchant ship builder and said "We want an armed merchant vessel, full military specs, and armour etc." and then flung a box of money at their heads. 
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Cryhavok101

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #10 on: 01 February 2017, 09:30:47 »
The fluff says:
Quote
Political machinations among the various Terran Hegemony Departments also led to the purchase of 250 of these dubious vessels. In an attempt to make the best of a bad situation, the SLDF Admiralty modified the design into a missile frigate

So two things are revealed there. The admiralty didn't buy them, politicians did, despite the admiralty not wanting them. The other thing is, they weren't missile boats until after they were forced on the admiralty, and the admiralty modified the design as best they could. Essentially, the Quixote stats we have are the best the SLDF could make it after they were give a pile of scrap that was being called a warship. I think we can safely assume it wasn't this shiny missile boat until after the Admiralty had their way with it.

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #11 on: 01 February 2017, 15:16:37 »

So it was likely just a switch of some cargo space for missile launchers?
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Cryhavok101

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #12 on: 01 February 2017, 17:45:11 »
For all we know for sure, it could have been a switch from a bajillion fluid guns to capital missiles lol. With the star leagues penchant for putting ridiculous amounts of cargo on their ships, that would not surprise me though.

Makes me wonder how the Volga would look if it traded a bunch of cargo for a capital missile array similar to the Quixote's though.

Wrangler

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #13 on: 01 February 2017, 22:11:38 »
I wonder what the original Battlecruiser configuration for the Quixote was suppose to be like.

That what she was before being converted into a Missile Frigate.
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Smegish

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #14 on: 02 February 2017, 02:41:56 »
Did the captains of Quixotes inexplicably ram Wagon Wheels for no good reason? perhaps that was why they were considered poo :P

Yes, this is an attempt at a Quixote/Windmill joke, the Wagon Wheel was the most appropriate warship class I could think of

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #15 on: 02 February 2017, 18:55:04 »
No, ramming is a Davion tactical innovation.
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Smegish

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #16 on: 02 February 2017, 22:51:48 »
Perhaps one 'rediscovered' just like 'Bracketing Fire' and 'Fielding more then one warship in the same system'

Cryhavok101

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #17 on: 02 February 2017, 22:57:08 »
Perhaps one 'rediscovered' just like 'Bracketing Fire' and 'Fielding more then one warship in the same system'

This is clearly blasphemy on the same level as actually slicing bread. I don't even know what to say to such a horror. How could you sir? How could you?

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Re: Why is the Quixote class frigate considered poo in the fluff?
« Reply #18 on: 04 February 2017, 05:15:29 »
Another thing to consider is the build quality.

It is entirely possible to build a awesome ship on paper that doesn't quite work right in service. Maybe they were maintenance hogs, had problems with the electrical systems, had to immediately return to space dock for strengthening after trails or couldn't have the radio and radar on at the same time. (as a few RW examples of stuff that has plagued new ships)

Perhaps their original armament was autocannons and the recoill was literally shaking the hull apart.

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