TRO Succession Wars and Harmony Gold

[abou]

For any one interested you can find the actual filing here:
https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/34e3xggza/washington-western-district-court//

Apparently HG is pissed because they think the Atlas is a "derivative copy" of the Armored Veritech (i.e. Crusader), the reseen Locust is a copy of the Officer's Pod (aka Marauder) and the reseen Shadow Hawk is a copy of the Destroid Spartan (aka Archer). 

Basically it looks like Harmony Gold said - "they have giant robots, they must be copies, we're going to sue."

Unfortunately, that link isn't working for me. However, if they actually made those claims... wow, the judge will kick them out so ****** fast. I mean, that is just insane.

[monbvol]

For any one interested you can find the actual filing here:
https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/34e3xggza/washington-western-district-court//

Apparently HG is pissed because they think the Atlas is a "derivative copy" of the Armored Veritech (i.e. Crusader), the reseen Locust is a copy of the Officer's Pod (aka Marauder) and the reseen Shadow Hawk is a copy of the Destroid Spartan (aka Archer). 

Basically it looks like Harmony Gold said - "they have giant robots, they must be copies, we're going to sue."

I know I shouldn't be laughing my fool head off right now but I am.

[ActionButler]

[copper]

Last thing from me... this is a long-running issue with Battletech.  You know it, the mods know it, CGL knows it.  Everyone has very strong opinions, and while these forums are a place to express opinions, the rules still apply. 

Please keep the conversation clean and civil.

[copper]

[Frabby]

The BattleTech licenses ultimately derive from Microsoft (electronic rights, granted to Piranha Games and Weisman/Harebrained Schemes) and Topps (other BattleTech IP, granted to IMR/CGL). Both Microsoft and Topps should be able to meet Harmony Gold at eye level when it comes to the will and capacity to see a lawsuit through.

My impression about the 1994 lawsuit was that Harmony Gold had much deeper pockets, forcing FASA to accept a settlement deal that may have been worse than what they might ultimately have achieved in court.
These days, I don't think Harmony Gold can win a court case by claiming current MWO or HBS art infringes on their IPs. The Exosquad lawsuit over what basically was a MadCat clone (a lawsuit that FASA lost) shows just how far you can push the envelope here. My money is not on Harmony Gold in this action.

[Liam's Ghost]

Apparently HG is pissed because they think the Atlas is a "derivative copy" of the Armored Veritech (i.e. Crusader), the reseen Locust is a copy of the Officer's Pod (aka Marauder) and the reseen Shadow Hawk is a copy of the Destroid Spartan (aka Archer). 

Basically it looks like Harmony Gold said - "they have giant robots, they must be copies, we're going to sue."

Those three definitely feel tacked on to the point of being nonsensical. Interestingly, it appears that these are the only specific complaints against Harebrained Schemes, with the others being Piranha Games images. I dare say Harmony Gold went after Harebrained Schemes purely due to association, and Catalyst and Iron Wind Metals might have dodged a bullet simply by being a smaller fish in a more niche market.

[HMS_Swiftsure]

"ORDER signed by Clerk William M. McCool granting39 Motion for Default by Harmony Gold U.S.A., Inc. Default entered against InMediaRes Productions, LLC."

So it's over before it began?  The case says the Atlas is too similar to Robotech stuff.  Does that mean we can't see the Atlas in new products?

[Maingunnery]

Apparently HG is pissed because they think the Atlas is a "derivative copy" of the Armored Veritech (i.e. Crusader), the reseen Locust is a copy of the Officer's Pod (aka Marauder) and the reseen Shadow Hawk is a copy of the Destroid Spartan (aka Archer). 

I am not a lawyer, but can't that sink their entire case? The Atlas doesn't look at all like the Armored Veritech and has been in active use for almost a generation.
Also I don't think that HG can show damages.

[Liam's Ghost]

"ORDER signed by Clerk William M. McCool granting39 Motion for Default by Harmony Gold U.S.A., Inc. Default entered against InMediaRes Productions, LLC."

I have no idea what those words mean. Why don't lawyers talk like real people?

[jklantern]

I have no idea what those words mean. Why don't lawyers talk like real people?

Because then that wouldn't require the boatloads of special training to become one.

[Sartris]

[abou]

So HG defaulted then?

[Liam's Ghost]

So the link Irose provided mentions a summons to InMediaRes as a defendant (and Loren Coleman in particular), but they aren't listed as a defendant.

EDIT: Okay, if I'm parsing things correctly, InMediaRes is covered under the Does 1-10 section of the list of defendants, which apparently includes anybody else Harmony Gold can think to sue in relation to this.

[HMS_Swiftsure]

If I'm reading it correctly, CGL didn't send a lawyer, so the judge ruled in default against CGL.

I'm not a lawyer, actual meaning may be entirely different.

[abou]

If I'm reading it correctly, CGL didn't send a lawyer, so the judge ruled in default against CGL.

I'm not a lawyer, actual meaning may be entirely different.

Oh, please do not tell me these guys were so unorganized that they didn't get a lawyer.

[YingJanshi]

Oh boy....

This article is a few years old, but it's the best explanation I've seen of the whole mess:
https://www.google.com/amp/kotaku.com/5990702/why-you-havent-seen-any-new-macross-in-the-west-for-nearly-15-years/amp

So basically, the reason HG has been slapping down any and all (even the merest whiffs) of infringement is because if someone were to fight them in court (and get Big West and Taktsunoko on their side) it would be very easy to prove that their claim to a worldwide ownership of the entirety of Macross is an erroneous one. That in fact all they do have is the simple distribution rights to SFDM. (It's also unknown if Taktsunoko even had the right to license the anime to HG in the first place.)


Unfortunately no one has thought it worth fighting HG over it, nor do the Japanese companies seem interested in expanding outside of Japan. So until that happens, HG will continue it's stranglehold on Macross.


(Note: I am not a lawyer, nor do I have anything above a cursory knowledge of the applicable laws. I've just read up a lot on it because I find the case a curious one.

[Liam's Ghost]

Oh, please do not tell me these guys were so unorganized that they didn't get a lawyer.

According to the wikipedia link, such rulings are routinely set aside once the defendant gets a lawyer, as long as some defense is mounted.

Oh boy....

This article is a few years old, but it's the best explanation I've seen of the whole mess:
https://www.google.com/amp/kotaku.com/5990702/why-you-havent-seen-any-new-macross-in-the-west-for-nearly-15-years/amp

So basically, the reason HG has been slapping down any and all (even the merest whiffs) of infringement is because if someone were to fight them in court (and get Big West and Taktsunoko on their side) it would be very easy to prove that their claim to a worldwide ownership of the entirety of Macross is an erroneous one. That in fact all they do have is the simple distribution rights to SFDM. (It's also unknown if Taktsunoko even had the right to license the anime to HG in the first place.)

Unfortunately no one has thought it worth fighting HG over it, nor do the Japanese companies seem interested in expanding outside of Japan. So until that happens, HG will continue it's stranglehold on Macross.

(Note: I am not a lawyer, nor do I have anything above a cursory knowledge of the applicable laws. I've just read up a lot on it because I find the case a curious one.

I have this childish fantasy that this case will be their downfall.

[Daryk]

I find it curious that HG failed to list Catalyst as a defendant (instead lumping them with the other "John Doe" defendants ("Does 1-10")) while citing them explicitly later in the complaint.

[Liam's Ghost]

I find it curious that HG failed to list Catalyst as a defendant (instead lumping them with the other "John Doe" defendants ("Does 1-10")) while citing them explicitly later in the complaint.

Does 1-10 gives them leeway to go after other groups (Iron wind metals might be a target) without being specific immediately.

[pheonixstorm]

I'm really curious as to who the other Does might be. We know that CGL, InRes, and IWM might be involved, but what of the other 7? Topps and Microsoft only bring it to 5.. Would the Artists of said units also be a possibility? Even then thats another two defendents??

What I find extremely laughable though is the inclusion of the MWO Shadow Hawk, Locust, and Atlas. Neither of which is based off of Macross and it can be proven that the Atlas is derived from original artwork that dates back to the FASA days ~30 years ago and the Locust/Shadow Hawk were based off a series HG has zero rights to anyway nor do either of those designs even remotely resemble any current or former Robotech art.

[Fear Factory]

Jeez.

Seems pretty damn stupid.  The new images are not copies, there are enough artistic liberties taken that makes them significantly different.

Makes me think:  So, when did Harmony Gold get copyright on stompy robots?  Hopefully they review the Hasbro thing and throw this case out of the window.  And hopefully this wasn't sat on by Catalyst, Hairbrained, PGI, long enough that this is now a huge problem.

[pensiveswetness]

For any one interested you can find the actual filing here:
https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/34e3xggza/washington-western-district-court//

Apparently HG is pissed because they think the Atlas is a "derivative copy" of the Armored Veritech (i.e. Crusader), the reseen Locust is a copy of the Officer's Pod (aka Marauder) and the reseen Shadow Hawk is a copy of the Destroid Spartan (aka Archer). 

Basically it looks like Harmony Gold said - "they have giant robots, they must be copies, we're going to sue."

when you say 'Atlas' can you be specific? you mean the version used in MWO? How the ... does the MWO Atlas even remotely look like the GBP-1S Armored Valkyrie? I will admit this topic is... insightful (and as the mods previously warned, passion-inducing)...

[Liam's Ghost]

when you say 'Atlas' can you be specific? you mean the version used in MWO? How the ... does the MWO Atlas even remotely look like the GBP-1S Armored Valkyrie?

It has two arms and two legs.  :P

[pheonixstorm]

It has two arms and two legs.  :P

Guess that means that the developers of Titanfall might be next #P

[Tai Dai Cultist]

The plaintiff's strategy behind lawsuits is sometimes only peripheral to whether they think they can actually win on the merits of their case.  If you go after the right target, you can get what you want without having to deal with a full on trial.  I'm guessing HG thinks they see easy prey they can intimidate into a settlement.  Or that they're willing to settle for a settlement that costs the defendants less than it costs to defend themselves in trial.

[Sharpnel]

I like to see HG crushed in the courts, and forced to pay all expenses and lost profits.

Their last lawsuit of this type was dismissed. I guess that's good news.

[pheonixstorm]

I thought the Hasbro suit was settled out of court... but either way I think HG is just harassing Jordan. I guess breaking up his hard #P HG... is like that stalker ex-girlfriend that just won't go away :o (I jest, please don't beat me up with that ban hammer!! ;D )

[Highball]

I was pissed that the iconic Mech's were excluded, but I am a glass half full guy so here is what I think we should do .............

Start a funding page for the legal defense fund against Harmony Gold. I want our team to literally DESTROY HARMONY GOLD once and for all! I am sick and tired of these hacks returning again and again. WHEN, not if, we DESTROY HARMONY GOLD, and win this battle once and for all then TRO Succession Wars will be re-released with all the missing designs. If you purchased the PDF or Dead Tree copy, and contribute $50 to the legal defense fund, you get the new re-released PDF or Dead Tree copy free when we WIN! This will be our Victory dance! We will dance around the proverbial bon fire with our copies of our new TRO Succession War like stark raving mad lunatics!

I pledge $100 to this quest to DESTROY HARMONY GOLD!

So which one of TPTB will grab this torch and make it happen. Let's lobotomize these Harmony Gold fools and send them packing once and for all!

BATTLETECH FOREVER!

[worktroll]

Guys -

Cool it. CGL's website is NOT the place to assemble pitchfork- or torch-bearing lynch mobs. Further inflammatory posts will result in warnings.

You do not riot in our place, thank you very much.

Worktroll, Ombudsman [copper]

[Azakael]

I am not a lawyer, so I might be off on this thought... but wouldn't it be ironic if the Playmates vs. FASA (MadCat Ripoff...) was one of the legal precedents cited on behalf of the defendants in this case? It would just feel somewhat poetic to me.

[SteelRaven]

I actually read about this on Battletech International Facebook fan page, pitchforks are welcome there. The UK guys were suppose to bring the torches but showed up with flashlights instead. 

I'll keep all my negative thoughts to myself, it's the one bit of nostalgia that makes me way to emotional.

Best of luck to CGL and all those involved in this mess.