Author Topic: Ideal War - Review and Questions  (Read 6802 times)

Dragon Cat

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Ideal War - Review and Questions
« on: 21 March 2013, 03:32:16 »
A couple of months ago I came across quite a few BattleTech novels included them was the Novel Ideal War by Christopher Kubasik.  I've now completed it.  I must admit I've never been a Free Worlds League, Thomas Marik or Word of Blake fan... this book does nothing to turn me into one.

Although I think Thomas' creation of the Knights of the Inner Sphere is interesting, and the Paul Masters character is a decent one the book seems rushed in parts.  I found it quite an enjoyable read overall but the ending is so condensed and rushed it sorta leaves the reader feeling like you've just got into the real story and then its over...

If the story had focused on the Knights of the Inner Sphere - maybe the whole regiment went - and not just Paul Masters then it would have maybe felt a little more like complete story.  It feels like its trying to be a Grey Death Legion (one warrior against a world) but without the mercenaries, a clear enemy or real direction.  It sometimes seems that its just muddling along from one problem to the next.

Other than that there are questions thrown up by the book that looking at BattleTech history you have to wonder how things ever got to where they were.

Thomas "Halas" Marik despite being sympathetic to the Word of Blake and the schism appears to hold very little stock in the Word of Blake faction and in many respects disdain.  The only real reason he gave them shelter was because of Precentor Blaine - although likely also due to Thomas true history - being a ROM agent

The Word of Blake training, tactics and beliefs are verging on barbarism at every turn down to allowing a pilot with mental health problems run amok in a Hatchetman.  The faction is totally out of control even then, although I had the Liberation of Terra campaign book (WoB/ComStar battle) I must admit this was my first time properly seeing the early Word of Blake (fiction really puts a face to them) before they were a part of ComStar that ran off and hid in the FWL before returning to Terra before starting a little war known as the Jihad.  Now seeing them this early I'm not half surprised about some of the things that happened in the Jihad.

And the book leaves me with tons of questions really:

1) Sir Paul Masters was Count of Gibson - after seeing how the Word of Blake trained and fought why did he ever let them keep their weapons on his new world?  Why did Thomas Marik for that matter?

They may have sworn fealty to him but they cared not at all for the people of the world or the honourable combat Thomas and Paul were seeking.

2) What happened to Sir Paul Masters?  I know he went on Task Force Serpent and became Ambassador to the Clans.  But what happened to him in the Jihad?  Did he die before then?  Or was he lost to the Clans when the Homeworlds went dark?  Why did the Count of Gibson abandon his world for so long?

Obviously by not dealing with the Word of Blake that's one of the reasons they grew as powerful as they did and how Apolloyn eventually got put in charge by the puppet government on Atreus.
« Last Edit: 21 March 2013, 03:34:52 by Dragon Cat »
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Atlas3060

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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #1 on: 21 March 2013, 09:05:14 »
1) Sir Paul Masters was Count of Gibson - after seeing how the Word of Blake trained and fought why did he ever let them keep their weapons on his new world?  Why did Thomas Marik for that matter?
I'll have to do more research to delve into it, but here's my gut answer for this question.
At the time Thomas 'Halas' probably knew how dangerous the Wobbies are based on his true history.
If he or Sir Masters were to move against them in Gibson publically who knows what sort of problems they would inflict on the FWL?
At least in Gibson they have them somewhere visible. It probably wasn't the most ideal situation, but considering the time it probably was the only way to keep damages to a minimal.
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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #2 on: 21 March 2013, 10:04:05 »
The Word of Blake had an important bit of blackmail on Thomas "Marik".
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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #3 on: 22 March 2013, 00:20:00 »

2) What happened to Sir Paul Masters?  I know he went on Task Force Serpent and became Ambassador to the Clans.  But what happened to him in the Jihad?  Did he die before then?  Or was he lost to the Clans when the Homeworlds went dark?  Why did the Count of Gibson abandon his world for so long?

This has been bothering me for awhile. Did he make it back from Huntress? Or did he die out there? The Knights were all gassed by the Wob during the fight for the League's capital. Wonder if he died with them?
I don't own the turning point book so I don't know too much about that battle.

Ideal War often gets slammed for being "Vietnam with Battlemechs". Which doesn't bother me at all. I enjoy running insurgency and counter insurgency scenarios in Battletech.

The training methods of the Word of Blake troops and the local mercs, etc is like a particularly twisted version of regular training and the author used it to take a swipe at the US military's training methods.
I always thought the clearly mentally ill mechwarrior being allowed free reign was a little odd. Maybe he just had a really good bodycount...

Overall, I enjoyed Ideal War. It was a bit of a flawed masterpiece and could have been a lot better. The final battle was a bit of an anti-climax and i kinda hated the just over the top idealism of Thomas and Paul Masters but, i guess that's the whole premise of the Knights, etc.

I did enjoy the rebels unleashing nukes on the battlefield as their "contribution", that realy showed the true horror of the dirty little conflict that was going on on Gibson.
Doubly good - my copy is illustrated with some pretty damn fine pics!


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Dragon Cat

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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #4 on: 22 March 2013, 13:10:22 »

Ideal War often gets slammed for being "Vietnam with Battlemechs". Which doesn't bother me at all. I enjoy running insurgency and counter insurgency scenarios in Battletech.


Doubly good - my copy is illustrated with some pretty damn fine pics!

Never actually thought of it that way although I do see the similarities that could draw comparisons

As is mine makes these books I got even better :)
My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,79196.0.html - Part 3

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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #5 on: 03 April 2013, 17:41:08 »
Ideal War often gets slammed for being "Vietnam with Battlemechs". Which doesn't bother me at all. I enjoy running insurgency and counter insurgency scenarios in Battletech.

Those people mustn't have read "Dagger Point"  ::) "Bit of a flawed masterpiece" is pretty fair - some good details under some dross.
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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #6 on: 03 April 2013, 20:04:56 »
In my personal opinion Ideal War is a much better written book than Dagger Point. The concept of Dagger Point is probably a better one and one I enjoy much more (I've lost count of how many Liao backed and funded insurgencies i've played over the years...) but the writing falls pretty flat.

The idea of an insurgency fighting the Word of Blake with various factions within the League meddling on either sides is a pretty good one.
Had they just cut the Knights out of it, Ideal War might have been even better


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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #7 on: 12 May 2013, 21:29:40 »
This is one of the better BattleTech novels.  Mine is a minority opinion.
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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #8 on: 10 June 2013, 10:12:11 »
Read it ages ago, and was rather underwhelmed by it.  Tried reading it again earlier this year, and couldn't muster up the interest to finish it.  Even with the FWL being a favored faction of mine, I don't care for it.  It's better that Star Lord and DRT, but not by much in my opinion.  Vietnam with mechs is exactly what I thought of when I read it, and this isn't helped by the authors notes.  It seemed to me that he was using the book to work out issues he had in Vietnam, as well as to take a swipe at the military, not to try and tell a good BT story.  I like insurgency and rebellion stories in general, but this was a political statement book, not BT insurgency.  There are so many ways a insurgency can be written - there was no need to make it Vietnam with a couple minor edits.
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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #9 on: 12 March 2014, 23:39:42 »
Ideal war and Double Blind were two novels i frequently suggested for reading to people wanting to learn more about the WoB (at least, prior to the jihad kicking off in our game.) which was a big thing when the MWDA game came out and people starting wondering about the WoB jihad in its background. between the two of them, you really get an insight into the WoB's beliefs, as well as the various factions within the Word and the internal politics.. as well as how ruthless the WoB could get.

sadly, both are novels that are not held in very high regard, due to how people view certain elements in their story.

Frabby

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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #10 on: 13 March 2014, 01:44:33 »
Ideal War may not be the best BT book out there, but it isn't nearly as bad as it's sometimes made out to be.
Yes, it's Vietnam in Spaaace straight - even says so in the foreword. No surprises here. And yes, the author and factchecking team somehow overlooked that the "backwater" world of Gibson is one of the FWL's 'Mech production sites... but you can handwave that by assuming the 'Mech production facilities are all in the capital city, which is pretty much a world of its own, and the rest of the planet is unimportant.

When read on its own I'd say it is an ok novel. It gets a notch better when seen in context of what came much later:
I thought the novel was great in showing how the Word of Blake became the murderous villains from the Jihad era. At this point in the timeline, they're a inhomogenous mix of ComStar dropouts lacking a unified agenda, with many different subfactions and sect leaders. All the three-dimensionality and undercurrents are here that the later WoB was sometimes portrayed as lacking, and under close scrutiny this novel reveals how things started to go wrong.

Thomas "Halas" Marik despite being sympathetic to the Word of Blake and the schism appears to hold very little stock in the Word of Blake faction and in many respects disdain.  The only real reason he gave them shelter was because of Precentor Blaine - although likely also due to Thomas true history - being a ROM agent

The Word of Blake training, tactics and beliefs are verging on barbarism at every turn down to allowing a pilot with mental health problems run amok in a Hatchetman.  The faction is totally out of control even then, although I had the Liberation of Terra campaign book (WoB/ComStar battle) I must admit this was my first time properly seeing the early Word of Blake (fiction really puts a face to them) before they were a part of ComStar that ran off and hid in the FWL before returning to Terra before starting a little war known as the Jihad.  Now seeing them this early I'm not half surprised about some of the things that happened in the Jihad.
I'd say the key issue here is that there is no unified WoB faction. The WoB people on Gibson ("tens of thousands of religious zealots") are several distinct groups of people who have turned away from ComStar for very different reasons:
- You've got religious zealots following the Word of Blake religion under Blane (who are politically moderate);
- you have shell-shocked veterans from Tukayyid and Operation Scorpion who couldn't cope with the changes to the ComStar they bled for;
- you have ROM elements more interested in their own power politics than serving ComStar;
- you have a few individual alpha specimen with their personality cults such as Aziz, Arian or Starling;
- and any number of additional subfactions including the cabal involving The Hidden Worlds, and all that.
These are all lumped together under the "Word of Blake" label although at this point they are more factionalized than the FWL or the Fire Mandrills. Pretty much the only thing they have in common is that they turned their back on ComStar.

At this point, my take on things is that each of those subsects is too small and unorganized to survive on its own, hence they form a loose coalition (with all the dagger-in-the-back politics we see in this book) to survive, by means of "Thomas Marik" who is friendly to them and offers asylum in the FWL for all of them together. In return he is declared their Primus in Exile, which may have been part of the real Thomas Marik's plan to ascertain total control.

Blane, in this book, is portrayed in a positive light and disapproves of the atrocities committed on Gibson about which he was apparently kept in the dark by those factions who committed them. He goes to Atreus to ask "Thomas Marik" for help.
At this point things get interesting: Did Blane know about the Doppelganger? And if so, did he know that the Doppelganger was pretty much his own man by this time, and didn't drink The Master's Kool Aid anymore? Or did he genuinely think he was talking to Primus-in-Exile Thomas Marik?
Whatever the answer (which we may never get), the moderate Blane and the equally moderate Doppelganger sense that something is wrong and send Paul Masters to evaluate. They actually try to solve the problem, though their efforts fall tragically short.

1) Sir Paul Masters was Count of Gibson - after seeing how the Word of Blake trained and fought why did he ever let them keep their weapons on his new world?  Why did Thomas Marik for that matter?

They may have sworn fealty to him but they cared not at all for the people of the world or the honourable combat Thomas and Paul were seeking.
Paul Masters was an outsider and percieved as something of an arbitrator in the conflict which was chiefly engineered by Regulus. The Word of Blake were not the guilty party, they were just the catalyst that made the ongoing guerilla war spin out of control; and being composed of shell-shocked ComGuard veterans, the WoB had the means and the inclination to shoot back in earnest, which made years of low-level guerilla warfare among the Gibson natives escalate and spin out of control within a year or two.
Masters uncovered the Regulan involvemet and gave the Regulans (their deniable "mercenary" assets under Col. Roush, to be precise) a slap on the wrists; we can assume this ended Regulus fueling the civil war fires on Gibson fortwith.
Word of Blake, at this point, had only been defending themselves, even though that had fanned the flames. They were reminded that they were guests on Gibson, not rulers, and with Masters installed as the new Count, nobody thought they had to be disarmed.

2) What happened to Sir Paul Masters?  I know he went on Task Force Serpent and became Ambassador to the Clans.  But what happened to him in the Jihad?  Did he die before then?  Or was he lost to the Clans when the Homeworlds went dark?  Why did the Count of Gibson abandon his world for so long?
He is referred to as the "late Paul Masters" somehwere in the Jihad sourcebooks; I think it was Apollyon who said that. For all we know, Masters died though the circumstances are unknown at this point. Personally, I can easily imagine Masters died in a trial that some Clan warrior declared over some trivial matter.

Obviously by not dealing with the Word of Blake that's one of the reasons they grew as powerful as they did and how Apolloyn eventually got put in charge by the puppet government on Atreus.
Even more so, the fighting on Gibson brought the militant and ruthless elements to the fore while subduing the moderates. The guerilla war on Gibson is what forged the Word of Blake into the largely unified power it became and brought the killers to the fore. I reckon there are plenty of real-world analogies here, but I don't want to violate the forum rules.
Masters and the Doppelganger underestimated the Word of Blake; they never had a chance of reigning them in by this point in time. The moderates had been silenced, the WoB had learned the lesson that they had to fight their enemies with fire. And so they did.


Edit: Typos & copyedits
« Last Edit: 13 March 2014, 01:56:41 by Frabby »
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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #11 on: 24 March 2014, 11:52:05 »
If you are looking for insurgency campaign ideas, the part of the novel with The Joker (The nameless assassin that killed Melissa) leading an insurgency campaign will give you ideas also.

I liked Ideal War...Thought it was a more gritty/'realistic' view of the universe.  The WoB were desperate back then and I could see them keeping mechwarriors with mental issues in the cockpit as long as they could contribute and be somewhat controlled.

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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #12 on: 26 March 2014, 12:51:19 »
If you are looking for insurgency campaign ideas, the part of the novel with The Joker (The nameless assassin that killed Melissa) leading an insurgency campaign will give you ideas also.
that was from Bred for War.. different novel.

as for the WOB on gibson.. the reason they weren't disarmed is probably complex. ultimately it asn't the WoB weapons that caused the problems they had, it was their idiotic doctrine of just killing, counting, then killing more.. which to be fair, was fairly idiotic when we did it in vietnam as well. presumably Master's was able to shift them over to a more restrained, effective doctrine for dealing with any remaining insurgents. it is also questionable whether the forces on Gibson kept their weapons at the time.. it may have been that the weapons and soldiers the WoB stockpiled on Gibson for that conflict were removed/reduced.. but likely they'd have just been shifted to units in more important spots. after all, the WoB had quite a few units being built at the time. by the time the Jihad kicked off, presumably the FWL garrison was subsumed by the WoB or was easily nuetralized, and the WoB took over the world more completely.

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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #13 on: 30 March 2014, 18:00:01 »
I always figured Thomas Halas had given Blaine asylum and what was supposed to be a small fraction of WoB. He got more than he bargained for and got the one person he didn't want. The real Thomas Marik. The events on Gibson spiraled out of hand too quickly for the FWL to adapt to and before the Thomas Halas could, events went into a Planetary Civil War, Nuclear, and showed Regulas playing games. For some reason I like to think the real Thomas Marik hadn't made his way to Gibson until sometime after the events of the novel and Thomas Halas was just dealing with Blaine and Demona Aziz, and to a lesser extent Trent Arian. People he could deal with.
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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #14 on: 19 September 2014, 21:52:38 »
Hi folks,I just thought I'd add my ten cents here on "ideal war" instead of starting a new thread and repeating much of the discussion. The only thing I felt that hasn't been mentioned about this one, and an element for me that really made this book was the strong hint of fairy tale. Or perhaps I might more specifically say of knights tales.

More than alluded to in the opening of the book with Malloy's "Le Mort d'Arthur" the familiar trope of a questing knight is played out in a battletech setting with surprising ease. The part of the traditional faery queen is played by the countess Dystar including the common sexual overtones (think Sir Gallahad in the castle Anthrax) Sir Masters embarks on the classic journey from the castle of his liege through some magic portal (FTL to Gibson) to a magical realm (the wondrous city of Portent, complete with its own wondrous castle) where the rules of behaviour and conflict as he knows them are all skewed.(a savage guerrilla war) He must call upon his every knightly virtue to see him through this trial and ultimately resist all temptations to be less than a knight to finally win the day, receive the props and establish a rule of justice and nobility in the name of his lord and his knightly order.

I really loved this aspect of Ideal War, I think it was a very carefully balanced approach which didn't go too far and alienate readers who just wanted a straight up battletech story. There might have been a few more nods to the whole Arthurian tradition along the way just for kicks but overall the book didn't suffer too much for lack of them.

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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #15 on: 20 September 2014, 14:51:08 »
My only complaint, really, in this book is how short it was. It missed about a hundred pages more I believe, especially when he get captured and the final battle.

It was stated before but I found the way the WoB waged their war to be appalling yet morbidly interesting. I'm too young and Canadian to have known Vietnam through anything else than books and movies but I found it translated well to a Battletech setting.

I really enjoyed this book, especially the appearance of the Knights even if you barely see them in this book.
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Re: Ideal War - Review and Questions
« Reply #16 on: 21 September 2014, 12:11:24 »
This is one of my favorite Battletech reads but paradoxically one of my most frustrating as the book needed much more to take it to a deeper level of understanding this genre.

Standing alone, if read by someone having no idea of the rich fiction of this game, he would likely come out with a feeling of reading something mildly entertaining; more akin to an adventure guide only with a more superior fiction in the gloss. Please don't misunderstand me, that wasn't a derogatory comment. The book is fine by itself and I found it a very fun read with much better focus on human psychology and asymmetric warfare. It felt more real to me and less four color comic than many other books of this sort and I really enjoyed that breath of fresh air.

To me, having enjoyed this genre for so long, I've learned a great deal of its intricate web of fiction which allowed me to "suspect" greater detail from this book may have been implied or desired to be included. Christopher Kubasik should have taken a little more time and the publishers allowed more pages, maybe another book or two, to add more depth which would have taken Idea War from a good standalone story to one of the must read corner stones of the Battletech universes fiction. 

Thus my paradox, I loved the book but am found wanting that it should have been much, much more.

If I could have my way, I'd convince Chris that there was room between his lines to easily weave another book or two around this event that would make Ideal War shine a lot more and help fans understand the Blakest Jihad better as well.

 

 

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