Author Topic: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?  (Read 1696 times)

Dayton3

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Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« on: 20 March 2017, 17:52:45 »
I remember more than one reference in the novels where a character was being introduced to the then new or more accurately rediscovered Gauss rifles.

It was said that it was possible to "muzzle load" a Gauss rifle.   That is if your Gauss was still operational but your ammo bin was breached and ammo was spilling on the ground (assuming your mech had a hand on the opposite side) you could reach down and grab a Gauss round, drop it down the barrel and then fire it as before.

It was also suggested that steel or iron scrap like a girder could be dropped down the Gauss barrel and fired if you ran out of ammo.

Question?

Does this actually work in game play?    Can anyone share their experience with using this tactic or having it used against them?

What kind of modifiers are used for "improvised Gauss ammo" (steel or iron objects).

Karimancer

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #1 on: 20 March 2017, 18:00:30 »
If you're just shoving random crap down the barrel and shooting it out, the flight characteristics are going to be garbage. It'll tumble randomly instead of neatly rotate so it'll be inaccurate as hell. And given that even industrial girders aren't really built to be propelled at several times the speed of sound, let alone penetrate military-grade armor, it probably won't do much damage even if you do manage to land a hit.
« Last Edit: 21 March 2017, 10:08:00 by Karimancer »

glitterboy2098

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #2 on: 20 March 2017, 18:31:44 »
Kai asked about it in Blood Legacy when the updated Yen-Lo-Wang was revealed to him. he was told that you could hypothetically do it, but that "the average I-beam has terrible ballistic qualities"

Kai later in Lost Destiny used that same guass rifle, salvaged off his submerged mech and attached to a truckbed, to fire an I-beam in order to blow open a door to a Comstar prison camp, in order to let a point of Elementals (along with himself) into the camp to rescue captured IS and Clan prisoners.

Diamondshark

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #3 on: 20 March 2017, 20:56:48 »
I kinda imagine it working like that time in Pirates of the Caribbean when they shove random nonsense into their cannons--yeah, it would technically work, but that doesn't make it a good or particularly effective idea, which should be saved for the dire end of need.
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #4 on: 20 March 2017, 21:23:20 »
I kinda imagine it working like that time in Pirates of the Caribbean when they shove random nonsense into their cannons--yeah, it would technically work, but that doesn't make it a good or particularly effective idea, which should be saved for the dire end of need.

Firing random bits out of a cannon was actually a common anti-personnel tactic in absence of real grapeshot.

Hmm... I wonder if the idea for the silver bullet gauss came from a guy firing bags of nails out of his gauss rifle to deal with infantry.
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mbear

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #5 on: 21 March 2017, 07:40:41 »
IIRC when Kai asked he was also told that the non-standard ammo stood a good chance of ruining the bore and breaking the rails. So you might get one shot out of it, but after that all bets were off. (Good thing he was firing that I-beam at a fortress door, huh?)

Dayton3

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #6 on: 21 March 2017, 09:09:58 »
Hey that's given me the idea for a new weapons system.

Single shot gauss rifle.    Half the tonnage and criticals of a Clan gauss rifle but has the range of a light gauss and does the damage in its one time use of a heavy gauss.

wonder if it would be worth it?

Caedis Animus

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #7 on: 23 March 2017, 00:36:17 »
Maybe as a flavor piece, but impractical in actual usage. I mean, you are paying 6 tons for a gun that may or may not even hit, even if the damage is high and long-ranged.

That said, LGR range is a bit excessive. Following the damage pattern and range of an HGR makes more sense.
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Dayton3

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #8 on: 23 March 2017, 00:55:00 »
Maybe as a flavor piece, but impractical in actual usage. I mean, you are paying 6 tons for a gun that may or may not even hit, even if the damage is high and long-ranged.

That said, LGR range is a bit excessive. Following the damage pattern and range of an HGR makes more sense.

I wonder if it might be useful in the arena combat on Solaris VII

Caedis Animus

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #9 on: 23 March 2017, 01:01:10 »
Without a doubt, yeah. A nice, flashy finisher, an excellent make-or-break weapon? An excellent choice for the gaming world.
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Dayton3

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #10 on: 23 March 2017, 09:37:09 »
Without a doubt, yeah. A nice, flashy finisher, an excellent make-or-break weapon? An excellent choice for the gaming world.

And you wouldn't need light gauss range in any Solaris arena anyway would you?

Karimancer

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #11 on: 23 March 2017, 11:49:22 »
Oh I don't know. What if someone built an arena that was nothing more than a single, unbranched, kilometer long, unlit tunnel? Make for some interesting matches.

Dayton3

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #12 on: 23 March 2017, 14:35:25 »
Oh I don't know. What if someone built an arena that was nothing more than a single, unbranched, kilometer long, unlit tunnel? Make for some interesting matches.

True.   Piloting skills would be far, far less relevant.    Gunnery skill and having a 'mech that was way over heat sinked would probably be of paramount importance.

Not sure how interesting those kinds of matches would be for the spectators though.

Karimancer

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #13 on: 23 March 2017, 14:37:21 »
Two Mechs walking down a tunnel in the pitch black letting loose the whole way? Could be really neat looking.

Dayton3

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #14 on: 23 March 2017, 18:08:50 »
Two Mechs walking down a tunnel in the pitch black letting loose the whole way? Could be really neat looking.

In pitch black,  but superheat the air in the tunnel so neither 'mech could easily detect the other with infrared sensors initially.    Make the tunnel walls superdense so any ballistic projectiles either Gauss or autoconnon skip off them like a stone on the water.

Yeah,  I sense the barebones of a new Solaris VII story here.

Colt Ward

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #15 on: 23 March 2017, 22:27:13 »
It'll tumble randomly instead of neatly rotate so it'll be inaccurate as hell. And given that even industrial girders aren't really built to be propelled at several times the speed of sound, let alone penetrate military-grade armor, it probably won't do much damage even if you do manage to land a hit.

Actually, gauss rifles do not 'rotate' their slugs.  Rotating comes from rifling in a gun tube that does cause the shell to spin.
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Dayton3

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #16 on: 23 March 2017, 22:36:12 »
Actually, gauss rifles do not 'rotate' their slugs.  Rotating comes from rifling in a gun tube that does cause the shell to spin.

IIRC many of the most advanced tank cannons today are smooth bore.

Colt Ward

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #17 on: 23 March 2017, 22:56:32 »
They are, IIRC b/c of the nature of sabot rounds which are the primary AT weapons.  The Stryker MGS uses a rifled cannon for the 105mm to gain power and accuracy.
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Karimancer

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #18 on: 24 March 2017, 05:09:15 »
Actually, gauss rifles do not 'rotate' their slugs.  Rotating comes from rifling in a gun tube that does cause the shell to spin.
Oops, brain fart.

Hptm. Streiger

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #19 on: 19 April 2017, 14:35:59 »
A more realistic approach to GaussRifles aka coil guns (coil not rail)
 First the caliber has impact on the length of the accelrator when you don't want to fire melon balls the practical caliber is around 15cm or 6 inch.
The next issue is the waste heat - Gauss rifles don't generate heat so huge percentage of the gauss rifle would be the cooling jacket the other heat goes into the projectile however. So the projectile is literary the heat sink. Most smaller projectiles will stop to be ferromagnetic ~1400k for iron.

I'm not sure how a sabot round would behave with magnetic sabot and non magnetic penetrator.
Of this would be possible without consequences you can increase the caliber and decrease the strength of the magnetic field (20-30T).
Also don't know if a rifling would be impossible with the rotating ferromagnetic bullet traveling through the separated magnetic fields.


The iron bar of the novel as well as a couple of nails would not work in any case.

Demon55

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #20 on: 28 April 2017, 11:51:28 »
Using ammunition that is close enough to the standard guass rounds  and can be used without destroying the weapon is one thing and would be reasonable like someone reloading their own ammunition for their firearm(s).

But using random pieces of material is a bit over the top.

Caedis Animus

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #21 on: 28 April 2017, 17:04:39 »
Two Mechs walking down a tunnel in the pitch black letting loose the whole way? Could be really neat looking.

So... Mech Jousting, anyone?
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Dayton3

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #22 on: 29 April 2017, 13:29:12 »
So... Mech Jousting, anyone?

We are talking about desperate situations.    Common enough both in BT history and in real life.

You're cut off.    No retreat or resupply possible.    Running out of ammunition.    The other side is in no mood to take prisoners.    Only recourse is to sell your life as expensively as possible before detonating your fusion reactor.

Caedis Animus

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #23 on: 30 April 2017, 11:55:36 »
I don't think you understood the joke I was trying to make, because it was in terms of a Solaris game.
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Dayton3

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #24 on: 30 April 2017, 14:05:16 »
I don't think you understood the joke I was trying to make, because it was in terms of a Solaris game.

I was trying to reply to the post above yours instead.   Sorry.

Demon55

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #25 on: 01 May 2017, 00:35:28 »
I was trying to reply to the post above yours instead.   Sorry.

Good man!

The other thing is if you are winchester ammunition and use an I beam as a round you are also likely denying the enemy the use of that gauss rifle in the future.

Caedis Animus

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #26 on: 01 May 2017, 01:11:42 »
Or irritate your quartermaster, who now has to order new Gauss Capacitors at best.
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mbear

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #27 on: 01 May 2017, 09:32:13 »
Or irritate your quartermaster, who now has to order new Gauss Capacitors at best.

Hey that's why they get the big bucks.

Dayton3

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #28 on: 01 May 2017, 15:15:32 »
Hey that's why they get the big bucks.

I didn't know deer hunting was common in the BT universe...

mbear

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Re: Muzzle Loading A Gauss Rife?
« Reply #29 on: 02 May 2017, 08:09:15 »
I didn't know deer hunting was common in the BT universe...

That's why the Clans invented the AP Gauss Rifle: To hunt Strana Mechty Dire Deer. Their antlers can rip through Ferro-Fibrous armor and they're faster than an ice hellion.

 

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