Author Topic: How have the novels had an impact on your view of Successor States (Read 5650 times)

Minemech · « **on:** 24 June 2017, 11:48:29 »

The novels may play a major role in reader's views of various states. This is not true of all players, some just choosing a faction they like, but key novels like Heir to the Dragon, and Surrender Your Dreams have shaped people's views of various factions quite differently than narrative of the greater universe would have directed them towards. How have various novels impacted your view on a given faction? Are there any particular moments that have been pivotal in otherwise irrelevant novels?

YingJanshi · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 June 2017, 12:10:49 »

Well, for me, reading the Capellan Solution duology is what swayed me to become a Capellan. They were the first book that I read that showed Capellans as anything more than Snidely Whiplash clones.

trboturtle · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 June 2017, 13:45:47 »

The fun thing about writing stories about the Successor States in no faction is 100% black or 100% white. They are all shades of gray, even the Word of Blake. It is vital as a writer is to have main characters the reader can find sympathy for or the story doesn't work for Battletech. I have to take the characters to somewhere beyond the stereotype while keeping them true to their culture. Characters have to be complex because real people are complex.

One of my favorite characters I've written is Precentor Gazael. He's a Manei Dominiani, committed to his cause and his Master, but he does things you wouldn't expect from someone like him. His actions and words show a deeper character than the expected cybernetic killing machine. I've written two stories about him and hope to write more in the future.

That's what makes Battletech unique, as there is no "wrong" side to back. It is a complex, detailed universe that any fan can choose the one (or several) factions they like the most. As a writer, I write the stories when and where they take me.

Craig

Kidd · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 June 2017, 13:56:19 »

Reading Victor Milan's works started me on my unwilling way to becoming a Drac player.

I can't offhand recall any of the classic novels which describe life for people of the Great Houses lower down the food chain than nobility, barring a couple set in the Periphery. Or at least almost none have made any real impression other than "generic scifi city setting". So that's a problem for me.

Iron Mongoose · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 June 2017, 16:36:28 »

I think one of the key lessons of the novels is that every faction is more than just any one or any group of cheractors. So, while the novels have absolutly shaped my view of Steiner-Davion siblings, or of Warrior House Hiritsu, or of the ELH or Dragoons, I try not to let that shape my view of any faction as a whole.

Now, I'll grant that a big part of this is that I've gravatated twards under covered factions like the FWL. Again, there my greatest take away from the novels is that anything is possible, that each faction has a relititively large tent with a diverse croud under it. So I don't feel constrained to model my play after what I saw in Star Lord or Ideal War or what have you (unless I'm being a Knight of the Inner Sphere, I suppose, but I don't do that often).

I think the one key exception is the Jaguars. They were my first love, and their depection in the Pardoe books absolutly set a view of the 'ideal' Jaguar in my mind, even though we usually see flawed or outlier charactors in these books. Had I been older, perhaps I might have seen that more, but as a youth, it made a lasting impression.

ajcbm · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 June 2017, 09:26:49 »

Read "Dark Age Turning Points: Liao" and "By Temptations and By War" by Loren L. Coleman to understand how POV and Spin changes everything.

Demon55 · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 June 2017, 16:38:47 »

The Cappellan Solution series made me kind of like House Liao.

Death by Lasers · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 June 2017, 18:54:10 »

Binding Forces by Loren Coleman formed my view of the Cappellan Confederation. The novel gave me a more nuanced view of a faction that could have easily come off as mustache twirling villains if not for Coleman's input. I'm not a Cappellan player per say, more Omni-Factional with a special emphasis on Steiner, the Jade Falcons, and the Word of Blake, but more than any other faction my view of the Cappellans was formed by Coleman's novels starting with Binding Forces.

While not technically factions certain books have also had a great impact on creating the setting for me. While the Sourcebooks are critical to building a fictional worlds only the novels can give you the feeling of living in those worlds. For me Decision at Thunder Rift set the tone for the IS and the Jade Phoenix Trilogy formed my view of the Clans.

Nav_Alpha · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 June 2017, 21:21:52 »

They made me ignore House Marik and the FWL for YEARS. Seriously, they get what two books? Mostly concerned with the Knights of the Inner Sphere, which just didn't move me.
All the references to the FWL was how ineffective it is, how their military was fractured, etc. and most of the plot lines seem to revolve around Tom Marik trying to renege on marrying hia daughter to Sunny Boy.

It wasn't until the Jihad source books came out that it's Byzantine politics and the actual REASONS it's so fractured came through. At least for me anyway.

Now I love the FWL and it's wacky, feuding family craziness

ds9guy · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 July 2017, 18:01:58 »

I have found that the novels have given me an appreciation for each of the Successor States.
The only exception thus far is the Capellans who I just don't understand yet. All the other Houses, the more I read the more interesting they become.

Doom · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 July 2017, 19:15:41 »

The books ensured I really dislike the CapCon, or at least House Liao (since I don't really have a problem with the Centrellas, though their taste in men is clearly suspect).

Nav_Alpha · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 July 2017, 19:34:52 »

For the early books the Cappies were just moustache twirling nutbags

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 July 2017, 20:51:24 »

What novels are best to get a feel of the LC? Not so much "the leadership" but more of a local view of things?

Feenix74 · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 July 2017, 21:09:29 »

Reposting after the BT Forum's Grey Monday impression:

The first BT novels I read 25 years ago were the Jade Phoenix Trilogy. These books have had absolutely no impact on my view of the stravag Successor States or the freebirth surats that populate them. Quiaff?

Scotty · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 July 2017, 21:32:51 »

I play Marik, so the answer to the OP's question is "not much", until we get a book worth reading (Dark Age material notwithstanding, since I haven't been able to find a copy of the book involving the reformation of the FWL yet).

Kidd · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 July 2017, 22:07:44 »

Repost: I liked the James Bond-like Ghost Knight in Dark Age and the first few MWDA novels with glimpses of the lives of ordinary people impacted by the Blackout.

Nav_Alpha · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 July 2017, 23:51:41 »

Quote from: Kidd on 13 July 2017, 22:07:44

Repost: I liked the James Bond-like Ghost Knight in Dark Age and the first few MWDA novels with glimpses of the lives of ordinary people impacted by the Blackout.

Same. Call to Arms was an excellent read. And even things like Blood Avatar were rather good for showing a side of the universe really seen: farmers, townsfolk and cops trying to get on with their lives in an unfriendly world.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 July 2017, 13:04:59 »

Scotty, most of that whole storyline can be had on Kindle format- its where I have it with Bonfire and I read it on occasion.

For me, my entry into the game was MW2's Gold or Collector Edition, which had original MW2 and GBL games . . . and Pardoe's guide book. It introduced me to each Clan and the setting, along with the fluff for each scenario in the game. Years later when I found the BoK's first book sitting in a office supply store(?) I picked it up and then plunged into the novels.

Baldur Mekorig · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 July 2017, 14:38:38 »

My first contact with Battletech were the 1994 cartoon and the spanish translation of The Warrior Triology. Did they impact my view of the Succesor States? Probably. Since then, for me, the DC were a bunch of totallitaristic weebos, the CC were the worst mix of the Soviet Union with comunist China, the Lyran Commonweatlh made me remember my country´s military history a bit too much with all those social generals, the Free World League was non-existant, and finally the Federated Suns looked like a bunch of Mary Sues. I blame Stackpole on that. Nontheless it was a fun read. I have to admit that the Blood of Kerensky triology made me despise the Invading Clans (expect for the Ghost Bears). I had little experience with the rest of the novels (some of the Exodus Roads ones and the odd Mechwarrior one, with the Founding of the Clans beign nice, until i got to read the Dark Age ones. The first were horrible, but Surrender your Dreams and To Ride the Chimera made me see the FWL in a more sympathetic way, and to despise the RoTS a lot.

Wrangler · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 July 2017, 14:44:50 »

Having read the entire series (Battletech MainLine, MechWarrior (non-MWDA) & MWDA) I find the novels gave me more insight into the flow of the cultures and how people are. It's helpful if I end up in a RPG set in the Battletech Universe, which I've had pleasure of doing a couple of times for year long campaigns. Fun stuff.
Novels keep me connected to the universe, I do like earlier novels with the Pulp-Scifi angle verses the gritty unforgiving later books that have come up.

Nav_Alpha · « **Reply #20 on:** 15 July 2017, 01:01:37 »

Quote from: Wrangler on 14 July 2017, 14:44:50

Having read the entire series (Battletech MainLine, MechWarrior (non-MWDA) & MWDA) I find the novels gave me more insight into the flow of the cultures and how people are. It's helpful if I end up in a RPG set in the Battletech Universe, which I've had pleasure of doing a couple of times for year long campaigns. Fun stuff.
Novels keep me connected to the universe, I do like earlier novels with the Pulp-Scifi angle verses the gritty unforgiving later books that have come up.

Interesting - my first book was Decision at Thunder Rift and then Wolves on The Border. Both really played up the dark, gritty setting that was a bit Mad Max, feudalism and degraded technology.
It was a couple years later that I read the Warrior trilogy and BoK and encountered the more pulpy, moustache twirling villains.
That grittier vibe always stuck with me when I think BT universe

YingJanshi · « **Reply #21 on:** 15 July 2017, 16:31:46 »

As a thought experiment: how would the Warrior Trilogy have been if it had been written by Robert Charrette instead of Stackpole?

(I do have to confess, I'm probably too biased to comment: WotB was the first BattleTech novel I ever read, and is still my all time favorite.)

Nicolai_Malthus · « **Reply #22 on:** 15 July 2017, 22:29:29 »

I just finished reading Ideal War and it challenged a lot of my preconceptions about the Free World's League and the Word of Blake. Well, maybe it would be more accurate to say it changed my view on Thomas Marik. From reading about him in various sourcebooks, he struck me more as a calculating statesman than an idealist and romantic. While he has his calculating traits (he admits to creating the Knights of the Inner Sphere as a means of unifying the FWL under his rule), I did not think that he would be the kind of man who would care about just warfare and chivalry.

As for the Word of Blake, they also came off as way more noble than I would have thought! Precentor Blane and Precentor Martial Arian came off as people who had strong convictions and a sense of honor (Arian's refusal to fight in a city, for fear of harming the civilian population, does not strike me as something the Jihad-era WoB would care about), and not as raving maniacs. Even when Blane does things like offer supplications to a jump drive, it's not some over the top ceremony. I am sure this will change somewhere down the line though ;)

Colt Ward · « **Reply #23 on:** 15 July 2017, 22:33:34 »

Well . . . you do see the reason the last thing that went through Trent Arian's mind was the rear axle of a limo.

YingJanshi · « **Reply #24 on:** 15 July 2017, 23:01:28 »

Quote from: Nicolai_Malthus on 15 July 2017, 22:29:29

I just finished reading Ideal War and it challenged a lot of my preconceptions about the Free World's League and the Word of Blake. Well, maybe it would be more accurate to say it changed my view on Thomas Marik. From reading about him in various sourcebooks, he struck me more as a calculating statesman than an idealist and romantic. While he has his calculating traits (he admits to creating the Knights of the Inner Sphere as a means of unifying the FWL under his rule), I did not think that he would be the kind of man who would care about just warfare and chivalry.

As for the Word of Blake, they also came off as way more noble than I would have thought! Precentor Blane and Precentor Martial Arian came off as people who had strong convictions and a sense of honor (Arian's refusal to fight in a city, for fear of harming the civilian population, does not strike me as something the Jihad-era WoB would care about), and not as raving maniacs. Even when Blane does things like offer supplications to a jump drive, it's not some over the top ceremony. I am sure this will change somewhere down the line though ;)

I do find the WoB right after the Schism to be much more interesting than the WoB during the Jihad. That's mostly down to the fact that during the '50s, the WoB was made up of several different factions, each claiming to be the true and correct interpretation of the Blake's will. But by the time the Jihad kicked off, almost all of the various factions had either been purged or submitted to the Master. (Okay, granted, not quite that simple, but much more simple than the WoB during the '50s.)

Minemech · « **Reply #25 on:** 19 July 2017, 11:44:17 »

Quote from: ANS Kamas P81 on 13 July 2017, 20:51:24

What novels are best to get a feel of the LC? Not so much "the leadership" but more of a local view of things?

I recommend starting with Decision at Thunder Rift, and Mercenary Star. The local view is more accident when it appears in novels, but you do get glimpses.

Caedis Animus · « **Reply #26 on:** 21 August 2017, 22:13:53 »

Most stories I read solidify my belief that House Kurita is vastly more of a Mary Sue-style faction than House Davion.

It's not because I'm a fan of House Steiner or anything, it's just that whenever Kuritans go against pretty much anyone, that "Anyone" ends up getting hit with the idiot ball. The strongest weapon of the Dragon isn't the mechs, the infantry, or the ferocious sense of honor, discipline, pride, etc. every Kuritan Soldier has; It's the portable idiot rays they shoot at literally everyone fighting them almost every engagement.

YingJanshi · « **Reply #27 on:** 22 August 2017, 00:25:27 »

Quote from: Caedis Animus on 21 August 2017, 22:13:53

Most stories I read solidify my belief that House Kurita is vastly more of a Mary Sue-style faction than House Davion.

It's not because I'm a fan of House Steiner or anything, it's just that whenever Kuritans go against pretty much anyone, that "Anyone" ends up getting hit with the idiot ball. The strongest weapon of the Dragon isn't the mechs, the infantry, or the ferocious sense of honor, discipline, pride, etc. every Kuritan Soldier has; It's the portable idiot rays they shoot at literally everyone fighting them almost every engagement.

Honestly...that just seems to be true of the antagonist in just about all of the novels to one degree or another... :D

Major Headcase · « **Reply #28 on:** 22 August 2017, 06:52:33 »

Like many of the old bearded clan on here, I've read just about all the novels published. And after all these years I am firmly planted as a merc/independent operator! The one lesson virtually ever book has taught me is EVERY house is built on backstabbing self interest and they all suck, regardless of the thin candy shell of "honor/freddom/strength/bats@#t crazy" they try to project. 😁
The books utterly convinced me I am a Battletech Anarchist. 😂

Nicolai_Malthus · « **Reply #29 on:** 22 August 2017, 11:29:38 »

Quote from: Caedis Animus on 21 August 2017, 22:13:53

Most stories I read solidify my belief that House Kurita is vastly more of a Mary Sue-style faction than House Davion.

It's not because I'm a fan of House Steiner or anything, it's just that whenever Kuritans go against pretty much anyone, that "Anyone" ends up getting hit with the idiot ball. The strongest weapon of the Dragon isn't the mechs, the infantry, or the ferocious sense of honor, discipline, pride, etc. every Kuritan Soldier has; It's the portable idiot rays they shoot at literally everyone fighting them almost every engagement.

I'll counter that statement with: Far Country

The DEST team in that book was so incompetent it was mind boggling! The entire book is a series of bad military decisions and great luck strung together.

I get the feeling that if WH Keith had written the novel, the DEST troopers would have acted more like an elite unit, fighting the enemy on their own terms, using irregular warfare and picking their targets, instead of forming a line and dying.

Caedis Animus · « **Reply #30 on:** 22 August 2017, 20:46:18 »

Far Country's a pretty bad counter, considering... It's Far Country. It may be canon, but it's not a canon book anyone seriously considers. But either way, it's my view. And honestly, one book about alien space birds doesn't really affect that.

YingJanshi · « **Reply #31 on:** 22 August 2017, 21:25:46 »

Quote from: Caedis Animus on 22 August 2017, 20:46:18

Far Country's a pretty bad counter, considering... It's Far Country. It may be canon, but it's not a canon book anyone seriously considers. But either way, it's my view. And honestly, one book about alien space birds doesn't really affect that.

At least it had a better cover then "D.R.T"...