I have a question about extinct Mechs

[L. Y. Deschain]

So I know what extinct means, doesn't exist anymore. But I also know the terms a little loose since some designs resurface. Mostly after designs are found and someone begins making it again.

My question is, even with the label could a very small amount be around. Maybe a family maintaining a mech for hundreds of years? I mostly want to see it anyone also has a source explaining it. Or examples of Mechs that are extinct in an era but still a few known to be around.

[Maingunnery]

So I know what extinct means, doesn't exist anymore. But I also know the terms a little loose since some designs resurface. Mostly after designs are found and someone begins making it again.

My question is, even with the label could a very small amount be around. Maybe a family maintaining a mech for hundreds of years? I mostly want to see it anyone also has a source explaining it. Or examples of Mechs that are extinct in an era but still a few known to be around.

Extinct mostly means 'no known' examples anywhere.
Finding one will almost require finding examples that have been lost in combat but have not been recovered, such as floating into deep space or having been buried under an avalanche.     
So its have to be found by accident.

[Frabby]

Star League era caches have been known to occasionally contain lostech, and could conceivably yield an "extinct" 'Mech design. That, or ComStar kept one in store at some obscure place.

Major exaples of finds of extinct stuff in SL caches include the Helm and New Dallas memory cores, and the Headhunter missiles from the story Starfire.

The Falcon was considered an extinct design outside of Wolf's Dragoons, yet one modded specimen was seen taking part in the Noisiel 'Mech Games in one Chaos Irregulars story.

[Cyc]

The Falcon was considered an extinct design outside of Wolf's Dragoons, yet one modded specimen was seen taking part in the Noisiel 'Mech Games in one Chaos Irregulars story.

The Falcon is a good example that the extinct status can change. Extinct after the Falcon factory got nuked in 2789, until the Dragoons turned up with sizable numbers in 3010, before Blackwell began manufacturing it again as the budget 'Mech for mercs (and why it pop up at Noisiel) in the 3060s.

[JadeHellbringer]

It's also important to look at WHY a design is extinct. In the case of something like the Goliath, the design wasn't made in wide numbers and after the loss of its factory was well on its way to extinction before new versions began production as part of Project Phoenix. On the other hand, the Von Rorhs was very specifically made to go extinct, with the DCMS making sure never to replace losses or produce new examples.

In both cases, production had entirely ceased, and losses were basically permanent. In the Goliath's case though, effort was put in by those who had the few survivors around to keep them running- same for other oddballs like the Shogun, Falcon, Grasshopper, etc., while no effort was given to saving designs like the Von Rorhs or Pulverizer.

Another factor is whether the design was sound enough to survive years of refits and repairs. Grasshoppers are tough to kill, and seem to be repaired easily enough to be back in the field eventually after all but the most severe damage. On the other hand, the Wakizashi was an excellent design by the record sheet stats, but apparently was difficult to repair and maintain, so that design's extinction likely is due less to combat losses and more to being what in aviation would be termed a 'hangar queen'.

[The_Livewire]

Another factor is whether the design was sound enough to survive years of refits and repairs. Grasshoppers are tough to kill, and seem to be repaired easily enough to be back in the field eventually after all but the most severe damage. On the other hand, the Wakizashi was an excellent design by the record sheet stats, but apparently was difficult to repair and maintain, so that design's extinction likely is due less to combat losses and more to being what in aviation would be termed a 'hangar queen'.

And quirks can help explain a lot of this.  For example I love the Firefly, have an irrational attachment to it.  But with it just having negative quirks (no/limited arms and no torso twist) I can see it falling by the wayside vs, say a Valk or even a Thorn.

[Red Pins]

Depending on the period you're interested in, it may have been hidden by the owner and forgotten, as well.  For example, Stone and the Republic were trying to get rid of family mechs - you can't tell me at least one wasn't just hidden and lost after a car accident killed everybody in on the secret.  Lots of ways to explain it.

[SteelRaven]

It's hard to kill anything in the BTU, especially considering Mechs are famous surviving almost anything short of a nuclear bomb. Extinct usually means (at least to me) that the factories are gone along with any mothballed parts after all known unit got shot up on the battlefield. Good news is the BTU seems to be great a fabricating parts so finding a extinct mech in a forgotten bunker only mean some supper extra TLC vs a run to your local Mech-Zome part shop.   

[JPArbiter]

The key to the definition of an extinct design is that there are no facilities in the inner sphere that manufacture chassis and occasionally variant specific parts for the battlemech to be maintained. You might fall out of bed, tumble down the stairs, slip n a bannapeel, step on an errant roller skate, and get struck by a bolt of lightning, wake up and see yourself at the foot of a pristine Pulverizer, but your ability to maintain and repair that mech will be nonexistant. It would be better to the erstwhile mercenary to strip it for parts and sell the husk to a nearby manufacturer for r&d (which may mean target practice for thier own products)

[SpudBot]

I believe there's a specialty market for antique car restorers - both original spares and modification kits to mix old with new.  I always figured the BT universe works somewhat like that - with enough time, money and effort almost any 'mech can be maintained.

Tho I have to say, the Star League section of the '39 readout gets on my nerves sometimes.   Most of them are described as just this side of extinct - held together by spit and wire, etc.  People, if you've given me the stats I have the option of deploying the unit!  :P

[Garrand]

Personally I think some parts in the BTU are pretty standard. Myomers, FREX, I can't see being that different from one mech to another...maybe length & where they attach, but the actual material & the actuators are probably the same. Perhaps techs when repairing just get bundles of the stuff they cut to length before installing. Other things, like certain weapon systems (Magna Medium lasers) are probably common as dirt, and armor is probably cut to fit as well. It's when you get into obscure comms or targeting systems, or even major internal structure rebuilds that you start running into issues IMHO.

Damon.

[The_Livewire]

Personally I think some parts in the BTU are pretty standard. Myomers, FREX, I can't see being that different from one mech to another...maybe length & where they attach, but the actual material & the actuators are probably the same. Perhaps techs when repairing just get bundles of the stuff they cut to length before installing. Other things, like certain weapon systems (Magna Medium lasers) are probably common as dirt, and armor is probably cut to fit as well. It's when you get into obscure comms or targeting systems, or even major internal structure rebuilds that you start running into issues IMHO.

Damon.

I wonder if there are places in the BTU that are like the real world restoration places, but for Battlemechs.  "You want to restore that old Mercury?  Well... we can do that but we're going to have to hand craft the lower leg bone, that's going to cost ya."

[grimlock1]

I wonder if there are places in the BTU that are like the real world restoration places, but for Battlemechs.  "You want to restore that old Mercury?  Well... we can do that but we're going to have to hand craft the lower leg bone, that's going to cost ya."

I thought Astechs in the Succession Wars just called that "Tuesday."

[Requiemking]

Well, there is one really old mech that I know of that went extinct, then was resurrected later on. The Helepolis, a 75 ton Reunification War-era artillery mech. The 1H variant was built with primitive tech, but the 2H and 3H were respectable. However, it is the 4H I really like. Built after the Blakist invasion by Vining Engineering and Salvage Team on Solaris VII, VEST used an Endosteel frame and a 300-rated LFE(which gives it the respectable speed of 64 KPH). It is armed with a Large laser, a Medium laser, an SRM6, two LRM5s, and a Sniper Artillery piece.

[guardiandashi]

IMO "extinct" is a really loose term in battletech.

its not that the unit is non existant, but more that someone made the decision to flag the model as "extinct" typically comstar up until ~3050 or so.

for example it depends on whether you go by the old history, or the newer revised history.

in the old history outside of caches, the starleague mechs from TRO 2750 were all extinct, as in there are no functional thugs flashman and similar in service in the inner sphere (or known space)

in the revised history, those specific models were extinct, but "downgraded versions" built with all 3025 level tech, were still around and even in production.

then there is the whole "claimed extinct" vs actual extinct.  if you read the older references there were literally several hundred LAMS in service up until the last factory in kurita space was captured and destroyed by the clans, and mysteriously they were all extinct ~2-3 years later.

on the other hand you have the clint, its only factory was destroyed in the 1st succession war, only ~1-2000 of them were EVER made, and yet there are enough of them still in service that there was a standard refit package made for them in ~3050-3055 even though there are by my estimation ~50-100 of the clints still in service at all.

so ya "extinct" has more to do with no factory actually making them and their numbers dwindling, to the point that if there are even 5 in service anywhere that's being generous.

[Rainbow 6]

It's also important to look at WHY a design is extinct. In the case of something like the Goliath, the design wasn't made in wide numbers and after the loss of its factory was well on its way to extinction before new versions began production as part of Project Phoenix.

Not sure the Free Worlds League's Goliath factory would agree with that  ;)

[ColBosch]

The Master Unit List uses "extinct" carefully. In an attempt to avoid straitjacketing authors and players, "extinct" on the MUL means "none in production and surviving numbers are statistically irrelevant." Keep in mind that "in production" is a bit vague. For example, while no new frames had been manufactured in centuries, the various TR3025 LAMs didn't go "extinct" until the last parts factory on Irece was destroyed by the Nova Cats.

My rule of thumb - which I now realize I never told anyone, oops - is "IP or 1%." If a given unit is in production, no matter how few are being produced, it's not extinct. If there is a one-in-a-hundred chance that a given 'Mech in any faction is {whatever}, then it's not extinct. For example, the Catapult went through a long period where no new chassis were being made, but you had a good chance of seeing one in a Capellan force; not extinct.

[Crimson Dawn]

IMO "extinct" is a really loose term in battletech.

its not that the unit is non existant, but more that someone made the decision to flag the model as "extinct" typically comstar up until ~3050 or so.

for example it depends on whether you go by the old history, or the newer revised history.

in the old history outside of caches, the starleague mechs from TRO 2750 were all extinct, as in there are no functional thugs flashman and similar in service in the inner sphere (or known space)

in the revised history, those specific models were extinct, but "downgraded versions" built with all 3025 level tech, were still around and even in production.

then there is the whole "claimed extinct" vs actual extinct.  if you read the older references there were literally several hundred LAMS in service up until the last factory in kurita space was captured and destroyed by the clans, and mysteriously they were all extinct ~2-3 years later.

on the other hand you have the clint, its only factory was destroyed in the 1st succession war, only ~1-2000 of them were EVER made, and yet there are enough of them still in service that there was a standard refit package made for them in ~3050-3055 even though there are by my estimation ~50-100 of the clints still in service at all.

so ya "extinct" has more to do with no factory actually making them and their numbers dwindling, to the point that if there are even 5 in service anywhere that's being generous.

What makes it even crazier with the clint is that it is a mech that is hard to repair which makes the fact it lasts so long even more amazing.

[pheonixstorm]

According to the rules, extinct just means it is extremely rare and hard to come by. Could only be one left, could be hundreds.

Extinct really has two ways of looking at it. Literal like the dinosaurs are extinct, or more figurative. Figurative would be as extinct as the old Ford Model T or the old P-51 Mustang. Neither is being produced, but you can still buy them in questionable condition if you look hard enough. The latter is how the rules handle the term, though as TPTB say: It's your game, play it how you want to.