Author Topic: Jumping to abandoned stars  (Read 5086 times)

Archangel

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #30 on: 19 February 2018, 06:24:47 »
There are many instances of JumpShips using abandoned stars to move between stars from military units/pirates/mercenary units trying to avoid detection so as to launch a surprise attack on an enemy (ranging from simple raids to full-blow invasions such as Operation RAT) to smugglers avoiding border patrols to anybody who wants to move between systems while limiting the chance of being detected such as Duke Michael Hasek-Davion's secret visit to Sian.
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Garrand

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #31 on: 19 February 2018, 11:38:08 »
There are many instances of JumpShips using abandoned stars to move between stars from military units/pirates/mercenary units trying to avoid detection so as to launch a surprise attack on an enemy (ranging from simple raids to full-blow invasions such as Operation RAT) to smugglers avoiding border patrols to anybody who wants to move between systems while limiting the chance of being detected such as Duke Michael Hasek-Davion's secret visit to Sian.

Keep in mind too that the above was likely fleet actions. So if lets say one of the jumpships doesn't make it to the destination then someone can be sent back in a week or so to conduct a rescue operation. It's equally possible if merchants are doing the same thing, the go in small fleets with agreements to report misjumps or failed jumps (in fact, that may actually be the law in many states!). Otherwise if they are doing it solo, then it is at their own risk IMHO.

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #32 on: 19 February 2018, 17:58:48 »
Keep in mind too that the above was likely fleet actions. So if lets say one of the jumpships doesn't make it to the destination then someone can be sent back in a week or so to conduct a rescue operation. It's equally possible if merchants are doing the same thing, the go in small fleets with agreements to report misjumps or failed jumps (in fact, that may actually be the law in many states!). Otherwise if they are doing it solo, then it is at their own risk IMHO.

Damon.

makes sense. i'd imagine there are well traveled routes, strings of stars acting like highways, that form the basis for most major travel. your destination not on one of those routes? well you follow the route as far as you can before going 'off route'.

this would especially be important if you'd have to go across a sparsely settled region. so you'd stick to the defined routes, so that another ship will pass by sooner rather than later, and try to form up convoys that are all going in the same direction.

Daemion

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #33 on: 19 February 2018, 21:45:01 »
Actually, this brings up a question for me about Jumpship routes in general - how many jumpships actually are long-distance journeyman types which run long routes between stars like a train along its route?

How many more simply run the (Insert System A) and (Insert System B) route which is no more than 30 LY apart, and that's all they do? More like Air Liners running between two cities all day long, back and forth, back and forth, ad-nauseum, as the jump recharge will allow?

How much of civilian and industrial Jump Traffic is simply lining up all the different lay-overs in each system in a string and hopping on the next bus to Albuquerque?

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Daemion

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #34 on: 19 February 2018, 22:05:22 »
And, one other question to ask: Salvage Operations.

If some routes are common through certain uninhabited star systems, and you get breakdowns, I imagine salvage operations for the materials of that core at the very least would be profitable for someone with the equipment.

It also makes me wonder how many graveyards are out there for an ambitious explorer group to find.

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Colt Ward

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #35 on: 20 February 2018, 01:10:06 »
Actually, this brings up a question for me about Jumpship routes in general - how many jumpships actually are long-distance journeyman types which run long routes between stars like a train along its route?

How many more simply run the (Insert System A) and (Insert System B) route which is no more than 30 LY apart, and that's all they do? More like Air Liners running between two cities all day long, back and forth, back and forth, ad-nauseum, as the jump recharge will allow?

How much of civilian and industrial Jump Traffic is simply lining up all the different lay-overs in each system in a string and hopping on the next bus to Albuquerque?

From what it sounds like in fiction, jumpship travel patterns are more like the triangle trade during the Age of Sail.  The Chaos Irregulars out on the edge of Lyran space (End game at Engadine?) talk about the trade between Mainstreet and other worlds in the region.
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Frabby

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #36 on: 20 February 2018, 05:17:23 »
Actually, this brings up a question for me about Jumpship routes in general - how many jumpships actually are long-distance journeyman types which run long routes between stars like a train along its route?

How many more simply run the (Insert System A) and (Insert System B) route which is no more than 30 LY apart, and that's all they do? More like Air Liners running between two cities all day long, back and forth, back and forth, ad-nauseum, as the jump recharge will allow?

How much of civilian and industrial Jump Traffic is simply lining up all the different lay-overs in each system in a string and hopping on the next bus to Albuquerque?
This is drifting off-topic, but it seems as good a chance as any to repeat my long-standing theory that the lion's share of JumpShips in the Inner Sphere - private, House, ComStar - is run on a "bus lines" schedule. This creates a reasonably reliable transportation network across the Inner Sphere and allows for docking hardpoints to be pre-booked in advance so that you can plan a command circuit line well in advance using commercial JumpShips.
Only a small percentage of JumpShips would be the free-roaming vessels that we typically encounter in fiction.
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Nightlord01

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #37 on: 20 February 2018, 07:15:08 »
This is drifting off-topic, but it seems as good a chance as any to repeat my long-standing theory that the lion's share of JumpShips in the Inner Sphere - private, House, ComStar - is run on a "bus lines" schedule. This creates a reasonably reliable transportation network across the Inner Sphere and allows for docking hardpoints to be pre-booked in advance so that you can plan a command circuit line well in advance using commercial JumpShips.
Only a small percentage of JumpShips would be the free-roaming vessels that we typically encounter in fiction.

Yep, makes sense. Although fiction treats those free roaming vessels as more akin to charter buses. I'd say routine jump patterns would be a must, noting how many planets seem to require food importation to survive.

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #38 on: 20 February 2018, 10:06:46 »
Most likely it's a mix consisting MOSTLY of regular circular runs between 2-5 stops, some longer circuits with more a lot more regular stops (and possibly an annual detour for another marginal stop or two), and a relative pittance of freelance jumpers selling collar space to the highest bidder.  The last of these are the most interesting, are the most frequently employed to move significant House or mercenary forces, and are therefore featured most often in the novels as anything more than background traffic.  We don't read a lot about family sedans going to and from work in modern fiction, but they're probably the single most prevalent traffic item on the roads.  It's only if/when something unusual happens (generally involving a larger commercial or mass passenger transport vehicle) that it is brought to our attention.

Daemion

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #39 on: 20 February 2018, 14:04:56 »
This is drifting off-topic....

Not necessarily. If a lot of the Jumpships only transit between two systems, then the desire for running through uninhabited systems should be equally rare, since only journeyman starships would be the ones looking at taking that chance.

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Daemion

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #40 on: 20 February 2018, 14:05:58 »
From what it sounds like in fiction, jumpship travel patterns are more like the triangle trade during the Age of Sail.  The Chaos Irregulars out on the edge of Lyran space (End game at Engadine?) talk about the trade between Mainstreet and other worlds in the region.

Please elaborate on this for me, because I'm not exactly familiar with either.

Thanks.
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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #41 on: 20 February 2018, 14:30:34 »
Please elaborate on this for me, because I'm not exactly familiar with either.

Thanks.

In a "triangle trade" scenario, a ship gets Cargo A from Country A, hauls it to Country B and exchanges it for Cargo B, and then takes Cargo B to Country C, where it trades it for Cargo C that Country A wants. 

In the classic colonial-era mercantilist model, ships carried slaves from Africa to the Caribbean, traded them for sugar, then took the sugar to the North American colonies and traded it for cotton and tobacco, then hauled that back to Europe to sell for cash, a portion of which was used to buy more slaves to start the cycle over.  Once transatlantic slavery was abolished, manufactured goods from Europe replaced the slaves in the equation.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #42 on: 20 February 2018, 14:51:59 »
The one that I sort of recall being laid out was discussed in Endgame at Engadine as I said in a previous post.

IIRC the 3 world route mentioned was-

Swartklip- Heavy industry world, producing all sorts of good to include orbital factories & DS/JS slips
Elume- Agro world, primarily exports to Swartklip which focuses on production rather than self-sufficient food production
Main Street or Engadine- Mines & light industry, fills in the gaps for Swartklip's production.  Engadine is also a minor tourist destination due to hunting the local monster- who hunts back.

By the map, it also looks like Main Street might be a transit point into any tramps that wander into that area of the periphery- perhaps headed for the Rim Collection or other places out there like Kore.

The questionable jumpship captain also seemed to mention a trade route that went through Neerabup that maybe connected to Inarcs- which could also be a destination for electronics and machinery from Swartklip that would be put into building war material.

I think the Sarna Supremacy was also supposed to be a example of 'triangle trade' which is why those three worlds formed a union.
Colt Ward
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Iceweb

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #43 on: 20 February 2018, 16:56:00 »
I wasn't thinking triangle trade but I figured it was close enough. 
You are very unlikely to have an exclusive trade agreement with anyone. 
Any planet can far outproduce the capacity for a jumpship to carry the goods. 
If a route can be run the shortest jumping through an abandoned system, and you can get enough other captains, who are willing to run the same route; it seems reasonable that you will have rescue if you break down on the route. 
The issue seems to be setting things up, which seems like something that governments would do to assure the markets and taxes and then put up the call for ships willing to move the goods. 

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #44 on: 22 February 2018, 01:35:14 »
After hundreds of years of star travel, I'm thinking there are longstanding industrial giants in the Jumpshipping industry, and a lot of exclusives for hauling cargo are the norm nearly 700 years after the fact.

For that matter, you wouldn't really need an exclusive contract to know that when you show up at Port A in Oceana that there will be people lined up to dock onto your ship for the ride to Port Z in the next system over on your route.

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Frabby

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #45 on: 22 February 2018, 05:57:27 »
After hundreds of years of star travel, I'm thinking there are longstanding industrial giants in the Jumpshipping industry, and a lot of exclusives for hauling cargo are the norm nearly 700 years after the fact.
I think that kind of logistics context may have been one of the first victims of the Succession Wars, which specifically aimed at scorched earth in this regard. And then rampant lostech would have created one shakeup to the situation after another, as more and more ships, industries and entire planets were lost, creating a very dynamic situation (as in all comes crashing down and nothing can be relied upon).
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Mendrugo

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #46 on: 22 February 2018, 08:41:01 »
MechWarrior 1st Edition mentioned several interstellar trading cartels that have JumpShip fleets of significant size - Ceres Metals is one.  Syngard is another.  But even these large cartels don't have more than 30 or so ships. 

The Lyran Free Traders Association is comprised mostly of the BattleTech equivalent of tramp freighters - lone wolves that use their single JumpShip to trade in circuitous routes that may have them returning to a given world once every six months.  (There are references in the fiction to "the next trader isn't scheduled to visit for half a year.")
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #47 on: 22 February 2018, 11:20:09 »
Even a remote situation like that has "regular" traffic, although at 6 month intervals.  You're not the only ship that comes through on a long circular route, but possibly the only one for the next 6 months.  If you break down in the uninhabited system that you and the other ship(s) on the circuit need to traverse, you're going to have to sit and live off your supplies for 6 months until that next ship on the route or some other random traveler passes through, but you're not dead.

The planet you're expected to arrive in will know something is amiss when you don't show up 2-5 days after you're due, and will pass word along if they have HPG capability.  If they don't, then the other ship on your run will either find out when they show up in the uninhabited system where you broke down and receive your radio hail, or else when they arrive at the planet you were destined for, find out that you're missing, and then either head back a jump to search for you or carry word on to their next stop, which DOES have an HPG transmitter.

Basically, a jumpship, the dropship(s) it's hauling, and all of their crews and cargos are far too valuable NOT to keep track of, or spend an incredible amount of effort to recover.  If it doesn't show up, somebody is very certainly going to start searching.  If they can't find you after backtracking along your route, hunting for debris, messages, or other signs of a problem, and then carefully considering where else you could have gone, then they'll eventually write it off as another mysterious misjump or possible hijacking incident.  You're in little danger of being permanently abandoned along a known travel route.

Colt Ward

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Re: Jumping to abandoned stars
« Reply #48 on: 22 February 2018, 13:19:09 »
I think a lot of this can be inferred but since it does not focus on Mechs we do not hear much about it- after all the story does not resolve around intrepid Sea Fox merchants having to put up with warrior oversight plying the trade lanes of the IS.

On a bit of a wandering . . .

What are some IRL ship stories that could play well with BT lore in campaigns?

I think one of the easiest would be a 'Mary Celeste' story hook where the players find a Merchant class JS abandoned in a system with the dropships attached but missing a lifeboat?

Any famous misjumps or missing ships, like the one carrying a pair of Davion heirs during the formation of the Star League could become a 'Flying Dutchman' or 'Baychimo' that others site.  In the later's case they could board but always to the klaxons of a imminent jump . .

I honestly wonder if the BC story about the pre-modern jumpship Aquarius found by salvagers was to be something like the Octavious or Baychimo.
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