Chicagoland Battletech IIC Design Challenge: September 9th

[lordgoober]

Ok.  This is being put here just as a thought for a silly "clan trial" type event that could be done at any time. <Edit>This event will happen on Saturday September 9th.

I have a bit of a construction challenge type game I would like to pose.  I know that there could be the potential for major munch in this but I think it would be amusing. 

Here is the gist of the idea.   

The IIC challenge. 

Build a star of mechs with these general rules.  Base BV hasn't been decided yet.  Tac Ops tech would potentially be allowed in certain cases.
Base mechs: 5 Inner Sphere mechs from 3025 to 3055 that DO NOT already have a IIC model made for them.   
Convert these mechs to IIC Variants following these parameters.  The example mech that will be used for all of this will be the Grand Dragon 1G
Mech Weight:  may have up to 10 ton differencial from the original IS mech. For the Grand Dragon this could be anywhere from 50-70 tons.
Mech Weapon loadout: The weapon class breakdown must be identical to the original IS variant but can vary the weapon sizes.  So the Grand Dragon 1G IIC would have to have 3 Laser weapons with 1 rear facing, 1 LRM launcher and 1 PPC for its weapon loadout.  So these weapons do not have to be the exact size as the original mechs so the LRM launcher could change size and the lasers could be things other than mediums.
BV:  The base BV of the mech cannot be more than 25% above the BV of the original mech


Anyone want to take a stab at this?  I think it could be amusing.   

[OrangeWoman]

If you want to run it we can talk at the next game what month might be best. Certainly with some big cons coming up I am sure we can find the time.

[lordgoober]

Ok.  I'm going to put the base BV for the Star of IS mechs to be upgraded at a max of 7500 BV for your star.  My star that I'm going to be doing is at about 6700 BV and I have 1 Light, 1 Medium, 2 Heavy and 1 Assault mech.  At Patrick's game we can talk about potential dates for this one.  I would definitely like to run it.

[lordgoober]

Ok. NOW that I can post again.  Here is the update for this exercise in cheddar.

Ok. Here are more defined rules for the construction.

Mech bases for star are canon IS mechs up through 3058.  This includes Star League mechs but no Royal Variants as the mech base.

BV for the star is 7500 for the IS mechs.

Construction is Mixed Tech legal.  No Society tech allowed.  Outside of that pretty much anything goes.

Tonnage differential is + or - 10 tons from base mech.
BV cap of the IIC is based on weight class
Assault:  200% of IS mech
Heavy:  233% of IS mech
Medium: 266% of IS mech
Light:  300% of IS mech

Weapon class type has to be of same class IE Laser for Laser (Clan weapon size doesn't have to be the same size as the IS mech).  The main exception is Missile launchers.  ATMs are legitimate for this but for a particular launcher the ammo must match the range bracket of the original weapon.  IE a SRM launcher replaced by an ATM launcher can only load HE ammo for that launcher.  LRMs can use both Normal and ER ammo. 

You MAY add a physical weapon onto these IICs.   If there is an IS physical weapon on the variant already, that weapon must stay.

For a potential date.  Would people be open to the Saturday after Gen Con for this?  It would give a decent amount of lead time for players to build their mechs.

[GreyWolfActual]

Just as an FYI:

NW Chicagoland Battletech Event
Date: Sunday, 23 July 2017
Time: 10AM
Location: Games Plus

NW Chicagoland Alpha Strike Event
Date: Saturday, 12 August 2017
Time: 10AM
Location: Games Plus

[lordgoober]

Thank you for telling me about these dates.  This is exactly the planning info I was looking for to try to go around.  But it looks like the August 26th, the Saturday after Gen Con isn't on this schedule so I can try to schedule for that saturday if we want. 

And it looks like I'm missing the 23rd because I'm on the work schedule...

[Hoover28]

I should be ok to make the 23rd.  I will not be able to attend the 12th as I will be driving back from Colorado.  Hope to see you all there.

[Wolf Reaper]

Well, I will not be able to be there at start if the game happens on August 26th.  I have to work that morning.

Scratch that. I will not be available on the 26th at all. Have fun guys. I save you from my unbelievable cheese.  :D

[Agathos]

This sounds like fun. I'm already getting some weird ideas...

I'm also excited for the Alpha Strike game this weekend.

[Gleep]

Questions:

1) ANY IS mech, 3058 and before, even if it already has a IIC variant?
(we could probably do better designs than some of those).

2) What items are Society tech?

3) Do you want to see them beforehand, or just show up with them?

4) Actual date.  Is it 09/09 as mentioned in the title?  (Other dates are mentioned).

[lordgoober]

No mech that has a canon IIC variant is allowed. 

The big ones are Nova CEWS and iATMs.

The actual date is 9/09. 

I would like to see mechs beforehand just to make sure they are legal.

Now.  Since this is Star vs Star.  2 map sheets per match or 4.

[Wolf Reaper]

No mech that has a canon IIC variant is allowed. 

How about the things that have "C"variants like the Marauder II Imp?

[GreyWolfActual]

How about the things that have "C"variants like the Marauder II Imp?

I would assume those are covered under the ban as well. The intention of the Imp C is to take an IS mech and make it better with Clan tech. That's the same intention as a Highlander IIC or a Warhammer IIC. IMO, the absence of "II" doesn't change much of anything.

[Wolf Reaper]

I would assume those are covered under the ban as well. The intention of the Imp C is to take an IS mech and make it better with Clan tech. That's the same intention as a Highlander IIC or a Warhammer IIC. IMO, the absence of "II" doesn't change much of anything.

I agree completely. I just was looking to close a possible exploit.

[Gleep]

No mech that has a canon IIC variant is allowed. 

So any IS mech or was there still a time barrier?

[Wolf Reaper]

So any IS mech or was there still a time barrier?

Mech bases for star are canon IS mechs up through 3058.  This includes Star League mechs but no Royal Variants as the mech base.

Construction is Mixed Tech legal.  No Society tech allowed.  Outside of that pretty much anything goes.

Tonnage differential is + or - 10 tons from base mech.
BV cap of the IIC is based on weight class
Assault:  200% of IS mech
Heavy:  233% of IS mech
Medium: 266% of IS mech
Light:  300% of IS mech

Weapon class type has to be of same class IE Laser for Laser (Clan weapon size doesn't have to be the same size as the IS mech).  The main exception is Missile launchers.  ATMs are legitimate for this but for a particular launcher the ammo must match the range bracket of the original weapon.  IE a SRM launcher replaced by an ATM launcher can only load HE ammo for that launcher.  LRMs can use both Normal and ER ammo. 

You MAY add a physical weapon onto these IICs.   If there is an IS physical weapon on the variant already, that weapon must stay.

[lordgoober]

I would assume those are covered under the ban as well. The intention of the Imp C is to take an IS mech and make it better with Clan tech. That's the same intention as a Highlander IIC or a Warhammer IIC. IMO, the absence of "II" doesn't change much of anything.

Correct.  Thank you for correcting my oversight on the Cs.

[lordgoober]

correction.  Royal variants can be used as bases for your mech.

[slothagent]

BV for the star is 7500 for the IS mechs.

...

BV cap of the IIC is based on weight class
Assault:  200% of IS mech
Heavy:  233% of IS mech
Medium: 266% of IS mech
Light:  300% of IS mech

could you clarify how the pilot-related aspects of BV should be calculated?  I can think of a few ways that it *might* be done:

• pick piloting & gunnery skills when we're computing the BV of the IS mechs, keep that IS star's pilot-adjusted BV under 7500, carry over those same piloting & gunnery in the IIC mechs and stay under the per-IIC-mech BV cap.
• ignore piloting & gunnery skills when computing the BV of the IS mechs, keep that IS star's BV under 7500, but include piloting & gunnery in the BV computation for the IIC mechs and stay under the per-IIC-mech BV cap.
• ignore piloting & gunnery skills when computing the BV of the IS mechs, keep that IS star's BV under 7500, also ignore piloting & gunnery skills when computing BV for the IIC mechs & stay under the per-IIC-mech BV cap, and assume that we're doing pilot assignment in some other way.

Thanks again for proposing and organizing this, I was almost worried that I wouldn't get enough Battletech at gencon ;-) .

[lordgoober]

Ignore pilot/gunnery.  Just mark on your mechs what position they are in the star from 1-5. Most pilots in a round are going to be G/P 3/4.  One pilot will be randomly one pip better or worse (IE a 2/3 or a 4/5).  I will roll this randomly at the beginning of the round.

[GreyWolfActual]

Unfortunately, I won't be able to make it out to this one. I might be able to swing by near the end (5ish at the earliest) but as far as participating, I cannot do that. Sorry everyone.

[Agathos]

BV cap of the IIC is based on weight class
Assault:  200% of IS mech
Heavy:  233% of IS mech
Medium: 266% of IS mech
Light:  300% of IS mech

Is anyone actually running up against these limits? For your original example of the Grand Dragon 1G, the IIC's limit would be 1300*2.33 = 3029. Not a lot of heavies will run into that limit.

Speaking of ways to inflate your BV, is there any prohibition on adding a targeting computer?

[Wolf Reaper]

Is anyone actually running up against these limits? For your original example of the Grand Dragon 1G, the IIC's limit would be 1300*2.33 = 3029. Not a lot of heavies will run into that limit.

Speaking of ways to inflate your BV, is there any prohibition on adding a targeting computer?

I have had 3 lights blow right over 300.

[lordgoober]

Is anyone actually running up against these limits? For your original example of the Grand Dragon 1G, the IIC's limit would be 1300*2.33 = 3029. Not a lot of heavies will run into that limit.

Speaking of ways to inflate your BV, is there any prohibition on adding a targeting computer?

None whatsoever.  One of the mechs I am doing for myself is one of the Panther variants with a C3 slave.  I almost tossed a TC in its place.

[slothagent]

FWIW my most-efficient designs seem to be adding about 1100 BV to the base IS model, no matter what weight class.

[Gleep]

I don't know if I'm going to be there or not.
Haven't had much time to work on mechs.
If I'm not there when the store opens, I won't be there at all.

Scratch that.  Will definitely not be there.  Family issue.

[Wolf Reaper]

Two days till the cheese fest.

[lordgoober]

Patrick,  do you have a copy of the Battletech Open score sheet handy that you could print out one copy of and bring?  I want to use it as a template. 

Also guys.  Bring 4 copies each of your mechs.  I don't think we'll do 4 rounds but I want to have people be prepared for 3 depending on how many people we get.

[Wolf Reaper]

Patrick,  do you have a copy of the Battletech Open score sheet handy that you could print out one copy of and bring?  I want to use it as a template. 

Also guys.  Bring 4 copies each of your mechs.  I don't think we'll do 4 rounds but I want to have people be prepared for 3 depending on how many people we get.

I do not have a copy of that nor would it be my right to give it up if I did. Sorry.

[lordgoober]

Don't worry about it.  I changed my mind about scoring on this.

[Pjx]

I may show up as a voyeur. I do not have the time to create mech variations right now.

[slothagent]

Hey @lordgoober, thanks again for running this, it was tons of fun!

Here are my mech designs.  These are all IIC versions of Inner Sphere mechs inspired by (or straight-up stolen from) clan designs ... for added irony ;-) .

Blackjack IIC: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1xfVu2OfNaqX3h2RXF1UEFENkk
Hollander II IIC: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1xfVu2OfNaqMl9GNmtHdlB6d0E
Avatar IIC: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1xfVu2OfNaqODJVQTVyemh2UUE
Rakshasa IIC: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1xfVu2OfNaqSkQzNGtVcUg4enc
Sunder IIC: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1xfVu2OfNaqcVU5d3JIWF9YMTA

[Agathos]

I thought about a Rakshasa for the lols, but I went with a Falconer instead because I have a model for it. Too bad it never met your Rakshasa.

Falconer FLC-8R IIC
Clan advanced
85 tons 
BV: 3,352
Cost: 18,020,850 C-bills

Movement: 3/5/5
Engine: 255 XL
Heat Sinks: 18 [36]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 130
Armor: 256/263
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               27       40
Center Torso (rear)                 13
Right Torso                18       27
Right Torso (rear)                   8
Left Torso                 18       27
Left Torso (rear)                    8
Right Arm                  14       27
Left Arm                   14       27
Right Leg                  18       35
Left Leg                   18       35

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
ER PPC                          LA    15
Gauss Rifle                     RA     1
ER Medium Laser                 LT     5
ER Medium Laser                 LT     5
ER Medium Laser                 RT     5
ER Medium Laser                 RT     5

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
Gauss Ammo                      RA     8
Gauss Ammo                      RA     8
Gauss Ammo                      RA     8

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Standard                       None
Standard                       None
Targeting Computer              LT




Daikyu DAI-01-IIC
Clan advanced
75 tons 
BV: 2,333
Cost: 18,942,000 C-bills

Movement: 5/8
Engine: 375 XL
Heat Sinks: 13 [26]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 114 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 220/231 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               23       33
Center Torso (rear)                 10
Right Torso                16       25
Right Torso (rear)                   7
Left Torso                 16       25
Left Torso (rear)                    7
Right Arm                  12       23
Left Arm                   12       23
Right Leg                  16       29
Left Leg                   16       29

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
LB 5-X AC                       LA     1
ER PPC                          LA    15
LB 5-X AC                       RA     1
Large Pulse Laser               LT    10
LRM 5                           LT     2

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
LRM 5 Ammo                      LT    24
LB 5-X AC Ammo                  LT    20
LB 5-X Cluster Ammo             LT    20









Axman AXM-2N-IIC
 Mixed (Base Clan)
55 tons 
BV: 2,505
Cost: 11,883,282 C-bills

Movement: 5/8/7
Engine: 275 XL
Heat Sinks: 14 [28]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 91 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 176/185
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               18       27
Center Torso (rear)                  8
Right Torso                13       19
Right Torso (rear)                   6
Left Torso                 13       19
Left Torso (rear)                    6
Right Arm                   9       17
Left Arm                    9       17
Right Leg                  13       24
Left Leg                   13       24

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
ER Large Laser                  LA    12
ER Medium Laser                 LA     5
LRM 5                           LT     2
LRM 5                           RT     2
ER Medium Laser                 RT     5
ER Medium Laser                 HD     5

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
LRM 5 Ammo                      LT    24

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Standard                       None
Hatchet                         RA
Targeting Computer              LT








Stealth STH-1D-IIC
Clan experimental
45 tons 
BV: 2,110
Cost: 36,782,440 C-bills

Movement: 8/12(16)
Engine: 360 XXL
Heat Sinks: 13 [26]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 75 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 124/153 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               14       22
Center Torso (rear)                  6
Right Torso                11       17
Right Torso (rear)                   3
Left Torso                 11       17
Left Torso (rear)                    4
Right Arm                   7        5
Left Arm                    7        5
Right Leg                  11       18
Left Leg                   11       18

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
SRM 6                           LT     4
SRM 6                           RT     4
ER Medium Laser                 CT     5
ER Large Laser                  HD    12

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
SRM 6 (Clan) Artemis V-capable Ammo  LT    15

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Artemis V FCS                   LT
Targeting Computer              LT
MASC                            LT
Artemis V FCS                   RT









Panther PNT-9R-IIC
Clan advanced
45 tons 
BV: 2,102
Cost: 10,053,140 C-bills

Movement: 6/9/10
Engine: 270 XL
Heat Sinks: 10 [23]
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 75 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 144/153 (Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               14       21
Center Torso (rear)                  6
Right Torso                11       16
Right Torso (rear)                   5
Left Torso                 11       16
Left Torso (rear)                    5
Right Arm                   7       13
Left Arm                    7       13
Right Leg                  11       20
Left Leg                   11       20

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
ER PPC                          RA    15
Streak SRM 4                    HD     3

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
Streak SRM 4 Ammo               LT    25

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Targeting Computer              RA
Partial Wing                    LT