The Gray Death Saga

[abou]

So I'm working my way through the Gray Death Saga.  The original three novels were lots and lots of fun.  Granted, it may have been a bit over the top at times, but that is what adventure books are about: a hero who overcomes incredible odds despite how impossible it might be.  Brilliant is probably too strong a word, but I think they're fantastic.  That is BattleTech through and through.  The next novels, however...

Okay, so this is a bit of nitpicking, but Blood of Heroes has a few bits that just irritate me.  Andrew Keith is an okay writer, but some of the things he does are just... inelegant.  The whole court scene where Grayson gets his noble title...  Look, I get it: The Federated Commonwealth had to have a civil war.  That is what the authors wanted.  But it would have worked so much better if Victor was handled differently.  I get that he's not the most politically astute, but having the audience up in hackles because there was a 'mech painted in the Kathil Uhlans and another in the Kell Hounds livery as throne guards?  Ridiculous.  The author's emphasizing the Davion heritage over and over again?  I mean, come on!  It's a unified realm and the Kell Hounds are practically a Steiner unit in all but name.  And oh how Victor is just such a Davion jerk because it wasn't as though he was educated on Tharkad and that he had fought against the Clans and in the Donegal and Lyran Guards.

I guess I'd just feel better if they made the tensions in the FedCom much more natural instead of forced.  Make it a media blitz or corrupt and marginalized generals fighting against the change.  But don't have Victor do so much for the Lyran half and then make it look like he's just offending everyone and takes solely after his father.

Now I'm about half way through Tactics of Duty and I've gotten to the part where Davis McCall and Alex Carlyle go to speak to Wilmarth.  The whole scene with the depraved torture and executions... really?  We're going to stoop this low to make an easy villain?  W. H. Keith Jr., you've fallen so far from your excellent previous work.

And the self-professed fighting back against the darkness and barbarians -- geeze, laying it on a bit thick there.

[Tizona]

Hi,

you must bear in mind that the first trilogy is really the sum of three independent novels, each with it's own, mostly standalone plot. The trilogy in which you are now inmersed form a more complex story, and some things are hard to judge when you're in the middle of it. Said this, it's true that I also enjoyed more the first than the later one.

Now I'm about half way through Tactics of Duty and I've gotten to the part where Davis McCall and Alex Carlyle go to speak to Wilmarth.  The whole scene with the depraved torture and executions... really?  We're going to stoop this low to make an easy villain?  W. H. Keith Jr., you've fallen so far from your excellent previous work.

BattleTech is a universe composed, among other things, by billions of people on thousands of worlds. It's easy to imagine there may be a host of different villain archetypes out there, not everyone must be cunning and deceptive.

In fact, I remember the moment I read that passage, and it was also a bit of shock for me. But those moments, when I go through something unexpected, are the ones I enjoy the most.

[Marveryn]

The throne scene in tactic isn't really keith fault, part of it was already shown in.. i want to say breed for war????  can't remeber for sure which one of the main line book mention this same exact event from a different percetion and it illustrated nearly the same thing that grayson thought.  Basicly he recopying the notes that stackpole gave him about this scene.   but i agreed this book particular since a portion is left out cause it finish off in the video game has a lot to be desire story wise but overall i enjoy it.  the only book that i didn't like that involve the legion completely was dying time.

So I'm working my way through the Gray Death Saga.  The original three novels were lots and lots of fun.  Granted, it may have been a bit over the top at times, but that is what adventure books are about: a hero who overcomes incredible odds despite how impossible it might be.  Brilliant is probably too strong a word, but I think they're fantastic.  That is BattleTech through and through.  The next novels, however...

Okay, so this is a bit of nitpicking, but Blood of Heroes has a few bits that just irritate me.  Andrew Keith is an okay writer, but some of the things he does are just... inelegant.  The whole court scene where Grayson gets his noble title...  Look, I get it: The Federated Commonwealth had to have a civil war.  That is what the authors wanted.  But it would have worked so much better if Victor was handled differently.  I get that he's not the most politically astute, but having the audience up in hackles because there was a 'mech painted in the Kathil Uhlans and another in the Kell Hounds livery as throne guards?  Ridiculous.  The author's emphasizing the Davion heritage over and over again?  I mean, come on!  It's a unified realm and the Kell Hounds are practically a Steiner unit in all but name.  And oh how Victor is just such a Davion jerk because it wasn't as though he was educated on Tharkad and that he had fought against the Clans and in the Donegal and Lyran Guards.

I guess I'd just feel better if they made the tensions in the FedCom much more natural instead of forced.  Make it a media blitz or corrupt and marginalized generals fighting against the change.  But don't have Victor do so much for the Lyran half and then make it look like he's just offending everyone and takes solely after his father.

Now I'm about half way through Tactics of Duty and I've gotten to the part where Davis McCall and Alex Carlyle go to speak to Wilmarth.  The whole scene with the depraved torture and executions... really?  We're going to stoop this low to make an easy villain?  W. H. Keith Jr., you've fallen so far from your excellent previous work.

And the self-professed fighting back against the darkness and barbarians -- geeze, laying it on a bit thick there.

[Capt Hungry]

Wow. I am almost done with Decision At Thunder Rift and am planning on re-reading Blood Of Heroes and then Tactics Of Duty once I get through Mercenary's Star and The Price Of Glory. I will have to pay particular attention to the last two. I haven't read those since they were published, so I am looking forward to reading them again. Likewise, I haven't read the first three again since I found them back in the late 80's. It's been fun revisiting them.

[Sonicfear]

I remember picking up Decision At Thunder Rift when I was 12 or so because the maurader on the cover looked cool.  After I finished reading it I begged a second edition starter set out of my parents and started smashing my buddies with fold up paper mechs.  30-40 ral partha minis later and I was conquering solar systems.

As B-rated scifi as they are I have to give credit to the Gray Death Legion for basically introducing me to Battletech and war gaming in general. I've read through their books more times than I can remember.  My only complaint is that I feel Dying Time wasn't worth the paper it was printed on.

[Cubby]

I also read Decision at TR way back when, but never went beyond that. I now have the other two of the original trilogy and need the first book, but looking forward to being blown away.

I missed (as in, literally, was not present for) the days where a hand-held Inferno launcher was a problem for a light 'Mech, and after wading through "Main Event" for the first time in 15-ish years, am into seeing how a merc company really gets built.

[TS_Hawk]

Ok I am just starting Tactics of Duty so is that part of a trilogy or is this a stand alone book by William H. Keith?

[Nav_Alpha]

Ok I am just starting Tactics of Duty so is that part of a trilogy or is this a stand alone book by William H. Keith?

It's The Gray Death Saga - not just a trilogy. So yes, it takes in Tactics of Duty and continues to Operation Excalibur. The Dying Time which details the destruction of the legion during the FCCW is not marked as part of the saga but is about the Legion.
that said the Dying Time... it's... it's not a great book

[Marveryn]

dying time worse offense is that the legion took stupid pills to make it work.  Here a group that have toturial before battle and that lori been leading for a decade prior to grayson death and suddenly they can't do nothing right. 

[TS_Hawk]

It's The Gray Death Saga - not just a trilogy. So yes, it takes in Tactics of Duty and continues to Operation Excalibur. The Dying Time which details the destruction of the legion during the FCCW is not marked as part of the saga but is about the Legion.
that said the Dying Time... it's... it's not a great book

So this then picks up after the 3rd book of the original set about them?

[Mendrugo]

The total "Gray Death Legion" series includes:

Decision at Thunder Rift (novel)
Mercenary's Star (novel)
The Price of Glory (novel)
The Gray Death Legion (scenario pack)
Legion Team (short story from Shrapnel)
Blood of Heroes (novel)
Day of Heroes (scenario pack)
Tactics of Duty (novel)
Operation Excalibur (novel)
The Dying Time (novel)

[Nav_Alpha]

The total "Gray Death Legion" series includes:

Decision at Thunder Rift (novel)
Mercenary's Star (novel)
The Price of Glory (novel)
The Gray Death Legion (scenario pack)
Legion Team (short story from Shrapnel)
Blood of Heroes (novel)
Day of Heroes (scenario pack)
Tactics of Duty (novel)
Operation Excalibur (novel)
The Dying Time (novel)

Got it in one!

[nerd]

Mercs Handbook 3055 details the Legion as well.

[Stinger]

I have been re-reading mercenary's star right now, and I have to say it is very good (again), but I noticed something this time.

When they "float" the dropship, it turns from being a union into a leopard.  Even the illustrations show a leopard and it was clearly stated as a spheroid union earlier in the book.  It is kinda funny.

[Mendrugo]

The Phobos isn't a Union-class vessel.  It's a converted freight-haul shell mocked up to look like a Union, per the GDL scenario pack.  The paperback edition I have wasn't illustrated.

[Stinger]

The Phobos isn't a Union-class vessel.  It's a converted freight-haul shell mocked up to look like a Union, per the GDL scenario pack.  The paperback edition I have wasn't illustrated.

Sorry,  I meant "Union Like". Either way, I could see a leopard working as a steam ship, but not a union. Honestly, how the heck would you do that? It is kinda a weird plot hole...

[Nav_Alpha]

Sorry,  I meant "Union Like". Either way, I could see a leopard working as a steam ship, but not a union. Honestly, how the heck would you do that? It is kinda a weird plot hole...

Doesn't the book mention filling up about half of the spheroid shaped ship so that it float in the water? Maybe it looked something like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_%28submersible%29

[Stinger]

Doesn't the book mention filling up about half of the spheroid shaped ship so that it float in the water? Maybe it looked something like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_%28submersible%29

But it uses the engines as propulsion.  Meaning, somehow, they tipped the thing over, and then tipped it back up right.  I am sorry, but that would be near impossible just to push out to sea using only 7 mechs, massing less than 300 tons to move a 4300 ton sphere...

[guardiandashi]

in the novel where they partially flood the phobos which is a non military version of the union IE its basically a union but without the built in mech and or fighter bays, reduced armor and missing most of the weapons


when they partially flood the phobos, they only flooded 1 side of it (in addition they open up passages through the hull, so that it has "intakes" to suck in water) it was actually working like a fusion powered jetski or fusion powered jet boat (sorta)

if I remember right after they got done flooding the dropship it had an ~20/30 degree list aka it floated with the nose pointing about 20-30 degrees down from vertical and then engines instaid of pointing straight down were angled to 1 side

ok here is an image that will help
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn-www.trails.com/Cms/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/3084/280825_Full.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.trails.com/how_3084_rig-fishing-bobbers.html&h=500&w=500&sz=16&tbnid=84zRnzOrenpqwM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=90&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dfishing%2Bbobbers%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=fishing+bobbers&usg=__8bmxsowk6H-baTHF7QS-9wYJ_u8=&docid=uJQu_08rDkvWCM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jbcRUb6_KavliwLM8IDYBw&sqi=2&ved=0CDoQ9QEwAQ&dur=1101

the red "button" at the top is the engines, of the union, if you only clipped the button to the fishing line the bobber thing will "hang" off to 1 side, and not float straight up and down when it was floating diagonally like that "thrusting"" or pushing by the engines will cause a reaction not just down but off to the side as well

[Stinger]

That Makes more sense :)

Like I said, literally, the illustration in the book shows a leopard being unloaded to be sent out to sea, but having a union at such a list makes everything seem more plausible.

[Redman]

dying time worse offense is that the legion took stupid pills to make it work.  Here a group that have toturial before battle and that lori been leading for a decade prior to grayson death and suddenly they can't do nothing right.

And how is that different from all the other books that only work by having the Legion's enemies taking stupid pills? Let's face it, BT novels in general are usually not hot candidates for hugo awards.

[FedSunsBorn]

I wouldn't say that the Dying Time had the Legion taking stupid pills so much as having an increasingly worse string of bad luck for a single unit during a campaign. If one or two of the events during the book had been changed, things might have turned out a bit different imo. Murphy's law can be real unforgiving at times. Its like Grayson Caryle used up all the unit's edge points or something when he passed....

[Nav_Alpha]

I wouldn't say that the Dying Time had the Legion taking stupid pills so much as having an increasingly worse string of bad luck for a single unit during a campaign. If one or two of the events during the book had been changed, things might have turned out a bit different imo. Murphy's law can be real unforgiving at times. Its like Grayson Caryle used up all the unit's edge points or something when he passed....

You're also talking about a unit hat had recently lost its founding member and leader - morale wise they can't have been in great shape either, especially after the bodies started mounting up.

I know it's been said again and again but I would have liked to have seen Brewer's Legion actually go some where after the civil war. It would have been interesting how these guys would have made out

[FedSunsBorn]

That or somehow making the son survive tharkad and starting up a new unit based loosely on the old. Maybe company or at best mix batt size but that is all in the past now...

[Sandslice]

That or somehow making the son survive tharkad and starting up a new unit based loosely on the old. Maybe company or at best mix batt size but that is all in the past now...

We don't know that he didn't survive Tharkad - but even then, he was a Hauptmann in the Second Royal Guards.  It's not the sort of unit you simply quit in favour of becoming a mercenary - and that's even assuming the MRBC would relent and let him form a unit.  They wouldn't trust him not to recreate the Gray Death in all but name, after all.

[Nav_Alpha]

We don't know that he didn't survive Tharkad - but even then, he was a Hauptmann in the Second Royal Guards.  It's not the sort of unit you simply quit in favour of becoming a mercenary - and that's even assuming the MRBC would relent and let him form a unit.  They wouldn't trust him not to recreate the Gray Death in all but name, after all.

Considering the attrition rate for the 2nd... I really think Alex bought it. They're described as being constantly topped up with troops from other units over the years as they fought a hit and run war on Tharkad, according to Jihad Turning Points: Tharkad.
And considering the way they were reformed you'd think you'd have at least heard something about Carlyle being part of the new, rebuilding 2nd Royal after the Jihad

Which is a real shame - I didn't mind Alex, mainly because of that sense of self-doubt. Imagine being the son of one of the greatest military minds of your time?
That stuff weighs down on you - hell, Morgan Kell's son was so caught up about it he got himself bounced from the academy and defected to the Clans!

[Carcosa]

Reading the price of glory right now. The first book was better than Mercenaries star I thought, but Price of Glory already seems better than the last one. Mercenaries Star wasn't that bad, but I wish there was a little more to the plot. It was basically a detailed guerrilla war throughout the book, but I wish there had been more to think about besides the combat scenes. Both the first and third book seem to have more  plot to them.

[Caesar Steiner for Archon]

We don't know that he didn't survive Tharkad - but even then, he was a Hauptmann in the Second Royal Guards.  It's not the sort of unit you simply quit in favour of becoming a mercenary - and that's even assuming the MRBC would relent and let him form a unit.  They wouldn't trust him not to recreate the Gray Death in all but name, after all.

We do actually know that. JTP: Tharkad says that, at least twice, the combined Royal Guards unit was literally just Archon Peter.