Author Topic: UD-4L "Cheyenne" - the Aliens "dropship" (Read 19717 times)

marauder648 · « **Reply #30 on:** 08 October 2016, 06:42:21 »

Funny you should say this as I think the Horses in Dragon Cat's universe are looking for a mobile mover for infantry or light vehicles...

Quote

What good is it in BT? Well, the capability of carrying and quickly deploying a 50-ton light tank/APC into battle, directly from orbit, sounds good to me. It is not a dogfighter, so speed is not essential to its transport mission. It can stick around to provide some support to its dismounted units or take off again to stand by for a quick extraction or return to base for another unit pickup.

Who could field something like this? I see this more as a merc/corporate forces transport, since it requires tactics uncommon among IS militaries.

Among the clans, we can use the basic concept of the Udie and come up with something truly scary; a dedicated Protomech or BA Transport; instead of a single 50-ton light vehicle bay, we can put in a 50-ton five-proto bay OR a five-point Elemental bay. The reduced weight of clan missile systems can allow for ''real'' weapons to be used (if you want to keep the original flavor) OR other weapon systems might be used instead (like pulse or ER lasers). Conceptually the craft could be visualized as a Star Wars LAAT "gunship"; an effective means of getting small numbers of combat troops on the ground FAST.

I can easily see the Blood Spirits using such a unit to deliver protos in the defense of York, or the GBD military to deliver elementals.

Could you clanify it?

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #31 on:** 08 October 2016, 11:23:13 »

You know marauder the Horses have a specialized mover

From this thread the Pelican which kind of ignores the no use of VTOL movement for aerodyne small craft to get the job done but could simply parachute them in.

http://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/techlab/hell's-horses-designs/

Fireangel · « **Reply #32 on:** 08 October 2016, 12:49:29 »

Quote from: marauder648 on 08 October 2016, 06:42:21

Could you clanify it?

Clarify what, in particular? ???

marauder648 · « **Reply #33 on:** 08 October 2016, 13:44:08 »

I meant Clan-ify this thing :) Turn the Cheyenne into a Clan craft.

Fireangel · « **Reply #34 on:** 08 October 2016, 19:07:09 »

Quote from: marauder648 on 08 October 2016, 13:44:08

I meant Clan-ify this thing :) Turn the Cheyenne into a Clan craft.

Clanify?

How about a Snow Raven version?


                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  Freehand

Class/Model/Name:  Udie Protomech Carrier
Tech:              Clan
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         Tech Manual/Tactical Operations

Mass:              100 tons
Frame:             UD4
Power Plant:       TF-900 200-rated Fusion "Turbine"
Safe Thrust:       4
Maximum Thrust:    6
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:               
    2 MG
    1 Large Pulse Laser
    2 LRM-20
Manufacturer:   Raven Alliance
  Location:     Alliance Aerospace Group (Marantha)
Communications System:  cWTWGA-8
Targeting & Tracking System:  69-4U2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  UD4L
Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  200 Fusion                                                 8.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 4
      Maximum Thrust: 6
Structural Integrity: 10                                                 0.00
Total Heat Sinks:    11 Double (22)                                      1.00
Fuel:                                                                    5.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Standard         (184 total armor pts)                     11.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                  46
   Left/Right Wings:                    46/46
   Aft:                                   46

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 MG (clan)                Nose         4     --     --     --    0      0.50
  100 rd. ammo                                                           0.50
1 Large Pulse Laser (clan) Nose        10     10     10     --   10      6.00
1 LRM-20 (clan)            RW          12     12     12     --    6      5.00
  12 rd. ammo                                                            2.00
1 LRM-20 (clan)            LW          12     12     12     --    6      5.00
  12 rd. ammo                                                            2.00
1 Protomech (5) Bay        body                                         50.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 22    100.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
N/A

The engine was kept the same for economy and maintenance reasons, but instead of a vehicle bay, it can carry a full point of five protomechs, or alternately, a full star of 25 elementals.

For armament, it replaces the Cheyenne's T-bolt for a clan LPL, upgrading the heat dissipation systems to handle the load. The single chin-mount MG is replaced by a twin clan model, and the various missile systems are replaced for a pair of clantech 20-racks of LRMs, with a total of four tons of ammo split among them; it is customary to include Thunder FASCAM or smoke rounds to secure a landing zone for pickup or delivery.

Fireangel · « **Reply #35 on:** 08 October 2016, 20:23:29 »

Or how about this Blood Spirit militia version?


                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  Freehand

Class/Model/Name:  York Milita Transport
Tech:              Clan
Vessel Type:       Aerospace Fighter
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         Tech Manual/Tactical Operations

Mass:              100 tons
Frame:             UD4
Power Plant:       TF-900 200-rated Fusion "Turbine"
Safe Thrust:       4
Maximum Thrust:    6
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:          
    2 MG
    2 Medium Pulse Laser
    2 LRM-15
    2 SRM-4
    1 LRM-5
Manufacturer:   Clan Blood Spirit
  Location:     York Aerospace Fighter Y4 Annex
Communications System:  cWTWGA-4
Targeting & Tracking System:  69-4U2c
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  UD4L
Equipment:                                                              Mass
Power Plant:  200 Fusion                                                 8.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 4
      Maximum Thrust: 6
Structural Integrity: 10                                                 0.00
Total Heat Sinks:    10 Double (20)                                      0.00
Fuel:                                                                    5.00
Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters:                                            3.00
Armor Type:  Standard         (184 total armor pts)                     11.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Nose:                                  46
   Left/Right Wings:                    46/46
   Aft:                                   46

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 MG (clan)                Nose         4     --     --     --    0      0.50
  100 rd. ammo                                                           0.50
2 Med. Pulse Lasers (clan) Nose        14     14     14     --    8      4.00
1 LRM-15 (clan)            RW           9      9      9     --    5      3.50
  16 rd. ammo                                                            2.00
1 SRM-4 (clan)             RW           4     --     --     --    4      1.00
  25 rd. ammo                                                            1.00
1 LRM-15 (clan)            LW           9      9      9     --    5      3.50
  16 rd. ammo                                                            2.00
1 SRM-4 (clan)             LW           4     --     --     --    4      1.00
  25 rd. ammo                                                            1.00
1 LRM-5 (clan)             Aft          3      3      3     --    2      1.00
  24 rd. ammo                                                            1.00
1 Protomech (5) Bay        body                                         50.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                    Heat: 28    100.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
N/A

Designed as an all-purpose transport for use by the Blood Spirit touman; although not an omni design, the weapon systems are semi-modular and can be partially removed to increase cargo capacity and allow the units to be flown by non-warrior castes. In case of planetary invasion, upon the activation of the militia, the units can be armed in less than an hour, converting them to combat transports capable of transporting five protomechs, twenty-five elementals, or a light combat vehicle, depending on the factory configuration. Some are even configured to carry large amounts of unarmored infantry.

When armed, versatility is the key word; missiles comprise the primary armament; two long-range 15-racks, combined with two short-range four-racks are capable of delivering a high volume of specialized munitions for air-to-air combat or ground attack. A twin-mount of chain-guns serves to clear landing zones, while a pair of medium pulse lasers provide reliable, all-purpose firepower. Rounding off the armament, an aft-mounted long-range five-rack serves to dissuade enemy light fighters from attacking from behind out of fear of what veteran pilots inexplicably call "lawn dart checks".

I am Belch II · « **Reply #36 on:** 09 October 2016, 01:01:58 »

IT reminded me of more of a large heavy fighter to a shuttle. Because it could carry a vehicle a shuttle would work better.

Fireangel · « **Reply #37 on:** 09 October 2016, 08:59:48 »

Quote from: I am Belch II on 09 October 2016, 01:01:58

IT reminded me of more of a large heavy fighter to a shuttle. Because it could carry a vehicle a shuttle would work better.

But the Udie can carry a vehicle! (TM pp. 239; fighters can install transport bays.)

An aerodyne shuttle can't VTOL to land on an LZ the size of a dime.
A spheroid shuttle is ill-suited for atmospheric maneuvering.
Shuttles of all sorts waste tonnage in quarters.
Shuttles require small craft bays, which take up 50 more tons than ASF bays.
An orbit-to-surface landing craft does not need a small craft's transit drive.

Unless you have an overwhelming need to transport a heavy vehicle, for this purpose, an ASF is a better choice for the role of the Udie.

Daryk · « **Reply #38 on:** 09 October 2016, 09:14:17 »

Strat Ops does give rules for small craft landing vertically, but they virtually guarantee destruction of the craft.

Xeno426 · « **Reply #39 on:** 10 October 2016, 22:30:22 »

A bit more thread necromancy, but I was trying to recreate the entire USCM arsenal as listed in the Colonial Marine Technical Manual (including the various tanks they have) and I figured I'd search to see if anyone else has done work on this.

It's good to know I'm not alone in being frustrated by the fact that I couldn't make the dropship a proper 35 tons. However, there's a few things here I think are worth mentioning.

When unloaded, the UD-4L is supposed to be able to withstand +6g, so the SI needs to at least hit 6 to represent capabilities, resulting in a 6/9 thrust profile, not 4/6. The description of the GAU-113/B suggests an autocannon of some kind, LAC/2 seems a good fit.

Has anyone stated out the M577 APC versions? Like the M577A1, M577A2, M577A3, M579, or M201 MLRS? Or the tanks and SPG, like the M242A2 SPG, M34A2 Longstreet Light Tank, M22A3 Jackson Medium Tank, or M40 Ridgeway Heavy Tank?

The Technical Manual also mentions a UD-24 dropship that's supposed to enter service sometime in the 2180s (ALIENS takes place in the 2170s) with a 70,000 kg lift capacity. There's also mention early in chapter 3 of the AD-19C/D Bearcat and AD-17A Cougar strikeships, UD-22 Navajo gunship, and the CS-14 Briareos heavy lift shuttle; the shuttle is probably how the really heavy USCM equipment like the M40 Ridgeway gets planetside.

Fireangel · « **Reply #40 on:** 11 October 2016, 07:22:10 »

Quote from: Xeno426 on 10 October 2016, 22:30:22

When unloaded, the UD-4L is supposed to be able to withstand +6g, so the SI needs to at least hit 6 to represent capabilities, resulting in a 6/9 thrust profile, not 4/6.

My version has an SI of 10. You forget that a fighter's SI equals the fighter's safe thrust rating OR 10% of the fighter's tonnage, whichever is higher (TM pp. 187).

I'll also remind you that 1g = 2 thrust, so if you want the design to be able to withstand 6g's, it would have to have a thrust rating of 12/18.

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The description of the GAU-113/B suggests an autocannon of some kind, LAC/2 seems a good fit.

Unfortunately, the AC/2 (or even a LAC/2) weighs too much for the design. Keep in mind that the main purpose of the chin mount is to clear the LZ, not engage is extreme long range combat. IMHO, the MG is a much better fit.

BTW> Welcome to the forums!

Xeno426 · « **Reply #41 on:** 12 October 2016, 17:03:56 »

Guess I misread the parts on SI and g (or didn't read carefully enough, both are equally possible). Damn, can't even get 8/12 on such a heavy craft.

Wouldn't OS or I-OS SRMs be a better representation of those systems? Too bad there's no OS Thunderbolt systems; that would work for them as well.

It's rather silly and annoying that vehicle bays come in only two sizes; we should be able to designate the size of them, so a 20 ton bay can hold up to a 20 ton vehicle.

For the M577 APC, what weapons would you consider to be good equivalents to the Boyars PARS-150, Republic Dynamics M2025, 20 MeV turbo-alternator powered charged particle beam cannons (PBC), and 20mm quad system mounted (M579 APC)? I've tentatively used AP Gauss for the PARS-150, ERML for the M2025, and a single LPPC for the PBCs.

Daryk · « **Reply #42 on:** 12 October 2016, 18:39:13 »

That idea has been discussed before: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=50414.0

Fireangel · « **Reply #43 on:** 12 October 2016, 21:42:21 »

Quote from: Xeno426 on 12 October 2016, 17:03:56

For the M577 APC, what weapons would you consider to be good equivalents to the Boyars PARS-150, Republic Dynamics M2025, 20 MeV turbo-alternator powered charged particle beam cannons (PBC), and 20mm quad system mounted (M579 APC)? I've tentatively used AP Gauss for the PARS-150, ERML for the M2025, and a single LPPC for the PBCs.

Assuming you want to make a 30+ ton version of the 14.5 ton M577 APC, the 20mm Gats are MGs (canon fluff supports this). The plasma cannon could be represented by Med. Lasers, or by Flamers, or (if you feel really adventurous) an LPPC. The problem is that any of these weapons requires either a fusion engine (the "real" M577 has a multi-fuel gas turbine), OR it will need to pack power amps and heat sinks.

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Wouldn't OS or I-OS SRMs be a better representation of those systems?

Yes and no. The problem is that in BT, missile systems are extremely weak on a per-missile basis, unlike other games, where individual missiles can be game-breakers (Palladium, I'm looking at you!).

Since the design is intended for use in the BT universe, I decided to give real functionality to the weapons systems, rather than attempt to ape them in a manner that renders the whole design as a less-than-useful combat unit.

Quote

Too bad there's no OS Thunderbolt systems; that would work for them as well.

Well, there is the Thunderbolt Classic^tm from the Unbound module; 1 ton, 10 damage, 10 heat, range of an AC/10; it's an OS system that is considered pretty cheesy by most players, particularly in massed banks.

Don't forget that as an aerospace fighter, the Udie can carry external ordnance, including rocket pods, air-to-air missiles, Arrow IV ATGMs, and even nukes, so they can pack enough heat to scrub any LZ. 8)

Xeno426 · « **Reply #44 on:** 13 October 2016, 23:42:29 »

Quote from: Fireangel on 12 October 2016, 21:42:21

Assuming you want to make a 30+ ton version of the 14.5 ton M577 APC, the 20mm Gats are MGs (canon fluff supports this). The plasma cannon could be represented by Med. Lasers, or by Flamers, or (if you feel really adventurous) an LPPC. The problem is that any of these weapons requires either a fusion engine (the "real" M577 has a multi-fuel gas turbine), OR it will need to pack power amps and heat sinks.

Well, by using a light fusion engine and FF armor, I was able to make it 15 tons. Since it held two squads (twelve men) I made it a 1.5 ton infantry compartment. Managed to keep the speed at 150 km/h max as well.

Quote from: Fireangel on 12 October 2016, 21:42:21

Don't forget that as an aerospace fighter, the Udie can carry external ordnance, including rocket pods, air-to-air missiles, Arrow IV ATGMs, and even nukes, so they can pack enough heat to scrub any LZ. 8)

True, in which case some of those rocket pods you have as part of the base configuration could be left to be rocket launcher pods attached to the hardpoints.

Fireangel · « **Reply #45 on:** 14 October 2016, 08:49:48 »

Quote from: Xeno426 on 13 October 2016, 23:42:29

Well, by using a light fusion engine and FF armor, I was able to make it 15 tons. Since it held two squads (twelve men) I made it a 1.5 ton infantry compartment. Managed to keep the speed at 150 km/h max as well.

But then you are making an extremely expensive APC that dies about as quickly as the stock 10-ton models (because it attracts more enemy fire due to its heavy armament).

Furthermore, most of the capacity of the light bay is simply wasted; you might be able to create a first-rate 40-50 ton tank/IFV with high mobility, heavy weapons, significant armor, and 2-6 tons of infantry capacity. (As an aside, a 4-ton compartment can carry a full-on foot or jump platoon, half of a motorized platoon [two squads], four battlearmor troopers, or even sixteen PA(L) troopers [optional rule].)

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True, in which case some of those rocket pods you have as part of the base configuration could be left to be rocket launcher pods attached to the hardpoints.

The problem is that this negatively impacts the Udie's thrust, and when all you have to work with is 4/6, you need to be very selective.

But yeah, sure; sacrificing tonnage from the internal launchers, you could upgrade the engine to 5/8 in order to accommodate the external ordnance and still have viable thrust. Upgrading the engine to light or XL might work to free the tonnage needed, but I'm not sure if the increase in cost is viable.

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #46 on:** 12 January 2017, 21:39:55 »

Faffing around a bit...

Quote

Class/Model/Name: UD4L Cheyenne Equipment: Mass Tonnage: 55.00 Power Plant: 165 Fusion 6.00 Thrust: Safe Thrust: 5 Maximum Thrust: 8 Structural Integrity: 5 0.00 Total Heat Sinks: 12 Single 2.00 Fuel: 5.00 Cockpit & Attitude Thrusters: 3.00 Armor Type: Standard (184 total armor pts) 6.50 Standard Scale Armor Pts Location: L / R Nose: 32 Left/Right Wings: 26/26 Aft: 20 Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2 Light Machine Gun Nose 2 -- -- -- 0 1.00 Thunderbolt-5 RW 5 5 5 -- 3 3.00 Thunderbolt-5 RW 5 5 5 -- 3 3.00 Thunderbolt-5 LW 5 5 5 -- 3 3.00 Thunderbolt-5 LW 5 5 5 -- 3 3.00 @Thunderbolt-5 (48) Body 4.00 @Light Machine Gun (50) Body 0.50 1 Light Vehicle Bay Body 15.00

Why a 15 ton bay? Well, it does need to carry an M577 APC.

Fireangel · « **Reply #47 on:** 13 January 2017, 11:36:47 »

Aside from the non-canon 15-ton bay (not really an issue), I find that it carries too much ammo for the t-bolts; you can get away with that much ammo when using LRMs because of alternate ammo types, but for t-bolts, it is just wasted tonnage.

Daryk · « **Reply #48 on:** 13 January 2017, 12:54:34 »

For landing craft, I'd prefer rocket launchers. They're good enough to clear an LZ, but not good enough to let the pilot think he's driving a gun ship.

I am Belch II · « **Reply #49 on:** 13 January 2017, 16:10:21 »

Rockets or One Shot SRM's would work too. Lots of damage quick then land.

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #50 on:** 13 January 2017, 21:24:57 »

Quote from: Fireangel on 13 January 2017, 11:36:47

Aside from the non-canon 15-ton bay (not really an issue), I find that it carries too much ammo for the t-bolts; you can get away with that much ammo when using LRMs because of alternate ammo types, but for t-bolts, it is just wasted tonnage.

Well, the M577 is 14.5 tons in the Aliens setting; I went with 15 tons to match the one I built. I suppose it should just be a cargo bay, but meh. As far as the Tbolts, they're supposed to be all the missiles - each 16 pack in the large pods as well as the six or seven stored within the smaller pylons. There's not quite 48 missiles on the DropShip, but I figured I'd take a swing and see how it looked.

Won't deny RL floods and/or LRMs are better suppressive weapons.

Fireangel · « **Reply #51 on:** 14 January 2017, 10:29:45 »

Quote from: ANS Kamas P81 on 13 January 2017, 21:24:57

Well, the M577 is 14.5 tons in the Aliens setting; I went with 15 tons to match the one I built. I suppose it should just be a cargo bay, but meh. As far as the Tbolts, they're supposed to be all the missiles - each 16 pack in the large pods as well as the six or seven stored within the smaller pylons. There's not quite 48 missiles on the DropShip, but I figured I'd take a swing and see how it looked.

Won't deny RL floods and/or LRMs are better suppressive weapons.

I say it is not really an issue because we are already looking at alternative methods of delivering combat units, but if we are looking at official rules, a 15-ton space is a cargo bay that requires additional time to unload.

I created the “original” version of the BT Udie, I chose RLs not only because they fit the prototype, but because of the reason you cite: they are intended for clearing LZs, with a secondary function of air support.