Author Topic: Solahma Infantry question.  (Read 3525 times)

Terrace

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Solahma Infantry question.
« on: 16 March 2017, 17:22:34 »
So, when a Clan is equipping a Solahma unit, you already expect the equipment is going to be the bare minimum needed to fight and (most likely) die. But what is that bare minimum? If you have enough troops to make a Trinary, that's 375 Warriors you have to find guns for. What is the most common primary armament for such? Does it change based on era? How would they stack up when compared to an Inner Sphere Infantry Company?

Maelwys

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Re: Solahma Infantry question.
« Reply #1 on: 16 March 2017, 17:36:08 »
Probably depends on the Clan and their view of Solahma. If they're smart, they're going to arm them with effective weapons and armor. If they're pragmatic, they're going to arm them with semi-effective weapons that they've got lying around from the last batch of Solahma, or that they can pull from a Brian Cache.

If they're part of the "Eh, they just need to die," then they're probably not going to arm them with whatever is lying around. IIRC we see this in one of the Jade Falcon novels where Ter Roshak is running forward armed with a knife looking to die.

So you've probably got a wide range of equipment depending on Clan and Era.

Terrace

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Re: Solahma Infantry question.
« Reply #2 on: 16 March 2017, 20:45:24 »
So, if I were to make a Jade Falcon Solahma Infantry Trinary in, say, 3145, would they run into battle carrying Auto-Rifles, Mauser IICs, or something else?

Iron Mongoose

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Re: Solahma Infantry question.
« Reply #3 on: 16 March 2017, 20:48:49 »
"The man with the gun shoots, the man with out the gun follows..."

The Falcon solahma depicted in Legend of the Jade Phoenix and other books were more "armed" than armed.  Maybe they got rifles, maybe they got spears, or sharpened sticks. They probably had their old uniforms left over from their days of being useful, which probably includes boots of some type.  Maybe one in each unit gets a radio.  What true warrior needs more, really? 

In other Clans, clearly, things were different (or not).  Even the worst punishment unit in the Horses is probably quite well equipped; they probably have at least a 1:1 ratio of guns to warriors (seriously, they're probably nice guns, ok uniforms, and most importantly they'll be commanded by officers with a lifetime of training in infantry tactics).  Outside of the Horses (and maybe the Vipers? they always seemed to have more infantry than I would have expected) most Solahma infantry will feel most keenly a lack of any sort of infantry training or doctrine.  Sure, each individually will tend to be a competent fighter, since no warrior would neglect their martial skills, so marksmanship and physical fitness will be high, but beyond "look! The enemy! Shoot!" I can't imagine much in the way of tactics, and since most seek death, a headlong rush towards the enemy would be pretty standard.

Relative to the IS, just the fact that IS troopers would have an instinct to keep their heads down would be an advantage.  They might be able to beat green conscripts with a month on the job just by dint of their individual abilities and fanaticism, but any unit of fully trained IS infantry would out fight real true solahmas.

Of course, the sort of infantry that rate mentions in the Field Manuals and deployment charts and such (Horses and Vipers mostly) will be of a very different sort.
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Terrace

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Re: Solahma Infantry question.
« Reply #4 on: 16 March 2017, 21:00:45 »
"The man with the gun shoots, the man with out the gun follows..."

The Falcon solahma depicted in Legend of the Jade Phoenix and other books were more "armed" than armed.  Maybe they got rifles, maybe they got spears, or sharpened sticks. They probably had their old uniforms left over from their days of being useful, which probably includes boots of some type.  Maybe one in each unit gets a radio.  What true warrior needs more, really? 

In other Clans, clearly, things were different (or not).  Even the worst punishment unit in the Horses is probably quite well equipped; they probably have at least a 1:1 ratio of guns to warriors (seriously, they're probably nice guns, ok uniforms, and most importantly they'll be commanded by officers with a lifetime of training in infantry tactics).  Outside of the Horses (and maybe the Vipers? they always seemed to have more infantry than I would have expected) most Solahma infantry will feel most keenly a lack of any sort of infantry training or doctrine.  Sure, each individually will tend to be a competent fighter, since no warrior would neglect their martial skills, so marksmanship and physical fitness will be high, but beyond "look! The enemy! Shoot!" I can't imagine much in the way of tactics, and since most seek death, a headlong rush towards the enemy would be pretty standard.

Relative to the IS, just the fact that IS troopers would have an instinct to keep their heads down would be an advantage.  They might be able to beat green conscripts with a month on the job just by dint of their individual abilities and fanaticism, but any unit of fully trained IS infantry would out fight real true solahmas.

Of course, the sort of infantry that rate mentions in the Field Manuals and deployment charts and such (Horses and Vipers mostly) will be of a very different sort.

Right, I forgot about that. Wow, Solahma Infantry really is a death sentence, isn't it? At least the other branches of Solahma service (as in, actually have BattleMechs, Aerospace Fighters, Combat Vehicles, or Battle Armor) have a remote possibility of surviving long enough to impress their superiors into promoting them back into a real unit. If you're Infantry? You're effectively already dead, the universe is just letting you walk around in the meantime. It reminds me of Zapp Brannigan from Futurama, when he told one of his soldiers who volunteered for a suicide mission "Don't worry son. Under my command, every mission is a suicide mission." #P

While I would still equip them with Auto-Rifles on a 1:1 basis simply to let more of them shoot at the same time, I'd probably deploy them in Succession War-era Heavy Hover APCs just because I wouldn't be able to justify a more advanced APC (which would be more likely earmarked for Battle Armor formations anyway, particularly in the Dark Age).
« Last Edit: 16 March 2017, 21:23:11 by Terrace »

Bren

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Re: Solahma Infantry question.
« Reply #5 on: 16 March 2017, 23:48:23 »
'Solahma' casts a pretty wide net. It really is a case by case basis.

Some are armed with rifles, some are armed with OmniMechs ...

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Solahma Infantry question.
« Reply #6 on: 17 March 2017, 12:51:26 »
Some are armed with rifles, some are armed with OmniMechs ...

Yeah, there are phonebook pages for solahma clusters in the sourcebooks.  Some, like this one, are equipped with frontline omnimechs, omnifighters, and battle armor:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jade_Solahma_(Clan_Jade_Falcon)

Others, like this one, are equipped with secondline battlemechs and fighters:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gyrfalcon_Solahma_(Clan_Jade_Falcon)

FWIW...

"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
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deathfrombeyond

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Re: Solahma Infantry question.
« Reply #7 on: 17 March 2017, 13:42:53 »
Right, I forgot about that. Wow, Solahma Infantry really is a death sentence, isn't it? At least the other branches of Solahma service (as in, actually have BattleMechs, Aerospace Fighters, Combat Vehicles, or Battle Armor) have a remote possibility of surviving long enough to impress their superiors into promoting them back into a real unit. If you're Infantry? You're effectively already dead, the universe is just letting you walk around in the meantime...

...as a member of the Warrior Caste.

To put it in terms that we could understand, it would be like being a third string QB in the NFL. It may not seem like they do much, but they get compensated a heck of a lot better than most of us do.
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truetanker

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Re: Solahma Infantry question.
« Reply #8 on: 17 March 2017, 15:21:00 »
What is the most common primary armament for such? Does it change based on era? How would they stack up when compared to an Inner Sphere Infantry Company?

Main common weapon know wouldbe the Mauser IIC. Basic Armor is the onethat is Armor Divisor of 2.  After all, Common sense would have them use what they have been trained for like 150 years or so. It has been like 200 years since Kerensky left. Now for more variants, Gauss SMG and Laser Pistols.

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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Solahma Infantry question.
« Reply #9 on: 17 March 2017, 17:37:17 »

Also, TRO: 3085 has a couple solahma infantry-related entries.

Ghost Bear Assault Infantry is described as carrying the heaviest weapons and armor, unlike "other solahma units".  They carry ER Support Lasers backed by Mauser IICs with Clan Standard Infantry Kit armor.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Assault_Infantry

Hell's Horses Foot Infantry is described as "generally solahma units".  They carry Automatic Grenade Launchers, Gauss SMGs, and Clan Kit armor.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Foot_Infantry

FWIW...

"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Solahma Infantry question.
« Reply #10 on: 17 March 2017, 20:11:36 »
Gauss SMGs are a relatively recent (well, post 3050) development. I assume solahmas would mostly get clan ER Laser Rifles or Pulse Rifles. I like to think the ER lasers would go to the best marksmen while everybody else got pulse rifles, but really, they were probably just handed whatever was on the top of the box when they showed up.

Riot troops might mix in some Avenger shotguns.
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WarGod

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Re: Solahma Infantry question.
« Reply #11 on: 20 March 2017, 22:02:37 »
I guess it varries with clan.  In the clan infatry weapon list, and body armor tables they actually got decent gear.   seems kinda waste of trained soldiers to send them armed out with just a knife, or hand weapon.   But then again if they had sense they would not be clan.
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truetanker

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Re: Solahma Infantry question.
« Reply #12 on: 23 March 2017, 17:13:54 »
I assume solahmas would mostly get clan ER Laser Rifles or Pulse Rifles. I like to think the ER lasers would go to the best marksmen while everybody else got pulse rifles, but really, they were probably just handed whatever was on the top of the box when they showed up.

What do you think the Mauser IIC is?

Sarna:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mauser_IIC_Infantry_Assault_System

TT
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Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Solahma Infantry question.
« Reply #13 on: 23 March 2017, 17:25:56 »
What do you think the Mauser IIC is?

Fancy and expensive. I think its use would vary largely depending on how much the given clan valued its conventional troops. According to the Master Table in interstellar operations, it was introduced by Clan Hells Horse in the early 31st century, and is painfully rare until after the jihad (Availability F during the succession wars, E during the clan invasion/jihad, and D during the republic era).

So I don't imagine them filtering down to the solahmas until after the Jihad. Even then, the basic ER laser and Pulse rifles are still more common.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!