Clan grand melee tips

[Stallion12]

So a local group is doing a clan mech ffa, 2500 bv, 3055 timeline, what are some good choices?

[Jaim Magnus]

I presume you mean 3055.

Stormcrow, Pouncer, Timber Wolf, Warhawk are all solid choices.

[Stallion12]

Yea, fixed it. I meant 3055. I was leaning g towards timber wolf, what varient is best? Within 2500 bv that is.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Go with a mobile mech that's got ER PPCs or ER Large Lasers.  The point is to survive, not deal damage.

I would not use a Mad Cat: most variants are at or over 2500 BV without factoring in pilot and gunnery skills, and it's a good idea to have a 2 gunnery value on your mech: only the S, B, and E variants are under 2500 BV and you're still stuck with a 4/5 pilot.  I'd consider a Fenris Prime: you can get a 2/5 gunnery/pilot score and just run around sniping with your ER PPC.  Let the slower, more heavily armed mechs beat each other up for you while you just focus on making yourself as difficult a target as possible.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Mobility (preferably jump), armor, little or no ammo/explosive internals (don't forget to dump that ammo), pulse and/or TC accuracy or lower G/P skills, and some not inconsiderable luck is the proven formula for survival to the last few combatants.  These are all under 2500 BV2.

Vapor Eagle
Black Python
Nova S
Gargoyle D
Ebon Jaguar B
Timberwolf S
Stooping Hawk C
Fenris D
Coyotl A
Battle Cobra Prime

[JadeHellbringer]

I'll throw in a vote for the Viper B. The BV is awfully high, which sucks, but moving 8/12/8 means you're going to be a pain to hit- so people likely won't bother firing at you needing 11s if they can hit someone else at 8s, and if they DO shoot they'll likely miss. In return, you have... well, a couple of light weapons that no one will much care about, but that ER PPC is a beast to get hit with. You'll run hot if you jump and fire, but you can just as easily hop away into cover next turn and cool down if you so desire.

It's a carefully-used dagger as opposed to something like a Ryoken-B that is more of a simple 'close and fire!' Mech, so it takes some thinking and forethought to use it well, but it's hard to beat if you're careful. (Then again, Clan thinking sort of dictates "KILL ALL TEH THINGZ!", so if you want to play in-character as a bloodthirsty, glory-obsessed warrior it's not the best choice.)

[Colt Ward]

I would add a few more . . .

Huntsman Prime (2034) and H (2495) . . . you can get away with the H b/c of electronics, it jumps and it has a TC for the two best guns in the game- cERLL.  Prime jumps and has 2 LPL.

Then my personal favorite . . . Stooping Hawk C, 2 cERLL- one in CT and one in head- SFE, TC and 5/8/5 all @ 2435.

[Kovax]

Remember that at 4/5 skill, Speed = Armor.  At 2/3 skills, only Armor = Armor.  Clan Pulse means Speed =/= Armor, because those 4/5 pilots are effectively shooting as 2/5.  It depends on what you're facing.

I've taken fast mediums (Fenris, Dragonfly) into grand melee matches, with mixed results depending on the other 'Mechs.  In one case, another player took a RFL-IIC, and proceeded to core my 'Mech from close to maximum range, despite modifiers.

[JadeHellbringer]

I would add a few more . . .

Huntsman Prime (2034) and H (2495) . . . you can get away with the H b/c of electronics, it jumps and it has a TC for the two best guns in the game- cERLL.  Prime jumps and has 2 LPL.

Then my personal favorite . . . Stooping Hawk C, 2 cERLL- one in CT and one in head- SFE, TC and 5/8/5 all @ 2435.

I'll back all of these, but that Hawk in particular is disgusting. Blow off both side torsos and the arms to go with them? Meh, who cares? Stereo large lasers for all!

[Iron Mongoose]

As to speed is armor vs armor is armor... on the one hand, the best warriors traditionaly don't go into the meele, so in universe you'd expect a lot more average or below average types (which in the Clans still means plenty of 3s and a few 2s).  More over, speed can still become range, which in combination with a plethora of other targets can work as armor.  If you're 19 hexes out in a mech that just jumped six, even if you're facing down an elite but dezgra warrior in a Vapor Eagle and they could take a shot, chances are they'll just shoot the Timber Wolf who walked at 13. 

On that note, the meele is not really a place to show your honor as a warrior.  You're already on the outside anyway, and so are your opponents.  I wouldn't hesitate to use some mech you'd never dream of taking most days, like a Vapor Eagle or Ice Ferret D or Incubus (which one has the LPL? the 1 or the 3?) or something like that.  You still have to have a mech that can win one or two duals, since even if you can run around and not be shot till the end, you have to kill who ever does emerge from the meele. 

It wasn't spelled out if your skill points would come out of that avalable BV or not.  If 2500k is just for the mech and your pilot will be the skill they are, that might change the equasion, since there are a few solid, mobile, long ranged heavies that fit that bill.  If not, I'd pick more skill than less, since in later rounds it will become more essental than in a meele (if you intend to play more rounds).

[Colt Ward]

For the Grand Melee the biggest thing is surviving others . . . which means using terrain- so speed or jumping- to keep moving as the hardest mech to hit.  While the 5/8/5 meds I suggested are IMO the slowest that I think would qualify as a Grand Melee mech, they each have reasons to select them over a 6/9/6 or faster.  Your plan should be to let everyone else rip each other apart, working around the edges to get in some ranged killshots.

Btw, I did not see anyone mention it, but one of the 7/11/7 or whatever Hellions would work . . . as would a Crimson Langur.  The Prime is 7/11/5 with a ERLL, 2 HML, TC and LAP @1952 BV.  The B is 7/11/5 again, ATM9 and 3 ERMLs but the BV is higher at 2210.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Guys, remember that the OP said that the melee is occurring in 3055, so mechs like the Crimson Langur aren't yet available.

Though if you're looking for a 7/11/7 medium, the Grendel is.

[Colt Ward]

Makes sense why I forgot to include the Langur now . . .

I suppose you could also look at the Black Lanner . . . its just weird for a Falcon mech that it does not jump.

[Louie N]

Summoner D is how I won my grand melee

[JadeHellbringer]

Makes sense why I forgot to include the Langur now . . .

I suppose you could also look at the Black Lanner . . . its just weird for a Falcon mech that it does not jump.

Yeah, it's not one I'm a fan of as a result- same with the Fire Falcon. I mean, you can GET them to jump, but particularly in the Lanner's case it already has a pretty anemic weapon loadout usually due to that limited pod space- using some of that for jets doesn't help the cause. (Pity we don't seem to build other medium Omnimechs at that point in history though, unless you count the Cougar as wanting to be a medium. My kingdom to have Novas or Huntsmans!)

[Colt Ward]

I think the Lanner is fine . . . you just have to work with what it can do . . . it means like the Timberwolf its main guns need to be energy.  Its going to be a skirmisher rather than trying to hold the line like 5/8 mediums.  Problem is it really needs to be run like a oversized Phantom H if you want to stack weapons on it- Heavy Med or Small, massed SRMs, maybe MGs . . . when AP Gauss come out, they work for the design too though not as efficient as SRMs.  But its also not a great way to survive b/c you are a bit slower and if you gain too much heat you cannot jump away.

So the other alternative is cERLLs or ERPPCs with some back up LRMs or ATMs, and staying at a distance to slowly kill a target.

[Stallion12]

Forgot to mention, gunnery/pilot is 3/4 for free, I don't know if that changes suggestions.

[Iron Mongoose]

It does, to a degree.  If 3/4 is free, can you or others pay for 2/3 or even 1/2? (I'd expect most 1/2s would have been nominated for one of the other 31 spots, but a really dezgra Aiden Pryde type might slip through the cracks).

At 3/4, speed and range as survival tools are relitively viable.  Yes, you still have to watch out for TCs and pulse lasers (both seperately and together), but a running Fire Moth or Fire Falcon or Phantom or Black Lanner is going to be hard to tag with a basic LL or PPC at medium or long range, and anyone who slows down for a better shot at you or others is likely to be blasted in return for their trouble.  You have to work a bit harder than at 4/5, but its a lot easier than at 2/3.

Alternitively, since you don't need to pay (as much) for your own gunnery, picking a mech closer to the cap is more viable (both for you and your enemies).  If you had to pay for all your own skill, I'd have said pick a light mech at 1.4k and get a gunslinger type.  As is, I'd still find a way to get to 2/3, but that's just something I value, so you need to think about your style and sense of value.

[GermanSumo]

go for a close combat mech with standard engine (best option) and really high damage output (really good option). if you prefer to not have heat issues, use a cold mashine for constant alpha strike output. mobility is optional but not the most important. heavy clan should be optimal for endurance - mobility balance. :D 11 years later the burrock would be my weapon of choice. one of the thors could be a great option. i took the one with the acboom-ultra for maximised firepower, mobility and armor. and i find they are not priority targets due to them being perceived undergunned. skinny mediums and light clan mechs CAN dish out well, but they usually lack the endurance needed for a grand melee. and EVERYBODY will love to make a sneak shot on any light suddenly being on a reasonable to-hit number. :D

try to avoid getting into a fight with the assaults, though. these will be able to withstand your damage. AND avoid taking one of the assaults. too sluggish to avoid fire from basically anybody. and slow moving assaults are ALWAYS targets of opportunity.

p.s.: i KNOW this is quite different advice than what you got before :) but take it from an old experienced 3055 player. i went through some grand melees back then. a solid heavy will do the trick :)

[Stallion12]

I don't think we csn, I'll ask though, I think it's a plain 3/4 for everyone.

[Stallion12]

Can't change the 3/4, advancements are earned based on how well we do.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Kingfisher seems like a good choice to me: B, C, or D

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The issue with the Kingfisher is that in a melee you really don't want to wind up stuck with a slow moving mech that's only got token long-range weaponry against a bunch of faster mechs that have better long-range firepower.  They can just dance around sniping while you're forced to vainly attempt to catch them.

[Vonshroom]

Black Python

To me this is the end all be all mech for any sort of Melee or dual warfare. Really it is one of the best designed mechs I can think of. Odd it hasn't really been mentioned yet, although I see Natasha had it on her list.

Sure its a "second line mech" but it will wreck most omnis. For a melee as others have pointed out, you want pulse lasers, speed, armor, and preferably jump jets and a targeting computer. Well the Black Python happens to have all of those in a nasty package. It can run a bit hot, but you should have no trouble keeping the modifiers high on the enemy side while getting good shots with your large pulse lasers.

If given the choice I would take this mech over all others for a Grand Melee. And I would just dump the MG ammo on turn one. I would also argue in a melee anything with ammo is not good. One it will run out, two it will blow up. You can bet someone(s) is going to take an assault, thats a bad choice. Everyone is going to identify you as a primary target and you will probably go down fast. So assaults are really off the table for me, but it is necessary to have heavy armor, because there are going to be a lot of shots flying around.

Most mediums and pretty much all lights just don't have the armor, which translates to staying power that you need for a grand melee.

My second choice would be Vapor Eagle.

Really my reasons for choosing it are the same as the Python.

[Vonshroom]

Can't change the 3/4, advancements are earned based on how well we do.

Actually you can.... with a targeting computer and pulse lasers! ;)

[THUD]

Black Python

To me this is the end all be all mech for any sort of Melee or dual warfare. Really it is one of the best designed mechs I can think of. Odd it hasn't really been mentioned yet, although I see Natasha had it on her list.

Sure its a "second line mech" but it will wreck most omnis. For a melee as others have pointed out, you want pulse lasers, speed, armor, and preferably jump jets and a targeting computer. Well the Black Python happens to have all of those in a nasty package. It can run a bit hot, but you should have no trouble keeping the modifiers high on the enemy side while getting good shots with your large pulse lasers.

If given the choice I would take this mech over all others for a Grand Melee. And I would just dump the MG ammo on turn one. I would also argue in a melee anything with ammo is not good. One it will run out, two it will blow up. You can bet someone(s) is going to take an assault, thats a bad choice. Everyone is going to identify you as a primary target and you will probably go down fast. So assaults are really off the table for me, but it is necessary to have heavy armor, because there are going to be a lot of shots flying around.

Most mediums and pretty much all lights just don't have the armor, which translates to staying power that you need for a grand melee.

My second choice would be Vapor Eagle.

Really my reasons for choosing it are the same as the Python.

This. 100% agree.

[Stallion12]

Actually you can.... with a targeting computer and pulse lasers! ;)

very true.

[Stallion12]

Black Python

To me this is the end all be all mech for any sort of Melee or dual warfare. Really it is one of the best designed mechs I can think of. Odd it hasn't really been mentioned yet, although I see Natasha had it on her list.

Sure its a "second line mech" but it will wreck most omnis. For a melee as others have pointed out, you want pulse lasers, speed, armor, and preferably jump jets and a targeting computer. Well the Black Python happens to have all of those in a nasty package. It can run a bit hot, but you should have no trouble keeping the modifiers high on the enemy side while getting good shots with your large pulse lasers.

If given the choice I would take this mech over all others for a Grand Melee. And I would just dump the MG ammo on turn one. I would also argue in a melee anything with ammo is not good. One it will run out, two it will blow up. You can bet someone(s) is going to take an assault, thats a bad choice. Everyone is going to identify you as a primary target and you will probably go down fast. So assaults are really off the table for me, but it is necessary to have heavy armor, because there are going to be a lot of shots flying around.

Most mediums and pretty much all lights just don't have the armor, which translates to staying power that you need for a grand melee.

My second choice would be Vapor Eagle.

Really my reasons for choosing it are the same as the Python.

Is Black Python 3 ok? It's the only one who fits the allowed bv.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Is Black Python 3 ok? It's the only one who fits the allowed bv.

No, those heavy lasers, while delivering more damage, incur a +1 targeting roll modifier, making it harder to hit enemy units.  The 3 also only jumps 4 hexes.  Plus, I don't think it exists circa 3055.

It was my mistake to put the Black Python on my list.  It is outside the BV2 limit.  (I must have been looking at BV1.)  I crossed it out above.

Given that everyone's skills are fixed at 3/4, I'd go with the Vapor Eagle (Goshawk).  The Eagle has 6/9/6 movement, which means you can dance at the extreme ranges of your opponents' weapons and seek cover for most of the match and force +3 movement modifiers on them while doing so.  It has 9 tons (173 points) of ferro armor, which is very good for a 55-ton mech and should shrug off a few lucky hits.  And the Eagle carries a large pulse laser for sniping at long range through most of the match and three medium pulse lasers for taking down opponents at the end of the match.  The -2 targeting roll from these pulse lasers will offset your average 4 gunnery and your running/jumping movement.  And it comes in under the limit at 2,368 BV2.

There aren't many downsides to the Eagle but one is that it carries Streak SRM-2s, machine guns, and their associated ammo.  You need to watch the armor around those ammo bins and dump the ammo when they're in danger of being breached.  You may even want to dump it on the very first turn if you think you'll forget.

The other downside to the Eagle is that it is largely a finesse mech.  It can bully lights and some mediums but it just can't lumber into the middle of a firefight against a bunch of heavies or assaults and expect to last more than a couple or few turns.  If that's your style of play, then take one of the bigger, slower designs from my list.  But if you're comfortable staying away from other mechs, jumping behind cover, taking potshots for most of the match, and only seriously engaging towards the end to finish off an opponent or two, the Eagle is about as good as it comes for canon designs in that era.

Finally, the Eagle, while very mobile, is not the absolute fastest design.  Watch for speed freaks with close-ranged weapons.  There's always someone with something like a Fire Moth D who, if they get the initiative, will run in behind you and try gut your rear armor.

Best of luck.  Do your Bloodhouse proud.

[Iron Mongoose]

The Vapor Eagle, or really any Clan TC/Pulse laser mech, is nearly never bad tactical advise (though it can be bad social advise, since people tend to despise such mechs).  I my self spoke up for it, since at least in cherictor the Grand Melee is less of a place to make friends than any place else.  If you have the patiance to keep the range open and speed up (remember that a TC of 7 is vastly better than a TN of 10, but 4 isn't that much better than 7) and just try and influance the battle at the margins until the end (and hope the eventual winner isn't some monster like a Kingfisher that people managed to ignore all battle) you probably have as good a chance as any other.

Of course, is that what you want?  If I'm a Clan warrior trying for a long shot chance to pass his genes on (and by the way move up dramaticly in the social pecking order) then I'll take the Vapor Eagle (or an omni customized to a similar configuration; do you have such an option?) but if I'm a board game player looking for a challange or to have a good time with my friends, maybe I leave it at home.

The Fire Moth D was named above, and with 3/4 pilots if you're feeling very daring and very, very lucky it could carry the day.  Keep to medium range and +4 movement mods, and opponents should be looking at 9+ TNs to hit you.  Of course, one lucky PPC or GR can wreck your day, but with the ability to run 20 and tag some fool with five TCed ER MLs, you can ruin days right back.  I also like the Phantom C (right? with the pile of ER SLs and the TC).  Less range hurts, as does less speed, but it's got way more armor so it takes several lucky hits to put you down, and with less range you're less of a threat, which can discourage pot shots.  Either can dart in an just assassinate a vulnerable mech at will during the battle, and pick off enemies one by one. 

[Sharkapult]

If you are using the Firemoth D, a bit of advice from an online friend, the MASC should only be used when your heat drops your speed after a turn or two of alpha ing. Don't ever rush in and activate your MASC the turn of your alpha. Use the MASC as your GTFO button.

[Vonshroom]

Is Black Python 3 ok? It's the only one who fits the allowed bv.

Wow, my bad on this one. I see Natasha K was thinking along the same lines, maybe a little bit of the Mandela Effect? Seriously though, the Black Python in its standard configuration is my go to for clan mechs. All the other variants of the mech really give something up over the original. While the 3 is usable, it almost fills another role, and plays very differently from the standard model. I would honestly advise against it. Too hard to hit, too much heat for the HLLasers to do much good. In a protracted fight, its not a good proposition. Thats a bummer about the BV... would be a perfect unit.

So I'd personally run the Vapor Eagle. Natasha and Iron Mongoose posted good replies on a little bit of what to expect in using one. One thing to really watch for is backshooters. You have thin rear armor with this mech so you have to really keep track of who can move where how fast.

With that said there are some other fun units out there.

I've seen some suggest the Firemoth. I'd steer clear here, unless your names Alethea Kabrinksi, and well.... yeah. Too little armor for a protracted engagement. Sure "speed is armor" but I guarantee you someone you are going to be playing already thought up the whole Gee Whiz! Targeting computers and pulse lasers make for a nasty combo! deal. So when it boils down to it, speed can act as armor, but it really isn't armor. You're just giving up too much with a single mech choice.

If you like the speedy backstab idea though, check out these two...

Ice Ferret Prime / D

Quick, good armor, decent weapons, D comes with 4 Medium Pulse lasers, 8/12 movement is as fast as you need to go realistically. You will likely get ignored as well, allowing you to work in and deal some damage. Always keep mods high by running as much as possible.

Viper A

A Suite of Medium lasers backed by an SRM give you lots of good close range weaponry. Just as fast as the Ice Ferret, and fun too. Similar play style. Always run to push mods up. Jump jets let you get in and out of positions quick if you win initiative.

And for a slightly different play-style..


Summoner A

My favorite version of the Summoner, I find it lends itself fairly well to protracted engagements. I generally have had good luck with them. You have a fairly straightforward weapons suite of a Gauss, Large Pulse, and SRM 6. I know some of you reading this are probably shaking their heads at my liking of the Summoner A, and opening statements. Most see this as lackluster due to the fact that it carries only a single ton of Gauss Ammo, and two tons of SRM ammo for the 6 Shooter. While this might be a sin, sometimes a little sin is good. The Summoner A is literally about as oversinked as it can get. It's never going to overheat. It can alpha, jump, get hit by infernos, flamers, whatever. Its cool running. Use infernos in the second ton of SRM ammo. I guarantee you that in a Grand Melee, you will be able to put those to deadly effect.

Most clan mechs run hot, you aren't going to risk the threat of cooking off your infernos really at all, and since your opponents will likely be hot, smacking them with up to 12 additional heat per turn can be crippling. A ton of Standard SRM's work for critseekers. Fire your Gauss extremely sparingly. With only a ton of ammo you will run out. Only shoot when the shot is good and the modifier is low.

With this mech, it is best to pick around the edges of a fight. Pick on units someone else has already hit. Try to stay mobile and in cover, but come out and smack something when it needs it.

[JadeHellbringer]

I don't have the books handy, but if the BV works (and it SHOULD), the Phantom-C could be intriguing. Dash up behind someone, deliver a Pink Floyd laser light show into their rear armor, run away giggling like a madman, repeat as needed.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The problem with a short-range fighter like the Phantom C is that standard Melee rules require you to always move into weapon range every round.  For something that's got so little range, that can force you into some bad locations or require moves that don't allow you to build up a high enough TMM to stay alive.

[Colt Ward]

Where?  I have never seen any rules for one except only one can leave.  Even in strict dueling, you do not have to constantly stay in your weapons range- or that of the opponent.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The last time I was at a Grand Melee, they clarified that this line

Each player MUST fire every turn on a target to which he has a valid LOS, under the following two conditions:

    A player does not have to fire any weapons that use ammo.
    A player does not have to overheat his OmniMech when firing. However, he must come as close as possible—including the heat generated during the Movement Phase—to the maximum heat dissipation capabilities of his OmniMech.

required you to attempt to get within weapons' range of an opponent every round.  If all opponents then moved outside of your weapon range or broke LOS, that was fine because it was out of your control, but there wasn't any "I'm going to sit back here 40 hexes from the big furball on the far side of the map and not do anything until I can rush in with my Dasher and finish off the last one" allowed.  Fast mechs with ER Large Lasers were very effective (and that was how I won the melee; we were limited to light mechs and I took a Hankyu H and sniped).

[wantec]

Unless there's another sentence or two missing, what you quoted just says LOS "line of sight", not "you must be in weapons range AND have line of sight".


As for 'Mechs, I love the Phantom C idea, or at least I would if you could use the remaining BV to upgrade your pilot, that thing's only 1590 BV2. If you're limited to staying within weapons range and LOS than the Grendel Prime or D would work well, fast jumping 'Mechs with either an ERLL or ERPPC and some backup weapons. If you want something bigger, with more armor and a bigger gun, there's the Stormcrow B or its big brother the Gargoyle C. Both have a UAC/20 and 6x ERML. The Gargoyle just has 2 more tons of armor and 6 more double heat sinks.

The Rifleman IIC has a pair of LPLs...in each arm, making it a lot easier to hit things at long range. The Linebacker D is 6/9 speed with a pair of ERMLs and 4 SSRM6s to crit everything in sight. If you really want a Timber Wolf, there's the C variant with twin LRM15s, twin ERLLs, a UAC/5, ERML, and AMS right at 2500 BV2. The Warhammer IIC 2 is an 80-ton beast with twin ERPPCs, twin LRM15s, and an SRM6 rack. If you want a Kingfisher for the zombie factor, I'd pick the D, a trio or ERLLs and a UAC/10.

And then there's always Hellbie's favorite, the Bane. Quad machine guns back up 10 UAC/2s all protected in 19 tons of armor, almost the max a 100-tonner can carry.

[JadeHellbringer]

And then there's always Hellbie's favorite, the Bane. Quad machine guns back up 10 UAC/2s all protected in 19 tons of armor, almost the max a 100-tonner can carry.

I can't help but notice that you're not on fire right now. Please see to that problem immediately.  ;D

(I have an unseen Bane on my shelf in green/gray swamp camo, and every time I glance at it I have a strong urge to just hurl it as hard as I can into the woods next to my house. It's instinctual at this point.)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Unless there's another sentence or two missing, what you quoted just says LOS "line of sight", not "you must be in weapons range AND have line of sight".

Please reread what I wrote: I said that it was clarified at the tournament that the quoted line meant that you did have to make an attempt to get into a position where you were in weapons range every round.

[wantec]

I can't help but notice that you're not on fire right now. Please see to that problem immediately.  ;D

(I have an unseen Bane on my shelf in green/gray swamp camo, and every time I glance at it I have a strong urge to just hurl it as hard as I can into the woods next to my house. It's instinctual at this point.)

I'm not on fire, but it sure feels like it. The AC in the office is not working on my floor. All the other floors seem to functioning fine.

[JadeHellbringer]

I'm not on fire, but it sure feels like it. The AC in the office is not working on my floor. All the other floors seem to functioning fine.

Justice is served. ;)

Take note, folks- always install double-strength heat sinks on your freelancers lest they overheat and shut down.

[Stallion12]

Thanks guys, I'll let you know what I decide and how it goes.

[wantec]

Justice is served. ;)

Take note, folks- always install double-strength heat sinks on your freelancers lest they overheat and shut down.

Or make sure the office fridge and vending machine are well-stocked with coolant pods, gone through a few more of those than normal already.

[JadeHellbringer]

Or make sure the office fridge and vending machine are well-stocked with coolant pods, gone through a few more of those than normal already.

"Gatorade. It is in you, quiaff?"

[Colt Ward]

Thanks guys, I'll let you know what I decide and how it goes.

Yeah, definitely let us know!  Pictures are good too.

[Stallion12]

The terrain is going to have a lot of woods, rivers as ND hills, does that change as my of the suggestions?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yes, you definitely want to have a jumper.  Remember, you can't enter a water hex using running MP, so crossing a 1-hex river takes 5 MP (entering the hex +1 for water and +1 for elevation change, then entering the next hex with +1 for another elevation change).  Non-jumping mechs will have their maneuverability cut dramatically on a map like this.

[Vonshroom]

The terrain is going to have a lot of woods, rivers as ND hills, does that change as my of the suggestions?

Well for some, I would still point you towards the mechs I suggested, Vapor Eagle, Viper, Summoner. I would select them in that order for me.

Yes, you definitely want to have a jumper.  Remember, you can't enter a water hex using running MP, so crossing a 1-hex river takes 5 MP (entering the hex +1 for water and +1 for elevation change, then entering the next hex with +1 for another elevation change).  Non-jumping mechs will have their maneuverability cut dramatically on a map like this.

Basically what Ogre said. That is solid advice. You need jump jets.

[Vonshroom]

The terrain is going to have a lot of woods, rivers as ND hills, does that change as my of the suggestions?

Also look at your mechs heat sinks, if it runs hot, probably a bad bet. If you are playing with forest fires you can easily find yourself overheated. Thats where a unit like the Summoner A shines.

[Sir Chaos]

Stooping Hawk A: 5/8/5 movement, twin ER PPCs, 17 double heat sinks. It´s reasonably fast, jump capable, barely overheats even when firing and jumping, survivable due to a standard engine, and with its ER PPCs it packs one hell of a punch at long range.

[Colt Ward]

The C is still the better Stooping Hawk, it has a TC and the ERLL are in the CT and Head which means you will not lose your main guns.

[Natasha Kerensky]

The terrain is going to have a lot of woods, rivers as ND hills, does that change as my of the suggestions?

You need jumpers to get over woods and rivers while still inflicting high movement modifiers on your opponents.  Even the fastest runners will be at a disadvantage.

And you need some weapons with negative targeting modifiers (pulse lasers, TCs, LB-X cluster) to offset your jumping movement modifier and woods terrain targeting modifiers.  With 3 gunnery all around, players will rarely connect otherwise.  Some earlier strategies relying on potshots at extreme range with unmodified ER large lasers don't work well in this terrain.

And again, these considerations come on top of the usual Grand Melee dictums about mobility (more is better) and survivability (high armor, low ammo, SFE if possible).

Limiting to jumpers removes some options from my earlier list.  Here's how I'd rank the remaining ones and a few new ones:

Vapor Eagle, BV2=2368, Move=6/9/6, XLE+ammo, PLL & PMLx3 + TC

Timber Wolf S, BV2=2462, Move=5/8/5, XLE+ammo, PLL & PMLx2

Guillotine IIC, BV2=2377, Move=4/6/4, SFE+ammo, PLLx2

Rifleman IIC, BV2=2307, Move=3/5/3, SFE+no ammo, PLLx4

Stooping Hawk C, BV2=2435, Move=5/8/5, SFE+centerline+no ammo, ERLLx2 & ERMLx2 + TC

Summoner A, BV2=2145, Move=5/8/5, XLE+ammo, PLL

Nova S, BV2=2061, Move=5/8/5, XLE+ammo, PMLx6

Summoner Prime, BV2=2298, Move=5/8/5, XLE+ammo, LB-X

Coyotl A, BV2=1753, Move=7/11/7, XLE+ammo, PLL & PSL

Viper Prime, BV2=1450, Move=8/12/8, XLE+ammo, PMLx2

Pouncer D, BV2=2246, Move=6/9/6, XLE+ammo, ERMLx6+TC

Mongrel C, BV2=1465, Move=7/11/7, XLE+ammo, LB 10-X

Kit Fox S, BV2=1342, Move=6/9/6, XLE+ammo, PLL & PML & PSL

IMO, the Vapor Eagle continues to be the best choice.  It's the only option that completely offsets its jumping modifiers with a targeting computer and pulse lasers (at both long- and mid-range).  Nothing else has that -3 combined targeting modifier.  Yes, it's munchy, but if you want to go far in the melee, it's the surest bet.  Just remember to dump the ammo before it becomes exposed.

If you don't want to be "that guy" with the munch machine, I'd run the T-Wolf S.  A little slower and less accurate, but the heavier armor helps make up for it.  Again, don't forget to dump the ammo before it becomes exposed.  But the massed SRM racks may come in handy if you step into a furball before then.

Hope this helps.

[Edits:  Moved the Nova S and Stooping Hawk C up above the Summoners.  Added Guillotine IIC]

[Vonshroom]

You need jumpers to get over woods and rivers while still inflicting high movement modifiers on your opponents.  Even the fastest runners will be at a disadvantage.

And you need some weapons with negative targeting modifiers (pulse lasers, TCs, LB-X cluster) to offset your jumping movement modifier and woods terrain targeting modifiers.  With 4 gunnery all around, players will rarely connect otherwise.  Some earlier strategies relying on potshots at extreme range with unmodified ER large lasers don't work well in this terrain.

And again, these considerations come on top of the usual Grand Melee dictums about mobility (more is better) and survivability (high armor, low ammo, SFE if possible).

Limiting to jumpers removes some options from my earlier list.  Here's how I'd rank the remaining ones and a few new ones:

Vapor Eagle, BV2=2368, Move=6/9/6, XLE+ammo, PLL & PMLx3 + TC

Timber Wolf S, BV2=2462, Move=5/8/5, XLE+ammo, PLL & PMLx2

Summoner A, BV2=2145, Move=5/8/5, XLE+ammo, PLL

Stooping Hawk C, BV2=2435, Move=5/8/5, SFE+centerline+no ammo, ERLLx2 & ERMLx2 + TC

Summoner Prime, BV2=2298, Move=5/8/5, XLE+ammo, LB-X

Nova S, BV2=2061, Move=5/8/5, XLE+ammo, PMLx6

Coyotl A, BV2=1753, Move=7/11/7, XLE+ammo, PLL & PSL

Viper Prime, BV2=1450, Move=8/12/8, XLE+ammo, PMLx2

Pouncer D, BV2=2246, Move=6/9/6, XLE+ammo, ERMLx6+TC

Mongrel C, BV2=1465, Move=7/11/7, XLE+ammo, LB 10-X

Kit Fox S, BV2=1342, Move=6/9/6, XLE+ammo, PLL & PML & PSL

IMO, the Vapor Eagle continues to be the best choice.  It's the only option that completely offsets its jumping modifiers with a targeting computer and pulse lasers (at both long- and mid-range).  Nothing else has that -3 combined targeting modifier.  Yes, it's munchy, but if you want to go far in the melee, it's the surest bet.  Just remember to dump the ammo before it becomes exposed.

If you don't want to be "that guy" with the munch machine, I'd run the T-Wolf S.  A little slower and less accurate, but the heavier armor helps make up for it.  Again, don't forget to dump the ammo before it becomes exposed.  But the massed SRM racks may come in handy if you step into a furball before then.

Hope this helps.

Natasha pretty well nailed it. I would also advise a unit that has a decent amount of weapons. This way even if a couple of weapons get critted you don't completely lose effectiveness.

Nova is always a fun mech to play as well. I was worried it would be outside your BV, originally, but only BV 2 I guess...

Honestly another solid choice.

[Kovax]

With the limitation of 4 gunnery skill, that makes speed viable, although TC and Pulse can still ruin your day if you don't take something with enough armor to survive a hit.  Anything like a Dasher is probably a bad idea, since even one ERPPC hit could effectively knock you out of play.  Assuming you run, opponent walks, and you can stay at long range (which may be impossible if enough other players try to keep the range open): base of 8 to hit at range, +2 or +3 for your movement, +1 for theirs, and -1 to -3 for Pulse and/or TC gives them shots at anywhere from 8 to 11 plus terrain modifiers.

Basically, anything with Pulse Lasers will be a real threat unless you can take a few solid hits.  If they're fast enough to get into shorter ranges, it's worse.  With intro tech, that would be 11+ to hit, plus terrain, so a light, fast design would be VERY viable.

A design with a long-range gun and some serious close-in weaponry might prove to be a good choice.  You can move and snipe from long range to meet the rules requirement, and be a poor target in return, yet nobody will dare close with you.

[Colt Ward]

Not sure where folks are getting the 4 gunnery stuff . . . the OP said he was allowed 3g/4p but was unable to spend left over BV to improve the skills.

And I just came up with another option . . . the Guillotine IIC . . . 2 LPL & a ERPPC, SFE, 4/6/4 . . . slower than I suggested, but mobile with the jumpjets and a SFE . . . problem is the big weapons are in the arms.  And you want to dump the ammo from the CT for the SRM6.  But at 2377 its a brutal option if you think the terrain will slow other non-jumpers down enough.

[JadeHellbringer]

Dump... the SRM ammo...?



The Mech has powerful hole-punching weapons, but that SRM gives you the ability to exploit those holes with crit-seeking. Never mind that as a Clan Mech, it has CASE built in already, plus a standard engine- so if my ammo goes off, well, that sucks, whatever, my pilot has a hangover from it.

No way I'd ditch that ammo. Then again, I openly admit to being a gushing SRM-fanboy.

[Colt Ward]

 . . . the ammo is in the CT?

[Weirdo]

Dump it when you get thin, maybe.

Given how many other mechs are going to be stocked up on hole-punchers(imagine an entire melee of people that read this thread), having a crit-seeker like that will be an invaluable way to take advantage of other people's work in addition to your own.

[JadeHellbringer]

. . . the ammo is in the CT?

Eh, thought it was a side torso. Either way, still wouldn't ditch it- the potential risk is outweighed by its usefulness.

[Kovax]

Not sure where folks are getting the 4 gunnery stuff . . . the OP said he was allowed 3g/4p but was unable to spend left over BV to improve the skills.

My mistake.  With 3/4 pilots, it's even worse for relying on speed for a thinly armored 'Mech.  Not that speed isn't helpful, but you really can't depend on not getting hit, and hit repeatedly.  I don't think I'd take anything under a medium, and a decently fast Heavy would be my preference.  As said, I'd go for a variant with one long-range weapon and some powerful in-fighting capabilities, so other stuff keeps a respectful distance.  That means higher mutual THNs, and hopefully less shots at you than at closer and easier targets.

The guy with quad Large Pulses, dual PPCs, or Gauss Rifles is a threat to everyone at any range, and will get shot at; the guy with paper thin armor is an easy kill, and will get shot at the first easy opportunity.  The guy way over there who can't do a whole lot to me as long as I'm way over here isn't a priority target, and I'll likely shoot at something else, and simply not go over there for a while.

[Natasha Kerensky]

And I just came up with another option . . . the Guillotine IIC . . . 2 LPL & a ERPPC, SFE, 4/6/4 . . . slower than I suggested, but mobile with the jumpjets and a SFE . . .

That is a solid choice. 

The Guillotine IIC's 4-6-4 movement and 192 points of armor aren't the best and it still doesn't get to -3 target modifiers.  So I'd still take the Vapor Eagle (6-9-6 movement, 173 points of armor, -3 target modifiers) and Timber Wolf S (5-8-5 movement, 230 points of armor, -2 target modifiers) over the Guillotine IIC.

But with an SFE and two long-ranged weapons with -2 targeting modifiers, the Guillotine IIC probably beats the Summoner (182 points of armor, XLE, and only one -2 or -1 long-range weapon) and the Stooping Hawk (173 points of armor, SFE, and two -1 long-range weapons) and everything else on the list.

Taking the IIC logic a little further... the Rifleman IIC is 2,307BV2.  Four pulse large lasers, the freezers to use them, and 211 armor points with an SFE and no ammo is nothing to sneeze at, even if it moves 3/5/3.

[Mattlov]

I would add a few more . . .

Huntsman Prime (2034) and H (2495) . . . you can get away with the H b/c of electronics, it jumps and it has a TC for the two best guns in the game- cERLL.  Prime jumps and has 2 LPL.

In 3055 the Huntsman H would not be available...

A Nova Prime is always a fun choice for a melee.  Absolutely NO ONE is going to get close to you, so if you stay mobile, you shouldn't take much damage.  Close when you can, murder, wait for next opportunity.

[Vonshroom]

I think speed is really the way to go here. Especially in heavy woods. Its not so you can "close with the enemy and make your shots count". Its so they don't close with you and kill you. Sure a Guillotine IIC or Rifleman IIC is a brick, has plenty of LPL's and JJ with great armor, but they miss the maneuverability category. The other major problem with them is that other players are going to specifically target you. I would be extremely leery about having the "baddest mech on the block" when it comes to a melee. Because guess who everyone is going to want to shoot first.

And come on....we are talking clanners here. Guess who they'll shoot.

Taking the IIC logic a little further... the Rifleman IIC is 2,307BV2.  Four pulse large lasers, the freezers to use them, and 211 armor points with an SFE and no ammo is nothing to sneeze at, even if it moves 3/5/3.

Now ironically I think it might have a slightly greater chance than the Guillotine IIC even with the slower movement. At these speeds 4/6/4 - 3/5/3 you honestly cannot afford to carry ammo. Even with an SFE. You will get critted. The Rifleman IIC is nasty, but I think it will face the same issue of being singled out. Could be a lot of fun to use though. ;)

The Huntsman A is another decent idea, it is giving up a lot of tonnage on that LB-2X for a mech on mech battle though..almost too much.

[JadeHellbringer]

In 3055 the Huntsman H would not be available...

A Nova Prime is always a fun choice for a melee.  Absolutely NO ONE is going to get close to you, so if you stay mobile, you shouldn't take much damage.  Close when you can, murder, wait for next opportunity.

I suppose you could trade out the H's heavy lasers for ERMLs and not suffer too badly... obviously not if you have to stick to canon configs, but it's at least workable. Lose some power, gain some range.

[Kovax]

The Rifleman IIC is nasty, but I think it will face the same issue of being singled out. Could be a lot of fun to use though. ;)

I recall one grand melee where someone took a RFL-IIC.  It tore up a couple of Mediums, and was an absolute beast, at least until practically everyone on the table started shooting at it.  Thanks to its lethargic movement, it couldn't do anything to avoid the attention.  It wasn't the first 'Mech to die, but it really didn't last long.  When you're a conspicuously dangerous target, you get shot at......a lot.

[Weirdo]

Are TacOps rules allowed in a Grand Melee? Because a Black Hawk Prime actually gains a fair amount of sustained damage potential if you dial down the power on the lasers a bit. :)

[Stallion12]

Are TacOps rules allowed in a Grand Melee? Because a Black Hawk Prime actually gains a fair amount of sustained damage potential if you dial down the power on the lasers a bit. :)

I think it's basic rules unless gear is only found in tac ops, but what rule are you referring to?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

He's referring to the TacOps rule by which lasers can be dialed down for reduced damage and heat.

[Weirdo]

Bingo. You're only dishing out five-point hits, but the sheer number of lasers you can safely fire when they're only generating three heat apiece makes up for it, especially if you're in the mood for crit-seeking.

[Stallion12]

Haven't been on the site, made it to the second to last round, took out the warhammer I was engaged with, but the warhammer and two assualt mech jumped me. Had I known they were going to do that, I would have positoned differently, the following round the assualt mech basic took each other out.

[Colt Ward]

Must have missed it, but what did you use?  And if it was a Clan mech, it was a Warhammer IIC which is also a assault.

Had someone posting on FB how official Grand Melee rules (never told where they were published) said you could only use a heavy.

[casperionx]

Where's the hunchy IIC?? If you really want to earn some kudos, nothing is better (or probably more fragile).

Otherwise, can you take a spheroid mech? Wouldnt be the first time according to the cannon if memory serves correct?

[Stallion12]

Must have missed it, but what did you use?  And if it was a Clan mech, it was a Warhammer IIC which is also a assault.

Had someone posting on FB how official Grand Melee rules (never told where they were published) said you could only use a heavy.

I used the goshawk, and it was a mkiic the warhammer. The guy running it also allowed a murder because his one player only ever wants to play them.

[JadeHellbringer]

Hard to argue with the Goshawk, at least the standard version. Jump jets, pulse lasers, and a targeting computer, with some SRMs for crit-seeking? Perfection, if a bit cheesy. (Dump that MG ammo, son!). But hey, it's a Grand Melee, cheese is encouraged!

...that said, if you have a player who will only use assault Mechs and nothing else, that sucks- adapt to the game or don't play, dude. I used to be the same way when I first started out- if it was under 85 tons it was crap. Now, I'm a jaded Jade Falcon who doesn't use assaults unless forced into it in-general, preferring mediums and fast heavies. You learn new tricks as you play the game- but you have to actually play other units to learn them. (Actually, a Goshawk getting behind an assault Mech is pretty entertaining. You're fast and jump-capable, so you can almost always either get back there to munch on that sweet back-armor, or hop to safety if you need to.)

[blackjack]

Been a long time since I messed with grand melee game. Clarification needed. I thought that only Omnimechs were allowed? Nova S , Huntsman A or B & dang near any stormcrow.

[Firesprocket]

Between it schooling me a few times and a duel where I used one against a Masakari years ago, I attribute the Goshawk as the mech that helped me see the light that a balanced mech is typically one that reliant on armor.

[wantec]

Been a long time since I messed with grand melee game. Clarification needed. I thought that only Omnimechs were allowed? Nova S , Huntsman A or B & dang near any stormcrow.

I think for the grand melee that's not set in stone. For the Bloodright tournament it's almost guaranteed Omnis only, but in the melee you see all the folks who didn't get a nomination and are battling for that last spot. As such, those folks probably won't necessarily have the best units available to them.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It depends on the Clan, too.  Clans with a tendency to put non-omnis in their front line units will be more likely to have them in Bloodrite trials, too.

[Frogfoot]

It depends on the Clan, too.  Clans with a tendency to put non-omnis in their front line units will be more likely to have them in Bloodrite trials, too.

This. There's also some specialist duelling mechs like the Vapour Eagle and Black Python, and it wouldn't surprise me to see non-omni totem mechs used too. I bet at least one Ghost Bear has won a Bloodname using a Kodiak.