Author Topic: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision  (Read 16604 times)

wackrabbit

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #30 on: 07 February 2011, 09:21:54 »
I want all three modes.
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FedCom4Ever

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #31 on: 09 February 2011, 01:06:06 »
You know it was easy to have the LAM's look like mechs that were already in production back in the '80's. Phoenix Hawk mini= Phoenix Hawk airmech. Now none of those LAMs look like any mech in production.

If I was Mike Noe, I think I might try building one LAM in all 3 modes and see how it sells. Whichever one of the 3 modes sells might give you an indication of how the whole line might go. If the airmech sells well but the others don't, then just slap it in the archive. Sometimes putting something in the archive increases demand. It's like putting it in the Disney Vault.  :)

I would buy all 3 modes if they were available. In the likely hood only one out of three modes were going to be built, I would buy the airmech.

I would not buy one mech at regular scale and the other versions at Battleforce scale.
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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #32 on: 09 February 2011, 09:01:20 »
I hate the vault,there are many archived I want but won't get because of the price and length of time it takes to get them. I understand and accept the reason for it,doesn't mean I have to like it.
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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #33 on: 09 February 2011, 14:18:17 »
would your plans work for the Mk I models in 3085 though?  they were much more diligently designed to ensure a proper transformation, which means that some parts for a mini the way you were describingwould be in two different forms for two different modes.
I got the idea while staring at them.  it's the reason I realized the fuselage would need to be in two pieces.

If you look closely you will notice some similarities in the transformations of all of them.  From battlemech to airmech mode the torso hunches forward, the nose comes to cover the front of the cockpit and the wings are brought into position, the arms and everything below the waist stay pretty much the same so the same limbs could be used for both modes.  Going to fighter mode the arms and legs fold up into the fuselage, the engines on the legs are moved into position and the guns on the arms are placed on the bottom of the fighter; these are the bits I was referring to as the lower fuselage (though admittedly there are some pieces that fit on the leading edge wing root and the tail section).  Much of the fuselage shape for the fighter is the same as that for the airmech mode, so again this part can be reused for two modes. 

The pieces don't have to fit all three modes, I am just pointing out that many of the pieces stay the same between two modes so you only have to add pieces for the third mode, and I was suggesting they take advantage of that fact by sculpting the two end modes and combining them to make the air mech mode.  At its basic, airmech mode is a fighter with arms and legs sticking out so if you sculpt the fighter to accept the battlemech limbs and let the rest of the pieces for the fighter mode cover those glue points if you are going for the fighter mode, then you can easily get the airmech mode without having to explicitly sculpt it.  Essentially you get three minis for the price of sculpting two.

Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #34 on: 09 February 2011, 18:19:29 »
I hate the vault,there are many archived I want but won't get because of the price and length of time it takes to get them. I understand and accept the reason for it,doesn't mean I have to like it.

Just so you know, a lot of the Archives minis are available from Ral Partha Europe...
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Col.Hengist

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #35 on: 09 February 2011, 18:47:37 »
isn't it about the same price to have them shipped to the US as buying the archived mechs?
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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #36 on: 09 February 2011, 18:53:01 »
isn't it about the same price to have them shipped to the US as buying the archived mechs?

no, the shipping rates are actually very reasonable.

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #37 on: 09 February 2011, 18:55:37 »
isn't it about the same price to have them shipped to the US as buying the archived mechs?

trust the people who posted about ral partha, they really are good, cheap and fast, on top of that their sculpts are far better than getting it from IWM
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Col.Hengist

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #38 on: 09 February 2011, 19:03:23 »
no kidding, i'll have to check it out then.
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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #39 on: 12 February 2011, 16:11:38 »
We had a good experience buying from Ral Partha Europe.  We just found about 6-7 minis we wanted that were archived here.  Then we definitely came out ahead, even with shipping. 

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #40 on: 12 February 2011, 22:37:25 »
All three modes would be nice, but airmech would be the ticket if it was only to be one.

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #41 on: 12 February 2011, 22:52:00 »
I Love it. Did you use rare earth magnets, or did you have 3 PXH's lying around to bash??
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« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 15:35:06 by Wolf72 »

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #42 on: 13 February 2011, 01:29:22 »
is that the head of a blood kite?

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #43 on: 13 February 2011, 13:32:15 »
I'd honestly like to see the Airmech model, first foremost and above all.

The other two are distant seconds. Of course, it all really depends on when the new rules are out in completion for LAM's.

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #44 on: 04 March 2011, 17:04:30 »
I like Lorcan and Birdofprey's ideas; one kit that makes all three.  If I have to pick just one it is obviously the air-mech mode. 
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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #45 on: 06 March 2011, 08:05:06 »
Either all three modes (released separately or as a 3-pack), or in a kit form that would allow you to pick what mode you assemble it in.
if that was done i would hope IWM would post a link to a site that sells rare earth magnets so you can use one fig all 3 modes

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #46 on: 06 March 2011, 14:26:50 »
Oh yeah, I had magnets in mind when I posted that :D
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Deathknight69

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #47 on: 06 March 2011, 16:30:57 »
I asked that earlier, lol...  :D
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Quote from: DarkSpade on August 10, 2022, 15:23:40
If you think about it, the perfect merc lives long enough to complete the objective, but not long enough to get paid.
Well, there's an Obi-Wan level point of view comment for you ...  xp
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 15:35:06 by Wolf72 »

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #48 on: 07 March 2011, 15:24:55 »
of course initial discussions are ongoing, but in my last chat with sawbones it is looking like if LAMs are funded it will be a two pack of battlemech and airmech modes...

oh and if you want to put your name in the rolodex for when fan funding opens up, go here.  you don't have to pledge specific amounts yet
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,2415.0.html
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aka_mythos

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #49 on: 17 March 2011, 08:40:28 »
The idea presented originally was to do Battlemech modes in mech scale, and the other two modes in battleforce scale. I think you lose a lot interest doing it that way.

Maybe I misread this, but I recall somewhere that the OP mentioned having the goal of seeing the Shadowhawk, or some other almost LAM, be done as an LAM. I think that is too ambitious and that focussing on the three main ones would reduce the monetary burden of getting this project off the ground... from the estimated $5500-$6000 to $4500-$5000. Even if we got $5500 pledged, I think most people would rather see the main three done right than to see all four done almost right; that whatever money might go to the imaginary LAM, would be better spent on the improved quality of the three classic ones.

Lorcans and Birdofprey's ideas, I think is the best one. It shows a better way of minimizing costs without compromising on the consistency of the scale. I think people would be happier with this. Further I imagine it could be even more simplified to a (1) set of legs, (2) battlemech mode torso, (3) aerofighter mode top half, and (4) aerofighter bottom half...
Where:
1+2= Battlemech
2+3= Air-mech
3+4= Aerospace Fighter

So now you're talking about 4 half minis instead of three full minis. I think to most this is a more ideal approach, assuming we couldn't get full mech-scale sculpts in all three modes.

Also lets be honest between the Wasp and Stinger, no one would complain if they had the same sculpt for the legs. Just one more way costs could be mitigated.

of course initial discussions are ongoing, but in my last chat with sawbones it is looking like if LAMs are funded it will be a two pack of battlemech and airmech modes...
I dunno if I like that. Will they be available as individual miniatures as well?

As far as packaging, I the most ideal packaging is this:
...a 3 pack set, and have all 3 versions. Mech, Land-Air, and then Fighter mode!
Most would rather spend $30 per "mech" in all three modes, than to have to buy two separate sets. For example some people want to build a squadron of one particular LAM, and not everyone will be happy with the lumped in models.

Its easier to accept the nature of the beast, when it comes to LAMs, is that you need to get three minis to represent three distinct modes, than it is to say you have to buy this second set of three to get that one Air-mech model you need to go with the one Battlemech model you wanted.

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #50 on: 17 March 2011, 09:20:08 »
my goal is to fund all four LAMs simultaniously
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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #51 on: 17 March 2011, 10:30:33 »
my goal is to fund all four LAMs simultaniously
Do you push for all for even to the detriment of the project as a whole? You come off a bit stubborn. I'm saying IF you can't do all 4... wouldn't it be better to do the three that count, and to do them right?

It seems several people have presented better ideas than you originally proposed. Yet you seem stuck on doing it "your way." Hope for the best, but plan for contingencies and be open to better ideas.

My goal is to see them done right.

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #52 on: 17 March 2011, 15:21:37 »
let me rephrase, I would rather seen them done all at once then in some sort of popular order, because I fear that if done in popular order I fear the project will fizzle out after the P Hawk gets done, and no one will give a damn about the rest.

My Original point to this thread was how to do the minis.  and after speaking with Sawbones I have a pretty good grasp of how IWM will do the LAMs if funded. so really the point of this whole thread is moot.  and you know what I am not stuck on "my way" because my way was the battleforce Airmech and fighter method and THAT WAY was vetoed and I am not pressing for that anymore.

you can contribute or you can step aside
« Last Edit: 17 March 2011, 15:23:18 by JPArbiter »
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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #53 on: 17 March 2011, 21:48:31 »
If I get the assistant managers position(and it's pay increase) I will gladly help fund all the LAM's.  I want multiples of each of them.

I would prefer the Airmech mode versions first, and the other 2 modes later.
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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #54 on: 18 March 2011, 09:16:59 »
I think that's the consensus. The priority seems to be: Air-mech > Battlemech > Aerospace... in that order; that if the fate conspired against us and we could only expect 4 minis Air-mech mode is what we would all want.

@JPArbiter
I think its obvious I'm trying to contribute. I think though you're expecting alot of people to accept your conversations with Sawbones at face value, but you aren't giving much in the way of details. I realize there are things you can and cannot necessarily discuss and I'm not asking for you to break Sawbones confidence with you. Its more a matter that its obvious their are immutable aspect of this project that are set in stone or as close to it; while on the other hand there are likely details that are still open to feedback and opinions, but I don't think you've made clear what aspects we should really be discussing and which details are moot.

You don't have to go into the details just do something like this:
-They way they'd be released and packages is set.
-What particular variant of each, we've yet to decide.

That would let people know where we are with this and what sort of contributions can be made.

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #55 on: 18 March 2011, 09:45:04 »
Details change and will no doubt change due to the nature of these particular units. I see no reason for us to know the details at this time since they will most likely change at least twice before money is even collected. This isn't a straight pay for molding X mech. This is a can of worms that is in IWM's hands since marketing and selling these things are going to be two large factors that the fans just shouldn't be messing with. I would expect to have details when money is being collected but not anytime prior to avoid any "but you said back here" arguments that will happen because plans change at IWM's needs.

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #56 on: 18 March 2011, 14:40:28 »
For what it is worth:

I have spoken to Mike Noe about fan-funded sculpts in general -- virtually anything within reasonable size limitations that has art ( or a close description of a particular variant for those times when, like the Koschei 5I, the exact positioning/appearance of that variant's weaponry and jump jets beyond a leg/arm/torso location are conjectural rather than visualized in art ) can be done. Many will be online only releases ( like the infantry ). 

I ( without actually formally proposing it to Mike ) speculated to JP Arbiter about LAM release blisters that would have both the airmech and mech modes in it ( but not the pure aerospace mode ) for each of the LAMs and that the pure aerospace mode would certainly be online only...

  However, such a pack might be quite expensive ( north of $20.00 US at least ) and would force people to buy a mode they may not want.  The pure aerospace mode would certainly be online only.  All of these might best be done as online only releases that can be bought individually.  If they are paid for, then they will be done. I do comprehend JP's fear that interest in funding could wane if the P'hawk LAM is done first and therefore getting others to sponsor the others to fulfill his vision may fall short.  I personally feel that the Shadow Hawk LAM which never reached production is an expense ( $1800-2100 worth ) of sculpting that might hinder this project if it remains an "all four or no go" type proposition.  Good luck!

Rob

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #57 on: 19 March 2011, 06:09:19 »
All three forms might not be impossible if the designs are made in CAD.

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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #58 on: 19 March 2011, 15:34:52 »
For what it is worth:

I have spoken to Mike Noe about fan-funded sculpts in general -- virtually anything within reasonable size limitations that has art ( or a close description of a particular variant for those times when, like the Koschei 5I, the exact positioning/appearance of that variant's weaponry and jump jets beyond a leg/arm/torso location are conjectural rather than visualized in art ) can be done. Many will be online only releases ( like the infantry ). 

I ( without actually formally proposing it to Mike ) speculated to JP Arbiter about LAM release blisters that would have both the airmech and mech modes in it ( but not the pure aerospace mode ) for each of the LAMs and that the pure aerospace mode would certainly be online only...

  However, such a pack might be quite expensive ( north of $20.00 US at least ) and would force people to buy a mode they may not want.  The pure aerospace mode would certainly be online only.  All of these might best be done as online only releases that can be bought individually.  If they are paid for, then they will be done. I do comprehend JP's fear that interest in funding could wane if the P'hawk LAM is done first and therefore getting others to sponsor the others to fulfill his vision may fall short.  I personally feel that the Shadow Hawk LAM which never reached production is an expense ( $1800-2100 worth ) of sculpting that might hinder this project if it remains an "all four or no go" type proposition.  Good luck!

Rob

thank you Rob, I felt I was teetering the edge of confidence here.

in all fairness, the Shadow Hawk was the least of the ones I wanted, it would be the cherry on the cake if we get it.  My interest is getting the big three done first.  also when I first made this thread, I had barely talked to Sawbones about this, just floated the idea of the Mk I LAMs.  since then things changed details emerged, including his aforementioned speculation.

it seems to be that people  want all three modes in full mech scale, and that makes me excited.  I hope in May when I can start officially collecting money that you guys are willing to throw down enough money to make it happen with me.  it would be awesome to see all modes of all LAMs purchasable online at any given moment.

I also realize push comes to shove and the project comes up short of funds that contributors will have to come together and discuss what happens next, what gets made first what forms, and what order.  but that is a bridge that will be crossed when we come to it.  in the meantime, I do want this to happen in the best way possible, and it seems plenty here do to.  and that is reason enough to be excited.
« Last Edit: 19 March 2011, 15:44:53 by JPArbiter »
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Re: Land-Air Mechs: a Vision
« Reply #59 on: 21 March 2011, 11:01:10 »
I think i would prefer the land air mech mode the most of the three but I would
surely also buy some minis of the other modes as well. The fighter mode might be the
least used so less people seem to want it. If the mech mode looks at least somewhat different
from the original that it was based from, I would definitely buy some of those too.  But if it was mostly the same,
I would just use the original P-hawk or Stinger etc.

  I think there are at least a few ways to go about selling them, such as selling the 3 modes separately
or doing a special deal online. For example, "sell the bubble pack for $20 and you can pick which 2 of the 3 modes you want
and we will send them to you" (Or whatever the price will be).  I also like the idea of giving enough parts to allow
people to choose which mode they want to build, and letting them go from there
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