Author Topic: Who killed Morgan?  (Read 30114 times)

StCptMara

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #60 on: 20 April 2011, 03:15:08 »
Kali....I had not thought of. The poison was a neurotoxin, as well. While it was only found on worlds in the LC/DC,
I could see Thuggees knowing of it.

Of course, another possibility could be: the individual was a Mask sleeper agent, who got activated due to atomated
triggers. We know Romano had done that sort of thing.
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Handofbane

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #61 on: 20 April 2011, 07:36:41 »
Kali as an option seems really questionable.  We know she only shows subtlety and discretion leading up to any kills she arranges, then very proudly proclaims credit in the act itself as well as afterward.  To top that off, any of her Thuggee agents would know exactly who they were working for - and we have some insight from the novels from Penrose's perspective that seems not to indicate any kind of fanatical religious devotion behind the attack (while the idea he was WoB is borderline on being religious motivation, there is no question Thuggees serving Kali view her as the living avatar of a goddess, and any murders they commit in her name earn a better afterlife).

From a technical standpoint, Kali would be possible, but looking at the means/method and what little we know from a meta-perspective, it seems much less likely.

StCptMara

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #62 on: 20 April 2011, 08:12:59 »
What about the idea of a deep and forgotten sleeper?
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #63 on: 20 April 2011, 10:23:59 »
Someone who wasn't even activated on purpose?  That actually makes a great deal of sense, given the big swirl of confusion around the whole event.
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greatsarcasmo

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #64 on: 20 April 2011, 14:45:14 »
Someone who wasn't even activated on purpose?  That actually makes a great deal of sense, given the big swirl of confusion around the whole event.
Hmmm, like a "here is a list of targets, if you ever get withing x KM of them, kill 'em?" type thing?
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A. Lurker

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #65 on: 20 April 2011, 15:54:47 »
Hmmm, like a "here is a list of targets, if you ever get withing x KM of them, kill 'em?" type thing?

Alternatively, maybe a simple transmission error. Given Mike Stackpole's established fondness for convoluted code-and-secret-message schemes, somebody could have finally simply slipped and sent the wrong order by mistake... ;)

Fallen_Raven

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #66 on: 20 April 2011, 16:23:41 »
The most straightforward solution to the whole mess is that someone in the Katherine Stiener camp ordered the hit. Makes sense with her dislike of Victor and his supporters, she had her own high ranking officer around to try and take charge (we've seen that Katherine doesn't really care about chains of command), and she has a personal deal with Vlad in case things go south. And she may not have even given the order, it may have been one of the lesser psychos the followed her around.
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oldfart3025

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #67 on: 20 April 2011, 17:09:47 »

I still think Katherine had something to do with the hit. She was after power, and had her sights set on her father's realm with Victor out of the way.

Killing Morgan would have been one less asset for her brother to use against her. It was part of an overall scheme to neuter Victor.
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misterpants

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #68 on: 20 April 2011, 17:20:25 »
What do people make of the intro story to FM: Comstar? Trent Arian and Suzanne Mulvanery make a joke about Glengarry scotch (a poisoned bottle killed Morgan) right before their assasination.
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yergerjo

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #69 on: 20 April 2011, 18:05:10 »
I could see it as Nondi Steiner, helping Katherine prepare for her the inevitable conflict with Victor, remove one of V's big supporters and assets (and with XP) then there isn't that many big folks left in the AFFC with major XP.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #70 on: 20 April 2011, 18:09:28 »
What do people make of the intro story to FM: Comstar? Trent Arian and Suzanne Mulvanery make a joke about Glengarry scotch (a poisoned bottle killed Morgan) right before their assasination.

Glengarry Reserve was a label that enjoyed widespread popularity across both halves of the FedCom.  It would have been more noteworthy if it was a more obscure drink.
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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #71 on: 20 April 2011, 18:21:55 »
What about the idea of a deep and forgotten sleeper?

Hmm... In the aftermath of the Fourth Succession War, ComStar seeks to limit Hanse Davion's ambition. With that in mind, they activate an agent to assassinate Morgan Hasek-Davion, one of his best military minds and still close to the throne of the Federated Commonwealth.

However, with the assassination occurring thirty years later, one can only imagine that the athletic and therefore youthful assassin Penrose was born in 3029 and the sole intent to kill Morgan was implanted into his brain at birth!

Prove me wrong, folks. Prove me wrong.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #72 on: 20 April 2011, 18:48:52 »
Hmm... In the aftermath of the Fourth Succession War, ComStar seeks to limit Hanse Davion's ambition. With that in mind, they activate an agent to assassinate Morgan Hasek-Davion, one of his best military minds and still close to the throne of the Federated Commonwealth.

However, with the assassination occurring thirty years later, one can only imagine that the athletic and therefore youthful assassin Penrose was born in 3029 and the sole intent to kill Morgan was implanted into his brain at birth!

Prove me wrong, folks. Prove me wrong.

It was actually Dan Allard.  He was getting revenge on Morgan for taking the last basket of onion rings.
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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #73 on: 20 April 2011, 21:05:29 »
Quote
Glengarry Reserve was a label that enjoyed widespread popularity across both halves of the FedCom.  It would have been more noteworthy if it was a more obscure drink.

However, it's the drink that Victor had his MI5 agents steal from Katherine during the Star League conference as a going-away present, and the full details of Morgan's death were never made common knowledge.

The link is significant, but not definitive.

Sun-Tzu makes more sense than Word of Blake as a suspect, but then again the Word of Blake is not exactly known for rational behaviour, either.
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Maelwys

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #74 on: 20 April 2011, 22:18:56 »
What do people make of the intro story to FM: Comstar? Trent Arian and Suzanne Mulvanery make a joke about Glengarry scotch (a poisoned bottle killed Morgan) right before their assasination.

However, it's the drink that Victor had his MI5 agents steal from Katherine during the Star League conference as a going-away present, and the full details of Morgan's death were never made common knowledge.

The link is significant, but not definitive.

Sun-Tzu makes more sense than Word of Blake as a suspect, but then again the Word of Blake is not exactly known for rational behaviour, either.

I dunno. Its a popular drink, and IIRC, it was known to be Morgan's favorite and only stolen by Victor's spies as a exercise.

The joke is also blown out of proportion.

Quote from: Field Manual ComStar p. 4
As the vehicle sped down the tree-lined boulevard, Mulvanery leaned forward. "Drink?"
"You're a bad influence, but you twisted my arm," Arian said. "Not the Glengarry Black Label though." The edge of a smile twisted his lips.

Hardly conclusive, and barely sinister.

StCptMara

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #75 on: 21 April 2011, 00:04:02 »
However, it's the drink that Victor had his MI5 agents steal from Katherine during the Star League conference as a going-away present, and the full details of Morgan's death were never made common knowledge.


Wait a minute...Do we know if the bottle that morgan drank from, on the eve of the actual commencement of operations,
was that bottle? Is it possible that Penrose was a red herring, and the bottle was actually planted to kill Katherine?
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AeroJock

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #76 on: 21 April 2011, 00:56:41 »
The Trent Arian quote is definitely suggestive...I like that as a possibility. Definitely not any sort of evidence mind you, but it does fit somewhat.

Maelwys

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #77 on: 21 April 2011, 01:00:34 »
I think the bottle or the pressurized transfer system were poisoned, but it happened on board the ship, since the bottle was 3/4ths full when Morgan took the poisoned drink, so it couldn't have been poisoned ahead of time.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #78 on: 21 April 2011, 01:12:13 »
I think the bottle or the pressurized transfer system were poisoned, but it happened on board the ship, since the bottle was 3/4ths full when Morgan took the poisoned drink, so it couldn't have been poisoned ahead of time.

That, in fact, was one of the clues that tipped of the other commanders that it was poison and not simply a heart attack or other medical condition, because a new bottle had been left in his office.
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Fallen_Raven

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #79 on: 21 April 2011, 01:54:04 »
I think the bottle or the pressurized transfer system were poisoned, but it happened on board the ship, since the bottle was 3/4ths full when Morgan took the poisoned drink, so it couldn't have been poisoned ahead of time.

I'm pretty sure it was the transfer system. I don't think they found any in the bottle, but the system did have it. Which makes sense if it happened in space. Poisoning the bottle would mean that some of it would float out into the room, but the system could be hit just by pumping in from one container to another.
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Niopsian

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #80 on: 21 April 2011, 12:05:52 »
What do people make of the intro story to FM: Comstar? Trent Arian and Suzanne Mulvanery make a joke about Glengarry scotch (a poisoned bottle killed Morgan) right before their assasination.

I always found that puzzling. Arian wasn't a Sixth of Juner, and while he was a part of Blake's Wrath prior to the schism all the accounts of him seemed to describe him as a forthright type of guy. Joking around about the Glengarry seemed out of character.

I also liked to think that Arian going boom was because Victor had convinced himself that WoB was responsible for Morgan's death, and he was flexing his newly acquired Precentor Martial muscles. I'm sure Victoria Pardeau would have been happy to help him out...


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Maelwys

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #81 on: 21 April 2011, 15:16:55 »
I always found that puzzling. Arian wasn't a Sixth of Juner, and while he was a part of Blake's Wrath prior to the schism all the accounts of him seemed to describe him as a forthright type of guy. Joking around about the Glengarry seemed out of character.

He also wasn't in control of ROM at the time.  I've always taken that statement to just be either "I don't like the drink," or "I'm making a (possibly) tasteless joke about a bad thing happening." I mean, there are real life examples of people making jokes about something without being involved. Its entirely possible that just the day before ROM let everyone know that they just found out how Morgan actually died so its fresh.

Kiesel

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #82 on: 03 May 2011, 07:40:31 »
An important consideration is that the event was written during the run up for the Fed-Com Civil war arc, and long before Wizkids enlarged the WoB Jihad arc into an all consuming bloodbath to set the stage for their Dark Age storyline.

Also remember that the WoB Jihad was set off by the collapse of the second star league.  I don't think sabotaging the first campaign of the new SLDF would be high on their priority list.

The kuritans had the opportunity, but I can't see the kuritans sabotaging their own revenge against the smoke jaguars, especially when they have a vested interest in NOT pissing off VSD who is a political dream come true of a first prince.

While the capcon had the motive, their opportunity is questionable.  Sure they would love to weaken the capellan march, but even with their enemies weakened by the clans and fresh imports from the FWL, they had no hope of taking back their worlds from a united commonwealth.  Sun-Tsu had no way of knowing before bulldog left for huntress that katherine was about to cause a civil war.

From what I remember, the book seemed to pretty heavily hint that this was a botched attempt by katherine to implicate the kuritans. 
Victor was shaping up to be the most pro-kurita archon/prince in many generations.  If the frame had been successful, it would have the triple effect of removing one of Victor's strongest supporters and advisers, further alienating him from the kuritan border marches as well as many elements of AFFC, and putting the loyalty of the capellan march into question.  Even a lack of confirmation that it wasn't the kuritans would work nearly as well.
Remember that Katherine was in the midst of seizing power while bulldog was en-route.  The timing with the assassination seems a bit to good for it to be anyone but her orders IMO.  No one else would have been in position to exploit his death for some time afterward, while katherine's plan was already in motion before his body was cold.
« Last Edit: 08 May 2011, 06:32:46 by Kiesel »

Handofbane

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #83 on: 04 May 2011, 13:35:54 »
The kuritans had the opportunity, but I can't see the kuritans sabotaging their own revenge against the smoke jaguars, especially when they have a vested interest in NOT pissing off VSD who is a political dream come true of a first prince.
Except for, you know, the Black Dragons who were willing to not only piss VSD off, but piss off the Coordinator himself by attempting to kill Omi and Victor on Luthien.
Quote
From what I remember, the book seemed to pretty heavily hint that this was a botched attempt by katherine to implicate the kuritans. 
Victor was shaping up to be the most pro-kurita archon/prince in many generations.  If the frame had been successful, it would have the triple effect of removing one of Victor's strongest supporters and advisers, further alienating him from the kuritan border marches as well as many elements of AFFC, and putting the loyalty of the capellan march into question.  Even a lack of confirmation that it wasn't the kuritans would work nearly as well.
Remember that Katherine was in the midst of seizing power while bulldog was en-route.  The timing with the assassination seems a bit to good for it to be anyone but her orders IMO.  No one else would have been in position to exploit his death for some time afterward, while katherine's plan was already in motion before his body was cold.
Not discounting Katherine as a possiblity, but whoever was responsible would have had to give the order and insert their agent before Serpent left its rallying point to gather all the units before heading out toward the periphery border.

Fallen_Raven

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #84 on: 04 May 2011, 13:51:51 »
Not discounting Katherine as a possiblity, but whoever was responsible would have had to give the order and insert their agent before Serpent left its rallying point to gather all the units before heading out toward the periphery border.
Well, Katherine did call for the conference that started the whole thing, and did push for the Smoke Jaguars to be the Clan they moved against. And if Task Force Serpent failed without Morgan, she still had the advantage of Vlad being in her corner. Really from her (quite possibly psychopathic) perspective things looked quite good.
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Doug Glendower

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #85 on: 06 May 2011, 16:40:47 »
Fake Thomas Marik: He doesn't trust Hasek Davion to run the op honorably, and the next in line is someone who has to look much better for the job, Ariana. He even could tell Arian, explaining the quote.

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #86 on: 06 May 2011, 18:19:18 »
Quote
Well, Katherine did call for the conference that started the whole thing, and did push for the Smoke Jaguars to be the Clan they moved against.

Actually, Katherine tried for the Jade Falcons. Rather half-heartedly because of her alliance with Vlad; had the Falcons been hit by the SLDF she would have been left with the Wolves on her border and precious few reasons to not attack her secret lover/ally Vlad immediately thereafter. If she could have wrangled a way to get rid of the Falcons without risking that she may have taken it; as it was, the Jaguars were the perfect distraction.

Quote
Fake Thomas Marik: He doesn't trust Hasek Davion to run the op honorably, and the next in line is someone who has to look much better for the job, Ariana. He even could tell Arian, explaining the quote.

Wholly unsupported by the text, especially with Morgan's reputation for honourable conduct and respect throughout the Inner sphere; also by this stage Thomas Halas is not exactly dancing to the Word's tune in perfect step.
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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #87 on: 08 May 2011, 16:51:37 »
I can't help but wonder if there's a missing piece of the puzzle that would make the assassination make perfect sense, like Morgan being involved in a plot to murder Katrina or something else that would put a giant target on his back.

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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #88 on: 09 May 2011, 19:53:31 »
I killed Morgan, okay?!?  He had it coming!  He took the last Oreo, and didn't even offer to buy more!
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Re: Who killed Morgan?
« Reply #89 on: 01 February 2018, 15:38:17 »
Sorry for Necro.

Reading through Twilight of the Clans myself and took to the internet to see if there was ever an answer to who pinched Morgan. This specific thread was all that came up, maybe there is a newer one on this subject I've missed?

My gut tells me Morgan did it himself. All sorts of allusion and foreshadowing in Exodus Road and Grave Covenant of Morgan acting oddly from Andrew's perspective, and thinking fatalistically (from his own). Still reading Sword and Fire to see what comes of it and for a reason since he doesn't seem to be suicidal. One thought is that he saw it as the last catalyst needed to fire up the task force to take the fight to the clans. He also didn't have much respect from the various task force subcommanders, all who were debating orders like a "quilting club" as he put it. Perhaps he saw them more likely to completely obey/respect Ariana, the leader of the group most associated with the original star league, and that his death would benefit the campaign more than his continued leadership.

He also had not just a letter ready in case he should die, he had all of his operational orders, along with a personal message to Ariana, and an actual package for his family. I understand foreseeing the possibility of not making it and preparing your second in command, but to go out and purchase or find something emotionally meaningful to give to your wife and soulmate as a gift is something done more when you have some knowledge of your imminent death, rather than the standard battlefield risk every soldier faces.

Here are a few more of my thoughts as to why it was Morgan:

First off, the existence and presence of this Nekekami squad was known to only Theodore Kurita, Morgan, and the squads themselves. The ciphers and codes to activate them only known to Nekekami leadership, Morgan, and the squad.

The Nekekami acted on orders received far into the course of the journey. I doubt even HPG could have gotten such a coded pulse to the exact system where the spirit cat got his orders. Even if the speed was there to get it on time, delays like the stopover for water, the reverse jump after kicking the Ghost Bears around, and the drop off to maroon the Ghost Bears who would not become bondsmen; would have meant such a pulse had came and went by the time the ship reached that system. They could theoretically have continued sending the same message for weeks or months, but that would have represented a tremendous operational risk, so the orders had to come from within the fleet.

I have to reject outright that the Nekekami would double cross their employer. They view themselves as the foremost elite intrigue unit of the inner sphere, probably justifiably, and to even claim an association with them when there isn't one can likely get you killed. (See the books of the early days when Theodore hinted that he employed the Nekekami and they left a mask that could easily have killed him, needles laced with neuro-poison) They view themselves with the same sort of honor and pride that all the elite merc units of the IS do like the Eridani Light Horse, the Highlanders, the Dragoons, etc. Professional pride and courtesy dictate that you don't turn on your employer, even for a better offer.

If they were working for their employer when they murdered Morgan, than they could only be serving either Theodore or Morgan. Considering Theodore was making great strides in bringing his realm into cooperation, and that he was as focused on the clans as the greatest threat as Victor and Morgan, I can't see him doing this. It wouldn't serve him, even if he would stoop to the level of ordering hits, and as there are no shortage of competent generals in the Fedcom, any hit would have been done at higher echelons, victor would have been the most probable target.

If it had to be someone employing the nekekami, and it wasn't Theodore, than it had to be Morgan. I am just waiting/hoping for "the why" as I read further.