Explain To Me How The Merc Trade Works In BT

[Easy]

@Kidd I think your exposition is really good. Maybe you'd consider doing an essay for us.

I would add that the primary planetary ruler is more often a Duke, I think, with the title of Baron being a special grant, in some cases, for a particularly important asset like a BattleMech factory complex or other vital holding. You might make an exception for something like a really major industrial holding that swings alot of weight, so that 'CEO' might also be a Duke, but maybe only in terms of technical rank, and not invested with grand strategy-level power.

The other thing I'd like to mention is that, although we find few actual republics in the holdings of the Great Houses, that doesn't mean that most common people are completely powerless, or can't hire mercenaries for their own ends, like putting down a particularly nasty lower to mid-level noble when a planetary ruler is somehow powerless to do anything about it. Torches and pitchforks with some military grade support, if you will. This, of course, varies by planet and Great House. Davion, for instance, is reputed to have high levels of commoner liberty, so maybe this would be something you'd see more of in the FedSuns Outback regions than in more authoritarian regimes.

[Kidd]

@Kidd I think your exposition is really good. Maybe you'd consider doing an essay for us.

I do in fact have the outline of a Fan Article on feudalism and Battletech, tucked away between two fanfictions and an article on JumpShip logistics ;D but its a very big topic, heavy on fan-theory-head-canon*, and I just decided to do another MOTW.

*which is generally a turn-off for me to read, so I am hesitant to inflict my theories on others.

[CrossfirePilot]

It should be noted, mercenary companies fail at almost exactly the same rate as restaurants.  Perhaps someone who wrote that book had some experience in that industry? 

Which is why many a former mercenary commander goes to open a bar and pub.

[Kit deSummersville]

(given the restaurant comparison, I'm imagining Grayson Carlyle as the Gordon Ramsay of mercenaries). 

You donkey, you let them hit the risotto shipment with infernos! You could have killed someone! Shut it down, shut it down! Get out of here, go back to the base, I'll take care of this.

[Kovax]

In the worst parts of the early Succession Wars, the levels of loyalty and the stability of the power structure were probably a bit more fluid than during the 3rd and 4th.  Taking land from a neighboring noble's fief MIGHT be overlooked by your common overlord, but the odds are pretty high that it would be seen as a breach of the terms of your own title.  If you're "in" well enough with your overlord, and your neighbor isn't (he's done something to piss off those higher up), the odds are a lot better.  If you're using a foreign invasion as an excuse to "protect" and then permanently occupy that territory, you're probably going to pay dearly for it, one way or another, unless you've already made some kind of secret agreement with your overlord.

By the end of the 4th Succession War, the House militaries and power structures seem to have congealed enough that such an infraction would be unacceptable in most Houses.

[glitterboy2098]

The other thing I'd like to mention is that, although we find few actual republics in the holdings of the Great Houses, that doesn't mean that most common people are completely powerless, or can't hire mercenaries for their own ends, like putting down a particularly nasty lower to mid-level noble when a planetary ruler is somehow powerless to do anything about it. Torches and pitchforks with some military grade support, if you will. This, of course varies by planet and Great House. Davion, for instance, is reputed to have high levels of commoner liberty, so maybe this would be something you'd see more of in the FedSuns Outback regions than in more authoritarian regimes.

not to mention the existence of a successor state wide federal judiciary and court system..
if another baron does just seize your holdings, and an appeal to the Duke does not work, you can also haul the other baron before a federal court and have the issue settled there. likely by some non-noble from half way across the successor state who doesn't have ties to anyone involved.

as tempting as it is to perceive of the nobles as autocrats, the fact is that most of the successor states are more like constitutional monarchies, to varying degrees. they have modern legal systems and a system of checks and balances on the power of the nobility to prevent the very sorts of abuses that Tai Dai Cultist presupposes. which we often see in the novels, as the reasoning the villain of the work has to use covert channels, under-the-table deals, false flags, and mercenaries hired through middlemen to achieve their goals.

This doesn't prevent them from abuses obviously, but it does mean they have to be circumspect and aware of the legal repercussions to them. a good example would be how Govenor Wilmarth (a baron, by the description in the novel, though not caleld such by the locals who hated him) on Caledonia was able to get away with his 'reign of terror'.. He was using "public safety" as an excuse to aggressively and heavy handedly oppress a political dissident movement (which while largely peaceful had a few violent members), and when supporters of that movement held rallies, he had them broken up violently by treating them as riots.
a Baron wanting to seize control of a factory on a world wouldn't be able to just march troops in during a crisis and say "its mine now".. not without precipitating an armed response by the Duke against a "rebellion".. but they could manipulate land and stock prices, buy up the other baron's debts, and then make the transfer of the factory part of the repayment of that debt. or arranges a 'pirate' raid that mildly damages the factory in some expensive way, that lets the baron pick it up cheap. etc. wars in the shadows, fought with money, spies, and covert operatives. on the surface, all must look peaceful and legal.. because otherwise their reputation and standing is damaged, making social advancement difficult. and one thing nearly every baron would be aiming for is social improvement. why be a baron when you can be a Count? why be a Count when you can be a Duke? and in some cases where the lineage is close, why be a Duke when you can be First Prince?

[Garrand]

Keep in mind as well that if the barons on this planet are feuding, that compromises their ability to discharge their duties & maintain the defense, so whomever the overlord is has a vested interest in keeping that shenanigans down (because HE has to answer to someone higher than him... a March lord or the First Prince/Archon/whomever). Also keep in mind the nature of nobility in the Middle Ages or a neo-feudal setting: that baron you are messing with might be family to either yourself, or to your overlord. Your daughter could be married to their son, or your son may have married into your overlord's family, etc. Or that baron might be a second son installed by your overlord to provide for him. So if you decide to cause trouble, then some of your peers or your overlord might see it as being personal...

Damon.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

... they have modern legal systems and a system of checks and balances on the power of the nobility...

But do they, really?  Plenty of court administered "justice" is doled out to common folk, sure.  But for nobles grabbing each other's territory?  I'm not so sure.  For example, When House Vandenberg had their entire fief usurped, why did its scion and heir have to go thru the events of the original Mechwarrior video game to undo the land grab, as opposed to just filing a grievance with some Davion court?  (granted, video game plots are technically considered apocryphal, but it's the most prominent example that came to mind regardless)

What I do know for sure is that sources at least as far back as the 1987 Mercenary's Handbook discuss that the Ares Conventions legitimized military action as a way to settle even minor disputes.   That in of itself is critical for the vitality of the mercenary industry in the setting.

...By the end of the 4th Succession War, the House militaries and power structures seem to have congealed enough that such an infraction would be unacceptable in most Houses.

Point granted that petty nobility grabbing each others' stuff is less acceptable in the Clan Invasion to Jihad eras than in those eras before and after.  That being admitted, it *is* a perfect time for petty nobility on Davion and Steiner worlds to go grabbing at each other's stuff during the Civil War.

[Kovax]

Wars are a perfect time to grab land from nobles on the other side, not your own.  There's a subtle distinction.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Wars are a perfect time to grab land from nobles on the other side, not your own.  There's a subtle distinction.

Exactly, and what about if the noble who has a fief next to yours *is* your enemy?  "Us against them" doesn't fly very well in (neo-)feudalism.

[glitterboy2098]

But do they, really?  Plenty of court administered "justice" is doled out to common folk, sure.  But for nobles grabbing each other's territory?  I'm not so sure.  For example, When House Vandenberg had their entire fief usurped, why did its scion and heir have to go thru the events of the original Mechwarrior video game to undo the land grab, as opposed to just filing a grievance with some Davion court?  (granted, video game plots are technically considered apocryphal, but it's the most prominent example that came to mind regardless)

actually that is an example that helps show my point.

the plot of that game goes that Anders Moon is under house vandenburg. during a pirate raid, Duke Vandenburg* is killed and an important artifact required for he succession ceremony is stolen. with Gideon too young and the artifact missing, the local legal authorities declare the succession is to be delayed until the heri, Gideon, becomes 23 years old. Then House Vandenburg's rivals, House McBrin, 'discover' some evidence that implicates House Vandenburg in the raid, with the Vandenburgs consorting with the pirates, only to double cross them, leading the pirates to attack in retaliation, leaving Making House Vandenburg lose prestige and putting the succession into question, since the evidence basically implicated Gideon and his father in Treason against the Fedcom. which led Gideon to flee the world, create his merc unit, and seek out both the artifact and proof that the evidence against his family was falsified. if he doesn't achieve that by the time he turns 23, house McBrin would be given control off the world.
it isn't a case of the rival just showing up with some troops and saying "my world now", but rather the rival hiring mercenaries to conduct a false flag raid as part of a conspiracy to discredit another house, while using the legal system to enact a transfer of power.

*that the control of a minor world in a system was a duke, and not a baron or count is probably a bit of early installment weirdness.

Exactly, and what about if the noble who has a fief next to yours *is* your enemy?  "Us against them" doesn't fly very well in (neo-)feudalism.

then you get labelled a traitor, and your holdings and forces crushed by house troops sent to put down your 'rebellion'. time of war or not, an outright attack on a neighboring noble of the same house would be viewed as actions against the state, and responded to as such. because as a noble you are obligated as part of your fealty to defend the realm.. which includes your neighbors lands, because they are part of the realm. attacking your neighbor in open warfare is a blatant detrimental act to the defense and readiness of the realm, and thus the higher nobles would be forced to act to stop the aggressor.
far more likely would be the noble deploying his own forces in such a way to leave his neighbor more vulnerable to attack.. like not placing the troops where they can react to enemies hitting the neighbors worlds, or using influence at court to get the house troops deployed to your worlds in large numbers than your neighbor's, making them more attractive to attack.
not to mention organizing raids or invasions of minor worlds on the enemy side meant to gain glory for yourself (and if you are really clever, you raid enemy worlds close to your rival's worlds, so that the retaliatory raids hit your rival, and not you. )
in both cases the goal is to make your rival appear weaker or more foolhardy, and yourself stronger and more valiant.. impressions that you can then parlay into better standings at court and opportunities for social advancement or acquisition of further power in the various noble intrigues.

in many ways the politics of the inner sphere can be summed up at a Ten Thousand Gambit Pile up.. with every nobleman involved in one or more schemes, all at the expense of the other noblemen, at various different levels.


edit: it is worth noting that had blatant internecine warfare with no legal repercussions been a thing, books like The Price of Glory would have been over very quick.. why would a rogue precentor and the Duke or Irian have to contrive a scheme involving using other mercenaries pulling an atrocity under a false flag in order to discredit the grey death legion and get them arrested and held.. all so the Duke of Irian could grab the grey death's landhold? they could have just landed troops in overwhelming force and taken it. they had to do the false flag atrocity because they had to ensure that when they went in for the landhold, they had clear legal basis to do so.

[Xiwo Xerase]

New topic so the differences in pov on the nature of petty nobility doesn't derail the thread about mercs:
Mercenary trade in 3145+.

I suspect we're seeing mercs being written out of the game, which is a shame as they've been a core part of it for so long.  The Dark Age doesn't have HPG nets OR a currency accepted across the Inner Sphere.  That means no regular contact with Hiring Halls, which means mercs are begging for work when a contract ends.  Without currency that can be spent anywhere, they're stuck accepting House Bills that are useless except as fire-lighters if they relocate.  If the Clans conquer the Inner Sphere (as is possible, given we have an IlClan coming) there won't be any room for mercs anyway.

Both problems make it harder to be a mercenary unit but I believe they don't make it impossible.

For example, is Galatea still a hiring hall?  If so, there should be agents from the surrounding nations (Lyran Commonwealth, Free Worlds League, Galatean League, Republic Remnant, and so on) with contracts to offer.  New contracts may be slow in coming since they have to come in via JumpShip Express but they should have something.  There's no lack of work to be done on that side of the Sphere.

The currency problem can be worked around.  Mercenaries can always ask to be paid primarily in goods, e.g. ammunition, or in whatever currency they trust (e.g. Clan Sea Fox).

If ilClan unifies (most of) the Inner Sphere, we may see the mercenary trade shut down but we won't know until the book is in our hands.

[glitterboy2098]

Galatea is once again the main center for mercenaries. the MRBC operates from there, though it lost some of its neutrality since the loss of outreach. (FM3145, pg176)

actually that page starts the mercenaries section of FM3145.. the merc business is simultaneously much riskier.. and booming. there are a lot more contracts and a lot less regulation.. but there are also a lot more problems. there are few reliable employers anymore, with many of the ones that used to be reliable like the Lyrans and Davions facing major financial and organizational issues, though there are a lot more smaller employers around.
the collapse of the C-bill and the republic Stone makes it trickier to handle finances in general, and distribution issues and high general demand means supplies are scarce and prices on the market are high. many mercs have started using ammunition as currency (how very Metro2033), which has made the market situation even worse.

Galatea is also its own semi-independant nation at the moment.. the Galatean league. it was created after grey monday to defend it and the surrounding worlds from attacks by the Falcons, Wolves, and Bears.

[wanderer25]

 
  About local brush wars between nobles. I think the best canon example is operation Flash point. The world has  two counts and a bunch of Barons  governing  through a house of lords/parliament . In order for the lesser count to go after the top one he has to frame  him for bombing the house of lords killing most of them.

 So in the Lyran half of the FC  you need some legal argument/fiction  to go to war with an other noble. PR is also a part of the campaign so the people do matter at some level.

The two counts were said to be the only mech owners of the planet . The text says twice what the PCs have with the assumption  trough-out the text that the PC have a company.  So say 2 companies plus a command/personal lance for each counts. (+ some conventional  troops). The barons household troop are said to range from a platoon of foot infantry to a few companies of armor/infantry.

So the counts could take over some baronies pretty easily if they wanted too but dont  due to other constraints.


 

[massey]

Generally, nobles in Battletech are fairly well entrenched and have a lot of power besides their title.  But that doesn't mean that they're obligated to help out other nobles, or likely to seek their assistance.  And going and complaining to a more powerful noble just makes you look weak.  You aren't some oppressed minority fighting for civil rights, you're a damned noble.  The top 1% of 1% of 1% of 1%.  You're expected to handle your own business, not go bothering the guy above you because somebody else was mean to you.

Baron von Buttwipe is a low level noble on the backwater FedSuns planet of Mudball V, a world with about 100 million people on it.  He owns 30% of Buttwipe Motors, the Volkswagen equivalent of Mudball V.  He sits on the board of directors of half a dozen different companies (but never actually attends in person).  He has landholdings about the size of the western half of the United States, but it's so sparsely inhabited that most of the land is pretty worthless.  He collects some fees and taxes from the people who live there on top of what the local government needs to function, but by the time he gets his cut, it's just enough to maintain his mountain castle and do maintenance on his estate.  There's an AC-5 factory within his territory, and while it's technically owned by some off-planet megacorp, the Baron owns the 400 miles of train track that connects the factory to the starport.  Protecting that factory is a vital part of his power base.  He sends a representative to the planetary legislature, and he gets to appoint one of the judges on the planetary supreme court.  His power is extensive.  To protect this, he maintains a lance of mechs (2 Griffins, an Enforcer, and a Javelin) and two companies of Scorpion tanks, as well a battalion of infantry and a "private police force" who operate pretty quietly and make problems go away.

All this power comes from Baron von Buttwipe's family history, going all the way back 800 years ago to Victor von Buttwipe, a businessman from Earth who paid a bunch of settlers to go plant flags saying "property of Victor von Buttwipe" all across the countryside.  For a while, the family ruled that land as absolute monarchs.  Everyone who lived there was an employee of the Buttwipe Corporation, and since the only law came from corporate security, let's say that losing your job had really bad consequences.  But eventually they ran into other people on the same planet who felt they were absolute monarchs.  This led to a series of wars until eventually some sort of peace treaties were signed.  Then you had peace on Mudball V.  That is, of course, until Count Jackboot from a neighboring star system comes in and threatens to conquer everything unless you pay him tribute.  He didn't call himself "Count" Jackboot at the time, he called himself "King of the Universe, Emperor-for-life Jackboot" back then.

Eventually, these wars and conquests settled into what we think of as the normal Inner Sphere neo-feudalistic system.  But that took a while.  People had to get their asses kicked and learn their place.  Eventually these planetary dictators ran into the really big dogs, the Haseks, the Sandovals, and the Davions.  And everybody had to fall into line.  And the Davions would recognize your claim over your land and property, and in return you put their picture up on the wall and send some money their way.  And you of course have the obligation to protect your own stuff.  You're not Baron von Buttwipe just because the Prince likes you, you're the Baron because you've managed to successfully hold onto your property for the past several centuries.

--

What this means is that any noble who has to go through a federal court system in order to get his stuff back, isn't going to be a noble for long.  It means he can't protect his own stuff.  He's weak, and he's going to be an immediate target for every aggressive neighbor.  Now that doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be marching mechs into the courtyard of your mountain palace.  They'll know how far they can bend the rules and still get away with it.

Now, a full-scale invasion from House Kurita?  No minor noble is expected to hold them off on his own.  The planetary ruler is expected to fight those battles, but if the invasion crosses over into your territory, you have a vested interest in protecting your own stuff.  Baron von Buttwipe doesn't want to see the AC-5 factory destroyed, so he'll bring out his personal forces to protect it.  But you can't really count on your neighbor sending troops to help you, they've got their troops busy defending their own important stuff.

Raids and other minor attacks, you're expected to defend your own stuff without help.  That's why you're the Baron and why you get to be in charge of such a vast area of land.  If you go crying to the Duke that you need help against pirates, well you do that too often and he's going to wonder why he doesn't just get rid of you and increase his own landholdings.

What this does is create a huge market for mercenaries, as long as they know how to find work.  It's like playing the stock market, you can make a ton of money or you can lose your shirt.  There are lots of nobles out there who find out they need a bigger military, and they need it quickly.  Hire a company of mechs, and suddenly all the other Barons on Mudball V better watch out.  You're a force to be reckoned with.  Now, once tensions cool down, a merc unit will want to look for the next guy who has mis-managed his estate over the last 20 years, and needs a quick show of force so that his aggressive neighbors will back off.

There are tons and tons of little raids and little conflicts, and that's where the average merc unit finds its most regular work.  That's their bread and butter.

[Shin Ji]

As a small aside, I don't see why the collapse of the C-bill should be all that big of a deal in and of itself.  Can't the various House currencies simply be exchanged at the borders, or in whatever passes for a bank or something?  Sure, somebody is gonna take their cut, but given that it's not a monopolized industry, if their cut is too high, move over to the next place in town, right?

[Kovax]

Exchanging currency is yet another inconvenience to be dealt with, not a "game over".  There's enough trade across borders so that merchants would be willing to accept foreign currency which they can use a month or so down the road, in exchange for a percentage of the value: "Sure, I'll take K-Bills.  The official rate is 1.3 to the L-Bill, but I won't accept less than 1.4 per."

The merc gets merchandise for about 90-95% of the "official" value for his money, and the merchant uses the bills a month later when his ship crosses over into the Kurita half of his trade run, with the 5-10% surcharge as "interest" for the time that the funds were "less useful" in Lyran space.

[CungrVanck]

Good conversation gents!

Though I am seeing a piece of info that hasn't been mentioned that may play a factor in the mercenary trade.

A local Duke is not just in charge of a planet.  A Duke is in charge of a star system with potentially multiple counts, barons, viscounts, etc controlling fiefdoms on other worlds, moons, asteroids, mining facilities, space stations, etc.  Each one existing under completely different defensive requirements.  Hiring mercs for those niche rolls could be more efficient.  Not to mention if Count Bob has a fiefdom on the 4th planet that's on the other side of the sun, well you might just want to put a merc unit there so you know the local force it loyal to your coin and not anything Count Bob may purpose.

Also, with the nobility controlling a system and not just a planet in mind, it not as impossible to see that perhaps there are an equal  or greater number of mechs existing outside the armies of the Great Houses.

Example:

Say each House has 50 BattleMech regiments give or take.
That's 250 regiments for the five Great Houses total. (50 regiments x 5 Great Houses = 250 regiments)
That's 27,000 total mechs in the armies of the Great Houses (250 regiments x 108 mechs per regiment = 27,000)
If an equal number of mechs exist outside the Great House armies and they are equally distributed between the 2000 star systems (give or take) in the Inner Sphere.....

That leads to 13.5 (round up to 14 for simplicity) BattleMechs in each SYSTEM outside Great House control.  If a system has more than one world that is populated (something that occurs regularly in the Lore), then you would only have a lance or two of mechs outside Great House control on any world or moon or asteroid throughout the Inner Sphere.

As those mechs cannot be everywhere, there will be a need for Mercenaries to fill in the gaps.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Exchanging currency is yet another inconvenience to be dealt with, not a "game over".  There's enough trade across borders so that merchants would be willing to accept foreign currency which they can use a month or so down the road, in exchange for a percentage of the value: "Sure, I'll take K-Bills.  The official rate is 1.3 to the L-Bill, but I won't accept less than 1.4 per."

The merc gets merchandise for about 90-95% of the "official" value for his money, and the merchant uses the bills a month later when his ship crosses over into the Kurita half of his trade run, with the 5-10% surcharge as "interest" for the time that the funds were "less useful" in Lyran space.

I'd say that's more true of being paid in House Bills in the pre-Dark Age eras.  In the Dark Age, we see in the sourcebooks that Mercs are preferring to be paid in munitions rather than House Bills.  That says alot about how little reliability there is in exchanging currency, even at suboptimal rates during this period.

Going back to the Hiring Halls in the Dark Age: yeah they're open, but without a working HPG network they're useless unless you're actually on that planet.  In earlier eras maybe you never had to physically *be* at a hiring hall world and relied on brokers and inbetweens to negotiate contracts so you just move your unit from contract world to contract world rather than from contract world to hiring hall to contract world.  FTL communication is once again done by courier ship.   I suppose it's *possible* to conduct Hiring Hall business from off-world over 32nd century snail mail, but it'd surely be inefficient.  That makes for smaller profit margins for mercs and hiring patrons both... but those combine to hit mercs doubly (less profits, and less contracts b/c patrons less likely to use Hiring Halls).

If the IlClan doesn't conquer the Inner Sphere or otherwise institute a new age of PeaceTech, if Mercs are to stick around to a degree resembling the 31st century and before some things are going to have to change back in their favor or the industry will just starve, aside *possibly* for a handful of very powerful and influential merc outfits that could feasibly remain independently operating.

[Easy]

Good conversation gents!

Though I am seeing a piece of info that hasn't been mentioned that may play a factor in the mercenary trade.

A local Duke is not just in charge of a planet.  A Duke is in charge of a star system with potentially multiple counts, barons, viscounts, etc controlling fiefdoms on other worlds, moons, asteroids, mining facilities, space stations, etc.  Each one existing under completely different defensive requirements.  Hiring mercs for those niche rolls could be more efficient.  Not to mention if Count Bob has a fiefdom on the 4th planet that's on the other side of the sun, well you might just want to put a merc unit there so you know the local force it loyal to your coin and not anything Count Bob may purpose.

Also, with the nobility controlling a system and not just a planet in mind, it not as impossible to see that perhaps there are an equal  or greater number of mechs existing outside the armies of the Great Houses.

Example:

Say each House has 50 BattleMech regiments give or take.
That's 250 regiments for the five Great Houses total. (50 regiments x 5 Great Houses = 250 regiments)
That's 27,000 total mechs in the armies of the Great Houses (250 regiments x 108 mechs per regiment = 27,000)
If an equal number of mechs exist outside the Great House armies and they are equally distributed between the 2000 star systems (give or take) in the Inner Sphere.....

That leads to 13.5 (round up to 14 for simplicity) BattleMechs in each SYSTEM outside Great House control.  If a system has more than one world that is populated (something that occurs regularly in the Lore), then you would only have a lance or two of mechs outside Great House control on any world or moon or asteroid throughout the Inner Sphere.

As those mechs cannot be everywhere, there will be a need for Mercenaries to fill in the gaps.

I think that exposition on Dukes is based on fairly reasonable and consistent assumptions. Your math on BattleMech numbers also seems pretty good.

I'll posit that for this model/standard era, roughly a company's worth of 'Mechs are in hands outside of the Great House armed forces, but there are also the Militias to account for separately, sometimes.

Sometimes you count a Militia's BattleMechs, if they have any, as part of the larger Great House armed forces, sometimes you don't, and that's usually era specific. I'd suggest this dozen BattleMechs are counted as belonging to that Militia and sometimes not, without a hard and fast rule to be applied because there simply isn't that level of homogeneous organization operative most of the time. It may be a case for a little due diligence.

The dozen BattleMechs are an attractive average to work from and possibly even the default assumption. That average might not be quite so reliable when you get down to specific systems and worlds for campaign planning, for instance.

Only because there are some worlds that are plainly, obviously and irrefutably more attractive to the accumulation of forces than others. This is a constant in some systems, and a variable in others according to the tides of history and various operations. So we take that into account, right?

There's a caveat. When I look at it like a table where you'd say, "Ah, I rolled a 7, that's one company's worth of medium 'Mechs in somebody's hands, together or not. I apply the border world modifier, the House modifier and the Industrial, Technological and Population modifiers and that gives me 8.3 BattleMechs in the system not belonging to the House armed forces. My mercenaries will have to contend with two lances and some change."

I mean, you might do that for a pickup game. MekHQ does that, to some extent, and various video games have their own force generator rules, of course. Those can, however, wind up a little jarringly out of step with the broader context of that world with historical events it might play some small part of, even if only by being in proximity.

I just take numbers like those with a grain of salt and when I look at a world as the potential site of some action I start accumulating data and stuff before I make a decision about what kind and how many forces I will assume are present.

[Kidd]

@Shin Ji - that's a lot of cash you're losing in foreign exchange. Companies operate on tight margins most of the time. 10% profit is a VERY good day, 5% far more likely. When you lose 2% in forex, that's 2% in proportion to revenue, but 20% to 40% in proportion to profit. The C-bill was directly analogous to USD in our world - relatively stable and trusted and therefore used to denominate everything when comparing cross-border figures. Taking that away is like... like... taking away English dude!

@CungrVanck - actually the Successor States have usually maintained an average of 100+ active Mech regts, and systems with more than one habitable planet are canonically rare.

I said it upthread and I'm repeating here, the number of active Mechs or combat forces not stated in the books can't be a significant proportion of the stated forces, perhaps not more than 20%, in order to avoid throwing the universe into the sink at Ludicrous Speed. If 36 Mechs land on a planet and fight 36 Mechs plus an additional 7 from the miltiia, that's doable. Its not doable when 36 Mechs fight 36 Mechs and another 36 "off the books".

The one exception I'd make to the rule is infantry.

[Daryk]

I don't want to speak for CungrVanck, but I think his point was that the "off the books" units wouldn't be concentrated like the House units. much less with the House units...

[glitterboy2098]

it is worth noting that Comstar and the HPG's were the foundation of nearly all the interstellar networks in the successor states.. including the banking systems. without the rapid communications allowed by the HPG's, the worlds within a successor state would not be able to easily communicate financial records and transactions using house bills.. which would result in each world basically being on its own. so the house bills are not only going to be fluctuating relative to the other house's currencies.. but also from world to world within each successor state, depending on local economic conditions.

this would help explain why mercs would be reluctant to accept house bills.. 10 D-bills on New Avalon will have different buying power than the same amount on islamabad, or Gambier, etc.

[Kidd]

The worth of money is entirely in who is willing to accept it, and acceptance is tied to what the receiver thinks he can get for it. The C-bill is paramount because all nations, and many if not most planets can supply themselves with all other resources, with the exception of HPG communications. The universal necessity of paying Comstar aside, there is no reason why anyone would even bother to give you a clipped cent for your House scrip. (Try paying off your local grocer in say, Thai baht. Even in our world where forex is much easier and really all he needs to do is go down to the bank and change it, your grocer is more likely to tell you to shove your baht where the sun don't shine.)

From a merc's perspective, therefore, C-bills are an absolute necessity unless they decide to tie themselves to a House. In fact, if not for New Avalon ordering a planet to trade in D-bills, there's no reason why they'd even consider accepting those. A fully self-sustaining ecosystem could well run on Remagencoin or Kathilcoin, if not for the need for interstellar communications.

[massey]

The worth of money is entirely in who is willing to accept it, and acceptance is tied to what the receiver thinks he can get for it. The C-bill is paramount because all nations, and many if not most planets can supply themselves with all other resources, with the exception of HPG communications. The universal necessity of paying Comstar aside, there is no reason why anyone would even bother to give you a clipped cent for your House scrip. (Try paying off your local grocer in say, Thai baht. Even in our world where forex is much easier and really all he needs to do is go down to the bank and change it, your grocer is more likely to tell you to shove your baht where the sun don't shine.)

From a merc's perspective, therefore, C-bills are an absolute necessity unless they decide to tie themselves to a House. In fact, if not for New Avalon ordering a planet to trade in D-bills, there's no reason why they'd even consider accepting those. A fully self-sustaining ecosystem could well run on Remagencoin or Kathilcoin, if not for the need for interstellar communications.

You probably can't pay your grocer in baht, but you could probably find people in other countries willing to accept dollars or euros.  D-bills are going to be stable enough that people will accept them.  C-bills are more easily transferable, sure, but you're normally only going to be changing your money over when you change employers.  That normally isn't so often that you can't make arrangements.  And even if you are changing employers that often, that's okay too because you'll come back around to this employer soon enough.

[Kidd]

You probably can't pay your grocer in baht, but you could probably find people in other countries willing to accept dollars or euros.  D-bills are going to be stable enough that people will accept them.  C-bills are more easily transferable, sure, but you're normally only going to be changing your money over when you change employers.  That normally isn't so often that you can't make arrangements.  And even if you are changing employers that often, that's okay too because you'll come back around to this employer soon enough.

The grocer analogy works like this: your local grocer will only trade in currency he believes in. Even with banking facilities he is unlikely to accept baht - he actually trades in what will be accepted by people he expects to pay, such as his suppliers and other vendors around him. Ultimately, the biggest vendor is the government who levies fees and taxes, so the accepted currency is usually what the government accepts.

A self-sustaining planet is like the grocer's neighbourhood supply chain, only worse because of the interstellar gulf. The planet could in fact issue its own Remagencoin or Kathilcoin, because the currency mostly circulates internally. They can theoretically survive with little need for interaction with other systems*. Being a minimum 14 days' travel away from any other human settlement is strong reason for them to do it. What I was saying in a somewhat roundabout way is that the reason why they don't is because 1) Davion would order them to use D-bills, and 2) Comstar would not accept planetary scrip.

Take away both those certainties however, and nothing stops a world from imposing its own currency. Which is why the post-Blackout mercs using commodities like ammunition and perhaps armor plate is absolutely believable, to me.

*incidentally, another feature of a feudal society

[Daemion]

Pedantic but I feel relevant quibble:  I was saying there would never *be* a call to ignore, not that there'd be no consequences for ignoring it.  Your neighbors aren't going to ask you for help, because if they do you just grab whatever it is they ask you to help defend.  When they cry foul you just appeal to the Ducal or higher authority: "Hey, they *asked* me to take care of it for them.  Since they can't defend it, the best way I can take care of it is to do so on a permanent basis.  *I* can defend it."  And remember, possession is 9/10ths of the law.  Once you grab it, it's basically yours.

That's the one thing about the BTu that we don't get to see a lot of - politics on the local level. Seriously, every planet, so far, is it's culturally stylistic version of Mayberry.

But, in a feudal set-up, neo or otherwise, the game of thrones is apt and ever-present, and very complex. You have honorable people who will go above and beyond what is required of them, aiding and making allies because it's the right thing to do. Then, you have the people aspiring for that next better position because there's nothing else better to do. Every planet that has to deal with nobility as the primary version of government should be reading like every bad fantasy novel and anime, with some villain posing as an ally to some other folks, yet privately scheming to hire away some of their soldiers at an appropriate moment so that they can step in and save the day and show off that they are capable where the other guy isn't.

It really, really should.

But again, even if there were such a call, with respect to mercenaries:  How you gonna force them to do what's not in their contract?

You can't. But! If you're the noble that hired a force for local defense, and you've spent time with them, you can probably gauge whether they'll be open to a quick and dirty subcontract for just that moment. If the merc unit is somewhat noble, they may do it.

And, then, there's also the long game that we're missing. This mercenary trade has been going on for centuries. Some small bands might fail simply because they're no longer truly mercenary. They landed a nice little defense contract, and kept it up for a couple generations, and at some point become part of the lord's personal retinue, dropping any pretenses of being a mercenary unit.

They've effectively gone native, and they're in a secure enough position that they don't have to worry about being tossed out.

[glitterboy2098]

Tai Dai, i'd be more accepting of your "nobles can take anything they want from rivals through main force, with no fear of repercussion by their peers and liege lords" stance if you can point me to a place in the setting where they have done just that. because everything i've found so far points to nobles in every successor state scheming because they can't just drop in with troops and take what they want, and being deathly afraid of the social and political backlash from their peers and liege lords should their various small and hidden uses of force will be found out.. a stance that would not happen if they knew the higher lords would just look the other way.

[Kit deSummersville]

Pfff, Duke Ricol invade another nation without approval from his superiors, failed and still managed to work his way up the ranks of power.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

...actually the Successor States have usually maintained an average of 100+ active Mech regts, and systems with more than one habitable planet are canonically rare.

I said it upthread and I'm repeating here, the number of active Mechs or combat forces not stated in the books can't be a significant proportion of the stated forces, perhaps not more than 20%, in order to avoid throwing the universe into the sink at Ludicrous Speed. If 36 Mechs land on a planet and fight 36 Mechs plus an additional 7 from the miltiia, that's doable. Its not doable when 36 Mechs fight 36 Mechs and another 36 "off the books".

The one exception I'd make to the rule is infantry.

Where I was saying I feel there'd be collectively more mechs and mechwarriors outside service to Great Houses than those within, I wasn't saying that once an invader dispatches the defending House garrison there'd then be an even larger number of mechs in private armies onworld after that.

I was simply saying I feel there's more mechs and mechwarriors in all the private armies added together than in the great house armies.

Some 3025 numbers as example:
House Kurita has just over 400 worlds, and control of 80 mech regiments in its House Army (13 mercenary, and 67 DCMS mech regiments).  That leaves 80 worlds with a House Army mech garrison, and over 300 without one.
House Davion has almost 500 worlds, and control of 110 mech regiments in its House Army (30 mercenary, and 72 AFFS mech regiments).  3025 deployment puts many multiregiment merc outfits all on one world, but even if they were spread out more than canonically accurate to say no more than 1 mech regiment per world, that still means almost 300 worlds again are undefended by House Mech forces.

The two military powerhouses of 3025 leave very roughly 2 thirds of their worlds undefended by House Mech forces.   Granted, there's probably some House conventional forces on many, perhaps even most of those worlds.  The mech-centric nature of the game leaves that detail unspecified.  But since it IS a mech centric universe, to me it stands to reason that the petty nobility on those 2/3rds of the worlds in those empires want some mechs precisely because their respective House Lords haven't bothered to post any there.  Protection from mech-armed Pirates is a primary reason to want/need mechs in your own private army.  Keeping up with House Jones is a secondary motivation: once they have Mechs... you'll need some too to remain at political parity with them once they possess mechs and mechwarriors.

For mercs, most of the inner sphere is fertile ground for low-level warfare that's literally beneath the notice or care of the 5 Great Houses.  So long as the players on any given world don't let their wars make the respective House Lord begin to care, there's really nothing sociologically stopping them from warring upon each other, which means there may not be work for mercs on every single planet, but there's enough of these planets that there's always work somewhere.