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BattleTech Game Universe => The Periphery => Topic started by: Sharpnel on 24 February 2016, 06:13:46

Title: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sharpnel on 24 February 2016, 06:13:46
Time for a new thread as the last has hit 50.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 24 February 2016, 08:37:45
jimdigris  Dixit: It's not clear to me that the Hegemony has that much to offer to Niops in terms of technical support.  Bear in mind that their military factories produce a great deal of retrotech, and they were the national priority. Dixit



The information about Retrotech is old in almost 70 years, in 3145 the Marian Hegemony manufactures a tank as the Testudo with Ferro Light Fiber / case, UCA / 10 Arrow IV launcher does not seem at all Retrotech apart from that says in the ER 3145 and the Field Manual 3145 have been built many new therefore the ATC as other factories factories, quietly at least advice Battlearmor it could be given we have two factories so I assure you that the Marian Hegemony know like building factories Battle Armor, Tanks and Mechs
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 24 February 2016, 08:40:35
Welcome to the new post of Marian Hegemony IV
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 24 February 2016, 09:52:02
jimdigris  Dixit: It's not clear to me that the Hegemony has that much to offer to Niops in terms of technical support.  Bear in mind that their military factories produce a great deal of retrotech, and they were the national priority. Dixit



The information about Retrotech is old in almost 70 years, in 3145 the Marian Hegemony manufactures a tank as the Testudo with Ferro Light Fiber / case, UCA / 10 Arrow IV launcher does not seem at all Retrotech apart from that says in the ER 3145 and the Field Manual 3145 have been built many new therefore the ATC as other factories factories, quietly at least advice Battlearmor it could be given we have two factories so I assure you that the Marian Hegemony know like building factories Battle Armor, Tanks and Mechs
Sure, but does Niops need ferrofibrous armor, CASE, Arrow IV, etc, or do they need lost civilian systems that the Hegemony never had and doesn't really care enough to develop?  The Hegemony could have clantech, that wouldn't do the Niopsians any good if what they need is help with the power grid, sanitation systems, IT, and a thousand other civilian technologies.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 24 February 2016, 10:10:51
Sure, but does Niops need ferrofibrous armor, CASE, Arrow IV, etc, or do they need lost civilian systems that the Hegemony never had and doesn't really care enough to develop?  The Hegemony could have clantech, that wouldn't do the Niopsians any good if what they need is help with the power grid, sanitation systems, IT, and a thousand other civilian technologies.

Really Nyops in the state that apparently this perpetual internal convulsion may need everything from food to ore or almost anything
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 24 February 2016, 11:22:07
Sure, but does Niops need ferrofibrous armor, CASE, Arrow IV, etc, or do they need lost civilian systems that the Hegemony never had and doesn't really care enough to develop?

And we don't even know if the Hegemony is making those components or purchasing them, like they were with their AC/10s and LB-10Xs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 24 February 2016, 11:49:32
And we don't even know if the Hegemony is making those components or purchasing them, like they were with their AC/10s and LB-10Xs.

Arrow IV Launcher if you do, and the UCA / 0 takes Romanico name, in terms of Ferro Fibrous / Case if you have enough in the tank to manufacture for export MHAF number and tell you that there must be local production
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 24 February 2016, 12:40:38
Really Nyops in the state that apparently this perpetual internal convulsion may need everything from food to ore or almost anything

Unlikely, give that the primary source of funding for the Niopian government right now is asteroid mining done in conjunction with Interstellar Expeditions, with an emphasis on germanium.  They've also rebuilt a domestic military academy, and have been buying military hardware from their neighbors, reportedly including, but not exclusively, the Marian Hegemony. The latest updates make it sound like they haven't rebuilt the workshops in no small part due to internal squabbling, which fits with the reported arguments about which world would host the academy.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 25 February 2016, 04:36:44
The Blakists shoulda nuked two of the three planets and forced everyone into the last inhabitable one.

Ave omnes!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 25 February 2016, 14:15:01
Everyone in NIOPS would just move to IX then.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 25 February 2016, 17:25:18
Everyone in NIOPS would just move to IX then.

Along with the new machines there.  O:-)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 26 February 2016, 10:42:56
Thou shalt not create machines in the likeness of a human mind
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Jellico on 27 February 2016, 07:22:59
What are stereotypical Marian weapon systems beyond Rocket Launchers?

Thanks
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 27 February 2016, 08:02:17
That's about it, after that it's whatever they can get their hands on.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 27 February 2016, 14:36:49
At BA scale, you might say HRRs.  The Ravager was one of the first major uses of that system, IIRC.  Actually, could we say "particularly impressive infantry forces"?  From the Ravager to the Royal Guard infantry, the Marians have some damned impressive footsloggers, especially for a Periphery realm.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 27 February 2016, 21:45:06
And the Marauder BA. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 28 February 2016, 08:55:58
and Naval Rocket Launchers
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: solmanian on 28 February 2016, 09:17:20
Arrow IV Launcher if you do, and the UCA / 0 takes Romanico name, in terms of Ferro Fibrous / Case if you have enough in the tank to manufacture for export MHAF number and tell you that there must be local production
Imperator Automatic Weaponry is located on Atreus.

Most of the component are common in their neighbours. Communications systems, LNGs and TCs, that's been seen in the MAF, and the various FWL factions.

The Arrow and the Armor are the only ones that are definitely local. Makes sense, since you'd want a steady supply of armor and ammo.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 28 February 2016, 10:20:46
and Naval Rocket Launchers

The what?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 28 February 2016, 12:32:19
This in the supplement appearing naval ships as space development or use there are pods of rocket launchers
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 28 February 2016, 12:35:59
Imperator Automatic Weaponry is located on Atreus.

Most of the component are common in their neighbours. Communications systems, LNGs and TCs, that's been seen in the MAF, and the various FWL factions.

The Arrow and the Armor are the only ones that are definitely local. Makes sense, since you'd want a steady supply of armor and ammo.

Communications systems you say are using it in vehicles and mechs of long MHAF not discard that have purchased the designs and permits to build in factories Marian Hegemony
May be the same case with respect to the UCA / 10 numbers used in the production of Testudos would not be something too strange to see, but if part of the production of Testudos ends in Oriente.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 28 February 2016, 12:46:20
This in the supplement appearing naval ships as space development or use there are pods of rocket launchers

Wait, which book?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 28 February 2016, 12:53:52
Strategic Operations pag 16  Rocket Launcher Hardpoints (3064) Usable by fighters, and Dropships
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: solmanian on 28 February 2016, 14:56:16
At BA scale, you might say HRRs.  The Ravager was one of the first major uses of that system, IIRC.  Actually, could we say "particularly impressive infantry forces"?  From the Ravager to the Royal Guard infantry, the Marians have some damned impressive footsloggers, especially for a Periphery realm.
If IIRC the stats of the RGI are rather inflated, since each unit is a 100 soldiers. It would only be fair to compare to 3-4 regular platoons.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 28 February 2016, 16:05:18
Strategic Operations pag 16  Rocket Launcher Hardpoints (3064) Usable by fighters, and Dropships

My copy doesn't mention DropShips, but yeah, that's different than what I was thinking when you said naval, which was capital grade on WarShips or Pocket WarShips.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 28 February 2016, 16:22:41
My copy doesn't mention DropShips, but yeah, that's different than what I was thinking when you said naval, which was capital grade on WarShips or Pocket WarShips.

Not only is usable in naval combat dropships or Aero Fighters  as an adjunct to regular weapons, say like a punch damage over short distances
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: solmanian on 28 February 2016, 17:14:46
Not only is usable in naval combat dropships or Aero Fighters  as an adjunct to regular weapons, say like a punch damage over short distances
On the Aerospace map? Make that very short distances.

Periphery boys and their toys...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 28 February 2016, 20:37:28
On the Aerospace map? Make that very short distances.

Periphery boys and their toys...

Really I did not give much interest to the aerospace part so not really as it is a short distance with hardpoints Rocket Launchers
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 28 February 2016, 21:11:30
If IIRC the stats of the RGI are rather inflated, since each unit is a 100 soldiers. It would only be fair to compare to 3-4 regular platoons.
Most of the stats in the TRO are already broken up into 4 25-man units.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 29 February 2016, 03:30:11
Jellico, I would say the Marians favor Autocannons as we see many of the units they build-

Gladius, as mentioned it has a AC/10 even if it has to be imported
Gladius II, weaker IMO but it has a LAC/5, MGs and RL15s
Testudo, UAC/10, A4 and LMGs
Centurion 9-H, LB-10X, ML, and 4 RL10s
The BA was covered . . .

Now, do they import those autocannons?  They used to when the Gladius was built, but we have no idea if they do any longer- heck we do not even know if they still build that Cent as a mix Prim/Modern or a all modern version.  Almost as interesting for the advanced ACs is do they build their own ammo for all the options.

We do know they had purchasing agents wandering the Inner Sphere to buy discarded, old or damaged weapons and equipment that they would refurbish.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 29 February 2016, 04:49:17
Or GM just quietly built a plant to manufacture those ACs for them under license...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 31 March 2016, 21:42:19
Question - building a couple of centuries of I Legio for one of my combined arms mini builds. Question - what transport would be suitably Marian to support a maniple of Ravager squads?

I was considering the Support Prowlers, but they're CT not IT - means I could carry the Ravagers into combat, but they couldn't deploy :(

Also, side question - do the Hegemony use 4-suit or 5-suit squads?

Thanks,

W.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 31 March 2016, 23:03:03
CT?  IT?  Alpha Strike thing?

I think they use 5 man squads.

Also, when?  I say that because Kendall is a independent world after the Jihad and IIRC they sold some stuff to the Marians . . . Main Gauche IFV?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 31 March 2016, 23:19:58
Sorry, yes Alpha Strike.

A 5-suit BA squad is CAR5 - which needs a vehicle with IT (Infantry Transport) 5 or better to carry.

A vehicle with CT5 or better can carry the suits as cargo, but they can't unload during a game.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 31 March 2016, 23:27:27
This go back to some list cargo bay and others list infantry bays on the record sheets?

Another to consider IMO would be the Saxon which sold widely . . . the Giggins also springs to mind, if you would consider it selling outside the Republic.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 01 April 2016, 00:34:03
CT can be freely converted to IT at the beginning of a game. I forget if that's in Companion, or errata.

The Hegemony uses 5-man BA squads.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baron RedSkull on 01 April 2016, 01:20:30
Depending on era, you could justify the Marian's purchasing some Cardinals from the Sea Foxes. IT10 means 2 squads per Cardinal.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 01 April 2016, 06:26:18
There is also the Goblin Medium Tank (MG). It's slow for my taste but it should be pretty common.

 Personally I use Saxsons, or Cardinals both have good TMM and can take a hit.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 01 April 2016, 07:47:56
My preference is the classic Heavy APC, usually hover. Solid and cheap. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 01 April 2016, 10:57:14
My go-to has always been karnovs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 07 April 2016, 15:52:05
We recently got the Crane, too.  8t is not enough for our Ravagers but plenty for our medium suits
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 08 April 2016, 22:57:24
BA squads are 1 ton per trooper, no matter what they actually weigh.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 09 April 2016, 00:11:19
Unless you use the TacOps rule for real weight on transport.  I will be honest, I do not since finding transport with the proper size is difficult when things are not built for that rule in BTU.  Then again, I prefer Medium BA which means I generally do not run into the problem on the suits, but my mercs do on organization.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 13 April 2016, 20:59:44
* TT is ordering from Little Cesar's, since Maneri Domino won't delivery to his planet...

WT : I suggest the Sherpa from TRO:VAr. It has BAR-10 and 7 tons.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 13 April 2016, 21:11:56
Sherpas are pretty good. If you're not too worried about your APCs being fragile as hell, you have a LOT of options in VAr.  O0
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 13 April 2016, 23:10:08
Yup, I'd love Sherpas. Remember, I only build mini-based units. What'd I base them off? Unless IWM slipped some in ...

Heck, I'm even looking at the Dreadnought Land Train, if I'm going to bash something.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 14 April 2016, 07:58:24
The Land Train Marian .., did not use the model to test BAR, MML and other modern weapons systems?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 14 April 2016, 09:00:04
Yup, I'd love Sherpas. Remember, I only build mini-based units. What'd I base them off? Unless IWM slipped some in ...

I use these (http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/n524.html). Perfect size alongside most IWM stuff(it's about the same size as a Striker), and even though it's wheeled, simply wrapping a strip of paper around the rear wheels turns it into a halftrack easily.

And if you pull off a Dreadnought that looks good on a hex map, lemme know how you did it!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 03 July 2016, 18:08:42
I'm looking the gladiator Mech ( not the omni ). It seems odd that we get the 5R. C3i, ecm mml... did we get these from the WoB?

 It seems we have access to the 1R and are possibly making them in jihad era but by early jihad they're periphery general.

 The 3R is available to mercs in the Jihad era but early republic extinct. Same with the 4R.

 Anyone have a guess what's going on with this fun Mech?

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 July 2016, 01:56:09
Could either be producing the primitive version along with the hybrid Centurion or buying them from the Periphery general source since it should give numbers but ease the logistical strain.

Others I would just assume to be salvage or salvage grade buys.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 04 July 2016, 11:55:47
It is also possible that some version of Gladiator, from the most modern in the same factories of the MH is built.
I do not think the C3i, but may with other hardware that replace
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 04 July 2016, 21:45:14
I think they retconned the -5R into dropping the C3i.

A real shame, as C3i would tie into Roman military culture perfectly.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 04 July 2016, 22:37:22
The C3/ECM switch for C3I really should be the sort of thing universally available by that time.

Having a mad idea here ... Cranes with Stronghold trailers! With bees in their - well, maybe not that.

Except darn, the Strongholds only have 4 ton infantry compartments :(

Unless I house rule it, and either drop a ton of armour off the trailer, or put the 5th Ravager in the Crane's 1 ton IT ...

W.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 05 July 2016, 01:51:07
Yeah...but C3i is far more flexible than C3.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 05 July 2016, 07:59:23
A lot more hazardous, though. People tend to adopt a "shoot first, questions are for forensics" policy towards groups fielding gear associated with the Word that aren't big enough to deter such attacks. Clan Ghost Bear, we ain't.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 July 2016, 08:41:07
I would like us to build the GLD-5R or own version, as it would without the C3I, except as Worktroll the C3I is Common says in 3145, going I'm not saying that the MH build mechs with Null Signature System.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 05 July 2016, 09:59:08
A lot more hazardous, though. People tend to adopt a "shoot first, questions are for forensics" policy towards groups fielding gear associated with the Word that aren't big enough to deter such attacks. Clan Ghost Bear, we ain't.

Yeah, but who cares about the Marians doing it? In their corner of space, and during the post-Jihad period, their neighbours don't care if they field C3i. They could just pass it off as a healthy amount of repurposed salvage. Heck the Bears were equipping their second-line formations with Blakist salvage too, same with FedSuns units that fought a lot against Blakists.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jackson123 on 05 July 2016, 10:18:44
Ok so the marians picked clean wobbie sal from the Cricus fed. Makes sense.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 July 2016, 10:41:39
C3i would work better for us than C3 because of the 4 to C3. You can still make a network of 5 with c3i. You get someone left out in a c3 century.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 05 July 2016, 11:01:52
Yeah, but who cares about the Marians doing it

All of their neighbors. You know, the folks who've had to deal with aggressive Marians for decades, and wouldn't shed a single tear if some leaked battleROMs led to something...Regulan...happening to them.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 July 2016, 11:03:56
Yeah, honestly the solution is doing a Republic-style refit and putting the C3i in a vault somewhere until a later time or sent off for R&D.

Heck a Marian C3i refit is likely to be split between ECM & 2 RL10s or 3 RL10s and a RL15- depends on the crits.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 July 2016, 11:45:48
All of their neighbors. You know, the folks who've had to deal with aggressive Marians for decades, and wouldn't shed a single tear if some leaked battleROMs led to something...Regulan...happening to them.

You mean the Regulans starving by the Sea Fox? I think their neighbors are more concerned about them
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 July 2016, 12:07:06
Lester ignored Marik-Stewart and independent worlds getting gobbled up to go hunt Blakists on one of his own worlds.  His vengefulness towards Jessica is related to raising that ghost along with the casualties.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sharpnel on 05 July 2016, 12:43:17
Yeah, honestly the solution is doing a Republic-style refit and putting the C3i in a vault somewhere until a later time or sent off for R&D.

Heck a Marian C3i refit is likely to be split between ECM & 2 RL10s or 3 RL10s and a RL15- depends on the crits.
If they R&D the C3i and make it fit their base 5 unit structure then their shouldn't be too many issues.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 July 2016, 12:55:03
Are the WoB in the current era still the Boogeyman so much that other nations would nuke the MH for using it?

 Isn't comstar still using C3i?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 05 July 2016, 13:24:37
Comstar is DEAD. They were disarmed at the end of the Jihad. Their short-lived military resurgence was smacked down hard and led to the complete dismantling of even the civilian branches within the Republic. This resurgence was also completely unknown outside the Fortress. Outside the Fortress, the withered husk of corporate Comstar is rapidly going bankrupt despite selling off everything that wasn't nailed down.

The only notable use of C3i after the Jihad was when the Bears put it on a few prototypes whose only real action was to slaughter a bunch of Nova Cat civilians in the Second Bear-DC war. This led to Republic peacekeepers, and intense negotiations that culminated in Clan Ghost Bear voluntarily(and VERY permanently) eliminating all of their capacity to build or field C3i.

As much as the Manei Domini cyborgs, it seems that C3i is viewed as the single most 'Blakist' bit of technology out there. You have a realm with no friends, right next door to the Master's former backyard, deploy that stuff without the weight of a Bear-sized military to keep people back? You will be on everyone's shit list immediately, and there will be no shortage of major powers willing to be proactive about their displeasure.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 July 2016, 13:43:10
Yeah, it would work great for them since it can accommodate up to 6 units in a network though it lacks the company size network regular C3 gets.

Except for that whole getting bombed/nuked by a really pissy neighbor . . . who also happened to have taken out YOUR neighbor 70 years ago.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 July 2016, 14:20:57
The MH seems to be taking worlds in the FWL and they're not being stopped.

 With the HPG's down who's really going to know other than the people they're attacking? I seriously doubt anyone but the people they're attacking care. The Lyrans have their own trouble, the FWL has their troubles too with the Wolf clan taking a huge chunk of their realm.

 By the time anyone can figure out that we're using c3i will it really matter?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 05 July 2016, 14:27:08
It will matter, because unless the universe is far more merciful than it's ever been in the Battletech timeline, the time people figure it out will also be the time they can afford to spare troops for a response. And that response won't be the business as usual reprisal raids.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 05 July 2016, 14:43:34
Possibly. It's no fun if there's no fighting.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 05 July 2016, 15:14:20
Well, never let it be said that you're not willing to grab the tiger by the tonsils...barehanded.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 July 2016, 18:18:20
Actually with the Regulans being re-absorbed into the neoLeague . . . and they have a agreement with the Wolves.  The Marians is the border that whoever is the new Captain-General can do something aside from occupying the independent worlds between the neoFWL and Andurien/MoC/Cappies.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 05 July 2016, 18:38:04
When were the Regulans reabsorbed?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 July 2016, 19:00:33
All we know is that TRO3150 talks about Jessica being killed and a short sharp war to re-absorb the Regulan Fiefs . . . not even sure if it means Lester is dead or not.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 05 July 2016, 21:51:44
I'm still for C3i over C3 because it fits better with the Marian unit structure. Besides, Regulus is busy looking over it's shoulder against the neoFWL and they have a history of overlooking Blakist connections if it suits them. Look at the 10th-14th Hussars' histories. They would be eager for an alliance with the Marians if it staves off the neoFWL.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 July 2016, 00:48:59
Well, by 3150 they are rejoined . . . besides those were puppets.  They nuked several worlds to get at the Blakists and like I said . . . Lester chased a trail that HURT the Fiefs badly in the strategic sense to go after what he thought was a Blakist cell.

Not saying you cannot do it but there are some repercussions.  Heck, I want my mercs to be able to use Asura BA and a Celestial or two . . . but I also understand there will be problems.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 06 July 2016, 04:43:59
I think they retconned the -5R into dropping the C3i.

A real shame, as C3i would tie into Roman military culture perfectly.

Yeah, it has a c3s and ECM now.

While C3i would be great for Marian formations it is not a big loss. I would be happy if we would just get a few C3M carriers as we have plenty of c3s carrying units already.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 06 July 2016, 11:41:10
Let's say the Neofwl is not exactly easy, does not have secure borders
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 July 2016, 14:19:34
While that might be the case, the weakest neighbor that has been causing problems IS the Marian Hegemony.  By 3150 Regulus has been re-integrated, thus no longer a hostile border and does consolidate internal lines of communication.

Andurien has been picking off independent worlds between it and what was the Fiefs.  Its backed up by the Cappies and MoC, and even if the Cappies are involved with the Republic the MoC has nothing going on.

The Crusader Wolves and their Empire?  They are also playing with the Republic and the Falcons, so far Jessica and likely her successors, have shown no inclination to poke the sleeping dog of that border.

Which leaves the Marians as the only ones who have been attacking the neoLeague recently . . . and coincidentally the weakest.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 06 July 2016, 14:37:20
While that might be the case, the weakest neighbor that has been causing problems IS the Marian Hegemony.  By 3150 Regulus has been re-integrated, thus no longer a hostile border and does consolidate internal lines of communication.

Andurien has been picking off independent worlds between it and what was the Fiefs.  Its backed up by the Cappies and MoC, and even if the Cappies are involved with the Republic the MoC has nothing going on.

The Crusader Wolves and their Empire?  They are also playing with the Republic and the Falcons, so far Jessica and likely her successors, have shown no inclination to poke the sleeping dog of that border.

Which leaves the Marians as the only ones who have been attacking the neoLeague recently . . . and coincidentally the weakest.

It may be, though reintegrating Regulans not think it's that simple, in the fluff TRO 3150 mentioned that some units were devastated and there has been quite defections even a defected aerospace component with a cache of nuclear weapons, I do not say that compared to Andurien we are weaker, but without making offensive actions against the Wolf Empire, will do this if against the worlds of Neofwl that are between its territory and Terra, as they are called the Agustines?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 July 2016, 15:03:11
The Wolves are right up against the Fortress Wall already . . . they did that when they struck at Tharkad.  They MAY finish off the Remnant and Galatean League, or just bypass them in the race to Terra.

I know re-integrating the Regulan military will not be easy and I also recall those defections.  But yes, compared to the Anduriens who have an alliance with the Cappies and totally uncommitted MOC (by marriage!) military forming a Trinity Alliance 2.0 makes the Anduriens stronger than the Marians.

Who have no allies at their back.

The Marians should have committed to take Kendall when Hammerfall kicked off and the League proto-states started shuffling & squabbling.  It was the best time to ramp up, when they were all paying more attention core-ward.  Best time to invade Kendall would have been when the neoLeague was taking Atreus since Rim Commonality forces would not have been able to truely respond.

But that window has passed, and with Regulus out of the way . . . taking Kendall and a punative strike against the Marians is the most likely path forward- the next 'outside' enemy to exploit.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 06 July 2016, 15:19:24
The Wolves are right up against the Fortress Wall already . . . they did that when they struck at Tharkad.  They MAY finish off the Remnant and Galatean League, or just bypass them in the race to Terra.

I know re-integrating the Regulan military will not be easy and I also recall those defections.  But yes, compared to the Anduriens who have an alliance with the Cappies and totally uncommitted MOC (by marriage!) military forming a Trinity Alliance 2.0 makes the Anduriens stronger than the Marians.

Who have no allies at their back.

The Marians should have committed to take Kendall when Hammerfall kicked off and the League proto-states started shuffling & squabbling.  It was the best time to ramp up, when they were all paying more attention core-ward.  Best time to invade Kendall would have been when the neoLeague was taking Atreus since Rim Commonality forces would not have been able to truely respond.

But that window has passed, and with Regulus out of the way . . . taking Kendall and a punative strike against the Marians is the most likely path forward- the next 'outside' enemy to exploit.

Is that the best time window to occupy Kendall was when they were still all clutching hairs, also I do not think we hold Kendall and most likely we then retire a couple of years and will be another incursion more, perhaps preserve some world outermost (Tormentine - Aztenburg or other), another serious possibility that the Marian Hegemony end to annex San Nicolas and Lahti (which are independent).

I think if you remember my previous post, my idea of expansion is advancing slowly but surely absorbing worlds Ruins Circinus and other peripheral worlds

Do not rule out a raid or attack on the Marian Hegemony in the field of Illyria and if we're lucky make the Marians can tell stories Tauro kind Wars reunifications and this will make the MHAF become even harder
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 07 July 2016, 02:28:17
While that might be the case, the weakest neighbor that has been causing problems IS the Marian Hegemony.  By 3150 Regulus has been re-integrated, thus no longer a hostile border and does consolidate internal lines of communication.

Andurien has been picking off independent worlds between it and what was the Fiefs.  Its backed up by the Cappies and MoC, and even if the Cappies are involved with the Republic the MoC has nothing going on.

The Crusader Wolves and their Empire?  They are also playing with the Republic and the Falcons, so far Jessica and likely her successors, have shown no inclination to poke the sleeping dog of that border.

Which leaves the Marians as the only ones who have been attacking the neoLeague recently . . . and coincidentally the weakest.

This is one of the reasons I'm glad TRO 3150 might be retconned out. They really wrote themselves into a corner.

There are no details about the Regulans being reconquered, but I am very curious as to how the neoFWL managed to pull that off with the Marians, Lyrans and Wolves around. The RSMC had a sizeable military as well as a willingness to start throwing nukes if someone tried a full-scale invasion. And the neoFWL navy isn't the FWLN, so they're not going to have anti-missile blankets to protect against nuclear volleys on the invasion transports they're protecting.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 07 July 2016, 08:20:21
This is one of the reasons I'm glad TRO 3150 might be retconned out. They really wrote themselves into a corner.

There are no details about the Regulans being reconquered, but I am very curious as to how the neoFWL managed to pull that off with the Marians, Lyrans and Wolves around. The RSMC had a sizeable military as well as a willingness to start throwing nukes if someone tried a full-scale invasion. And the neoFWL navy isn't the FWLN, so they're not going to have anti-missile blankets to protect against nuclear volleys on the invasion transports they're protecting.

In theory he was using the old technique of the naval blockade, which I find strange is how it worked, if blocked the capital world tell me that the world had no supplies to endure a year or two? it is medium rare, aside one of the last actions that are in the fluff is that nukearon a ship to the Sea Fox and then theoretically surrendered, and a series of defections from the armed forces of Regulus occurs, also many of the Regulus units not think they are very reliable and useful in combat hunger blockades populations and troops do not leave you good memories and love towards making site.
For more than then do public relations campaign throwing food or repairing damaged buildings paraphrasing a well-known series, Regulus Remember
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 07 July 2016, 08:47:31
Regulus had 60 years to build up its naval strength like everyone else. That's plenty of time for Merlin R1s and other Assault DropShips by the squadrons. No way the neoFWL can navally blockade Regulus without stripping its own naval defenses to the bone elsewhere. Then there's still the Regulan nukes, which are deployed on the ground and in space, tube-launched or delivered by missiles.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 07 July 2016, 08:53:46
Regulus had 60 years to build up its naval strength like everyone else. That's plenty of time for Merlin R1s and other Assault DropShips by the squadrons. No way the neoFWL can navally blockade Regulus without stripping its own naval defenses to the bone elsewhere. Then there's still the Regulan nukes, which are deployed on the ground and in space, tube-launched or delivered by missiles.

I tell you what I read, I agree that it means strange that a naval blockade so as well have surrendered, also the situation has not been cheap, personally and in a situation of real world the Regulans units if they were starved and blocked for a long time would not qualify as reliable units for any military operation rather than to garrison and even right there but with the defections that occurred at the end after learning of the surrender, as I said there were one or two units that disappeared with their nukes, no it is something that commanded the quiet NeoFWL have guess, but after the Nuked a ship of the Sea Fox and murder of Jessica
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 07 July 2016, 09:15:41
Which makes you wonder after reading it, where did the Regulan PWS/Assault Dropship squadrons magically disappear to? They fielded entire naval battlegroups during the Jihad, and now 60 years on, they would have many times those ships, even without the WarShips.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 07 July 2016, 09:30:18
This is one of the reasons I'm glad TRO 3150 might be retconned out.
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/2e47bbbf3ee4c19faa8b44f2381e95cc/tumblr_inline_mxznmi3VDJ1r3zat8.png)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 July 2016, 10:49:47
Merlin R1?  Weird, because I want to say it was in the fiction where it talked about how hard it was for the Regulans to get their hands on them because they did not build it but needed to dismantle and rebuild ones they owned.

Going back . . . Wolves are not messing with the League, that border is stable as their attention is elsewhere and the only way they come in conflict is limited Trials with the Protectorate.  Lyrans barely share a border and they are trying to survive.

Finally . . . when has naval strength ever really been built up to proper levels?  The fiction of the time seems to make it seem all the FWL proto-states have trouble getting military equipment.  They also had the problem of the Sea Fox navy being involved.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 07 July 2016, 11:02:01
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/2e47bbbf3ee4c19faa8b44f2381e95cc/tumblr_inline_mxznmi3VDJ1r3zat8.png)

Thanks for beating me to that.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 07 July 2016, 12:14:47
[quote author=Colt Ward link=topic=51329.msg1233235#msg1233235 date=1467832774

The Crusader Wolves and their Empire?  They are also playing with the Republic and the Falcons, so far Jessica and likely her successors, have shown no inclination to poke the sleeping dog of that border.

[/quote]

There are extracts of fluff in the TRO 3150 where wolves attacked two or three worlds of the area near the remnants of the republic, which are Marik, Angel II and a couple more I do not think that wolves let it pass expand your corridor to Terra
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 July 2016, 12:25:50
They launched limited Trials against those worlds- notice who holds all of them, the Clan Protectorate.  We know that since it formed the Protectorate was acting like a Clan and the Wolf Empire treats them as such.  It seemed to be viewed as training exercises just like the Galatean League.  Attacks against the Remnant also serve to train although there the Wolf Empire has slowly been taking worlds to expand against the Fortress walls.

Alaric is focused on two enemies- the Republic and the Jade Falcons, their unit positioning reflects this . . . they will not be opportunistically striking the neo League because the nFWL goes after the Regulans or Marians.

I like the Space Romans, but their window for taking a big step up is gone at the moment.  The only question is how badly the nFWL will hurt the Hegemony when it takes back Kendall and puts troops on that border.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 07 July 2016, 12:27:28
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/2e47bbbf3ee4c19faa8b44f2381e95cc/tumblr_inline_mxznmi3VDJ1r3zat8.png)

Might? As I read somewhere else that BT's "present timeline" (Dark Age & beyond) is becoming aimless due to various issues.

The only thing I want to see is ilClan, but who knows when that's gonna come out.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 07 July 2016, 12:32:26
They launched limited Trials against those worlds- notice who holds all of them, the Clan Protectorate.  We know that since it formed the Protectorate was acting like a Clan and the Wolf Empire treats them as such.  It seemed to be viewed as training exercises just like the Galatean League.  Attacks against the Remnant also serve to train although there the Wolf Empire has slowly been taking worlds to expand against the Fortress walls.

Alaric is focused on two enemies- the Republic and the Jade Falcons, their unit positioning reflects this . . . they will not be opportunistically striking the neo League because the nFWL goes after the Regulans or Marians.

I like the Space Romans, but their window for taking a big step up is gone at the moment.  The only question is how badly the nFWL will hurt the Hegemony when it takes back Kendall and puts troops on that border.


If that I also already said, at the moment the border with Marik will be fortified, Kendall probably miss but I do not move much over there, there's not much more that interests them.
We must as I always say, consolidate progress on all independent worlds out there, and see to consolidate MHAF with a couple of legions more and many more auxiliary
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 07 July 2016, 12:34:59
Might? As I read somewhere else that BT's "present timeline" (Dark Age & beyond) is becoming aimless due to various issues.

The only thing I want to see is ilClan, but who knows when that's gonna come out.

Theoretically read in post News that IlClan would be out in 2017
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 07 July 2016, 12:37:19
Might? As I read somewhere else that BT's "present timeline" (Dark Age & beyond) is becoming aimless due to various issues.

The only thing I want to see is ilClan, but who knows when that's gonna come out.

I'm aware of the ilClan delays, I'm looking for your evidence that a TRO is going to be retconned.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 07 July 2016, 12:38:16
Merlin R1?  Weird, because I want to say it was in the fiction where it talked about how hard it was for the Regulans to get their hands on them because they did not build it but needed to dismantle and rebuild ones they owned.

That was 3090. The Regulans have had Clipperton for decades since 3078. More than half a century of production should give them lots of R1s.

Going back . . . Wolves are not messing with the League, that border is stable as their attention is elsewhere and the only way they come in conflict is limited Trials with the Protectorate.  Lyrans barely share a border and they are trying to survive.

Yes, but leaving your Clan border open is like inviting the wolves for dinner. Pun intended.

Lyrans may not want to invade anymore, but they will step up on raiding if they see the Tamarind border lightly-guarded.

Quote
Finally . . . when has naval strength ever really been built up to proper levels?  The fiction of the time seems to make it seem all the FWL proto-states have trouble getting military equipment.  They also had the problem of the Sea Fox navy being involved.

Nah...the fluff is very erratic on this. They don't have trouble getting military equipment, else they wouldn't have so many new units on top of the post-Jihad rebuilding and constant attrition they've suffered. Sea Fox navy in question is not big enough for blockades of that scale, not if they want to keep a viable economy going.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 07 July 2016, 12:41:04
I'm aware of the ilClan delays, I'm looking for your evidence that a TRO is going to be retconned.

I said might. I did not say will. Because all those behind-the-scenes issues had already froze the original big time jump that was being planned and the fluff seems to be heading into a dead end.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 07 July 2016, 12:43:19

If that I also already said, at the moment the border with Marik will be fortified, Kendall probably miss but I do not move much over there, there's not much more that interests them.
We must as I always say, consolidate progress on all independent worlds out there, and see to consolidate MHAF with a couple of legions more and many more auxiliary

Realistically speaking, the neoFWL will crush the Legions even in their current state. If they ally with the Canopians for a joint invasion, the Hegemony will be conquered bar an outside intervention.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 07 July 2016, 12:43:58
Theoretically read in post News that IlClan would be out in 2017

Hopefully  :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 07 July 2016, 12:46:59
I said might. I did not say will. Because all those behind-the-scenes issues had already froze the original big time jump that was being planned and the fluff seems to be heading into a dead end.

Still waiting for a link to evidence from a trusted source that says backpedaling could happen.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: wantec on 07 July 2016, 14:30:31
Still waiting for a link to evidence from a trusted source that says backpedaling could happen.
And to counter it, I don't think there's anything in TRO3150 that couldn't be massaged in to things even if the path forward changed from ilClan.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 07 July 2016, 15:03:54
And to counter it, I don't think there's anything in TRO3150 that couldn't be massaged in to things even if the path forward changed from ilClan.

Hopefully in advance what the timeline the Marian Hegemony survive and progress towards the periphery there are too many independent worlds out there and this height MH can conquer, assimilate culturally or colonize others. NeoFWL can wait for the best opportunity.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 07 July 2016, 17:19:45
As far as Kendall goes... I think we should take everything that's not mailed down, will fit in our ships and jump back home.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 07 July 2016, 17:29:20
As far as Kendall goes... I think we should take everything that's not mailed down, will fit in our ships and jump back home.

totally agree, what can disarm, take Blueprints, and all of the deposit and retire, maybe I would take some technicians and engineers tourism to the MH
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 08 July 2016, 00:23:04
Just do what the Capellans did during the Jihad, stripping everything from two sites to their own worlds.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 08 July 2016, 00:25:25
And to counter it, I don't think there's anything in TRO3150 that couldn't be massaged in to things even if the path forward changed from ilClan.

That's to be hoped for. The sparse details in Dark Age currently don't help anything at all, yet the time can be taken to make highly-detailed books on the Succession Wars.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 08 July 2016, 00:29:33
All of their neighbors. You know, the folks who've had to deal with aggressive Marians for decades, and wouldn't shed a single tear if some leaked battleROMs led to something...Regulan...happening to them.

I find the whole C3i issue causing discomfort to the Republic rich when those hypocrites are fielding plenty of Blakist designs and even iconic ones like the Kheper, Uraeus, Schrack and Simurgh. Marians don't even need to accept Republic inspectors, and the Regulans always have bigger, more immediate fish to fry.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Archangel on 08 July 2016, 03:21:33
I find the whole C3i issue causing discomfort to the Republic rich when those hypocrites are fielding plenty of Blakist designs and even iconic ones like the Kheper, Uraeus, Schrack and Simurgh. Marians don't even need to accept Republic inspectors, and the Regulans always have bigger, more immediate fish to fry.

Nothing was of more immediate importance to the Regulans than a clear indication of Blakist influence/support.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Maelwys on 08 July 2016, 04:01:45
I find the whole C3i issue causing discomfort to the Republic rich when those hypocrites are fielding plenty of Blakist designs and even iconic ones like the Kheper, Uraeus, Schrack and Simurgh. Marians don't even need to accept Republic inspectors, and the Regulans always have bigger, more immediate fish to fry.

Kheper is neo-ComStar, as is the Uraeus. Schrack and Simurgh are Republic designs. They may have superficially similar aspects to some Blakist designs, but they aren't Blakist designs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sharpnel on 08 July 2016, 05:24:44
<snip>.

The only thing I want to see is ilClan, but who knows when that's gonna come out.
or, at this point, if.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 08 July 2016, 05:47:27
It is currently scheduled for 2017.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Archangel on 08 July 2016, 05:49:36
Kheper is neo-ComStar, as is the Uraeus. Schrack and Simurgh are Republic designs. They may have superficially similar aspects to some Blakist designs, but they aren't Blakist designs.

Not to mention that at this point nobody outside Fortress Republic can positively say who is fielding them.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: wantec on 08 July 2016, 06:27:34
That's to be hoped for. The sparse details in Dark Age currently don't help anything at all, yet the time can be taken to make highly-detailed books on the Succession Wars.
Just curious what kind of DA details are you looking for? Before I became a BT writer I was a big fan of the Dark Age so I might be able to help answer your questions.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 08 July 2016, 09:04:38
Just curious what kind of DA details are you looking for? Before I became a BT writer I was a big fan of the Dark Age so I might be able to help answer your questions.

You may refers to the little detail of the factories producing the Marian Hegemony or mentions some things still left with more questions

We have 3 factories Mechs and 3150 have no idea we produce.

The ATC in Addhara, Hadrain in Pompey and Marian Arms in Alphard or That Aero Fighters are manufactured in the same Hadrian or model battlearmor in Illyria, they said they have factories but we make (beyond the testudo), gave more detail which manufactures factory that was lost with Leximon who own manufacturing factories.

Another fact is that an agricultural planet as New Venice, step by Heavy Industrialized
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 08 July 2016, 23:54:00
Kheper is neo-ComStar, as is the Uraeus. Schrack and Simurgh are Republic designs. They may have superficially similar aspects to some Blakist designs, but they aren't Blakist designs.

Didn't stop the Republic from co-opting them. They remind people of Celestials and Spectrals.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 09 July 2016, 00:15:21
Just curious what kind of DA details are you looking for? Before I became a BT writer I was a big fan of the Dark Age so I might be able to help answer your questions.

What Adacas said.

I'm very curious about many aspects, such as:

1) The Marians' Kendall campaign, if New Avalon is actually conquered, or under invasion(either way, a detailed campaign description)

2) Basically an Objectives 3150. What do the Marians actually build from their known and unknown factories? How far have they expanded since Objectives: Periphery? What did the Horses actually secure from their Tamar conquests? The ambiguous wording in the FM causes one to wonder if it is to be assumed that the Horses produce T-Wolves, T-hawk IIs, Carnivores, Black Wolves, Gargoyles and other choice Wolf units? What ARE the Suns producing since their 3079 Objectives? I'm sorry, but mini-snippets in every TRO since 3085 don't add up to the overall picture. How much have they rebuilt by 3130? How much industrial expansion took place since the Dark Age?

3) The "current" time is 3150. There is a TRO for that year with more mini-snippets that leave you with more questions without actually answering much. But no campaign sourcebook like FCCW that actually details what is being alluded to in the TRO. No FM that details the frantic rebuilding/reactivation efforts of the militaries.

4) And of course, the rather unconvincing way that the Combine is, in effect, making First Succession War-style mass conquests with such a paper tiger military and continually advancing without the Blackout or massive insurgency problems hampering them. For all the mentions of such insurgencies in the FM and the virtual wiping out of some of their Mech regiments' conventional supporting units, they can still make it to New Avalon by 3150 and potentially conquer it? Come on, even the Lyrans managed to force the two strongest Crusader Clans off their capital, and the AFFS can't do that with the quality of units defending theirs?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 09 July 2016, 07:11:56
What ArkRoyalRavager said ! Please :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: wantec on 09 July 2016, 08:57:06
So items 1, 3, & 4 are all covered in varying amount of detail in ilClan. Unfortunately, that means you all have to wait for that.

The other one I can work on gathering the info for you guys.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 09 July 2016, 10:24:49
Another Objectives series is incredibly, insanely, astronomically unlikely. From what I understand, the devs found the whole project a huge pain in the ass, far too much work for minor fringe products. Much like the Handbooks, the series was completed only because leaving it uncompleted would be a constant irritation.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 09 July 2016, 11:01:12
So items 1, 3, & 4 are all covered in varying amount of detail in ilClan. Unfortunately, that means you all have to wait for that.

The other one I can work on gathering the info for you guys.

Thanks for the answer and your attempt to get some data that we can add to our production equation

And if you can collect some info on what occurs in the new factories and already had serious progress because all new local production (Marauder battle armor - Testudo Siege Tank), are produced in factories already known Alphard and Horatius.
The only thing that could theorize is that the Shreck CPP and Galleon produced in Leximon when this produces an expansion of capabilities can also be constructed so at Alphard and Addhara but little further we can go and it is a bit frustrating to know that we have 3 Mech factorys but beyond the Coamndo-the Locust and the Centurion Retrotech all built from 3075 know nothing more we build from that year onwards
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 09 July 2016, 17:54:51
Interestingly fluff of McVeddy Folly, it seems to 3130 a protectorate of the MOC, the MH and The Republic, it seems that in 3070 Forces of MHAF destroy a group of mercs and troops WoB that there had an interesting laboratory of things very bad and planetary terraforming technology
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 09 July 2016, 21:18:19
So items 1, 3, & 4 are all covered in varying amount of detail in ilClan. Unfortunately, that means you all have to wait for that.

The other one I can work on gathering the info for you guys.

Thank you very much for taking the effort to do this wantec

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 09 July 2016, 21:23:37
Another Objectives series is incredibly, insanely, astronomically unlikely. From what I understand, the devs found the whole project a huge pain in the ass, far too much work for minor fringe products. Much like the Handbooks, the series was completed only because leaving it uncompleted would be a constant irritation.

Why not consolidate all those separate products into one book with just production lists and company updates. That planetary information will be unlikely this time around, saving up lots of page space for the real meat which is just what is being produced where.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 09 July 2016, 21:24:48
And if you can collect some info on what occurs in the new factories and already had serious progress because all new local production (Marauder battle armor - Testudo Siege Tank), are produced in factories already known Alphard and Horatius.
The only thing that could theorize is that the Shreck CPP and Galleon produced in Leximon when this produces an expansion of capabilities can also be constructed so at Alphard and Addhara but little further we can go and it is a bit frustrating to know that we have 3 Mech factorys but beyond the Coamndo-the Locust and the Centurion Retrotech all built from 3075 know nothing more we build from that year onwards

Presumably the Centurion line would be Succession Wars or Star League-technology by 3130, given the amount of tech in the Testudo.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Archangel on 09 July 2016, 21:55:34
Why not consolidate all those separate products into one book with just production lists and company updates. That planetary information will be unlikely this time around, saving up lots of page space for the real meat which is just what is being produced where.

It would still be a major pain compiling all the information especially with everything they are already working on (ilClan, 2nd Succession War, etc) not to mention all the chaos going on in the Inner Sphere.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 10 July 2016, 00:48:04
Like I said, when the Dark Age is still...dark, one wonders how the time can be taken to compile the highly-detailed historicals.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 10 July 2016, 08:50:32
Yes it's a pain to compile and fill out, but it drives me crazy when any faction gets a teaser like " .... has built x new production lines....." and then doesn't say what is produced. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 10 July 2016, 09:00:31
You know they do that on purpose, right?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 10 July 2016, 10:11:56
Indeed I do that's why I keep buying fluff books :). Still drives me nuts. ;)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 10 July 2016, 10:32:18
Go ask in the Devs forum what the odds of a book with Objectives-level production data is. I dare you. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 10 July 2016, 11:12:15
Yes I know the chances are somewhere between snowballs in Hell to nil, but I guy can dream and drool.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 10 July 2016, 17:16:44
Yes it's a pain to compile and fill out, but it drives me crazy when any faction gets a teaser like " .... has built x new production lines....." and then doesn't say what is produced. :)

Not that the total production, what bothers me is that all the other factions at least told them what produccian in at least half of its factories, well thank us we found out we had 2/3 new factories, appears one that had already was producing mech or parts of mechs, but no further details and Testudo nor the Marauder account because they are not manufactured in any of the factories mentioned but others that were and told us where in the TRO, in the Field Manual nothing other than "the factories are there or here"

I'll settle who say such and such a model manufactured in such and such a model manufactured tank or aero or Battlearmor
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 11 July 2016, 00:15:58
Yes it's a pain to compile and fill out, but it drives me crazy when any faction gets a teaser like " .... has built x new production lines....." and then doesn't say what is produced. :)

Same. That is why they should stop giving loyal fans crappy writeups in the FMs and give us paragraphs of hard data.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 11 July 2016, 09:14:43
...huh? ???
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 July 2016, 09:51:29
I cannot look but didn't the TRO3145/3150 series drop the single line about where things were manufactured?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 11 July 2016, 10:04:01
I cannot look but didn't the TRO3145/3150 series drop the single line about where things were manufactured?

No, the new factories of the MH not put anything beyond that are there and they make mech and tanks but nothing of any model, in contrast to Filvet if they put
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 July 2016, 10:09:29
No, what I am talking about is the TRO entry, in the stat block.  They used to say where something was made . . . that line was removed for the DA series of TROs IIRC.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 11 July 2016, 10:23:41
No, what I am talking about is the TRO entry, in the stat block.  They used to say where something was made . . . that line was removed for the DA series of TROs IIRC.

I think only in the case of Testudo, and is manufactured in Alphard and Marauder in Horatius, factories Addhara and Illyria know nothing or any other manufactures, but those data are in the TRO, in the fieldmanual 3145 say nothing on production in any factory, except casually was lost in Leximon, who say it is a factory that broad capabilities Addhara, so I theorize that perhaps occurs in the part of tanks of Addhara Schreck and Galleon manufactured more reinforced components
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 11 July 2016, 10:41:32
The TRO does keep the factory data. Looking at the original 3145 pdfs, it's in the same place as it's always been.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: wantec on 11 July 2016, 10:51:59
The TRO does keep the factory data. Looking at the original 3145 pdfs, it's in the same place as it's always been.
Except for warships, dropships, small craft, etc.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 11 July 2016, 10:54:13
Nothing new there. Unless it got mentioned in the fluff, I don't think TROs ever gave us shipyard data, why do you expect them to start now?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: wantec on 11 July 2016, 14:05:49
Nothing new there. Unless it got mentioned in the fluff, I don't think TROs ever gave us shipyard data, why do you expect them to start now?
Not expecting things to change, it just seemed odd that it would get done for aerospace fighters and pretty much everything ground-based.


Going back to the matter of what factories the Marians have, I've found the Marauder Battle Armor and Ravager Battle Armor on Horatius. The Testudo on Alphard. Those were all in TROs. XTRO RetroTech has the (primitive) CN9-H Centurion as built on Alphard.

Other than that, Objectives: Periphery has most of it covered. Of course, set in 3080, FM:3085 and FM:3145 have upgrades on it. Field Manual: 3085 said that the ATC RetroTech lines on Alphard were upgraded to standard introductory (or better) tech levels. Specifically mentioned were Commandos and Locusts. Field Manual: 3145 says the ATC lines on Addhara were producing combat vehicles as well as BattleMechs as of 3099. And a new Battle Armor line was established on Illyria around 3139.

I know RATs aren't the be-all, end-all of availability, but the ones in FM:3085 do give a few insights. Listed is the CN9-Ar Centurion, a 'Mech that shows up in Record Sheets:3085 - Old is the New New, without a description in the TRO of where it came from. The only other RAT where this 'Mech shows up is the "Periphery (General/Lesser States)". To me that combined with the other statements leads me to believe the CN9-Ar is a Marian creation.

One other line I found interesting was Alphard Trading Company, listed as a co-manufacturer of the Quasimodo. Kendall was the only factory world listed, but it's possible that ATC has their own line, or at least their own set of plans (since that's such a high-tech design).

Hope this helps some.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 11 July 2016, 14:19:12
Not expecting things to change, it just seemed odd that it would get done for aerospace fighters and pretty much everything ground-based.


Going back to the matter of what factories the Marians have, I've found the Marauder Battle Armor and Ravager Battle Armor on Horatius. The Testudo on Alphard. Those were all in TROs. XTRO RetroTech has the (primitive) CN9-H Centurion as built on Alphard.

Other than that, Objectives: Periphery has most of it covered. Of course, set in 3080, FM:3085 and FM:3145 have upgrades on it. Field Manual: 3085 said that the ATC RetroTech lines on Alphard were upgraded to standard introductory (or better) tech levels. Specifically mentioned were Commandos and Locusts. Field Manual: 3145 says the ATC lines on Addhara were producing combat vehicles as well as BattleMechs as of 3099. And a new Battle Armor line was established on Illyria around 3139.

I know RATs aren't the be-all, end-all of availability, but the ones in FM:3085 do give a few insights. Listed is the CN9-Ar Centurion, a 'Mech that shows up in Record Sheets:3085 - Old is the New New, without a description in the TRO of where it came from. The only other RAT where this 'Mech shows up is the "Periphery (General/Lesser States)". To me that combined with the other statements leads me to believe the CN9-Ar is a Marian creation.

One other line I found interesting was Alphard Trading Company, listed as a co-manufacturer of the Quasimodo. Kendall was the only factory world listed, but it's possible that ATC has their own line, or at least their own set of plans (since that's such a high-tech design).

Hope this helps some.

Help and much !, Thank you for giving us some news

I may abuse a bit of your help? in 3150 TRO include 2 other versions with Fluff of the Marian Hegemony could be that these models also are manufactured in factories by purchasing the MH License?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 July 2016, 14:45:04
We're producing the Quaz? And the CN-9Ar? Exxxxcellent.

 That centurion should be easy enough for us to produce. Standard engine, no xl... trooper speed... and enough reloads on the lrm to carry multiple ammo types.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 11 July 2016, 15:22:27
I wonder if it might build the Dr versions also type the Commando and the Dervish
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 11 July 2016, 15:30:02
We're producing the Quaz?
or are major partners in the construction at the Kendall factory site. either way, the that gives the Marian's a really nasty Medium
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 July 2016, 15:34:57
Almost makes me want to play DA 😂
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 July 2016, 16:30:10
Yeah, I am at work so I was not looking at the PDFs to see if that line was still on.

The Centurion 9Ar is IMO better than the 6/9 D . . . part of the reason I like the overweight CN10-B.  Wherever they were building the hybrid CN9-H is probably what started making the 9-Ar, with the old hybrids converted if possible or sold to client states & mercs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 11 July 2016, 16:48:49
Good for a trainer too.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 11 July 2016, 19:45:11
I'd be very happy with the upgraded Centurion, nice punch and easy to produce.

ATC on Kendall has been in Mark hands for centuries,  predating the reborn Marian ATC. Likely one of the goals of the Kendall invasion was to reunite the two under one banner.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 11 July 2016, 21:11:51
...huh? ???

Quote
What do the Marians actually build from their known and unknown factories? How far have they expanded since Objectives: Periphery? What did the Horses actually secure from their Tamar conquests? The ambiguous wording in the FM causes one to wonder if it is to be assumed that the Horses produce T-Wolves, T-hawk IIs, Carnivores, Black Wolves, Gargoyles and other choice Wolf units? What ARE the Suns producing since their 3079 Objectives? I'm sorry, but mini-snippets in every TRO since 3085 don't add up to the overall picture. How much have they rebuilt by 3130? How much industrial expansion took place since the Dark Age?

Basically the FMs, even though their "State of Industry" sections are the only source on such things, are really crappy for certain non-creator's pet factions when it comes to giving hard data. FM:3085 is still excusable because the Objectives came out right before it, but FM:3145 is not.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 11 July 2016, 21:42:22
Tell me what the MH really produces... as in a TO&E of the realm.

I find:

Vehicle
AC/2 Carrier
Laser Carrier
Tracked APC
Harasser
SRM Carrier
Gladius
J. Edgar
Maultier 
Fulcrum
Goblin Medium Tank
Schrek PPC Carrier
Testudo

Aerospace
Shilone

Battlemech
LCT-1 V2 Locust
COM-4H Commando
CN9-H Centurion Primitive
MAD-4H Marauder II

Battle Armor
Ravager
Marauder

Infantry
Ceremonial Guard
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ceremonial_Guard_(Marian_Hegemony) (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ceremonial_Guard_(Marian_Hegemony))
Foot and Motorized units use 10 Squads of 10
Jump units use 5 Squads of 10
Battle Armor units use 1 Squad of 5

Items made for possible trade :
Harvester 2K  ~Shipped to Pinard for Thunderbolt, Battle Hawk & Plainsman also to Taurus for Thunderbolt

What else do they make or possible trade?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Archangel on 11 July 2016, 22:36:43
Basically the FMs, even though their "State of Industry" sections are the only source on such things, are really crappy for certain non-creator's pet factions when it comes to giving hard data. FM:3085 is still excusable because the Objectives came out right before it, but FM:3145 is not.

So basically you are saying that they have spoiled you with the Objectives series.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 July 2016, 01:38:18
Truetanker I can think of a few flaws with that list . . .

Vehicles
Harasser- produced by neighboring FWL for years, likely picked up in trade or raiding
Maultier- Thought it was a TC exclusive, something they were producing after finding examples but then sold or traded, especially in the wake of the periphery arms agreement
Fulcrum- One of the FedSuns 'new' hovertanks in the 3060s, probably bought used for refurb by the Marian salvage buyers

Mech
Marauder II -4H, pretty sure this was a hand rebuild of old L1 Marauder IIs they got a hold of, not fresh production

Left off?
Icarus II- thought this came up somewhere
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 12 July 2016, 04:33:27
So basically you are saying that they have spoiled you with the Objectives series.

No. What I'm saying is if they're going to write such sections in the FM, do it properly by giving every faction an even and informative treatment.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jackson123 on 12 July 2016, 08:12:34
Most production would be limited to low numbers. maybe less the 12 a year.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 July 2016, 08:26:11
Tell me what the MH really produces... as in a TO&E of the realm.

I find:

Vehicle
AC/2 Carrier
Laser Carrier
Tracked APC
Harasser
SRM Carrier
Gladius
J. Edgar
Maultier 
Fulcrum
Goblin Medium Tank
Schrek PPC Carrier
Testudo

Aerospace
Shilone

Battlemech
LCT-1 V2 Locust
COM-4H Commando
CN9-H Centurion Primitive
MAD-4H Marauder II

Battle Armor
Ravager
Marauder

Infantry
Ceremonial Guard
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ceremonial_Guard_(Marian_Hegemony) (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ceremonial_Guard_(Marian_Hegemony))
Foot and Motorized units use 10 Squads of 10
Jump units use 5 Squads of 10
Battle Armor units use 1 Squad of 5

Items made for possible trade :
Harvester 2K  ~Shipped to Pinard for Thunderbolt, Battle Hawk & Plainsman also to Taurus for Thunderbolt

What else do they make or possible trade?

TT

Fonts: MPS : Mayor Periphery States -

Your TOE is incomplete

Alphard

Marian Arms Inc: Tank Factory (J-27 Ordenace Transport, Gladius Gladius II, Dreadnought Mk II Tractor Module, Maultier Hovertank, Heavy LRM Carrier, APC Hover, APC Whelled, Rocket Launchers, anti-personnel mines, static gun emplacements, personal . weapons, TAG Light, Support CPP, recoiless Heavy Light Rifle Rifle recoiless, ERLM, HVOC CA-2, CA- HVOC 5,Arrow IV Launcher, Advanced Fire Control and small-arms ammunition) Objetives Raids - FM 3145 - Experimental TRO Periphery
Alphard Trading Corporation: Tank Factory (J E Hoover, Fulcrum Testudo Assault Tank (Arrow IV) Objetives Raids - FM 3145
Alphard Trading Corporation: Minerals Division (Germanium, coltan, uranium, marble Alphard) MPS
Marian Arms Inc: Primitives Mech Factory (Centurion, Icarus, Emperor, Archer) Objetives Raids - MUL Database (Archer)
Marian Arms Inc - Battlemech Factory (Gladiator - GLD-5R) MUL Database

Marian Arms Repair: Workshops Where mechs are assembled Where was mechs adaptations of RL (Marauder II - 4H, Whithworth-4H, JagerMech - JM6-H - Goliath GOL-6H) Objetives Raids
Alphard Trading Corporation: Mech Factory (Locust LC1v2 - Command-4H) FM 3085
Alphard Trading Corporation: Primitives Mech Factory (Centurion) Objetives Raids - Retrotech
Electronics Industry - Marian Electronics Inc (Communications systems, targeting systems and missile guidance)

Horatius

Marian Arms Incs: Batllearmour Factory (? Ravager, Marauder,) 3085 Supplemental ORT - ORT 3145 Mercenaries
Pontifex Petrochemicals Ltd (Petroquimic Industry) MPS
Pontifex Petrochemicals Ltd (Refineries) MPS
Marian Mining Ltd. (Germanium - Litium) MPS

Pompeii

Hadrian Incorpored: Tank Factory (Armored Personel Carrier, Harasser, Harasser Platform, Harasser Hovercraft, Light SRM Carrier, Carrier Laser, LBX 2 Carrier, Heavy LRM Carrier, APC Hover, Whelled APC, APC Tracked) Starcorps Dossiers - Objetives Raids
Hadrian Incorpored: Aerospace Factory: (Shilone) Starcorps Dossiers
Hadrian Incorporated (Personal Light Weapons, Weapons Support, Mortars, SRM Portatiles, Rocket Launchers - ER Lasers for mech and light, medium and heavy fighters) Starcorps Dossiers - Objetives Raids

 Electronic Industries - Marian Electronics Inc (Communications systems, targeting systems and missile guidance) MPS
Hadrian Mechworks Incorpored: Objetives Raids-Field Manual 3145 (IV Legion Fluff)
Alphard Trading Corporation Mining Division Industrial diamonds, fire opals, Germanium) MPS
Suetonius

Octavian Heavy Metal Steel Industries Corporation and Rare Metals Refinery (Armor for Mechs and Tanks) Controled by Alphard Trading Corporation (Ferro Carbon - aluminum Ferro - Ferro-fiber) MPS

Bacallieu

TECHWIZARDS, Ltd: Reconstructive and assembler mechs, Equipment Salvage and Repair Services Battlefield
Naval Training School Techmech and Technical MPS
Electronics Industry - Marian Electronics Inc (Communications systems, targeting systems and missile guidance)

Illyria

Alphard Trading Corporation FM 3145
Electronics Industry - Marian Electronics Inc (Communications systems, targeting systems and missile guidance)
Imperium Romanum Tours (Tourism and Recreation) MPS
Gladiatorum Mechs (Tourism and Leisure) MPS

Trondheimal

Trondheimal Iron and Steel Industries Ltd. Heavy Metal (Armor for Mechs and Tanks) MPS
Trondheimal Iron and Steel Ltd (Metals Refineries) (Ferro-carbon - aluminum Ferro - Ferro-fiber) MPS
Trondheimal Iron and Steel Ltd (Division Extractions - Titanium - Carbon - Iron - Uranium) MPS

Addhara

Alphard Trading Corporation (Fulcrum Factory ?, Tanks (J.Ed Hoover Fulcrum III ?, Goblin Schreck) FM 3145 - Conjectures and Questions???
Alphard Trading Corporation: Factory Battlemech () FM 3145 - Conjectures and Questions
Fidelis Metals (Heavy Metal industries (Armor of Mechs, Tanks & Aerospace Fighters, Advanced Armor) MPS -
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 July 2016, 08:32:00
Truetanker I can think of a few flaws with that list . . .

Vehicles
Harasser- produced by neighboring FWL for years, likely picked up in trade or raiding
Maultier- Thought it was a TC exclusive, something they were producing after finding examples but then sold or traded, especially in the wake of the periphery arms agreement
Fulcrum- One of the FedSuns 'new' hovertanks in the 3060s, probably bought used for refurb by the Marian salvage buyers

Mech
Marauder II -4H, pretty sure this was a hand rebuild of old L1 Marauder IIs they got a hold of, not fresh production

Left off?
Icarus II- thought this came up somewhere

The Icarus II as well as other early mech appear in Objetives Raids construction in 3075 and Alphard

The Fulcrum builds the Marian Hegemony, to be exact builds the ATC since 3060 about

The Maultier: the Taurian Concordat sold the building permit also contained in Objetives Raids or Starcopts Dossiers I do not remember well

The Harasser: either version as the Hover platform is built by Hadrain Incorporated in Pompey
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 July 2016, 08:35:08
Most production would be limited to low numbers. maybe less the 12 a year.

Under source of information that you say that the production is so low a year?

Both testudo, as battlearmour its production is large enough to sell a lot number on the mercenary market and even some states marik
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 July 2016, 08:42:27
Ah yeah, the Primitive Emperor, I knew there was a assault that was slipping my mind.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 July 2016, 08:54:58
So according to what Wantec tells us must be added to the list at Centurion-AR and Quasimodo to the list of production, perhaps the Quasimodo a version with less advanced technology available
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 July 2016, 09:18:34
So far there is only 1 canon version of the Quasimodo. Until another one with lower we have to assume it's the standard version.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 July 2016, 09:25:51
Lol, I used a Quasimodo on the table . . . it was a bit disappointing since no one had PPCs and I did not let it get hot enough to use TSM.  Otherwise its a fine mech and I think really follows the old Hunchback's bodyguard role.  Between it and the Scapha G armed with Med VSPL I became a fan of VSPLs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jackson123 on 12 July 2016, 09:27:52
Was meaning mech production on the side like from small building shops. I am not sure on what the numbers producted in the factories would be?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 July 2016, 09:35:45
Was meaning mech production on the side like from small building shops. I am not sure on what the numbers producted in the factories would be?

Factories in 3025 produced 12 to 24 per month not per year
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 July 2016, 09:42:57
Factories in 3025 produced 12 to 24 per month not per year

 That depends on which version of 3025 we're talking about😉. But yes, some probably did that many while some did much fewer.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 12 July 2016, 09:54:30
Lol, I used a Quasimodo on the table . . . it was a bit disappointing since no one had PPCs and I did not let it get hot enough to use TSM.  Otherwise its a fine mech and I think really follows the old Hunchback's bodyguard role.  Between it and the Scapha G armed with Med VSPL I became a fan of VSPLs.

Having seen a Quasimodo take down a Marauder IIC almost by itself, I will never discount their lethality.

Was meaning mech production on the side like from small building shops. I am not sure on what the numbers producted in the factories would be?

For both small workshops and major factories, discrete production numbers are something the devs have repeatedly said they will NEVER publish. All facilities manufacture their products at the rate needed by the plot, no more, no less. They learned their lessons when older products had production rates with access to actual 31st century economic data, and fans would beat them over the heads with the resulting universe inconsistencies.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 July 2016, 10:14:19
Oh it still worked well, but when someone who usually brought PPCs decided not to it sort of robbed the Quasi of some glory.  It was holding the right flank of my Lament against two other mediums- made one break off from damage while getting physical with the other faster med.  Which is why I was regretting the lack of heat for TSM.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: wantec on 12 July 2016, 12:16:58
Just to clarify before everyone runs off further on the Quasimodo and CN9-Ar, I only said signs point towards those conclusions. Looking at the availability lists in the MUL, the CN9-Ar does show up for the "Jihad 3068-3085" and "Early Republic 3086-3100" time frames. From that we know the Marian Hegemony has access to it, but we don't know for certain if it's built by them. I'd like to think so, but we don't know.

The only tie to the Quasimodo is that one manufacturer name link in the TRO, it's not on the MUL for that era, but that era isn't completed yet. Since we don't have more info in the case of Quasimodo, we can only guess until it's decided either way by some future story or product.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 July 2016, 12:28:49
Just to clarify before everyone runs off further on the Quasimodo and CN9-Ar, I only said signs point towards those conclusions. Looking at the availability lists in the MUL, the CN9-Ar does show up for the "Jihad 3068-3085" and "Early Republic 3086-3100" time frames. From that we know the Marian Hegemony has access to it, but we don't know for certain if it's built by them. I'd like to think so, but we don't know.

The only tie to the Quasimodo is that one manufacturer name link in the TRO, it's not on the MUL for that era, but that era isn't completed yet. Since we don't have more info in the case of Quasimodo, we can only guess until it's decided either way by some future story or product.

Since we are with that, you can theorize the same of CN9-Ar Centurion on its origin and construction on the following mechs: COM-Dr Commando, DV-6MR Dervish, WHD-6RB Warhammer? Because I find no mention of where they are built
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jackson123 on 12 July 2016, 12:37:04
production lines on addhara as of 3099.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 July 2016, 12:46:16
production lines on addhara as of 3099.

but Pompey lines and Alphard come from before 3085 or so
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 12 July 2016, 12:48:32
I believe most of the -r mechs are not new construction, but rebuilds of existing old chassis. So the CN9-Ar is a refit of existing 3025-vintage CN9-A mechs. There would not be a factory.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 July 2016, 12:52:15
I believe most of the -r mechs are not new construction, but rebuilds of existing old chassis. So the CN9-Ar is a refit of existing 3025-vintage CN9-A mechs. There would not be a factory.

Being that if (what the mecha R), that could be inferred based on the COM-4H we could have evolved such that other design?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 12 July 2016, 12:55:59
No offense, but...huh? ???
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 July 2016, 13:01:01
No offense, but...huh? ???

That having the ability to build the COM-4H Commando could build the COM-2Dr Commando?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jackson123 on 12 July 2016, 13:34:54
That having the ability to build the COM-4H Commando could build the COM-2Dr Commando?

Makes sense they would be able to build both.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 12 July 2016, 13:55:51
That having the ability to build the COM-4H Commando could build the COM-2Dr Commando?

My policy is to always assume the answer is no, until a book explicitly says so. I apply this to all things, not just Marian Commandos.

Disclaimer: This only happens when I care about mech production figures enough to allocate brain-time to them.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 12 July 2016, 14:54:01
Factories in 3025 produced 12 to 24 per month not per year
Huh?  In '25, the Corean factory on New Avalon produced around 11 Valkyries a month (130/year), and it was considered a marvel, the most productive factory in the nation.  By contrast, Quentin produced only 5 Atlases a year.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 July 2016, 15:19:12
For the Cent 9-Ar . . . I figured they had either gotten or put together kits to refit all the hybrid CN9-Hs they were using.  And it would make sense for that factory producing the hybrids to be upgraded to full CN9-Ar . . . but logic and BTU are not always horses in the same yoke headed the same direction.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 12 July 2016, 15:28:06
The whole point of the CN9-Ar is that it's a relatively easy refit from the commonplace CN9-A. In StratOps terms, how easy is it to turn a CN9-H into a CN-9Ar?

I rather doubt any -Hs are getting turned into -Ars. I think instead any -As the Legions have are getting turned into -Ars, and -Hs are left alone, either related to militia units, or sold off.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 12 July 2016, 16:00:04
Yes, but those 8 are of much better quality😉. Hand tooled leather dash board, chrome accents to all the gauges, a sultry computer voice, Holden weapon fittings... you know, all the finer things.

 Wait... was that my inner Steiner coming out again? 😂
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 July 2016, 16:26:02
At work so bear with me . . .

The differences would be in . . . engine, cockpit and structure?  Maybe smaller LRM rack?

Edit- Looked it up quick . . .

Primitive armor & Engine and RL10s vs DHS, HPPC/LPPC, LRMs and a rear MPL . . .

For some reason I thought it kept the LB-10X.  Like I said, I think the CN10-B should have been the weapons upgrade (minus ArtIV) for the 3050 Centurion.  But this is, by the new rules, a simpler refit than I was originally thinking since it has Std IS with the armor being what gets replaced.  Its a big club they carry but not as useful as the LB-10X on the 9-H.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 12 July 2016, 16:42:20
Looking at the two...you have to remove and replace EVERYTHING except the skeleton, gyro, and one medium laser.

Even including shipping, it's probably cheaper to keep your -H as it is, buy a -A from some militia or small time merc, upgrade that, and find yourself owning two perfectly good Centurions.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 12 July 2016, 16:59:01
Looking at the two...you have to remove and replace EVERYTHING except the skeleton, gyro, and one medium laser.

Even including shipping, it's probably cheaper to keep your -H as it is, buy a -A from some militia or small time merc, upgrade that, and find yourself owning two perfectly good Centurions.

I thought primitive structure was different from standard, too.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 July 2016, 17:27:38
I think so, but the CN9-H is a hybrid . . . it has some Prim (engine & armor), Intro (ML, IS, cockpit, SHS, gyro) and Advanced (LB-10X, RLs-lol) tech.  What I read said the structure was standard so it would not have to be replaced and if you look at the art provided it mostly looks the same as the CN9-A's intro series designs.

Between the two . . . its a engine (with DHS) swap that takes up less space, re-armor with standard grade, and a big weapon change over.  The whole head assembly (cockpit, sensors, life support) seems to be standard.  From the rules, its not a complicated factory upgrade (armor vs IS change) which is why I said they could ship out kits . . .

 . . . but I sort of agree with Herr Weirdo- the HPPC blows the big holes in things on point while the 9-H's LBX pokes the insides to get crits and keep vehicles off the Cent carrying that big club.  They would work well together in the field.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 12 July 2016, 20:09:33
Don't forget, the cockpit is also primitive.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 July 2016, 20:44:25
Is it?  What I was finding was not saying which made me think I was remembering it wrongly.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 12 July 2016, 21:17:15
It was listed as such when I looked in XTRO retro.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 13 July 2016, 07:24:36
The (r) designs are always refits.

If you guys remember we players could submit designs to the writers at that time, and the changes to each design had to be minimal.

So the CN9-Ar is a just a refit of the old Centurion, people trying to make it useful for the modern battlefield. I doubt there are factories building them when they simply could turn out a new design.

Also guys, remember, as long as it is not written down in a product all you come up with is just headcanon/homebrew.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 July 2016, 08:14:46
Yes the CN9-Ar is a refit of those remaining 3025 Centurions, simpler than the D kits in the early 50s if any of those are still around in the early 70s.  However the Marians are building a hybrid Centurion which as stated in previous posts uses components from 3 tech 'bases' then improving that production line to the CN9-Ar is a good move for them.  They maybe the only place not building Ds or better, which means making their line a 9-Ar is a 'new' design if they are not just making/buying kits for the old 3025 Centurions they have on hand.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 July 2016, 08:46:53
From what I read in the XTRO Retrotech, Armor, Cockpit and Reactor they are Primitive.
Medium laser, the LBX-10, RL, Gyro and radiators are more modern.
I estimate that in the new model may have put double radiators, fusion reactor "modern" and Light Ferro Fibra
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 13 July 2016, 10:01:43
Yes the CN9-Ar is a refit of those remaining 3025 Centurions, simpler than the D kits in the early 50s if any of those are still around in the early 70s.  However the Marians are building a hybrid Centurion which as stated in previous posts uses components from 3 tech 'bases' then improving that production line to the CN9-Ar is a good move for them.  They maybe the only place not building Ds or better, which means making their line a 9-Ar is a 'new' design if they are not just making/buying kits for the old 3025 Centurions they have on hand.

Where's your source that they've upgraded the -H line?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: wantec on 13 July 2016, 11:09:17
Where's your source that they've upgraded the -H line?
There's no specifics that the -H line was upgraded, only that unspecified retrotech 'Mech lines were upgraded standard/intro tech lines.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 13 July 2016, 11:28:11
There's no info on the centurion H in the DA on the MUL. So I guess we'll have to wait until either the MUL updates or assume it's not being produced.

 There are entries for other DA units, so I think we just need to wait for more info. I want to say I appreciate the folks working on the MUL and their efforts. It's really been a boon.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 July 2016, 11:34:47
There's no info on the centurion H in the DA on the MUL. So I guess we'll have to wait until either the MUL updates or assume it's not being produced.

 There are entries for other DA units, so I think we just need to wait for more info. I want to say I appreciate the folks working on the MUL and their efforts. It's really been a boon.

It's a great job of MUL, hopefully soon update periods missing, I wonder if it would be too problematic if put some mech is being produced in this or that state by rinsing with a single letter or symbol as a factory
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 13 July 2016, 11:37:45
There's no specifics that the -H line was upgraded...

Thanks, that's all I needed to hear.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 July 2016, 12:07:21
Ugh, this is where answering different drifts in the thread causes problems

Weirdo- when I answered I was not saying the line got upgraded.  I was answering Maritus saying that he doubts any production lines would produce the 9-Ar instead of a newer/better design.  My point was that compared to what the Marians were already producing in the 9-H with its primitive components the 9-Ar is actually a upgraded factory IF it was done.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 13 July 2016, 12:33:55
It's a great job of MUL, hopefully soon update periods missing, I wonder if it would be too problematic if put some mech is being produced in this or that state by rinsing with a single letter or symbol as a factory
I'm sorry, what?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 July 2016, 13:41:06
I wonder if it would not be too much trouble to put me being produced in either state, with a single letter or symbol as a factory I think it would be enough


EJ: Marian Hegemony

 CN9-Ar    - Build - Drawing Factory

Sorry my bad english
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Archangel on 13 July 2016, 14:58:09
It's a great job of MUL, hopefully soon update periods missing, I wonder if it would be too problematic if put some mech is being produced in this or that state by rinsing with a single letter or symbol as a factory

I wonder if it would not be too much trouble to put me being produced in either state, with a single letter or symbol as a factory I think it would be enough


EJ: Marian Hegemony

 CN9-Ar    - Build - Drawing Factory

Yes it probably would be too problematic.  Too many factories, too many designs/variants.  Ensuring that the information entered is accurate would be a huge headache for something they are already providing for free.  It is already a big enough headache updating the MUL each time a new TRO gets released.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 July 2016, 15:20:15
Yes it probably would be too problematic.  Too many factories, too many designs/variants.  Ensuring that the information entered is accurate would be a huge headache for something they are already providing for free.  It is already a big enough headache updating the MUL each time a new TRO gets released.

It was a good idea, if you can not, you can not
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 13 July 2016, 20:06:46
Here's a production list from our earlier threads. Is there anything I missed?

Mechs
Locust, Commando, Icarus (Primative), Centurion (Retro) , Gladiator (Primative), Emperor (Primative),

Tanks
 APC's, Maultier, Harasser, J.E. Hover, Gladius, Gladius II, Fulcrum, Testudo, SRM, Laser, AC2 Carrier, Hvy LRM Carrier (was in the works as of 3085)

BA
Marauder and Ravager

Fighters
Shilone
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 13 July 2016, 20:22:27
There's a list a bit further up.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 13 July 2016, 20:54:24
Yes but this list is just a bare bones of what's produced. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 14 July 2016, 08:00:04
This'll give you some idea of what we have available at least.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=35&EraId=16
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 14 July 2016, 08:02:48
Yes but this list is just a bare bones of what's produced. :)

I would add to that list as potentially built to Schreck and the Goblin, as the factory Leximon officially built for the ATC is an expansion of production of Addhara
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 14 July 2016, 08:56:18
Mechs
Locust, Commando, Icarus (Primative), Centurion (Retro) , Gladiator (Primative), Emperor (Primative),

Giant Space Roman Ape-Robots sounds epic. [rockon]
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 14 July 2016, 09:25:51
Wait... which one is the Ape robot?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 14 July 2016, 09:46:42
The primate ones, clearly. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 14 July 2016, 09:48:33
Gotcha. I'm dense... I kind of figured that's what you meant..😃
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 15 July 2016, 08:07:47
:) LOL I've always been bad at spelling :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 18 July 2016, 08:58:09
Having a brainstorm, but am at work without my books handy. What were VI Legio's special ability rules in FM:P? I want to see if they can be replicated by any of the special command abilities we've seen in the Combat Manuals.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 18 July 2016, 10:23:32
I haven't picked up the combat manuals yet
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 18 July 2016, 10:29:39
VI Legio units have the Force The Initiatve special ability.
Before deploying forces fro VI Legio in a scenario the controlling player must roll 2d9; on a result of 9 or more VI Legio enters the battle in a poor state of repair. Each unit must take 2d6 points of damage, allocated in 5 point clusters; any damage roll that would destroy a unit as a result of this damage must be re-rolled.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 18 July 2016, 10:37:04
I'm talking about the unit rules in FM: Periphery. Can't remember those, and I do have the Combat Manuals, so I can look at the list of command abilities in those and compare them to the FM:P text, see what might work in my group until a true CM:P comes out.

Adacas, is that the text from FM:P?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 18 July 2016, 10:40:50
There are the rules of the unit FM 3145, in 3063 the Legio VI Elements of May Movement Onboard use the special ability if They Have a walking or cruising movement of 5 or greater
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 18 July 2016, 10:44:13
Can you quote the precise 3063 text, please?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 18 July 2016, 10:48:38
the Legio VI Elements of May Movement Onboard use the special ability if They Have a walking or cruising movement of 5 or greater
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 18 July 2016, 11:46:21
Trying to use the CampOps unit conversions?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 18 July 2016, 11:57:53
Trying to use the CampOps unit conversions?

I think that's what you want to do Weirdo
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 18 July 2016, 12:43:41
Nah, just have a buddy who really likes the Combat Manuals, and the unit abilities therein. Figured if I was able to convert the Sixth's abilities, it would give us a balanced fight, or as balanced as any fight will be that pits a Legion against the Sword of Light... :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 18 July 2016, 13:15:17
Campaign Ops is supposed to covert AS abilities into TW and vice versa though I have not read that portion yet.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 18 July 2016, 13:35:50
Huh. Might have to take a closer look at it then. I don't play campaigns, so I haven't really looked at it in detail.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 18 July 2016, 14:28:01
Wasn't the VIth the merc unit that turned traitor?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sharpnel on 18 July 2016, 14:38:35
With my books in storage, I believe it was Legio V that sided with the Lothians
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 18 July 2016, 14:43:51
With my books in storage, I believe it was Legio V that sided with the Lothians

Weirdo asked by VI Legio , which originally was a mercenary unit, not by V Legio
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 18 July 2016, 14:53:12
VI Legio was a merc unit that betrayed the Illyrians and joined soon-to-be Caesar Julius. They've been loyal to the Hegemony ever since, aside from some spies discovered in the Dark Age.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 18 July 2016, 15:01:01
I have thought about bringing a Marian themed pick up force for the next local game . . . if I can get the rules right.  A pair of Centurions, 9-H and a 9-Ar, two squads of IS Std (LRR) or maybe more, a VTOL gunship, and some armor to fill in . . . just not sure how squishy the primitive components are for the fight, never used the rules before.

It should throw folks since I have played the Warden Wolves a lot and last time was a 3140s Republic force.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 18 July 2016, 15:07:49
The primitive gear doesn't actually have any special rules. It's just a lot heavier, which is why the 9-H had no room for a full weapons suite or proper armor shell.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 18 July 2016, 15:32:55
Oh, so no penalty like the different BAR armor divisors on support vehs.  I looked at the rules once or twice and as nothing out interested me I mostly forgot them.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 22 July 2016, 11:25:43
So I'm looking into finally filling out my VI Legio minis into a proper cohort, and while I'm actually a lot closer than I expected, there's still a few gaps, plus the matter of actually grouping everything into Maniples and Centuries. Here's what I have so far:

Marauder II
Cyclops
Goliath
Charger
Marauder
Grasshopper
Cataphract
Cataphract
Cataphract
Thunderbolt
JagerMech
JagerMech
Catapult
Ostroc
Quickdraw
Hunchback
Enforcer
Centurion
Centurion
Centurion
Phoenix Hawk
Whitworth
Whitworth
Whitworth
Assassin
Firestarter
Tarantula
Commando

I just need two more light mechs to fill it out to a full Cohort, and then I need to group everything into Maniples and Centuries. About the only thing I know for certain is that I want the unit CO in the MAD II, the P-Hawk to also be in the command Century, and at least one of the Cataphracts to not be in command of anything. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 22 July 2016, 11:37:39
I'd add the Cyclops and Goliath to the command Century. Makes it a nice long to mid range unit with not too many heavy hitters thrown together.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 July 2016, 15:12:39
Cyclops- Charger - Marauder II - Goliath - Quickdraw  Comand Maniple
Marauder - Cataphract - Ostroc - Cataphract - Cataphract  Heavy Maniple
Thunderbolt - Phoenix Hawk - Centurion - Centurion - Enforcer

Maniples you think these are somewhat similar to what you thought?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 22 July 2016, 16:53:32
What's in the other half of each Maniple? You've only listed a Century each.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 July 2016, 17:07:19
What's in the other half of each Maniple? You've only listed a Century each.

A pardon stay with the old name, maniple equal to 5.
fixed
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 July 2016, 17:15:12
My Marian Cohort option

1 Century: Cyclops- Charger - Marauder II - Goliath - Quickdraw ; 2 Century   Jagermech - Centurion - Withworth - Hunchback -    Comand Maniple
1ª Century Marauder - Cataphract - Ostroc - Cataphract - Cataphract  ; 2 Century  Catapult - Jagermech - Withworth . Centurion - Withworth  Heavy Maniple
1ª Century Thunderbolt - Phoenix Hawk - Centurion - Enforcer ; 2 Century Grasshopper - Assasin . Firestarter - Tarantula - Comando    Fast Atack  Maniple
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: snakespinner on 22 July 2016, 22:59:15
Your 2nd century command maniple only has 4 mechs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 23 July 2016, 06:14:01
So I'm looking into finally filling out my VI Legio minis into a proper cohort

* snip *

I just need two more light mechs to fill it out to a full Cohort, and then I need to group everything into Maniples and Centuries.of anything. Any ideas?

Crosscuts.

Specifically the -XM5-B models.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 23 July 2016, 06:46:02
Group as needed :)

Command : Marauder II, Cyclops, Goliath, Cataphract, Phoenix Hawk,

Fire Support: Marauder, JagerMech, Centurion, Centurion, Enforcer

Recon: Quickdraw Assassin Firestarter Tarantula Commando
                                 

Battle : Charger, Grasshopper, Ostroc, Cataphract, Hunchback

Fire Support: Catapult, Thunderbolt, Whitworth, Whitworth, Centurion


Cataphract, JagerMech, Whitworth   Short unit.     

You could add the Gladiator (55 tonner) and Icarus II to the mix to increase your Marian machismo.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 23 July 2016, 08:45:30
Your 2nd century command maniple only has 4 mechs.

If you like one of the maniples Fast Attack, because there are 28 mechs not the 30 that would have full cohort

As Saint says, I would add perhaps a gladiator or two, or Icarus and Emperor (The Icarus Fast Atack and the Emperor in the Comand maniple
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Greyhind on 23 July 2016, 10:55:30
I hope most of your units are *ahem* Maid'n Marian hegemony? :o
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 23 July 2016, 11:18:23
Don't forget, I was specifically asking for two more lights to finish the group. Gonna have to check out those Crosscuts. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 23 July 2016, 20:30:33
Add two Locust LCT-1V2s :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 23 July 2016, 23:22:02
Those might be fun...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 24 July 2016, 10:51:31
If you want to have mixed centuries... Instead of 2 lights you could add 2 gladius.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 24 July 2016, 11:02:22
I'm planning to keep this Cohort mech-only. For the two Auxilia Legio, I'm going to add two conventional Cohorts, where all my infantry and vees will be found.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 24 July 2016, 14:08:51
Would add some Locust 1V2s or perhaps COM 4Hs. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jackson123 on 24 July 2016, 21:53:21
Stingers or wasp would work too.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 25 July 2016, 00:58:55
A pair of Fox-bought Piranhas to deal with pesky infantry.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 25 July 2016, 01:30:35
So I'm looking into finally filling out my VI Legio minis into a proper cohort, and while I'm actually a lot closer than I expected, there's still a few gaps, plus the matter of actually grouping everything into Maniples and Centuries. Here's what I have so far:

Marauder II
Cyclops
Goliath
Charger
Marauder
Grasshopper
Cataphract
Cataphract
Cataphract
Thunderbolt
JagerMech
JagerMech
Catapult
Ostroc
Quickdraw
Hunchback
Enforcer
Centurion
Centurion
Centurion
Phoenix Hawk
Whitworth
Whitworth
Whitworth
Assassin
Firestarter
Tarantula
Commando

I just need two more light mechs to fill it out to a full Cohort, and then I need to group everything into Maniples and Centuries. About the only thing I know for certain is that I want the unit CO in the MAD II, the P-Hawk to also be in the command Century, and at least one of the Cataphracts to not be in command of anything. Any ideas?

Hmm, my own suggestion above doesn't actually help when it comes to sorting the unit into viable Maniples, but I'll go with it anyway.

Command Maniple
1st Century: Marauder II, Cyclops, Goliath, Phoenix Hawk, Firestarter
2nd Century: Catapult, Whitworth, Whitworth, Whitworth, Hunchback

Battle Maniple
1st Century: Marauder, Cataphract, Ostroc, Centurion, Centurion
2nd Century: Cataphract, Cataphract, Jagermech, Jagermech, Centurion

Maneuver Maniple
1st Century:  Charger(-1A9), Quickdraw, Grasshopper, Thunderbolt(-9M), Enforcer
2nd Century: Assassin, Tarantula, Commando, Piranha, Piranha

The Command maniple gives you a command century with three assaults to protect your CO and two scouts (including the extreme flexibility of the Firestarter, which can do everything from slaughter PBIs to set screening fires to cover retreats, as well as scout) and a second century set up for firesupport that includes an integral bodyguard.
The Battle Maniple is pretty straightforward, mostly medium-heavy mainline combatants, though the Jagermechs add AAA utility.
The Maneuver maniple has one all-jumper Century and one that can make at least 6/9 (whereas all the unit's other Centuries can only go 4/6 if they mean to stay together).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 26 July 2016, 04:46:57
Stingers or wasp would work too.

A great idea- I recently grew very fond of the Wasp 3P.  7/11/7, ER medium and a RL 10 is not bad combination.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 27 July 2016, 22:00:50
The WSP-3P is definitely one of the best of the bunch.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 30 July 2016, 12:31:59
Played a game last night for the global AS event with my IVth Legio vs Jade Falcons. IV Legio won. I posted it to the challenges and gathers thread I started and to my BTI AS page on FB.

5 centuries vs 2 stars. It was a fun game.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 31 July 2016, 07:17:02
Ruffling Falcon Feathers! Great work!  O0
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sharpnel on 31 July 2016, 07:22:32
Played a game last night for the global AS event with my IVth Legio vs Jade Falcons. IV Legio won. I posted it to the challenges and gathers thread I started and to my BTI AS page on FB.

5 centuries vs 2 stars. It was a fun game.
To quote some obscure Russian "Quantity has a quality all its own"

So, what was left of your Marian force?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 01 August 2016, 10:06:21
Century I

Archer
Zeus
Cataphract
Thunderbolt
Marauder

Century II

Locust
Clint
Hermes
Cicada
Spider

Century III

Glados x4
Saracen

Century IV

Srm jump platoon x3
Flamer jump platoon x2

Century V

Karnov ( standard ) x2
Karnov ( AC )
Ferret ( cargo )
Lrm carrier.

I lost the Cataphract and Clint to forced withdraw, and the Zeus blew up.

I destroyed nearly all the JF force.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 01 August 2016, 10:14:50
Did they go for the mechs only, or try to wreck the vehs/inf along with engaging the mechs?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 01 August 2016, 12:52:47
I think I overwealmed my opponents actually. They weren't quite sure what to do with everything I fielded. They left everything alone except the mechs, but I used good placement on my moves too.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 16 September 2016, 07:31:07
With the newest MUL update we got the Turhan on our list. 5t infantry bay- hurray!  O0

Of course in games that are restricted by era we will have troubles to justify fielding it but for more casual games it is great.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 16 September 2016, 09:06:56
Wait, what? HOW?! :o

What eras?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 16 September 2016, 09:52:41
Which one? I just checked and don't see it for us... WoB, RoTS and some times DC.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Xiwo Xerase on 16 September 2016, 12:57:17
The Turhan is in the Periphery General availability list for the Star League and Early Succession War eras.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 16 September 2016, 13:08:42
And we now have stats for the primitive Archer, not a bad ride for its tech level. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 16 September 2016, 13:16:36
The Turhan is in the Periphery General availability list for the Star League and Early Succession War eras.

Makes sense, though given that the Hegemony didn't exist back then, I don't think it helps us any...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 17 September 2016, 17:43:11
Is what I meant that we might have troubles to justify fielding it in most games....   but it is there!  :D

The primitive Archer is indeed a pretty beast  and I look forward to field it as part of a support century.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 17 September 2016, 19:19:08
Question, we can infer that we are mechs user only state them we could be building them? Because they look really weird things in the MUL... My interest in  mechs the Dark Age Era
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 17 September 2016, 23:22:25
...whu ???
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 18 September 2016, 09:44:40
I think it's more likely the Hegemony is buying up the primitive mechs from the houses. They would be dropping primitives for more advanced models.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 18 September 2016, 10:48:29
Question, we can infer that we are mechs user only state them we could be building them? Because they look really weird things in the MUL... My interest in  mechs the Dark Age Era

From what I understand, Adacas states he likes Dark Age-era mechs,  the MUL has strange items listed and, if I am reading this correctly, while the Marian Hegemony uses mechs, do we build them. ( As in they build some, but field more variates than what they build. )

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 18 September 2016, 12:45:38
https://www.4shared.com/img/ovrv1PnVba/s25/1573e4db2f0/Brigand[/img]](https://www.4shared.com/img/ovrv1PnVba/s25/1573e4db2f0/Brigand) (http://[IMG)[/url]

https://www.4shared.com/img/EFN_rpigce/s25/1573e4df940/Locust_1V2[/img]](https://www.4shared.com/img/EFN_rpigce/s25/1573e4df940/Locust_1V2) (http://[IMG)

 (http://)(https://www.4shared.com/img/o9TncQBYba/s25/1573e56abd0/MAD-2R)[/URL][/url]

https://www.4shared.com/img/Lx0OEDsPce/s25/1573e5d6290/Highlander_732b[/img]](https://www.4shared.com/img/Lx0OEDsPce/s25/1573e5d6290/Highlander_732b) (http://[IMG)[/url]

https://www.4shared.com/img/7wS49vgXce/s25/1573e625818/Marauder_II_-4H[/img]](https://www.4shared.com/img/7wS49vgXce/s25/1573e625818/Marauder_II_-4H) (http://[IMG)[/url]

Thanks Truetanker !, I meant exactly that, here add some of the mechs in question, some even would be logical as the Locust or Brigand or MAD II 4H we have history in the latter, but the other two are rare me and me filled with questions and that let me make several others outside this presentation.

Sorry for the size I could not do it in another
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 18 September 2016, 13:47:35
Brigand was built by Lady Death's people with IIRC assistance from the Word . . . I would not expect it to be built any longer unless another set of pirates took over the site.

Son Hoa (nearby-ish) produces the Highlander 732, so it is reasonable to assume that is either the source and they are upgrading to the Royals just like they refit/refurbish other designs OR the Star Corps plant got upgraded to produce Royal versions at some point post ObjRaids LC.  As I do not have ORLC I cannot say which version they were building after the Jihad.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 18 September 2016, 16:43:46
Brigand was built by Lady Death's people with IIRC assistance from the Word . . . I would not expect it to be built any longer unless another set of pirates took over the site.

Son Hoa (nearby-ish) produces the Highlander 732, so it is reasonable to assume that is either the source and they are upgrading to the Royals just like they refit/refurbish other designs OR the Star Corps plant got upgraded to produce Royal versions at some point post ObjRaids LC.  As I do not have ORLC I cannot say which version they were building after the Jihad.

Well we split, according to various sources, the lines of mechs Son Hoa were translate to Loxley sometime after the Jihad moment, so apparently the proximity of Son Hoa is not the origin of this mech, apparently the version HGN  -732b is the only survivor in Dark Age this venerable  mech

As for the Brigand, that version is the only option contained with usable by Marian Hegemony or Mercenaries, the rest only and exclusively pirates or extinct in Dark Age Era

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 19 September 2016, 01:34:29
I'm guessing the Marauder II refit line could be upgraded to a full production line and the Marians got a Marauder license from GM since it would be easy to build it alongside the Marauder II.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 19 September 2016, 08:10:25
I'm guessing the Marauder II refit line could be upgraded to a full production line and the Marians got a Marauder license from GM since it would be easy to build it alongside the Marauder II.

It could be that, although perhaps the License was purchased by Taurian Concordat
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 19 September 2016, 11:21:24
Unless a product explicitly lists a mech model as actually being produced, I'm assuming that all non-primitive mechs are the product of refit facilities, trade, or salvage.

The fun of the Marian Hegemony is the knowledge that we don't build jack, but we can still kick ass. 8)

Okay, that and plugging silly phrases into Latin. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 19 September 2016, 11:29:15
Ita est!  O0


Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 19 September 2016, 11:35:35
And this is why the unit motto for my IV Legio Infantry Cohort is "Pluit Hominum". :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 19 September 2016, 13:56:13
I prefer "Vidi Londinium, vidi Gaul, vidi tu subligaria.

 Agreed. I like the fact that we produce little and a lot of our stuff is from trade or raid.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 19 September 2016, 14:01:23
Wonder how many trade agreements the Hegemony has with the Rim Collection . . . they produce a Primitive Commando, mech grade weapons and regular Wasp/Stinger/Locust.  Let them make lights, trade lights for the primitive Centurion . . . decent way to bulk out.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 19 September 2016, 14:09:30
Wonder how many trade agreements the Hegemony has with the Rim Collection . . . they produce a Primitive Commando, mech grade weapons and regular Wasp/Stinger/Locust.  Let them make lights, trade lights for the primitive Centurion . . . decent way to bulk out.

I think it may also be many business dealings with Lyran Alliance, there are some combinations of mechs that these possibilities make feasible

http://www.4shared.com/img/98-R0c9-ba/s25/15743e51c58/Exportaciones_Liranas[/img]](http://www.4shared.com/img/98-R0c9-ba/s25/15743e51c58/Exportaciones_Liranas) (http://[IMG)[/url]
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 19 September 2016, 14:32:17
Rim Collection is not Lyran Commonwealth, its a confederation of worlds at the Lyran periphery.  Some of the worlds were possibly RWR worlds originally or settled from those fleeing the end of the RWR.

Able Hunting Arms, Ltd who makes MGs & ACs for Rim Motors (makes of the lights I mentioned) were selling ACs to the LCAF in the Dark Ages.  Perhaps they were also selling ACs of various types to StarCorps on Son Hoa too- Emperor's LB-20X and maybe the King Crab & Highlander's Gauss Rifle (depends on defs).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 19 September 2016, 14:44:40
Rim Collection is not Lyran Commonwealth, its a confederation of worlds at the Lyran periphery.  Some of the worlds were possibly RWR worlds originally or settled from those fleeing the end of the RWR.

Able Hunting Arms, Ltd who makes MGs & ACs for Rim Motors (makes of the lights I mentioned) were selling ACs to the LCAF in the Dark Ages.  Perhaps they were also selling ACs of various types to StarCorps on Son Hoa too- Emperor's LB-20X and maybe the King Crab & Highlander's Gauss Rifle (depends on defs).

Humm can be, but I mean trade between the Marian Hegemony and Lyran Commonwealth with those mechs that compraten use by both states in the Dark Age.

There may be trade between the Rim Collection and Marian Hegemony I do not doubt it, although I have my doubts that we buy them more than they buy from us.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 19 September 2016, 15:03:31
A Centurion, even the Primitive one, would be worth more than the bugs Rim Motors would produce- value might be the same but the volume could be tilted to the Rim.  Especially when they maybe producing the LB-10X ACs that are going in those Primitive Centurions since it was a import problem on the original Gladius with no indication its been resolved.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 19 September 2016, 15:07:27
A Centurion, even the Primitive one, would be worth more than the bugs Rim Motors would produce- value might be the same but the volume could be tilted to the Rim.  Especially when they maybe producing the LB-10X ACs that are going in those Primitive Centurions since it was a import problem on the original Gladius with no indication its been resolved.

The Ultra / 10 of Testudo may well solve the issue of CA / 10 Centurion or Gladius , as we are talking about old information for 75 years or so
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 19 September 2016, 15:27:06
I remember the UAC/10 discussion . . . and while the Marians like ACs, we have not found anything saying they produce one- be it vanilla, LBX or Ultra.  They use them- absolutely, but not a word about building them.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 19 September 2016, 15:31:55
The cannon is specifically listed as an Imperator product. It seems safe to assume it is imported.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 19 September 2016, 15:46:43
The cannon is specifically listed as an Imperator product. It seems safe to assume it is imported.

or Licensed. import as many as to equip Testudos, I would uneconomic
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 19 September 2016, 16:28:26
Hardly. A single outlay of cash and a medium-sized DropShip full of Ultras would result give you enough stocks to build a LOT of Testudos. Another major purchase every few years is all you'd need to keep them in stock.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 19 September 2016, 16:41:06
Hardly. A single outlay of cash and a medium-sized DropShip full of Ultras would result give you enough stocks to build a LOT of Testudos. Another major purchase every few years is all you'd need to keep them in stock.

That depends on how Testudos to build year, keep in mind that is manufactured both for use MHAF and for export, besides those UCA / 10 can be also for Centurion and other mechs or tanks, the same could be applied to other weapons
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 19 September 2016, 19:37:29
And this is why the unit motto for my IV Legio Infantry Cohort is "Pluit Hominum". :)
I prefer "Vidi Londinium, vidi Gaul, vidi tu subligaria.
Illegitimi non carborundum.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 19 September 2016, 20:26:05
Illegitimi non carborundum.

 It's still funny 😂
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 25 October 2016, 13:25:02
I was just looking on the MUL. I noticed we got the chimera 1S in Early Republic. Anyone know how we would have gotten it? Like, is there lore for us having them reasons, not " *shrug* we bought them I guess" reasons.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 25 October 2016, 14:16:54
Probably bought them, but Chimeras were being built on Epsilon Eridani during the Chaos March years so they were general market for a while.  Just figure it took that long for it to work its way through the secondary market.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 October 2016, 15:03:15
Probably bought them, but Chimeras were being built on Epsilon Eridani during the Chaos March years so they were general market for a while.  Just figure it took that long for it to work its way through the secondary market.

The Chimera-1S, and others models like Thanatos, Lineholder and others of that time listed by the time of the Early Republic, perhaps as said Colt Ward those models have come through the market used Davion or Steiner, or maybe one way that some unscrupulous may have intended for illegal sale which officially Successor States could not have
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 26 October 2016, 16:26:36
The cannon is specifically listed as an Imperator product. It seems safe to assume it is imported.
So they're built by Kesi Aldrich?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jimdigris on 27 October 2016, 15:49:17
It should be remembered that most of the Inner Sphere powers agreed to keep their mech forces below a certain number.  If you develop a design that is much better than some of the ones you have, you're going to discard the machines that you are not in love with to stay within the agreed limits.  If you sell them to needier powers, you can use that money to buy the shiny new designs.  The Hegemony probably went to some of those used-mech sales.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jackson123 on 30 October 2016, 11:44:51
Cheaper to buy then built your own mech production sites.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 30 October 2016, 12:51:07
Cheaper to buy then built your own mech production sites.

And now have, at some point we know that build
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Nastyogre on 08 November 2016, 08:01:26
Is there a RAT for the Marians or do you use the generic Periphery table?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 08 November 2016, 08:09:46
They have their own in FM Periphery, but in most other sourcebooks they use the generic table.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Nastyogre on 08 November 2016, 09:36:05
They have their own in FM Periphery, but in most other sourcebooks they use the generic table.

Thanks. I've got so many books I wasn't sure where to look. I wasn't looking far enough back. I thought with the increased interest in the Periphery realms there would be something in the more recent books. Not a critique, I just didn't think to look back at the old FM. Thank you.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 08 November 2016, 10:38:59
The last official Marian RAT was in Field Manual: 3085 pg 205

I'm hoping for some kind of a update soon.:)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 25 November 2016, 05:32:48
Made a RAT of my own some time ago, using the MUL (Marian Hegemony, Dark Ages http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=35&EraId=16 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=35&EraId=16) ). Of course its not canon and please feel free to use or modify it in ways fitting your game.

             Light 'Mechs:                            Medium 'Mechs                      Heavy 'Mechs                            Assault 'Mechs

2       Storm Raider STM-R1                   Marshal MHL-X1                      Ostroc OSR-2Cb                    Highlander HGN-732b     
3       Storm Raider STM-R3                Bloodhound B1-HND                   Archer ARC-6W                       Longbow LGB-12C
4            Brigand LDT-1                        Icarus II ICR-2S                    Warhammer WHM-8D                   Goliath GOL-2H
5         Firestarter FS9-M2                       Vulcan VT-5Sr                         Ostsol OTL-5D                        Marauder II MAD-4H
6            Locust LCT-1V2                        Dervish DV-6Mr                      Marauder MAD-2R                      Goliath GOL-6H
7       Commando COM-2Dr                     Centurion CN9-Ar                 Quickdraw QKD-5Mr                     Atlas AS7-K2
8             Wasp WSP-3P                          Cronus CNS-3M                   Thunderbolt TDR-7SE                   Goliath GOL-2H
9         Firestarter FS9-M3                     Hermes II HER-5Sr                    Archer ARC-8M                      Marauder II MAD-4H
10            Eagle EGL-2M                         Chimera CMA-1S                    Thanatos TNS-4S                        Atlas AS7-K2
11           Stinger STG-3P                       Gladiator GLD-5R                 Bandersnatch BNDR-01Ar              Goliath GOL-6H
12           Cadaver CVR-A1                        Ghost GST-11                      Warhammer WHM-6Rb           Highlander HGN-732b


Is just 'Mechs for now and I tried to use those 'Mechs I know the Marians had in numbers or made themselves for the most common spots.  Also I made sure that there are probes, ECM and TAGs included and that there are examples for most weapons systems available- from the humble AC 10 to high tech plasma rifles and MMLs. I avoided units using advanced or experimental  equipment though to keep things simple in pickup games.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 26 November 2016, 00:11:06
Hmm . . . I would suggest putting the CN9-H in the mediums, its one they produce.  You might also look at the heavies produced on Kendall that they were raiding.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 November 2016, 09:03:52
Hmm . . . I would suggest putting the CN9-H in the mediums, its one they produce.  You might also look at the heavies produced on Kendall that they were raiding.

If the Centurion -H, should occupy less a socket in the RAT, if we add the Heavy Mechs of Kendall maybe we should also add the Quasimodo in the means

Also the RAT is very well likewise
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 26 November 2016, 11:19:02
At that time period we do not have the 9-H anymore.

This is why I used the 9-Ar instead as I can see them being used for the very same role.

Quasimodo, Mechs from Kendall- I fear canon (and the MUL) does not support the claim that we have them among our forces. If you feel like adding them it should be no problem to do so but I tried to stay as close to canon as I could with this RAT.

Should the MUL being updated again I will change the RAT accordingly, though.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 26 November 2016, 11:51:09
For the prim Cent 9-H, even if they stopped producing it before the DA period they would still have quite a few in their inventories.  But yeah, I checked the Periphery General from FM3145 and its not even on there even if it was supposed to be sold outside the Hegemony.  Back in the Centurion topic we discussed if they upgraded the 9-H to the 9-Ar as their base developed, but someone pointed out they would work well together with the 9-Ar's HPPC blowing holes and the 9-H to poke at the holes with the LBX pellets.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 16 January 2017, 19:18:03
Ave! Seeking opinions/recommendations here, citizens.

I'm just starting to build two Jihad-era Maniples for the equivalent of a battalion force, in minis. I was going with III Legio, but my proof of concept paintjob came out excessively average, and I don't think I can salvage it. So I'm now looking at IV Legio, Prima Cohors. Just as a check, their paintscheme seems to be reddish brown with orange details, correct?

For III Legio I had been planning three centuries of 'Mechs, two of vehicles, and a century of BA in hover transports. But IV Legio uses "twice as many vehicles as 'Mechs". Okay, so now I'm going with

* 1st Maniple - century of heavy & medium 'Mechs, century of light 'Mechs, century of Laser Carriers (for the funky feel)
* 2nd Maniple - century of XXX, century of Ranger VVIs, century of Ravagers in hover APCs

(Which technically gives me 10 'Mechs and 20 vehicles, counting the APCs ;) )

Question - for III Legio, or for a Marian force in general, what would you recommend (given the Jihad period) for the missing century of vehicles?

Thanks in advance,

W.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 16 January 2017, 19:20:09
Gladius.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 16 January 2017, 19:31:18
Definite possibility, although the mini is somewhat uninspiring.

Heck, if the Testudo was available through IWM I'd be buying 5 of them in a flash.

Other opinions?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 17 January 2017, 14:36:38
VTOLs? Or would you run with a century of Demo A4 / Demo Gauss? Mayde old school Ontos LRMs with Demo A4, having a stand by Demo for an anchor?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 17 January 2017, 14:55:59
Go for a pair of Karnovs(bonus if you bash them into the psychotic RL model), a pair of Fulcrums, and something else that can keep up with them. The ground stuff harasses, the Karnovs smash whatever takes the bait, and fun times are had by all. And by all, I mean you. Meanwhile, everything that got distracted by that group isn't around to stop your mechs and infantry.

Either that, or use this Century to hunt down any enemy artillery. Because nothing is more fun than cramming an entire Century of infantry into a two-hex area and setting what happens to enemies that get too close to that particular tiger pit, but nothing ruins that fun faster than AE.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 17 January 2017, 16:46:00
Karnovs. I like the idea - and don't forget the Artillery version. A pair of RL versions, an Artillery version, and a pair of supporting VTOLs (or two artillery, one support) sounds plausible. Albeit having to buy stuff in; if only Karnovs came two per pack.

The other thought I had was to be a little evil, and use Padilla artillery vehicles - the DA mini version. They're in period, they're WOB at that stage, but we know WoB was feeding equipment into the Hegemony at the time. It's a push, but not a huge one. Three Padillas and two escorts make for a nice support Century.

Can anyone confirm me on the colourscheme?

W.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 17 January 2017, 17:39:58
I can confirm IV Legio's colors. Very easy to paint, too. Base the whole thing in a rust-colored primer, add orange where desired and various mechanical bits, then hit the whole thing in a reddish-brown wash(I use GW's sepia thingy). The colors come out just right, and the mechanicals get a lightly rusted look, only needing a bit of weathering and the cockpit at that point. O0

Here's how mine tend to turn out:
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baron RedSkull on 18 January 2017, 12:45:06
According to CSO, the IV's colors are maroon trimmed in orange per FM: Periphery pg. 80.

I'll attach a pic of my IV Legio unit when I get home.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 18 January 2017, 13:38:53
Thanks all!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: pheonixstorm on 18 January 2017, 17:25:06
can't wait to see what you cook up worktroll O0
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Col.Hengist on 20 January 2017, 15:07:37
While the gladius may not look that great, it's a good hover. I have 2 centuries of them.

 If you want a nice Karnov the AC version is nice as is the BA version.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jimdigris on 31 January 2017, 20:34:47
I painted up the 4th and 6th Legio as an OPFOR for my Magistracy forces.  For the 4th Legio, instead of using maroon, I used a deeper red that I had seen on Roman shields and tried to match the iconography. You'll find some primitive Centurions mixed in there.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56204.0
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56203.0
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 31 January 2017, 20:38:24
Now I get the lightning bolts! :)

W.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 14 February 2017, 21:01:50
I just watched to really good movies:

The Eagle and Pompeii.

And now I want to try to make my first Cohort! Circa 3025, I'll make these into late models when the time comes.

So I need some ideas...

I want a Maniple of Mech, Tank and a Century of Infantry. Leaving me short a Century, any ideas?

I'll post when I am done in the Non-Canon thread.

Legatus Marcus Octavius Pompeii, or Pompeii's Cohort.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 15 February 2017, 08:24:47
I suggest either VTOLs or artillery. 

edit: The MUL gives the Ballista self propelled artillery to the Hegemony in 3025. Would go for a century of those.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 15 February 2017, 14:29:49
I'm thinking of running TAVs aka 3025 Marksman.  I usually run a brace of three of them for most pre-Invasion forces, unless they are a canon faction. But as for the other two... close support tanks?

I am running old Reunifaction era tanks so lots of Tigers and Ex-SLDF-era tanks.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 15 February 2017, 14:54:15
SRM Carriers. Make them choose between dying to artillery, or dying to missiles. >:D
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 15 February 2017, 18:51:17
J.E Hoover, SRM Carrier, Scimitar?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 20 February 2017, 21:07:42
Pompeii's Cohort is now available to be discussed in the Non-Canon thread...

There is need of help in fleshing them out.

I may later add some Aero units to help round it out, most likely an Air Lance in keeping with standard 3025-era companies. Marian just uses less than ideal, but the inclusion would help it.

I haven't decided on what Transport I'd run... most likely a Union, but I'd prefer older transport to show how dilapidated this unit is, plus a win-win for Marian flavor and cool fluff effect! Confederates and a Leopard? Then what to use for the rest? DrosT...  Black Eagle... :-\

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 25 March 2017, 14:56:50
Since we don’t know when or if there will be an Objectives book for the Dark Age let’s have some fun speculating!
What do you think the Marians will produce and what they should produce (no fully stated designs please).

Lights

Locust 5V and Commando 4H: No change here, both are solid lights.

Needs: A jump capable mech for recon and raiding, perhaps a new design say a 30 ton 7/11/7 mover.

Mediums

Icarus 1X Likely moves production to the 1S or 2S models

Centurion 9-H  Likely moves production to the 9-A or 9-Ar models.

Gladiator 1R  Likely moves production to the 5R model.

Needs: I’d like to see the weapons package of the Icarus 1X on a updated version maybe a 6/9/6 mover. I’d also like to see them make updated Gladiator 3R and 4R.

Heavy

Just something home produced would be awesome, hopefully a new solid trooper design.

Assault

Emperor 1A    Likely moves production to the 6A model.

Needs: Something that will be a Marian icon, I’d love the Rampage but that’s just a dream. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 25 March 2017, 15:55:30
Hanging onto Kendall and adding Orions, Hercules, and Quasimodos to the Legiones would be pretty sweet.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 25 March 2017, 17:17:08
According to the MUL, the Marians begin fielding the SDR-8M Spider as of the Early Republic era. That's not a bad light jumper.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 25 March 2017, 21:04:54
According to the MUL, the Marians begin fielding the SDR-8M Spider as of the Early Republic era. That's not a bad light jumper.
Yeah but that's likely imported or salvage, I'm think more home grown.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 27 March 2017, 22:59:37
Well, depending on period, you do have the Hegemony producing the Primitive Centurion.

I'm torn between seeing some sort of homegrown (or claimable) heavy, and taking an otherwise neglected design, adding some laminar-looking armour, and calling it the "Decurion". The Icarus II would be useful for this; alternatively, a non-XL version of the Razorback, which seems to drop off the radar post-Jihad.

Then there's the bit of me that would love to see the Hegemony producing an indigenous assault 'Mech hastily relabelled named the Rising Star ...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 28 March 2017, 08:28:16
Razorback, Battle Hawk, the Lyrans make a lot of good light mechs that they then neglect to use.  Surely they'd be willing to sell the plans....
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 28 March 2017, 08:36:03
Razorback, Battle Hawk, the Lyrans make a lot of good light mechs that they then neglect to use.  Surely they'd be willing to sell the plans....

They're Lyrans, there's more money to be made of selling the 'Mechs (and ensuing spare parts)!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Karimancer on 28 March 2017, 16:30:28
They're Lyrans, there's more money to be made of selling the 'Mechs (and ensuing spare parts)!
They may, however, find it more cost effective to license the designs to the Marians. That way they can keep their own production lines open for designs that are more profitable.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 28 March 2017, 18:25:06
Marians are a pround and honourable people. They waste no time arguing copyright law, or intellectual property rights. We hold what we take! O0
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Karimancer on 29 March 2017, 04:12:18
Must be why you're so popular and have so many allies.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 29 March 2017, 08:13:29
Nah, I'd put that down to our history of piracy.  Avast ye, amicae!  Shiver me arbores!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Karimancer on 29 March 2017, 09:04:57
Pfft. Marians, always putting on airs. If you're gonna be pirates, just be pirates. It's a proud and, well not noble, but still a proud profession. *Goes back to counting her swag.*
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 29 March 2017, 10:30:22
Naah we've moved past our pirating days. Now we are playing with the big boys we attack for territorial gain, the spoils of war are just a bonus. ;)

Anything else is just an objective raid. Mostly
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 29 March 2017, 10:36:06
Pfft. Marians, always putting on airs. If you're gonna be pirates, just be pirates. It's a proud and, well not noble, but still a proud profession. *Goes back to counting her swag.*
Ah, but we get to sound pretentious and overeducated while we go about our piracy! O0

Also we get to use various derivatives of the word Legion a lot, which is cool.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 29 March 2017, 10:54:50
And me hat's a tricorne with an aquila on top!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Karimancer on 30 March 2017, 12:45:39
Naah we've moved past our pirating days. Now we are playing with the big boys we attack for territorial gain, the spoils of war are just a bonus. ;)

Anything else is just an objective raid. Mostly
Sounds like piracy with a bunch of tacked-on doublespeak to me.

Ah, but we get to sound pretentious and overeducated while we go about our piracy! O0

Also we get to use various derivatives of the word Legion a lot, which is cool.
Pretentious, yes. But I think the only folks in the Periphery that can claim to be educated, let alone over educated, are the Taurians. More than half of them can actually read!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 30 March 2017, 13:08:11
Sounds like piracy with a bunch of tacked-on doublespeak to me.
Which pretty much puts us on the same level as the day-to-day operations of the Houses and Clans. I think the doublespeak is what passes for the difference between banditry and legitimacy these past few centuries. O0
Quote
Pretentious, yes. But I think the only folks in the Periphery that can claim to be educated, let alone over educated, are the Taurians. More than half of them can actually read!
Well, I never said we actually were overeducated, just that we could sound like it. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Karimancer on 30 March 2017, 13:12:14
Indeed. To both.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 31 March 2017, 19:09:44
Well taking what is said by Saint, I basically agree with all the designs well the MH manufacture those modern designs after constructing the primitive designs in cases of disaster and own designs like LCT-1V2 and COM-4H.

As for Mech heavy apart from our beloved Cataphract, and if it is autochthonous I would like to see (if it is a dream), a design similar to my Optione that appears in Shadow War Suplement (Fanmade Suplemental), is beautiful 60 tn, jumps And energy weapons

As for Aero, hopefully we are building something else besides the Shilone


Because we have a few factories where we could manufacture them, maybe not in large numbers but if for self-sufficiency and some export to mercs
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 03 April 2017, 16:08:13
Is it me or did we add some mechs in Dark Age Era?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 03 April 2017, 20:06:31
The Marians do seem to get a odd mix. I kind of like the Storm Raider for them , seems like a good fit.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 03 April 2017, 20:49:06
But it needs a workover, so it has a sword (gladius) instead of the mace, and a Romanesque helmet.

Seriously, are the Marians making COM-4Hs, or are they scouring the "pick-a-part" and "Billy-Joe's budget 'Mech-yard"s of the sphere in search of old chassis, which are then shipped back for sanding down & refurbishment? Imagining DropShips loaded with rusted 'Mech parts ...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 April 2017, 23:40:36
I thought they were doing that for a lot of equipment in the 3100s.

Honestly with the Regulans now back in the fold I do not see the Marians keeping Kendall, I know TRO3150 was sort of vague on all of that but . . .
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 04 April 2017, 08:28:15
They are producing the Commado, Locust, Gladiator, Icarus, Centurion,  and Emperor. What models are the question.

It would be cool to get a Marian variant for the Storm Raider.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 04 April 2017, 08:50:33
But it needs a workover, so it has a sword (gladius) instead of the mace, and a Romanesque helmet.

Seriously, are the Marians making COM-4Hs, or are they scouring the "pick-a-part" and "Billy-Joe's budget 'Mech-yard"s of the sphere in search of old chassis, which are then shipped back for sanding down & refurbishment? Imagining DropShips loaded with rusted 'Mech parts ...

I believe it's the latter.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 04 April 2017, 12:45:02
But it needs a workover, so it has a sword (gladius) instead of the mace, and a Romanesque helmet.

Seriously, are the Marians making COM-4Hs, or are they scouring the "pick-a-part" and "Billy-Joe's budget 'Mech-yard"s of the sphere in search of old chassis, which are then shipped back for sanding down & refurbishment? Imagining DropShips loaded with rusted 'Mech parts ...

As we read in the last objective raids and last publications that spoke of the subject, the Marian Hegemony specifically Marian Arms from 3075 locally manufactures Locust and Command.
In 3075 He manufactured Centurion, Gladiator, Icarus, Archer and Emperor in their primitive versions, in 3145 with more factories and experience of constructing they must be building more modern versions of those mechs.

Also in 3075 already joined other mechs like the MAD II-4H buying or stealing parts and chassis, is the same situation and making modifications of RL versions of other mechs like Whitworth or Jagermech

Marian Factorys

Marian Arms Inc  - Alphard (3075)
Alphard Trading Corporation - Alphard (3075) - Addhara (3099)
Hadrian Inc - Pompey (3075)

Minimally they manufacture pieces of mech since marik troops tried to raid of looting in 3110, in the fluff of Objectives Raids or other publication saying that the Factory of Hadrian fabricated or manufactured mech, perhaps they have bought designs or they associated with some company perhaps Taurians or Lyrans in view of the large number of mech lirans in the TOE
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kojak on 04 April 2017, 16:26:21
You know what'd be fun? The Marians capturing Son Hoa and rebuilding the factories there. How cool would it be if the Marians were suddenly rocking Wights, Warhammers, Emperors, Highlanders and King Crabs?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 April 2017, 20:14:43
You know what'd be fun? The Marians capturing Son Hoa and rebuilding the factories there. How cool would it be if the Marians were suddenly rocking Wights, Warhammers, Emperors, Highlanders and King Crabs?

Humm before Son Hoa, would have to see if you can take Balthazar III and rebuild the factory there or in Erdyvyn
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: DavyJones on 16 April 2017, 14:29:50
  my question is with taking more factories would we  be able to produce enough mechwarriors and techs to support the increased production . We only really have the Collegium Bellorum Imperium producing the bulk of our troops . which overall is a bit problematic  to me because it creates a situation where a single strike could cripple our ability to replenish losses .More manufacturing with an increase in technology is great but if we cant integrate that into the army its not as useful to me as it stretches out our already limited supply of troops .
  After Kendall I`m for being defensive for a while till we can more fully utilize what we have . We need at least 1 maybe 2 more military academies in my opinion to have a real impact if we want to increase manufacturing that much . We also need to balance newly acquired capabilities with existing capabilities to avoid causing economic harm to existing factories which could lead to civil unrest and other unintended consequences .
 Son Hoa to me is more of a diplomatic offensive then a military one as I value there colleges more then there manufacturing . I would prefer to run as many of our student thru there STEM programs as I can to increase our ability to improve our existing factories ,hospitals and educational institutes .
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 16 April 2017, 21:12:59
If you've got excess production, hire some down-and-out merge with more pilots than machines.  Keep the best of the production for the Legiones, offer discounts on the excess as part of their contracts.  Also, you don't necessarily need a military academy to train mechwarriors.   Look at what Davion did with the Training Battalions.  I'm sure we could some find some IndustrialMech jockeys somewhere who'd love the chance at becoming mechwarriors via OJT.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 16 April 2017, 21:18:24
I would first like to confirm how many factories we have among the 3 companies or more that work in the Marian Hegemony, I also agree with you that it would be the logical step to open a pair of regional Academies with a good academic level for the formation and expansion of our military forces. The different levels (Mech, Aero, Battlearmour, Infantery and others)
Personally it would open 2 or 3 academies dedicated to Battlearmor and conventional in Horatius, another one in Pompey more oriented to Aero and Dropships and Jumpships creations and another in Addhara oriented to Mech and Tanks.

Also it could be continued advancing with the Cultural Assimilation that seemed to come well and see if it has provided some fruit with the worlds that already knew that they had treated
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 16 April 2017, 21:21:51
If you've got excess production, hire some down-and-out merge with more pilots than machines.  Keep the best of the production for the Legiones, offer discounts on the excess as part of their contracts.  Also, you don't necessarily need a military academy to train mechwarriors.   Look at what Davion did with the Training Battalions.  I'm sure we could some find some IndustrialMech jockeys somewhere who'd love the chance at becoming mechwarriors via OJT.


I believe that the Training Battalions of Davion, the most similar that has the Marians are the Fields of Mars in each system for plebeians
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: DavyJones on 17 April 2017, 16:00:55
 Training battalions work but you still need trained techs to keep the machinery in running order . Increase unit numbers and complexity at the same time can be a disaster without a lot of prep work in advance .




Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 17 April 2017, 16:17:10
Training battalions work but you still need trained techs to keep the machinery in running order . Increase unit numbers and complexity at the same time can be a disaster without a lot of prep work in advance .

That is true, but apart from the Fields of Mars and the Tech of Bellorum College, I understand that Techwizards Inc (a mech recovery company, and what you can imagine), they also train techs so in Tech I tell you to flower like flowers in the field but has more than providing the troops of the Collegium Bellorum, if it is possible for the Mechawarriors to train in the schools that train Mechwarriors train technicians of Mech, as in the other cases of Aero , Tanks or Battlearmor also train techs.
In places suggesting academies are where there are factories of what I say to train, another thing to keep in mind is that the 3 or 4 companies dedicated to the defense should incorporate their own technicians, engineers and scientists
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 17 April 2017, 16:56:19
Training battalions work but you still need trained techs to keep the machinery in running order . Increase unit numbers and complexity at the same time can be a disaster without a lot of prep work in advance .
???  Military academies train officers, not techs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 18 April 2017, 06:29:05
The Canopians seem to be doing marvelously with a similar apparatus ::)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 18 April 2017, 07:29:52
(https://www.4shared.com/img/OKrRfvLnei/s25/15b8105be68/Mapa_Hegemonia_y_zonas_circund)[/URL]

Well I uploaded the map with the surrounding areas, where there are factories of the Marian Hegemony and some extra notes of interest, so we are not lost where are confirmed factories and that according to fluff production, hence we can more theorize, where it would be better to put New Training Schools of any kind and where one would put other factories in the MH
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Cassanova on 10 May 2017, 18:50:32
So I found this little thing while browsing /btg/ the other day. No idea if it's official as I can't find it on Sarna what so ever but the art is convincing. The guys I play with have already cleared it for use so I'm planning to have one per 100 man infantry unit I take as a sort of command squad. What do you guys think about this or have you even seen it before?

Veles PA(L):

http://imgur.com/oU4YFwi
http://imgur.com/Vx6hTJz
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 10 May 2017, 19:21:26
Looks cool, and is a nice unit. I've not seen it before, it could be something from a past TRO that didn't make the cut or something for a upcoming product (unlikely Catalyst is good about leaks).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 11 May 2017, 08:10:12
Battlearmour is pretty like PAL, but it's a TRO Fanmade
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 12 August 2017, 07:41:32
Any mention of the Hegemony in TRO: Succession Wars's 3250 intro?

The stagnation in BT has me homebrewing an alternate future where a depleted Hegemony makes use of Clan troops as foederati
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 12 August 2017, 09:04:10
Nothing I saw, but I haven't read all the fluff yet.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 August 2017, 13:13:51
From what I understand, except for the fluff of 3 mechs the rest is already published fluff
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 12 August 2017, 21:06:31
The fluff from different timelines must be jarring.

It is to be hoped they use this revenue to expedite pushing ilClan out to us soon
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 August 2017, 00:47:47
The Marauder BA mini looks interesting . . .
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 17 August 2017, 00:14:33
Oh my god that's adorable.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 17 August 2017, 00:40:13
Did you see the link for the crowdfunding of a plushie version?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 17 August 2017, 02:04:40
Did you see the link for the crowdfunding of a plushie version?

No. No, I did not. Please post it.  [drool]
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 30 August 2017, 21:09:21
I made some new vehicles for a rpg campaign that Adacas is GMing. He did an ASF too, and i woul be very interested in seeing your opinion guys: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=58576.msg1347944#new (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=58576.msg1347944#new)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 01 September 2017, 00:20:30
The Pucara is an interesting little bird, though from the name I thought it would be something similar to the Boeing Jump Bomber. The fuel load means it's mostly seeing use with auxilia more often?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 01 September 2017, 09:26:38
When I designed it, I had the idea that mostly be used by the Legio Provincials and privatter market or merc, giving a strong punch anti mech or anti dropships.
Also due to the considerable deficit of aerofighters in the periphery, it is not uncommon that they finish in the Alae of the MHAF

It would be good to follow any debate in the post of Baldur so there are no problems to talk about the topic
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 01 September 2017, 22:26:02
Sure. I like the Pucara name. Probably has to do with the real-life Pucara that also looks cool :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 21 September 2017, 17:40:15
I hope you'll excuse a potentially dumb question, but there seems to be a lot of history to comb through to get up to speed here... is this basically general discussion about all things Marian Hegemony?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 21 September 2017, 17:50:08
More like a drinking hole for those with an interest in the Hegemony, one way or another.

Me, I'm a Leaguer/Jade Falcon, but did a Marian battalion in minis, and dropped in to learn some stuff. They still take my money ;)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 21 September 2017, 18:05:38
Cool. I'm relatively new to the tabletop game and have had trouble settling on factions, but Marian Hegemony is one of the ones I felt I had to focus on getting painted first. Otherwise, I'd be betraying my inner Classicist.

Speaking of, anyone have paint schemes they'd like to share?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 21 September 2017, 19:02:18
My favorite is IV Legio. Cover the whole thing in rust red primer, add some orange trim where desired, and also do gun barrels, joints, and other mechanical bits. Hit the whole thing with a sepia wash, and when dry add final touches like cockpit glass and weapons jeweling. Bingo, bango, ave Caesar, finished mech of the Legions!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 21 September 2017, 19:14:03
That's what I did for my battalion O0

The blues in I and VI Legio look interesting, but not got around to them yet.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 21 September 2017, 19:17:48
III Legio is also nice:

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/cso-images/schemes/31_maddoc_marian_iiilegiolimitanei_commando.jpg)

And the Cohorte Mortuoris is a good way to practice good blacks.

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/cso-images/schemes/1_marianmarauderiiross.jpg)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 23 September 2017, 03:59:09
Having minis in the colours of the Third Legion and Cohors Moritutii, too.

While I am also a part time Falcon, Society member and Wobbie the Hegemony is the faction I like most.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 23 September 2017, 20:32:25
I like making up my own schemes, this is one I use for my Marian mercs : The Last Legion
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4363/36151475963_5b53f75448_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 23 September 2017, 20:45:09
Those look great! Thanks for sharing. I have some I Legio decals so I'll be doing that. I also like IV.

On a side note I just learned the common application for the Latin plural missilia is "presents thrown among the people by the emperors” and I'm going to think about that every time I field missile launchers.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 24 September 2017, 19:43:12
I have a trio of heavy missile tanks that might need personalized names based off of this.. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 25 September 2017, 00:07:47
Yeah. I might try to fit "Donum Imperatoris" on my Catapult somewhere. Which tanks do you use?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 25 September 2017, 06:51:54
The tanks in question would be the fire support Century in my VI Legio armored forces - A Behemoth, two Heavy LRM Carriers, and two Pikes.

I like to field them in conjunction with heavy infantry(Ravagers heavy) as a screen/spotting force. Not very subtle, but unless you brought artillery or aero, good luck cracking it. (Oddly enough, also surprisingly effective in a city.)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 25 September 2017, 09:59:46
Yeah. I might try to fit "Donum Imperatoris" on my Catapult somewhere. Which tanks do you use?

 Consider it stolen for the  Marian AToW campaign i am currently playing.  O:-)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 25 September 2017, 10:33:43
Consider it stolen for the  Marian AToW campaign i am currently playing.  O:-)

That sounds like a blast!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 25 September 2017, 10:40:02
The tanks in question would be the fire support Century in my VI Legio armored forces - A Behemoth, two Heavy LRM Carriers, and two Pikes.

I like to field them in conjunction with heavy infantry(Ravagers heavy) as a screen/spotting force. Not very subtle, but unless you brought artillery or aero, good luck cracking it. (Oddly enough, also surprisingly effective in a city.)

Cool. I haven't spent a lot of time with vehicles yet, but I think that's what I should add to expand my forces next.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 25 September 2017, 13:48:36
The tanks in question would be the fire support Century in my VI Legio armored forces - A Behemoth, two Heavy LRM Carriers, and two Pikes.

Back in the day I'd have used twin Behemoth Flamer and three Heavy LRM Carriers in my support Century. Now I prefer the Weapon Carriers: four Standard LB-X and one AC/20!

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 01 October 2017, 04:20:28
Recently I grew very fond of the trailers. If I need artillery or fire support and I don't plan to move them around a lot they are are a great alternative to vees. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baron RedSkull on 02 October 2017, 18:39:28
I like making up my own schemes, this is one I use for my Marian mercs : The Last Legion
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4363/36151475963_5b53f75448_b.jpg)

I didn't realize the hegemony had access to proto-mechs. 😂
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Archangel on 03 October 2017, 00:38:15
I didn't realize the hegemony had access to proto-mechs. 😂

What you haven't heard that survivors from the Society have made their way to the Hegemony and have allied themselves with the Caesar?  :))
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 09 October 2017, 16:39:25
I ended up picking up a couple Saladin Hover Tanks to start. I really need to get around to painting someday...

How do people like to do combined arms? Mix at the cohort level? Maniple? Century?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 09 October 2017, 17:07:23
In my limited exposure, I've kept things reasonably similar at the century level, and mixed at the maniple/cohort level. Seemed to keep things simpler.

W.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 09 October 2017, 22:38:33
Same here, though I've no compunctions against mixing within a century if needed to fill in my points, especially within the Auxilia formations.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 09 October 2017, 22:43:39
There's a minor nit in the AS platoon rules for forces, in that it wants pairs of vehicles. I've got two approaches:

1) Allow 3 to be the same as 2 (eg. 2-3), or
2) don't count singletons (so 2-2-1, with the odd vee not counting for bonus purposes)

Of course minimum requirements (eg. must have 10"+ move) still apply.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 10 October 2017, 14:15:50
In my limited exposure, I've kept things reasonably similar at the century level, and mixed at the maniple/cohort level. Seemed to keep things simpler.

W.
Same here, although now that I'm playing Alpha Strike more than Classic Btech a mixed century is not too uncommon.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 11 October 2017, 11:11:34
Thank you for your responses! I was wondering if I should pick up some more vehicles to fill out the century, or mix them in with something else. I should probably decide what I'd like to support the Saladins either way...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 12 October 2017, 18:24:33
Mind showing what you've gotten so far?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 12 October 2017, 18:43:18
Not at all!

Vehicles:
Saladin x2

Infantry:
Foot Platoon x2

'Mechs:
Locust
Jenner
Wolfhound
Centurion
Catapult
Grasshopper
BattleMaster
Atlas x2
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 16 October 2017, 21:36:27
Do any of the sourcebooks have canon unit compositions? I have Legio I and MH decals and thought that would help me decide which to put on what.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 17 October 2017, 09:16:24
No list of what mechs are in a unit, but it does give you a idea of the units fighting style, and maybe average mech weight. IE Assault, Heavy, Medium, Light.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 21 October 2017, 21:06:23
In Field Manual: Periphery?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 21 October 2017, 21:14:16
All the FMs. Depending on which immediate era you wish to configure your Legio in.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 21 October 2017, 21:24:50
Thanks!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 23 October 2017, 10:56:14
Putting together a vehicle Century for VI Legio. I'm looking at four Testudos and a....???
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 23 October 2017, 11:28:54
Fulcrum Hover tank, I believe it has TAG.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 23 October 2017, 12:21:55
I'd put the Fulcrum in a separate Century. For me, the speed difference would make it very difficult to keep the Century as a coherent fighting force. Better to have two Centuries, one fast and one slow, than to see a single Century spread to hell and gone.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 23 October 2017, 13:03:47
Putting together a vehicle Century for VI Legio. I'm looking at four Testudos and a....???

And a Devastator bodyguard?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 23 October 2017, 13:22:17
Took me a bit to realize you meant the tank. This is definitely a nice idea... :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 23 October 2017, 17:57:42
I'd put the Fulcrum in a separate Century. For me, the speed difference would make it very difficult to keep the Century as a coherent fighting force. Better to have two Centuries, one fast and one slow, than to see a single Century spread to hell and gone.
I have grown to prefer mixed units, speedsters as spotters/harassers with the Missile/Arty in the back.

Besides one of the best features of the Testudo is it can defend itself, and four of them mean your opponent is risking a lot of damage with the hopes of a quick knockout. >:D
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 24 October 2017, 12:23:37
Why not drop a Tetsu?

Why? Why not? A fire support brace of three A4 on some otherwise fine tanks followed by some ERL fire from paired supporting Myrmidons (Anti-Infantry ) sporting a couple of Contuberiums of Maruader BA sounds like fun! And if you throw in a few Ambush gun trailers unto the Myrmidons, you could possible pull another pair of Contuberiums as well. Dropping them off to use as fall back points.

What I tried to do is give you some TAG that is dependable, current and should work. I mean looking at the stats from 2 damage per SPPC hits, nothing for the rest. ( Unless sarna is right then depending on what you loadout is possible 2 for the LRR and 1 each in AP ( classic Auto-Rifle ).

FUN FACT: While most A4 rounds are fun, try using Smoke, also the LRR can be loaded with Smoke, thoughts of joy now...

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 29 October 2017, 07:43:54
What artillery would you recommend for someone playing Jihad-era?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 29 October 2017, 09:05:35
What artillery would you recommend for someone playing Jihad-era?

Tube or missile?

Master unit list gave the MH the Mobile Long Tom Artillery, Chaparral,  the Mechanized Field Artillery and Missile Artillery Infantry.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 29 October 2017, 09:10:16
I guess I don’t know enough to answer that question! What do they do differently?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 29 October 2017, 10:10:11
I guess I don’t know enough to answer that question! What do they do differently?

Tube pieces are the Long Tom, Sniper and Thumper. Ballistic indirect weapons that can use a number of alternative ammunitions like smoke, AP, ilumination, Copperhead, etc.

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/cso-images/schemes/31_maddoc_fedsuns_6sytris_thorarty.jpg)

Missile artillery systems are basically the Arrow IV system and the Cruise Missiles. The later are rather heavy, and used almost exclusivly in defensive instalations and DropShips. The Arrow IV is a missile system that can be used in almost all the units types, and also have a number of diferent ammo types. It have a smaller range than the tube weapons, but is also lighter.

(http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/7/7f/Testudo.jpg/800px-cwrr9isr5bkspc69181r82s8ml5fzs0.jpg?timestamp=20130703003725)

That is the Testudo, a heavy tank that carries an Arrow IV system (the big missile launcher on the turret), plus and Ultra AutoCanon and some machine guns.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 29 October 2017, 10:27:29
Thank you for the detailed explanation, that was great.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 29 October 2017, 10:39:23
Thank you for the detailed explanation, that was great.

Adiuvare semper est paratum. If you have more question about the Hegemony, you found the best place to get answers.  ;)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 29 October 2017, 19:21:18
discere paratus sum! What I’m trying to do now is decide what to add to my miniature collection. I’d like to be able to field a combined arms maniple. I expect to mostly play Alpha Strike.

This is what I have currently:
Vehicles:
Saladin x2

Infantry:
Foot Platoon x2

'Mechs:
Locust
Jenner
Wolfhound
Centurion
Catapult
Grasshopper
BattleMaster
Atlas x2
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: DOC_Agren on 29 October 2017, 23:31:25
Well the real question is do you want your Artillery On the board/ close = ArrowIV up to 8 map boards away or deployed at a distance providing long range fire support for you the Long Tom up to 30 maps away.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 30 October 2017, 09:18:46
 For tanks the Marian produce, J Edgars, Harasser, Gladius, Fulcrum Hover tanks and they would work well with the Saladins.

We got really good Battle Armor, although they are slow. Look up the Marauder BA and Ravager BA.

For mechs Gladiator , Icarus II, Emperor, Centurion,  Commando, and Locust are all locally produced.  However the Marian buy what ever they can get their hands on.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 05 November 2017, 11:50:12
I have now added an Icarus II an Eisenfaust and a couple Vedettes.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 05 December 2017, 12:25:59
Finally got this game in! 200PV Alpha Strike, Dark Age, dense urban setting. My opponent fielded FWL, one lance of Mechs much heavier than mine and one platoon of vehicles, both under full complement.

I started off on the wrong foot, losing my Locust to a Unit Destroyed critical and generally rolling terribly for the first several rounds. Things picked up for me later in the game and I was able to narrow the gap, but by then I was down to inner structure on most everything. We called the game when I was down to a single Vedette at 1/2 movement and 0 Damage due to a motive hit and a weapon crit. He still had 1 Vedette and 2 Regulators.

What I missed was some long range hitters. I also play Infinity and have been applying the common "slicing the pie" tactics from Infinity to Battletech with good results, but it's harder to do in closer range. The Icarus I was able to move around well, but the Myrmidon I just mismanaged, it was trapped behind buildings changing directions to keep up with the rest of the battle and mostly not ending up with LoF to anything. The Eisenfaust being slower than the rest of the troops just couldn't always move to have sights on the same target I was hoping to focus on.

Any favourite Snipers or Missile Boats with good maneouvreability?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 05 December 2017, 19:04:40
Thumper TAV-1 ICE, mostly. You could also use standard field guns.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 05 December 2017, 20:23:25
Bombardiers, Catapults, Archers, Whitworth and Dervish for Missile Boats .

Awesome, Marauder, Warhammers for Snipers
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 06 December 2017, 15:29:52
What would you call a Merlin?

Cause I rolled up one last week for a tryout AS game this week.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 07 December 2017, 12:27:00
Icarus II ICR-2S
Eisenfaust EFT-7X
Centurion CN9-Ar
Apollo APL-1M
BattleMaster BLR-1Gc

Vedette Medium Tank (Cell)
Vedette Medium Tank (Cell)
Saladin Assault Hover Tank (Armor)
Saladin Assault Hover Tank (Armor)
Brutus Assault Tank (Standard)


This is what I came up with the other day. Maybe I'll swap the Apollo for a CPLT-C1b, though. I might have to adjust skill ratings to fit it into 300PV (I bumped almost everything to 3 rather than adding a Century because my dice were _terrible_ last game) but it is more maneouvreable, and hits harder to boot. Last MUL listing is Periphery General during the Early Republic, so I imagine the Hegemony could have some in the Dark Ages. Thanks for sharing your recommendations!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 07 December 2017, 12:30:19
Merlin is a useful trooper. I like to use it as a backbone for Trooper Centuries.

BTW-as for Missile Boats also look at the Apollo, Cobra, Hammer, Longbow and Yeoman.

The 2R Marauder is indeed an excellent sniper- or if you want a light 'Mech in that role take the 9T Razorback or the lPPC Stinger.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 07 December 2017, 20:08:35
What do you guys think of a Century made of a pair of Testudo, a pair of Behemoth II Support and a single Behemoth II?

Same speed, great support, very mobile artillery.

Thoughts? What would make this a Maniple from hell? Triple Scorpion LAC and paired Heavy APC LRMs w/ Jump TAG Infantry Century?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 08 December 2017, 07:10:57
Should work very well.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 08 December 2017, 07:17:47
I would add a very fast spotter for it, but then I prefer self supporting Centurys. So

A pair of Testudos, a pair of Behemoth II Support and a single DI Multipurpose Light VTOL (Standard) or Fulcrum Heavy Hovertank (Standard).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 09 December 2017, 05:00:30
I'd go hover APCs, and Pegasus 3058 upgrade instead of the Scorpions. More punch (at shorter range, admittedly), plus all the electronics you could want. Don't know if they're on the Marian list, but I'd expect so.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 09 December 2017, 09:22:18
Looks like no such luck, however I can get the Harraser T-Bolt, downgrade it to the Mini-Peggy variant. Also I can get the Main Gauche, standard and IFV and the Gladius Mk II.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 09 December 2017, 12:48:35
If in period, ALWAYS take the Main Gauche IFV.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 09 December 2017, 15:16:41
Planning too!

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 30 December 2017, 22:12:32
Happy Saturnalia Boys and Girls of Periphery!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 31 December 2017, 13:13:33
And for you!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 31 December 2017, 19:11:31
Happy New Year fellow space Romans!!!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 31 December 2017, 21:02:45
Happy new year everyone :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 31 December 2017, 23:21:57
Happy New Year! People from the periphery, may this be a great year for all
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 01 January 2018, 13:17:02
Happy new year. May it sucessful and good for all of you and may it bring us new stuff for our favourite game as well!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 02 January 2018, 03:00:55
ilClan  8)

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 03 January 2018, 01:00:26
Happy New Year! I think I’ll resolve to use C3 networks. Any favourites?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 03 January 2018, 01:45:26
iC3. Best suits us.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 03 January 2018, 10:03:58
Happy New Year! I think I’ll resolve to use C3 networks. Any favourites?

Hauptmann D, Banshee 8S, Barghest 4X, BattleMaster 10S2. Typically they just have to accept that something will be throwing a 22 point shell with short range modifiers from 20ish hexes away just to deal with the Banshee and BattleMaster.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 03 January 2018, 10:49:38
The Gladiator 5R has a slave unit. The downside is they don't have alot of units with C3 masters.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 03 January 2018, 11:21:39
Yeah I've noticed that. Mobile interface for MUL doesn't have filtering features, but now that I'm on a computer it looks like the MUL doesn't have any C3M listed for Marian Hegemony. I know it's incomplete, so maybe there's something that makes sense to include...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 03 January 2018, 12:54:02
Maybe the C3M Schreck? Potentially could have bought or salvaged some.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 03 January 2018, 13:17:02
Well, the Hegemony barely makes 'Mechs, let alone cutting edge ones with an advanced teamwork targeting system that accommodates either 4/12 or 6 units.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 04 January 2018, 14:06:59
Our only c3m is in the Zugvogel for now.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Terrordactyl on 04 January 2018, 14:25:48
Oh nice I missed that option. Thanks!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 06 February 2018, 22:32:26
Our only c3m is in the Zugvogel for now.

Alphard Trading Corporation makes the Schrek PPC carrier on Leximon, it has a C3M variant...

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 07 February 2018, 08:21:10
Leximon is an ATC plant but it supplies the Lothario forces, it is likely that the Factory of Addhara will also manufacture it although we do not have confirmation.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 19 March 2018, 21:38:47
Curious... How would you assign these?

I want to MechInf a Century using Tracked APCs: 6x SRM and 4x Standard. Or should I run Hover versions, where 6x SRM, 3x Standard and a single Sensor?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 19 March 2018, 22:31:42
If you're trying to mechanize a foot Century using the squad-sized APCs, don't you need a Standard APC for each squad? I thought the fancy APC variants got their cool stuff by sacrificing the cargo bay.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 19 March 2018, 22:51:54
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hover_APC (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hover_APC)

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wheeled_APC (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wheeled_APC)

Look under the Variants in each...  >:D

Just wish I could make an official Jeep variant! 1 MG and half ammo for 1 ton cargo!

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 20 March 2018, 08:38:23
Or instead of Sarna, I'll look at an actual source, such as RS 3039.

...huh. You're right on the hover, but the Tracked versions all lose their cargo for the extra stuff. My advice would be to go with your plan on the hover force, but for a tracked Century, go with platoons and Heavy APCs. You can take a foot Century, four of the up-gunned Tracked Heavy APCs of your chosen flavor, and a single light tank of your choice to round out the vee Century. The hover group would make an excellent patrol/recon/fast reaction force, while the tracked guys are heavy assault troops, easily capable of fighting alongside(or against) mechs and tanks.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 25 March 2018, 16:14:04
Curious... How would you assign these?

I want to MechInf a Century using Tracked APCs: 6x SRM and 4x Standard. Or should I run Hover versions, where 6x SRM, 3x Standard and a single Sensor?

TT

More on this...

Wanting to make an Ordo Vigilis Century... specifically Operationes Abscondites ( Covert Operations ), should I make a Maniple with attached BA Security backup?

Think PBI MPs... beast equipped? ( Arcturan Razorcats anyone? ) like K-9 units.

but for a tracked Century, go with platoons and Heavy APCs. You can take a foot Century, four of the up-gunned Tracked Heavy APCs of your chosen flavor, and a single light tank of your choice to round out the vee Century.

Running 3 LRM Heavy Tracked APCs, a MG version and a single Galleon-200(RL) for support.

In other words, 12 tons of space, 5-5/8+ movers, 3-LRM5, 1-SRM4, 2-RL20, 4-RL10, 14-MGs...  >:D

Thoughts?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 25 March 2018, 19:18:20
Looks good , what BA are you thinking of?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 25 March 2018, 19:27:09
Asterion [MRR] or Marauder for it's MagClamps?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Deadborder on 25 March 2018, 22:46:27
You get points from me for using the Galleon RL
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 25 March 2018, 22:57:09
From you, Koolbeanz!

Now how much weight is the Foot vs. Jump? Isn't 1 per 10 Troopers like the rest? So 10 for Foot and 5 for Jump?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Deadborder on 25 March 2018, 23:26:04
I use the Galleon (RL) in my own Periphery Campaign (alibet with "modern" rockets). It's surprisingly nasty all things considered.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 25 March 2018, 23:31:12
Yeah, I wanted to show the Cheesemaker / Organgrinder effect with some Splashy-Splashy Boom-Boom! Hose Em! with Rockets for fun...

Cheap and easy!  :P

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 March 2018, 08:15:39
I think the Ordo Vigilis had some Battlearmor troops for Black Ops, the Imps believe that it's called the unit, they had Kage battlearmor
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 27 March 2018, 08:17:35
More on this...

Wanting to make an Ordo Vigilis Century... specifically Operationes Abscondites ( Covert Operations ), should I make a Maniple with attached BA Security backup?
Quote
For covert ops, I would take nothing heavier than a sneak suit for anyone, and any scenario that involves them in a non-AToW-scale fight should end with an officer getting fed to lions for gross misuse of critical resources. They really don't belong on a TW-scale battlefield except in true emergencies, when there literally are no other infantry you could throw at the problem.
Running 3 LRM Heavy Tracked APCs, a MG version and a single Galleon-200(RL) for support.

In other words, 12 tons of space, 5-5/8+ movers, 3-LRM5, 1-SRM4, 2-RL20, 4-RL10, 14-MGs...  >:D

Thoughts?

TT

I like! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 27 March 2018, 08:23:34
From you, Koolbeanz!

Now how much weight is the Foot vs. Jump? Isn't 1 per 10 Troopers like the rest? So 10 for Foot and 5 for Jump?

TT

When using platoons, same as normal. You use the generic Clan platoons(25 troopers) as sub-platoons, and they're 3 tons for foot and 4 for jump.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 30 March 2018, 14:07:52
When using platoons, same as normal. You use the generic Clan platoons(25 troopers) as sub-platoons, and they're 3 tons for foot and 4 for jump.

So four 25-Trooper platoons per MH? And I can fit 2.5 tons per  Hvy APC?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sharpnel on 30 March 2018, 15:17:43
I break it down to three 30-man platoon (3 contebernium each) and a command contebernium
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 30 March 2018, 15:23:49
So four 25-Trooper platoons per MH? And I can fit 2.5 tons per  Hvy APC?

TT

They still weigh three tons apiece, but yes. The full stats are in Total War, mass included.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 30 March 2018, 17:29:41
I break it down to three 30-man platoon (3 contebernium each) and a command contebernium

All Eggs in a basket?

They still weigh three tons apiece, but yes. The full stats are in Total War, mass included.

Oh I know... very well. Just wanting to understand.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 02 April 2018, 19:27:44
And if you're wondering how to do Marian-style airmobile infantry...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: snakespinner on 03 April 2018, 01:36:11
Weirdo that was great.
Now I know how the Praetorian guard travels so fast. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 03 April 2018, 07:01:40
There's a reason my planned IV Legio group includes a full Century of Karnovs. Four birds means hauling a Century of foot troops and two of jump, with a rocket model as escort. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 03 April 2018, 17:07:21
Have you thought of using the Upgraded 3055 Karnov, slower but carries more and adds a MG per side?

I just thought of this: running three Prowler SW and two Prowler Support. 20 and 22 PV each.

Giving me 32 tons of Infantry spread out...

This a better choice than the Heavy APC / Galleon or as the support Century to it?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 03 April 2018, 18:30:16
Have you thought of using the Upgraded 3055 Karnov, slower but carries more and adds a MG per side?

That's my default. The infantry complement I described won't fit in four of the original model.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 12 April 2018, 20:23:49
I need a Recon / Light Assualt Maniple... anyone got a comeback that I could piggy off?

Werido, you should have one... want to keep the BV / PV low no more than 3500 BV / 100 PV total.

Wanting 5/8 + with a lot of daka if possible.

Thanks in advance,
TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 15 April 2018, 10:10:58
'Mechs or Combined arms?

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 17 April 2018, 15:23:50
Try both Mech and tank...maybe some BA thrown in?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 19 April 2018, 10:19:42
You may want to adapt it a bit but I sometimes play with a Maniple consisting of a century made up of of 2 Gladii, 2 Marauders plus a Gladius II while the other Century consists of Mechs only: Firestarter M4, Icarus 2S, Gladiator 5R, Stinger 3P, Vulcan 5Sr.

The BA can hitch a ride on the Mechs or the tanks and while I usually prefer more LRMs in my Maniples the ACs, PPCs and Plasma rifle offer quite a punch for a unit like this.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 19 April 2018, 22:17:22
2 Gladii, 2 Marauders plus a Gladius II

What about a JagerMech JM6-H, a pair of Whitworth WTH-1H and a pair of Centurion CN9-H with those hovers and BA combo?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 20 April 2018, 07:07:30
I like that, the Jager 6-H has served me very well. Give them RL hell!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Martius on 20 April 2018, 12:06:35
Yep,  JagerMech is very good indeed- give your selection a try. Looks good!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Deadborder on 20 April 2018, 18:45:11
I had somebody try to bum rush a 6H Jaegermech figuring that it would be vunerable at short range. That worked out well for them
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 20 April 2018, 19:27:21
I had somebody try to bum rush a 6H Jaegermech figuring that it would be vunerable at short range. That worked out well for them

LOL I had Mad Cat do just that. On the way in the player decided to shot at the more "dangerous mechs" once he was at point blank it was 90 RLs away. I shutdown but the Mad Cat was destroyed . >:D
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 04 May 2018, 20:34:36
https://www.4shared.com/photo/9XRAjcxHfi/Periferia_1_Edicion.html (https://www.4shared.com/photo/9XRAjcxHfi/Periferia_1_Edicion.html)
 From what is read there, I see no impediment that the Marian Hegemony manufacture Battlemech and even quietly could manufacture mechs of RWR origin, such as Phoenix or Rampage or other mechs that the RWR manufactured

Because the Marian Hegemony can not do retro-engineering, find Blueprints or directly find the factory directly
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 04 May 2018, 20:52:40
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10215922844813091&set=gm.184784772171060&type=3&ifg=1 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10215922844813091&set=gm.184784772171060&type=3&ifg=1)

 From what is read there, I see no impediment that the Marian Hegemony manufacture Battlemech and even quietly could manufacture mechs of RWR origin, such as Phoenix or Rampage or other mechs that the RWR manufactured

Because the Marian Hegemony can not do retro-engineering, find Blueprints or directly find the factory directly

Image of what Adacas is comenting on:

screencap of the MW RPG 1ed concerning the ATC and Alphard deleted. Will do a sumary tomorrow. Sorry, did not know that did count as a Rule 10 violation.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 04 May 2018, 21:02:47
Thanks, I can not get the image of what went up, but I think it is very clear about the topic, Factory, Mechs and possible origin
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 04 May 2018, 21:48:43
Hey, who remembers Rule 10 of this forum? C:-)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 05 May 2018, 11:54:52
Hey, who remembers Rule 10 of this forum? C:-)

Apparently you do, why else the copper emoji?

On an other note, my unit survived against an AU Jade Wolf 3050-era fight!

My Cohort with that special unit vs. a Nova of medium weight omnis.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 05 May 2018, 18:55:43
Well, sorry for the Rule 10 violation. Did not realize that posting an excerpt of an old BT book could be a violation. Will be more carefull next time.

Now, the excerpt was from the old MW RPG 1ed. I found it thanks to Mendrugo`s thread in Novel and Sourcebook Reviews and Skiltao`s blog. It was from page 136 of the book. The book talks about the Marian hegemony without naming it that way. In fact, talks about how O`Reilly is the overlord of Alphard, the ATC, and have economic hegemony over 8 worlds. Now, point by point.

*ATC was once one of the greatest concerns in the Periphery.

*Its Board of Directors like to dabble in politics (it caused to be hit hard during the Amaris Civil War and SWs).

*Amaris was one of their main clients, and they produced 30 mechs/month in mid-28Th century. Now, we know that in the early 2700`s the ATC created a number of "baby ATCs" all around the Sphere and Periphery, but so far all leads that the Alphard ATC was the main one. Could this mean that the Alphard installations manufactured mechs for Amaris? Or it refers to the ATC-KY of Kendall? Or another unknown facility?

*When Sebastian O`Reilly found the refining facility in planet IV (which is the current MH capital), it holded 50 millon C-Bills in Germanium, enough to "several hundred drive cores". In my own opinion, 50 millon is a little..."anemic". I think they really meant to add one or two zeros to that number, at least.

*The rest continues with what we know, he hired mercs, and secured his realm. What is interesting is that apparently the surrounding zone was already inhabitated. It describes it with "other savaged planets in the area in cooperation with the petty governments and populacesthat remainded. Was the zone colonized during the Star League era? By whom? We know of worlds like Comstock IV and Francas in the area being during the SL era, so it is a possibility that there are more inhabitated worlds around.

*Its curious that describe that Johann and Marius have created a national entity that "presently enjoys a standard of living rivaling of any Successor State". That means that they did a very good job, or that life in the Inner Sphere was crappier that we know.

*Finally, it addressed that Marius, by 3025, have around 1 regiment of mechs, have secured  a reliable source of spare parts (raiding?, some Spheroid corporation?, Comstar?) and have a growing industrial base, but lacks in the technical expertise department to "make rediscoveries of lost technology".

*Final note: In the background we see a symbol that apparently is a "O" over a "R". Could this be the House O`Reilly family crest?.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 May 2018, 23:25:33
Baldur I think that the Kendall Mech Factory between ATC - Kalidasa Industries is quite more modern than the factory mentioned by you, so I think it must be in Alphard or another peripheral world
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 07 May 2018, 18:09:51
* Pokes Weirdo and others... *

A little background info for you...

Last night I watched a really good Chinese historical movie about the Romans!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Blade_(film) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Blade_(film))

Good film, made me itch all day at work thinking of the implications I could do...

Now need to make a unit based of the Reverse!

Instead of Romans fighting with Chinese, opposite... now who would that be?

So far I've narrowed it down to St. Ives Sentinels... First or Second? Both have a good rep I could lay into.

I still want to Dark Age Maniples using Xin Sheng tactics. ( Augmented Lances... in a HM formation. )

Suggestions?

Ideal method: Like the Aug Lances of Liao...

Century type 1- 3 mechs and 2 vehicles
Century type 2- 3 mechs and 2 Squads of BA
Century type 3- 3 vehicles and 2 mechs
Century type 4- 3 vehicles and 2 Squads of BA

Making a Maniple from two of these Centuries.

SO, in other words... what do you think?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 08 May 2018, 03:50:08
It's good, but nowhere near historical  ;)

No Roman Emperor would campaign into Central Asia or Western China with a mere legion even if it was logistically possible.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 08 May 2018, 20:41:34
Well not according to the making of Dragon Blade where Jackie Chan is speaking his native tongue...

Turn Foes into Friends

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=OE_yWoG5KY_XzwKkhYmYBA&q=is+dragon+blade+historically+accurate&oq=is+Dragon+Blade+historical%3F&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i22i30k1l2.2775.11140.0.13841.30.22.0.0.0.0.985.985.6-1.1.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..29.1.983.0...0.XMPn9bxfQjk (https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=OE_yWoG5KY_XzwKkhYmYBA&q=is+dragon+blade+historically+accurate&oq=is+Dragon+Blade+historical%3F&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i22i30k1l2.2775.11140.0.13841.30.22.0.0.0.0.985.985.6-1.1.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..29.1.983.0...0.XMPn9bxfQjk)

and

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/8154490/Chinese-villagers-descended-from-Roman-soldiers.html (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/8154490/Chinese-villagers-descended-from-Roman-soldiers.html)

Both do lend some weight to the subject.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 09 May 2018, 18:59:15
Historically the many legionnaires captured at Carrhae were sent to the other side of Parthia as a penal unit and encountered the Chinese. They could also have been captured in turn and brought to China and settled there. That's how they could've built an European-style settlement in China.

We do know there were embassies and exchanges between Rome and Han China, but that's the extent of it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: DOC_Agren on 09 May 2018, 20:56:33
I will say the movie wasn't bad, but then I like Jackie Chan and John Cusack.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 09 May 2018, 21:08:47
Back on target...

What about a Xin Sheng style MH force?

Century type 1- 3 mechs and 2 vehicles
Century type 2- 3 mechs and 2 Squads of BA
Century type 3- 3 vehicles and 2 mechs
Century type 4- 3 vehicles and 2 Squads of BA

Making a Maniple from two of these Centuries.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 10 May 2018, 08:25:07
I would go with 1 and 2. The matching numbers of vees and BA squads gives you some flexibility, since you can go with Marauders that can ride anything and choose whatever you want for the vehicle slots, or choose stuff with transport capacity for the vees, letting you choose other kinds of suit.


Hmm...If you go with Marauders and Testudos, and fast general purpose mechs, then the mechs can race forward to get into range and drop off the MADsuits in a nice shooting position to dig in. You've now got a powerful maneuver element in your mechs(with the option to split them up as needed), a sizeable area on the map that the other guy will want to avoid for fear of TAG missiles and the suits' own firepower, and a slow-rolling anvil in the form of the Testudos. Triple threat! :) Best of all, since the tanks are the only really big units, this force will likely be cheap.

Random thought: Has anyone tried using our Charger variant as a Marauder ferry? It's got the speed to do the job, the durability to survive getting them in close, and makes a wonderful distraction simply by being a big scary assault mech, giving the Marauders time to do the real work.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 10 May 2018, 13:46:52
I was thinking the same... mixing two Chargers with a JagerMech and pairs of Marauders, along with a Type 3 Century using paired Tetsudos, an SRM Ignis and two Centurions!

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: DavyJones on 18 July 2018, 12:08:41
 Has any one experimented with clan unit concepts like supernovas ? I`ve been kicking that idea around a little and would be interested in input .I was thinking of basing it off a clan wolf mixed trinary , 1 mech century with attached marauder century and a vehicle century with attached jump infantry century . Any thoughts ?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 19 July 2018, 09:16:45
I've used mixed Centuries and Maniples with success. It's a lot of fun and breaks up the mech only battles that happen a lot.  I also like that you can get a lot of tactical flexibility with mixed setups.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 02 August 2018, 06:53:38
Definitely! A century of BA and a century of IFVs make a great maniple. The examples you give are good too.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 August 2018, 12:13:13
Did the Marians really hit the Magistry?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 07 August 2018, 12:17:10
Repeatedly. It's a popular pastime in the Hegemony. :)

In Shattered Fortress? No clue, but the preview ToC certainly seems to imply it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sharpnel on 07 August 2018, 13:40:03
Did the Marians really hit the Magistry?
Captured Thraxa, then lost it. Attcaked Gambilon and Marantha if memory serves. Stunning assaults followed by equally stunning retreats. AFAICT there no net gains, only losses of personneland equipment and eventually a couple of MH worlds to the MoC.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 August 2018, 14:36:53
'preview ToC'?

Yeah, Shattered Fortress with the timing makes me wonder if that was how Nikol planned to deal with Marian aggression . . .

So, Brooks gets sacked on Kendall . . . which means Bulwark, Galleon & Main Gauche- no heavy mechs from KY-ATC.  I mean I am familiar with sack in the historical sense, but was that really applied to a factory they hope to one day take?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: wantec on 08 August 2018, 09:07:13
'preview ToC'?

Yeah, Shattered Fortress with the timing makes me wonder if that was how Nikol planned to deal with Marian aggression . . .

So, Brooks gets sacked on Kendall . . . which means Bulwark, Galleon & Main Gauche- no heavy mechs from KY-ATC.  I mean I am familiar with sack in the historical sense, but was that really applied to a factory they hope to one day take?
I don't know for certain, but my guess would be a combo factory raid and sabotage. Take all recent production and damage it enough to stop production for awhile. I doubt they completely destroyed the factory, like you said, they may one day want to capture it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 August 2018, 11:59:02
If its not nailed down, load it in the trucks.  If you cannot load it all in the trucks, heat it up and wrap it around telephone poles.  Mechs stomp on all the concrete in the construction and knock machinery off brackets/mounting.  Drag all the powerlines back to the dropzone with you?

Should make folks happy, the Hegemony gets Main Gauche IFVs!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 08 August 2018, 17:56:10
I just hope they gain back some ground in the next book. I kinda expected the FWL to hit back, but to lose Illiyra hurt.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 08 August 2018, 18:08:32
If we are guided by what the book says, it is anti-economic to conserve Illyria and the rest of the planets, apart from Tamarind leaving all the rest of the borders unguarded.

Fixed that you have to kick out the canopians of Ballalaba and Islington, make more units and hire extra mercs for garrisons
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 08 August 2018, 19:37:21
I was trying to compile a list of battlemechs made in the Hegemony (to include Marian refits).  Here’s what I’ve got:


Locust LCT-1V2
Commando COM-4H
Centurion CN9-H
JagerMech JM6-H
Charger CGR-2A2
Marauder II MAD-4H


Did I miss any?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 08 August 2018, 20:53:32
Mechs ( with likely upgrades)
Locust LCT-1V2, Commando COM-4H
Icarus ICR-1X move to ICR-2S
Centurion CN9-H move to CN9-Ar
Gladiator GLD-1R move to GLD-5R
Emperor EMP-1A move to EMP-6A

Tanks
 APC's, Maultier, Harasser, J.E. Hover, Gladius, Gladius II, Fulcrum, Testudo, SRM, Laser, AC2 Carrier, Hvy LRM Carrier (was in the works as of 3085)

BA
Marauder and Ravager

Fighters
Shilone



Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 09 August 2018, 03:53:37
Is Shattered Fortress already available for sale?

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 09 August 2018, 08:10:47
The .pdf is.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 09 August 2018, 08:56:11
About time  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Knightmare on 09 August 2018, 21:17:36
Sorry for what I did, but you Marians deserved it.  ;)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 10 August 2018, 11:47:26
Burn the traitor!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sharpnel on 10 August 2018, 11:55:13
Ave Proditor!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 10 August 2018, 12:12:01
Everything is returned, if someone deserves everything that happens is the FWL, and insurance will be returned all x triplicate, are far from home and with their other naked borders and commercial and economic sanctions, Fontaine should go and there will lose everything who got
And who knows out there has pirate surprise, some Lyrans, internal blows, renegade Regulans with Nukes who knows .....
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 10 August 2018, 12:14:26
Sorry for what I did, but you Marians deserved it.  ;)

It's not easy moving up from the kiddy table.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 10 August 2018, 16:29:05
It's not easy moving up from the kiddy table.

Is that humor?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 August 2018, 16:34:02
Look what happened when the TC & MoC tried it in the 3060s . . . one split apart and had a 80+ year slump while the other had to give the heir to a House Lord along with also prostituting their own regiments for the Cappie ambition.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 10 August 2018, 16:52:50
Look what happened when the TC & MoC tried it in the 3060s . . . one split apart and had a 80+ year slump while the other had to give the heir to a House Lord along with also prostituting their own regiments for the Cappie ambition.


Amen My Brother!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Deadborder on 10 August 2018, 20:47:02
The Mariana bit off far more then they could chew, and that's all there is to it. Had they been going up against the fragmented post Leauge in the early 3130s, then maybe they could have pulled it off. However, picking a fight at that level against a Successor State was never going to work out
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kojak on 10 August 2018, 21:04:23
The Mariana bit off far more then they could chew, and that's all there is to it. Had they been going up against the fragmented post Leauge in the early 3130s, then maybe they could have pulled it off. However, picking a fight at that level against a Successor State was never going to work out

Well, maybe if they'd picked it with the Lyrans. But the newly resurgent Free Worlds League? No, that was just asking for trouble. I will say this, though: I do root for the Marians a bit, they're a scrappy bunch and as a classical history nerd I like that BattleTech has a Space Rome. I just wish they had better discretion when it came to their war-making.

It's not easy moving up from the kiddy table.

Sure, look at how long it took the Capellans. [rimshot]
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 10 August 2018, 21:24:44
Well, maybe if they'd picked it with the Lyrans. But the newly resurgent Free Worlds League? No, that was just asking for trouble. I will say this, though: I do root for the Marians a bit, they're a scrappy bunch and as a classical history nerd I like that BattleTech has a Space Rome. I just wish they had better discretion when it came to their war-making.

Sure, look at how long it took the Capellans. [rimshot]

Who we make war is not decided by the players, Kojak do the authors
if it were for us reading a little the previous posts in their versions III and II you could read that attacking the FWL was only spoken during the period of fragmentation and when much to go for Kendall an independent world does not part of a Duchy
The other options were much more popular, annex the worlds of Circinus, Cultural Anexation of independent worlds of Marik (Lahti, San Nicolas or Sierra)
Colonization and even go beyond Circinus to Lyran space

As for the response from Tamarind not from the NFWL, it is a bit strange that with almost 3 regiments + 1 battalion he achieves what he achieves
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 11 August 2018, 01:38:27
Instead of taking Kendall for the war production and resources, the Marians are scripted to take farther Gibraltar and other fringe worlds. It's funny the book says the Marians attack the Canopians for "raw materials, slaves, and other necessities" but somehow ignore industrious Kendall right on its border  ::)  While in the same book, the Regulans realize the importance of factory worlds and do everything in their power to hold on to Emris IV.

No insight is offered into why the Marians went solo against two Successor State provinces plus the strongest Periphery nation when anybody knows what response this would provoke and they never take any defensive preparations into account. Likewise, the III Legio Prefect acts like he's an independent warlord.

While the Regulans, Anduriens and Canopians attempt an alliance of convenience against the neo-FWL, the book utterly fails to show any outreach by even the Regulans to get the Marians into the action. We get to see the intricacies of neo-FWL politics and characterizations but none of that for the Marian side of the conflict.

TL; DR This book continues the quest to portray the neo-FWL as suffering fake disasters against enemies scripted to make idiotic decisions, to make its eventual triumphs more dramatic.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 August 2018, 01:48:33
They dropped some troops to sack Brooks . . .

 . . . and I thought others here agreed it looked false flag for them to hit Canopus.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 11 August 2018, 02:20:24
Sack, yes. But not take. Why take useless Gibraltar instead of Kendall?

I doubt it's a false flag. That was a trope of the Jihad books and Fortress troops.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 11 August 2018, 10:04:53
They dropped some troops to sack Brooks . . .

 . . . and I thought others here agreed it looked false flag for them to hit Canopus.

Do you want to talk about False Flag my friend? Let's talk about Fontaine's lie that Capela and Canopus supported the Marian Hegemony, because it is a big lie like an Atlas, anyone knows in the FWL that the Hegemony has raided the Canopian Frontier almost for a century, and that is stolen in the raids? Military, civilian equipment, ammunition and supplies, which are Canopians and who are the main benefactors of Canopus? Capela of course, what was all this material that took Gibraltar? Looting Product  ::) ::)

As for Brooks, I hope we could have looted the lines and all the staff possible, because if not in the next book there are people who are very capable of saying that it was a mistake and we ransacked a factory of tractors
Since we talked about looting, one thing that the authors took great care to say nothing about the issue is that we also sacked Marantha and there is a factory of Aerofighters and a refit of Dropships so they could have filled the deposits of things a lot more interesting than the local fauna of the planet

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jimdigris on 11 August 2018, 16:05:27
Look what happened when the TC & MoC tried it in the 3060s . . . one split apart and had a 80+ year slump while the other had to give the heir to a House Lord along with also prostituting their own regiments for the Cappie ambition.
In all fairness to the MoC, giving the heir to the Cappies puts a Centrella on the Capellan throne in a generation.  Furthermore, the Canopian regiments in service to the Cappies got valuable equipment, upgraded factories, and combat experience out of it.  Pirate raids were a pain, but the trade with the Capellans improved the economy significantly.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 11 August 2018, 16:14:47
So we should be trying to arrange a marriage between the Caesar and Nikol Marik, is that what you’re saying? :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jimdigris on 11 August 2018, 21:13:30
It couldn't hurt.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 11 August 2018, 21:37:14
Marians don't marry and inherit.

Marians conquer for the glory of Nova Roma.

OOC the Hegemony is artificially constricted to serve as "that annoying little nation to antagonize the neo-FWL or MoC" when the writers need a convenient plot device for those two nations to score wins.

Else why they keep sticking to unnatural status quos? 5 Legions and Cohors Morituri from 3085-3150 when every neighbour has expanded their military. Never take Kendall or expand in the direction of Balthazar III and Son Hoa when those planets are not part of any Successor States.

Instead, just forever make the Dark Age Marians pirates who sack for little short-term gain when a natural progression would've let us add a Legio VII and VIII by 3150.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 11 August 2018, 22:18:53
Marians don't marry and inherit.

Marians conquer for the glory of Nova Roma.

OOC the Hegemony is artificially constricted to serve as "that annoying little nation to antagonize the neo-FWL or MoC" when the writers need a convenient plot device for those two nations to score wins.

Else why they keep sticking to unnatural status quos? 5 Legions and Cohors Morituri from 3085-3150 when every neighbour has expanded their military. Never take Kendall or expand in the direction of Balthazar III and Son Hoa when those planets are not part of any Successor States.

Instead, just forever make the Dark Age Marians pirates who sack for little short-term gain when a natural progression would've let us add a Legio VII and VIII by 3150.

Do you know what that is called? decision of the writer, a Cesar who in 3145 was fearful and who was entrenched passes in a year to the offensive, make a legio more that refused to do until 3145 (or at least those who said the authors of that time)
But of course they will leave with the theme of Bipolarity or "mental instability" to justify anything, surely in the next they say that they return to the phase of fear and give away the Hegemony in a garage sale


Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 12 August 2018, 08:15:09
The neo-FWL being a creator's pet notwithstanding, the writing quality and more importantly, consistency, of AAA-products like this long-awaited book has to improve.

Reading about the Hegemony sounds like some armchair general planned the factions' actions and movements in the rimward-antispinward Inner Sphere according to wishful thinking without actually giving all the factions equal realistic progression.

At least this mess isn't as big as the inconsistency behind the Federated Suns, but that's for another thread.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jimdigris on 12 August 2018, 11:27:14
Marians don't marry and inherit.

Marians conquer for the glory of Nova Roma.

OOC the Hegemony is artificially constricted to serve as "that annoying little nation to antagonize the neo-FWL or MoC" when the writers need a convenient plot device for those two nations to score wins.

Else why they keep sticking to unnatural status quos? 5 Legions and Cohors Morituri from 3085-3150 when every neighbour has expanded their military. Never take Kendall or expand in the direction of Balthazar III and Son Hoa when those planets are not part of any Successor States.

Instead, just forever make the Dark Age Marians pirates who sack for little short-term gain when a natural progression would've let us add a Legio VII and VIII by 3150.
Look at it this way: The Marians won't need large numbers of jumpships to keep his troops supplied because the front is so close.  Rommel spent as much time retreating in North Africa as he did advancing because of the limits of his supply chain.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 August 2018, 17:35:17
Where is the estimated or total number of Jumpship of the Hegemony supposed to be? Because I have not seen it anywhere, and if you tell me why I do not have a shipyard, I remind the one who searches for the number of jumpships of the Hegemony, that no peripheral state had a shipyard of JumpShips until not long ago, everyone bought outside to stock up or captured in acts of war
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 13 August 2018, 02:56:53
Look at it this way: The Marians won't need large numbers of jumpships to keep his troops supplied because the front is so close.  Rommel spent as much time retreating in North Africa as he did advancing because of the limits of his supply chain.

Why fight such a pointless war in the first place? Gibraltar is a useless target. The writer merely wanted an excuse for the Hegemony to provoke a major FWL province. Kendall isn't part of a province, but it has critical war factories. The best move for the Marians is to seize Kendall and dig in without provoking a major FWL province, while allied with the Regulans. The FWL will be too preoccupied with the bigger fish and take a longer time to respond. But no. The FWL has to lose something worthless so it has an excuse to mop the floor with a minor state and have its military look good.

This is not Terran global warfare. Interstellar warfare costs a lot in terms of supply lines. It is farther and harder to resupply your troops at Gibraltar compared to Kendall and JumpShips are in short supply, valuable cargo space has to be prioritized for the Marians who are limited in resources. Like Rommel, the Marians will be facing major problems resupplying due to the neo-FWL's aerospace supremacy. However close the front is, there will be no resupplying when the neo-FWL has Sea Fox lapdogs and their superior fleets blockading and interdicting whatever they like. Regulans had Merlin R1s and Picaroons, they were swatted away. Marians have nothing resembling an adequate fleet. Unless they ally with the ilClan, the neo-FWL will conquer the Hegemony because of a contrived excuse.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jimdigris on 13 August 2018, 12:07:56
Where is the estimated or total number of Jumpship of the Hegemony supposed to be? Because I have not seen it anywhere, and if you tell me why I do not have a shipyard, I remind the one who searches for the number of jumpships of the Hegemony, that no peripheral state had a shipyard of JumpShips until not long ago, everyone bought outside to stock up or captured in acts of war
The writers were careful not to publish that information after the fans started nitpicking.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Minemech on 13 August 2018, 14:58:32
 Wasn't Gibraltar briefly a capital world? There might be more there than we know.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Deadborder on 13 August 2018, 16:26:01
The writers obviously hate (my faction) because (my faction) suffered some sort of setback and thus it's an attempt to ruin (my faction).

(my faction) should have done what I think they should do, not what the writers did. I know this because I know (my faction) better then the writers do. (my faction) are My People.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 13 August 2018, 19:15:15
I think it is more that FM: 3145 has the Marains as a
" skilled military with a majority of its officers possessing
significant combat experience. Even the loss of the V Legio to the Lothian League has set
back the Hegemony legions only slightly. In many ways, this makes the Marian Hegemony
Armed Forces one of the most battle-hardened militaries in the Periphery (though certainly
not the largest). " to Shattered Fortress portraying them as getting crushed at almost every turn.

I personally can't wait for the next book to see what happens, but as a player that has lost three factions over the years a part of me worries. ;D
 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 August 2018, 19:21:55
I think it is more that FM: 3145 has the Marains as a
" skilled military with a majority of its officers possessing
significant combat experience. Even the loss of the V Legio to the Lothian League has set
back the Hegemony legions only slightly. In many ways, this makes the Marian Hegemony
Armed Forces one of the most battle-hardened militaries in the Periphery (though certainly
not the largest). " to Shattered Fortress portraying them as getting crushed at almost every turn.

I personally can't wait for the next book to see what happens, but as a player that has lost three factions over the years a part of me worries. ;D

You are not the only one who is worried my friend, but good hope that the economic threats and the economic strangulation of the League make the troops of Tamarindo return where they came although of course a series of raids by Lira, pirates or the Empire of Wolf can help in the same way
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Minemech on 13 August 2018, 21:19:36
I think it is more that FM: 3145 has the Marains as a
" skilled military with a majority of its officers possessing
significant combat experience. Even the loss of the V Legio to the Lothian League has set
back the Hegemony legions only slightly. In many ways, this makes the Marian Hegemony
Armed Forces one of the most battle-hardened militaries in the Periphery (though certainly
not the largest). " to Shattered Fortress portraying them as getting crushed at almost every turn.

I personally can't wait for the next book to see what happens, but as a player that has lost three factions over the years a part of me worries. ;D
I still mourn my precious Circinus Federation (You will not hear those last three words together often).

 I do not know how to feel about what happened to my favorite Deep Periphery state, in some ways it is more interesting. Thumbs up to TPTB on that choice.  :thumbsup:  :beer:
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 13 August 2018, 21:33:37
Well at least we won't be attending any more Hazings!

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Minemech on 13 August 2018, 21:45:12
 Free Worlds League formations are full of experienced troops who are used to fighting other powers to win. I will not speak for the Magistracy.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 14 August 2018, 04:26:28
Wasn't Gibraltar briefly a capital world? There might be more there than we know.

From pg.38:
Quote
The loss of Gibraltar dealt a severe blow to Tamarind-Abbey's morale. The system was not a true military stronghold, and it possessed neither industrial nor economic significance, but retained sentimental value among the Tamarind-Abbey people.

So a useless target contrived to get the Hegemony into a war with a Successor State province.

It has been established long ago that Periphery states do not waste their precious regular military on wars with long odds. Compare the Hegemony with a Successor State. In FM3145, the Marians preferred to keep their Legions raiding to hone their skills. Now this ::)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 14 August 2018, 04:27:57
The writers obviously hate (my faction) because (my faction) suffered some sort of setback and thus it's an attempt to ruin (my faction).

(my faction) should have done what I think they should do, not what the writers did. I know this because I know (my faction) better then the writers do. (my faction) are My People.

When you have nothing better to back up your argument than this, it's just sad
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Deadborder on 14 August 2018, 07:51:21
The writer merely wanted an excuse for the Hegemony to provoke a major FWL province. Kendall isn't part of a province, but it has critical war factories... But no. The FWL has to lose something worthless so it has an excuse to mop the floor with a minor state and have its military look good.

Unless they ally with the ilClan, the neo-FWL will conquer the Hegemony because of a contrived excuse.

OOC the Hegemony is artificially constricted to serve as "that annoying little nation to antagonize the neo-FWL or MoC" when the writers need a convenient plot device for those two nations to score wins.

TL; DR This book continues the quest to portray the neo-FWL as suffering fake disasters against enemies scripted to make idiotic decisions, to make its eventual triumphs more dramatic.

So more or less exactly what I said. No attempt to look at the logic of a situation or consider why. Likewise, there's no acceptance that yes, sometimes a faction does suffer losses and setbacks. Similarly, campaigns can be waged for the wrong reasons or have the wrong targets. This is realistic. This happens. Instead, it comes across as lashing out at the authors because something you don't like happened to your favourite faction.

And then there's the ongoing use of "us" and "we" to refer to the Marain Hegemony. Being a player or fan of that faction does not make you a part of that faction. It does not give you any special insight as to the thinking powering it, or the logic behind its decisions from an in-world perspective. As a player, you have a far greater knowledge then the in-world individuals who make the decisions.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 14 August 2018, 08:08:24
It has been established long ago that Periphery states do not waste their precious regular military on wars with long odds.

You must be thinking of another game that didn't have the Taurians, the Canopians, the Circinians and the Rim Worlds Republic.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 14 August 2018, 09:02:13
So more or less exactly what I said. No attempt to look at the logic of a situation or consider why. Likewise, there's no acceptance that yes, sometimes a faction does suffer losses and setbacks. Similarly, campaigns can be waged for the wrong reasons or have the wrong targets. This is realistic. This happens. Instead, it comes across as lashing out at the authors because something you don't like happened to your favourite faction.

And then there's the ongoing use of "us" and "we" to refer to the Marain Hegemony. Being a player or fan of that faction does not make you a part of that faction. It does not give you any special insight as to the thinking powering it, or the logic behind its decisions from an in-world perspective. As a player, you have a far greater knowledge then the in-world individuals who make the decisions.

I would accept the losses and setbacks if they are realistically portrayed. For example, the Lyrans in the same book. They could hold on to Coventry because they were up against only one overextended Clan.

Then there's your specific highlighting of parts of my posts while dropping the others. I also said they gave us plenty of details on the FWL side of the conflict and their leadership, but it seems the Marians are limited to the III Legio Prefect with nothing from the Caesar.

Being players and seeing more than the characters aside, would experienced military strategists and tacticians really go after Gibraltar over something better? You go on and on about I'm on the outside looking in, but have you actually compared the Marians as portrayed in FM3145 and the Marians in Shattered Fortress? Also, in real world or BT, war factories are preferred targets. The Kuritas made the most of their limited forces by specifically targeting Quentin and Marduk in the pre-3050 period and have been reaping the benefits ever since. The Blakists seized every such world or nuked those they couldn't hold. That's realistic. Going for Gibraltar is not.

You must be thinking of another game that didn't have the Taurians, the Canopians, the Circinians and the Rim Worlds Republic.

I should be more specific then. Post-1st SW Periphery states who are alone don't waste their precious militaries. The Taurians, Canopians, and Circinians all had Successor State allies. The size of the Rim Worlds Republic military speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 14 August 2018, 09:46:13
I should be more specific then. Post-1st SW Periphery states who are alone don't waste their precious militaries. The Taurians, Canopians, and Circinians all had Successor State allies. The size of the Rim Worlds Republic military speaks for itself.

The Taurians didn't have anyone to help them when they tussled it up with the Feddies and Hanson's Roughriders. The Canopians had the breakaway Andurians as allies, which I wouldn't count as anything close to the Successor States. The Marians started on some conquest their fans have called for for nigh on a decade and that sort of thing gets responses.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Minemech on 14 August 2018, 10:12:27
 The Magistracy was acting as a rational actor, just as the Duchy was, in that war. I can fully justify the invasion of the Capellan Confederation at that time, from their perspective. They had a rare chance at a power grab and they took it. There is no such thing as the "More harmed principle." It is simply something meant to make people sleep better at night.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 14 August 2018, 12:30:07
They had a rare chance at a power grab and they took it.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 14 August 2018, 13:23:01
Anyone knows when Saint Nicolas and Lahti join the Hegemony? The 3145 map present them as independant, but the Tamarind counter-attack got them, with a battalion of the Dragonslayers in St Nicolas and a the Headhunters in Lahti.

I presume its between 3148 (the Aquilla fluff have a unknow raiding party going for Landfall from Lahti) and 3150 (when the Tamarinds attack).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 14 August 2018, 13:49:35
IIRC, they were considered nominally independent but a client or cultural dependency of the Hegemony.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 14 August 2018, 13:58:45
IIRC, they were considered nominally independent but a client or cultural dependency of the Hegemony.

I am aware of that, but Shattered Fortress present them like beign part of the Hegemony.

Also, another spicy point to discuss: Are the Camacho´s Caballeros the new merc Mary Sues? Yes? No? Maybe?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 14 August 2018, 14:13:29
Pretty sure FM3145 they got punched pretty hard by the Wolves.

Well if your Fontaine and are wanting to stomp a mudhole in the Marian's influence what better way to do it than take worlds they consider in their sphere of influence even if they are not formally Marian . . . and make them rejoin the League.  To justify it the Parliament he would have to claim they were Marian- and really if he says it long enough, it would be taken as fact, especially throwing in the whole 'never look a gift horse in the mouth' thing.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Deadborder on 14 August 2018, 19:04:28
I would accept the losses and setbacks if they are realistically portrayed. For example, the Lyrans in the same book. They could hold on to Coventry because they were up against only one overextended Clan.

Then there's your specific highlighting of parts of my posts while dropping the others. I also said they gave us plenty of details on the FWL side of the conflict and their leadership, but it seems the Marians are limited to the III Legio Prefect with nothing from the Caesar.

Being players and seeing more than the characters aside, would experienced military strategists and tacticians really go after Gibraltar over something better? You go on and on about I'm on the outside looking in, but have you actually compared the Marians as portrayed in FM3145 and the Marians in Shattered Fortress? Also, in real world or BT, war factories are preferred targets. The Kuritas made the most of their limited forces by specifically targeting Quentin and Marduk in the pre-3050 period and have been reaping the benefits ever since. The Blakists seized every such world or nuked those they couldn't hold. That's realistic. Going for Gibraltar is not.

Shattetred Fortress gives us plenty of information of information from the FWL's perspective because that's what the in-universe authors had access to. They might not have had the same degree of access to the Marians to figure out their tacical and strategic thinking, their reasoniong and their choice of targets. They might not actually know what was going on inside the Hegemony to the degree that they would like. There's plenty of good reasons why there's a lot of information from one side, and next to none from the others.

I've looked at FM:3145 and see nothing at all in there about the MHAF that precludes the events of Shattered Fortress. If there's an issue there, you're going to have to be a lot more specific.

Yes, the Marians went after Gibraltar and not Kendall. There could be good reasons for that, but as yet, as players, we are not privy to them. They could still be a part of some greater story that's yet to be fully told. The first thing that comes to mind would be to look at what happened the last time the Marians went after Kendall at the end of the Jihad, which resulted in a complete disaster. They could have delibarately avoided the world for just that reason.

We can speculate on the how's and whys of the situation, but exploding into globs of fanboyish rage and claiming that the authors are ruining the Marian Hegemony for the sake of propping up another factions, with similar accusations of favouritisim is not a useful answer, nor is it supportive of any form of intelligent discourse.

Ultimately, the Marians made mistakes and suffered losses. This happens. This is a part of the Battletech universe, something that has been a part of the fiction since day one. Your faction suffering a loss is not becasue the writers hate it or decided to ruin it for the sake of it.

Now if you want to speculate as to why things happened from an in-universe reason, then that's great. Screaming and crying because bad stuff happened to your favourite faction isn't.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 15 August 2018, 04:03:46
The Taurians didn't have anyone to help them when they tussled it up with the Feddies and Hanson's Roughriders. The Canopians had the breakaway Andurians as allies, which I wouldn't count as anything close to the Successor States. The Marians started on some conquest their fans have called for for nigh on a decade and that sort of thing gets responses.

The Taurians had the Blakists secretly helping them as well as Trinity Alliance output.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 15 August 2018, 04:39:50
Shattetred Fortress gives us plenty of information of information from the FWL's perspective because that's what the in-universe authors had access to. They might not have had the same degree of access to the Marians to figure out their tacical and strategic thinking, their reasoniong and their choice of targets. They might not actually know what was going on inside the Hegemony to the degree that they would like. There's plenty of good reasons why there's a lot of information from one side, and next to none from the others.

I've looked at FM:3145 and see nothing at all in there about the MHAF that precludes the events of Shattered Fortress. If there's an issue there, you're going to have to be a lot more specific.

Yes, the Marians went after Gibraltar and not Kendall. There could be good reasons for that, but as yet, as players, we are not privy to them. They could still be a part of some greater story that's yet to be fully told. The first thing that comes to mind would be to look at what happened the last time the Marians went after Kendall at the end of the Jihad, which resulted in a complete disaster. They could have delibarately avoided the world for just that reason.

We can speculate on the how's and whys of the situation, but exploding into globs of fanboyish rage and claiming that the authors are ruining the Marian Hegemony for the sake of propping up another factions, with similar accusations of favouritisim is not a useful answer, nor is it supportive of any form of intelligent discourse.

Ultimately, the Marians made mistakes and suffered losses. This happens. This is a part of the Battletech universe, something that has been a part of the fiction since day one. Your faction suffering a loss is not becasue the writers hate it or decided to ruin it for the sake of it.

Now if you want to speculate as to why things happened from an in-universe reason, then that's great. Screaming and crying because bad stuff happened to your favourite faction isn't.

For those good reasons, there are also worse reasons to balance them out. This is not the first time information discrepancy has happened. There is an emphasis on the alliance between the Federated Suns and the Republic, but somehow FM3145 goes into far more detail in the Capellan and Lyran factions than the one for the Suns. The in-universe authors are from the Republic, and the Capellans were supposed to have had decades of secrecy and misinformation on their massive build-up and output, but the Capellans get a breakdown by commonality (Lyrans too, by province), but the "allied" Davions somehow get two paragraphs lumped under "Material Readiness" instead of by march.

As others have pointed out in previous posts, the MHAF in FM3145 had a lot of E/V rated cohorts/units and adopted a defensive posture, preferring cultural assimilation of minor neighbours and only raiding major ones to avoid provoking the sort of response seen in Shattered Fortress. Their opponents in the 1st, 7th and 8th Tamarind Regulars were R/V/R rated in experience.

FM3145, pg. 185:
Quote
Still, Caesar Ignatius has refrained from territorial expansion and has instead concentrated on intense raiding across the long Periphery border with the Free Worlds League and deep into the Magistracy of Canopus - activities that seem aimed more at projecting and honing the MHAF's strength.

You see nothing at all?

So they got nuked the last time they went after Kendall. That's routine in BT, especially in the Jihad and Succession Wars. This was a lone world with no membership in any major province. The Legios have no problem coming a second time and capturing the world.

Now, if you want to back your statements of intelligent discourse with factual evidence instead of selectively ignoring and giving ambiguous sweeping statements, you're welcome to. But it's been several long posts and all you do is label people as screaming and crying and engaging in fanboyism when I back my points up with relevant quotes from the source material. Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that, Mr Deadborder.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 15 August 2018, 10:28:00
It's getting rather heated in here. Let's cool things off, please. C:-)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 15 August 2018, 15:00:08
Well, i just made some research in the Shattered Fortress book (and a little in FM:3145 and TRO:3150) and did a recount of the FWL (Tamarind)-MoC/Marian Hegemony war. From that, i made a preliminary butcher's list for the Marian Hegemony. Feel free to help in any thing i might be overlook. Also, in my personal opinion, i presumed that the loosing units retreat unless it is explicitly said that they are destroyed.

I Legio
Tertia Cohors - Destroyed in Illyria (November 3150)

II Legio
Prima Cohors - Damaged after retreating from Hazeldan (August 3150)
Secunda Cohors - Destroyed in Landfall (August 3150)
Tertia Cohors -
Quarta Cohors -
Quinta Cohors  -
(I presume that at least two of this Cohors were in Illyria (November 3150), and the other reinforced it when Prefect Kilgore reinforced the planet (early December 3150)
II Secunda Auxilia Legio - Destroyed in Landfall  (August 3150)
II Caelum Wing - Destroyed or damaged in Illyria (November 3150)

III Legio
Elements are destroyed in Huntington after their dropships are destroyed (August 3150)

IV Legio
I presume that the IV Legio´s Mech Cohors took some damage in their raids to Campoleone and Astrokaszy.
IV's Prima and Secunda Auxilia Legio took some damage in Ballalaba and retreated (to Horatious and/or Pompey? or Baccalieu?)

V Legio
Totally destroyed by Camacho's Caballeros in 3147. The number "5" is apparently cursed, isn't?

VI Legio
Again, after facing the Canopian counter attack in Marantha, Gambillion and the other canopian planets, i can see the mech cohors whit some damage.
VI Prima Auxilia Legio - Destroyed (October 3150)
VI Caelum Wing - Retreated? They downed a Markson´s Marauder dropship, but i presume they retreated after the Auxilia Legio was destroyed (October 3150)

Dragonslayers
This guys were a regiment at 55% in 3145, and they retreat after some combat from Saint Nicolas in August 3150. They retreated deeper into the Hegemony, or the Gibraltar island?

The Head Hunters
Now i think its the final nail in the Head Hunter coffin. They were a battalion at 80% in 3145, and the Camacho's Caballeros capture 2 companies in a nightime drop in early September 3150. Now, captured can be "you and you equipment are seized during the conflict" or "welcome to the dispossessed ranks". Ether way, they are, at best, at 1 company strengh.


In resume: We are seeing one destroyed Legio (the V), and two heavily damaged ones (II and III), plus a merc battalion out of combat. It could be worse to be sincere. Now, the thing is that the enemy in both fronts will have some logistical issues.
The canopians are way far from their friendly lines, so i can see them pillaging both Ballalaba and Islington, and retreating.
Now the Marik are trickier. The Fontaine´s taskforce is said to be composed of "regiments of mercenaries" and the 1st, 7th and 8th Tamarind Regulars, plus the Camacho's Caballeros, and we know that at least all or significant parts of that units are in Illyria to the end of 3150. We also know that elements of the III Legio clashed (and damaged) with elements of the 7th Tamarind Regulars in Tormentine in (probably) September 3150 (TRO 3150 Testudo entry). So, while they conquered all the planets connecting Illyria with the FWL, i presume that those planets are garrisoned with parts of those "regiments of mercenaries". It would be a shame that those planets suffered attacks from, shall we say, the I or IV Legios? The thing is, Illyria have to be a hot coal to hold, as Fontaine planned for a quick operation. And add the political pressure that Fontaine is getting from the FWL Parliament, with the internal tariff hurting the duchy's economy, plus the political fallout inside the neo-FWL.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Minemech on 15 August 2018, 17:17:36
 Technically the Palatinate should be more defensible for the Free Worlds League than it could have ever been for the Marian Hegemony. Holding it helps secure Kendall from short range raids. Before taking the Palatinate, the Marians had secured the Lothian League. They no longer control that state, and will probably have lost considerable influence over it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 15 August 2018, 18:57:13
Technically the Palatinate should be more defensible for the Free Worlds League than it could have ever been for the Marian Hegemony. Holding it helps secure Kendall from short range raids. Before taking the Palatinate, the Marians had secured the Lothian League. They no longer control that state, and will probably have lost considerable influence over it.

 Yes, for the Free Worlds League. But right now this is Fontaine`s was, not the FWL. As i said, expell the invaders from worlds like Saint Nicolas, Huntington and/or Hazeldan, and the provision`s situation for the guys in Illyria looks more grim.

 Now the Lothians. They are a wild joker card. While they rebelled from Marian governance, they are still connected to them culturally, politically and economically. And in no place is said that Fontaine is trying to woo them. Remember that the Duke tough that this would be a short campaign.

 A final note: I know that most IC news report are propaganda for their faction, but welcoming population in Illyria? After almost one hundred years, following the Battletech logic™ Illyria would be "marianized" by this time, except for the usual minor resistance (see the Taurian examples, or more recent, the Phecda example).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Minemech on 15 August 2018, 19:37:11
Yes, for the Free Worlds League. But right now this is Fontaine`s was, not the FWL. As i said, expell the invaders from worlds like Saint Nicolas, Huntington and/or Hazeldan, and the provision`s situation for the guys in Illyria looks more grim.

 Now the Lothians. They are a wild joker card. While they rebelled from Marian governance, they are still connected to them culturally, politically and economically. And in no place is said that Fontaine is trying to woo them. Remember that the Duke tough that this would be a short campaign.

 A final note: I know that most IC news report are propaganda for their faction, but welcoming population in Illyria? After almost one hundred years, following the Battletech logic™ Illyria would be "marianized" by this time, except for the usual minor resistance (see the Taurian examples, or more recent, the Phecda example).
The Illyrian Palatinate had excellent relations with the Free Worlds League throughout its history. I would not be surprised if League states maintained strong ties with the population--that is they maintained strong ties, both directly, and through SAFE. I am more surprised that this move does not have greater support, as part of what made the League hard to defend was the powerful Marian presence. The move simply made too much sense.



 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 15 August 2018, 21:44:48
The Illyrian Palatinate had excellent relations with the Free Worlds League throughout its history. I would not be surprised if League states maintained strong ties with the population--that is they maintained strong ties, both directly, and through SAFE. I am more surprised that this move does not have greater support, as part of what made the League hard to defend was the powerful Marian presence. The move simply made too much sense.

Would not say "excellent relations". The Periphery 1ed says that it had "modest trade with the Free Worlds League". The Periphery 2ed goes a little more, saying that the Palatinate expanded his trade with the FWL during the 3040`s, but build stronger relation with the Lothian League, and during the first part of the 3050`s increased such trade, but that their other main trade partner were the Lothians. The funniest part is that the biggest injection of help they got was from the FedCom and the Draconis Combine to host a lot of Rasalhagian refugees.

I am sure that SAFE (be whatever one or the many SAFEs) had people in the former Palatinate worlds, and that they are surely connected to the few resistance groups (at least one in 3128 had 10 old mechs that got destroyed by the II Legio in Illyria), but the Palatinate got absorved into the Hegemony almost 90 years ago, and it is cannon that the Hegemony worked in integrating both the Illyrians and Lothians into it, heck, even influencing the independants arounf the Hegemony, and the Lothians after their revolution. Planet loyalty is a weird thing in Battletech, as it depends on the author, with planets resisting for decades, and other adapting quickly to their new masters.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Minemech on 16 August 2018, 09:19:49
 I think that cash influx was to keep themselves from having to host the refugees.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 August 2018, 10:10:49
I think that cash influx was to keep themselves from having to host the refugees.

Yeap, the Illyrians were getting a lot of refugees, and both the FC and DC send the funds to keep them IN the Palatinate. This also allowed Administrator Wick to get more money to beef up their military in fear of posible Marian or Circinian invasion. It allowed him to build fortifications and housings to the workers, both native and rasalhaguians. The Palatinate fell nontheless. And that was almost 80 years ago. Also, Illyria is a nice world (except for the tainted atmosphere), i can see the Marian ferring lots of settlers there.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Minemech on 16 August 2018, 10:26:05
 Periphery based roleplay games in the late 30th, early 31st century in that region of space are quite fun. You can end up in the oddest of places.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 August 2018, 10:43:43
Periphery based roleplay in the late 30th, early 31st century in that region of space are quite fun. You can end up in the oddest of places.

That is why i fricking LOVE the Periphery. Its the oddest, and funniest, place of all the Battletech setting. Also gave your imagination way more territory to expand than the Inner Sphere.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Minemech on 16 August 2018, 18:06:10
 The Successor States can be very fun, but you have to know what to filter out of the novels. When well played, periphery powers can have surprising relations with individual planets within Successor States, and about--performing well may land you jobs related to those worlds, or even under Comstar, for its purposes.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 04 September 2018, 17:41:40
What makes a modern 3150 Legio?

Like how many Cohorts to fill it out, they are suppose to be a combined arms unit. I know everybody has their own way of doing things, but what makes up atypical Legio? How many Infantry troopers to Mecha, Vehicle and Aerospace units in whole? What kind of transportation Jumper with what kind of Dropper would they use in this new era?

These things keep me warm at night!  >:D

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 04 September 2018, 18:50:41
If it were my choice, I’d adopt a sort of clan paradigm, with mechs and BA in the main Legio, while Vees and PBI would be relegated to the Auxilia Legio.  3 Cohors of mechs, 2 of BA for the main Legio, 3 Cohors of Vees, 2 of PBI for the Auxilia.  And as many ASF as I could beg, borrow, or steal.  But I doubt any conform to that paradigm in canon.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 05 September 2018, 09:26:22
It looks like the Marian ideal is a pure mech Legio, with vees, infantry, and whatnot in one or more Auxilia Legios. We still have zero information on how the Marians group their fighters.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 September 2018, 11:33:45
So . . . Arkansas Warrior, want the role of Marius in reforming the legions?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 05 September 2018, 14:12:25
We still have zero information on how the Marians group their fighters.

Units of 10, I believe they call it an Ala .2 fighters per Air Maniple, 5 Maniple to wing.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 05 September 2018, 15:04:31
Source? All I've ever been able to find is that they out their fighters in Alae, but nothing about numbers or organization.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 05 September 2018, 20:43:40
Source? All I've ever been able to find is that they out their fighters in Alae, but nothing about numbers or organization.

FASA 1692 The Periphery 2ed, page 60, 2nd paragraph, 2nd column.

Contubernium: 2 ASF
Air Maniple: 10 ASF
Squadron: 50 ASF

The thing is, this goes against what Welshman said on 10 February 2014: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,36976.msg862069.html#msg862069 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,36976.msg862069.html#msg862069)

Quote
Hello,

After a review of this, we wanted to provide an updated an fully fleshed out answer. This is also being moved to the Rules Forum for easy reference of others.


Contubernium(Squad): 1 Infantry Squad (10 Troopers), 1 BA Squad (5 BA Troopers), 1 'Mech, 1 Tank, 1 Aerospace
 
Century(Lance): 4-10 Infantry Squads, 5 BA Squads, 5 'Mechs, 5 Tanks (Usually 5 Contubernii, conventional infantry often different), 5 Aerospace
 
Maniple(Company): 8-20 Infantry Squads, 10 BA Squads, 10 'mechs, 10 Tanks (2 Centuries), 10 Aerospace
 
Cohort(Battalion): 24-60 Infantry Squads, 30 BA Squads, 30 'Mechs, 30 Tanks (3 Maniples), 30 Aerospace
 
Legion(Regiment): 72-300 Infantry Squads, 90-150 BA Squads, 90-150 'Mechs, 90-150 Tanks, 90-150 Aerospace (3-5 Cohorts)

Thank you,
Joel BC

And you still have the problem of what an "Alae" is. I would assume that is about a Cohort of ASF (30 ASF according to Welshman).

Edit: I forgot about the ASF squadron formation rules in Strategic Operations. The table in page 28 of that book put the Marian Squadron in 10 Fighters (to divide it in 5/5 or 6/4 for the squadron formation rules).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 05 September 2018, 23:14:02
I have no idea how I missed that for four years...pretty odd setup, especially the five fighters to a century bit. Even the Clans have enough sense to deploy their birds in wing pairs. I'm going to imagine that a Century breaks into two parts in combat, with the two least experienced pilots both acting as wingmen to the commander(and learning from him the whole time), with the two intermediate pilots forming a traditional wing pair.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Elmoth on 06 September 2018, 01:26:23
The organization names and their ranking are straight from the roman army. Curious that the Century is 5 contuberni and not 10. I guess that units of 10 mechs would have lookesd a little over the top :) But then a contubernium of 1 mech looks pretty solitary :P

Alae is how the cavalry was refered in the roman army.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 06 September 2018, 06:52:35
Game balance, I suspect. Battletech is optimized for lance-on-lance games. Five-mech Stars are still feasible, as are six-unit Level IIs, but ten on one side is getting bulky, and means that most players of that faction would be forced to use portions of their fighting unit, rarely a whole one.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Minemech on 06 September 2018, 08:33:12
Game balance, I suspect. Battletech is optimized for lance-on-lance games. Five-mech Stars are still feasible, as are six-unit Level IIs, but ten on one side is getting bulky, and means that most players of that faction would be forced to use portions of their fighting unit, rarely a whole one.
I find company to be optimal, but battalion games can get clunky. Part of it comes down to the players. Some players can move both smartly and decisively, while others take their time. I think it is healthy for newer players to play a few company games on the board, because they force the players to think and act decisively. This has the potential to improve their performance in lance games. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 06 September 2018, 11:54:10
The organization names and their ranking are straight from the roman army. Curious that the Century is 5 contuberni and not 10. I guess that units of 10 mechs would have lookesd a little over the top :) But then a contubernium of 1 mech looks pretty solitary :P

Alae is how the cavalry was refered in the roman army.

My own personal pet peeve is the Century and Maniple positions. I prefer Contubernium - Maniple - Century - Cohor - Legio.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 06 September 2018, 13:37:32
I have no idea how I missed that for four years...pretty odd setup, especially the five fighters to a century bit. Even the Clans have enough sense to deploy their birds in wing pairs. I'm going to imagine that a Century breaks into two parts in combat, with the two least experienced pilots both acting as wingmen to the commander(and learning from him the whole time), with the two intermediate pilots forming a traditional wing pair.

Except why wouldn't you not run a full Alae? You'd end up running a Cappy Triple and a standard Air Lance? Again,why? Take the Alae, and run it as a normal of 10. Save on the head-ache later on!

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 06 September 2018, 16:05:14
Because it's clearly two Centuries. Even if you get even pairs in a full Maniple, single-Century deployments will always be a thing in a nation as small as the Hegemony.

Also, how big are your tabletop games that ten fighters is practical? In my local group TW games are usually a lance or so per player, and Alpha Strike fights usually top out at a company per. I'm pushing it with my force for this weekend's AS game at twenty units, only because ten if those are a Century of BA plus their transports. Ten fighters on one side is for convention-sized games.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Elmoth on 06 September 2018, 16:17:00
Well, and contuberni were made of 8 soldiers, not 10, but hey.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 06 September 2018, 16:25:33
Mostly Company-ish of mixed units.

If I play clan it's usually a Binary with a Nova Star in it, sometimes we run a Point or two of Aero for funsies.

But if we have a campaign, we'd run more Battalion vs Regiment battles, where we get to hit and run against multiple Companies over a period of time.  Including Aero attacks and massed frontal assaults by fast hovers hitting the rear.

But generally, we play small...

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 06 September 2018, 16:34:41
In which case you need to plan to run fighters in groups of less than ten. And per that list, our options below that are one and five.

We may not like them, but they are what they are.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 06 September 2018, 16:44:38
I either use them in full Alae or run VTOL support in full Century of 5.

I have them or not, either way I have airsupport in one form or another.

To complicated to run otherwise.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 06 September 2018, 19:36:20
Problem is, we still don't know what an Alae is. Is it an Aero Maniple, Cohort, Legion?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 06 September 2018, 19:39:22
Problem is, we still don't know what an Alae is. Is it an Aero Maniple, Cohort, Legion?

I assume its a Century (20 ASF).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 06 September 2018, 19:50:05
Ugh...

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ala#English (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ala#English)

Alae is plural for Ala or wing. Meaning it's as close one can get to a 5 Air Maniple unit.

Code: [Select]
Non-BattleMech-Units
Air Maniple - 2 Aerospace Fighters
Wing - 5 Air Maniples
This structure was subsequently refined and clarified to:[4]

4: Catalyst Game Labs Ask The Writers/Rules Questions response, 11 Feb 2014
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,36976.msg862069.html#msg862069 (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,36976.msg862069.html#msg862069)

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 06 September 2018, 20:01:11
I assume its a Century (20 ASF).

We were just informed that a Century is five fighters.

I'm assuming that Alae are either 10-fighter Maniples or 30-fighter Cohorts, but until someone official clears it up, we just don't know. I'm going for the latter, but wouldn't be extremely surprised if it were the former. Air cover has always been a weakness of the Legions, and if we got rid of all our weaknesses, there'd be nothing interesting about us.

That's why I prefer to use intro tech stuff as much as possible, or primitives. I'll use standard or advanced every so often(mostly in non-Mech stuff), but by and large the more a force focuses on numbers or brute durability instead of technology, the more Marian it feels to me.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 06 September 2018, 21:16:31
We were just informed that a Century is five fighters.

I'm assuming that Alae are either 10-fighter Maniples or 30-fighter Cohorts, but until someone official clears it up, we just don't know. I'm going for the latter, but wouldn't be extremely surprised if it were the former. Air cover has always been a weakness of the Legions, and if we got rid of all our weaknesses, there'd be nothing interesting about us.

That's why I prefer to use intro tech stuff as much as possible, or primitives. I'll use standard or advanced every so often(mostly in non-Mech stuff), but by and large the more a force focuses on numbers or brute durability instead of technology, the more Marian it feels to me.

Mea culpa. I meant Cohort.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 07 September 2018, 13:56:49
Think of it this way:

A standard Mech Company uses 3 Lances, with the 3rd Lance an Air Lance. Meaning 2 ASFs are added. Now the MHAF uses 2 Centuries per Maniple and adds 2 ASFs but calls them Air Maniples.

I propose that the same is common with MHAF. Every Maniple has an Aero escort. What is missing is a Command Air Maiple and and a Auxilia Support Maniple, ie: a fourth using traditional vehicles and or Infantry.

Like every Cohort has a Command Air Maniple, 3 regular Air Maiple assigned to each Maniples of the Cohort and the 4th Air Maniple assigned to Auxilia Support. So in all total, 4 Maniples per Cohort.

But this is my understanding, where also talking about giant stompy robots here!

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Elmoth on 07 September 2018, 14:59:28
Roam cavalry did not use the same notation as infantry. I find it curious that they use Century with them and not Decuria, Turma, Ala (I think I am missing a rank or 2 there)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 07 September 2018, 15:06:57
The Marian Hegemony may draw heavily from Rome, but it isn't Rome. Things aren't going to be an exact comparison, even allowing for obvious differences such as the fact that unlike Rome's Legions, the Hegemony deploys giant robots.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 07 September 2018, 15:08:51
Their priests of Vulcan obviously weren’t praying hard enough, to have never been granted the secret of robot-crafting.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 September 2018, 09:03:04
The Marian Hegemony may draw heavily from Rome, but it isn't Rome. Things aren't going to be an exact comparison, even allowing for obvious differences such as the fact that unlike Rome's Legions, the Hegemony deploys giant robots.

Yeah . . . its more like a toga party that got out of hand and never ended.

TOGA! TOGA!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 September 2018, 11:37:02
Just announced the 1st Marik Protectors is coming out as the Spotlight On feature- which means since it will deal with their establishment it should have some Hegemony & Kendall info.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 08 September 2018, 12:07:41
Ya know something...

I wonder how much intro tech is still being used even now in 3150-ish.

I mean, we have RATs that are " most commonly used " per faction, but there is ALWAYS an exception or two. Would you use an ER over a standard, even if it costed you another five hundred BV? Also what about " dumber " tech, like for instance everybody plays with the Victor-9B, but what about the -9A or even the -9A1?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 September 2018, 12:22:09
Well . . . there is a place for some stuff not being cutting edge . . . look at the Hawkwolf- its fire support and so it has 3025 missile launchers or a improved version has MMLs . . . but if its role is to rain missiles directly or indirectly, does it really need ER Meds or does just plain Meds work?

I think we might see a lot of the Marian's stock of 3025 designs that they were using even up into the Jihad sporting the 'r' series refits- some of those IMO were overdue 3050 improvements.

But one thing to also keep in mind, IIRC some of the Hegemony fluff post-3100 was that the Hegemony's quartermaster corp has agents in battlezones and hiring hall worlds buying up scrap-level salvage to ship back home and rebuild.  Which should mean their techs are pretty good about putting stuff more advanced than 3025 back together.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 08 September 2018, 12:48:34


I think we might see a lot of the Marian's stock of 3025 designs that they were using even up into the Jihad sporting the 'r' series refits- some of those IMO were overdue 3050 improvements.

But one thing to also keep in mind, IIRC some of the Hegemony fluff post-3100 was that the Hegemony's quartermaster corp has agents in battlezones and hiring hall worlds buying up scrap-level salvage to ship back home and rebuild.  Which should mean their techs are pretty good about putting stuff more advanced than 3025 back together.

Check the Techwizards, LTD entry in HB:MPS (pag. 162). Those guys specialize in making mechs from salvage and junk.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 08 September 2018, 13:10:50
Interestingly, I find 3025 stuff to be pretty good counters to Protomechs. Most Protos are short-ranged enough that there's no advantage over intro tech guns, and the cheap(er) nature of older units means it's easier to counter their numerical advantage with numbers of your own, or enough size to easily tank hits from Proto-sized guns.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 08 September 2018, 14:31:16
A lot of Marian equipment already has that high-low mix going on, even within the same unit.  The CN9-H is probably the classic example, being built largely from primitive equipment but also including an LB10-X autocannon.  The JM6-H refit is another good example, taking (apparently) 3025 JM6 chassis and refitting them with DHS, ferro fibrous armor, and LBX ACs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 September 2018, 15:49:41
Yeah, I was specifically thinking of the CN9-H & -Ar
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 08 September 2018, 19:47:45
Problem is, we still don't know what an Alae is. Is it an Aero Maniple, Cohort, Legion?

Excellent question Weirdo, never made a difference in Ala Caelum Wing and Alae Alba

I always consider that the Alae Alba was a bigger formation than a Wing, maybe an Aero "Legion", with 3 Wings or more or accompanied by Assault Dropships and maybe some PWS.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 08 September 2018, 20:57:03
PWS? What Capital Kinder Eggs to the Marians get? ???

 Last I heard, the Marian Navy had even less fluff than the Marian Air Force.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 08 September 2018, 21:48:47
But one thing to also keep in mind, IIRC some of the Hegemony fluff post-3100 was that the Hegemony's quartermaster corp has agents in battlezones and hiring hall worlds buying up scrap-level salvage to ship back home and rebuild.  Which should mean their techs are pretty good about putting stuff more advanced than 3025 back together.
especially if it is something they already build some parts for, like the CN9-* Centurions.. their CN9-H primitive model isn't all that spectacular (still fairly solid though) but the chassis, Myomers, and other components ought to be cross compatible with most of the older models.

plus by the 3100's the Marians are building their own battle armor (the Ravager and Marauder suits), which ought to be a much trickier prospect than assembling more advanced mechs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 08 September 2018, 22:00:43
PWS? What Capital Kinder Eggs to the Marians get? ???

 Last I heard, the Marian Navy had even less fluff than the Marian Air Force.

FM: 3145 Periphery (General) aerospace table gave you the Mule PWS and Overlord A3.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Deadborder on 09 September 2018, 02:29:36
Even then I'd imagine that due to the logistics and simple sparsity of Dropships in the periphery, Marian PWS would be very rare. I suspect that the bulk of the ones they have would be the Mule-Q
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 19 October 2018, 23:51:01
Wouldn't they have access to SL-era Pocket Warship Mule?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 20 October 2018, 00:51:14
Who knows, it's a possibility, but in the lists are the MULE PWS and the Overlord A 3
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 November 2018, 11:41:18
Screw the PWS Mule . . . where are the DroST IIa gunships!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 31 May 2019, 10:37:49
Okay fellow space Roman's, what would be your plan for taking back lost territory?

I would sue for peace with the FWL with it hinging on trading control for captured systems. Next push MoC off of the two systems in the east
 Rebuild the Legions and begin making in roads with independent systems surrounding the Hegemony.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 31 May 2019, 10:58:56
Space Rome at this time is using more of a client state system . . . but yeah, back off with the League and perhaps snap up what is left of the Federation that was not taken?  And New St Andre needs some attention-  Space Romans vs Space Britons!

Btw, do they give out land to veterans?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 01 June 2019, 13:18:47
The Houses of the Inner sphere  used to do that in away. It would be a way to seed loyalty in new territories.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 03 June 2019, 16:12:44
Okay fellow space Roman's, what would be your plan for taking back lost territory?

I would sue for peace with the FWL with it hinging on trading control for captured systems.

 Actually, negotiations could be beneficial in this situation. While Duke Fontaine Marik is in a very strong position, with lots of troops holding Illyria and other planets, his political front is not so strong, with the Parliament more focused in reintegrating Regulus, and facing the Wolves and the doorstep, and the Andurians and the MoC/Crapellans (even if the later are focused in the FS/RoTS). I can see the Parliament and the new Captain-General giving Fontaine the finger and making a deal with the MH only if the concessions are big enough to quell Fontains complaints.

Next push MoC off of the two systems in the east

I don't think the Canopians plan to stay long term in both planets. Sure, they will do a lot of damage to the local infrastructure bu damaging industries and freeing the slaves, but they are far from their frontlines, and the MH can hinder their logistical trains in the "empty" zone between the realms. Also, the MoC seems more focused in bullying lone ex-FWL planets and helping their Andurian allies.

Rebuild the Legions and begin making in roads with independent systems surrounding the Hegemony.

Personally, i think the best action, aside of rebuilding those Legions, its to focus in diplomacy with the minor planets and with the Lothians. Right now the bigger fishes in the pond (the FWL and MoC) seems more focused in other fronts, so its better not to alarm them by gobbling smaller entities.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 June 2019, 17:03:06
Which is why I suggested New St Andrews . . . consolidate elsewhere, shore up the legions, and use it as a training world.  IIRC its behind the CF and thus pretty far away from other powers to even notice.  Arbiters, Wasps, Stingers, Scorpions and Vedettes?  Its a live fire training environment the Clans would love to play with sending sibkos in lights to play on the planet . . . and the Hegemony IMO is just behind the Clans in the 'risk taking' nature of the training programs.  The Nelson's Longbows are going to be a bit tougher with four Longbows and 30-40% upgraded (DHS on the Longbows?) as part of the mech company.  They also have/had a company of vehicles and their specially trained 13F teams.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 15 June 2019, 09:09:22
Does the Marian Hegemony give 50 acres (or whatever) of land to legionnaires after 20-30 years of service when they muster out to become reservists?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 15 June 2019, 17:02:31
Does the Marian Hegemony give 50 acres (or whatever) of land to legionnaires after 20-30 years of service when they muster out to become reservists?

Would say that it depends on the social status of the legionnaire. In the Hegemony, social status is determined by owning land. You have land? You are a Patrician (and an officer if you are in the Legions). You dont have land? You are a plebian.

So far,  i did not found any mention of any Caesar giving land to the legionnaires.....but, if you check the HB:MPS, it is mentioned that Julius opened the chance to buy land again (after beign closed by 50 years, making patricianship hereditary during that time) in the new Illyrian and Lothian territories. And its implied that more than one plebian took the chance to invest some money on land (there is the mention of a very rich plebian Privateer that became patrician after buying 2 square meters of land in the Addhara badlands.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 10 July 2019, 20:10:11
" All Legatus, Report! Sound off for the glory of the Hegemony! "

I, Legatus Pi, have been on the battlefronts stemming the purple inundations of the Regulus Principality. My trusty Cohort and I have suffered grievous and horrific wounds from hellish heavens, all in the name of Caesar! Oh Caesar, my Caesar shower us with glory and righteousness that undo to Caesar! Hail Caesar! * Chest thump *

What's your excuse?

Currently working on an AS aspect...

Running my Cohort as:

Alpha Maniple: Light Century ( 2 Whitworth-1 *50PV, 2 Panther-8Z *40PV and 1 Wyvern-5N * 27PV ) and Heavy Century ( Thug-10E *39PV, Archer-2S *36PV, Hunchback-4J *31PV, Thunderbolt-, ( not sure -5D or -5S ? ) Phoenix Hawk-1K *29PV

Beta Maniple: Medium Century 2 Lancelot-25-03 *72PV and 3 Talos-1B *87PV ) and another Medium Century ( 3 Tiger Medium Tank T-12 *48PV, 2 Bulldog (LRM) *42PV )

Delta Maniple: Light Century ( Bulldog (LRM) *21PV, 4 Chi-Ha CCV *12PV ) and a Light Century ( Infantry- Ceremonial Guard Caesar's Royal Guard, Marian Hegemony *6PV  ( 100 troopers ).

VOTE: T-Bolt -5D or -5S

Thanks,
Legatus Pi  ;)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Ruger on 10 July 2019, 21:07:07
I would go Thunderbolt-5D as your Hunchback is a 4J model. For the final ‘Mech, maybe something more mobile to fill in holes where needed? Perhaps a salvaged Phoenix to be a bit untraditional? Or a SHD-2H Shadow Hawk that can provide both fire-support and close-in firepower.

As to the ‘Mechs to go with the Lancelot’s, I’d be very tempted by something else unusual: a trio of salvaged Talos medium BattleMechs.

Ruger
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 10 July 2019, 21:28:17
Remind me what the 5D has again... that 5S has another PPC...

Nice idea on the triple Talos-1B!

Now how does it look? Or should I run a second Thud, just opposite?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Ruger on 11 July 2019, 03:43:10
Remind me what the 5D has again... that 5S has another PPC...

Nice idea on the triple Talos-1B!

Now how does it look? Or should I run a second Thud, just opposite?

TT

The 5D is the new one with an AC/20.

And actually, I was thinking a salvaged or heirloom Phoenix, not Phoenix Hawk.

Ruger
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 12 July 2019, 18:50:42
Thunderbolt 5S but I prefer troopers over specialized inits.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 18 July 2019, 21:57:04
The Thud-5D has 3/3/1 includes AC2/2/-, IF1. PV35

The Thud-5S has 3/3/1 includes IF1. PV36

So I think I'll be going with 5D.

Alpha Maniple: Light Century ( 2 Whitworth-1 *50PV, 2 Panther-8Z *40PV and 1 Wyvern-5N * 27PV ) and Heavy Century ( Thug-10E *39PV, Archer-2S *36PV, Hunchback-4J *31PV, Thunderbolt-5D *35PV, Phoenix Hawk-1K *29PV )

Beta Maniple: Medium Century ( 2 Lancelot-25-03 *72PV and 3 Talos-1B *87PV ) and another Medium Century ( 3 Tiger Medium Tank T-12 *48PV, 2 Bulldog (LRM) *42PV )

Delta Maniple: Light Century ( Bulldog (LRM) *21PV, 4 Chi-Ha CCV *12PV ) and a Light Century ( Infantry- Ceremonial Guard Caesar's Royal Guard, Marian Hegemony *6PV  ( 100 troopers ).

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 10 September 2019, 13:44:08
Does the Marian Hegemony give 50 acres (or whatever) of land to legionnaires after 20-30 years of service when they muster out to become reservists?
I don’t think they ever did so as explicitly as Rome did, but in the early Marian efforts to colonize new worlds, it certainly seems logical to do so.  Setting plebeian veterans up with land on new world would quickly give you a cadre of loyal and capable social elites on the new colony that made sure no one got any funny ideas.  I suspect existing patricians would still want to send a few of their own along to be the real bigwigs, but there’d certainly be room for some veterans to make the jump up.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 September 2019, 13:57:16
I also want to say it was a revolutionary idea during Roman times that was part of the reason they kept their conquered lands.  It provides a ready source of militia/reserve trained forces and helps build a civic mindset for the next generation.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 13 September 2019, 12:58:41
I also want to say it was a revolutionary idea during Roman times that was part of the reason they kept their conquered lands.  It provides a ready source of militia/reserve trained forces and helps build a civic mindset for the next generation.
also one of the reasons that when they stopped doing that in the 3rd century, the roman army's size and quality fell immensely, forcing them to resort to things like non-roman mercenaries and forcing the sons of soldiers to become soldiers.

though the downside of "50 acres and a mule" as a reward for service is that you always have a high demand for new land.. which led Rome to keep fighting wars of expansion and conquest. for the Marians a push for colonization would probably work, but that would draw a lot of their economy into supporting such ventures, which unlike with Rome would draw resources away from the military.

remind me, do the marians maintain 'auxilia' units of non-marian citizens serving for a chance to get Marian citizenship when they muster out? (historically that is how Rome filled its auxilia.. their non-italic allies and subjects would be offered full roman citizenship if they survived 25 years of service. since citizen status was inherited, it was a way for the empire's 2nd class populace to social climb.)

historically Rome used its Auxilia as support for the legions as well as garrison duty.. if the marians adopted a similar policy i could see them filling auxilia units with cheaper armor and conventional infantry. i could also see them doing lie kthe romans did, and ensuring that no auxilia unit serves in the same place its troops were recruited from. (the romans did it to ensure loyalty, to ensure that if an uprising or rebellion occured, the garrison would be harder to suborn. could see the Marian's adopting a similar principle.)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 September 2019, 14:20:05
Well, to be fair, with a smaller battle a Marian force could get more land (aka a planet) than a legion would end up with after winning a war.

TBH, I really wish some of this would be explored a bit more . . . acting as and using some of the systems from the Republic & early Empire periods would have helped establish the Hegemony early on.  The Romans had some excellent sociological 'technology' that put them ahead of their competitors.

More 'tech' the Marians could rip off

nature of citizenship-  as glitterboy mentioned, the ability to earn citizenship through military service gives it perhaps more value than places you do not.  The CapCon to me never had it very well spelled out how you could be a Citizen- interestingly the Republic adopted that rather than a FS/FWL/LC model but made it more concrete than the Cappies.  It works pretty well as part of diplomatic moves with the client state foreign policy

legion vs auxillia-  the use of citizen units & wannabe citizen units become rather useful for how society and government is arranged in the MH.  Again, it makes citizenship valuable and if only citizens can hold offices builds that value while encouraging military service by the ambitious.  The ambitious are safely inside and part of the establishment rather than becoming anti-establishment nodes.  Auxillia also help weaken client states and neighboring countries since it will draw off their ambitious individuals while draining their eligible military manpower.

client states-  subservient allies, sources of troops & future citizens who grow your own planets & economy.  A exercise in soft power because of your existing hard power.  With properly executed foreign policy you can eventually absorb the states peacefully.

legionnaire veterans-  colonists and a ready reserve of trained military power that settle into 'local' units, they help maintain the dominate culture as well as prepare the next generation of military manpower.

Failure to place the Illyrian legion somewhere else- or use them up to be cynical- is what allowed that conquest to be wasted.  Giving them mechs also helped create that problem . . . if they had only been shuffled around nearby, being limited to ICE tracks and infantry would keep the combat power from contesting a mech force asserting control.

But with how little we get on the MH, it really does not get into any sort of details to see how Roman they actually ended up.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 13 September 2019, 19:02:42
Failure to place the Illyrian legion somewhere else- or use them up to be cynical- is what allowed that conquest to be wasted.  Giving them mechs also helped create that problem . . . if they had only been shuffled around nearby, being limited to ICE tracks and infantry would keep the combat power from contesting a mech force asserting control.

Dont you mean "Lothian" Legion?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 September 2019, 19:34:12
As Mekorig says there were Auxiliary Units and a Legio mostly Lotharian, not Illyrian, an estimate that the Ilyrians integrated in the MHAF are distributed in the different Legions and Auxilia

But as we always have little or no information of any kind because of the limited work given to the faction, except recently and to destroy it almost totally in a mad offensive, when until the previous book the Marian forces were entrenched and defensive.

As for the idea of nationality in exchange for serving in the MHAF, Long Term Mercs or long-term privateers bands in the Marian Hegemony, it is something that had already occurred to me and I took it in the Chronicle of A MH-centered Time of War that I have been running for almost two years
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 25 December 2019, 11:47:33
Happy Saturnalia for all loyal Marian Hegemony Citizens and independent peripherals in general
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 25 December 2019, 22:06:26
Happy Saturnalia!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 09 March 2020, 08:26:42
Friends, Marians, Countrymen, lend me your beers!

No, really. This week has been a hell of a decade.

Next week's game at my flgs is going to be a large Solaris Battle Royale, with each player bringing a single mech up to 2,000 BV, pilot included. Of course, with the game landing on the Ides of March, I must do my duty and ensure the Hegemony's flag is properly represented in battle.

Any suggestions? My current thought is an Archer-6W, with a 3/3 pilot, but I'm open to any other ideas.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 09 March 2020, 11:09:30
My initial reaction is Marauder II 4H . . . but it STARTS at 2180 so . . .

The next thought is the Centurion 9H . . . but to reach 2k BV you need a 0/1 pilot at 1959 . . . can you do enough damage with a LB-10X and RL10s that hit every time?

Then we get the proper choice . . . the Caesar!  So when/if you get knocked out you can turn to the player and say 'Eu tu Player?'  Either the 3S or 4S- 3S @ 4/5 is 1909 (LFE, HPPC, GR & ECM) or the 4S (HGR, LFE & Pulse) @ 3/5 w/2087 (if you be over a bit) or @ 4/4 1913.  Going old -3R at 3/5 gets you 1894 or (if over a bit) 3/4 @ 2083.

(http://masterunitlist.info/Image/RenderImage?width=300&height=400&file=https%3A%2F%2Fs3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com%2Fmul-images%2FBattleMechs%2F3050%2FCaesar.jpg)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 09 March 2020, 17:03:30
The Caesar does seem to be the appropriate choice.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 09 March 2020, 17:12:10
Tempting, though the fact that there Hegemony didn't have access to it is a strike against it...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 09 March 2020, 17:58:46
Hmmm...a Marian Cyclops with a 3/4 pilot is within the 50-point leeway we were given...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 09 March 2020, 21:21:10
Post Jihad they were buying anything they could get their hands on and refitting it.  Which does make it unlikely they could buy a salvage grade HGR carrier . . . but the -3R with thin skin & XL?  Definitely do-able to find it as salvage.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 09 March 2020, 22:15:36
I'm just going by the MUL.

I'm liking the Cyclops idea. Been meaning to paint mine up, so here's some motivation. Gonna call it Hadrian's Wallop. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 10 March 2020, 02:18:13
Easy to get a transverse crest onto a Cyclops ...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 10 March 2020, 09:27:09
Damn, I wish I'd thought of that before I started painting this thing!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 10 March 2020, 10:55:50
The MAD-9S seems like it’d be right up your alley: ECM, BAP, Flamer.  I suspect you could get up to all sorts of shenanigans.  Plus 2 ERPPCs and LBX10 main battery and a couple of ERMLs as backup.  1786 BV standard.


The WHM-8D is a solid, reliable design.  1744 BV.


The Royal Marauder (MAD-2R) is only 1630 BV.


All of those are straight off the MUL for the latest era.  I don’t BV balance often enough to remember the pilot multipliers, sorry.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 March 2020, 11:08:44
All of those are straight off the MUL for the latest era.  I don’t BV balance often enough to remember the pilot multipliers, sorry.

If you are looking at the MUL, just click the specific mech and it throws up the table.

Weirdo, will you at least name the mechwarrior for a Roman?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 10 March 2020, 11:22:27
I'm thinking Roman first name, generic family name. Very old patrician family, dating from the founding of the Hegemony, which is why they're influential enough to resist any calls to 'Romanize' their name. The current scion has the tactical acumen of a rhino, which is how the family mech got all the command gear blown out of it, necessitating a conversion to the -11-H. The pilot is happy with this configuration, as well as their current assignment as an enforcer within VI Legio.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 March 2020, 12:11:26
Lol, I wonder if you would pick a Caesar or famous Roman and just start spouting Latin and Roman quotes . . . maybe make a fiddle joke if you manage to start someone burning.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 10 March 2020, 14:00:35
Gaius Marius Nguyen.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 March 2020, 14:16:28
Licinius Crassus Romanov?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 14 March 2020, 21:26:55
Ended up going with Septima Tasia Vasilyev. Now all she has to do is survive tomorrow's game...

Out of curiosity, what rocket-equipped vees to we have access to? I know the Hegemony didn't get the rocket Lightning(to my eternal dismay), for example.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 14 March 2020, 23:22:34
Gladiator II has RLs IIRC . . .
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Deadborder on 16 March 2020, 04:02:08
While not supported by MUL, I love using the Rocket variant of the Galleon as a Marian (or general Periphery) vehicle.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 16 March 2020, 04:40:59
So how did the game go?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 16 March 2020, 06:05:18
Lost an arm early on, and a leg shortly after tangling with a Grand Titan. Got back up, blew the Titan's head off, and proceeded to outlast most other opponents through determination and sheer weight of metal. Came in second overall, only going down when a Nightsky DFAed the last of my CT into wreckage.

A thing about the Cyclops-11-H: If you know the game (or your mech) isn't likely to actually last a very long time, loading one of the ammo bins with precision rounds is a fun sneaky trick. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 16 March 2020, 19:14:17
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 28 March 2020, 14:22:11
So I'm trying to fill out my Auxilia minis, and have run into a quandary.

I've got a Century in my VI Legio forces with a Von Luckner, two Light SRM Carriers, and a Hetzer, needing one more vee. Nothing subtle, a close-range bruising formation.

I've got another Century for IV Legio, a light fire support group of two Hunters and three Strikers.

I want to put a Ranger in here somewhere. So you think I should just put it in the close assault unit as a flanker/squishy squisher, or should I transfer a Striker over to give them some ranged support and put the Ranger in the light unit as an escort?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 28 March 2020, 19:03:39
Just for the sake of it, would you consider moving things around?

Three strikers & two light SRMs gives similar movement profiles, all wheeled. Sure, the IF capacity drops, but anyone coming around the hill they're hiding behind will be surprised.

Then the Von Luckner, Hetzer, and the two Hunters, plus
- DA era, can't go past the Testudo.
- a Schrek or Demolisher always appeal.

I'd probably pick the Schreck for the extra range, and no-one can complain it's not a hard hitter. I'd have the two assaults forward, with the Hunters & Hetzer keeping their flanks clear.

Shame you can't easily get the Von Luckner K100 on a Marian list ... with the right DA piece, it's an easy mod. ;)

W.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 28 March 2020, 19:26:42
Did the Marians come up with the Shrek with FF armor?  Not sure why it took decades for someone to do that, but I seem to recall they were the ones that were attributed with its mainstream application.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 29 March 2020, 11:51:55
The Hunters are already painted, they're the only ones hard-locked for the light Century.

And don't forget, the whole point of this is to fit a Ranger into one of these formations.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 29 March 2020, 15:46:36
I'd move a Striker, and put the Ranger in the other Century as a guard unit.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 01 April 2020, 22:40:22
I'd move a Striker, and put the Ranger in the other Century as a guard unit.


I think I'm going to go with this approach.

On another note...I swear it's been answered somewhere in this forum, but for the life of me I cannot find it now. Can anybody find an official source describing how the Hegemony groups their fighters?

(Note: official only, please. Fan conjecture is worse than useless.)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 02 April 2020, 03:21:59
I think I'm going to go with this approach.

On another note...I swear it's been answered somewhere in this forum, but for the life of me I cannot find it now. Can anybody find an official source describing how the Hegemony groups their fighters?

(Note: official only, please. Fan conjecture is worse than useless.)

They do 2 per flight, 5 flights to a squadron

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Marian_Hegemony_Armed_Forces (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Marian_Hegemony_Armed_Forces)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 02 April 2020, 06:44:53
Thanks! That page actually linked to the official source I needed, which says 5 to a Century. (It's the section right below the one you quoted.)

Guess my VI Legio fighter squadron just needs one more bird for now, with another 5 when I want to boost it to a Maniple. Doubt I'll try for a full wing.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 23 April 2020, 14:28:52
Does anyone know of a good paint scheme for the Imps? I've got a couple Kage squads with only basic paint jobs on them right now, and the only thing I have in mind is either generic black, or digging through novels to try and find a scheme used by DEST (for false-flag purposes).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 23 April 2020, 14:37:12
Imps? Rare assault 'Mechs, short for Imperials, or Imperio? Other?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 April 2020, 14:44:07
Yeah, I was confused too b/c he was throwing around DEST false flag . . .
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 23 April 2020, 14:47:57
I third the motion.  All in favor say Aye.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 23 April 2020, 14:52:52
Sorry. The Imps are notable warriors in TRO 3058 for the Kage, a couple squads of specops troops in the Ordo Vigilis. Last seen hunting for the then-missing Franz Donner and Black Warriors. Given what happened to Donner, there's no telling what happened to the Imps. I like to think they eventually came home, maybe short a few members, but with some VERY interesting AARs, for those with the clearance to get the unredacted versions.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 April 2020, 15:54:01
Hm, Kage BA would be a really small canvas to make some Dante-esque imp . . . but painting the partial wings as imp wings . . .
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 08 July 2020, 15:19:36
3027 era Legio question : I want to move a Maniple of Infantry with support on the ground. What do you consider?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 08 July 2020, 15:21:25
What do you mean by 'with support' and what kind of troops?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 08 July 2020, 15:41:29
Types are most foot, some motor with a few jump thrown in.

And as for support, I want to be able to defend deployment area  and provide called strikes if need be, such as LRM and direct fire. Most of my arty will be done via AC5  Field Guns.

I've used Goblin and Bulldog deployments before...

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 08 July 2020, 17:15:07
Can you give us a detailed breakdown? I'm still not clear on what you're asking our transport suggestions to carry.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 08 July 2020, 17:27:04
Now is it you want a full maniple of infantry, plus support, or a maniple of infantry with support?

Let's go the former, because it's more interesting. A Century of foot infantry is 4-10 10-man squads, so let's go big - 10 squads. You need two Heavy APCs to carry this lot, pick whichever motive you're happiest with (but I'd suggest tracked). I'd make them organic transport, not counted to the Century size. Then for the second Century go wild with 5 units - say two mechanised infantry platoon (biker squads! Gotta love neo-Roman infantry on Lawmasters!), a hover infantry platoon, and two AC-5 field gun platoons - effectively self-transporting.

Then whack on a support Century. Bulldogs if you're feeling lavish, otherwise Scorpions, as your 'main battle tanks'. Two Hunters for fire support, or mebbe Strikers. And a Thumper - it's on the MUL for the period - as artillery/AAA.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Elmoth on 09 July 2020, 00:50:29
In 3027 I would not take hunters: fusion engines. The Marians were not that big at the time. I would take Strikers instead, or LRM carriers. Both are basically 20 century tech, so they should be able to be made locally.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 09 July 2020, 02:16:16
Good point!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 09 July 2020, 10:07:33
You think Weapon Carriers are a good thing? I got the old FASA Reinforcements 5: Vehicles.

Or should I run the AC version of the LBX Carrier?

Was looking to improve my Legio with more, flesh.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 09 July 2020, 10:36:37
3027 era Legio question : I want to move a Maniple of Infantry with support on the ground. What do you consider?

TT

Sorry if i sound like a dork, but i think that by 3027 the MHAF organized along the IS lines. The whole Century-Maniple-Cohor came with Sean between 3048-52. At least acording to The Periphery - 1692, page 56.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: worktroll on 09 July 2020, 23:53:04
Damn! I know when the Comstar Guards And Militia went mad for the number six, but missed this! My bad. But still fun.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 16 November 2020, 14:34:52
Are the Black Warriors still a thing in 3150-ish? Or are they more Blakey?

Just wondering.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 16 November 2020, 14:53:03
I’m pretty sure they died with Circinus.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 16 November 2020, 16:01:25
I'm fairly certain they died well before Circinus did...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 16 November 2020, 19:54:26
They tried to defect to the anti-Blakist side but pretty much got wiped out by the Manei Domini.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 16 November 2020, 19:57:45
Ah, right.  I forgot.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: pat_hdx on 17 November 2020, 22:45:52
It is in one of the late Jihad Sourcebooks (I think). Specifically, Precentor Avitue (one of the better BT Villains in my opinion) tracked down the Black Warrior Jump Ship/Dropship(s), boarded them with her cybernetic clown posse and killed them all, leaving the Drophip(s) FLOATING IN SPACE as a warning (blatant adventure hook ;) ).

BUT (can't track it down right now) it is noted that some Black Warriors who had been sent on different tracks as diversions survived (more blatant adventure hook-ism :D )...and the equipment of their dead comrades is there to be salvaged.

It is also heavily implied that Fritz Donner was an Eridani Light Horse veteran, and he left instructions to the Black Warriors for contacting "The Horsemen" for help (or something like that). We know from Splinter #1 that the Eridani Light Horse are a shadow of their former selves, but are still very much operating, and Eridani Light Horse descendant can be found in Imperio Space.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 17 November 2020, 22:58:56
We know from Splinter #1 that the Eridani Light Horse are a shadow of their former selves, but are still very much operating, and . . .

(https://oi358.photobucket.com/albums/oo27/STC_24/StarTrekTheOriginalSeriesHesDeadJim.gif)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: pat_hdx on 18 November 2020, 02:43:08
Ok, the fate of the Black Warriors is in Starterbook: Wolf and Blake , pg 34.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Elmoth on 18 November 2020, 03:35:10
It is in one of the late Jihad Sourcebooks (I think). Specifically, Precentor Avitue (one of the better BT Villains in my opinion) tracked down the Black Warrior Jump Ship/Dropship(s), boarded them with her cybernetic clown posse and killed them all, leaving the Drophip(s) FLOATING IN SPACE as a warning (blatant adventure hook ;) ).

BUT (can't track it down right now) it is noted that some Black Warriors who had been sent on different tracks as diversions survived (more blatant adventure hook-ism :D )...and the equipment of their dead comrades is there to be salvaged.

It is also heavily implied that Fritz Donner was an Eridani Light Horse veteran, and he left instructions to the Black Warriors for contacting "The Horsemen" for help (or something like that). We know from Splinter #1 that the Eridani Light Horse are a shadow of their former selves, but are still very much operating, and Eridani Light Horse descendant can be found in Imperio Space.

Ther eis cwertainly a whole intro adventure for a RPG here.

- Contracted by a small mercenary outfit (black warrior survivors). They need muscle to go and check around. PCs do not need to hacve mech of their own, sothey can be infantry or dispssessed or whatever, since anything goes for a space adventure.

- They check a pair of systems with nothing to be seen.

- The third system they hit has a derelict jumpship with the sail half retracted and 2-3 dropshoips floating nearby. The dropships show signs of entry damage. The jumpship does not.

- Insert gore aplenty inside the dropships and the jumpshipos. Inside the cargo bay of the jjumpships there are even signs of mechs having been used to fight! There are scorch marks of the targets of the mechs in the walls and floor, but no cadavers of the attackers. Except in the computer registries. Insert willpower rolls or equivalent here or feel really sick for a long time. Some scenes were performed in front of the security cameras on purpose, and they are not pretty. The registers can have been rigged so you can't fast forward the scene but need to watch it full, including the PA at full volume.

- And obviously the jumpship or dropship contains hibernated manei domini for some trigger happy scenes. Or maybe *A* manei domini if you want an Alien-like adventure. He starts picking up the acompanying black warriors. 

- The black warriors will not want the PC form spreading that they survived, so after clearing the area they turn on the PC. The PC have to fight it out but they are about to be overwhelmed if ythey stay. Still, there is one dropship (with mechs) attached to the jumpship... and the jumpship is loaded for a jump with a precalculated formula already in. Will you push the jump button to an unknown destination (and likely without having a navigator in the group)?



I might need to play that out....
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Metallgewitter on 18 November 2020, 06:08:48
There is an opening story in the Jihad book for the year 3073. in the story Appollyon is suppresing a rebel cell on gibson and after that he visits an underground prison where he keeps Donner. He thinks to himself how admirable Donner is for holding out so long while his XO Michael Cirion broke quickly. So the Warriors should be dead by now. Just as dead as the Grey Death Legion.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Elmoth on 18 November 2020, 07:05:36
As a unit? Sure. But they were BIG. More than a regiment iirc. Some Lance's are likely to have escaped and re-branded themselves. Happens all the time when the ship is sinking.

Xavi
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 18 November 2020, 09:55:26
BUT (can't track it down right now) it is noted that some Black Warriors who had been sent on different tracks as diversions survived (more blatant adventure hook-ism :D )...and the equipment of their dead comrades is there to be salvaged.

It is also heavily implied that Fritz Donner was an Eridani Light Horse veteran, and he left instructions to the Black Warriors for contacting "The Horsemen" for help (or something like that). We know from Splinter #1 that the Eridani Light Horse are a shadow of their former selves, but are still very much operating, and Eridani Light Horse descendant can be found in Imperio Space.

There are bound to be BW survivors, yes. They are expert raiders who hit and run and survive. Donner admitted he was former ELH in his last orders to his XO.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: pat_hdx on 18 November 2020, 18:37:09
There is an opening story in the Jihad book for the year 3073. in the story Appollyon is suppresing a rebel cell on gibson and after that he visits an underground prison where he keeps Donner. He thinks to himself how admirable Donner is for holding out so long while his XO Michael Cirion broke quickly. So the Warriors should be dead by now. Just as dead as the Grey Death Legion.

I get what you are saying, but it is spelled out in Wolf and Blake that at least two small detachments survived.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: fallen on 22 November 2020, 09:12:40
I think that “King” Hopper Morrison of the Morrison’s Extractors was a former Black Warrior.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 22 November 2020, 10:05:09
Yes. He went rogue after his company uncovered a lostech cache.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: fallen on 22 November 2020, 18:21:55
Yes. He went rogue after his company uncovered a lostech cache.

I thought so.  I don't know how much of the Extractor's are left, or even if Hopper Morrison survived the Jihad or the beating they took from Able's Aces.  However, a surviving Morrison could potentially recruit any remaining Black Warriors after the Jihad to revitalize the Extractors.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 22 November 2020, 18:27:39
Are the Black Warriors still a thing in 3150-ish? Or are they more Blakey?

Just wondering.

TT

Seems the answer is so-so... some survive but as a whole, gone.

Well thanks.!

Not happy, but at least I can get something done on this unit.

Should I roll under pirate or late Jihad MH?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: pat_hdx on 22 November 2020, 19:06:03
By 3150 they could have rebuilt, particularly if they recovered their drifting Tramp and Drophips. So at least some of their mech should be early Jihad with a sprinkle of Blakist equipment the WOB gave Little Bob.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 22 November 2020, 20:47:02
I thought so.  I don't know how much of the Extractor's are left, or even if Hopper Morrison survived the Jihad or the beating they took from Able's Aces.  However, a surviving Morrison could potentially recruit any remaining Black Warriors after the Jihad to revitalize the Extractors.

Morrison and the Black Warriors had a definitive break. He or his faction survived the Jihad into 3130 and even expanded their country into the Rim Territories.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Metallgewitter on 23 November 2020, 02:01:14
While we are at it: maybe some of them are now living in the remnants of the Circinus Federation. I mean the Regulans didn't nuke every planet into oblivion right? From the FM 3085 there was a mention that the Hegemony was dealing with increased pirate raids which came from the former Federation
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 23 November 2020, 02:21:33
You could also have some survivors find their way into the Mortis Cohort . . .
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 24 December 2020, 18:37:18
Happy Saturnalia for all Marian Citizen and Friends!!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 24 December 2020, 21:26:19
Happy Saturnalia to my fellow Marians! :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 25 December 2020, 18:48:20
Happy Saturnalia to all!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 01 February 2021, 10:55:45
Ave Caesar!

How do we Marians fare? Any mention in Hour of The Wolf?

Since Alaric is welcoming any and all allies while he's consolidating after liberating Terra, I'm sure the Caesar will be a worthy ally to keep the neoFWL in check. It is logical and should also give the Nova Cats some breathing room as they subjugate the illegitimate Marik.

Hopefully we don't become a walkover for overpowered Canopus nor Tamarind. The veteran Legios wonder how they could humiliatingly lose to rabble from a duchy.

It's high time we get featured in the Recog Guides too since the Taurians got a mention and Randis got the HawkWolf.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 01 February 2021, 12:40:05
I would certainly love to see something.  I think they would deserve their own design by this point.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 01 February 2021, 13:01:29
Hegemony has long deserved to appear in some mech at least with mention of pilots, but nothing even the non-existent members of the Aurigan coalition or the pirates of the Rim Territories have had a mention, of Randis I think that three mentions apart from his clear mech

The Hegemony nothing at all, except clowning in Shattered Fortress
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 01 February 2021, 13:17:13
Yeap, its funny, there is a very nice little narrative going on Randis based on the snippets from the RecGuides, basically i presume is something about the Black marauder, and the Ravens attacking Tortuga. But yes, its strange that my small (but favourite) faccion get more mentions than the Hegemony in the RecGuides.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 01 February 2021, 13:47:56
The Centurion has not made it into the RecGuides yet . . . it makes it in, bet we get a CN9-H reference.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 01 February 2021, 14:12:15
I highly doubt it Colt Ward, there might have been some mention in the Locust or Commando two mechs that we know the Hegemony builds and there was nothing, maybe they made another Retcon and we never make it
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 01 February 2021, 14:49:55
I highly doubt it Colt Ward, there might have been some mention in the Locust or Commando two mechs that we know the Hegemony builds and there was nothing, maybe they made another Retcon and we never make it

You might make one, but its not the same sort of thing.  The Cent 9H is a very distinctive unit though I will grant it might not make the RS in a RecGuide b/c afaik Prim tech is not in BMM.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 01 February 2021, 21:21:07
Excuse me what? The Hegemony is still stuck with a single primitive line and the RL Locust when the:

a) Taurians with a shattered industrial base could build XPL Brahmas, the various 3085 Phoenix Mechs and the Angel ECM Cadaver by the Dark Age?
b) Randis with a single planet can build an assault Mech with MMLs?
c) New St. Andrews also with a single planet can mass-produce primitive Arbiters by the bucketload before 3075 for themselves and every other customer? (With this comparison, it is illogical that we can't even permanently replace the lost Legio V.
d) Fronc Reaches which lost Detroit and with a smaller resource base could build standard technology Clints, Hunchbacks, Riflemen, Vedettes and Hetzers?

Aside from the Marauder, Ravager BAs and Testudo, the Dark Age Hegemony's industry is not elaborated upon when tiny powers like the aforementioned ones get detailed descriptions ::)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 01 February 2021, 21:25:28
Hegemony has long deserved to appear in some mech at least with mention of pilots, but nothing even the non-existent members of the Aurigan coalition or the pirates of the Rim Territories have had a mention, of Randis I think that three mentions apart from his clear mech

The Hegemony nothing at all, except clowning in Shattered Fortress

Truly, the humiliation of veteran Legions being made to serve as designated losers to the neoFWL in Shattered Fortress is disgusting. There are ever more creative excuses for the Hegemony to "fail" to conquer Kendall.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 02 February 2021, 00:56:57
You are forgetting they are still making the Centurion 9Hs (and 9Ar?), Gladius II, and they really should have a refurb shop second to none- they were buying up scrap and putting it back together.

My point is the Commando and Locust were nothing too different.  The Centurion 9H is enough different to get a notable pilot.

Unfortunately Kendall is out of reach . . . MAYBE the Hegemony could have fought a proto-state to a stalemate.  But against the whole League when they have a truce with the Wolves and Regulus is dealt with?  Its the only hot hostile border.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Metallgewitter on 02 February 2021, 05:34:13
When it comes to production: doesn't the Hegemony produce the Shilone aerospace fighter? At least that was fromth Masters and Minions sourcebook. Hadrain Armamanets aquirred the specs to produce this fighter because the Hegemony was looking to strengthen it's air forces.

But it's really interesting that the Hegemony hasn't produced it's own Mech design yet. Sure we have Battle armor which also seems to be in high demand on the open market because it's cheap and reliable but nothing else except SW era Mechs. And refits for the Goliath and Marauder 2 (Project Phoenix 3085 / 3067 respectively). Maybe the Marians have gone soft.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Geont on 02 February 2021, 06:26:26
It could explain why Marians are such predicament due to retaliation attack from Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey (not whole FWL). To attack Magistracy at the same time as FWL wasn't smart move either. For such a small realm, you don't just start a war on two fronts.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 02 February 2021, 06:28:37
You are forgetting they are still making the Centurion 9Hs (and 9Ar?), Gladius II, and they really should have a refurb shop second to none- they were buying up scrap and putting it back together.

My point is the Commando and Locust were nothing too different.  The Centurion 9H is enough different to get a notable pilot.

Unfortunately Kendall is out of reach . . . MAYBE the Hegemony could have fought a proto-state to a stalemate.  But against the whole League when they have a truce with the Wolves and Regulus is dealt with?  Its the only hot hostile border.

I am not forgetting them. But those are pre-3085 stuff. There has been very little post-3085 with regards to Mechs.

Kendall is out of reach because of an invisible plot barrier that prevents the Legions from conquering it. It should've been Marian well before 3100.

Maybe the Marians have gone soft.

This. Not the Marians going soft, but they have no chance to shine when Canopus and the neoFWL are the designated winners in that area.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 02 February 2021, 06:29:53
It could explain why Marians are such predicament due to retaliation attack from Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey (not whole FWL). To attack Magistracy at the same time as FWL wasn't smart move either. For such a small realm, you don't just start a war on two fronts.

They do this because they were written to do this.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jimdigris on 02 February 2021, 06:56:53
Excuse me what? The Hegemony is still stuck with a single primitive line and the RL Locust when the:

a) Taurians with a shattered industrial base could build XPL Brahmas, the various 3085 Phoenix Mechs and the Angel ECM Cadaver by the Dark Age?
b) Randis with a single planet can build an assault Mech with MMLs?
c) New St. Andrews also with a single planet can mass-produce primitive Arbiters by the bucketload before 3075 for themselves and every other customer? (With this comparison, it is illogical that we can't even permanently replace the lost Legio V.
d) Fronc Reaches which lost Detroit and with a smaller resource base could build standard technology Clints, Hunchbacks, Riflemen, Vedettes and Hetzers?

Aside from the Marauder, Ravager BAs and Testudo, the Dark Age Hegemony's industry is not elaborated upon when tiny powers like the aforementioned ones get detailed descriptions ::)
The Taurians had a much more developed economy than the Marians had, so even if it was "shattered", it was still better than the Marian economy.  It didn't help that the Blakist commander used WMDs in revenge against the Taurans on the way out, which didn't happen to the Taurians.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 02 February 2021, 09:04:33
The Taurians had a much more developed economy than the Marians had, so even if it was "shattered", it was still better than the Marian economy.  It didn't help that the Blakist commander used WMDs in revenge against the Taurans on the way out, which didn't happen to the Taurians.

That would be truth, if most of that industry keep beign taurian. Some of the heavily industrilized planets like Sterope just drift away from the Concordat, and the succesive military juntas did their best to just wreck the economy. ONly with the last junta guy the economy (and always likend, the industry) was begginig to get well again after long negotiations with the internal economic actors.

As for the Hegemony, it had decades improving their industry and economy. The "pirate kingdom" era is long past. And the Testudo and Gladius II showed that at the least the Marian infraestructure can handle dealing with "advanced" (cofcof) tech, when no just making it, like the "Lithobolos" AIV Launcher.

As i already mentioned, Randis is my faction of choice, and i was really surprised to see so many little references to them in the last products, but its a little strange not to see any to the second (or third) biggest near-periphery nation (Taurian sadly ar in bush league right now, and the RA is a clan faction in my opinion). Heck, even the Aurigan whatever got a couple of notable pilots IIRC.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 02 February 2021, 09:51:59
The Taurians had a much more developed economy than the Marians had, so even if it was "shattered", it was still better than the Marian economy.  It didn't help that the Blakist commander used WMDs in revenge against the Taurans on the way out, which didn't happen to the Taurians.

If you're comparing WMD treatment, Taurus was pummeled with asteroids. While Alphard got neutron-bombed, the physical infrastructure is still intact and will be available after the cleanup.

Not so for Taurus. Whatever they manage to rebuild within that nuclear winter won't compare to the scale of pre-asteroid Taurus simply because post-Jihad TC no longer has its previous resource base and is a pariah state without substantial outside aid.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 02 February 2021, 10:17:03
It is something extremely subjective, the Bullfighting Economy and industry was devastated by the jihad and nobody gave it credits to rebuild anything, they rebuilt it by lungs and they have lost an uncountable amount of factories and worlds, and therefore resources, but magically in 3145 they flourish you make like roses

The Hegemony beyond the attack with the neutron bomb against the capital city there was no damage to its infrastructure, even mostly the factories were beyond the affected area, if technicians were lost, but that is formed in a period of time of no more of 10 years and you replace all the lost personnel, and all this without counting the factories built in other systems such as Pompey, Horatius, Addhara, Baccalieu that continued working quietly

The non-technological development of the Hegemony is pure incongruity of the writers, and it comes long, with a book contradicting the one that follows, all the other states modernized their lines of primitives

The Hegemony built Centurions, Gladiator, Icarus II, Emperor and others but when lines had to be modernized it seems that the Hegemony by decision of who knows who continued to build only Centurions and always primitive
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 02 February 2021, 10:21:00
Taurians are doing their own re-unification, so it will definitely be returning to their previous level while the Hegemony sits.

The Hegemony suffers from bad geography for several reasons- most importantly they are not at the border between two Inner Sphere realms where they can benefit from tensions.  But there is no one besides the FWL to trade with like the MoC & TC have in their region.  Their nearest periphery power that could have been trading with would have been the CF- and they ceased to exist. 

Several times they have lost chunks of equipment trying to re-establish control over a sector- in fact it has resulted in the death of a few Caesers since the 3050s.  Most the time the League was fractured, Kendall was the base for the Protectors which made it a bit tough to take on.  Even after the Protectors officially moved out, the planetary militia would have been a tough tackle along with the factory security forces.  Heck, IMO Kendall becomes a merc hub for the fractured League which means the on-world defense options are more than what might be expected.

Now they got out with some of the infrastructure so it becomes a question of what they do with it.

Personally, for thematic reasons I hope they manage to start building a Marian Cataphract- we know they can build the LB-10X, ERMLs at this point should not be a stretch . . . and they built ERPPCs on Kendall, along with a pair of heavy mechs- one a 70t machine.  The Cent 9Ar has a HPPC . . . so a HPPC/LB-10X?  The question is would it be the gun port matching design or another '3150' offering.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 02 February 2021, 10:47:30
As for Kendall, it is already hitting a dead dog, apart from the planetary militia unit with nukes in 3080, in 3090 the II Legion broke the floor with what would be garrisoned on the planet and sacked the planet, there was an opportunity to spare from kidnapping or convincing staff to go to hegemony, steal data, dismantle a line etc etc

I'm not even asking for something as glorious as a version of Catapracht, but rather that we can build an assortment of medium mechs, if a heavy mech from a thousand loves comes along.

As for the tech, the tech 3050 is common and is sold by anyone with a minimum commercial interest, for a long time there was a route and almost bordering on Lira, and I don't see anyone more interested in screwing Marik's existence than The Lyran Alliance , It could have been a good background of commercial relations between Lira and the Hegemony, but the authors did not seem interested in developing that or even deepening the commercial alliance with Taurus
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jimdigris on 02 February 2021, 17:04:24
The Hegemony had three other things working against it:
1) It's advanced tech factories were built by the WOB.  When the Marians turned against them, there was a great deal of fighting and a lot of that may have been destroyed by the ones who made that happen in the first place.
2) The Hegemony suffers from constant attacks from the pirates of the Circinus ruins.  The amount of damage that it has done to the infrastructure has not been detailed.
3) The economy is heavily slave-based.  Cheap labor like that removes the incentive to innovate technologically.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 02 February 2021, 17:24:25
I've always been a bit surprised the Hegemony hasn't swept up the individual Circinus Federation worlds, especially given one of them contained a small mech factory that was building phoenix mechs that (AFAIK) survived the jihad.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 02 February 2021, 17:26:43
Distance and a hostile space between
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 03 February 2021, 02:51:40
It is something extremely subjective, the Bullfighting Economy and industry was devastated by the jihad and nobody gave it credits to rebuild anything, they rebuilt it by lungs and they have lost an uncountable amount of factories and worlds, and therefore resources, but magically in 3145 they flourish you make like roses

The Hegemony beyond the attack with the neutron bomb against the capital city there was no damage to its infrastructure, even mostly the factories were beyond the affected area, if technicians were lost, but that is formed in a period of time of no more of 10 years and you replace all the lost personnel, and all this without counting the factories built in other systems such as Pompey, Horatius, Addhara, Baccalieu that continued working quietly

The non-technological development of the Hegemony is pure incongruity of the writers, and it comes long, with a book contradicting the one that follows, all the other states modernized their lines of primitives

The Hegemony built Centurions, Gladiator, Icarus II, Emperor and others but when lines had to be modernized it seems that the Hegemony by decision of who knows who continued to build only Centurions and always primitive

This. Somehow the Taurians have magically grown in spite of their hardships.

Yet the Hegemony does not even get a mention of new Mechs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 03 February 2021, 03:03:30
Taurians are doing their own re-unification, so it will definitely be returning to their previous level while the Hegemony sits.

Such a return to the previous level would take 20-30 years minimum.

Quote
The Hegemony suffers from bad geography for several reasons- most importantly they are not at the border between two Inner Sphere realms where they can benefit from tensions.  But there is no one besides the FWL to trade with like the MoC & TC have in their region.  Their nearest periphery power that could have been trading with would have been the CF- and they ceased to exist. 

They are, as Adacas mentioned, in between the FWL and LC. The LC cultivated a relationship with far-off nuke-happy Regulus that genocided one of their planets just to disrupt the FWL remnants after the Jihad, yet it nowhere was it mentioned the LC did the same with the Hegemony which didn't nuke anything. They could also trade with the Rim Collection or Andurien but these were also not mentioned.

Quote
Several times they have lost chunks of equipment trying to re-establish control over a sector- in fact it has resulted in the death of a few Caesers since the 3050s.  Most the time the League was fractured, Kendall was the base for the Protectors which made it a bit tough to take on.  Even after the Protectors officially moved out, the planetary militia would have been a tough tackle along with the factory security forces.  Heck, IMO Kendall becomes a merc hub for the fractured League which means the on-world defense options are more than what might be expected.

Those losses was the reason Julius and Cassius jumpstarted a native Hegemony military industry which should've developed into something at least equalling the Dark Age TC. The Kendall Protectors are a mere unit along with the planetary militia. Whatever they have on hand will not survive the kind of multi-Legion(two or more) assault the Hegemony launched against Lothario and Illyria. Illyria had the Arms of Thor and Cavanaugh's Cavalry yet Julius handled it before even ascending the throne. Kendall? Not a chance against veteran Legios. Merc hubs typically host mercs who fight for money and a single planet won't be able to hire them all at once.

There is this passive acceptance of Hegemony stagnation yet at the same time there is such an advocacy for all the cutting edge Mechs that Clan Wolf and many other factions have received.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 03 February 2021, 03:09:22
The Hegemony had three other things working against it:
1) It's advanced tech factories were built by the WOB.  When the Marians turned against them, there was a great deal of fighting and a lot of that may have been destroyed by the ones who made that happen in the first place.
2) The Hegemony suffers from constant attacks from the pirates of the Circinus ruins.  The amount of damage that it has done to the infrastructure has not been detailed.
3) The economy is heavily slave-based.  Cheap labor like that removes the incentive to innovate technologically.

1) Those advanced factories were never completed by the WoB after Julius cut ties with them. The Marians spent the Jihad and post-Jihad slowly staffing and activating them.
2) Everyone else in the post-Jihad setting except the Republic and CapCon suffers from constant pirate attacks. Yet you don't see them stagnating technologically.
3) Nope. Both Julius and Cassius valued R&D. Cassius almost bankrupted the nation to start Mech production and spent vast sums hiring Dr Daffyd Rou and finishing the Ravager factory.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 03 February 2021, 03:12:56
I've always been a bit surprised the Hegemony hasn't swept up the individual Circinus Federation worlds, especially given one of them contained a small mech factory that was building phoenix mechs that (AFAIK) survived the jihad.

Pre-3130, they were hobbled by that Dark Age map created for WK. However, after 3130, the Hegemony should've capitalized on the HPG crash and conquered all the way to Son Hoa and that whole line of unaffiliated ex-FWL systems bordering Tamarind/Rim Commonality as the neoFWL was still many years from forming.

Instead, we have a series of poorly-explained artificial contrivances that make the Hegemony bumbling till Shattered Fortress.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Elmoth on 03 February 2021, 03:53:56
I have a wild theory regarding the lack of support from the lyrans. It is thin I know: the Hegemony reminds everybody of the Rim Wolds Republic. Periphery powerhouse based on slavery and investing heavily in expansion in a short time.

This is the reason I actually like them and think they should be bigger by now, but it could also explain the wariness. What I do not understand is why they are not more at war with the FWL in a genocidal kind of conflict.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jimdigris on 03 February 2021, 06:27:27
1) Those advanced factories were never completed by the WoB after Julius cut ties with them. The Marians spent the Jihad and post-Jihad slowly staffing and activating them.
2) Everyone else in the post-Jihad setting except the Republic and CapCon suffers from constant pirate attacks. Yet you don't see them stagnating technologically.
3) Nope. Both Julius and Cassius valued R&D. Cassius almost bankrupted the nation to start Mech production and spent vast sums hiring Dr Daffyd Rou and finishing the Ravager factory.
Could you give me sources and page numbers for this information?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 03 February 2021, 08:26:12
Pre-3130, they were hobbled by that Dark Age map created for WK. However, after 3130, the Hegemony should've capitalized on the HPG crash and conquered all the way to Son Hoa and that whole line of unaffiliated ex-FWL systems bordering Tamarind/Rim Commonality as the neoFWL was still many years from forming.


Son Hoa? That's a long ways to go for very little.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 03 February 2021, 10:03:19
Could you give me sources and page numbers for this information?

Pg10 TRO3085:Supplemental.

The pirate issue is mentioned in almost any Jihad or post-Jihad book.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 03 February 2021, 10:04:21
Could you give me sources and page numbers for this information?

Quote
1) Those advanced factories were never completed by the WoB after Julius cut ties with them. The Marians spent the Jihad and post-Jihad slowly staffing and activating them.

TRO:3085 Supplemental, pag. 10.
Quote
When Julius evicted the Word from his nation, he also saw the possibility of a dedicated Marian Hegemony battle armor factory go with them. The partially built lines would lay dormant through the rest of the Jihad, a contrasting reminder of benefits the tiny nation might have enjoyed had they continued their alliance with the Word. It would take an outsider to bring that vision into a Marian reality.


Quote
3) Nope. Both Julius and Cassius valued R&D. Cassius almost bankrupted the nation to start Mech production and spent vast sums hiring Dr Daffyd Rou and finishing the Ravager factory.

TRO:3085 Supplemental, pag. 10.
Quote
Provided a staff of the best Marian technicians and a budget that threatened to beggar the struggling nation, Dr. Rou was tasked to complete the battle armor facility and build a new suit that would “capture the attention and pocket books of the whole Sphere.”

XTRO: RetroTech pag. 5
Quote
Building a Mech production facility is no mean feat, even for a Successor State that has damaged facilities to start with. For the Marian Hegemony, the development of Marian Arms have been one of the greatest challenges that nation has faced. At first only capable of refitting existing chasses, now these Mech facilities have debuted their first complete manufacture, a local variation on the Centurion.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 03 February 2021, 10:07:44
Son Hoa? That's a long ways to go for very little.

Yeah, Son Hoa is more a desire than a actual viable target. You still are a bit far away from the MH bases, and even after they left the LC, Starcoprs have a security/merc force there. Also Starcorps still had strong relations (both political and economical) with the LC, wich made its conquest of the planet WAY less viable. Now Kendall is another thing, in the Jihad and inmediate post-Jihad era.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 03 February 2021, 10:17:29
Son Hoa? That's a long ways to go for very little.

Nonetheless it is a valuable industrial planet.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 03 February 2021, 10:18:39
Not only the Kendall Factory could have been taken at any time post jihad or dark age, and that is doubly possible with the New St Andrews Factories or the above mentioned Phoenix Factory of the pirates of Circinus, factories continue to appear around the Hegemony very vulnerable but apparently by design of the authors the Hegemony does not see them or are interested in taking them a true and complete madness, or made on purpose to keep the faction weak on purpose.

I take Son Hoa I leave it out of the hegemonic interests because it is precisely the perfect Lyran / Marian / Independent Suppliers trade center.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 03 February 2021, 10:32:59
I have a wild theory regarding the lack of support from the lyrans. It is thin I know: the Hegemony reminds everybody of the Rim Wolds Republic. Periphery powerhouse based on slavery and investing heavily in expansion in a short time.

This is the reason I actually like them and think they should be bigger by now, but it could also explain the wariness. What I do not understand is why they are not more at war with the FWL in a genocidal kind of conflict.

If the Lyrans put a hypothetical fear because a peripheral nation with whom they have no prior history of warfare, over and above a strategic benefit like having someone make Marik's life very miserable would be a dire perception of both military strategy and absolute commercial blindness, which we fully know that the Lyrans are neither blind nor one-eyed when it comes to doing business
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 03 February 2021, 11:36:48
...possible with the New St Andrews Factories...

While military action is (and was) a posibility even in the situation that NSA now have a centralized goverment, it appears that the MH, whie expanding their military and industry since the Jihad, made a bet on "soft" power and diplomacy, a "carrot and stick" kind of diplomacy, to extended their influence to a number of former FWL and circinian worlds. I could assume that something similar coul be happening with NSA.

Also there is the fact that outsider interests are also present in NSA, Interstellar Explorations in this case.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 03 February 2021, 14:41:47
While military action is (and was) a posibility even in the situation that NSA now have a centralized goverment, it appears that the MH, whie expanding their military and industry since the Jihad, made a bet on "soft" power and diplomacy, a "carrot and stick" kind of diplomacy, to extended their influence to a number of former FWL and circinian worlds. I could assume that something similar coul be happening with NSA.

Also there is the fact that outsider interests are also present in NSA, Interstellar Explorations in this case.

But if the authors go from having that policy in 3145, to a crazy attack on the FWL, it even seems that the authors do not read the book that was previously written 5 years earlier in the timeline, I am not talking about 20 years in which policies can change from one cesar to another, it is Cesar himself
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jimdigris on 03 February 2021, 17:45:15
1) Those advanced factories were never completed by the WoB after Julius cut ties with them. The Marians spent the Jihad and post-Jihad slowly staffing and activating them.
2) Everyone else in the post-Jihad setting except the Republic and CapCon suffers from constant pirate attacks. Yet you don't see them stagnating technologically.
3) Nope. Both Julius and Cassius valued R&D. Cassius almost bankrupted the nation to start Mech production and spent vast sums hiring Dr Daffyd Rou and finishing the Ravager factory.
According to the novel "Double Blind", the Marians got the lion's share of advanced mechs from the Word of Blake.  They didn't have advanced factories of their own. 
According to the Field Manual 3145, "This recovery has been slowed by increased combat action across the coreward region of the Hegemony, where the I, II, and III Legios have all been experiencing nearly triple the number of bandit raids since hostilities with the Lothian League were suspended".  Clearly, resources were being eaten up there.
Whether there has been a considerable investment in R+D or not, they have a long way to go to reach everyone else's technical proficiency levels.  What they have achieved is pretty good considering where they started.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 03 February 2021, 18:46:13
Definitely Mr. Jimidigris likes to take what seems to him as real or not, since 3067 the Marian Hegemony builds both the command and the Locust the first one said in the tro 3050 update and the Locust appears in the Techmanual as the first hegemonic mech

The Actions against Lothario were banned by Ignatius O'Really upon the death of his father in 3090, it is more swear never to attack Logan Prime again, the wave of pirate attacks in the surrounding area of Circinus is real and every 10 years or so there is a re-outbreak The Legions go and destroy everything, hence they are so fired up, but the problem for your reasoning is that there is no hegemonic industrial planet in that area since Illyria recently had a factory in 3130 and all the other hegemonic factories are in the Province by Alphard
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 03 February 2021, 20:24:52
Curious...

If Marian HMI produces the Shilone, which variant would you produce more of? Standard  SL-17 or the AC/2 popper, SL-17AC?

Cause everything else is way to high in tech... maybe the SL-17R, but that's it.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 04 February 2021, 01:20:22
According to the novel "Double Blind", the Marians got the lion's share of advanced mechs from the Word of Blake.  They didn't have advanced factories of their own. 
According to the Field Manual 3145, "This recovery has been slowed by increased combat action across the coreward region of the Hegemony, where the I, II, and III Legios have all been experiencing nearly triple the number of bandit raids since hostilities with the Lothian League were suspended".  Clearly, resources were being eaten up there.
Whether there has been a considerable investment in R+D or not, they have a long way to go to reach everyone else's technical proficiency levels.  What they have achieved is pretty good considering where they started.

And where did they start? Julius had started the baby steps of modernizing the realm.

Seems there is a selective ignorance of information here.

As others have mentioned, there is a deliberate artificial weakening or stagnation  of the Hegemony and in the case of Kendall, you don't go soft on militias that nuke your troops and deliberately cripple their own agriculture.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 04 February 2021, 01:22:27
But if the authors go from having that policy in 3145, to a crazy attack on the FWL, it even seems that the authors do not read the book that was previously written 5 years earlier in the timeline, I am not talking about 20 years in which policies can change from one cesar to another, it is Cesar himself

Yes, there is an inconsistency of canon for "designated loser" factions since the 3145 series came out. The Hegemony is but one of those factions. While the "designated winner" factions are artificially overpowered or achieve impossible things with laughable amount of low resources.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 04 February 2021, 01:28:20
If the Lyrans put a hypothetical fear because a peripheral nation with whom they have no prior history of warfare, over and above a strategic benefit like having someone make Marik's life very miserable would be a dire perception of both military strategy and absolute commercial blindness, which we fully know that the Lyrans are neither blind nor one-eyed when it comes to doing business

Exactly. And in canon the Lyrans sponsor Regulus after the Jihad to destabilize the former FWL even though Lyran citizens want Regulan blood for genociding Poulsbo. Logically, they will definitely sponsor the Hegemony to counterbalance Tamarind.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 February 2021, 03:45:40
Exactly. And in canon the Lyrans sponsor Regulus after the Jihad to destabilize the former FWL even though Lyran citizens want Regulan blood for genociding Poulsbo. Logically, they will definitely sponsor the Hegemony to counterbalance Tamarind.

 . . . Trillian is not in a position to do any foreign adventuring.  It is also not her League border she worries about.  IMO the picture as presented in FM3145 and what we get in Shattered Sphere is they bought, sort of, into Stone's Peace and were not pushing a production recovery though may have had a tech one.  Since the Jihad they have had a steady bleeding out of the Legions strength due to getting Teutonberg'd in a former province they have since abandoned.  They fought the Rim Commonality and IIRC MoC over Astrokasy (lost), and have also had to fend off regular pirate raids- some probably fostered by Tamarind & Rim governments.

They do have a support infrastructure that is pretty well developed since they have purchasing agents to buy mechs & armor to rebuild from across the Inner Sphere.  But the Hegemony is not like other Periphery realms, they are 'new.'  They never fought the Star League or built up during the Golden Age . . . so it is not like they can put abandoned plants back into operation like the MoC or TC, and while they were buddies with the Blakists for a while they did not get the same quality of tech transfers the Trinity Alliance fostered.

Like I said, their geography sucks . . . they are not sitting on the border of two realms where they can reap advantages by carefully playing the Inners against each other.  They can trade with the League but the distance to anyone else worth trading with is LONG . . . sure commercial ties to the Lyrans might exist but that is a months long journey.  Especially if they do not want to travel through (or welcome to) League space- and what they want to trade for, they will not want the League to know about.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jimdigris on 04 February 2021, 06:21:07
Definitely Mr. Jimidigris likes to take what seems to him as real or not, since 3067 the Marian Hegemony builds both the command and the Locust the first one said in the tro 3050 update and the Locust appears in the Techmanual as the first hegemonic mech
Personal attacks don't win arguments.
I'm sorry that your favorite faction isn't producing state-of-the-art machines, but that's life. 
Also, be sure to proof-read.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 04 February 2021, 10:44:46
There may not be enough proof for you, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.  As discussed earlier the MH recently has not got much stage time . I'd love to get an update for the periphery soon.

It is however logical to assume the MH has continued its upgrade program between the 3080 write up to what little we have in 3145. We have seen smaller more isolated powers do it (Randis, the Hansa, etc) . I think you would find similar problem finding info that the MH hasn't upgraded.

We just need more information.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 04 February 2021, 10:50:59
Personal attacks don't win arguments.
I'm sorry that your favorite faction isn't producing state-of-the-art machines, but that's life. 
Also, be sure to proof-read.

I'm not a native speaker, so I can get it if there are a lot of forum members who can't produce perfect grammar.

Adacas does have a point with the Mech production since 3067, plus the AIV launcher, Ultra AC and FF armour on the Testudo is Star League level of technology for the Hegemony.

That is why it is baffling when they are inexplicably written to lose in a terrible way against factions that auto-win because they were designated as so. Come on. Launching a berserker drive at both the neoFWL and Canopus when the former had reunited and already subjugated Regulus and not occupied with the Wolves or Lyrans while Canopus had Liao and Andurien backing? Are these the actions of a veteran military?

It's just like a 12 year-old playing Pokemon and grinding his best team to high levels before having a cakewalk through the game. The Marians were scripted to lose.

If the scenario wanted to be credible and believable, the Marians should've launched this campaign well before the neoFWL formed and Canopus being occupied with the Suns. As it is, it looks like a neoFWL and Canopian ultimate victorious fan fiction coming true in canon.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 04 February 2021, 11:02:17
. . . Trillian is not in a position to do any foreign adventuring.  It is also not her League border she worries about.  IMO the picture as presented in FM3145 and what we get in Shattered Sphere is they bought, sort of, into Stone's Peace and were not pushing a production recovery though may have had a tech one.  Since the Jihad they have had a steady bleeding out of the Legions strength due to getting Teutonberg'd in a former province they have since abandoned.  They fought the Rim Commonality and IIRC MoC over Astrokasy (lost), and have also had to fend off regular pirate raids- some probably fostered by Tamarind & Rim governments.

Wow. The Sons of Mars buying into Stone's Peace? The Periphery never bought into Stone's Peace because of the pirate problem and their small militaries to begin with.

Not pushing a production recovery? Cassius wouldn't have bothered with nearly bankrupting the nation to bootstrap native Marian military and especially Mech production, would he?

Quote
They do have a support infrastructure that is pretty well developed since they have purchasing agents to buy mechs & armor to rebuild from across the Inner Sphere.  But the Hegemony is not like other Periphery realms, they are 'new.'  They never fought the Star League or built up during the Golden Age . . . so it is not like they can put abandoned plants back into operation like the MoC or TC, and while they were buddies with the Blakists for a while they did not get the same quality of tech transfers the Trinity Alliance fostered.

I wonder what happened to those abandoned plants and new plants in the TC after the asteroid attacks on Taurus, the Roughrider razing attacks and the secession of worlds like Sterope.

Quote
Like I said, their geography sucks . . . they are not sitting on the border of two realms where they can reap advantages by carefully playing the Inners against each other.  They can trade with the League but the distance to anyone else worth trading with is LONG . . . sure commercial ties to the Lyrans might exist but that is a months long journey.  Especially if they do not want to travel through (or welcome to) League space- and what they want to trade for, they will not want the League to know about.

Since the Jihad, they could have easily traded with the Lyrans with Regulus as a middleman, immensely profiting all 3 sides. They could have easily integrated New St Andrews and the Circinian worlds with the factory too. Better the Pax Mariana then being pirate havens. But they decide to take stupid pills and not continue the nation-building that Julius began way before the Jihad.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 February 2021, 11:57:12
Really?  Because the 3145 write up has them pushing soft-power and instead of outright control by invasion trying to establish client states (like the Roman Empire) . . . Part of establishing clients is giving them access to military equipment, not as much or as good as yours but you give them a little.  You can try to advance your ability to produce higher tech components without trying to mass produce them.

ARR, you were complaining about their state of industry but the Hegemony was never even at the level the Taurians lowest point.  They were still building up the infrastructure to that point- but it is not just the Taurians, the point of comparison was for all the Periphery realms.  It is not just the final weapon plants- it is the mines to get the ore, the smelters to refine the ore, the facilities to make the fancier alloys needed, electronics factories to build the chips . . . the pyramid of production is thousands of industries and jobs to build those finished products.  In universe, there was a reason the Hegemony was building the CN9-H with primitive engines and armor before they built the CN9-Ar with standard components.

Stellar Cartography
You are still missing the point of the astrography-  they have no one close that works as a trade partner except the FWL.  No competing power is close enough they can readily play the League off against- unlike the Oberon Confederation which played the Lyrans & Dracs, or the TC kissing up to the Cappies vs FedSuns, MoC playing the FWL & CC.  The Hegemony does not have those types of levers, League policy would IMO make it a given their enemies would be trying to use the Hegemony.

Without going through the League Lyran space is dozens of jumps away, and they have not been in the position to do anything since early 40s.  Trading with Regulus?  Closer but the League is absolutely in the way requiring sensitive cargos (like that military aid you think they might give) having to go a long way around.  Regulus traded with the Lyrans by going through the Republic or MSC . . . and after Hammerfall kicked off that was no longer a option.  Lester Cameron Jones laments his latest trade delegation was in Lyran space right as Hammerfall kicked off- July 3137, and that the had not been able to get much military support in recent years.  For the Taurians to trade with the CapCon, it takes them what . . . 3, 4 jumps and it places them beyond the border systems?  The MoC is IIRC 2 jumps (or was) to get from one nation to the other.  How many jumps is it around old League space or at least through unaligned systems?

Let's see . . . Maximillian-Zorn's Keep-Hardisey's Haven-Diedre's Den-Son Hoa . . . so 4 jumps from the edge of Hegemony space to what was Lyran space before 3140.  But Maximillian is at least another 4 or 5 (depending on path) jumps from what was the core of Hegemony space.

Btw, 3139 was when Ignatius ordered expanded military production . . . which puts him 7 years behind the IS.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 04 February 2021, 12:22:02
The Marians were scripted to lose.


Glad you figured out how writing works.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 04 February 2021, 12:51:26
Am I the only person who actually enjoys the Hegemony being behind everyone else tech-wise? Most other Periphery powers are on the same level as the Inner Sphere at this point, or only a little behind. Very little difference between playing them and a Great House at this point, once dice are hitting the table. But playing the Marians with a mix of primitive and intro tech, with a mild seasoning of modern units? That's a gameplay dynamic you won't find anywhere else, except maybe the Goliath Scorpions back when they had the stupid name but fun tech base. Playing the Marian Hegemony is like a Clan vs IS game in the early 3050s, but without being able to lean on the enemy having silly honor rules. That kinda dynamic is fun, and I'm not looking forward to the days when it goes away.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 04 February 2021, 13:19:10
I love primitive and industrial mechs, but I would find it odd fluff wise that a star spanning empire would not at least try to keep pace with their neighbors tech level. The Hansa were able to take huge steps forward in this same time period, the MH  should be similar or a step a head of the Hansa in my opinion.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 04 February 2021, 13:28:58
the canopians are essentially the Maximillian Commemorative Rimword Annex for the Capellans now so they (and the Anduriens) have a distinct advantage over the hegemony in the acquisition and technical assistance department.

I imagine you'd get a more of an eclectic MH feel with some of the smaller periphery states we don't track like the Rim Collection and Fronc Reaches, though the rocket launcher craze of the 3060s gives the Marians a more distinctive feel that teeters closer to pirate tech than most factions flirt with.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 February 2021, 14:00:04
I love primitive and industrial mechs, but I would find it odd fluff wise that a star spanning empire would not at least try to keep pace with their neighbors tech level. The Hansa were able to take huge steps forward in this same time period, the MH  should be similar or a step a head of the Hansa in my opinion.

Hansa also had longer to develop and more developed worlds IIRC.

Am I the only person who actually enjoys the Hegemony being behind everyone else tech-wise? Most other Periphery powers are on the same level as the Inner Sphere at this point, or only a little behind. Very little difference between playing them and a Great House at this point, once dice are hitting the table. But playing the Marians with a mix of primitive and intro tech, with a mild seasoning of modern units? That's a gameplay dynamic you won't find anywhere else, except maybe the Goliath Scorpions back when they had the stupid name but fun tech base. Playing the Marian Hegemony is like a Clan vs IS game in the early 3050s, but without being able to lean on the enemy having silly honor rules. That kinda dynamic is fun, and I'm not looking forward to the days when it goes away.

It is a different dynamic.  I still think we could see a KS art unit get tossed their way- I am pulling for the Cataphract for thematic reasons . . . and considering what type of RLs to use on it.  I think a lot of the issue is they are just producing the two lights and two meds . . . which is why I hope we hear they get a heavy of some sort.  Honestly, I would like to see them get the flavor of using LFEs and eschewing XLs.  Get a update of their Centurion using a LFE, LBX & RLs, give us a Cataphract using LFE, LBX, HPPC (from CN9-Ar sourcing), and RLS.  Afaik, even the creators of the LFE has not really pushed their deployment.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 04 February 2021, 15:48:47
Hansa also had longer to develop and more developed worlds IIRC.

They actually had to start off their 4th mech line with a primitive Wolverine.  And the other three lines struggle to produce mechs in 3080. The MH was not struggling in their production having 6 mech lines, 4 primitive  / retrotech and the more modern Locust and Commando .
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 February 2021, 16:04:20
They actually had to start off their 4th mech line with a primitive Wolverine.  And the other three lines struggle to produce mechs in 3080. The MH was not struggling in their production having 6 mech lines, 4 primitive  / retrotech and the more modern Locust and Commando .

The Hansa had more industry but were not introduced to the mech until later AFAIK . . . like, they were just armor, infantry & space forces until the 3050s.  They were also, as of 3142, importing some of the means of production they needed.  The key point is they were a nation and developing longer than the Hegemony- they have the infrastructure producing the thousands of things needed to make a mech.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 05 February 2021, 01:28:02
Really?  Because the 3145 write up has them pushing soft-power and instead of outright control by invasion trying to establish client states (like the Roman Empire) . . . Part of establishing clients is giving them access to military equipment, not as much or as good as yours but you give them a little.  You can try to advance your ability to produce higher tech components without trying to mass produce them.

They don't need to give them access to military equipment. They could just train the client troops and guarantee their protection. The Marians have been trying to advance and mass produce even during the Jihad.

Quote
ARR, you were complaining about their state of industry but the Hegemony was never even at the level the Taurians lowest point.  They were still building up the infrastructure to that point- but it is not just the Taurians, the point of comparison was for all the Periphery realms.  It is not just the final weapon plants- it is the mines to get the ore, the smelters to refine the ore, the facilities to make the fancier alloys needed, electronics factories to build the chips . . . the pyramid of production is thousands of industries and jobs to build those finished products.  In universe, there was a reason the Hegemony was building the CN9-H with primitive engines and armor before they built the CN9-Ar with standard components.

Oh really? So how does Fronc, Rim Collection and Randis with their Mech production factor into your model? They're even younger, Fronc by 146 years even.

Quote
Stellar Cartography
You are still missing the point of the astrography-  they have no one close that works as a trade partner except the FWL.  No competing power is close enough they can readily play the League off against- unlike the Oberon Confederation which played the Lyrans & Dracs, or the TC kissing up to the Cappies vs FedSuns, MoC playing the FWL & CC.  The Hegemony does not have those types of levers, League policy would IMO make it a given their enemies would be trying to use the Hegemony.

Without going through the League Lyran space is dozens of jumps away, and they have not been in the position to do anything since early 40s.  Trading with Regulus?  Closer but the League is absolutely in the way requiring sensitive cargos (like that military aid you think they might give) having to go a long way around.  Regulus traded with the Lyrans by going through the Republic or MSC . . . and after Hammerfall kicked off that was no longer a option.  Lester Cameron Jones laments his latest trade delegation was in Lyran space right as Hammerfall kicked off- July 3137, and that the had not been able to get much military support in recent years.  For the Taurians to trade with the CapCon, it takes them what . . . 3, 4 jumps and it places them beyond the border systems?  The MoC is IIRC 2 jumps (or was) to get from one nation to the other.  How many jumps is it around old League space or at least through unaligned systems?

Let's see . . . Maximillian-Zorn's Keep-Hardisey's Haven-Diedre's Den-Son Hoa . . . so 4 jumps from the edge of Hegemony space to what was Lyran space before 3140.  But Maximillian is at least another 4 or 5 (depending on path) jumps from what was the core of Hegemony space.

Except that with your astrography a microstate like the Rim Collection is already trading with far-off Canopus before the Jihad in HB:MPS.

Quote
Btw, 3139 was when Ignatius ordered expanded military production . . . which puts him 7 years behind the IS.

There are a variety of ways to interpret "ordered expanded military production". The Marians could have already been producing on militarized levels before the production expansion order i.e. upping from 12 Testudos a month to 24 Testudos a month. The point was the Legions could have started conquering well before the neoFWL formed, when all those non-affiliates were easy pickings. Besides, FM3145 is infamous for a dearth of information in certain sections and the Republic would have highly limited intelligence on a far-off state like the Hegemony and even if they devote intelligence efforts in the Periphery it would be on Canopus, Taurus and the Ravens.

There are 50 years from 3085 till 3135. Cassius has demonstrated a will to develop native military production. Only the Republic fully bought into their MMRP. No one in the Hegemony, Taurus or Canopus gave it a second glance.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 05 February 2021, 01:29:14
Glad you figured out how writing works.

Glad you took a line out of context and had fun with it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 05 February 2021, 09:08:55
Glad you took a line out of context and had fun with it.

Please elaborate then, because all I get from your writing is "the writers made us lose".
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 05 February 2021, 09:39:37
I think ArkRoyalRavager and Kit deSummersville need to chill a bit.

I hate to have this thread locked down because of whatever makes it happen comes true.

Please, PM any negative thoughts, don't spread it like butter. If you wanted preserves, it should have been private.

Heating up escalates to banning.

Now if you think Marian Hegemony is done wrong, choose to leave it alone. Things get retcon'd daily or changed in a way to operate. Hell, live in 3040 era if you like, or just ignore canon all together. But please, no negatives.

Thank you.

( I to am looking for some measure to one of my favorite units, but arguing against it does not help. Period! )

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 February 2021, 11:54:29
They don't need to give them access to military equipment. They could just train the client troops and guarantee their protection. The Marians have been trying to advance and mass produce even during the Jihad.

Which is not how client states work . . . you give them your second rate military gear to foster a dependency on you for their protection.  You train their military leaders to influence their thinking, along with sending in advisors and training missions to make them align closer to your standards and be friendly.  So, no if the the Marians produced a CN9-H2 or something that upgraded their old Hs closer to something like the CN10-B in loadouts they would sell/transfer their more marginal CN9-Hs to the client states.  The client gets some adequate defense forces, they are dependent on the Hegemony for replacement parts and efficient training, and the Legions would still be able to roll over that client if it came down to it in the future.

Fronc is made up of old Capellan, Taurian and Magistry settled worlds.  The Star League had bases & settlements there since the Reunification War, and we have indications there were states their previously besides being the center of trade routes between the TC/FS/CC/MoC.  In fact, they refurbished a old Star League (or Star League era) facility on Detroit but took investment from nearby states IIRC.  Rim Collection was producing weapons only until 'recently' when IIRC they started producing a local primitive mech at a single facility.  Randis?  Has a single facility producing a primitive mech but they got the benefit of a influx of Jag refugees.

None of which stack up to the Hegemony producing a handful of mechs along with vehicles and a pair of BA.  Heck, the ONLY other Periphery power that builds two different battle armor (and they are the same class!) is the Canopians, and THEY got to that point by CapCon assistance.

The Rim Collection trading with the Magistry of Canopus for that single reference is indicative of nothing.  I had a package shipped to me from China for something I ordered last year.  I am involved in trade with China . . . but I do not compare with Walmart, even if we both trade with China.  I am not claiming the Hegemony is not trading with the Dracs or even civilian side of the Alliance for a distant trade route (in fact, I point to the equipment buying missions), but you cannot build a economy on such infrequent or long distance trade.  If they have jumpships engaged in that trade it means the ship is spending years going to that point and coming back . . . during that time it is not plying local trade routes.  Instead of enriching local economies and worlds, instead your docking collars would be used to move DS in the League, Republic and Combine to use the closer example.  Additionally, part of the reason the Rim Collection could have been trading with the Canopians could simply be b/c they wanted/needed medical advancements they could by there as part of Emma Centrella's periphery uplifting efforts that they could not get from Lyran space.

The referenced section of 'expanded production' was in relation to the establishment of a BA production facility on Illyria- which just happens to now be giving Marauder or Ravage BA to Tamarind I guess, it might also be the MH's only BA facility- but was in response to the League's reformation.  Everyone bought into Stone's peace initiatives to one level or another, the Marians might have barely followed along like the Clans (no matter what, a more militarized society) rather than buying in wholesale like the FedSuns.  You may not like it, but it was the state of the setting going into 3132- so at best they might have expanded the production capability since 3070s but not actually run the facilities at full speed except when they were replacing their losses.  They were able to build new facilities to replace the destroyed ones on Perdition in 3099 on Addhara.  FM3145 actually claims the MH has not seen economic & military growth after the settlement of the Lothian question that has not been experienced since the nation's founding.

Finally, you seem to be implying the Hegemony was under a single leader with a single vision- they were not.  Julius, Cassius (d 3106), Lucian (d 3128)and Ignatius.  The FM specifically notes that Ignatius has had less aggressive policies against un-aligned neighboring systems.  Besides having to rebuild the I Legion twice in roughly 20 years, the other Legios were also engaged in widespread fighting.  FM3145 says that settling with Lothians have only just begun to recover from the constant strain.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 February 2021, 14:11:18
Curious...

If Marian HMI produces the Shilone, which variant would you produce more of? Standard  SL-17 or the AC/2 popper, SL-17AC?

Cause everything else is way to high in tech... maybe the SL-17R, but that's it.

TT


I would love to know, but they did not say anything about the Hegemonic Shilones beyond what was published I believe in Masters and Minions Starcorps Dossiers
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 February 2021, 14:14:35
There may not be enough proof for you, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.  As discussed earlier the MH recently has not got much stage time . I'd love to get an update for the periphery soon.

It is however logical to assume the MH has continued its upgrade program between the 3080 write up to what little we have in 3145. We have seen smaller more isolated powers do it (Randis, the Hansa, etc) . I think you would find similar problem finding info that the MH hasn't upgraded.

We just need more information.


Totally Saint, they have even received pilots and information about versions of very small factions like the Rim Territories or the nonexistent until the HBS game, the Aurigan Coalition, but nothing at all about hegemony, at least it is an extremely strange circumstance
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 February 2021, 14:30:29
No, you have the information- 3099 new mech & vehicle lines on Addhara to replace what was destroyed on Perdition and Illyria getting a 'first' of some sort to produce BA in 3139.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 February 2021, 14:38:45
Which is not how client states work . . . you give them your second rate military gear to foster a dependency on you for their protection.  You train their military leaders to influence their thinking, along with sending in advisors and training missions to make them align closer to your standards and be friendly.  So, no if the the Marians produced a CN9-H2 or something that upgraded their old Hs closer to something like the CN10-B in loadouts they would sell/transfer their more marginal CN9-Hs to the client states.  The client gets some adequate defense forces, they are dependent on the Hegemony for replacement parts and efficient training, and the Legions would still be able to roll over that client if it came down to it in the future.

Fronc is made up of old Capellan, Taurian and Magistry settled worlds.  The Star League had bases & settlements there since the Reunification War, and we have indications there were states their previously besides being the center of trade routes between the TC/FS/CC/MoC.  In fact, they refurbished a old Star League (or Star League era) facility on Detroit but took investment from nearby states IIRC.  Rim Collection was producing weapons only until 'recently' when IIRC they started producing a local primitive mech at a single facility.  Randis?  Has a single facility producing a primitive mech but they got the benefit of a influx of Jag refugees.

None of which stack up to the Hegemony producing a handful of mechs along with vehicles and a pair of BA.  Heck, the ONLY other Periphery power that builds two different battle armor (and they are the same class!) is the Canopians, and THEY got to that point by CapCon assistance.

The Rim Collection trading with the Magistry of Canopus for that single reference is indicative of nothing.  I had a package shipped to me from China for something I ordered last year.  I am involved in trade with China . . . but I do not compare with Walmart, even if we both trade with China.  I am not claiming the Hegemony is not trading with the Dracs or even civilian side of the Alliance for a distant trade route (in fact, I point to the equipment buying missions), but you cannot build a economy on such infrequent or long distance trade.  If they have jumpships engaged in that trade it means the ship is spending years going to that point and coming back . . . during that time it is not plying local trade routes.  Instead of enriching local economies and worlds, instead your docking collars would be used to move DS in the League, Republic and Combine to use the closer example.  Additionally, part of the reason the Rim Collection could have been trading with the Canopians could simply be b/c they wanted/needed medical advancements they could by there as part of Emma Centrella's periphery uplifting efforts that they could not get from Lyran space.

The referenced section of 'expanded production' was in relation to the establishment of a BA production facility on Illyria- which just happens to now be giving Marauder or Ravage BA to Tamarind I guess, it might also be the MH's only BA facility- but was in response to the League's reformation.  Everyone bought into Stone's peace initiatives to one level or another, the Marians might have barely followed along like the Clans (no matter what, a more militarized society) rather than buying in wholesale like the FedSuns.  You may not like it, but it was the state of the setting going into 3132- so at best they might have expanded the production capability since 3070s but not actually run the facilities at full speed except when they were replacing their losses.  They were able to build new facilities to replace the destroyed ones on Perdition in 3099 on Addhara.  FM3145 actually claims the MH has not seen economic & military growth after the settlement of the Lothian question that has not been experienced since the nation's founding.

Finally, you seem to be implying the Hegemony was under a single leader with a single vision- they were not.  Julius, Cassius (d 3106), Lucian (d 3128)and Ignatius.  The FM specifically notes that Ignatius has had less aggressive policies against un-aligned neighboring systems.  Besides having to rebuild the I Legion twice in roughly 20 years, the other Legios were also engaged in widespread fighting.  FM3145 says that settling with Lothians have only just begun to recover from the constant strain.


But in Era Report 3145 is where Colt Ward says that Ignatius had started a diplomatic task of Client State with a series of ex-Marik systems (Lathi, San Nicolas and Sierra) and some of Circinus (Zorn's Keep) and the independent Paulinus, , giving discounts to go to study at Alphard to civilian and military personnel, so a better vision and even pro-Marian factions in those worlds surely exist.

The BA Factory of Horatius is still there according to TRO 3145 Mercenaries where the Marauder BA appears which clearly says that it is built there in Horatius and Pinard in Taurus, the BA Factory of Illyria may be the first Hegemonic BA Factory built in 0, the previous one was built on a WoB Ba Facility that they never finished putting into operation, this is in the Ravager Fluff

The ATC Factory in Addhara is a mystery, assuming that they build what they destroyed in Perdition, they surely build the Fulcrum, in addition to that the ATC bought the rights to the CPP Carrier and the Goblin that we know are built in the Factory that It was an extension of the Addhara in Leximon (another factory built to apparently get lost)

As for moderately modern mechs, the Marian Hegemony is the only state that after building a number of 4/5 Primitive Mech and 2 "Modern" in 3080, it happened to build in 3145 the same "modern" mechs but in another factory and a Retrotech mech. like the Centurion H (which in fact was already built in 3077 more or less)

As for the Troops, they were rebuilt according to Field Manual 3145, and I quote they were the most veteran troops of the Periphery for their continuous fight against Pirates, it is more if in Shattered Fortress contradicting what was said in the Report / Field Manual 3145 Era, the V Legio to put it illogically in a Front zone ..., what can I tell you, the mechs to conform it must have come from somewhere Factories / Refit / Purchases or a compendium of the three options, and I don't think they have stopped sending mechs to the other 5 more veteran Legio to supply the new Green quality or to supply mechs to their mercs units, which from what they say in Shattered Fortress of being a Veteran unit at 100/120% capacity, the Dragonslayers now have 35% capacity, at least a strange question and which nothing talks about anywhere
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 February 2021, 14:40:19
No, you have the information- 3099 new mech & vehicle lines on Addhara to replace what was destroyed on Perdition and Illyria getting a 'first' of some sort to produce BA in 3139.

It will be the first BA Factory of the ATC, since the other one is from Marian Arms Inc that up to what point is it a hegemonic company?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 February 2021, 15:58:08
Like I said- I hope they get the Cataphract and a updated CN9-H, but right now that is not in the cards.  Their source of heavy and assault mechs would be the salvage purchasing teams they had going since the Jihad.  Taking the old CTF-1X you can get some better performance giving it a HPPC & LB-10X for a LFE & DHS to drop weight- add some RL10s too!

Probably a pretty sweet gig sitting on Galatea or Arc Royal as a Marian buying up salvage from mercs to transport back to the Hegemony for rebuilds.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 February 2021, 16:08:08
Like I said- I hope they get the Cataphract and a updated CN9-H, but right now that is not in the cards.  Their source of heavy and assault mechs would be the salvage purchasing teams they had going since the Jihad.  Taking the old CTF-1X you can get some better performance giving it a HPPC & LB-10X for a LFE & DHS to drop weight- add some RL10s too!

Probably a pretty sweet gig sitting on Galatea or Arc Royal as a Marian buying up salvage from mercs to transport back to the Hegemony for rebuilds.

What you comment is quite possible, I in my ATOW campaign put that there were "Lanistas" Marians collecting and buying parts, mechs bought from factories or second-hand sellers as well as hiring loose merc or small units for later already in Alphard To form small units that were offered both for missions to the Marian state and smaller units for various patrician houses, it would be something easy to organize giving the trusted buyer, the money, a merchant and two Mules, with the clear mission of going and bringing everything to top gear for MHAF
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 05 February 2021, 16:59:17
The Hansa had more industry but were not introduced to the mech until later AFAIK . . . like, they were just armor, infantry & space forces until the 3050s.  They were also, as of 3142, importing some of the means of production they needed.  The key point is they were a nation and developing longer than the Hegemony- they have the infrastructure producing the thousands of things needed to make a mech.
The MH has 6 mech lines, there for has "the infrastructure producing the thousands of things needed to make a mech." They even have 2 tanks (Fulcrum 3050s & Testudo 3131) lines that use more advanced tech (xl Engine , FF Armor, Ultra 10, Arrow IV). All I am saying is it is very likely the mech lines have been upgraded as well.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 February 2021, 17:19:37
And Maultier in 3070, The Shreck CPP and the Goblin according to what appears in Era Report 3145 or was it the Field manual I always get confused , and let's not forget the Heavy LRM Carrier in 3077
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 February 2021, 19:54:15
The MH has 6 mech lines, there for has "the infrastructure producing the thousands of things needed to make a mech." They even have 2 tanks (Fulcrum 3050s & Testudo 3131) lines that use more advanced tech (xl Engine , FF Armor, Ultra 10, Arrow IV). All I am saying is it is very likely the mech lines have been upgraded as well.

They should have more than the 6- the question is what was produced on Addhara when built in the 3090s . . . but we do not know if they are 1 mech every 2 months or something faster- and TPTB have long shied away from telling any of that sort of information.

Additionally, the XL Engines, FF armor, and UAC/10 also have a really close source they could have been getting purchased from- Kendall . . . or long distance shipments from Son Hoa.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 February 2021, 19:56:24
Not the Arrow IV and the FF Armor are local manufacturing, from the UCA I have doubts, already in Mayor Periphery States it said that Fidelis Metals from Addhara was manufacturing FF
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 06 February 2021, 18:45:20
If you looked closer, I hypothesize a theory :

The said Imperator Automatic Ultra Class-10 is made by Imperator Automatic Weaponry of Atreus, a FWL planet known to have WoB control. Of which, MH had contact with in reconstruction of their ( MH ) facilities. Also, Majesty Metals and Manufacturing ( MMM ) located on the planet Ballad, of MoC fame, is a free and independent manufacturing world in the DA.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 07 February 2021, 06:44:13
Fronc is made up of old Capellan, Taurian and Magistry settled worlds.  The Star League had bases & settlements there since the Reunification War, and we have indications there were states their previously besides being the center of trade routes between the TC/FS/CC/MoC.  In fact, they refurbished a old Star League (or Star League era) facility on Detroit but took investment from nearby states IIRC.  Rim Collection was producing weapons only until 'recently' when IIRC they started producing a local primitive mech at a single facility.  Randis?  Has a single facility producing a primitive mech but they got the benefit of a influx of Jag refugees.

Rim Collection is producing standard tech bug mechs by FM3145, not just the Primitive you mentioned. Randis is building standard tech Commandos, Dervishes, Warhammers and HawkWolves, in addition to the earlier primitive Firebees, Dervishes and HawkWolves. The influx you mentioned happened to anyone with the will to expand during or after the Jihad. The Hegemony hired other R&D experts like the Dr that kickstarted Ravager production. Ex Blakists fled to the Hansa and got them to SL tech level by the Imperial Crusade against them.

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None of which stack up to the Hegemony producing a handful of mechs along with vehicles and a pair of BA.  Heck, the ONLY other Periphery power that builds two different battle armor (and they are the same class!) is the Canopians, and THEY got to that point by CapCon assistance.

Canopus has CapCon assistance but even more from an outside source(possibly the true Wolverines) but then I never attempted to compare the Hegemony with Canopus anyway. They're the preeminent Periphery power since the death of Jeffrey Calderon.

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The Rim Collection trading with the Magistry of Canopus for that single reference is indicative of nothing.

So in essence when proper source material is provided it is ignored. The example you provided is for the constant mercantile trade, but the rare long-distance trade is good for the Hegemony as long as there is technology transfer in corporate deals from the Lyrans.

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Everyone bought into Stone's peace initiatives to one level or another, the Marians might have barely followed along like the Clans (no matter what, a more militarized society) rather than buying in wholesale like the FedSuns.

Which is directly contradicted by what was said in Sword of Sedition. It was common knowledge at least among the AFFS High Command even after the Jihad ended till the Dark Age that nobody except the Republic bought into Stone's peace initiatives wholesale. Even the AFFS hedged their bets. The Marians would never bother to follow it because they literally started from a non-existent industrial base during the Jihad. Others could rebuild or mothball, they had to build new ones.

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Finally, you seem to be implying the Hegemony was under a single leader with a single vision- they were not.  Julius, Cassius (d 3106), Lucian (d 3128)and Ignatius.  The FM specifically notes that Ignatius has had less aggressive policies against un-aligned neighboring systems.  Besides having to rebuild the I Legion twice in roughly 20 years, the other Legios were also engaged in widespread fighting.  FM3145 says that settling with Lothians have only just begun to recover from the constant strain.

The Caesars are near-autocratic leaders. Each successive Caesar indeed led the nation according to their vision, as evidenced by their deeds.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 08 February 2021, 08:22:01
If you looked closer, I hypothesize a theory :

The said Imperator Automatic Ultra Class-10 is made by Imperator Automatic Weaponry of Atreus, a FWL planet known to have WoB control. Of which, MH had contact with in reconstruction of their ( MH ) facilities. Also, Majesty Metals and Manufacturing ( MMM ) located on the planet Ballad, of MoC fame, is a free and independent manufacturing world in the DA.

TT

The WoB Connection was until Julius deposed Sean and purged his government of WoB-like people for convenience, then the short relationship violently after the Circinus War and the expulsion of the WoB people from the HPG, and their transfer to Comstar as an operator, having said this to 3145 manufacture CA / 5.CA / 10, Ca / 2, CA / 20 it would be very difficult if Hgemony does not manufacture them locally, the Ultra is a Tech 3050/54 a century away from its The introduction is even more difficult to tell because the hegemony could not manufacture it under license or by copying blueprints of the several times that they looted the mech and tank factories in Kendall

The Factory of Balad II is one of those that appears in the book of 3145 as independent and without stating that they manufacture specifically, it would be a good place to have visited instead of those that the IV Legio visited and to make matters worse without any garrison stipulated in the system according to Field Manual 3145, rare
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 February 2021, 11:25:43
So in essence when proper source material is provided it is ignored. The example you provided is for the constant mercantile trade, but the rare long-distance trade is good for the Hegemony as long as there is technology transfer in corporate deals from the Lyrans.

You are ignoring the whole point of that . . . sure they have trade between- but again they have to pass through at least 3 IS realms (who will have import/export blocks) but the round trip is very time consuming and if your merchant marine is making those sort of distance trades it is not going to be very profitable.  YOUR JS are going to do more to stimulate the economy of the Inner Sphere (by providing collars to move DS around) than improving your own trade.  BT has no Silk Road or East Indies tea/spice trade, therefore going that distance has no immensely profitable reason to travel all that distance.  I gave you the reason WHY their trade would not matter as much- they are not a meeting point between two other entities.  Finally, the point was you also do not know the frequency or how many JS/DS are attached to that Rim-MoC trade route that mostly helps the Lyrans, Republic and League/Cappies.

The Hegemony built a factory in '99 and a BA facility in '39.  You are complaining because they did not do as much as you want . . . but it took them between the Jihad and '99 to build a facility to replace one lost during the conflict.  We NEVER get any sort of indication on production on ANY of the factories or lines which I mentioned.  So what if Randis built a facility if it only churns out 1 mech a month?  By the sound, the Hegemony facilities capacity is higher but again we do not know that for a fact either but you totally dismissed the point I made that the Marians could have spent their resources expanding production capacity (aka, ability to produce more of a single type unit- 1 CN9-H to 10 CN9-H a month) but IIRC they also shifted from the CN9-H to CN9-Ar.  Such a change would mean they went from producing primitive SFE & armor to standard and adding HPPC & LPPC to either their supply chain or in house production.

I never said everyone drank all of Stone's Kool-Aid . . . in fact, I implied everyone cheated but all gave lip service- even the Clans who are more militant than the Marians.  I keep bringing up the fact the Marians were buying up all the salvage from the Jihad to Gray Monday for their techs to rebuild (keeping them in practice, improving processes, getting new tech) which is one little 'cheat.'  Throw in that expanding capacity to build but throttling back that production ability is another feasible means to 'cheat' Stone's diplomatic watchdogs.  Mentioning the FS was merely to scale the Kool-Ad drinking . . . Lyrans and FedSuns followed Stone's initiatives a lot more than the Cappies & Dracs with the overall League somewhere between them.

The reason I pointed out the different Caesers is you are acting like they would all be the same- and by the write up they were not.  Ignatius seemed to be trying to assimilate systems by diplomacy & economics rather than some of the previous Caesers' military adventurism.  Cassius was still involved in a lot of recovery from the Jihad and started off the expansion of Marian abilities with that replacement factory on Addhara in '99
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 08 February 2021, 12:39:48

The Hegemony built a factory in '99 and a BA facility in '39.  You are complaining because they did not do as much as you want . . . but it took them between the Jihad and '99 to build a facility to replace one lost during the conflict.  We NEVER get any sort of indication on production on ANY of the factories or lines which I mentioned.  So what if Randis built a facility if it only churns out 1 mech a month?  By the sound, the Hegemony facilities capacity is higher but again we do not know that for a fact either but you totally dismissed the point I made that the Marians could have spent their resources expanding production capacity (aka, ability to produce more of a single type unit- 1 CN9-H to 10 CN9-H a month) but IIRC they also shifted from the CN9-H to CN9-Ar.  Such a change would mean they went from producing primitive SFE & armor to standard and adding HPPC & LPPC to either their supply chain or in house production.



The reason I pointed out the different Caesers is you are acting like they would all be the same- and by the write up they were not.  Ignatius seemed to be trying to assimilate systems by diplomacy & economics rather than some of the previous Caesers' military adventurism.  Cassius was still involved in a lot of recovery from the Jihad and started off the expansion of Marian abilities with that replacement factory on Addhara in '99

You have a small situation error Colt Ward, those who took time to build the Factory since the Destruction of Perdition is the ATC not the Marian Hegemony, in that period of time The Marian Hegemony helped to expand the Battlearmour Factory from Horatius to Marian Arms, I mean to another company

The same happened throughout the 3070s with Hadrian Inc on the subject of aerospace fighters and Heavy LRM Carrier.

The thing about the ATC both the Addhara Factory and Illyria is because they managed to convince Ignatius to support them economically to make the investment and expansion of capacities, nothing more than that is a good Lobby task

It is seen that the lobbyists of Marian Arms and Hadrian were better doing their thing previously, until I did not rule out that there had been more investments from those factories, what happens is that the authors do not put it

And as for the Caesares, each one gave an imprint to his mandate, both Julius and Cassius sought to expand capabilities and add teams that the hegemony did not have.

We do not know anything about Lucius, except when and where he died and little else, Ignatius decided to continue in the path of his grandfather and great-grandfather with the investment and expansion of capacities, said this except during the period of Lucius that you take that the Hegemony stopped trying to modernize and expand capabilities?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 February 2021, 13:05:35
No, FM3145 says ATC built that Addhara factory . . but it is a non-issue really since BT has always been hazy on ruler/corp boundaries, and tend to wave them away.  If the Caeser had not wanted them to build a new plant it would not have happened.  In fact the sentence before in FM3145 it talks about the Hegemony investing in ATC to replace losses.  My use of 'Hegemony' in that sentence was in regards the a wholistic entity.

There is a difference between capacity and actual production- they CAN make 10 CN9-H a month, but they decide to only make 1 CN9-H a month to keep the factory running as an example.  It would be a lot easier to hide a increase in capacity from any Republic diplomatic station than it would be to hide the actual production of more mechs/tanks/etc a month.  This is important b/c the Marians would have a mission to Galatea (which has to be allowed b/c the Republic's laws) buying salvage from mercs.  FM3145 actually hints at this since with the League's reformation in '39 Ignatius ordered increased production to boost the HAF.

Actually, Ignatius is not doing what his father and grandfather did- instead of trying to take military control, he is trying diplomatic and cultural ties with unaffiliated worlds in a effort to expand the sphere of influence.  It also clearly states (stil FM3145 pg 185) Ignatius has refrained form military expansion- which would be the policy from '28 until the '40s.  The construction of a mech & veh production facility in '99 is a pretty clear indicator of Cassius military expansion policy (along with where he died) while Ignatius did not increase military production for 7 years after the Black Out.  Ignatius is also the Caeser that ordered the inclusion (as paying customers) for non-MH applicants to their war college as a means of culturally aligning those allies who had attendees.  Only when he learned the League had reformed (and could no longer play off the proto-states) did he expand production facilities.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 08 February 2021, 14:13:31
No, FM3145 says ATC built that Addhara factory . . but it is a non-issue really since BT has always been hazy on ruler/corp boundaries, and tend to wave them away.  If the Caeser had not wanted them to build a new plant it would not have happened.  In fact the sentence before in FM3145 it talks about the Hegemony investing in ATC to replace losses.  My use of 'Hegemony' in that sentence was in regards the a wholistic entity.

There is a difference between capacity and actual production- they CAN make 10 CN9-H a month, but they decide to only make 1 CN9-H a month to keep the factory running as an example.  It would be a lot easier to hide a increase in capacity from any Republic diplomatic station than it would be to hide the actual production of more mechs/tanks/etc a month.  This is important b/c the Marians would have a mission to Galatea (which has to be allowed b/c the Republic's laws) buying salvage from mercs.  FM3145 actually hints at this since with the League's reformation in '39 Ignatius ordered increased production to boost the HAF.

Actually, Ignatius is not doing what his father and grandfather did- instead of trying to take military control, he is trying diplomatic and cultural ties with unaffiliated worlds in a effort to expand the sphere of influence.  It also clearly states (stil FM3145 pg 185) Ignatius has refrained form military expansion- which would be the policy from '28 until the '40s.  The construction of a mech & veh production facility in '99 is a pretty clear indicator of Cassius military expansion policy (along with where he died) while Ignatius did not increase military production for 7 years after the Black Out.  Ignatius is also the Caeser that ordered the inclusion (as paying customers) for non-MH applicants to their war college as a means of culturally aligning those allies who had attendees.  Only when he learned the League had reformed (and could no longer play off the proto-states) did he expand production facilities.


Here I agree in part, and in part not, Ignatius is different in terms of cultural assimilation, but, the expansion of Factories is something that seems to follow the path of his grandfather and great-grandfather, when building the Factory in Illyria, although If we are guided by the shattered Fortress Ignatius was rearming the V Legio and the authors dismembered it again to give him something to destroy the Camacho Cavaliers, the same with the others, but it caught my attention that green troops were sent to the front line in an insane maneuver taking into account that the Field Manual 3145 itself said that the troops and commanders of the MHAF were the most veteran of the periphery, which does not close by any side that is if and send those troops to the combat front when they should have been in Pompeii burning training tanks and doing war games with some merc unit, not be in Maximilian to be exterminated but hey

Regarding factories and states, the authors are diffuse when they want and when they want they are not in their definitions
As for the production rates, this is on account of the order to replace equipment in the different units, nobody commits suicide by making a low production so as not to replace the units lost by your troops and mercs

Even if you have the most efficient mech / tank / aero collection office in the universe in Galatea, you are not going to chain yourself and depend exclusively on that, nor on the salvage that you raise in each battle or on what you have saved that you could find.
Your production is the first thing to take into account and I do not see any Cesar count the last to his production

Remember that even CGL did not elaborate on anything about what all the Marian factories produce, neither those of Hadrian nor those of Marian Arms, we know nothing about them after the introduction of the Marauder in Horatius, neither Hadrian nor Marian arms did anything to respond to the economic advance of ATC? I really doubt it
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 11 February 2021, 05:36:39
You are ignoring the whole point of that . . . sure they have trade between- but again they have to pass through at least 3 IS realms (who will have import/export blocks) but the round trip is very time consuming and if your merchant marine is making those sort of distance trades it is not going to be very profitable.  YOUR JS are going to do more to stimulate the economy of the Inner Sphere (by providing collars to move DS around) than improving your own trade.  BT has no Silk Road or East Indies tea/spice trade, therefore going that distance has no immensely profitable reason to travel all that distance.  I gave you the reason WHY their trade would not matter as much- they are not a meeting point between two other entities.  Finally, the point was you also do not know the frequency or how many JS/DS are attached to that Rim-MoC trade route that mostly helps the Lyrans, Republic and League/Cappies.

Nobody but the authors would know that much minutiae. Regardless, the trade would exist and more importantly, there would be technology transfers especially from the Lyrans to keep the post-Jihad former FWL destabilized.

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The Hegemony built a factory in '99 and a BA facility in '39.  You are complaining because they did not do as much as you want . . . but it took them between the Jihad and '99 to build a facility to replace one lost during the conflict.  We NEVER get any sort of indication on production on ANY of the factories or lines which I mentioned.  So what if Randis built a facility if it only churns out 1 mech a month?  By the sound, the Hegemony facilities capacity is higher but again we do not know that for a fact either but you totally dismissed the point I made that the Marians could have spent their resources expanding production capacity (aka, ability to produce more of a single type unit- 1 CN9-H to 10 CN9-H a month) but IIRC they also shifted from the CN9-H to CN9-Ar.  Such a change would mean they went from producing primitive SFE & armor to standard and adding HPPC & LPPC to either their supply chain or in house production.

Exact production rates are never given, they generally don't provide that sort of numbers for a variety of reasons in and out of universe. However, when you say "expanding production capacity", then the minimal MHAF growth would be suspicious either, since they would have to have very high attrition rates in all 60 years between 3085-3145 to sink that production into replacements and other purposes.

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I never said everyone drank all of Stone's Kool-Aid . . . in fact, I implied everyone cheated but all gave lip service- even the Clans who are more militant than the Marians.  I keep bringing up the fact the Marians were buying up all the salvage from the Jihad to Gray Monday for their techs to rebuild (keeping them in practice, improving processes, getting new tech) which is one little 'cheat.'  Throw in that expanding capacity to build but throttling back that production ability is another feasible means to 'cheat' Stone's diplomatic watchdogs.  Mentioning the FS was merely to scale the Kool-Ad drinking . . . Lyrans and FedSuns followed Stone's initiatives a lot more than the Cappies & Dracs with the overall League somewhere between them.

You seem to think Stone's agents are near pervasive, near omniscient and operating with massive resources along with the ability to interdict the Marians or anybody else that engage in militarization outside the Republic's borders. Hence the necessity to even 'cheat'. Stone never bothered greatly about whatever the Marians or any other near/deep Periphery faction(including Hell's Horses) did to militarize simply because this would be tedious micromanagement. His SIS is not ComStar/WoB ROM.

And your statement of
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...rather than buying in wholesale like the FedSuns
clearly says the FedSuns demilitarized on the same level of the Republic, rather than just
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Lyrans and FedSuns followed Stone's initiatives a lot more than the Cappies & Dracs with the overall League somewhere between them
.

Quote
The reason I pointed out the different Caesers is you are acting like they would all be the same- and by the write up they were not.  Ignatius seemed to be trying to assimilate systems by diplomacy & economics rather than some of the previous Caesers' military adventurism.  Cassius was still involved in a lot of recovery from the Jihad and started off the expansion of Marian abilities with that replacement factory on Addhara in '99

All of them would be different in personality but they would continue the native militarization effort begun by Julius to address the MHAF's supply demands.

That primitive Centurion and any other primitive or lower-tech unit production or refits would have been upgraded to TL or Advanced technology long before 3145.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 11 February 2021, 10:14:06
...more importantly, there would be technology transfers especially from the Lyrans to keep the post-Jihad former FWL destabilized.

Correction: There COULD be technology transfers. Just because a few players think it was a good idea, there's no guarantee the Lyrans actually did it, wether due to limited resources, cultural prejudices/blind spots on the part of the decision makers, or any other reason. Remember, we're not exactly dealing with organizations with uninterrupted histories of wise and rational decision making.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 11 February 2021, 10:40:10
Correction: There COULD be technology transfers. Just because a few players think it was a good idea, there's no guarantee the Lyrans actually did it, wether due to limited resources, cultural prejudices/blind spots on the part of the decision makers, or any other reason. Remember, we're not exactly dealing with organizations with uninterrupted histories of wise and rational decision making.

Touche is possible, although seeing the MUL and the variety of Highlanders and Hermit Crabs that now appear on the list does not sound that Starcorps sell mechs, and their technical service is of any problem.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 11 February 2021, 13:22:46
Touche is possible, although seeing the MUL and the variety of Highlanders and Hermit Crabs that now appear on the list does not sound that Starcorps sell mechs, and their technical service is of any problem.

StarCorps Son Hoa facility sells to anyone by the looks of it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 11 February 2021, 16:13:04
StarCorps Son Hoa facility sells to anyone by the looks of it.

That seems which leads to think that there is an established trade route between the MH and Son Hoa, and from there to the Lyran Alliance there is a step
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 11 February 2021, 21:57:30
Let the trade flow!  ;D

The sources keep emphasizing everyone had higher technological levels after the Jihad, so the trade flow keeps the Hegemony expanding in other areas.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: vaderi on 13 February 2021, 05:27:16
It's worth pointing out that economies that run on slave production massively hamper the quality of goods they produce as well as their technical knowledge as a portion of their population that could be gaining technological sophistication must instead be constantly watched for signs of rebellion.

Just as an example, who do you allow to produce explosives? If it's slaves then how do you keep them from either sabotaging it or stealing it? If not slaves then where are you effectively taking skilled workers from?

For me a large portion of why the Hegemony has a hard time (though I'm still sore about the pointlessness of the attack on the Reformed FWL) is that the Hegemony has tied its economy to a model that is massively inefficient and technologically incompetent, it is honestly majorly impressive that the Hegemony produces and designs it's own BA given the general technological competence across all levels of society that are required.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 13 February 2021, 09:52:29
My take on how the MH deals with it is skilled labor for  military and high tech and slave labor for farming, mining, and homes of the upper echelon.

There is still a large number of citizens that will need jobs. Most Marian citizens can not afford slaves. So the actual number of slaves should be relatively small.

I would like to see a abolitionist movement rise and end slavery in the MH. Something to give a more fleshed out story.

Hopefully we will get some new fluff on the periphery powers in upcoming source books.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 February 2021, 18:27:18
It's worth pointing out that economies that run on slave production massively hamper the quality of goods they produce as well as their technical knowledge as a portion of their population that could be gaining technological sophistication must instead be constantly watched for signs of rebellion.

Just as an example, who do you allow to produce explosives? If it's slaves then how do you keep them from either sabotaging it or stealing it? If not slaves then where are you effectively taking skilled workers from?

For me a large portion of why the Hegemony has a hard time (though I'm still sore about the pointlessness of the attack on the Reformed FWL) is that the Hegemony has tied its economy to a model that is massively inefficient and technologically incompetent, it is honestly majorly impressive that the Hegemony produces and designs it's own BA given the general technological competence across all levels of society that are required.

The issue is that the Factorys' workforce is not slave labor, in the Hadrian fluff it tells you clearly, that the recurring problem for the company's board of directors was the continuous underhand negotiations with the mafia they controlled the incipient guilds of factory employees

I agree with Saint, there must be mainly slaves in mines and fields, plus domestic slaves with whom there are extremely harsh rules about their mistreatment from the time of Julius as it is well explained in Major Periphery States.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: vaderi on 13 February 2021, 21:33:46
My take on how the MH deals with it is skilled labor for  military and high tech and slave labor for farming, mining, and homes of the upper echelon.

There is still a large number of citizens that will need jobs. Most Marian citizens can not afford slaves. So the actual number of slaves should be relatively small.

I would like to see a abolitionist movement rise and end slavery in the MH. Something to give a more fleshed out story.

Hopefully we will get some new fluff on the periphery powers in upcoming source books.

Slave economies don't function at all if there are a "small" number of slaves. For perspective, (not to make a point about slavery in real life) the US population in 1790 was ~18% slaves(or 1 in 6 people). Now that's with extremely shitty tech by Battletech standards but either you are having slaves use tech and techniques on par with the 1790s or you've invented some way to stop slave revolts from happening.

Skilled labor is important and all but requires that you pay it, which is as Adacas points out where graft and corruption spill in, and since they have modeled themselves culturally and socially after Rome, the Marians seem to have many of the same issues handling corruption that the Romans did. So we're left with an economy crippled by a dependence on slaves for agricultural and mineral wealth, and by systemic corruption in its skilled labor force. It's frankly amazing that the Marians have done as much as they have.

I too would like to see an abolitionist movement in the MH.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 13 February 2021, 22:18:15
It is worth noting that the Hegemony is predominantly Christian, followed by Judaism, Islam and Agnostic. While Roman classical religion is there, it is only a minority.

The slave class would be small and not a major issue because the first 3 religions that come from 21st-century Terra does not practice slavery, especially Christians.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: vaderi on 13 February 2021, 22:52:53
It is worth noting that the Hegemony is predominantly Christian, followed by Judaism, Islam and Agnostic. While Roman classical religion is there, it is only a minority.

The slave class would be small and not a major issue because the first 3 religions that come from 21st-century Terra does not practice slavery, especially Christians.


...  ???
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Elmoth on 14 February 2021, 04:38:04
Slavery is an issue in the MH. It is o e of the main reasons I dislike the faction and do not consider it a viable PC option.

The population CNA be small or.large, we do not know. There are methods to prevent uprisings: monopoly in mechs and other items of war, basically. The Romans had a lot of slaves, they just were not part of some key tech bases they were using. But for primary production they were widely used.

Slavery does not mean galleys either. There were a lot of Greek teachers in Rome that were technically slaves, for example, so not all slaves will be low class either.

There had been Christian and other religion slaves across history. Medieval Serfs were slaves by all accounts, for example. So I do not buy that religion approach much, really.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 14 February 2021, 11:51:33
Slavery does not mean galleys either.

It almost never did in Roman or Greek antiquity, either. Galley rowers were highly skilled and respected tradesmen, well paid for their work. Only in extreme circumstances were slaves used, and they were freed either immediately before or after. It makes absolutely zero sense for 90% of a vessel's crew to be enslaved(and by necessity, healthy ones with lots of muscle mass). The other 10% would be pretty much guaranteed to be dead by the time the ship next pulled ashore.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jimdigris on 14 February 2021, 18:09:57
The notion that galleys were manned by slaves is more Hollywood fantasy than historical fact.  The same is true for the builders of the pyramids, not that they were Roman.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 14 February 2021, 20:25:36
I'm not condoning the practice whatsoever, but it can safely be said that any slaver nation either keeps theirs away from skilled jobs, or pays dearly for their mistake.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 February 2021, 10:29:25
All i can say about slavery in the MH is....read the HB:MPS. There you have a nice detailed recount of the marian social classes and how slaves are treated. And no, its not like the slave history of the USA. Its more like the romans slavery. That means that while you are a possesion of your owner, he can not do whatever he wants with you, and you even have the oportunity to become a citizen, or your children. During its fundational years was more akin to indentured servitude, it became much worse with Sean, and much much better with Julius. We know little of what happened with later Cesars.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 16 February 2021, 10:48:02
Not only that, reading a little from the HBS Mayor Periphery States they tell you that even the slaves of the lowest stratum can buy their freedom by paying for it by going to join the ranks of the commoners, which resembles the Debt Slavery that existed in the Republic. / High Roman Empire.
It would be nice to see in what the MH will write about a compulsive nationalization in the style of the Carcalla Decree, which in case you don't know was the largest regularization from non-citizens to citizens in history. Approximately 30/35 million commoners throughout the empire were made citizens in one day
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 16 February 2021, 23:43:53
So if the situation gets desperate for the Marians, they can free their slaves to raise more auxilia.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 17 February 2021, 00:59:18
If they were Centuries or Legions of Slaves that became commoners a reasonable time ago it may be acceptable, arming free slaves from 5 hours ago I don't see it very interesting and I would even say dangerous
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 17 February 2021, 12:11:25
Out of curiosity, how does citizenship work in the Hegemony? Are all non-slaves citizens(aside from foreign residents obviously), or are there requirements, and there exists a category of free non-citizens?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 17 February 2021, 12:35:43
Out of curiosity, how does citizenship work in the Hegemony? Are all non-slaves citizens(aside from foreign residents obviously), or are there requirements, and there exists a category of free non-citizens?

Citizens are all those born in the Marian Hegemony whether they are Patricians or Plebeians, also those who are naturalized, the Patricians elect the Senate and the Commoners elect their chamber that I do not remember what it is called and the Senate designates the Tribunes of the Plebe figure created in Julius O'Really times.

Both Plebeys and Patricians are members of the MHAF, the Collegium Bellorum is joined by patricians or commoners backed by a Patrician Family.

Citizens of the Illyria Province are citizens with the right to elect senators from 3080 or so and the marik / circinian worlds annexed not much later than they
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 17 February 2021, 12:49:07
So aside from slaves, the Hegemony has universal citizenship. Gotcha.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 17 February 2021, 13:41:59
So aside from slaves, the Hegemony has universal citizenship. Gotcha.

Exactly, and even slaves who do not have a cause to be slaves such as treason or some blood crime, can buy their freedom and become a plebeian , which sooner or later transforms them into a citizen.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 17 February 2021, 19:58:50
If they were Centuries or Legions of Slaves that became commoners a reasonable time ago it may be acceptable, arming free slaves from 5 hours ago I don't see it very interesting and I would even say dangerous

It would be dangerous to see them form fifth columns in any foreign occupation of the Hegemony like in current canon
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 17 February 2021, 20:14:18
It would be dangerous to see them form fifth columns in any foreign occupation of the Hegemony like in current canon

Libertas Police that would dedicate itself to steal or kill an occupier's terror troop, that is why it would only accept ex-slaves who will buy their freedom, unless we are talking about sending them to the front to stop the enemy bullets
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 18 February 2021, 08:17:12
Cannon fodder Auxilia would be quite Capellan or Kuritan to employ
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Metallgewitter on 18 February 2021, 12:59:17
Cannon fodder Auxilia would be quite Capellan or Kuritan to employ

I thought the Hegemony has the Cohors Morituris for their cannonfodder unit. At least from what I understand. They are usually thrown against any opponent regardless how strong.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 18 February 2021, 13:09:55
I thought the Hegemony has the Cohors Morituris for their cannonfodder unit. At least from what I understand. They are usually thrown against any opponent regardless how strong.

More than that is a special unit, the Veterania never drops from Veteran and Fanatic morale lately, I think that sooner rather than later it will transform into a different unit and being something like the Legion of Vega for the Condominium, Free Slave Troops could well be cannon fodder troops
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Starfury on 19 February 2021, 03:12:19
The Cohors Morituri are made up of condemned prisoners that are convicted of heinous crimes.  They're similar to various penal divisions throughout history and fiction, but with Mechs (not dissimilar to the penal infantry Legions of TOG from Renegade Legion). It will be interesting to see what Auxilia and new Legions the Hegemony can pull up to dislodge the Duchy of Tamarind Abbey/FWL units that currently have control of the Ilyrian province.  An entire novel series about the Cohors Morituri and further Marian lenal Cohorts would make a nice change from Clans vs the Houses in the next round of IS musical chairs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 19 February 2021, 07:37:46
Yes, it would be nice to have a novel series from the Marian Legions'/Cohors Morituri POV.

The interesting thing is, for a penal unit they have always maintained high cohesion and given exemplary performances. They are even given Mechs(perhaps rigged with kill-switches). The Marian Hegemony has BT's Suicide Squad :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Metallgewitter on 19 February 2021, 08:37:20
Yes, it would be nice to have a novel series from the Marian Legions'/Cohors Morituri POV.

The interesting thing is, for a penal unit they have always maintained high cohesion and given exemplary performances. They are even given Mechs(perhaps rigged with kill-switches). The Marian Hegemony has BT's Suicide Squad :)

Or disabled ejection seats. Blowing up the Mech comes when the pilot is about to be captured to increase enemy casulties
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 19 February 2021, 09:46:13
The Cohors Morituri are made up of condemned prisoners that are convicted of heinous crimes.  They're similar to various penal divisions throughout history and fiction, but with Mechs (not dissimilar to the penal infantry Legions of TOG from Renegade Legion). It will be interesting to see what Auxilia and new Legions the Hegemony can pull up to dislodge the Duchy of Tamarind Abbey/FWL units that currently have control of the Ilyrian province.  An entire novel series about the Cohors Morituri and further Marian lenal Cohorts would make a nice change from Clans vs the Houses in the next round of IS musical chairs.

It would definitely be a good agenda for novels that, as for the Cohors Mortuori, I think that those who are sent there meet condens for political issues and crimes in the MHAF, in 3150 I think that more than a Cohort is almost two Cohors in size
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 19 February 2021, 20:41:14
Or disabled ejection seats. Blowing up the Mech comes when the pilot is about to be captured to increase enemy casulties

However, MechWarriors are hard to come by in the Dark Age in addition to the usual conservation of Mechs. It's hard to justify this tactic even in a penal unit. Perhaps they are "resocialized" like SC Terran Marines. Or the kill switch merely makes a mutinous MechWarrior unconscious while preserving the Mech.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 21 February 2021, 17:13:44
It’s been a while since I read HB:MPS, and I don’t have my books on me, but IIRC Marian slaves are largely POWs, which I would think tends to suggest they make up a relatively small percentage of the population.  Given the transportation constraints in BT, the Marians can’t be taking *that* many prisoners on raids.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Metallgewitter on 22 February 2021, 07:46:09
It’s been a while since I read HB:MPS, and I don’t have my books on me, but IIRC Marian slaves are largely POWs, which I would think tends to suggest they make up a relatively small percentage of the population.  Given the transportation constraints in BT, the Marians can’t be taking *that* many prisoners on raids.

According to the Handbook for the Periphery the early slaves were immigrants who basically "loaned themselves out" to earn a living. From there they had the good chance to bcome Plebeians and then maybe even Patricians.
The "second generation" are more likely victims of Marian slave raids (more often then not Canopians I would guess). Of course POW could also be possible (especially during the conquest of the Lothian League or Ilyrian Palatinate.
And not to forget childen of slaves are also slaves and Marians can also fall into slavery due to poverty or what have you.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 February 2021, 09:09:40
According to the Handbook for the Periphery the early slaves were immigrants who basically "loaned themselves out" to earn a living. From there they had the good chance to bcome Plebeians and then maybe even Patricians.
The "second generation" are more likely victims of Marian slave raids (more often then not Canopians I would guess). Of course POW could also be possible (especially during the conquest of the Lothian League or Ilyrian Palatinate.
And not to forget childen of slaves are also slaves and Marians can also fall into slavery due to poverty or what have you.

The Marians the only option to fall into a certain slavery is due to debt, and the most violent case could be, for example, a patrician house discovered betraying the Throne, just as Arkansas Warrior says the number of slaves is lower, in the cities the vast majority of the labor force is commoners, and in the fields or the mines there may be slaves in large state farms or in some large patrician family.
I estimate that in the cities there could be a good number of pleasure slaves trafficked from the most diverse origin
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 05 March 2021, 09:27:34
Well we finally got a new variant of the Centurion in TRO: Irregulars. Being a Industrial mech/ Militiamech fan I am over joyed to get something form the Marian Hegemony. I really can't decide if I like the H2H or H3 better. What's your thoughts?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 05 March 2021, 10:05:40
It should have been a BattleMech employing standard tech, if not SL/Jihad/Dark Age tech.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 05 March 2021, 10:21:27
It should have been a BattleMech employing standard tech, if not SL/Jihad/Dark Age tech.
It was a great business move , but maybe we will see something in a recognition guide with higher tech.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 March 2021, 10:52:07
It was a great business move , but maybe we will see something in a recognition guide with higher tech.

As a militia, or training mech I take it from you, but it really seems quite unfortunate that in the first and second versions they did not have an ejection system, when those systems were manufactured for the Locust and the Commando since 3067, and by the same factory .

As for something produced in the Hegemony in the Rec Guides I highly doubt it
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 05 March 2021, 11:06:08
It should have been a BattleMech employing standard tech, if not SL/Jihad/Dark Age tech.

There's nothing saying the Hegemony doesn't build full BattleMechs. The fact that these mechs are only described as being sent to militia units(aside from the HE) implies they don't need to issue them to the regular Legions, meaning they have access to better.

I'm still glad that the Hegemony has their own tech base, instead of playing just like everybody else on the tabletop. Interesting is always better than merely advanced.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 March 2021, 11:11:50
Considering the product it came out in, at least it was something, and shows a expansion in the production of at least 50t primitive mech components which was one of the points discussed earlier.  But there is still hope, the Magistry got a Shadow Hawk version, we still have plenty of old standards left to go- including the Centurion!

Not sure how many Classic/KS heavy mechs are left . . . I know the TBolt (because I am waiting for Tikonov's 12R) but the Archer, Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman, Catapult, and Cataphract have been done . . . leaves the Crusader too.  So still a few options for the Marians to get a heavy.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 March 2021, 11:43:36
There's nothing saying the Hegemony doesn't build full BattleMechs. The fact that these mechs are only described as being sent to militia units(aside from the HE) implies they don't need to issue them to the regular Legions, meaning they have access to better.

I'm still glad that the Hegemony has their own tech base, instead of playing just like everybody else on the tabletop. Interesting is always better than merely advanced.

I'm sorry to contradict you, but in the fluff they comment that if they give those mechs to the MHAF not only to Militias, it is more they highlight their delivery to the III Legio and that there is no Marian force without at least one Maniple of these Centurions.

As for making complete mechs and with a certain tech at the moment the only thing confirmed is the Locust and Commando built from 3060/70, everything else commented on Primitives or Retrotech or now MilitiaMech
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 March 2021, 11:58:23
I think this is getting into a language problem.  So, afawk in 3145 the Hegemony makes- IndiMech Centurions, Centurion 9H, and Centurion 9rs?  Weirdo was not saying they quit sending CN9-H to the Legions, but that from the sound, the fluff says the IndiMech Centurions are sold to client states and used by the Legions in training environments.

I am hoping they get a heavy . . . pretty sure the MoC got a Classic confirmed, the Taurians got the Marauder 2R and follow up 2T along with a Warhammer.  MoC did get that Shadow Hawk like I mentioned though I do not recall if they were getting any other meds or the Taurians did.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 March 2021, 11:59:55
Considering the product it came out in, at least it was something, and shows a expansion in the production of at least 50t primitive mech components which was one of the points discussed earlier.  But there is still hope, the Magistry got a Shadow Hawk version, we still have plenty of old standards left to go- including the Centurion!

Not sure how many Classic/KS heavy mechs are left . . . I know the TBolt (because I am waiting for Tikonov's 12R) but the Archer, Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman, Catapult, and Cataphract have been done . . . leaves the Crusader too.  So still a few options for the Marians to get a heavy.

If apparently some in the line of the medium progress seem to want to show, looking at the MUL they replaced the entire line of Primitive Mech in Dark Age that they had told us we did in previous books
Icarus / Gladiator / Centurion / Emperor in their Primitives variants, but the strange thing that the modern or traditional versions were also put on, hopefully Receive some of those modernized models, another fact that seems strange to me is the great variety of Firestarter not only the old designs and classic but variants of the new design.

As for heavier designs we will see if we receive any of them although I have my doubts
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 March 2021, 12:07:58
I think this is getting into a language problem.  So, afawk in 3145 the Hegemony makes- IndiMech Centurions, Centurion 9H, and Centurion 9rs?  Weirdo was not saying they quit sending CN9-H to the Legions, but that from the sound, the fluff says the IndiMech Centurions are sold to client states and used by the Legions in training environments.

I am hoping they get a heavy . . . pretty sure the MoC got a Classic confirmed, the Taurians got the Marauder 2R and follow up 2T along with a Warhammer.  MoC did get that Shadow Hawk like I mentioned though I do not recall if they were getting any other meds or the Taurians did.

Look what I read in the Fluff is that the three Centurion designs are manufactured with different qualities of material, all three are militiamech, although the more modern design I think the H3H is almost almost a mech in its own right with Ferrofiber, ejection system and UCA / 10, in addition to the ubiquitous RL, to that version more than Militiamech and I would elevate it to a local version of Centurion with RL, a mech between Tech 3039 and tech SL (for the UCA / 10 and the Armor)

The thing about the militia mechs sold to the Independent Marik Planets, could have been a good move but I don't see rebel movements for hegemony of some of those worlds in which these political / cultural / military moves have been made, so at the moment I don't see what that policy has achieved something
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 March 2021, 13:30:52
I do not have the book, so I was just comparing whatever was in Irregulars, the CN9-H and the CN9-Ar (HPPC/LPPC Jihad version).  The last one is SW level chassis just has the Heavy/Light PPCs as a difference.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 March 2021, 13:47:16
I do not have the book, so I was just comparing whatever was in Irregulars, the CN9-H and the CN9-Ar (HPPC/LPPC Jihad version).  The last one is SW level chassis just has the Heavy/Light PPCs as a difference.

In the Militiamech Versions of Irregulars

Version 1 CN9-H2 is all Industrial Chassis created in the Hegemony, LBX-10 2 medium lasers and RL
The Version 2 CN9-H2H I think they do an improvement to put an ejection system and little else
The Version 3 CN9-H3H is the one that receives the most technological improvement and it is made at a time when the Testudo is already being built since it receives its FF armor from the same factory, replaces the LBX10 with an Ultra / 10, and does not say anything else. so I calculate it will keep the lasers and the RL
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 March 2021, 14:21:46
Ok, so the H2 is absolutely a trainer . . . the H2H is a upgrade to what was given before, and the H3H is a further improvement.

I am really digging the idea of Marian legions being filled with Centurions.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 March 2021, 14:24:50
Ok, so the H2 is absolutely a trainer . . . the H2H is a upgrade to what was given before, and the H3H is a further improvement.

I am really digging the idea of Marian legions being filled with Centurions.

As long as they are mech and not militiamech I do not object, according to the fluff of the H3H they provided those mechs to the III Legio, so I have no idea if it is a Militiamech.


The only thing that could be said in favor is that from what the Fluff says, the Sales team of Marian Arms and ATC have very long arms and connections, exporting H2H as far as Irian, and making all planetary militia of the independent marik worlds have an assortment of CN9-H2 and H2H wholesale, and that this happened even with the opposition of the Rim Commonality, apparently the Ignatius Woman's Family collaborated in the distribution and sale and are more loyal among yes, your pockets
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 05 March 2021, 14:35:07
Has anyone tried these machines out yet against likely opponents? Obviously you can't just go one-for-one, but what happens if you build an OPFOR and then take Centurions until the BVs match? Do they work well in large groups?

If not these, how about the base -H model we've had for a while now?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 March 2021, 14:45:45
A Centurions surge might work, but it depends on many factors

What is the mission is the first factor
How is the enemy made up?
What level of Veteran is the enemy and what are your pilots?
Ground

If the terrain is urban, your veteran pilots, the green enemy, you may have a chance to win
If it's open terrain and the pilots' experience level is balanced and they have a couple of mechs flanking the enemy, I don't think they have too many Chances, they are moderately slow and they don't have jumpjets.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 05 March 2021, 15:28:08
I am really digging the idea of Marian legions being filled with Centurions.
They need some Legionnaires for the Centurions to lead.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 March 2021, 17:13:18
Give me some good Gladiators and Icarus as an accompaniment and some Cataprachti would look good more
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 05 March 2021, 17:50:51
Since we're just testing out the machines, assume identical pilot skills, and generic maps, nothing specialized. I'm solely asking about their performance when you just smash some mechs together, nothing fancy.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 March 2021, 18:26:41
Since we're just testing out the machines, assume identical pilot skills, and generic maps, nothing specialized. I'm solely asking about their performance when you just smash some mechs together, nothing fancy.

Humm the retrotech I tried it a bit and it did not tell me anything, I tested it with 4/5 pilots, in a generic map using a maniple of 3 Centurions and 2 Withworth survived a Withworh and a Centurion this very damaged, on the other side there were four chosen mechs From the list of Marik mechs (the one used by the Protectors, I don't remember what it is), one fell from the spear and two were damaged, the spear was a Bloodhound, an Eagle, a Trebuchet and a Shadow Hawk

I am left wondering whether to test it in closed terrain, be it closed forest or urban terrain, that's why I put it in the other post, the next opportunity I will try using an amniple with the 4 Retrotech designs and the three Militiamech accompanied by some mech of more command weight.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 06 March 2021, 01:26:42
There's nothing saying the Hegemony doesn't build full BattleMechs. The fact that these mechs are only described as being sent to militia units(aside from the HE) implies they don't need to issue them to the regular Legions, meaning they have access to better.

I'm still glad that the Hegemony has their own tech base, instead of playing just like everybody else on the tabletop. Interesting is always better than merely advanced.

RLs can only have so much mileage before ceasing to have an effect.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 07 March 2021, 00:20:58
I have a minor question.

I'm putting a new version of a MH DA Cohort and so I need some help.

Running a Maniple of Infantry" Century of BA and another of Foot Platoon, Rifle.

Maniple of consisting of 4 Prowler Support and a Prowler ECM. ( Still looking for other vehicles... )

But my question is about mechs.

So far I am running a Marauder II-4H, a Hermit Crab-15, a pair of Razorback-9T's and a single Centrurion-10J in the first Century.

But the Second I'm having trouble with, I want to include more of a Indirect firesupport Century, but with some shortrange firepower.

Any suggestions?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 07 March 2021, 07:48:26
Hmm
How about
Archer 4M
Dervish 6Mr
Apollo 1M
Hunchback 4J
Brigand, Locust, or Commando for a spotter.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Ruger on 07 March 2021, 09:56:02
RLs can only have so much mileage before ceasing to have an effect.

That’s one of the reasons I’m so wanting to love the Marian Centurions, but finding it hard to do so.

Maybe if they had LRM-5’s or better yet, MML-5’s.

Ruger
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 07 March 2021, 12:24:06
RLs can only have so much mileage before ceasing to have an effect.

I have no clue what this post is trying to say in response to the post it is quoting.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 07 March 2021, 15:58:18
I have a minor question.

I'm putting a new version of a MH DA Cohort and so I need some help.

Running a Maniple of Infantry" Century of BA and another of Foot Platoon, Rifle.

Maniple of consisting of 4 Prowler Support and a Prowler ECM. ( Still looking for other vehicles... )

But my question is about mechs.

So far I am running a Marauder II-4H, a Hermit Crab-15, a pair of Razorback-9T's and a single Centrurion-10J in the first Century.

But the Second I'm having trouble with, I want to include more of a Indirect firesupport Century, but with some shortrange firepower.

Any suggestions?

TT
Does it have to be Mechs? A Century or Testudos would be pretty much perfect for that description.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 07 March 2021, 21:19:16
Does it have to be Mechs? A Century or Testudos would be pretty much perfect for that description.

Very tempting, but over heavy on munch.

I want to enjoy my destructions, not murder the terrain.

5 Myrmidon w/ LRM Gun Trailers?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Ruger on 07 March 2021, 22:13:08
Very tempting, but over heavy on munch.

I want to enjoy my destructions, not murder the terrain.

5 Myrmidon w/ LRM Gun Trailers?

TT

Could always do a mix of Whitworth and/or Trebuchet BattleMechs. Lots of LRM’s and medium lasers.

Ruger
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 07 March 2021, 22:36:10
Archer-8M
Archer-8M
Trebuchet-7M
Dervish-6Mr
Cyclops-11-H

Or is that to weird?

Looking for " Old, but not obsolete. "

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 08 March 2021, 02:35:42
I have no clue what this post is trying to say in response to the post it is quoting.

By saying the Hegemony has its own tech base, do you mean the RL spam and low tech?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 08 March 2021, 02:38:05
That’s one of the reasons I’m so wanting to love the Marian Centurions, but finding it hard to do so.

Maybe if they had LRM-5’s or better yet, MML-5’s.

Ruger

MMLs would be nice and easy to retrofit.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Ruger on 08 March 2021, 05:50:22
MMLs would be nice and easy to retrofit.

I got to thinking about that. Maybe MRM’s would actually be the better and more logical upgrade to the rocket launchers?

Ruger
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 08 March 2021, 08:38:46
By saying the Hegemony has its own tech base, do you mean the RL spam and low tech?

Rockets are fun for flavor, but I'm specifically referring to the Hegemony's mix of primitive, intro, and modern tech. Once the desperation of the Jihad ended no other large power had such a diverse tech base, meaning Marian forces are unique on the tabletop. This uniqueness is the only thing that really prevents them from being ’just another non-Clan faction, it doesn't matter which you choose'.

The Escorpion Imperio was in the same boat for a while, but by the time they switched to a more tolerable name they'd also homogenized themselves into utter blandness, being largely indistinguishable from any 3050s Clan. It is my hope that the Marian Hegemony avoids this fate.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 March 2021, 10:28:46
a single Centrurion-10J in the first Century.

Huh?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 08 March 2021, 13:18:22
Archer-8M
Archer-8M
Trebuchet-7M
Dervish-6Mr
Cyclops-11-H

Or is that to weird?

Looking for " Old, but not obsolete. "

TT
Not bad.  I might look at swapping the Archers for Orions to beef up the short range punch a little.  ON1-Ms are a century old at this point, but still pack an LRM-20 each, plus NARC and an LBX10.  Don’t like NARC? The -MA uses Artemis instead.  Want to boost the long-range lunch a bit? The -MB trades the AC for an LGR.  More short range punch? The -MD carries a RAC-5 instead of the LBX.  Mix and match if you like.  Being close to the FWL, century-old used Orion’s ought to be easy to come by.


In the same vein, the ON2-M came out early in the FCCW and carries an LRM-15 w/Artemis and a Gauss Rifle.  The ARC-8M is a really nice Archer, though.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Warship on 08 March 2021, 19:02:21
What is the Centrurion-10J?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 08 March 2021, 19:06:37
What is the Centrurion-10J?

its one from Shrapnel #2
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 March 2021, 21:14:20
AH yeah, I thought I had seen it and i was flipping through- I knew it was in reference to a MCG variant that got canonized.  But I knew the RecGuides had not done Centurions.

But it is also going to be a rare bird for the Hegemony . . . especially since it is a different chassis than what they make.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 08 March 2021, 21:38:01
Huh?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/7696?skill=4 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/7696?skill=4)
Shrapnel #2

Keeping the Centurion as the only advanced unit in this unit.

But I did think of the Orions... but they don't have that long punch that the other LRM carriers have...

Also, the 'Bucket and Dervish jump with the 'Bucket using the Narc and the Dervish in bodyguard role. Both can backstab if they need too. Gonna run the Cyclops most of the time under called in ' Light Metal Rain '.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 09 March 2021, 02:11:51
I got to thinking about that. Maybe MRM’s would actually be the better and more logical upgrade to the rocket launchers?

Ruger

Although they don't have the utility of MMLs, agreed that MRMs are the better and logical upgrade to RLs. The bigger racks can really hurt.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 09 March 2021, 02:12:51
Rockets are fun for flavor, but I'm specifically referring to the Hegemony's mix of primitive, intro, and modern tech. Once the desperation of the Jihad ended no other large power had such a diverse tech base, meaning Marian forces are unique on the tabletop. This uniqueness is the only thing that really prevents them from being ’just another non-Clan faction, it doesn't matter which you choose'.

The Escorpion Imperio was in the same boat for a while, but by the time they switched to a more tolerable name they'd also homogenized themselves into utter blandness, being largely indistinguishable from any 3050s Clan. It is my hope that the Marian Hegemony avoids this fate.

YMMV. Modernizing is the only way for the Hegemony to survive.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 09 March 2021, 10:12:57
No, writers are how they survive, just like everybody else. It is perfectly possible for the writers to keep the Marians around and have them retain a unique tech base, all they have to do is say so.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 09 March 2021, 16:09:25
Rockets are fun for flavor, but I'm specifically referring to the Hegemony's mix of primitive, intro, and modern tech. Once the desperation of the Jihad ended no other large power had such a diverse tech base, meaning Marian forces are unique on the tabletop. This uniqueness is the only thing that really prevents them from being ’just another non-Clan faction, it doesn't matter which you choose'.

The Escorpion Imperio was in the same boat for a while, but by the time they switched to a more tolerable name they'd also homogenized themselves into utter blandness, being largely indistinguishable from any 3050s Clan. It is my hope that the Marian Hegemony avoids this fate.


All good with the technological diversity that you express, but persevering on a path that perpetuates you in a vision of technological backwardness just because you are not equal to the others sooner rather than later will take its toll on the battlefield.

I believe that the first evolution from the RL would be to advance towards the MRM and from there to the MML, although the Hegemony was testing the Tech of the MML in the Land Train around 3070/80
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 10 March 2021, 01:54:11

All good with the technological diversity that you express, but persevering on a path that perpetuates you in a vision of technological backwardness just because you are not equal to the others sooner rather than later will take its toll on the battlefield.

I believe that the first evolution from the RL would be to advance towards the MRM and from there to the MML, although the Hegemony was testing the Tech of the MML in the Land Train around 3070/80

Yes. Progress in slow, measured steps is better than stagnation. Even Randis is able to build MMLs by the Dark Age.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 March 2021, 10:06:16
Yes. Progress in slow, measured steps is better than stagnation. Even Randis is able to build MMLs by the Dark Age.

Or importing them from Filtvelt.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 10 March 2021, 10:14:46
Or importing them from Filtvelt.

Perhaps, but perhaps that would also be something interesting to see if the MML and Hvoc the Hegemony in 3070/80 could get them and test them in an experimental way, I find it strange that the Hegemony does not have the possibility of maintaining lines of trade when we see that at the time of the Dark Age sold equipment all over marik space and even factions within the Republic
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 11 March 2021, 02:00:15
Agreed. Every country relies on its economy for survival and prosperity. For their soft power approach to work, the Hegemony will have to build a strong trade network and get a healthy economy going.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Metallgewitter on 12 March 2021, 08:37:42
The Hegemony waged two wars for it's breakaway province though (and they lost 2 Caesars in the process). Those wars probably sucked a lot of resources that could have been used better if they had been invested into R&D.
Not to mention they only managed to build their own Mechs after the Jihad (at least that is my impression maybe that is wrong because I get conflicting lore in regards to the Phoenix Locust)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 12 March 2021, 09:20:29
They waged those counter-insurgency operations while simultaneously doing R&D.

The Hegemony started building the Locust in 3067.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 12 March 2021, 09:30:31
He's saying that due to the ongoing wars, enough resources could have been pulled away that said R&D happened at a snail's pace. We can't say for sure, but it does sound plausible to me.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 March 2021, 10:33:23
He's saying that due to the ongoing wars, enough resources could have been pulled away that said R&D happened at a snail's pace. We can't say for sure, but it does sound plausible to me.

Considering that part I quoted about how the current Caeser's forces had finally recovered their losses from his father's time (3107?) in . . . 3130s?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 March 2021, 10:49:17
The Hegemony waged two wars for it's breakaway province though (and they lost 2 Caesars in the process). Those wars probably sucked a lot of resources that could have been used better if they had been invested into R&D.
Not to mention they only managed to build their own Mechs after the Jihad (at least that is my impression maybe that is wrong because I get conflicting lore in regards to the Phoenix Locust)

The Locust 1V2 is built by the Hegemony since 3067 as well as the Commando 4H if you want, look for the 3050 Update or Upgrades and you will see that there is no doubt or discrepancy about what those versions are built in the Hegemony since 3067/68, also the Hegemony modifies and makes the Withworth -1H and the Jagermech-H not wanting to see it, it is or not reading or not wanting to see it,

As for not doing R&D due to insurgency problems in Lothario, it is the most pathetic excuse I have read for not researching and developing by a state, if it were like that, no state of the Sphere or the periphery could have investigated anything
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 March 2021, 10:52:08
Considering that part I quoted about how the current Caeser's forces had finally recovered their losses from his father's time (3107?) in . . . 3130s?

Let's see it took 23 years to recover the losses suffered by his father? The Hegemony lost 3 Legions and I did not find out? The only legion that suffered some casualties, although more emotionally, was the I Legion, which is why it was sweeping the Border with the former worlds with Circinus since then.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 March 2021, 11:05:01
The Legions had been hammered in that region during the reign of two successive Caesers.  We have no indication they ever recovered from the losses taken when the first Caeser died, the only note is about recovering after the second's death.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 March 2021, 11:10:54
The only one that suffered casualties was the I Legio, and it says it in the same fluff of the Legio, if all the Legio had gotten into that insurgency, there would not be any surviving insurgents, the other Legio were on different fronts of combat
Read the fluff of the I Legio, there it is clear that just in 3130 the spirit of the legion is recovering from having lost two Cesars under his care, that is why they are stationed on the Frontier far from Alphard
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 12 March 2021, 11:49:07
As for not doing R&D due to insurgency problems in Lothario, it is the most pathetic excuse I have read for not researching and developing by a state, if it were like that, no state of the Sphere or the periphery could have investigated anything

*looks at the overall rate of technological advancement post-Star League*

You're exactly right. Welcome to Battletech. ^-^
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 March 2021, 12:11:05
The only one that suffered casualties was the I Legio, and it says it in the same fluff of the Legio, if all the Legio had gotten into that insurgency, there would not be any surviving insurgents, the other Legio were on different fronts of combat
Read the fluff of the I Legio, there it is clear that just in 3130 the spirit of the legion is recovering from having lost two Cesars under his care, that is why they are stationed on the Frontier far from Alphard

Adacas, in FM3145 in the two areas with the faction and faction military summary- not the unit summaries- it says the MHAF recovered from the fighting by 31xx, which was 10-20 years after the loss of the Caeser . . . additionally, while only one Legion may have been involved in the fighting does not mean the other Legions got off with no repercussions.  Units that are not involved in the active theatre tend to-
not get replacement troops
not get replacement gear
get shorted on spare parts
get shorted on ammo
will get drafts for replacement troops/gear to the engaged formation

Okay, specifically in FM315, p184 . . . 'While the loss of the V Legion & Lothian League has yet to be recovered, . . . ' which was in '87, and formalized in 3128.  p196 says since 3128's loss the Legions 'have only just begun to recover' which would be 3145.  The fact the MH had purchasing teams across the IS buying any gear they could, no matter how bad the salvage quality of it, also indicates their desire for additional equipment.

And while we do not have details about it, some point between the end of the Jihad and 3130s the MHAF had fought with either MoC or Rim Commonality over Astrokasy that ended up with the world in the Rim's hands.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 March 2021, 14:20:20
Adacas, in FM3145 in the two areas with the faction and faction military summary- not the unit summaries- it says the MHAF recovered from the fighting by 31xx, which was 10-20 years after the loss of the Caeser . . . additionally, while only one Legion may have been involved in the fighting does not mean the other Legions got off with no repercussions.  Units that are not involved in the active theatre tend to-
not get replacement troops
not get replacement gear
get shorted on spare parts
get shorted on ammo
will get drafts for replacement troops/gear to the engaged formation

Okay, specifically in FM315, p184 . . . 'While the loss of the V Legion & Lothian League has yet to be recovered, . . . ' which was in '87, and formalized in 3128.  p196 says since 3128's loss the Legions 'have only just begun to recover' which would be 3145.  The fact the MH had purchasing teams across the IS buying any gear they could, no matter how bad the salvage quality of it, also indicates their desire for additional equipment.

And while we do not have details about it, some point between the end of the Jihad and 3130s the MHAF had fought with either MoC or Rim Commonality over Astrokasy that ended up with the world in the Rim's hands.


Where in the Fluff do I talk about a fight for Astrokazy?

Let's see if you know, but in the military organization chart you don't skip your position where you are put in command because you are going to receive less or more equipment, but it is not a military organization.

The II Legio and the VI Legio were stacked in Illyria, the IV Legio in Alphard, the III as far as in the Province of Alphard until they sent it to replace the VI in Illyria because some of the VI traded info with the SAFE, now From the War in Lothario, the only thing we have is info on the I Legio and mercs (Fluff of the Gun), but that the War has consumed resources due to the Loss of the V Legio (His desertion bah) and damage to the I Legio ok , but to say that this consumed all the resources of the MHAF is even an exaggeration
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 March 2021, 14:42:18
Not sure you are understanding what I said about the formations not involved in the fighting getting neglected or used by their military to support the formations actually in combat. 

Personnel replacement is a balancing act for the pipeline . . . so instead of the graduating class of cadets being split evenly between the Legios, now every other Legio gets less replacement personnel because the Legio in action is getting the majority of replacements.  Usually the plans for replacement personnel are drawn up months or even years in advance.

I do not know what you mean by your last paragraph sentence.

To circle back to Astrokaszy . . . it just comes down to since the end of the Jihad, which itself damaged the MHAF, they have been in constant military adventurism.  Ignatius has scaled that back some until the FWL reformed which had allowed them to recover in roughly 3145 to pre 3100s & 3120s campaigns against the Lothians.  It clearly says they have not recovered to pre '87 Lothian Revolt levels.

The details on Astrokaszy have never been fully detailed, not even to a specific year just between 3075 to maybe 3100?  The action was treated as old news, the current leadership of the Rim Commonality did not seem to have been involved in the conflict..  I want to say the first ever mention was in a MWDA novel, either from the Rim Commonality's leader or head commander Choudra.  The MH was involved and I think the MoC was as well, with the Hegemony ejected IIRC and the implications is that the MoC came to terms with the RC since they would end the piracy off that world.  It is like 2 or 3 sentences and is referenced a bit later . . . but it was a loss for the Marians.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Metallgewitter on 12 March 2021, 14:51:25
The Locust 1V2 is built by the Hegemony since 3067 as well as the Commando 4H if you want, look for the 3050 Update or Upgrades and you will see that there is no doubt or discrepancy about what those versions are built in the Hegemony since 3067/68, also the Hegemony modifies and makes the Withworth -1H and the Jagermech-H not wanting to see it, it is or not reading or not wanting to see it,

As for not doing R&D due to insurgency problems in Lothario, it is the most pathetic excuse I have read for not researching and developing by a state, if it were like that, no state of the Sphere or the periphery could have investigated anything

The TRO Project Phoenix made it sound like as if the Mech facility in Hegemony space was more a rumor then fact (need to reread it though). And in Masters & Minions it did sound as if no big company in the Hegmony (ATC, Marian Arms, Hadrian) was producing Mechs. And there is one thing: after the Jihad the Hegemony was also quiet shaken. Open rebellion in the Lothario province, the 2nd Legion had just been nuked on San Nicolas while the other Legions were licking their wounds from the fighting). The Hegemony in itself has not much industry to speak of so I would assume that spending money on rebuilding rather then researching would slow the R&D down (not to mention that Alphard the center was hit hard during the Jihad).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 March 2021, 14:55:31
Not sure you are understanding what I said about the formations not involved in the fighting getting neglected or used by their military to support the formations actually in combat. 

Personnel replacement is a balancing act for the pipeline . . . so instead of the graduating class of cadets being split evenly between the Legios, now every other Legio gets less replacement personnel because the Legio in action is getting the majority of replacements.  Usually the plans for replacement personnel are drawn up months or even years in advance.

I do not know what you mean by your last paragraph sentence.

To circle back to Astrokaszy . . . it just comes down to since the end of the Jihad, which itself damaged the MHAF, they have been in constant military adventurism.  Ignatius has scaled that back some until the FWL reformed which had allowed them to recover in roughly 3145 to pre 3100s & 3120s campaigns against the Lothians.  It clearly says they have not recovered to pre '87 Lothian Revolt levels.

The details on Astrokaszy have never been fully detailed, not even to a specific year just between 3075 to maybe 3100?  The action was treated as old news, the current leadership of the Rim Commonality did not seem to have been involved in the conflict..  I want to say the first ever mention was in a MWDA novel, either from the Rim Commonality's leader or head commander Choudra.  The MH was involved and I think the MoC was as well, with the Hegemony ejected IIRC and the implications is that the MoC came to terms with the RC since they would end the piracy off that world.  It is like 2 or 3 sentences and is referenced a bit later . . . but it was a loss for the Marians.


Humm, how strange a novel in which the Marians are the useless baddies who bind all the blows ...

As for the hegemonic military "Aventurism" ..., the actions did not go beyond the Raids post 3090 when the II Legio sacked Kendall, after that there did not seem to be campaigns other than the plunder of resources and little else, the Lotharan Revolt does lose the V Legio that deserted although the deserters are reduced to less than two Cohorts and then the Hegemony becomes a military provider so they will not go much more than that.

Regarding the personnel, the I Legio and the II Legio always received more resources and better personnel than the rest, that is why in the III Legio and the IV and VI there are more commoners from the Champs de Mars than in the first two
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 March 2021, 15:05:38
The TRO Project Phoenix made it sound like as if the Mech facility in Hegemony space was more a rumor then fact (need to reread it though). And in Masters & Minions it did sound as if no big company in the Hegmony (ATC, Marian Arms, Hadrian) was producing Mechs. And there is one thing: after the Jihad the Hegemony was also quiet shaken. Open rebellion in the Lothario province, the 2nd Legion had just been nuked on San Nicolas while the other Legions were licking their wounds from the fighting). The Hegemony in itself has not much industry to speak of so I would assume that spending money on rebuilding rather then researching would slow the R&D down (not to mention that Alphard the center was hit hard during the Jihad).

You are in error and serious

Marian Arms during the Jihad produced Locust and Commando read the TRO 3050 Update there it specifies which designs you manufacture and which ones make versions of others (Withworth / Jagermech / Catapult and others)

Hadrian makes confirmed tanks and aerospace fighters, and look what madness not in Field Manual 3145 on the 4th of Tamarind Regulars wants to raid the mech depots and parts of a mech factory that is not there (Hadrian) Fluff of the IV Legio in that book

Marian Arms manufactures Locust and Commandos since 3067 (Nobody destroyed the factories), Cassius had a discussion with the old aunt Livia about ATC and why she did not manufacture mechs, discussion settled with the death of Aunt I suppose and the Mech Factory that opens in Addhara in 3090, so and all the Alphard ATC Factory collaborated with Marian Arms in the construction of the Centurion first version Retrotech and Second Militiamech


The Attack on Alphard is from 3074, that is, a lot of time passed and not all the R&D personnel are in Alphard, the BA is in Horatius and the Aero in Pompeii where the Shilone construction lines are, and as for those of Mechs weren't all in the same place

Another question, the best mech assembly and refurbishment group is the Techwizards Inc Company in Baccalieu, a planet that was never attacked.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 12 March 2021, 16:00:00
We're going in circles here. Let's look at this from another direction.

Adacas, the long period of time to rebuild the Legions and the extremely slow place of R&D are hard canon facts, not assertions that can be disputed. How do YOU explain them to your satisfaction?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 March 2021, 16:39:00

Humm, how strange a novel in which the Marians are the useless baddies who bind all the blows ...

As for the hegemonic military "Aventurism" ..., the actions did not go beyond the Raids post 3090 when the II Legio sacked Kendall, after that there did not seem to be campaigns other than the plunder of resources and little else, the Lotharan Revolt does lose the V Legio that deserted although the deserters are reduced to less than two Cohorts and then the Hegemony becomes a military provider so they will not go much more than that.

Regarding the personnel, the I Legio and the II Legio always received more resources and better personnel than the rest, that is why in the III Legio and the IV and VI there are more commoners from the Champs de Mars than in the first two

No, the two lines were throw away mentions to give them something instead of 80 years of silence.  No details ever came out about the specifics, the little bits later just filled it in a tad more- like the RC keeping control of the world.

Your Refurb facility?  Makes sense since that is where all the salvage and scrap the Marian purchasing teams are buying goes.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 March 2021, 17:38:29
No, the two lines were throw away mentions to give them something instead of 80 years of silence.  No details ever came out about the specifics, the little bits later just filled it in a tad more- like the RC keeping control of the world.

Your Refurb facility?  Makes sense since that is where all the salvage and scrap the Marian purchasing teams are buying goes.

You mean the Techwizards Baccalieu Facility? If they dedicate themselves to repairing the Salvage and making the H versions of RL
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 March 2021, 17:52:15
You mean the Techwizards Baccalieu Facility? If they dedicate themselves to repairing the Salvage and making the H versions of RL

Yes, it was one of the other bits in MWDA, maybe a touring the stars piece, talking about how the MH had purchasing teams buying up whatever they could even if it was in bad condition.  I think it just referred to Galatea, Arc Royal, Solaris VII or other merc worlds but it sounded like a long running practice.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 March 2021, 18:07:15
Yes, it was one of the other bits in MWDA, maybe a touring the stars piece, talking about how the MH had purchasing teams buying up whatever they could even if it was in bad condition.  I think it just referred to Galatea, Arc Royal, Solaris VII or other merc worlds but it sounded like a long running practice.

Techwizards have been the team of almost magician technicians who are omnipresent since the beginning of the Hegemony collecting all the mechs, tanks, aero that were recoverable from the battlefield, the first mention that I saw they believe was in Starcorps Dossiers.

So I would not be surprised in the least that they were part of those "recovery" teams by the IS, incidentally they could even buy on the black market, parts, weapons, whatever was interesting to buy or recover
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Metallgewitter on 13 March 2021, 12:10:24
Techwizards have been the team of almost magician technicians who are omnipresent since the beginning of the Hegemony collecting all the mechs, tanks, aero that were recoverable from the battlefield, the first mention that I saw they believe was in Starcorps Dossiers.

So I would not be surprised in the least that they were part of those "recovery" teams by the IS, incidentally they could even buy on the black market, parts, weapons, whatever was interesting to buy or recover

The FM Major Periphery powers had an entry for the TechWizards in the MH section. As you stated earlier this company was basically responsible for rebuilding salvaged military gear or even modify it. The TRO Project Phoenix has a H version of the Marauder 2. The entry said that the Lyrans lost a delivery of Marauder 2 chassis and I would assume those turned up in the Hegemony. And maybe the wizards decided to give those chassis a Marian touch (in essence lots of Rocket Launchers).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 13 March 2021, 13:35:16
The FM Major Periphery powers had an entry for the TechWizards in the MH section. As you stated earlier this company was basically responsible for rebuilding salvaged military gear or even modify it. The TRO Project Phoenix has a H version of the Marauder 2. The entry said that the Lyrans lost a delivery of Marauder 2 chassis and I would assume those turned up in the Hegemony. And maybe the wizards decided to give those chassis a Marian touch (in essence lots of Rocket Launchers).

It's a nice mech and I assume they've been getting more as its still on the MUL in dark ages.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 March 2021, 13:42:19
The FM Major Periphery powers had an entry for the TechWizards in the MH section. As you stated earlier this company was basically responsible for rebuilding salvaged military gear or even modify it. The TRO Project Phoenix has a H version of the Marauder 2. The entry said that the Lyrans lost a delivery of Marauder 2 chassis and I would assume those turned up in the Hegemony. And maybe the wizards decided to give those chassis a Marian touch (in essence lots of Rocket Launchers).

Too bad that just the MAD II and the Withworth H are built by the MAI according to The Objetives Raids The Periphery (2012), look for it there this
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 13 March 2021, 13:42:40
I rather like that MAD II, it makes a good command ride that stays at range but can defend itself nicely up close.

It's a nice mech and I assume they've been getting more as its still on the MUL in dark ages.

Either that, or the original batch is really durable. I have found them to be very hard to kill.

I've always assumed that the vast majority of those -H variants were refits of purchased or stolen/salvaged chasses. Was it ever explicitly stated that we build any of them from scratch?


... On a side note, I'm now imagining small independent Marian forces that travel across human space looking for active battles. They don't participate on either side, they just try to swoop in after the fact to grab a load of juicy salvage and make off with it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 13 March 2021, 13:57:21
I rather like that MAD II, it makes a good command ride that stays at range but can defend itself nicely up close.

Either that, or the original batch is really durable. I have found them to be very hard to kill.

I've always assumed that the vast majority of those -H variants were refits of purchased or stolen/salvaged chasses. Was it ever explicitly stated that we build any of them from scratch?


... On a side note, I'm now imagining small independent Marian forces that travel across human space looking for active battles. They don't participate on either side, they just try to swoop in after the fact to grab a load of juicy salvage and make off with it.
Oughta see if they could ‘acquire’ some Tonbos.  lol
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 13 March 2021, 13:58:25
I rather like that MAD II, it makes a good command ride that stays at range but can defend itself nicely up close.

Either that, or the original batch is really durable. I have found them to be very hard to kill.

I've always assumed that the vast majority of those -H variants were refits of purchased or stolen/salvaged chasses. Was it ever explicitly stated that we build any of them from scratch?

Still working on a long post Weirdo, but yes, there is at the very least one "H" mech said to be produced by the Marian hegemony, the Commando -4H, in TRO:3050U. And the Locust -1V2 is implied to be build in a "posible" factory in TRO:PP, as in some products set in the early Jihad, there were statements about a posible Marian factory making those Locusts. As i said, i will explain more when i finish in that post.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 March 2021, 14:22:06
Centurion H is too . . .

 . . . I will have to check the MWDA INN stuff, but it did talk about them having purchasing agents- why fruitlessly chase salvage when folks will bring it to you?

Only case I could see like that is operating off Arc Royal and following IS contracts to the JFOZ.  Not sure the risk would be worth the reward, especially if I was the contracted merc I would consider them pirates at best.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 13 March 2021, 14:36:38
Centurion H is too . . .

By "H" mechs i am refering to the line of mechs that appeared both in FM:P and TRO:PP using RL in masse. MOst seems to be refits like the MAD II and the Withworth, other still hold the question if they were just refits or locally produce full mechs like the Commando -4H or the locust -1V2. The CN9-H (and variants) appear much later.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 March 2021, 14:40:24
Of the H, those that according to the 3050U are made or refurbished in the Hegemony are apart from the Locust / Commando, they are the Withworth-H, the Jagermech-H and the Catapult H

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 13 March 2021, 14:59:32
I'd like go know which are absolutely known with zero possible doubt to be completely built by the Hegemony, as opposed to ones that might be merely refurbished.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 13 March 2021, 15:08:44
For that, we will need official word from TPTB, as there is contradictory and/or unclear lore. Authors from time to time used to clarify such occurrences.



I'd like go know which are absolutely known with zero possible doubt to be completely built by the Hegemony, as opposed to ones that might be merely refurbished.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 March 2021, 15:45:57
Centurion is the only one I think can be said to be home built . . . because it is the only one we were literally told was in the fluff.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 13 March 2021, 15:46:14
For the Hegemony, I always assume refit until proven to be local manufacture. Hence the question.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 13 March 2021, 16:36:04
For the Hegemony, I always assume refit until proven to be local manufacture. Hence the question.

I was planning to post this when i was finishing answering your arguments here (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/the-periphery/mars-rising-marian-hegemony-iv/msg1705270/#msg1705270), but well, this merits a partial answer:

OK, lets go piece by piece, as Jack used to say:

The question of the Marian Hegemony first Battlemech:

I would say we have two stages in this part, pre-Retrotech and post-retrotech. Let me explain.

Lets begin with FM: P (2002), set in 3064, that says that the MH does not have any mech factory.

The first mentions to the MH building mechs comes from three (technically) pre-Jihad books, the TRO:PP (2003), TRO:3050U (2007, set in 3071) and Tech Manual (2007). That rulebook, while not a lorebook, have in-book lore situated in 3071 that list the Locust as the first Marian Hegemony built mech in 3067. Meanwhile the first TRO mentioned set in-universe in 3067, and talks about “speculation and rumors” concerning a Marian mech factory as the origin of the Locust –1V2 seen in the Marian forces at the time. This last point is also mentioned IC in the Handbook: Major Periphery states (pag. 160). And the second TRO just states that the Commando-4H is produced by the Marian Hegemony (“...and the Marian Hegemony (who produce the COM-4H model)” - pag. 12).

Its interesting to add a further small mention in Mercenaries Supplemental Update (2006, set in 3069) that the Dragonslayers merc unit were stationed in Lindassa, garrisoning the planet while “the Marians finished building the new GM facility near Lissa.” (pag. 51). As far as i am aware, GM in the BT universe is General Motors Corporation, a huge corporation that produces from ICE and Fusion engines   to weapons,  Battle Armor, and complete Battlemechs, combat and civilian vehicles.  Could this facility be producing SFE and/or Mechs? Probably. Theycould be producing civilian vehicles as far as we know, but I seriously doubt the MH would put two reinforced battalion to guard a Sport Utility Vehicle factory.

Now we move to what I called “The Retrotech Era”. Introduced in 2008 in the Jihad Secrets –Blake Documents (set around 3072 in-universe, the retrotech was a technology stage previous to the “normal” BT technology, that allowed the production of  primitive techswith less logistical investment. A desperate move for a desperate era, but i have to say that for the moment, it was a good choice.

For the Hegemony, in this era, the key year in 3077. There are three books set at that year. Lets begin with Masters and Minions – The StarCorps Dossier (2009). At page 198, in the Alphard Trading Corporation excerpt we found the first contradiction: “It is Cassius´s hope that the ATC will one day build Battlemechs – but his great aunt Livia has so far resisted this impulse...”. At 3067 the only military factories in the Marian Hegemony were the Alphard Trading Corporation, Hadrian Mechanized Industries, Marian Arms Inc, with Techwizards giving salvaging and rebuilding services. With MAI giving no mention to be building Mechs (until later), HMI producing vehicles and ASFs, the only Marian company capable of building Mechs was the ATC. So, I think, here is when we have the writers going from “the Marians builds mechs” to “the Marians can not build Mechs”.

Enter the Centurion  CN9-H. First seen in Experimental Technical Readout: Retrotech (2011) and set in 3081, this retrotech Centurion model, produced jointly by ATC and MAI, and with a development start date in 3077, is set in the fluff as the first Mechanized going out of the ATC/MAI mech facilities.

This is reinforced by the Objectives: The Periphery (2012), set in 3080. In the Marian section it is clearly stated that now the MH have little industry of any kind” (pag. 25). The same section mention that while competent, the lack of greater educational institutes and suitable technology limits the capacity of the personnel of the indigenous military factories. The same book puts MAI making the CN9-H along other primitive models (with Whitworth and MAD II refits) and the ATC just doing the CN9-H and the Fulcrum and J.Edgar. Gone is any mention of the Commando –4H and Locust –1V2. The section also remarks that ATC needed help from other “baby ATCs” to actually produce the CN9-H.

Further cementing this is Jihad: Final Reckoning   (2011), set in 3081, that states that the Marian Hegemony is focusing in the retrotech since 3074, year in which the technology was introduced (pag. 117).

As you can see, the break in lore about the actual Marian Hegemony capacities to produce a Battlemechs occurs around 2008, after CGL takes the license in 2007. I will not point fingers and fall into fanboyism, but I can infer that the CGL writers decided to abandon the lore of the Marian Hegemony producing mechs since 3067 in favor of a new one with the Hegemony struggling to create a primitive mech in 3077.

Personally, this would not bother me too much. But at the same time, you have the Brotherhood of Randis (the only faction of wich I could be called a fanboy) producing not one but THREE primitives mechs (Dervish, Firebee and the mixed-tech Hawkwolf) and Meridian Manufacturing in New St. Andrews, producing a “combat” industrymech, the Arbiter, as noted in FM: 3085 and XTRO:Corporations. Heck, in the same Objectives: The Periphery you have the Rim Collection, what could be called a “backwards” small Periphery nation, producing primitive Commandos –1A thanks to “the ruins of a Star League era factory”.

And this is made worse in books like FM:3085, FM: 3145 and the Jihad: Final Reckoning where you have small single-planet nations like Randis and New. St. Andrews  not only abandoning the retrotech craze, but building, at the least “succession wars” tech by the end of the 3080´s, with even the Rim Collection building their own “bugs” by the Dark Age, if not sooner.

So, taking in count this, I can see why some (if not most) Marian Hegemony “fans” are a little irked of seeing the recent Centurion Militiamech as an example of the Marian actual industrial capacities while you have single-planets entities in the middle of no-where building SW Warhammers, bugs, Commandos and Dervishes.   
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 March 2021, 17:16:45
I thought the MH was also given the Centurion 9Ar as replacing the H in some production.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 13 March 2021, 17:22:47
I thought the MH was also given the Centurion 9Ar as replacing the H in some production.

As far as i know, the Centurion CN9-Ar is a Jihad-era refit.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Metallgewitter on 13 March 2021, 17:43:20
The one thing I always found inconsistent was the fact that the ATC company in the Hegemony was building Fulcrums. Yes FULCRUMS. You know the Hover tank with a XL fusion engine, ECM and Beagle probe. Even if those components are imported you would think that the tech would slowly disseminate through the Hegemony. And I was right to a point the lore sourounding the Mech building capacity in the Hegemony is confusing or rather unclear. Of course the fact that Hadrian Arms suddenly builds Shilones during the Jihad is also suspect. From what I understand is that AF fighters are as complex as Mechs. Why can they build fighters and not Mechs of the same tech level?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 13 March 2021, 17:55:00
And while we do not have details about it, some point between the end of the Jihad and 3130s the MHAF had fought with either MoC or Rim Commonality over Astrokasy that ended up with the world in the Rim's hands.

Only mention of action on Astrokaszy is in FM:3145, pag. 106. Its about the Fifth Rim Commonality Guards just going to the planet, toppling the local caliphate, and the locals just asking for incorporation into the Rim Commonality after years of post-WoB occupation neglegment and constant Marian and Canopian raids.

The one thing I always found inconsistent was the fact that the ATC company in the Hegemony was building Fulcrums. Yes FULCRUMS. You know the Hover tank with a XL fusion engine, ECM and Beagle probe. Even if those components are imported you would think that the tech would slowly disseminate through the Hegemony. And I was right to a point the lore sourounding the Mech building capacity in the Hegemony is confusing or rather unclear. Of course the fact that Hadrian Arms suddenly builds Shilones during the Jihad is also suspect. From what I understand is that AF fighters are as complex as Mechs. Why can they build fighters and not Mechs of the same tech level?

Both very good questions. The ATC Fulcrums is esplained as beign a joint operation between the MH ATC, the TC ATC, and Kali-Yama (the last one also in a deal with another baby ATC in Kendall´s ATC-KY factory). Kali Yama had a similar deatl with the TC ATC to also produce the Fulcrum in the TC, giving technical assisntence in exchange of posible more representation in the FWL market). My own pet theory is that the whole ATC is something like the chinese in the early 90´s, with Kali Yama giving technical know-how in exchange of very cheap production in the Marian hegemony.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 March 2021, 18:01:42
It is a follow up to the original MWDA source.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 13 March 2021, 18:03:08
The one thing I always found inconsistent was the fact that the ATC company in the Hegemony was building Fulcrums. Yes FULCRUMS. You know the Hover tank with a XL fusion engine, ECM and Beagle probe. Even if those components are imported you would think that the tech would slowly disseminate through the Hegemony. And I was right to a point the lore sourounding the Mech building capacity in the Hegemony is confusing or rather unclear. Of course the fact that Hadrian Arms suddenly builds Shilones during the Jihad is also suspect. From what I understand is that AF fighters are as complex as Mechs. Why can they build fighters and not Mechs of the same tech level?

The MH picks up the design specs for the Shilones and Hvy LRM Carriers through some kind of trade deal or purchase of the specs. Not sure which book gives the scant details.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 13 March 2021, 18:05:22
It is a follow up to the original MWDA source.

What source? Could it be any of the old pdfs in the (defunct i think) MW:DA webpage?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 March 2021, 18:22:58
First bit I remember, as I said above, was the Rim Commonality and involved either the leader by himself or when in a discussion with Alethea Choudra, the Chaos Irregulars descended commander of their military. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: GreekFire on 13 March 2021, 19:29:48
How about this: the Locust and Commando were produced within the Hegemony thanks to Blakist assistance. The Word provided parts that the Marians weren't able to manufacture locally, but the Marians developed those variants and assembled them on their own. It's production, but production based off of a supply chain enabled by a foreign power.

When the Word pulls out, the Marians lose access to whatever parts they needed to manufacture their domestic Commando/Locust variants, leading to a sudden manufacturing hiccup. This leads to the rapid development of something that they can easily produce using only domestic parts: the CN9-H and a small roster of Primitives.

Once they dealt with the immediate supply issue, they then switched back towards upgrading their industrial base. The Locust and Commando come back into production, but this time made with domestic parts. Production of the Centurion would remain (albeit changed to Industrial standards) to continue to bulk out their militia forces.

Would that reconcile everything?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 13 March 2021, 20:38:19
First bit I remember, as I said above, was the Rim Commonality and involved either the leader by himself or when in a discussion with Alethea Choudra, the Chaos Irregulars descended commander of their military.

Could it be in To Ride the Chimera?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 March 2021, 22:45:34
Ride was at the end IIRC, I will have to dig it up.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 14 March 2021, 12:34:38
So to sum up a few walls of text:

The Hegemony was building Locusts and Commandos for a while, but lost that ability sometime during the Jihad. They've since managed to work up the RetroTech Centurion line, but as of right now there is no indication that they are building true BattleMechs.

Did I get it right?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 14 March 2021, 12:47:54
Yes, although GreekFires idea does make sense.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: GreekFire on 14 March 2021, 13:06:30
So to sum up a few walls of text:

The Hegemony was building Locusts and Commandos for a while, but lost that ability sometime during the Jihad. They've since managed to work up the RetroTech Centurion line, but as of right now there is no indication that they are building true BattleMechs.

Not quite. There are indications that actual BattleMechs were put back into production (presumably with domestically-sourced parts) by FM:3085, substantiated by FM:3145. The Commando and Locust are a certainty, but I do not believe that information on what may be produced by additional lines (on Addhara, for example) has been published.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 14 March 2021, 14:42:23
So, nothing confirmed. Gotcha.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 14 March 2021, 17:29:47
Not bad proposal Greekfire, but it have some flaws when you compare it to what happened in the examples i give (Randis, New St. Andrews and the Rim Collection). I can understand the Hegemony not having a good "know-how" on the technological skill to design and build a Mech in 3067, and as you said, there were indiccations of such assiatnce (Th Ravager BA for example, was build using a half-finished BA line started by the WoB). Also add that the ATC have some experience dealing with new tech thanks to the deal with ATC-KY, and also the deals that Hadrian made to get things like the Shilone (and ASF is as much, if not more complex, to build than a Mech IIRC).

Here is some counter-proposals, that maybe, or not, are what is in the PTB minds:

First: Just errata The TechManual reference to the Locust in 3067. So you can explain that both that and the TRO:3050U mention of the Locust and Commando are bad/faulty intel. Thus, you make the Hegemony capable only of refits until the CN9-H appears.

Second: Another errata, this time to The StarCorps Dossier, Objectives: Periphery and EXTRO: Retrotech. Put the word "medium" ahead of "Mech". The authors can always put something in a future product (a TRO mention, Spotlight, etc) that while the MH build both the Commando and Locust, local industrial and R&D realities, plus the Jihad, made infasible or just too expensive to design/build a heavier mech, witht he 50tn CN9-H beign the first "Medium" mech produce by the Hegemony.

Third: We can always ask the Writers/Lead Developers. I had some luck in the past, and get nice and informative answers when i asked about the taurian Toro production, and about the ROyal Mech TC´s production during and after the Jihad. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: GreekFire on 14 March 2021, 17:45:52
So, nothing confirmed. Gotcha.

What? No, that's not what I was trying to get at. The Commando and the Locust are 100% in production in Marian space by 3085; it's straight-up written on p.134 of FM:3085.

Not bad proposal Greekfire, but it have some flaws when you compare it to what happened in the examples i give (Randis, New St. Andrews and the Rim Collection).

My proposal attempts to reconcile manufacturing information for the Marians in a way that makes all printed information work. It's entirely within your right to dislike that it leaves the Marians in an industrial state similar to other newer or younger microfactions, but it's a fact of reality that not all BattleTech (or real) states grow their industrial bases at the same speed.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 14 March 2021, 18:17:30
What? No, that's not what I was trying to get at. The Commando and the Locust are 100% in production in Marian space by 3085; it's straight-up written on p.134 of FM:3085.

Sorry, poor wording on my end. I was talking about the vague references to production of BattleMechs larger than the Locust or Commando.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 14 March 2021, 18:25:10
What? No, that's not what I was trying to get at. The Commando and the Locust are 100% in production in Marian space by 3085; it's straight-up written on p.134 of FM:3085.

Good find, i totally forgot about that. Now, with that info your proposal have more ground. The excerpt states that a number of retrotech proceded the introduction of the Locust and Commandos for the date the FM: 3085 is set.

My proposal attempts to reconcile manufacturing information for the Marians in a way that makes all printed information work. It's entirely within your right to dislike that it leaves the Marians in an industrial state similar to other newer or younger microfactions, but it's a fact of reality that not all BattleTech (or real) states grow their industrial bases at the same speed.

I have to admit, its a personal dislike. But it is, for me at the least, when you have, as a company, bad coordination between the writers and the creative team. So you ended up with bigger nations struggling to get mechs, and single planets building them easily. It creates a kind of "lore discrepancy". Don't know if i explain myself with that term.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 14 March 2021, 19:49:48
Randis, fortunately/unfortunately depending on view, gets a pass b/c of the influx of Jaguar equipment and even portions of Jaguar units . . . like with techs.  Easy to get things in production if you know it can be done.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Metallgewitter on 15 March 2021, 07:49:24
The MH picks up the design specs for the Shilones and Hvy LRM Carriers through some kind of trade deal or purchase of the specs. Not sure which book gives the scant details.

That is in minon and Masters. Hadrian MEchanized first presented plans to the Hegemony leadership how they could build SRM carrirs. After a demonstration Hadrian got the order for the carriers. 5 years later the CEO proposed to license the tech from the Outworld Alliance to build Shilones. And it is stated that Hadrian build SCORES of this fighter. The question would be if those are primitive fightrs or their advanced cousins
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 15 March 2021, 08:19:51
Randis, fortunately/unfortunately depending on view, gets a pass b/c of the influx of Jaguar equipment and even portions of Jaguar units . . . like with techs.  Easy to get things in production if you know it can be done.

To better not derail the thread, i suggest we take that to the Brotherhood of Randis thread: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/the-periphery/the-sword-of-the-righteous-fiefdombrotherhood-of-randis/

That is in minon and Masters. Hadrian MEchanized first presented plans to the Hegemony leadership how they could build SRM carrirs. After a demonstration Hadrian got the order for the carriers. 5 years later the CEO proposed to license the tech from the Outworld Alliance to build Shilones. And it is stated that Hadrian build SCORES of this fighter. The question would be if those are primitive fightrs or their advanced cousins

Yeap. M&M mentions that Zaleski took charge of HMI by 3069, and quickly did the SRM Carrier proposal. And about five years later (so, mid-3070´s maybe) he gets a licencing from the OWA for the Shilone, that does not have a primitive version as far as i know. United Outworlders Corporation are the OWA company producing the Shilone, so they are the most likely partner in that transaccion. UOC also have history of making joint-ventures to produce their products, like the cases of Wingman LTD in the TC, and Alliance Aerospace Group in the MoC.

Its also interesting that apparenly HMI got the plans for the Heavy LRM Carrier, and were tunning the last details by 3080.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 15 March 2021, 12:04:36
Personally, this would not bother me too much. But at the same time, you have the Brotherhood of Randis (the only faction of wich I could be called a fanboy) producing not one but THREE primitives mechs (Dervish, Firebee and the mixed-tech Hawkwolf) and Meridian Manufacturing in New St. Andrews, producing a “combat” industrymech, the Arbiter, as noted in FM: 3085 and XTRO:Corporations. Heck, in the same Objectives: The Periphery you have the Rim Collection, what could be called a “backwards” small Periphery nation, producing primitive Commandos –1A thanks to “the ruins of a Star League era factory”.

And this is made worse in books like FM:3085, FM: 3145 and the Jihad: Final Reckoning where you have small single-planet nations like Randis and New. St. Andrews  not only abandoning the retrotech craze, but building, at the least “succession wars” tech by the end of the 3080´s, with even the Rim Collection building their own “bugs” by the Dark Age, if not sooner.

So, taking in count this, I can see why some (if not most) Marian Hegemony “fans” are a little irked of seeing the recent Centurion Militiamech as an example of the Marian actual industrial capacities while you have single-planets entities in the middle of no-where building SW Warhammers, bugs, Commandos and Dervishes.

Well, if the rest of the Randis thread hadn't been cut short, they wouldn't be so irked. Randis made out by a change in the narrative.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 15 March 2021, 13:20:42
Well, if the rest of the Randis thread hadn't been cut short, they wouldn't be so irked. Randis made out by a change in the narrative.

Interesting. Would love to know more about this. Can we keep this particular line in the Randis thread?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 15 March 2021, 22:30:05
Almost forgot, Happy Ides!

Everyone remember to duck!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 16 March 2021, 02:21:48
Yeap. M&M mentions that Zaleski took charge of HMI by 3069, and quickly did the SRM Carrier proposal. And about five years later (so, mid-3070´s maybe) he gets a licencing from the OWA for the Shilone, that does not have a primitive version as far as i know. United Outworlders Corporation are the OWA company producing the Shilone, so they are the most likely partner in that transaccion. UOC also have history of making joint-ventures to produce their products, like the cases of Wingman LTD in the TC, and Alliance Aerospace Group in the MoC.

Its also interesting that apparenly HMI got the plans for the Heavy LRM Carrier, and were tunning the last details by 3080.

I think these Jihad-era Marian Shilones are the standard ones from TRO3039 that haven't been upgraded with SL tech.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Metallgewitter on 16 March 2021, 08:53:16
Yeap. M&M mentions that Zaleski took charge of HMI by 3069, and quickly did the SRM Carrier proposal. And about five years later (so, mid-3070´s maybe) he gets a licencing from the OWA for the Shilone, that does not have a primitive version as far as i know. United Outworlders Corporation are the OWA company producing the Shilone, so they are the most likely partner in that transaccion. UOC also have history of making joint-ventures to produce their products, like the cases of Wingman LTD in the TC, and Alliance Aerospace Group in the MoC.

Interestingly enough Minion&Masters seems to indicate Hadrian Mechanized seems to build those fighters. The last sentence says that there are issues with the HM build Shilone which Zaleskis dismisses as exagerated. So I would guess HM just buys components of the Shilone and builds them in the Hegemony. Maybe they send some Shilones completly assembled back just like car companies in our time send parts all around the world to save money and then assemble them in their main plant.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 March 2021, 09:12:07
Almost forgot, Happy Ides!

Everyone remember to duck!

Remember Julius O'Reilly....i mean, Gaius Julius Cesar!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 16 March 2021, 09:36:22
To mark the day, I painted up a Cataphract in VI Legio colors, taking extra care on the aft weapons. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 16 March 2021, 10:29:47
Interestingly enough Minion&Masters seems to indicate Hadrian Mechanized seems to build those fighters. The last sentence says that there are issues with the HM build Shilone which Zaleskis dismisses as exagerated. So I would guess HM just buys components of the Shilone and builds them in the Hegemony. Maybe they send some Shilones completly assembled back just like car companies in our time send parts all around the world to save money and then assemble them in their main plant.

I do not take it that way, it is how complicated in the early stages of production that the HMI has a hard time making the fighters, since it comes from being a factory dedicated to the Armored to take the leap and build a Factory Wing to make Fighters Aerospace a whole technological step, those problems discussed sound more to me like the logical step from manufacturing to Aerospace Fighters
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: GreekFire on 16 March 2021, 12:15:04
Sorry, poor wording on my end. I was talking about the vague references to production of BattleMechs larger than the Locust or Commando.

All good! I misunderstood.  :thumbsup:

I have to admit, its a personal dislike. But it is, for me at the least, when you have, as a company, bad coordination between the writers and the creative team. So you ended up with bigger nations struggling to get mechs, and single planets building them easily. It creates a kind of "lore discrepancy". Don't know if i explain myself with that term.

I get where you're coming from, but it is what it is. But the important thing overall is to offer Marian players—if they choose to play a lore-accurate game—a wide variety of interesting units to field on the table. I think we've done a pretty decent job at that on the MUL.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 16 March 2021, 12:48:54
So fun opinion question . . . on the Ides, if a Caeser is in a war zone do they hunker down that day inside their perimeter?

If you were the rebels/opponents . . . would you plan a Op to try to get to the Caeser on the Ides?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 March 2021, 13:00:21
So fun opinion question . . . on the Ides, if a Caeser is in a war zone do they hunker down that day inside their perimeter?

If you were the rebels/opponents . . . would you plan a Op to try to get to the Caeser on the Ides?

Maybe its my upbringing, but if I would be a César, i would have a VERY LOYAL guard around me, everytime, all the time.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 16 March 2021, 15:00:41
Maybe its my upbringing, but if I would be a César, i would have a VERY LOYAL guard around me, everytime, all the time.

Sorry you'll have a Brutus tank guarding your backdoor?

Pleb joke, really! :))

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 16 March 2021, 15:12:26
Sorry you'll have a Brutus tank guarding your backdoor?

Pleb joke, really! :))

TT

No joke, look at the two large lasers the Brutus is sporting. Then look at the rear armor of a Caesar....
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 March 2021, 16:02:40
No joke, look at the two large lasers the Brutus is sporting. Then look at the rear armor of a Caesar....

Better to have a Praetorian Mobile Strategic Command HQ in your back....unless your name is Pertinax.  :laughing_skull:
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 16 March 2021, 16:19:20
No joke, look at the two large lasers the Brutus is sporting. Then look at the rear armor of a Caesar....

Lol, I know the Brutus/Caeser armor joke, but I was more looking at do you think the Caesers would be superstitious over the Ides of March.  And do you think it is something enemies might exploit- or even if the Caeser was not suspicious would rebels/Lothians use the day for propaganda.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 25 March 2021, 10:00:05
Hello last night in a quiet moment I started to review the Dark Age part of the Hegemony, and after that I found a series of data that could infer production or another way of deployment of different Battlemech / Tanks / Aero and Battlearmor equipment.

I have found for example that the Gotha -400 is only used by the Marian Hegemony and Pirates, but for example the Gotha-500 is only used by the Hegemony

My theory in this case is several options

Option One the Hegemony found a Depot SL or WOB lost over there in the Periphery.
Option 2: Somehow the Hegemony makes both the Gotha - 400 and the Version 500

Similar situation occurs with the Stingray F-90 and F-94, while the F-90 is only operated as a state by the Hegemony and next user Mercs, instead the F-94 is used by the Marian Hegemony, Marik's Non-Aligned Worlds and the Regulan Fiefs.

My theory with these two versions of the Stingray is that before the Fall the Regulus Government sold the design to be Manufactured to the Hegemony as a way to destabilize their enemies of Marik origin.

I start with these two designs but there are quite a few more that could be theorized as they reach the Hegemony.

Oh and Colt Ward looking at the MUL the Lyran / Marian Business Relationship is pretty oiled
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 25 March 2021, 10:31:15
I never said it did not exist- what I said it was a long trip that IF the Hegemony's government encouraged many/frequent trips that went 'around' the FWL they would be tying up a lot of their shipping that could instead be benefiting the Hegemony and local partners for trade.  Additionally, since the Lyrans were already a proven merc market seller it does not prove the Hegemony were volume direct buyers- reference the Hegemony salvage buying teams.  They would be placed on merc hiring worlds . . . like Galatea, Arc Royal, and Solaris VII; all three local to the Lyran mech market.

For a historical example, consider the British tea trade vs the Triangle trade.  IIRC the tea trade had freighters make the trip down Africa, around the Cape, to India, and back and the journey would take a year until the advent of the clippers.  The Triangle trade, using the colonial molasses example, allowed the ships doing that route a lot more trips in a year- England's manufactured goods, down to the West Indies, and then to the American colonies, and back to England with raw materials.  While the Triangle trade still took a year, ships would turn over their cargo holds multiple times in that year.  Current term for that sort of commercial emphasis is 'velocity of sales'- you do not want to be tied up long term in inventory but to constantly turn it over.  Further, the local trade routes around the Hegemony are going to do more to build the Marian economy (and the supporting economies of client states) than once a year long haul trips to the Lyrans.  ESPECIALLY when you consider a JS would not typically go down a route w/it's collars full from the start of the trade route to the end . . . so a Marian based Invader (which is a 'big' asset for them considering the normal break down) would have one or maybe two collars occupied by the trading mission dropships.  The third collar is likely rented out to take independent traders the next one or two jumps on their own trade routes.  The trade generated by the 'for rent' collar only marginally benefits the Hegemony's economy- the dropship is not moving goods inside the Hegemony so there are no taxes generated, it is not finding/using a market for Hegemony finished goods or raw materials, it is not spreading Hegemony culture to client states, or doing anything else that could benefit the Marian Hegemony like it could operating closer to the Hegemony.

You do not want your jumpships spending most of their time operating in other nations- it benefits them more than it does your nation.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: GreekFire on 25 March 2021, 10:57:12
Hello last night in a quiet moment I started to review the Dark Age part of the Hegemony, and after that I found a series of data that could infer production or another way of deployment of different Battlemech / Tanks / Aero and Battlearmor equipment.

I have found for example that the Gotha -400 is only used by the Marian Hegemony and Pirates, but for example the Gotha-500 is only used by the Hegemony

My theory in this case is several options

Option One the Hegemony found a Depot SL or WOB lost over there in the Periphery.
Option 2: Somehow the Hegemony makes both the Gotha - 400 and the Version 500

I propose option 3: the Marians have long been users of the Gotha, with its entry in TR:3050 stating that designs seen outside of the League were salvaged or spoils of war, with a few production runs going to foreign nations as well.

While the League/RotS might have used the time between the Jihad and the Dark Age to upgrade their 400/500 models to 500b/600 standards, the Marians might not have due to a lack of access to the technology to do so. And so they remain stuck with the older models, while the Inner Sphere factions have moved on to greener pastures.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 25 March 2021, 11:10:40
I propose option 3: the Marians have long been users of the Gotha, with its entry in TR:3050 stating that designs seen outside of the League were salvaged or spoils of war, with a few production runs going to foreign nations as well.

While the League/RotS might have used the time between the Jihad and the Dark Age to upgrade their 400/500 models to 500b/600 standards, the Marians might not have due to a lack of access to the technology to do so. And so they remain stuck with the older models, while the Inner Sphere factions have moved on to greener pastures.

III is a good option, but if there is a used market in GOTHa so wide so that the Hegemony maintains its Gotha, shouldn't there be more users of smaller size? It is a doubt nothing more, and in the case of the Stingray?

If it does not bother you later, I will raise other models that I have doubts, Fighters / Mechs / Tanks etc.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 25 March 2021, 11:14:49
I never said it did not exist- what I said it was a long trip that IF the Hegemony's government encouraged many/frequent trips that went 'around' the FWL they would be tying up a lot of their shipping that could instead be benefiting the Hegemony and local partners for trade.  Additionally, since the Lyrans were already a proven merc market seller it does not prove the Hegemony were volume direct buyers- reference the Hegemony salvage buying teams.  They would be placed on merc hiring worlds . . . like Galatea, Arc Royal, and Solaris VII; all three local to the Lyran mech market.

For a historical example, consider the British tea trade vs the Triangle trade.  IIRC the tea trade had freighters make the trip down Africa, around the Cape, to India, and back and the journey would take a year until the advent of the clippers.  The Triangle trade, using the colonial molasses example, allowed the ships doing that route a lot more trips in a year- England's manufactured goods, down to the West Indies, and then to the American colonies, and back to England with raw materials.  While the Triangle trade still took a year, ships would turn over their cargo holds multiple times in that year.  Current term for that sort of commercial emphasis is 'velocity of sales'- you do not want to be tied up long term in inventory but to constantly turn it over.  Further, the local trade routes around the Hegemony are going to do more to build the Marian economy (and the supporting economies of client states) than once a year long haul trips to the Lyrans.  ESPECIALLY when you consider a JS would not typically go down a route w/it's collars full from the start of the trade route to the end . . . so a Marian based Invader (which is a 'big' asset for them considering the normal break down) would have one or maybe two collars occupied by the trading mission dropships.  The third collar is likely rented out to take independent traders the next one or two jumps on their own trade routes.  The trade generated by the 'for rent' collar only marginally benefits the Hegemony's economy- the dropship is not moving goods inside the Hegemony so there are no taxes generated, it is not finding/using a market for Hegemony finished goods or raw materials, it is not spreading Hegemony culture to client states, or doing anything else that could benefit the Marian Hegemony like it could operating closer to the Hegemony.

You do not want your jumpships spending most of their time operating in other nations- it benefits them more than it does your nation.

The point is that you only consider the Marians ships making the trip, and there may be some factories or part of the Lyran state partially supporting the Trade Route, making the full trip or Dropship transfers.

That would leave other jump ships free to trade with Client States or Client Systems.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 25 March 2021, 11:38:12
Re Stingrays & Gotha . . . at least the Stingray was produced by Andurien and a Andurien subsidiary on Westover.  Westover is 'close' to the Periphery border and was a independent League world until it was reformed and basically coerced into joining the Rim Commonality.

The point is that you only consider the Marians ships making the trip, and there may be some factories or part of the Lyran state partially supporting the Trade Route, making the full trip or Dropship transfers.

That would leave other jump ships free to trade with Client States or Client Systems.

Yeah, I am factoring in mainly Hegemony based JS b/c the lucrative trade for the Lyran based JS is not going to be making the journey out to the Hegemony.  The whole point was Hegemony trading vessels, trying to now claim Lyrans is moving the goal posts.  If the Hegemony is encouraging their merchant JS fleet to make long range trading journeys it is a 'waste' of those JS since their cargo turnover will be less frequent (Tea vs Triangle), nothing in the IS or other Periphery states is going to have the value to mimic the Tea/Spice value (weight to value ratio), and like I keep pointing out the free collars in other nations benefit those nations when they could be promoting the Hegemony.

Drop collars are the rarest, most valuable commodity in the BTU.  Sending yours away for what is in reality a negligible economic benefit is extremely wasteful- at best it is economic dereliction of duty; at worst it is economic treason.

Now to address you added bit about being the destination of long range trading, it is a valid point.  With the way the BTU is set up, they do provide something akin to spice/tea- they are a source for Germanium that is required for cores.  For some reason they are a better source than most other naturally occurring sources, but that is a conceit of the BTU set up.  Only problem with tying that to the Lyrans is . . . they have nowhere producing Jumpships any more.  So Canopians, Leaguers, and Capellans would be their nearest buyers of Germanium.  If you DID have control on a market like BTU says the Hegemony does on Germanium . . . yeah, forcing your buyers to come pick it up would be a really good idea.  Still leaves the Lyrans out post-Jihad.

And still makes merc hiring hall purchasing agents a bigger source for Lyran designs than trade runs to Son Hoa.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 25 March 2021, 15:21:15
My take on the Gotha and Stingray point. By checking the MUL i can only infer what the MUL team was thinking.

The Gotha was made by Allied Technologies of Stewart until they got conquered by the Wolves, and the line was reporpuse for the Goth ASF. The -400 and -500 are in the MH lists, until the DA era when both appeared only in MH (and pirate in the -400 case). Checking more modern variants, they are still avaible among the FWL states. My theory is that both the -400 and -500 were sold in the free market, with the FWL prefering the more modern variants, and the Hegemony using the oldest because of a logistical issue. The thing about the ASF in the free market are supported by the Stingray -94 and Lancer LX-2, both made by the same producer (Gutierrez Aerospace), until the factory (Trellisane) got conquered by the Wolves.

Now, checking the Mechs, and in lesser importance, the combat vehicle, list, there is a notorious predominance of FWL and LC models in the MH list, with the more "new" mechs beign Lyran against the more "clan invasion" models of the FWL origin. Another example is the Marsden MBT II-A (LB-X). There are a number of mechs and tanks that appears in LC, Merc and Marian lists, but no other place.

As you said, dropship collar is the bottleneck of interstellar trade, and i agree that sending a "empty" JS to the LC just to get mechs would be criminal, but the LC was, and still is, a merchant realm, with organizations like the Lyran Free Traders Association having like 200 JS going around the LC, its neighboors and even the Periphery, or Nashan Shipping, to mention some.

And even with their reduced JP production capacity reduced (bye bye Alarion, you will be missed), Germanium, as other minerals as cobalt, or even the Alphard White Marble could be exported back to the LC.

If you check the books, all, even in the dark ages of 3025 trade was still active trough the Inner Sphere and the  Periphery, and even in far places like New Syrtis, people could get Timbiqui Dark.

So, while i usually differ with Adaca about the Marian hegemony´s capacity to produce this or that, i have to support him in the theory that the Marian Hegemony have some kind of trade relation with the Lyran Commonwealth, based in the mechs and vehicles avaible in the MUL.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 25 March 2021, 16:59:59
Never said trade with the Lyrans does not happen, and if that is the reading I am sorry, but rather a very small portion if any of the Marian JS merchant fleet's use.  In fact, I agree that cargos originate from Arc Royal and Solaris VII  (Galatea in the Republic) for the Hegemony in the form of salvage quality arms shipped back to the Hegemony.  But that is likely just cargo dropships hitching along on someone else's jumpships though whether they go through League space or around the Periphery is a valid question.  Honestly for economic competitiveness if I had enough DS for my 'coastal' traffic, having my own DS taking up the 'hitch hiker' collar slot on long journeys would be a good thing since it would decrease 'local' traffic in another realm.  Basically all those reasons why it is bad for my JS to rent collars on a long journey would be a good reason for my DS to sit on someone else's collars.  More than likely Hegemony JS, at least for military, sensitive or tech transfer cargos, meet Lyran or Periphery JS at a halfway point rather than make a long round trip to Lyran space.

The Lyrans would have a large merchant fleet but it is not going to be a significant portion of or the high capacity ships of the Lyran merchant fleet headed to the Hegemony.  By 3150 the Lyrans have even been trading with the JFOZ (based on Rending- LOVE that Lyran merchant/LIC character Baron whatever) and A Call to Arms set right after the Blackout talked about the recent trade agreement with the Lyrans having cargo transship through Archernar.  They have larger markets and bigger clients closer to Lyran space to trade with than the Hegemony.

I do think if the Hegemony has such a stranglehold on the Germanium production that they can make the demands buyers come to Hegemony space to pick it up or that Hegemony DS bring it to you.  One makes JS from other nations come to your region of space which would give you a slight boost to local trade for the jumps between the border and the mining location letting your JS merchant fleet work locally.  The other route demanding MH DS ship the Germanium out takes up at least League collars and could encourage a migration of cargo droppers to Hegemony space to register and work Germanium shipment contracts.

The other thing to consider is that by 3130s and later most of the trade of Lyran war material could be sourced through the Sea Fox Khanates.  The wandering trade convoys could be the source without Lyran JS going to the Hegemony or Hegemony JS or DS appearing in Lyran space.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 25 March 2021, 17:11:13
If we refer to the mechs of the Coventry Mechworks and Defiance Industries, I agree with the transfer by third parties or even Salvage Merc collects them, but given the high index of Starcorps mechs in the MHAF it gives me the guideline that the Commercial Traffic between Son Hoa and the Marian Hegemony must be intense.

Given that second-line mechs and Omnifighters appear in the MHAF TOE I would not rule out that the Sharks also have their trade route going to and from the Hegemony, perhaps carrying Germanium and other minerals and returning with military equipment, if the route remains it may the commercial link is enlarged and let's see some bigger investment
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 25 March 2021, 18:09:25
Gah, the stuff that gets posted while trying to type out a long one. Ah well, gonna post anyway, and if I overlap with anyone, then we'll have to agree to agree.

The thing about Battletech is that you have two different classes of merchant ships. In the real world, both the Tea Trade and Triangle Trade routes were undertaken by sail ships. There might have been different classes, but for this kind of discussion they're largely identical. But Battletech has merchant JumpShips AND merchant DropShips.

I have no evidence of this, but my headcanon holds that most JumpShips flagged to a given nation tend to stay fairly close to home(maybe venturing out as far as a couple jumps beyond friendly borders), and run regular Triangle-style routes with predictable stops. These lead to networks of ships throughout a region, where a DropShip merely has to schedule collar space on a ship going in the right direction, or wait until such a collar becomes available. These networks overlap, so a DropShip wanting to travel from Lyran space to a Marik world would transfer to a Marik-flagged JumpShip in a system near the border. JumpShips traveling through wild territory outside any borders or through more hazardous areas(between unclaimed worlds in the Periphery or former Circinian space, for example), ships might make the same stops, but to compensate for the extra risk they might only begin their route when enough DropShips are present to fill their collars. Nations would encourage this practice of staying close to home(possibly through tax breaks or other incentives), because JumpShips that stay close by are easier to commandeer during times of crisis.

DropShips are another matter. I won't say they're expendable, but an individual merchant Dropper is nowhere near as precious to a nation's economy as a JumpShip. They're much easier to repair or replace, they can afford to take greater risks in trade. I see DropShip merchants as the ones more likely to take the long Tea Trade-style journeys in search of the goods and resources that cannot be found in more local markets.

Those non-JumpShip cargo haulers are what I believe carry purchases from Lyran space, or carry Marian agents even further afield.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 25 March 2021, 18:38:03
If we refer to the mechs of the Coventry Mechworks and Defiance Industries, I agree with the transfer by third parties or even Salvage Merc collects them, but given the high index of Starcorps mechs in the MHAF it gives me the guideline that the Commercial Traffic between Son Hoa and the Marian Hegemony must be intense.

It is not intense- for one they lack the economic base to buy the imports- just because they are on the MUL does not mean it is a lot of them.  Additionally, all it would take is one Jumbo load every 5 years . . . you are then talking about 11000+ tons of equipment and munitions.  Just going off the  Sunder, Highlander and Emperor that IIRC they make there it means you could ship 100 of those mechs as cargo and still have room left over to ship their logistical support needs.  But they are not getting that many every five years . . . MAYBE they have 100 of those designs in the MAF total when 3132 brings on the Blackout.

Weirdo- I agree which is why I said the JS are not being sent on trading missions that far afield.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 25 March 2021, 19:54:19
At the Shark / Foxes :

All it would take would be a single trade. Using one of three Carrack Merchant variant, warship turned merchant.

With equal amount of trade and other " stuff ", that single ship could amount a whole mess of things.

Suggest look up what their doing, buying and trading in the " local " areas...

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 26 March 2021, 00:58:11
if you want to see what the marians are importing by and large, look at the periphery general list by itself. that's what's being sold in large enough numbers to make shipping it all down into the periphery worthwhile. most of the specifically marian-assigned units are pre-3067 marik and steiner  gear acquired through various means over the years (with a touch of wobby mixed in there) and what they manufacture for themselves like the rocket launcher H variants.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 March 2021, 10:48:45
if you want to see what the marians are importing by and large, look at the periphery general list by itself. that's what's being sold in large enough numbers to make shipping it all down into the periphery worthwhile. most of the specifically marian-assigned units are pre-3067 marik and steiner  gear acquired through various means over the years (with a touch of wobby mixed in there) and what they manufacture for themselves like the rocket launcher H variants.

Not everything is pre 3067 imported material


Stinger STG-5G  -- 3076
Wasp WSP-3P  -- 3086
Wasp WSP-5A  -- 3114
Commando COM-2Dr  -- 3075
Hermit Crab HMC-13/14/15  -- 3104
Cadaver CVR-A1  --  3094
UrbanMech UM-AIV  -- 3072
UrbanMech UM-R80 -- 3076
Firestarter FS9-M2/M3/M4  -- 3101/3104/3109
Ostscout OTT-12R  -- 3145
Storm Raider STM-R1/R2/R3 -- 3097/98/3106
Clint CLNT-3-3T -- 3069
Hermes II HER-5Sr -- 3074
Icarus II ICR-2S -- 3073 (unless you tell me they are made locally by virtue of the primitive versions being made and made)
Vulcan VT-5Sr  -- 3074
Cobra CBR-03 -- 3075
Eisenfaust EFT-7X  -- 3076
Centurion CN9-Ar  -- 3072
Ghost GST-11  -- 3082
Dervish DV-6Mr  -  3072
Gladiator GLD-5R -- 3075  (unless you tell me they are made locally by virtue of the primitive versions being made and made)
Griffin GRF-3N  -- 3094
Marshal MHL-6FR  -- 3086
Shadow Hawk SHD-5R  -- 3087
Shadow Hawk SHD-7H  --  3097
Wolverine WVR-9M   - - 3073
Quickdraw QKD-5Mr   - - -3070
Bandersnatch BNDR-01Ar  -- 3071
Archer ARC-4M2   -- 3086
HawkWolf HWK-3F  -- 3076
Longbow LGB-14C  -- 3070
Goliath GOL-6H  - 3071
Victor VTR-9Ka  -- 3076
Highlander HGN-740  -- 3115
Atlas AS7-K2  -- 3082
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 26 March 2021, 11:22:58
yeah, i misspoke, i really meant pre-republic (having 3067 open for something else crossed my wires... a frequent occurrence)

there are a number of primitives still in production around the entire inner sphere. marian production itself is very limited on all fronts

the marshal in particular is a product of how we track data. since the Fronc Reaches isn't on the list of states we track and that variant had to go somewhere, it got Periphery General (same with the Tinstar suits). 

a good amount of gear you have there is actually from the periphery general list, which i mentioned was traded widely, including to the marians

this is more what i was speaking to
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&Factions=35&AvailableEras=16
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 March 2021, 11:37:47
yeah, i misspoke, i really meant pre-republic (having 3067 open for something else crossed my wires... a frequent occurrence)

there are a number of primitives still in production around the entire inner sphere. marian production itself is very limited on all fronts

the marshal in particular is a product of how we track data. since the Fronc Reaches isn't on the list of states we track and that variant had to go somewhere, it got Periphery General (same with the Tinstar suits). 

a good amount of gear you have there is actually from the periphery general list, which i mentioned was traded widely, including to the marians

this is more what i was speaking to
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&Factions=35&AvailableEras=16

Great, my comment was to confirm the trade with the LC and inter-periphery

And there are still more mechs of the following Rec Guide to appear, let's hope to link some mech that we build beyond the Commando and the Locust, and the primitives
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 26 March 2021, 11:51:49
the lyrans still like money as far as I know so yes, they're definitely sending equipment down there  :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 March 2021, 11:59:38
the lyrans still like money as far as I know so yes, they're definitely sending equipment down there  :)

And if in the process of making money, they bother at the border of the FWL, I do not think they are indifferent
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 27 March 2021, 08:44:51
The Hegemony and Regulus are important Lyran proxies to keep the Leaguers off balance, and their factories will keep working to keep the two factions supplied all the time.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 27 March 2021, 08:46:50
Well. Not regulus now
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 27 March 2021, 09:05:59
Apologies. Was referring to the 3075-3140 period.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 29 March 2021, 15:24:31
Only problem with tying that to the Lyrans is . . . they have nowhere producing Jumpships any more. 

In some places ignoring Gibbs will earn you a head-slap.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Ruger on 29 March 2021, 15:46:18
In some places ignoring Gibbs will earn you a head-slap.

And rightfully so in most of those places.

Especially if your name is DiNozzo.

Ruger
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 29 March 2021, 17:04:17
In some places ignoring Gibbs will earn you a head-slap.

What ignoring?  Unless it was snuck in Shrapnel #4 which has not delivered to me even if it was paid for months ago as part of the KS, the fact has not changed that the Lyrans officially have no jumpship shipyard under their control.

With that said, and knowing they do not have to be built in Star Trek based construction slips the Lyrans could be building them in open space . . . they just also lost the production facilities for the stationkeeping drives until fluff says otherwise.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 29 March 2021, 18:02:36
What ignoring?  Unless it was snuck in Shrapnel #4 which has not delivered to me even if it was paid for months ago as part of the KS, the fact has not changed that the Lyrans officially have no jumpship shipyard under their control.

Quote
The orbital shipyards at Gibbs were raided by Clan Jade Falcon in August 3144, but the strike was likely diversionary in nature, as it
was a light group easily pushed back by the LCAF aerospace defense. Even so, the Ioto Galactic Enterprises facility, located at Gibbs’ L1 Lagrange point, has also been the most heavily defended space facility in the realm since the Jihad.
Field Manual: 3145, page 122

Quote
Located only a jump from Tharkad and Coventry, while also serving as some to the Commonwealth’s largest remaining naval yards, Gibbs is strategically critical to the
LCAF—and both Clans Wolf and Jade Falcon know this.
Field Manual: 3145, page 129

Quote
IOTO GALACTIC ENTERPRISES (IotoGal) - Ioto Orbital One (Gibbs) - Main Products (Ioto of Gibbs): Merchant JumpShip
Handbook: House Steiner, page 143

Quote
...with Gibbs having the only JumpShip manufacturing facility. While it was hastily upgraded to allow for WarShip maintenance, production expansion beyond Merchant class JumpShips won’t likely occur until the mid-3090s at best.
Field Manual: 3085, page 97
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 30 March 2021, 06:08:23
Hi guys, MH newbie here.  Just starting my entry and collection.  Don't mean to interrupt the technical history.  Came here because something I read is bothering me and I can see Marians are still annoyed from the technical crawl being slow so I apologize again.

I read the Marian (Let's be real, the Marik part) of Shattered Fortress and wanted to ask what... the hell is going on in the Hegemony command structure?  We went from raids to hone the military (ie live train) and preparing for a retaliatory invasion with experienced and ready combatants (Field Manual 3145), to invading two nations with no buildup and screwing up royally?  Not only that, but reverting back to pirate mentalities and spreading so thin from trying to loot that they can't even hold a province capitol?

Not trying to rant or critique, I'm just baffled they would 180 a faction development from one book to the next like it's 40k Chaos Marines.  Unless they wanted to highlight that the FWL is probably going to see another civil war if Marik goes rogue.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 30 March 2021, 08:53:45
And rightfully so in most of those places.

Especially if your name is DiNozzo.

Ruger

I was not responsible for the naming of Gibb's moon.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 March 2021, 09:05:01
Hm, well no one was bringing that out in the 'Lyrans are doomed' topic- I was providing the obscure Swartklipz reference lol.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 30 March 2021, 11:38:08
@ Turaglas

 This was hotly debated starting about page 18 . It probably best to go back there rather than reignite that fire.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 30 March 2021, 15:03:34
As Saint tells you, review the debate from page 18 onwards, I agree with you that nothing written about that campaign has any strategic sense or of any kind.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 March 2021, 15:24:07
. . . nothing written about that campaign has any strategic sense or of any kind.

Which has not stopped such events from playing out repeatedly in real history.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 30 March 2021, 16:19:28
Which has not stopped such events from playing out repeatedly in real history.


I mean that the immediately previous book said that the MHAF and the government of the Hegemony had a policy totally opposite to how they act at that time, it is more until Ignatius reorganizes a legion than in the two previous books he said that he would not rebuild it yet and thus several issues faced
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 March 2021, 17:11:37
Huh?  Are you comparing FM3085 or ER3145 to FM3145?  Since 3100 there were 3 different Caesers . . . and when the caeser changes, then policy can change- sometimes drastically. 

You are also changing topics- you think a campaign does not make sense but you have much more OOC information than the policy makers have IC, and thus some things might not make sense because you have that complete picture.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 30 March 2021, 17:31:31
I am talking about the last Cesar who is Ignatius O'Really and in the ERA Report and Field Manual 3145 he talks about him not of the others who are from previous eras, I am not English speaking but it is very clear in the ER Report and Field Report 3145 it make it very clear
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 30 March 2021, 18:18:25
Huh?  Are you comparing FM3085 or ER3145 to FM3145?  Since 3100 there were 3 different Caesers . . . and when the caeser changes, then policy can change- sometimes drastically. 

You are also changing topics- you think a campaign does not make sense but you have much more OOC information than the policy makers have IC, and thus some things might not make sense because you have that complete picture.

Quote
The Marian Hegemony has spent the years since the Blackout in a relative state of quiet. With their military spent from years of fighting in the Lothian territories, they are in no position to take advantage of the lack of communications with aggressive action against their neighbors.
Era Report 3145, page 76

Quote
This announcement is indicative of the type of Caesar that Ignatius has been since he came to power. Given to impulsive decisions and rash judgments, he can be capriciously cruel at the worst of times. Yet there is another side to him, one that composes humorous poetry for sick children, or dedicates a botanical garden on Alphard for the free use of the public.
Era Report 3145, page 113

Quote
Still, Caesar Ignatius has refrained from territorial expansion and has instead concentrated on intense raiding across the long Periphery border with the Free Worlds League and deep into the Magistracy of Canopus—activities that seem aimed more at projecting and honing the MHAF’s strength.
Field Manual 3145, page 185

Quote
Unlike his father or grandfather, Ignatius supports diplomatic and cultural ties with nearby unaffiliated worlds....This has enabled the Hegemony’s sphere of influence to extend itself with far less bloodshed throughout the 3140s.
Field Manual 3145, page 185

Quote
This recovery has been slowed by increased combat action across the coreward region of the Hegemony, where the I, II, and III Legios have all been experiencing nearly triple the number of bandit raids since hostilities with the Lothian League were suspended.
Field Manual 3145, page 196


From this sources, we can find that the MH spend most of their post Jihad years rebuilding their nation and armed forces, and dealing (badly) with the Lothians. After 2 dead Cesars, Ignatius just said "screw that" i forgot about Lothario. Now, we can see the MHAF rebuilding and  improving their officer corps with some limited raiding, while diplomatically trying a "soft power" approach with the independants like Niops and New St. Andrews, with military selling and spots in their military academies. We also see, from other sources, that the MH supported pirate bands to attack the MoC and the various ex-FWL states to have them busy.

I have to concede that Ignatius is mercurial, the guy guy have a bad case of Bipolarism, but he is mostly a politician and diplomat before a warrior, and i can see the MHAF command advicing against dealing with a reformed FWL.

Then, in Shattered Fortress you have the MH heavily raiding Tamarind, invading 2 planets in the Rim Commonality for no apparent reason, and a former canopian planet. This were not raids, or crash and grab actions, these were full blown invasions, and after some action, retreats. And then Tamarind get mechs and mercs from who know where (after the heavy losses the Tamarid Regular had for the previous years) and began to invade the MH.

So, either Ignatius got full tin-pot dictator, fell to a "clever capellan trick" (see Shattered Fortress page 37), took "stupid pills", have IC information that forced him to order those actions, all of the above, or maybe some other reason we don't know.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 30 March 2021, 21:44:26
Or based on incomplete information rather than the POV writer's overview, decided to pursue a buffer between core Hegemony worlds and the neo League thinking that Andurien and Regulus would be supporting them. My point was the ER & FM were not out of sync though probably did have a different approach then FM3085.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 31 March 2021, 05:35:10
As Saint tells you, review the debate from page 18 onwards, I agree with you that nothing written about that campaign has any strategic sense or of any kind.

I apologize, I should have read the topic first. 

Which has not stopped such events from playing out repeatedly in real history.

Usually there is a thought process that goes into bad and suicidal ideas in history that are only terrible with hindsight.  There was no thought process here, this is basically feeder writing to set up something later.  But I'm not going to reignite the debate.  More of just trying to figure out what's going on but I seem to have an echoing answer from the playerbase.

I'm happy to get into the faction and meet all of you though.  Would I be good to ask about Hegemony mechs in MUL/Periphery ratsvhere or should I ask in another topic?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 31 March 2021, 08:07:12
I apologize, I should have read the topic first. 

Which has not stopped such events from playing out repeatedly in real history.

Usually there is a thought process that goes into bad and suicidal ideas in history that are only terrible with hindsight.  There was no thought process here, this is basically feeder writing to set up something later.  But I'm not going to reignite the debate.  More of just trying to figure out what's going on but I seem to have an echoing answer from the playerbase.

I'm happy to get into the faction and meet all of you though.  Would I be good to ask about Hegemony mechs in MUL/Periphery ratsvhere or should I ask in another topic?


Welcome Turaglas, Hegemony and Cesar welcome you with open arms, it is not necessary to open another post, ask here what you want from the Mechs Marians of the MUL.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 31 March 2021, 09:25:12
I'm happy to get into the faction and meet all of you though.  Would I be good to ask about Hegemony mechs in MUL/Periphery ratsvhere or should I ask in another topic?

No here works . . . basically after 3060, if you are not packing rockets on something, you are wrong.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 31 March 2021, 12:57:29
No here works . . . basically after 3060, if you are not packing rockets on something, you are wrong.

There are more than RL mechs on the MUL roster
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 31 March 2021, 14:03:08
There are more than RL mechs on the MUL roster

Sure, those 'Mechs awaiting modifications to mount rockets.  ;)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 31 March 2021, 14:03:47
Sure, those 'Mechs awaiting modifications to mount rockets.  ;)

Just think of how many you can put on the Caeser's Sunder with all that Omni-pod space.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 31 March 2021, 16:24:37
let's just say if you were were the marians and had to build an outfit that was largely home-produced, it would have a lot of rockets       
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 31 March 2021, 16:55:50
Sure, those 'Mechs awaiting modifications to mount rockets.  ;)


No, Thanks, for RL there are already specific mechs for them, the others we use them as they come, except perhaps the RL lovers who will add them because if you just
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 31 March 2021, 22:06:57
Personally, i think the RL refits were a product of its time. Basically, they Marians need to add much punch to old introtech mechs, as acess to more advanced technology was dificult at best (without the help of WoB at least).

Now, in the Dark Age, the marians are making such advanced tech (at least things like AIV and Light Ferro). It is my opinion that RL, now, should be mounted were they belong: fast stuff that can unload them at a back of a mech and run away to rearm.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 31 March 2021, 22:21:06
Personally, i think the RL refits were a product of its time. Basically, they Marians need to add much punch to old introtech mechs, as acess to more advanced technology was dificult at best (without the help of WoB at least).

Now, in the Dark Age, the marians are making such advanced tech (at least things like AIV and Light Ferro). It is my opinion that RL, now, should be mounted were they belong: fast stuff that can unload them at a back of a mech and run away to rearm.

(https://i.imgflip.com/30r1af.png)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 01 April 2021, 08:22:15
So very deeply saddened that we never got access to any of the RL Lightnings. Same with Katyushas.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 01 April 2021, 09:13:19
So very deeply saddened that we never got access to any of the RL Lightnings. Same with Katyushas.

Yeah . . . while the Karnov (RL) is fun, getting a conventional that can disappear in it's own fog bank would be fun.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 01 April 2021, 10:29:04
So very deeply saddened that we never got access to any of the RL Lightnings. Same with Katyushas.

See, both the RL Lightning and RL Karnov are a good use of RL. And if for Katyushas you mean the Katya Ground Assault Craft, we got it from the Periphery General table in the MUL.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 01 April 2021, 11:17:36
Wait, we do?!?

Oh happy day!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 01 April 2021, 23:04:07
Wait, we do?!?

Oh happy day!

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4439/katya-ground-assault-craft-c-904 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4439/katya-ground-assault-craft-c-904)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 02 April 2021, 05:53:43
There are more than RL mechs on the MUL roster

Thanks.  I think rockets to making up for maintenance costs and lower tech pool is ingenious.  It reminds me of my Armored Core days.

I bought a MAD-4H because it looks good for an old mini and not because of impulse buying.  I'm so green though,  I don't know what else to get in a cohor: tanks, which other mechs, battle armors... I've been asking around but it's hard to gage what to do around it.  Rocket gunships sound cool too.

Also, what's a good way to pick which Legio (besides V) to run?  I know this isn't 40k with army special rules being force optional but I'm still reading up on background and history stuff.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 02 April 2021, 09:22:56
In a nutshell...

Legio I - elites
Legio II - heavy assault unit
Legio III - disorganized rabble(probably improved by the Dark Age)
Legio IV - mobile rapid reaction
Legio VI - light elements with arty, prefers to divide-and-conquer

There's also the hard-fighting dreaded Cohors Morituri.

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 02 April 2021, 09:26:40
Depends what you want to do . . . while the line Legions are fine, you have the Cohors Morituri.  They went from 3 maniples to nearly 6 under Ignatius . . . they are the shock troopers. They were created to give players the Dirty Dozen 'we who are about to die salute you' feel for the MHAF.  Supposedly the death of Ignatius predecessor was all that saved them in the latest Lothian war from being used up since they were given the sharp stinky end of the stick in every assault as they led the way.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 02 April 2021, 09:57:17
Legio III - disorganized rabble(probably improved by the Dark Age)

Actually, III Legio saw a lot of action during the last marian "adventure" (:facepalm:) into the nuFLW. III Legio Prefect´s Kilgore was worth mentioning.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 02 April 2021, 21:31:31
In a nutshell...

Legio I - elites
Legio II - heavy assault unit
Legio III - disorganized rabble(probably improved by the Dark Age)
Legio IV - mobile rapid reaction
Legio VI - light elements with arty, prefers to divide-and-conquer

There's also the hard-fighting dreaded Cohors Morituri.



II or III make the most sense for my gaming styles.  III originally caught my attention from the field manual mini rules but we're past that now.  Then again I like both their paint jobs. 

No thanks on the penal legion.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 03 April 2021, 04:42:37
Actually, III Legio saw a lot of action during the last marian "adventure" (:facepalm:) into the nuFLW. III Legio Prefect´s Kilgore was worth mentioning.

Hence "probably improved a lot by the Dark Age" ;D

If the MHAF had added more Legions after the Jihad, they would be either Comitati or Limitanei for their utility.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 03 April 2021, 04:44:30
II or III make the most sense for my gaming styles.  III originally caught my attention from the field manual mini rules but we're past that now.  Then again I like both their paint jobs. 

No thanks on the penal legion.

Pre-Jihad, III is the Marian version of Harlock's Warriors.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 03 April 2021, 22:52:28
Thank you, I'll read up on them.  Still greener than lawn grass in this setting.

Think I picked what Legio I like but I still have no idea about unit compositions when looking at MUL.  Of course I have all the time in the world tight now so that's fine.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 04 April 2021, 07:49:48
Have fun playing.

Nova Roma Victor :rockon:
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 04 April 2021, 17:53:13
And so a new Warrior of the MHAF finds his way, the II Legio is probably the best of the MHF followed by the I and IV as it seems, the III Legio in Dark Age specialized in Raids
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 05 April 2021, 19:44:11
Thanks guys, appreciate the help and welcome.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 06 April 2021, 03:38:08
I doubt the Tamarind-Canopian offensive can go any further once II Legio is deployed against them in conjunction with local Marian patriots.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 06 April 2021, 15:28:57
I doubt the Tamarind-Canopian offensive can go any further once II Legio is deployed against them in conjunction with local Marian patriots.

They are extremely over-extended and Canopus fights against Marik taking out many more worlds than the Hegemony could have taken from them, it is a crazy military adventure in Tamarindo leaving its other borders unguarded both with Lira, with the Ex Circinus Frontier than himself. Fluff says that the pirates are attacking that border because there are no Marik troops, the Border with the Wolves without protection, and the idiot of the Duke said that the Hegemony had Liaoite weapons, they are the ones that are taken from Canopus I do not know if the type is it idiotic or is it done
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 07 April 2021, 03:45:15
If Tamarind bleeds itself further and requires neoFWL reinforcements even the Regulans will revolt. Strange that the Duke can justify those Liao weapons as a Marian-Liao relationship. It's common knowledge the Marians raid Canopus and constantly pillage their Liao equipment.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 07 April 2021, 10:10:11
If Tamarind bleeds itself further and requires neoFWL reinforcements even the Regulans will revolt. Strange that the Duke can justify those Liao weapons as a Marian-Liao relationship. It's common knowledge the Marians raid Canopus and constantly pillage their Liao equipment.

If it's funny that Tamarind plays dumb about the Liao equipment used by the Hegemony, it sounds like a planned excuse to me. Moreover, it would not be strange that he has colluded with the Canopians for this attack, of course I want to think well and that they saw his face and just launched their political-military offensive with Andurien against the FWL
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 07 April 2021, 10:22:53
If it's funny that Tamarind plays dumb about the Liao equipment used by the Hegemony, it sounds like a planned excuse to me. Moreover, it would not be strange that he has colluded with the Canopians for this attack, of course I want to think well and that they saw his face and just launched their political-military offensive with Andurien against the FWL

I need to re-read SF because it just seems like Canopus is wish washy and doing its own thing... which seems normal.  Where as Tamarind is getting sanctioned and ordered to abandon it's attack of the Hegemony.  It's highly unlikely they'll get major reinforcements to defend its border, and Marik lost his supply lines so now he is going to be entrenched in a Marian province between Legionaires and resistance groups. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 07 April 2021, 16:03:06
I need to re-read SF because it just seems like Canopus is wish washy and doing its own thing... which seems normal.  Where as Tamarind is getting sanctioned and ordered to abandon it's attack of the Hegemony.  It's highly unlikely they'll get major reinforcements to defend its border, and Marik lost his supply lines so now he is going to be entrenched in a Marian province between Legionaires and resistance groups.

The entire campaign appears to be written by the Tamarindo propaganda cabinet, the Troops of Marik and Canopus cheered, with little resistance etc etc, in short, according to them nothing is going to happen.

The Marians are ugly, dirty, murderous, retrograde and idiots, that the units have been Elite / Veteran for quite some time and commented on in the previous book as the most hardened and proven of the entire periphery is anecdotal.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 08 April 2021, 04:15:21
If it's funny that Tamarind plays dumb about the Liao equipment used by the Hegemony, it sounds like a planned excuse to me. Moreover, it would not be strange that he has colluded with the Canopians for this attack, of course I want to think well and that they saw his face and just launched their political-military offensive with Andurien against the FWL

Both Tamarind and Canopus are just being opportunistic.

The entire campaign appears to be written by the Tamarindo propaganda cabinet, the Troops of Marik and Canopus cheered, with little resistance etc etc, in short, according to them nothing is going to happen.

The Marians are ugly, dirty, murderous, retrograde and idiots, that the units have been Elite / Veteran for quite some time and commented on in the previous book as the most hardened and proven of the entire periphery is anecdotal.

What's strange is this. The black-and-white portrayal of this conflict doesn't seem like the usual neutral writing. Fresh Marians are losing to overstretched Tamarind units. Granted, those Tamarind units might have plenty of experience after the Lyran wars but they're not the sort of force that can sustain a conquest.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 08 April 2021, 09:13:27
Both Tamarind and Canopus are just being opportunistic.

What's strange is this. The black-and-white portrayal of this conflict doesn't seem like the usual neutral writing. Fresh Marians are losing to overstretched Tamarind units. Granted, those Tamarind units might have plenty of experience after the Lyran wars but they're not the sort of force that can sustain a conquest.

I dunno where the bias is in the writing because I've heard a lot of stuff, I'm still new.

However Field Manual made it seem like the Legions were regularly fighting pirates, VI couldn't keep regular maintenance up from all the fighting.  Legio III was garrisoning worlds that were taken from the FWL a while back and conducting raids into it, which was even a special force rule for them for rats deployment and initiative.  Shattered Fortress comes around and the III can't even manage to stay ahead of Tamarind. 

I can't make heads or tails of it but the more I try to analyze the lack of information, the more bad it looks for everyone involved. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 April 2021, 09:26:04
Both Tamarind and Canopus are just being opportunistic.

What's strange is this. The black-and-white portrayal of this conflict doesn't seem like the usual neutral writing. Fresh Marians are losing to overstretched Tamarind units. Granted, those Tamarind units might have plenty of experience after the Lyran wars but they're not the sort of force that can sustain a conquest.

Overstretched?  Hammerfall ended in '42 or so when Seth Ward dictated terms to Jessika before the Wolves about-faced to take on the Lyrans.  Twice . . . so roughly 8 years of relative peace for the Tamarind forces who also got some of the MSC survivors IIRC.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 08 April 2021, 09:57:51
I dunno where the bias is in the writing because I've heard a lot of stuff, I'm still new.

However Field Manual made it seem like the Legions were regularly fighting pirates, VI couldn't keep regular maintenance up from all the fighting.  Legio III was garrisoning worlds that were taken from the FWL a while back and conducting raids into it, which was even a special force rule for them for rats deployment and initiative.  Shattered Fortress comes around and the III can't even manage to stay ahead of Tamarind. 

I can't make heads or tails of it but the more I try to analyze the lack of information, the more bad it looks for everyone involved.

We shall see how ilClan remedies this situation.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 08 April 2021, 11:42:56
Both Tamarind and Canopus are just being opportunistic.

What's strange is this. The black-and-white portrayal of this conflict doesn't seem like the usual neutral writing. Fresh Marians are losing to overstretched Tamarind units. Granted, those Tamarind units might have plenty of experience after the Lyran wars but they're not the sort of force that can sustain a conquest.

Not even so, the 8 of Tamarind were Regular until two days before I calculate, the Seventh of Tamarind they destroyed a battalion twice, only to see them return rebuilt and with the same veteran afterwards ...
On the other hand, the Marian units strangely do not have that speed of reposition and their mercs neither, instead Tamarindo takes out of his sleeve unnamed mercs units to garrison 6 worlds that the Hegemony occupies and another two with regulars.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 08 April 2021, 11:52:58
We shall see how ilClan remedies this situation.

I have my doubts if they want to fix their disturbances or deepen them, if it were the issue to fix them something could have appeared from mechs made in the Hegemony and even nothing at all, no mention of famous pilots or anything
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 April 2021, 11:54:51
I have my doubts if they want to fix their disturbances or deepen them, if it were the issue to fix them something could have appeared from mechs made in the Hegemony and even nothing at all, no mention of famous pilots or anything

RecGuide series is not over- I think it is what, 55%?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 08 April 2021, 12:00:46
RecGuide series is not over- I think it is what, 55%?

The Hegemony does not appear in the mechs that were supposed and even you wanted them to appear, neither in the Commando, nor in the Centurion nor in the Catapracht, tell me should I hope that we appear with good luck in the Locust?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 April 2021, 13:14:01
The Cataphract was my wish-casting for 'Roman' themed use.  Never was anything even hinting at it happening, it just IMO had a good case for being the first Hegemony heavy.

The Centurion, afaik, has not been released through the RecGuides- after a quick check I found no moratorium reference on Sarna and it was not in my RecGuides.  We DID have the CN10-B and it's MCG variants in Shrapnel #3, but that is a different kettle of fish.  Irregulars had a Centurion by what you folks have said, but I do not have that book.  I still think we will get a new Centurion on the RecGuides.

Commando?  Eh, do not care about them getting mentioned with that machine b/c it is a light and IMO the MHAF needs a native heavy to compete with their neighbor or at least a 'pocket' heavy like a up-teched Centurion.

But with the RecGuides we have seen mechs appear in places 'new' to the production of that model . . . I mean we could see a Crusader variant appear with the Marians, which I would also support- limited heavies providing fire support for the line of trooper Centurions.  ANY heavy they get will be 'new' production sites, so look at Sartis list of KS art heavies and you get a idea what the Hegemony could build.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 08 April 2021, 13:15:59
Speaking of KS, that might be influencing the famous pilots a bit. Dunno if anyone made their character a Marian.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 08 April 2021, 13:18:02
The Centurion already appeared in the Rec Guide number 10 I think, they raised 5 more tons and mentions the versions of Sharpell and only mentions the Corean Factory as its builder.

Rec Guide N° 10 Pag 13 between the Highlander and the Mongoose

What to have heavier mechs manufactured in the Marian Hegemony who would not like it?
  But if they don't even tell us to modernize or do something with Jihad tech from a light or medium mech, little hope gives me a heavy or assault mech unless it was primitive to continue to keep us as the backward brother of the periphery
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 08 April 2021, 13:48:53
Speaking of KS, that might be influencing the famous pilots a bit. Dunno if anyone made their character a Marian.

No idea, personally my involvement with the KS have been minimal. I wasnt in a economical situation to get into Wave 1, and i just got into Wave 2 a few months ago. Main issue with us Deep Periphery dwellers is the sending costs. I still remember the cost of getting a couple of 25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set down here  xp.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 April 2021, 15:35:42
The Centurion already appeared in the Rec Guide number 10 I think, they raised 5 more tons and mentions the versions of Sharpell and only mentions the Corean Factory as its builder.

Rec Guide N° 10 Pag 13 between the Highlander and the Mongoose

What to have heavier mechs manufactured in the Marian Hegemony who would not like it?
  But if they don't even tell us to modernize or do something with Jihad tech from a light or medium mech, little hope gives me a heavy or assault mech unless it was primitive to continue to keep us as the backward brother of the periphery

Okay, I did not get #10, one of the few I passed on.  The Shrapnel #3 Centurion was the 10-B, what had been a one off from 3060-ish . . . something like 10 years ago.  All Shrapnel did was canonize the other MCG versions from the game.

We still have quite a few KS art mechs/entries to go.  IIRC the TC (MAD-2T), MoC (SHD-5H & -7H), and OA (via Ravens) have gotten new production . . . I expect to get something new sprinkled this way.

As for the last part of your sentence, it is asked and answered . . . you are complaining about the defining characteristics of the faction.  1st strike against them is they are a Periphery faction.  2nd strike is they are a new periphery faction (IE, no OA, TC or MoC).  3rd strike is they were not a Star League possession at any point.  Being ignored at best and backhanded by plot if mentioned is going to be part of the faction flavor.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 08 April 2021, 15:49:07
A RetroTech Cataphract could be fun, even if I have no clue what kind of product it might appear in... :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 April 2021, 16:13:48
A RetroTech Cataphract could be fun, even if I have no clue what kind of product it might appear in... :)

Which is why I was hoping it was a Marian entry in the RecGuide, especially with the CN9-H and C9-Ar for options that it grew out of.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 08 April 2021, 16:21:07
A RetroTech Cataphract could be fun, even if I have no clue what kind of product it might appear in... :)

Crux sancta sit mihi lux / non draco sit mihi dux / vade retro satana / numquam suade mihi vana / sunt mala quae libas / ipse venena bibas

Which is why I was hoping it was a Marian entry in the RecGuide, especially with the CN9-H and C9-Ar for options that it grew out of.

Yeah, the Centurion variant in RecGuide 10 is the 10-D, the upgrade of the ones that appeared in Sharpnell. My own theory is that the old Corean Centurion line was re-purposed for the Omni Centurion.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 08 April 2021, 16:23:17
Which is why I was hoping it was a Marian entry in the RecGuide, especially with the CN9-H and C9-Ar for options that it grew out of.

You keep bringing up the CN9-Ar. Is it stated that we build them, or do we simply have MUL access?

Crux sancta sit mihi lux / non draco sit mihi dux / vade retro satana / numquam suade mihi vana / sunt mala quae libas / ipse venena bibas

He likes my idea so much that he's speaking in tongues!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 08 April 2021, 16:30:30
You keep bringing up the CN9-Ar. Is it stated that we build them, or do we simply have MUL access?

As far as i know the 9-Ar is a refit of the introtech 9-A, no mention of production. The Marians got it with the Periphery General tab.

He likes my idea so much that he's speaking in tongues!

Once you get into 2 factions that uses Latin, it grews unto you.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 08 April 2021, 16:32:15
So likely no more special than any of the many other mechs we get that aren't produced domestically, gotcha.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 08 April 2021, 16:34:18
We still have quite a few KS art mechs/entries to go.  IIRC the TC (MAD-2T), MoC (SHD-5H & -7H), and OA (via Ravens) have gotten new production . . . I expect to get something new sprinkled this way.

Got the info about the Royal Marauder and Warhammer beign produced in the TC some years ago here in the forum. The TC also produced the oyal Thunderbolt, and apparently that line was used to do the abomination called the Thunderbolt -9T.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 08 April 2021, 16:35:30
So likely no more special than any of the many other mechs we get that aren't produced domestically, gotcha.

Same with the Commando -2Dr. Actually, a lot of "r" are just field refits.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 08 April 2021, 18:01:56
I was surprised the Marian commando was in the general periphery rats at least.

Yeah I know that's nothing.  Dunno why I mentioned that.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 April 2021, 18:45:43
Got the info about the Royal Marauder and Warhammer beign produced in the TC some years ago here in the forum. The TC also produced the oyal Thunderbolt, and apparently that line was used to do the abomination called the Thunderbolt -9T.

I said the -2T, not the -2R . . . granted it is a minor change but it IS a expansion on what they already produce.

But to Weirdo's point, I bring up the Ar because it means at least they have a source for HPPC & LPPC if they do not make them at home.  I figure their source of CN9-Ars are any salvage or bought up ones that get shipped back to Hegemony space and spend time at the refit yard.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 08 April 2021, 18:54:49
I was surprised the Marian commando was in the general periphery rats at least.

Yeah I know that's nothing.  Dunno why I mentioned that.

I interpret that as having the entire Periphery, let's say it is a very easy mech to maintain the COD-4H and not too much to arm around 3145
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 08 April 2021, 21:18:12
Not even so, the 8 of Tamarind were Regular until two days before I calculate, the Seventh of Tamarind they destroyed a battalion twice, only to see them return rebuilt and with the same veteran afterwards ...
On the other hand, the Marian units strangely do not have that speed of reposition and their mercs neither, instead Tamarindo takes out of his sleeve unnamed mercs units to garrison 6 worlds that the Hegemony occupies and another two with regulars.

I'm going to make a theory that fits acceptable facts; I love Tamarind-Abbey but part of that love lies in how ridiculously sad-sack they are (the Lyrans invading them just before Stone's Coalition liberated Terra, having them withdraw from the Coalition after doing heavy-lifting against the Blakists throughout the Jihad but just before the rewards of victory were being handed out is one of my favorite moments), so I think I'm up to it.

FM3145's ratings and the Shattered Fortress narrative are pretty unambiguous that man-for-man and mech-for-mech the Marians are better than the Tamarinds (and by late 3150 for one the 7th Tamarind Regulars are definitely much worse than they were in 3145). If it was an even fight, the Marians won. If the Tamarinds stuck it out, it meant they took serious losses when they lost instead of cursory losses (the Tamarinds didn't always stick it out). The Marians didn't lose in even fights to the Tamarind Regulars, though. The lost in multi-regiment team ups (the one involving the mauled 7th also involving the much better 1st) and to Camacho's Caballeros until Illyria, which came down to a strategy. (Tamarind-Abbey successfully masking their strategic redeployment, the Illyrian system defenses being countered by Tamarind assault droppers, the initial ground defense able to be overwhelmed by multiple regiments and a swarm of mercs thrown in, then the locals (cultural Rasalhagues, bear in mind) revolted in the Duchy's favor instead of forming a resistance, and then there was finally an actual fight when III Legio returned from the Gibraltar prominence, which was lost.

I assume the Canopan punitive expedition is what has III Legio so exposed for so long making all that possible though; absent knowing that the Magistracy regards the matter as settled Alphard can't be uncovered. So Killgore is running around like a one-armed paper hanger, having to use his own spearhead as a reserve. Anyways it's possible to make a theory that doesn't require anything ridiculous; the biggest thing I think is the Illyrian sympathetic revolt instead of a resistance. That probably decided everything regarding things being as they are; nothing actually contradicts there being an eventual Marian counterstrike other than the notion that they can't expose themselves to possible Canopan action (which is just a notion)- Illyria falling quickly (or at all) required the locals. The Illyrian campaign was risky if discovered but feasible (Killgore was pushing on an open door for one or two worlds he took but didn't realize it). As for Duke Fontaine hiring mercenaries it's the era for it and he's in funds as the House Marik patriarch (he once absconded from his capital with Mule packed full of artwork like a Napoleonic Bourbon fleeing Naples). He's probably good for it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 08 April 2021, 21:53:28
I'm going to make a theory that fits acceptable facts; I love Tamarind-Abbey but part of that love lies in how ridiculously sad-sack they are (the Lyrans invading them just before Stone's Coalition liberated Terra, having them withdraw from the Coalition after doing heavy-lifting against the Blakists throughout the Jihad but just before the rewards of victory were being handed out is one of my favorite moments), so I think I'm up to it.

FM3145's ratings and the Shattered Fortress narrative are pretty unambiguous that man-for-man and mech-for-mech the Marians are better than the Tamarinds (and by late 3150 for one the 7th Tamarind Regulars are definitely much worse than they were in 3145). If it was an even fight, the Marians won. If the Tamarinds stuck it out, it meant they took serious losses when they lost instead of cursory losses (the Tamarinds didn't always stick it out). The Marians didn't lose in even fights to the Tamarind Regulars, though. The lost in multi-regiment team ups (the one involving the mauled 7th also involving the much better 1st) and to Camacho's Caballeros until Illyria, which came down to a strategy. (Tamarind-Abbey successfully masking their strategic redeployment, the Illyrian system defenses being countered by Tamarind assault droppers, the initial ground defense able to be overwhelmed by multiple regiments and a swarm of mercs thrown in, then the locals (cultural Rasalhagues, bear in mind) revolted in the Duchy's favor instead of forming a resistance, and then there was finally an actual fight when III Legio returned from the Gibraltar prominence, which was lost.

I assume the Canopan punitive expedition is what has III Legio so exposed for so long making all that possible though; absent knowing that the Magistracy regards the matter as settled Alphard can't be uncovered. So Killgore is running around like a one-armed paper hanger, having to use his own spearhead as a reserve. Anyways it's possible to make a theory that doesn't require anything ridiculous; the biggest thing I think is the Illyrian sympathetic revolt instead of a resistance. That probably decided everything regarding things being as they are; nothing actually contradicts there being an eventual Marian counterstrike other than the notion that they can't expose themselves to possible Canopan action (which is just a notion)- Illyria falling quickly (or at all) required the locals. The Illyrian campaign was risky if discovered but feasible (Killgore was pushing on an open door for one or two worlds he took but didn't realize it). As for Duke Fontaine hiring mercenaries it's the era for it and he's in funds as the House Marik patriarch (he once absconded from his capital with Mule packed full of artwork like a Napoleonic Bourbon fleeing Naples). He's probably good for it.

We go in parts like Jack says

The Illyrian Revolt I see it very doubtful since nowhere says it, it is but the last attempt at organized revolt dates from 3085 I think there is nothing even remotely organized, there are ethnic Rasalagheans but they should not be a majority by far

In terms of strategies, you can be lucky once, but always?

As for the Tamarindo units, especially the 7th Regulars, they twice crashed and were beaten, but one of their battalions was destroyed in Tormentine, but after months they appear full force to attack and with the same rank of veteran?

The 8th Regulars I think they were Regular in the best of cases and I don't see that they could face Legio I or II Legio face to face and stay there for a long time.

The 1st Regulars if he is Elite, the same as the Camacho Caballeros, but they cannot be everywhere, another thing that annoys is that they put the Alba Wing and the II Caelum Wing off of when both units are Veteran / Elite and fanatic loyalty, in the story they say little more than break ranks and run, as it does not fit with everything previously written.

Apart from the little speech on moral superiority and shooting surrendered prisoners ,,,,, where was Marik?
If I have to accept this, I hope that in the almost impossible case that the next author gives us a twist and victory, no one will be shocked if the good duke and his officers Camacho included end up crucified on the shoulder of a total mech, if we leave to behave like savages return of attention should be something that does not scandalize anyone, right?

Another Theme is our Mercs, fundamentally the Dragonslayers to be at 100% in 3145, in the campaign they are at 30% and they look like a band of beggars
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 08 April 2021, 22:22:16

As for the Tamarindo units, especially the 7th Regulars, they twice crashed and were beaten, but one of their battalions was destroyed in Tormentine, but after months they appear full force to attack and with the same rank of veteran?


Lost three times in fact; twice badly- the 3rd Battalion was wrecked on Tormentine and Gibralter both. It's a safe assumption that their FM3145 stats will have slipped a bit when they make landfall on Illyria- but bear in mind Shattered Fortress doesn't give them a rank. They're probably  a mess- boots on the ground, though.

Quote
another thing that annoys is that they put the Alba Wing and the II Caelum Wing off of when both units are Veteran / Elite and fanatic loyalty, in the story they say little more than break ranks and run, as it does not fit with everything previously written.

It says they ran into more Assault Dropships than they could handle, and the one good factory Tamarind-Abbey has is an aerospace one.


Morality doesn't really obtain, Duke Fontaine is no mechwarrior (he is exceptionally dogged though)... the Marians just got outnumbered and overwhelmed on certain planets on the Tamarind front after the war expanded, against people that could force planetary landings against aerospace fighter wings. I think the Duchy has mostly shot its bolt (and the Marians mostly haven't- but they may not end up shooting); if Illyria were hostile to the Tamarinds it would be going badly; turns out it isn't.

EDIT: I think you might be being thrown off by the tone of that one Tamarind Inquirer propaganda blurb- which is obviously a propaganda blurb. The Dragonslayers decline engagement and flee from superior forces without contact- it's presented as a combat victory. Worlds we know that Kilgore invaded and conquered as described as having temporarily lost contact. A Cohors makes a stand with no notable losses and then retreats offworld losing a single company transport to deep-space encounter- presented as a rout. The triumpalism is in-universe tone from an in-faction news rag. I and II Legios have lost troops, III is mauled, and Illyria has fallen... but the Hegemony is still a better positioned than it was in 3085 and the Tamarinds needed a short war- Duke Fontaine fully meant to stop right there, which is non-fluff text information.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 08 April 2021, 22:44:43
What is not hostile to Tamarind we will see, it would not be smart, it will show hostility to an occupying force when you cannot do too much to the contrary, a couple of months later we will see it, if it begins to attack, there will be patrols or bombs when passing vehicles It will be seen, apart from that not all the population can think the same, as I told you the last rebellion in Illyria was 12 Mechs from a group without any kind of support that the II Legio neighborhood when they wanted to kill the Governor.

Apart from the fact that it is not, Tamarind says, it still sounds like justifying propaganda for the sanctions of the parliament

Equally neglect surely our legions have 90% of primitive mech, retrotech and RL according to what they have been writing that seems to be the attitude of the authors, the Marian Hegemony the living museum
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 08 April 2021, 23:00:21

Equally neglect surely our legions have 90% of primitive mech, retrotech and RL according to what they have been writing that seems to be the attitude of the authors, the Marian Hegemony the living museum

The Marians have slightly better equipment ratings than their enemies, and they are written as having noticeably better combat performance than their (non-main character mercenary regiment) enemies when there is numerical parity and being able to withdraw without significant loss most of the time when they decide to. They are obviously better than the Tamarindians, possibly better equipped, probably better field-officers. They just got into a bigger war than they seem to have meant to (the expansion of their campaign to the Rim Commonality and Magistracy of Canopus requires explanation- but having happened the subsequent events make sense), and the choice of Illyria as a target is written as inspired (and not having to follow the format of a 3rd Succession War province-capital conquest/wreck-your-regiments-trying-to-hold-it-and-lock-it-down-while-fighting-local-resistance does sell that).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 08 April 2021, 23:07:43
The Marians have slightly better equipment ratings than their enemies, and they are written as having noticeably better combat performance than their (non-main character mercenary regiment) enemies when there is numerical parity and being able to withdraw without significant loss most of the time when they decide to. They are obviously better than the Tamarindians, possibly better equipped, probably better field-officers. They just got into a bigger war than they seem to have meant to (the expansion of their campaign to the Rim Commonality and Magistracy of Canopus requires explanation- but having happened the subsequent events make sense), and the choice of Illyria as a target is written as inspired (and not having to follow the format of a 3rd Succession War province-capital conquest/wreck-your-regiments-trying-to-hold-it-and-lock-it-down-while-fighting-local-resistance does sell that).

Curious you are the first who says that we are better armed and better trained than those of Tamarind, the Illyrian "happiness" does not make any sense. They have been citizens since 3070 and their nobles directly elect their senators and representatives to the House of the People. They are patricians and the Hegemony invested a lot to develop their worlds, that is why I tell you that that smells of justifying propaganda to me, a deep wave of the Soviets invading Hungary and saying people love us!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 08 April 2021, 23:32:10
Curious you are the first who says that we are better armed and better trained than those of Tamarind, the Illyrian "happiness" does not make any sense. They have been citizens since 3070 and their nobles directly elect their senators and representatives to the House of the People. They are patricians and the Hegemony invested a lot to develop their worlds, that is why I tell you that that smells of justifying propaganda to me, a deep wave of the Soviets invading Hungary and saying people love us!

I'm going by the provided information, which can be interpreted unsentimentally. FM3145 has Marian units spread from A-C, Rim Commonality and Tamarind units are C's with B and D. Shattered Fortress has the initial fights between forces of comparable size that the Marians tend to win handedly, and the later fights after getting fronts against the Rim Commonality and Canopus being concentrations of force against the Marians with the Marians as often as not either getting away clean or making a defense and withdrawing. Or getting bounced by the Caballeros. On Illyria when the Tamarinds landed (in overwhelming force) there was a popular uprising and they were able to capture the governor when he went to ground and beat III Legio when it arrived later. The Illyrian populace throwing in with the Duchy is extremely important for that outcome (as the conquest and defense of Illyria is the only place the Marians have mass-casualty events beyond two battalion-level things, or even losing fights that they stick with long enough to lose enough people to matter) and it's justifiable as a possibility.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 08 April 2021, 23:40:16
I'm going by the provided information, which can be interpreted unsentimentally. FM3145 has Marian units spread from A-C, Rim Commonality and Tamarind units are C's with B and D. Shattered Fortress has the initial fights between forces of comparable size that the Marians tend to win handedly, and the later fights after getting fronts against the Rim Commonality and Canopus being concentrations of force against the Marians with the Marians as often as not either getting away clean or making a defense and withdrawing. Or getting bounced by the Caballeros. On Illyria when the Tamarinds landed (in overwhelming force) there was a popular uprising and they were able to capture the governor when he went to ground and beat III Legio when it arrived later. The Illyrian populace throwing in with the Duchy is extremely important for that outcome (as the conquest and defense of Illyria is the only place the Marians have mass-casualty events beyond two battalion-level things, or even losing fights that they stick with long enough to lose enough people to matter) and it's justifiable as a possibility.

It will be seen, we do not have too much hope, it sounds too much like they want us as a commitment duck between Marik and Canopus, an Oh Look, I am shamelessly stealing 20 worlds from you but I make you care about a series of minor border clashes with a nation with which you've always had border fights, and I also do that I convince Rim Commonality idiots in the process to want to back you up while I Canopus invade them and allied with Andurien to loot more systems in the process and supported by Liao ....
I wonder who sold the mailbox to the Duke that the Hegemony acted by directives or help from Capella

And I don't even tell you if the Lirans happen to cross the border on their side because they left only one regiment there
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 08 April 2021, 23:56:50
It will be seen, we do not have too much hope, it sounds too much like they want us as a commitment duck between Marik and Canopus, an Oh Look, I am shamelessly stealing 20 worlds from you but I make you care about a series of minor border clashes with a nation with which you've always had border fights, and I also do that I convince Rim Commonality idiots in the process to want to back you up while I Canopus invade them and allied with Andurien to loot more systems in the process and supported by Liao ....
I wonder who sold the mailbox to the Duke that the Hegemony acted by directives or help from Capella

And I don't even tell you if the Lirans happen to cross the border on their side because they left only one regiment there

The FWLM is garrisoning Regulus, and the Regulan Hussars are garrisoning the Lyran border. The Marian campaign against Canopus and the Rim Commonality is very important to the current state of affairs, and warrants further explanation although leaving it at "victory disease" can be choked down (this all may have ultimately been a poorly-thought out/well-thought out diversion from the Andurien front- depending if it was a Canopan, Andurien, or Capellan thought). SAFE isn't actually incompetent (they had an agent as the current-Archon's personal aide back during HAMMERFALL), so "SAFE told Duke Fontaine the Canopans were going to do quite a bit more than just take their worlds back" could remain an explanation.

The real winners of this conflict (aside from the Anduriens) are the Wolves, I think- Fontaine Marik has the will to advocate fighting Alaric over the FWL worlds lost in HAMMERFALL (although he also has the will to say "They're gone.") and he's busy with something else right now.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 09 April 2021, 00:03:48
The FWLM is garrisoning Regulus, and the Regulan Hussars are garrisoning the Lyran border. The Marian campaign against Canopus and the Rim Commonality is very important to the current state of affairs, and warrants further explanation although leaving it at "victory disease" can be choked down (this all may have ultimately been a poorly-thought out/well-thought out diversion from the Andurien front- depending if it was a Canopan, Andurien, or Capellan thought). SAFE isn't actually incompetent (they had an agent as the current-Archon's personal aide back during HAMMERFALL), so "SAFE told Duke Fontaine the Canopans were going to do quite a bit more than just take their worlds back" could remain an explanation.

The real winners of this conflict (aside from the Anduriens) are the Wolves, I think- Fontaine Marik has the will to advocate fighting Alaric over the FWL worlds lost in HAMMERFALL (although he also has the will to say "They're gone.") and he's busy with something else right now.

This ... your defense of the border are ultra questionable units of whom are they loyal, after the occupation and hungry siege of their systems? And then what to agree not to aggression with the pirates of Circinus? (Which by the way is looting all the systems on its side according to what the TRO 3150 says)
It has been a while since I had such a good talk on strategic issues ..., since when most of us decided not to have them anymore and we made a group just ours on Facebook to chat, ruminate and make our things clear
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 09 April 2021, 00:50:56
Edit Edit 2: Greekfire mentioned the missing link on page 38 of the Marians seizing worlds in the Tamarind before which I never read.  So yeah, this is still a reprisal attack.

Starting off with the depth of the Tamarind invasion (I legitimately thought MH invaded them first, durp), SF is only just specific in mentioning how contested the province capitol is: Legio III being demoralized and by years end Marik controlling the heart of the Illyrian province.  It started off with the provincial forces being displaced on raids or counter invading the Duchy, Marik landing, and Kilgore attacking worlds to breakout of FWL forces before dying on the capitol once the Duchy's defenses were exposed as tied up invading.  The FFW government itself is more pre-occupied with worrying about the Republic force in another theater entirely.

Still not enough buildup to gleam data from the conflict, but at least II isn't tied by Canopus, the IV and VI are.  Not really sure where the bulk of the rest Legions are right now but I and II aren't hurting like III is, which is still technically stuck.  II is still raiding the Duchy and only the Prima Cohor is mentioned as far as I read that side news blip.  Back to the Canopian front, the IV and VI forces look purely like auxiliary forces and the bulk of both legions isn't accounted for since being pushed out of MAC space.  Like I brought up earlier, the Legions are spread thin over such a large operational theater that we don't know where half of the active elements are.  Where as Marik is on a chopping block of potential sanctions and his only allies are independents blocking Clay in Parliament.  He has next to no supply lines because of the II and III  raids into Tamarind, so only the Illyrian local uprising can support him.  His forces are now bogged into MH territory that even if the FWL news says the Marian defenses are breaking, there are multiple active cohors that can still come counter-attack him.
Including the Morituri and I which weren't notably listed at all.  I don't know what I's strength is after the Lothian War but it's probably still at a legitimate operational capacity.

I apologize for the multiple edits, I'm typing as I re-read SF trying to memorize what little unit composition and deployments we have.  I also apologize for misreading Rim Commonality in the initial invasion.  I might have been right about the Hegemony invading two nations with next to no buildup, but I misread that important paragraph about the Marik invasion.   I thought it was a reprisal for invading (admittedly we actively raid them) their territory when it was other periphery nations and that the Marik invasion is a preemptive strike and attack of opportunity.  I still think trying to pick a fight with the Magistry and RC was absurdly stupid though.  None of the writing can justify kicking the MH down just to make Marik look good (it doesn't at all) and build up unnecessary tension in the FWL.  Would have been better to just colonize or expand into nearby worlds like the Facebook group is discussing and the FWL fight over reclaiming worlds lost to the Wolves.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 09 April 2021, 08:24:37
Edit: After several edits and recovering from a minor concussion last week I've re-read the Marian portion of SF.  Please bear with me and correct me on mistakes.  I still don't know the star map well and it occurred to me I completely misread the opening to the Blitzkrieg.  Rewriting this from scratch is a pain so I'm re-editing section by section as I understand more of what happened. 

Starting off with the depth of the Tamarind invasion (I legitimately thought MH invaded them first, durp), SF is only just specific in mentioning how contested the province capitol is: Legio III being demoralized and by years end Marik controlling the heart of the Illyrian province.  It started off with the provincial forces being displaced on raids or counter invading the Duchy, Marik landing, and Kilgore attacking worlds to breakout of FWL forces before dying on the capitol once the Duchy's defenses were exposed as tied up invading.  The FFW government itself is more pre-occupied with worrying about the Republic force in another theater entirely.

Still not enough buildup to gleam data from the conflict, but at least II isn't tied by Canopus, the IV and VI are.  Not really sure where the bulk of the rest Legions are right now but I and II aren't hurting like III is, which is still technically stuck.  II is still raiding the Duchy and only the Prima Cohor is mentioned as far as I read that side news blip.  Back to the Canopian front, the IV and VI forces look purely like auxiliary forces and the bulk of both legions isn't accounted for since being pushed out of MAC space.  Like I brought up earlier, the Legions are spread thin over such a large operational theater that we don't know where half of the active elements are.  Where as Marik is on a chopping block of potential sanctions and his only allies are independents blocking Clay in Parliament.  He has next to no supply lines because of the II and III  raids into Tamarind, so only the Illyrian local uprising can support him.  His forces are now bogged into MH territory that even if the FWL news says the Marian defenses are breaking, there are multiple active cohors that can still come counter-attack him.
Including the Morituri and I which weren't notably listed at all.  I don't know what I's strength is after the Lothian War but it's probably still at a legitimate operational capacity.

I apologize for the multiple edits, I'm typing as I re-read SF trying to memorize what little unit composition and deployments we have.  I also apologize for misreading Rim Commonality in the initial invasion.  I might have been right about the Hegemony invading two nations with next to no buildup, but I misread that important paragraph about the Marik invasion.   I thought it was a reprisal for invading (admittedly we actively raid them) their territory when it was other periphery nations and that the Marik invasion is a preemptive strike and attack of opportunity.  I still think trying to pick a fight with the Magistry and RC was absurdly stupid though.  None of the writing can justify kicking the MH down just to make Marik look good (it doesn't at all) and build up unnecessary tension in the FWL.  Would have been better to just colonize or expand into nearby worlds like the Facebook group is discussing and the FWL fight over reclaiming worlds lost to the Wolves.


Do not try to find any discernible strategy for the Shattered Fortress author of that section nor did he bother to read Field Manual and Era Report 3145, where he clearly states that no more Raids against Marik were authorized, no invasions and that the Legions had entrenched themselves by Ignatius's fear of invasion,
The attacks on both the Rim Comonality and the MOC is the most insane thing in existence, and the commanders of these legions are known as doing nothing without orders, particularly the IV Legion.

Another thing is that, as you say, there were almost no mech troops involved in the fighting with Canopus, mostly ASF and Auxilia, but hey ...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 09 April 2021, 08:47:18
Caesar did authorize raids on the FWL on the condition their worlds remained garrisoned.  Meanwhile he was planning for a combined FWL reprisal, and instead we get Lyran'd in the side.

We have no idea what the Legio composition is now after V defected.  We dunno if they have more mechs, less mechs, additional cohors.  For all we know we could have had Legio VII waiting to get off the ground, but I highly doubt the writers want to expand here.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 09 April 2021, 09:00:40
Caesar did authorize raids on the FWL on the condition their worlds remained garrisoned.  Meanwhile he was planning for a combined FWL reprisal, and instead we get Lyran'd in the side.

We have no idea what the Legio composition is now after V defected.  We dunno if they have more mechs, less mechs, additional cohors.  For all we know we could have had Legio VII waiting to get off the ground, but I highly doubt the writers want to expand here.

The Legio have five mech cohors, a wing wing, in some cases reinforced and at least 2 Auxiliary Legions for each Legion of Mechs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 09 April 2021, 10:03:50
So editing my previous post, I didn't read page 38 on the whole Capellan proxy war thing.

Now I'm left stumped and twiddling my thumbs.  Still don't know why the Marians attacked Canopus unless it was just a ruse.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 09 April 2021, 10:11:38
So editing my previous post, I didn't read page 38 on the whole Capellan proxy war thing.

Now I'm left stumped and twiddling my thumbs.  Still don't know why the Marians attacked Canopus unless it was just a ruse.

That there is something strange in all the actions, yes, there is, for example that of the V Legio in the front line to be massacred was something free, the V Legio should be in the Province of Alphard training and they send it to the front line?
Apart with less than 2 years of working as a unit since until 3145 Ignatius was reluctant to give the order to reformulate it, I mean, everything is increasingly rare.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sharpnel on 09 April 2021, 10:15:27
Pardon me for asking, but in which book(s) does this 'war' with the Canopians/FWL/Lyrans occur. I don't recall reading it any where before.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 09 April 2021, 10:27:40
Pardon me for asking, but in which book(s) does this 'war' with the Canopians/FWL/Lyrans occur. I don't recall reading it any where before.

Are we talking about the Lyran-FWL? conflict that was shorted because of the Wolves nailing the Lyrans a few books back or we still talking about this Capellan backed-proxy conflict orgy between the Marians-Tamarind-Canopians that was kind of short handed in Shattered Fortress?

Adacas: Yeah I finally found it on page 78 with the Legio being supposedly destroyed after being trapped.  Which sucks I guess but I'm more annoyed how important information like this isn't coherently into the actual section of Marik/Marian like it should be.  I guess if you want to rationalize the Marians getting stupidly over confident, but then they could have just not wrote about the V being reformed and subsequently destroyed the following sentence in the part of the book that is about the Wolf Empire just to make it seem like the FWL isn't entirely incompetent without the clan protectorate. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sharpnel on 09 April 2021, 10:48:17
Pardon me for asking, but in which book(s) does this 'war' with the Canopians/FWL/Lyrans occur. I don't recall reading it any where before.
I was asking about the wars that the Marians are fighting with the above mentioned nations.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 09 April 2021, 10:52:53


Adacas: Yeah I finally found it on page 78 with the Legio being supposedly destroyed after being trapped.  Which sucks I guess but I'm more annoyed how important information like this isn't coherently into the actual section of Marik/Marian like it should be.  I guess if you want to rationalize the Marians getting stupidly over confident, but then they could have just not wrote about the V being reformed and subsequently destroyed the following sentence in the part of the book that is about the Wolf Empire just to make it seem like the FWL isn't entirely incompetent without the clan protectorate.

The Formation / Destruction of the V Legio is one of the points that makes the most noise to me in all that campaign, a Legion Green with less than two years of training sent to the front line ..., it gives me to take it as a literary freedom of the author to show the "superiority" of the FWL, because it does not enter into any mind that the MHAF commanders of the best commanders in the area are going to send an untested Legion to be slaughtered, as I told them elsewhere The rationale was to keep the V Legio in the Province of Alphard training with the Winfield Regiment in Suetonius, thus improving the two units, and send to the IV Legio a Veteran unit, well armed and combat tested that would have caused much more damage. to the Camacho Caballeros than the newcomers of the V Legio.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 09 April 2021, 10:55:23
I was asking about the wars that the Marians are fighting with the above mentioned nations.

With Lyra none, with Tamarindo if a war is being fought and you want me to tell you to send four regiments to two systems and occupy them, it sounds like a declaration of war to me (Canopus)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 09 April 2021, 11:01:37
I was asking about the wars that the Marians are fighting with the above mentioned nations.

Shattered Fortress

The Marians invaded the Duchy on page 38.  The Marians then invaded the Canopus on 88 and the Canopians repelled and subsequently invaded them.  Seeing the visible opening, Marik invaded the Hegemony on 89 taking worlds the FWL lost in the Jihad and attacked the capitol of the Illyrian province instead of taking back all of the worlds the MHAF had taken from him and leaving his planets open to further raids and invasions.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 09 April 2021, 11:06:04

Adacas: Yeah I finally found it on page 78 with the Legio being supposedly destroyed after being trapped.  Which sucks I guess but I'm more annoyed how important information like this isn't coherently into the actual section of Marik/Marian like it should be.  I guess if you want to rationalize the Marians getting stupidly over confident, but then they could have just not wrote about the V being reformed and subsequently destroyed the following sentence in the part of the book that is about the Wolf Empire just to make it seem like the FWL isn't entirely incompetent without the clan protectorate.

That would be the page 89 Tamarind Inquirer fluff section. Calm down and actually read it. The size of the Legio III force on Huntington isn't given. That none of them could leave isn't said. The size of the force stranded isn't given. Legio III formations are active after this event- (Secunda Cohors is annihilated again in the next sentence on another planet)* and the Legio III attack that takes Tormentine is referred to later in the same article as a temporary loss of communications. What is actually being said is that Huntington was retaken and whatever defenders there retreated, with losses due to reduced transport capacity which required two weeks of further operations on-planet on the Duchy's part. The Marian conflict in Shattered Fortress is a far more sensible affair than has been presented.

EDIT:*That was II Legio's Secunda. III Legio still takes Tormentine.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 09 April 2021, 11:15:37
That would be the page 89 Tamarind Inquirer fluff section. Calm down and actually read it. The size of the Legio III force on Huntington isn't given. That none of them could leave isn't said. The size of the force stranded isn't given. Legio III formations are active after this event- (Secunda Cohors is annihilated again in the next sentence on another planet)* and the Legio III attack that takes Tormentine is referred to later in the same article as a temporary loss of communications. What is actually being said is that Huntington was retaken and whatever defenders there retreated, with losses due to reduced transport capacity which required two weeks of further operations on-planet on the Duchy's part. The Marian conflict in Shattered Fortress is a far more sensible affair than has been presented.

EDIT:*That was II Legio's Secunda. III Legio still takes Tormentine.

Let's say that at least the whole conflict was roughly exposed, there is a fairly clear intention of putting Tamarindo as the "Davion Super Pilots of the 4th War of Succession" against a group of peripheral yokels (although it is not the case until 5 minutes before starting the war)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 09 April 2021, 11:17:35
That would be the page 89 Tamarind Inquirer fluff section. Calm down and actually read it. The size of the Legio III force on Huntington isn't given. That none of them could leave isn't said. The size of the force stranded isn't given. Legio III formations are active after this event- (Secunda Cohors is annihilated again in the next sentence on another planet)* and the Legio III attack that takes Tormentine is referred to later in the same article as a temporary loss of communications. What is actually being said is that Huntington was retaken and whatever defenders there retreated, with losses due to reduced transport capacity which required two weeks of further operations on-planet on the Duchy's part. The Marian conflict in Shattered Fortress is a far more sensible affair than has been presented.

EDIT:*That was II Legio's Secunda. III Legio still takes Tormentine.

I think you missed the quote there but you should probably follow your own advice then because I'm talking about something else.

I'm referring to V Legio getting two sentences on being reformed and then destroyed by the Caballeros on Maximillian.  I already stated further above what happened to III during the more important part of when Kilgore went back to MH space. 

The Marians are doing fairly well for overconfidently (and pointlessly) attacking too many people.  It's not Regulans getting dumped on by Marik's pet Sea Foxes but it's not really good for Marik and Hegemony forces. 

The issue I'm complaining about here is the scattered information juggled throughout the book and mentioning the V Legio and overall FWL incompetence to the response was almost pointless.  Mostly because for cross reference, I don't want to be arse deep in the Wolf Campaign against the Republic to find second hand lore on Marians. 

This is like reading 40k codexes where one faction does something and you find out in someone elses codex that they reciprocated or that you easily missed something.  At least keep it together for the sake of cohesion.

Now if it turns out the Marians and Canopus skirmish was a ruse to lure Tamarind into invading so the Marians can pincer them, I would be impressed.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 09 April 2021, 11:46:10
I think you missed the quote there but you should probably follow your own advice then because I'm talking about something else.

I'm referring to V Legio getting two sentences on being reformed and then destroyed by the Caballeros on Maximillian.  I already stated further above what happened to III during the more important part of when Kilgore went back to MH space. 

The Marians are doing fairly well for overconfidently (and pointlessly) attacking too many people.  It's not Regulans getting dumped on by Marik's pet Sea Foxes but it's not really good for Marik and Hegemony forces. 

The issue I'm complaining about here is the scattered information juggled throughout the book and mentioning the V Legio and overall FWL incompetence to the response was almost pointless.  Mostly because for cross reference, I don't want to be arse deep in the Wolf Campaign against the Republic to find second hand lore on Marians. 

This is like reading 40k codexes where one faction does something and you find out in someone elses codex that they reciprocated or that you easily missed something.  At least keep it together for the sake of cohesion.

Now if it turns out the Marians and Canopus skirmish was a ruse to lure Tamarind into invading so the Marians can pincer them, I would be impressed.

Welcome to my world hahahaha, in general, all the information about the Hegemony has just come to us second-hand, in someone else's book or by very specific mentions unless an Era Report or a Field Manual is published, it is always like that
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 09 April 2021, 11:53:23
I already lived in your world when Chaos Marines got screwed for three editions a row.  Right now I'm hoping ilClan has a new periphery report or field manual so we can see how the powers have changed in a century as well as keep ranks and logistics updated.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 09 April 2021, 12:01:13
I already lived in your world when Chaos Marines got screwed for three editions a row.  Right now I'm hoping ilClan has a new periphery report or field manual so we can see how the powers have changed in a century as well as keep ranks and logistics updated.

Hahaha, Chaos SM? I am Tau Empire my friend and I can assure you that we have more mentions scattered by the other codex than anyone

I doubt that they will change the publication format and I doubt that the Hegemony will see what is written in SF positively and because of the complete absence of mention in the Recon Guide
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 09 April 2021, 12:02:46
Hahaha, Chaos SM? I am Tau Empire my friend and I can assure you that we have more mentions scattered by the other codex than anyone

I doubt that they will change the publication format and I doubt that the Hegemony will see what is written in SF positively and because of the complete absence of mention in the Recon Guide

Think Eldar had you tied. 

Recon Guide?  What Recon Guide?  What else do I need to read now?!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 09 April 2021, 12:25:02
Think Eldar had you tied. 

Recon Guide?  What Recon Guide?  What else do I need to read now?!

Recognition Guides. There is a new one coming up today i think.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 09 April 2021, 12:27:29
Recognition Guides. There is a new one coming up today i think.

Oh, thank you.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 10 April 2021, 05:38:19
Not even so, the 8 of Tamarind were Regular until two days before I calculate, the Seventh of Tamarind they destroyed a battalion twice, only to see them return rebuilt and with the same veteran afterwards ...
On the other hand, the Marian units strangely do not have that speed of reposition and their mercs neither, instead Tamarindo takes out of his sleeve unnamed mercs units to garrison 6 worlds that the Hegemony occupies and another two with regulars.

Tamarind's provincial military seem to have unexpected capabilities even though the Duke is waging an unsanctioned war. Veteran units normally don't get rebuilt identically like that. Perhaps the Caesar doesn't know about the newest developments due to disruption of the HPG network.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 10 April 2021, 07:06:29
Take the propaganda and directional bias out and the FWL forces are surging past the point of effective efficiency and the Marians don't have everyone on the table.  It's quite the mess regardless of how you slice it.

Granted... I don't have answers as to why Marian and Tamarind forces that were destroyed or replaced within five years operate as they do.  Maybe the writers could help out by not mulling important info between propaganda blurbs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 10 April 2021, 10:33:20
It's alright. Tamarind can't sustain the offensive any longer. They have very little industry and are a long way from home. It is time for the experienced veteran Legions to rally and give them a bloody nose. With the Falcon threat gone and the Wolves distracted, the Lyrans can even regroup and attempt to retake their Hammerfall conquests, opening up another front to stretch the neoFWL.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 10 April 2021, 13:21:38
Lyrans are losing too much ground on their end and Cappelans have their eyes set elsewhere.  Can't see their involvement.  Like any able situation, Marians should rely on themselves and not a super power that will probably cut them off the moment they stop being useful. 

To that end I was thinking of getting some battle armors since I still can't decide on mechs to get but I don't know if I should get Ravagers or Marauders.  Do you guys have a preference?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 11 April 2021, 20:45:30
Lyrans are losing too much ground on their end and Cappelans have their eyes set elsewhere.  Can't see their involvement.  Like any able situation, Marians should rely on themselves and not a super power that will probably cut them off the moment they stop being useful. 

To that end I was thinking of getting some battle armors since I still can't decide on mechs to get but I don't know if I should get Ravagers or Marauders.  Do you guys have a preference?

The Hegemony has always been alone, except when WoB supported Sean, as for the BA both are my preference, the Purifier that we have according to the MUL is a great addiction to the MHAF
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 11 April 2021, 20:59:54
The Hegemony has always been alone, except when WoB supported Sean, as for the BA both are my preference, the Purifier that we have according to the MUL is a great addiction to the MHAF

I didn't even know we had purifiers until now... that's cool.  As well as LRM Ravagers. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 12 April 2021, 03:11:41
The Hegemony has always been alone, except when WoB supported Sean, as for the BA both are my preference, the Purifier that we have according to the MUL is a great addiction to the MHAF

Because of this current bind, the Hegemony will be forced to seek outside intervention. Unless we actually grow some common sense and concentrate the Legios to decisively crush that Tamarind expedition.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 12 April 2021, 08:32:11
I didn't even know we had purifiers until now... that's cool.  As well as LRM Ravagers.

Yeap, apparently the MH, RoTS, TC, and guess who? The Escorpion Imperio!

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4881/purifier-adaptive-battle-armor-base (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4881/purifier-adaptive-battle-armor-base)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 12 April 2021, 08:43:14
Yeap, apparently the MH, RoTS, TC, and guess who? The Escorpion Imperio!

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4881/purifier-adaptive-battle-armor-base (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4881/purifier-adaptive-battle-armor-base)

Sounds like good time factions to me.  I approve.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 12 April 2021, 09:00:55
The Imperio got it from Hansa salvage and the Hansa Purifier factory.

MH and TC are probably using Blakist salvage without a real way of replacing them.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 April 2021, 09:17:29
The Imperio got it from Hansa salvage and the Hansa Purifier factory.

MH and TC are probably using Blakist salvage without a real way of replacing them.

o Finally it was possible to retrotech the captured material and finish the unfinished lines of the Horatius Factory where the Marauders and Ravagers are made.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 April 2021, 09:21:47
The Imperio got it from Hansa salvage and the Hansa Purifier factory.

MH and TC are probably using Blakist salvage without a real way of replacing them.

Scorpions also got it from the Blakist cache they took.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 April 2021, 12:42:18
These Blakist leaving Caches everywhere ...., because let's say the only way that a battlearmor remains Salvage is that no one has been using it at the time of capture
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 April 2021, 13:46:22
Blakists set up caches around the Clans, the Scorpions found a big one as they were escaping the Homeworlds.

Battle armor can be salvaged, I think it is 10% chance per suit to salvage a abstract chunk . . . 3 or 4 chunks make a new suit?  I can never find the rule for that off the top of my head, I have it cited at home.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 12 April 2021, 13:58:57
Blakists set up caches around the Clans, the Scorpions found a big one as they were escaping the Homeworlds.

Battle armor can be salvaged, I think it is 10% chance per suit to salvage a abstract chunk . . . 3 or 4 chunks make a new suit?  I can never find the rule for that off the top of my head, I have it cited at home.

10+ on a 2D6 to salvage a Battle Suit. About 25% to salvage a BA.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 April 2021, 15:11:56
Was the the whole BA or part of a BA that was salvaged?

And the Republic had to get Purifiers post-Jihad.  They were pretty frequent in the MWDA sets.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 12 April 2021, 15:18:56
Was the the whole BA or part of a BA that was salvaged?

And the Republic had to get Purifiers post-Jihad.  They were pretty frequent in the MWDA sets.

If you pass the dice-roll, all the BA. Strategic Operations, page 176. I could post a screen capture, but i dont remember if that was against the board rules.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 April 2021, 15:39:03
Hmm, might have been thinking of my need to form 'squads' . . . face some Chaos March formation that was fielding a squad of IS Std, squad of Cavaliers, and a squad of Longinus makes it hard to put together a whole new squad out of salvage.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 12 April 2021, 16:47:47
I, for one, believe these so called " Caches " to be merely Cassion Payload Satellites (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cassion) purposely placed in constellations near the solar orbit to be used when needed.

Things as small as 200 tons don't normally register on a scope. AND if I'm correct, several Megiddo System Space Platforms (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dragon%27s_Breath_Multiple_Capital_Missile_Launch_System) would be placed in and among them as a defense force. Along side of course, would probable a WoB Skyward (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Skyward).

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 April 2021, 17:46:27
Who knows how many of these floating depots must be out there floating in uninhabited systems, peripherals or depots of the SL or RWR that still continue to appear here and there and let's not even talk about the Amaris Outposts ...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 12 April 2021, 18:49:05
Well " officially " the records were destroyed by WoB ROM when Terra got captured to deliberate stall the answer.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 April 2021, 22:28:39
I, for one, believe these so called " Caches " to be merely Cassion Payload Satellites (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cassion) purposely placed in constellations near the solar orbit to be used when needed.

Things as small as 200 tons don't normally register on a scope. AND if I'm correct, several Megiddo System Space Platforms (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dragon%27s_Breath_Multiple_Capital_Missile_Launch_System) would be placed in and among them as a defense force. Along side of course, would probable a WoB Skyward (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Skyward).

TT

And none of that seemed to apply to Cache 724 or whatever it was the Scorpions stumbled across.  It was a sizeable amount of gear to let them re-arm some forces while the Jaguar also swiped some of it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 April 2021, 14:31:59
That we would not give that the Hegemony will not find some equipment depot whether they are SL, RWR or Blakist? No?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 13 April 2021, 15:12:04
Of those, my favorite would be RWR. We'd get stuff that few others have, like the Ignis!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 April 2021, 15:14:25
That we would not give that the Hegemony will not find some equipment depot whether they are SL, RWR or Blakist? No?

Not really, those caches are unlikely ( . . . right up until the plot needs one) which is part of the Hegemony's unfortunate stellar cartography.

RWR-  No polities in that location we know of that the Aramis would have been supporting against the SDLF.

Star League-  Not the TC, OA or MoC . . . it was never a area occupied by the SLDF or abandoned when Kerensky took everyone for a romp through the Republic

Blakists-  They were pre-positioning equipment, from at most when they took Terra in '58 to as 'recently' as 3064 when they were provisional Star League members, as replacement gear for wiping out the Clans.  Especially considering it was Blakist entries in TRO '58 & '60- I want to swear there was a Lightray reference which got Scorpions thinking of a Lightray C or IIC.

So yeah, no reason for there to be caches set up in Hegemony space, just like no old SL run production facilities.

Weirdo- a Rampage with Rockets!  A Rocket Rampage!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 April 2021, 15:23:46
Of those, my favorite would be RWR. We'd get stuff that few others have, like the Ignis!

or the Hipparch I know it's dreaming but how about a depot where they were transferring one or two lines of something to some unknown location for the Revolt, there are so many outposts out there that it would not be surprising abandoned bases from where the troops started or were supplied or the rebels supported by Amaris to attack the SDLF throughout the peripheral area
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 April 2021, 15:27:32
Not really, those caches are unlikely ( . . . right up until the plot needs one) which is part of the Hegemony's unfortunate stellar cartography.

RWR-  No polities in that location we know of that the Aramis would have been supporting against the SDLF.

Star League-  Not the TC, OA or MoC . . . it was never a area occupied by the SLDF or abandoned when Kerensky took everyone for a romp through the Republic

Blakists-  They were pre-positioning equipment, from at most when they took Terra in '58 to as 'recently' as 3064 when they were provisional Star League members, as replacement gear for wiping out the Clans.  Especially considering it was Blakist entries in TRO '58 & '60- I want to swear there was a Lightray reference which got Scorpions thinking of a Lightray C or IIC.

So yeah, no reason for there to be caches set up in Hegemony space, just like no old SL run production facilities.

Weirdo- a Rampage with Rockets!  A Rocket Rampage!

Hmm, don't follow too much but the ATC had built a series of small factories all over the periphery to supply the "demands" for the equipment of the Good Steffan, it is more the factory of mechs that the ATC had in Alphard manufactured about 30 mechs (to know which) for the troops or the rebels of Amaris, so if there was one in Alphard to know how many more could there be in the area
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 April 2021, 15:29:06
a Rampage with Rockets!  A Rocket Rampage!

In the name of the most sacred no! Rampage yes, with RL they already have LRM!

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 13 April 2021, 16:29:50
I'd prefer a rocket Hipparch.

Hmm...A modernized Jackrabbit would be a nice first try at the first Marian-designed true BattleMech...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 April 2021, 16:32:13
I'd prefer a rocket Hipparch.

Hmm...A modernized Jackrabbit would be a nice first try at the first Marian-designed true BattleMech...

I agree that a Hipparch with RL would be interesting, and as for the first design, a modernized Jackrrabit or a Phoenix made a new version, I mean, a Phoenix II would be very interesting.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 13 April 2021, 16:56:56
Okay, yeah. The Phoenix would be good, mostly because the shared weight class with the Centurion means it could probably share at least some of the non-Primitive/Industrial components of their existing production.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 April 2021, 17:35:50
Okay, yeah. The Phoenix would be good, mostly because the shared weight class with the Centurion means it could probably share at least some of the non-Primitive/Industrial components of their existing production.

In a chronicle that he directed, exactly that happened, to find a minor Depot in which there was a high number of Phoenix, the hegemonic techs made a "modernized" version of the Phoenix and called it exactly that Phoenix II.
A cute bestiality that moves 7/11/1 Full Energy Armament (Lasers), The form is in Fan Art in the corresponding post, look for an image in which there are several mechs together, they are different versions of the same mech between 3067 to 3080
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 13 April 2021, 18:12:34
Wait, who directed what? I'm lost. ???
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 April 2021, 18:15:10
Here

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-art/tro-the-age-of-aquila-sanguis/

In something else, it looks like we got the new Stinger
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 14 April 2021, 00:38:06
I remember talking to SouthernMountain about that on Discord.  I seriously want them printed up still.

One year at a time.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 14 April 2021, 04:02:02
o Finally it was possible to retrotech the captured material and finish the unfinished lines of the Horatius Factory where the Marauders and Ravagers are made.

This is highly possible. We do require a medium BA in addition to our homegrown heavy and assault BAs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 14 April 2021, 09:59:40
Not really, those caches are unlikely ( . . . right up until the plot needs one) which is part of the Hegemony's unfortunate stellar cartography.

RWR-  No polities in that location we know of that the Aramis would have been supporting against the SDLF.

Star League-  Not the TC, OA or MoC . . . it was never a area occupied by the SLDF or abandoned when Kerensky took everyone for a romp through the Republic

Blakists-  They were pre-positioning equipment, from at most when they took Terra in '58 to as 'recently' as 3064 when they were provisional Star League members, as replacement gear for wiping out the Clans.  Especially considering it was Blakist entries in TRO '58 & '60- I want to swear there was a Lightray reference which got Scorpions thinking of a Lightray C or IIC.

So yeah, no reason for there to be caches set up in Hegemony space, just like no old SL run production facilities.

Weirdo- a Rampage with Rockets!  A Rocket Rampage!


Amaris had secret training bases all over.  No reason he couldn't have had one on an uninhabited world between the RWR and MoC which just happens to be the modern world of, say, Herculaneum, and was abandoned in such haste that there’s still a few concealed hangars full of mechs and vehicles left behind waiting for someone to uncover one day.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 14 April 2021, 10:11:35

Amaris had secret training bases all over.  No reason he couldn't have had one on an uninhabited world between the RWR and MoC which just happens to be the modern world of, say, Herculaneum, and was abandoned in such haste that there’s still a few concealed hangars full of mechs and vehicles left behind waiting for someone to uncover one day.


Totally, that Medium or Small Depots appear here and there as a result of these training bases is more than possible, something larger could be a slightly larger base than a Command and Control Center for operations in the area.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 14 April 2021, 12:13:46
depots are seeded everywhere for a reason. devices that allow canon-conscious players to inject otherwise unavailable units into games is not a small thing. it's doubtful too many finds on par with Waypoint 531 are out there but you never know
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 14 April 2021, 12:18:11
depots are seeded everywhere for a reason. devices that allow canon-conscious players to inject otherwise unavailable units into games is not a small thing. it's doubtful too many finds on par with Waypoint 531 are out there but you never know

I am satisfied with a Deposit that has a mech / aero inside in conditions of use for our current time would be a great addiction more without continuing to know how much local production we have and how much of the "modern" we fall for markets or salvage, of course if in the depot there is a database I'm not going to get mad or leave it lying hahahaha
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 14 April 2021, 12:21:28
Castle Wulfenstein perhaps?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 14 April 2021, 12:24:43
Castle Wulfenstein perhaps?

TT

If I find something like this empty within the Hegemonic borders or close to them, it would be well worth annexing the system to study it and safeguard the history of the fact hahahaha
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 14 April 2021, 12:42:15
Castle Wulfenstein perhaps?

TT

Something akin Castle Wulfenstein would be excellent for a small Marian RPG campaign. Get to the place, survive, kill the crazy commander, and claim the place for the Hegemony!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 14 April 2021, 14:26:11
This is highly possible. We do require a medium BA in addition to our homegrown heavy and assault BAs.

It would even be logical that after 65 years of R&D for Armor (Ravager and Marauder), the hegemony would have gained both the experience and the knowledge to finish the lines of Purifier (or any other armor) that it needed to finish in that factory.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 14 April 2021, 14:34:39
Something akin Castle Wulfenstein would be excellent for a small Marian RPG campaign. Get to the place, survive, kill the crazy commander, and claim the place for the Hegemony!

This sounds like Aires de Benevolentia to me .....


Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 14 April 2021, 16:21:54
It would even be logical that after 65 years of R&D for Armor (Ravager and Marauder), the hegemony would have gained both the experience and the knowledge to finish the lines of Purifier (or any other armor) that it needed to finish in that factory.

Let me send you a Lathe . . . you have 65 years to build me '72 Charger.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 15 April 2021, 03:33:00
It would even be logical that after 65 years of R&D for Armor (Ravager and Marauder), the hegemony would have gained both the experience and the knowledge to finish the lines of Purifier (or any other armor) that it needed to finish in that factory.

Yes. To this we can add the Longinus(this is a first-generation suit that the Blakists had access to) and Quirinus(it was sold to mercenaries and former FWL states so could be salvaged and reverse-engineered by the Hegemony).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 15 April 2021, 09:40:22
Yes. To this we can add the Longinus(this is a first-generation suit that the Blakists had access to) and Quirinus(it was sold to mercenaries and former FWL states so could be salvaged and reverse-engineered by the Hegemony).

I think the role that the Hegemony doesn't have covered that is worth covering and might be worth making your own suits to do it is semi-independent medium battle armor. The Ravager is low-end and worth keeping around mainly for the export-market, but the Marauder is a world-beater for what it is (ground-walking, magclamp, strong direct-fire battlearmor with TAG). It nearly does an assault-weight's job and it's cheaper than a contemporary-generation infantry suit at that. You can make and field a lot of them, if not for the independent mobility issue they'd be a wonderful default suit and it's probably worthwhile to have them be that anyway. If you can get another factory running, make more Marauders (and sell a bunch of them, then buy what you need to fill gaps.).

The only Longinus worth making for the Hegemony I think would be the Magnetic (and the Marauder makes it redundant in the mechanized role that is its main claim to fame); the other variants have the "can't jump with your missiles" problem. The Quirinus is what to get and develop if doing this- resiliency to artillery stands to be very important. Everything else doesn't seem to be significantly better than buying one of the IS-Standard derivatives from the neighbors (specifically the Capellans).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 15 April 2021, 10:09:01
Let me send you a Lathe . . . you have 65 years to build me '72 Charger.

Going a little off topic here Colt. You are comparing apples with oranges, but ok, you send Adacas a lathe and you want your Dodge ´72 Charger.
 
Lets say Adacas take his time to learn machining, and how to get all the necessary parts to machine and assemble your Dodge Charger. He spends basically almost all his free time to learn how to assemble the car from the smallest piece, and tries to get the parts wherever he can, or machine them if not. I assume 15 years? 20 maybe? 25 if he spend sometime making a family perhaps.

Now, instead of Adacas you have a multi-planetary government. A government that already have companies that make similar products. In fact, they began with already a partially factory for BA, and got lucky and hired an ex-Irian scientist to lead the teams that finally get their first product in 3084, 66 years before 3150, the present in-game time. Also to that, add that nation already have samples of that "'72 Chager" since the Civil War era, so about 24 years prior to their own locally produced BA. And after that, that nation, togheter with only other 2 (and one is confirmed to possess the only known factory of that "Charger"), are almost the only nation to continually have that unit in their MUL roosters since the Civil War.

Those that means they have a factory for that product? I don't know, maybe they have tons and tons of salvage that they keep in working condition for almost 100 years. But the situation is similar to when i noticed the Taurian Royal Thunderbolt and Marauder (later confirmed by a writer, and much later by the RecGuides).

And to this add a new faction that get access to the Purifier, the Scorpion Empire, that gets it in the Dark Age era, probably after conquering the Hanseatic League, that had a confirmed Purifier line in Falsterbo (HDF Manufacturing, Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade, page 4).

So, to resume with enough time, dedication and money you can complete your personal projects, and probably the MH (and the TC) have either a truckload of Purifiers lying around, or they got a source for those BAs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 15 April 2021, 10:16:48
I think the role that the Hegemony doesn't have covered that is worth covering and might be worth making your own suits to do it is semi-independent medium battle armor. The Ravager is low-end and worth keeping around mainly for the export-market, but the Marauder is a world-beater for what it is (ground-walking, magclamp, strong direct-fire battlearmor with TAG). It nearly does an assault-weight's job and it's cheaper than a contemporary-generation infantry suit at that. You can make and field a lot of them, if not for the independent mobility issue they'd be a wonderful default suit and it's probably worthwhile to have them be that anyway. If you can get another factory running, make more Marauders (and sell a bunch of them, then buy what you need to fill gaps.).

The only Longinus worth making for the Hegemony I think would be the Magnetic (and the Marauder makes it redundant in the mechanized role that is its main claim to fame); the other variants have the "can't jump with your missiles" problem. The Quirinus is what to get and develop if doing this- resiliency to artillery stands to be very important. Everything else doesn't seem to be significantly better than buying one of the IS-Standard derivatives from the neighbors (specifically the Capellans).


Humm if Quirinus is interesting, it would also be to develop a light tactical armor for commandos or maybe one for 0G operations, there is a lot to choose from.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 15 April 2021, 10:32:21
Going a little off topic here Colt. You are comparing apples with oranges, but ok, you send Adacas a lathe and you want your Dodge ´72 Charger.
 
Lets say Adacas take his time to learn machining, and how to get all the necessary parts to machine and assemble your Dodge Charger. He spends basically almost all his free time to learn how to assemble the car from the smallest piece, and tries to get the parts wherever he can, or machine them if not. I assume 15 years? 20 maybe? 25 if he spend sometime making a family perhaps.

Now, instead of Adacas you have a multi-planetary government. A government that already have companies that make similar products. In fact, they began with already a partially factory for BA, and got lucky and hired an ex-Irian scientist to lead the teams that finally get their first product in 3084, 66 years before 3150, the present in-game time. Also to that, add that nation already have samples of that "'72 Chager" since the Civil War era, so about 24 years prior to their own locally produced BA. And after that, that nation, togheter with only other 2 (and one is confirmed to possess the only known factory of that "Charger"), are almost the only nation to continually have that unit in their MUL roosters since the Civil War.

Those that means they have a factory for that product? I don't know, maybe they have tons and tons of salvage that they keep in working condition for almost 100 years. But the situation is similar to when i noticed the Taurian Royal Thunderbolt and Marauder (later confirmed by a writer, and much later by the RecGuides).

And to this add a new faction that get access to the Purifier, the Scorpion Empire, that gets it in the Dark Age era, probably after conquering the Hanseatic League, that had a confirmed Purifier line in Falsterbo (HDF Manufacturing, Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade, page 4).

So, to resume with enough time, dedication and money you can complete your personal projects, and probably the MH (and the TC) have either a truckload of Purifiers lying around, or they got a source for those BAs.

The point was that he was basing that on just having a incomplete production line.  If you do not have the means to build mimetic armor- and they do not, otherwise we would have it as at least a option on their other BA- then they are not going to build Purifiers.  With the Hegemony's apparent limited ability to build mech's standard armor and afaik no native production of FF armors, they are unlikely to be able to make specialist BA armor.  How long did it take the Capellans who created Stealth Armor to replicate Mimetic (with hefty theft) for their own BA?  The CC's Trinity armor used Stealth IIRC, and it was not until we got their new BA w/ TRO 3145 series that they ended up with Mimetic IIRC.  Occam's says the incomplete Purifier production line is where they started building their own BA in the first place, or at least where they got the equipment to build it.

The Hanseatic League & Castile region had Word of Blake games being played and the bit that the Hegemony was slated to build Purifiers makes the League having that ability (aka local replacements for anti-Clan campaign) make sense . . . especially with to me the hints of refugee Blakists getting 'lost' in the League.  Having some of the physical infrastructure (lathe) does not mean you can build the final product . . . they need to learn how to build the tools that make the tools (repeated) to get to the final product.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 15 April 2021, 11:00:04
The point was that he was basing that on just having a incomplete production line.  If you do not have the means to build mimetic armor- and they do not, otherwise we would have it as at least a option on their other BA- then they are not going to build Purifiers.

And you put the time frame, 65 years. Mimetic is from 3061, so almost 90 years to the present ingame time. Enough time to research, hire people, use the samples you have, etc.

With the Hegemony's apparent limited ability to build mech's standard armor and afaik no native production of FF armors, they are unlikely to be able to make specialist BA armor. 

Dude, what? The MH is building standard mech/vee armor since 3042 (Marian Arms Standard, Gladius Hovertank). And then you have the Lorica Progressia Ferro-Fibrous from the Testudo and Centurion -9H3 Militiamech.

How long did it take the Capellans who created Stealth Armor to replicate Mimetic (with hefty theft) for their own BA?  The CC's Trinity armor used Stealth IIRC, and it was not until we got their new BA w/ TRO 3145 series that they ended up with Mimetic IIRC. 

4 years took the Capellans to get Mimetic, and they used it in thier version of the Trinity Armor, the Jin Long. The BA is from 3065 (TRO:3075, page 26).

Occam's says the incomplete Purifier production line is where they started building their own BA in the first place, or at least where they got the equipment to build it.

No one is denying that, in fact is explicit in the Ravager TRO entry, that the imcomplete line, plus the good Doctor expertise quickstarted the Ravager program.

The Hanseatic League & Castile region had Word of Blake games being played and the bit that the Hegemony was slated to build Purifiers makes the League having that ability (aka local replacements for anti-Clan campaign) make sense . . . especially with to me the hints of refugee Blakists getting 'lost' in the League.  Having some of the physical infrastructure (lathe) does not mean you can build the final product . . . they need to learn how to build the tools that make the tools (repeated) to get to the final product.

Again Colt, no one is denying that just having the tools to create something makes you capable of doing it. But by the Dark Age, we are talking of OLD technology. By the DA, as far as i know, the CC, FS, DC and RoTS have cannon BA using that kind of armor, and the MUL puts only the RoTS, MH and TC as sole users of the Purifier (outside of WoB of course) until the Dark Age when they add the Escorpion Imperio and their factory.

Again, Occam´s Razor, the simplest explanation is usually the right one. The in-game question is "Why the Marian Hegemony and Taurian Concordat have acess to a BA they cannonically dont have a factory (yet) for so much time?" The simpliest explanasion should be "Because they are able to replace it with consistency".
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 15 April 2021, 15:07:51
On a different note... What the Vixen?!? When the hell did we get access to Clantech?

And do you think one would be out of place in IV Legio... >:D
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 15 April 2021, 15:19:35
On a different note... What the Vixen?!? When the hell did we get access to Clantech?

How else? Clan Sea Fox! Its easy to produce to them, and require less space, so they make the mech in their CSF Titanic production site, and sell it to everyone.

And do you think one would be out of place in IV Legio... >:D

Why not? While the IV is one of the Legios with the least combat history in the last decade, you can always have a young Centurion or Principes from a wealthy patrician family adquiring one of those mechs from the Clan merchants.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 15 April 2021, 15:52:39
On a different note... What the Vixen?!? When the hell did we get access to Clantech?

And do you think one would be out of place in IV Legio... >:D

the benefits of Periphery General are legion...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 15 April 2021, 16:13:37
Sweet. I'll swap out the Storm Raider I'd originally had planned to finish out my planned IV Cohort. Certainly going to be easier to find a mini for it, once Wave 2 stuff hits stores.

I think instead of the scion of a patrician family, I'm instead going to make the pilot a duelist who fled Solaris to escape prosecution and imprisonment. While the details of his crimes are not generally known, apparently they are severe enough that no safety would have been found in Commonwealth or League space, but Marian authorities proved less 'squeamish' about the situation when he offered his services along with his advanced mech. That doesn't mean commanders trust him, which is why he's not in one of the more prestigious Legions. His mech is a good fit for IV Legio's operating style, and if he does go rogue, then that legion of COIN specialists and pirate hunters will be well placed to hunt him down. His fellow soldiers may be the stick enforcing good behavior, but there is a carrot as well - while currently of the plebian class, he has been promised a patrician rank if he and his mech provide ten years of sterling service.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 15 April 2021, 16:21:19
Sweet. I'll swap out the Storm Raider I'd originally had planned to finish out my planned IV Cohort. Certainly going to be easier to find a mini for it, once Wave 2 stuff hits stores.

I think instead of the scion of a patrician family, I'm instead going to make the pilot a duelist who fled Solaris to escape prosecution and imprisonment. While the details of his crimes are not generally known, apparently they are severe enough that no safety would have been found in Commonwealth or League space, but Marian authorities proved less 'squeamish' about the situation when he offered his services along with his advanced mech. That doesn't mean commanders trust him, which is why he's not in one of the more prestigious Legions. His mech is a good fit for IV Legio's operating style, and if he does go rogue, then that legion of COIN specialists and pirate hunters will be well placed to hunt him down. His fellow soldiers may be the stick enforcing good behavior, but there is a carrot as well - while currently of the plebian class, he has been promised a patrician rank if he and his mech provide ten years of sterling service.


Sounds pretty good.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 15 April 2021, 16:29:17
Unfortunately I have not had as much success eyeing what to get next.  My free time in trying to learn BAs and mechs in MUL ended up swapping back to Warframe now that the console update is finally live.

I did start coming up for the backstory of my cliche-patrician who has a background in sword fighting and duels and has a fixation in pirate hunting.  Only because of the limited background I have with HEMA and historians/practioners.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 15 April 2021, 17:17:41
At the moment the Clanner armament that we touch are of Light weight both in mech and in aero

Vixen (4 Variants)
Issedone Omni ASF

And some more mechs of modern origin such as the Hermit Crab that I do not know if they have Clanner weapons, that for now, I think it touched us quite little yet but I do not lose hope that something else will appear
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 16 April 2021, 08:07:25

Humm if Quirinus is interesting, it would also be to develop a light tactical armor for commandos or maybe one for 0G operations, there is a lot to choose from.

Quirinus is a nice rough-and-tough line suit for BA legionaries. For commandos, perhaps Nighthawks(another Blakist design and probably looted from one of the raids on Niops)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 16 April 2021, 08:40:14
Honestly, if the Marians do start deploying battlesuited commandos in notable numbers, I hope they stick with the Kage that the Ordo Vigilis has experience with. It's got the speed for extraction missions and the stealthing for hidden spotting, and really those are the only two roles where elite commandos should ever see a TW-scale tabletop game. And as an older 2nd-generation suit, the technology should be easier to maintain and repair in the field than newer suits, a vital consideration for specops teams on independent missions.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 16 April 2021, 10:07:23
Honestly, if the Marians do start deploying battlesuited commandos in notable numbers, I hope they stick with the Kage that the Ordo Vigilis has experience with. It's got the speed for extraction missions and the stealthing for hidden spotting, and really those are the only two roles where elite commandos should ever see a TW-scale tabletop game. And as an older 2nd-generation suit, the technology should be easier to maintain and repair in the field than newer suits, a vital consideration for specops teams on independent missions.

I agree that the Kage are easier to maintain and that the Ordo Vigilis has proven experience in its use, it would be interesting to negotiate its manufacture in the Hegemony and perhaps make a small upgrade.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 16 April 2021, 10:25:55
Honestly, if the Marians do start deploying battlesuited commandos in notable numbers, I hope they stick with the Kage that the Ordo Vigilis has experience with. It's got the speed for extraction missions and the stealthing for hidden spotting, and really those are the only two roles where elite commandos should ever see a TW-scale tabletop game. And as an older 2nd-generation suit, the technology should be easier to maintain and repair in the field than newer suits, a vital consideration for specops teams on independent missions.

I don't think the Legios are big enough to justify the expense of manufacturing the supply chains for "modern" commando battlesuits; it would be better stick to what they are doing (making good, desirable, but affordable gear) and get the niche-application high-end stuff from the Capellans in the quantities necessary for domestic use.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 16 April 2021, 10:34:58
I don't think the Legios are big enough to justify the expense of manufacturing the supply chains for "modern" commando battlesuits; it would be better stick to what they are doing (making good, desirable, but affordable gear) and get the niche-application high-end stuff from the Capellans in the quantities necessary for domestic use.

The Purifier is rather nice against our enemies. Mimetic armour ambushes especially when we are now on the defensive.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 16 April 2021, 10:53:09
Why do you specify the Capellans? I don't recall seeing anything about a special trading relationship there.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 16 April 2021, 11:18:05
The Purifier is rather nice against our enemies. Mimetic armour ambushes especially when we are now on the defensive.

It seems like instead of focusing on being able to commit the Purifiers to attrition operations, keeping up a strong average force and a reliable source of foreign exchange would pay off better.

If they can get foreign investment for it sure, though. But don't derail things pursuing that. It's a specialized niche. Being able to access the Capellans for this sort of thing (and it's the sort of thing they've focused on) is not an ability to be ignored.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 16 April 2021, 11:28:56
They may not be sourcing any new Purifiers from IS builders, but rather buying the salvaged remains like they do with mechs and armor.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 16 April 2021, 11:35:01
I don't think the Legios are big enough to justify the expense of manufacturing the supply chains for "modern" commando battlesuits; it would be better stick to what they are doing (making good, desirable, but affordable gear) and get the niche-application high-end stuff from the Capellans in the quantities necessary for domestic use.

I think you fall for Fontaine's hoax info, the Hegemony has no arms trade ties with the Capela Confederation, if you look at the Hegemonic teams they are of Lyran origin (Purchased) and Marik (Purchased and fruit of Salvage and a number minor Canopus Salvage plus an unspecified number of locally made equipment
From Liao little and nothing, instead there is a commercial link with the DC buying the Kage for the Imps of the Ordo Vigilis
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 16 April 2021, 11:37:31
They may not be sourcing any new Purifiers from IS builders, but rather buying the salvaged remains like they do with mechs and armor.

I'm still waiting for you to answer what Baldur Mekorig said, there are no known Purifier builders in the IS, the Hegemony could very well be making Purifiers locally
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 April 2021, 11:59:08
They may not be sourcing any new Purifiers from IS builders, but rather buying the salvaged remains like they do with mechs and armor.

For the last 60 years? Damm, those Purifiers sounds like the T-34, still in use in some God-forgotten places of the planet. Also, they would have to compete with the Taurians in that particular place of the salvage market apparently, if we follow your line of reasoning. Its a good thing the Canopians left that market soon after the Jihad, looks like the used up theirs and changed for the Crapellan analog.

I'm still waiting for you to answer what Baldur Mekorig said, there are no known Purifier builders in the IS, the Hegemony could very well be making Purifiers locally

Correction, we know that there is still a factory producing them in the IS, back in Terra in Krupp´s.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 16 April 2021, 12:03:58
I'm still waiting for you to answer what Baldur Mekorig said, there are no known Purifier builders in the IS, the Hegemony could very well be making Purifiers locally

You don't have to make things to have them (or even have things being in production to have them). A lot of suits to begin with, enough specialized physical plant to maintain them, and being mindful of sourcing needed maintenance stocks, and not wasting them is a decent argument for keeping a force of mimetic-armor Purifiers in the field.

(I come at finding this this argument plausible from spending some time thinking about Tamarind-Abbey. They don't make *anything* (well, they do, but not enough of anything to matter). They make K-F drives and Jump Sails and have a civilian economy- for military equipment they trade/salvage/trade-salvage and they're still in part running on the fumes of the Jeremy Brett days when they were a rallying point for the Anti-Blakist/Anti-Lyran FWLM. Finding out what they have is something of a chore- one of the Tamarind Regular regiments was re-equipped with Juliano Assault Mechs in time for the last stages of Hammerfall, but good luck getting a RAT to describe that, or the MUL to tell you that specifically- it's TRO text.)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 16 April 2021, 12:09:47
You don't have to make things to have them (or even have things being in production to have them). A lot of suits to begin with, enough specialized physical plant to maintain them, and being mindful of sourcing needed maintenance stocks, and not wasting them is a decent argument for keeping a force of mimetic-armor Purifiers in the field.

(I come at finding this this argument plausible from spending some time thinking about Tamarind-Abbey. They don't make *anything* (well, they do, but not enough of anything to matter). They make K-F drives and Jump Sails and have a civilian economy- for military equipment they trade/salvage/trade-salvage and they're still in part running on the fumes of the Jeremy Brett days when they were a rallying point for the Anti-Blakist/Anti-Lyran FWLM. Finding out what they have is something of a chore- one of the Tamarind Regular regiments was re-equipped with Juliano Assault Mechs in time for the last stages of Hammerfall, but good luck getting a RAT to describe that, or the MUL to tell you that specifically- it's TRO text.)


I understand you, it is something that with the Hegemony happens to us in quadruple, as for the armor I refer to the MUL and the scarce Hegemonic Fluff, we have Kage in the Ordo and Ravager / Marauder / Purifier (Maybe) of local production in the MHAF, all the rest of batlearmor that we have are of Marik origin and just now Fronc's TinStar (that is how it fell to us by the Hegemony, perhaps it came in the same package as the Marshal Fronc version)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 16 April 2021, 12:15:33
Correction, we know that there is still a factory producing them in the IS, back in Terra in Krupp´s.

Touche, but based on the fluff of continuous distrust of helping anything by the Republic towards the Marian Hegemony, it would be extremely rare for them to sell us a nut, not just a ****** lot of Battlearmour
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 April 2021, 12:21:26
You don't have to make things to have them (or even have things being in production to have them). A lot of suits to begin with, enough specialized physical plant to maintain them, and being mindful of sourcing needed maintenance stocks, and not wasting them is a decent argument for keeping a force of mimetic-armor Purifiers in the field.

Sure, you can have stuff in your faction MUL that is not "technically" made by the faction by merit of beign salvage and/or foreign purchases. heck, thats the way that the MH have acess to the (a little) clan tech on the form of the Vixen. Usually that kind of stuff is reflected either by the lore, or by certain special unit rules (a lot of military units can roll X times in another RATs to represent salvage after a long time of battle/raids against that faction).

But that kind of inclusion vary over time in the MUL. And the prescence of the Purifier is constant since pre-Jihad times  for the same 2 factions (MH and TC), with Circinus and WOB desappearing after the Jihad, and the RoTS replacing grographically the WoB in Terra and around. Its only during the Dark Ages, that the Escorpion Imperio is included in the same list thanks to the second canon factory of the BA that we are aware of.

I followed a similar reasoning some years ago with the Royal Marauder and Thunderbolt, and was later confirmed by a writer. To add a little more weight, both the MH (with that BA imcomplete line) and the TC had WoB facilities build inside their borders, and even the TC (and MoC) are still using up to the Dark Age a WoB model  (Phoenix Hawk -4W, built in factories both i the TC and MoC).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 16 April 2021, 13:13:07

But that kind of inclusion vary over time in the MUL. And the prescence of the Purifier is constant since pre-Jihad times  for the same 2 factions (MH and TC), with Circinus and WOB desappearing after the Jihad, and the RoTS replacing grographically the WoB in Terra and around. Its only during the Dark Ages, that the Escorpion Imperio is included in the same list thanks to the second canon factory of the BA that we are aware of.


Regarding that, I  saw that as a situation as with FWL Successor-Factions and the Achileus stealth battle armor; I think the issue is similar.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 April 2021, 13:58:51
Regarding that, I  saw that as a situation as with FWL Successor-Factions and the Achileus stealth battle armor; I think the issue is similar.

Achileus BA is easier. It was made in irian since the 3057 as a mass produced BA for the FWLM, so you had 10 full years of full production before the Jihad, and even in 3067 you have a second supplier, making both the standard version and the WoB one in Gibson (of course, this last source did not survive the Regulans).

And even that, as far as i know, and even with the Blakist sending a couple of nukes to Irian facilities while they retreated from Irian itself, the Achileus was keep in production. Jihad Final Reckoning talks about Irian going full for exporting stuff to compensate for corporate losses, and with branchs in the former FWL, i can see the cheap Achileus beign sold in the common market by Irian.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 16 April 2021, 14:17:39
Why do you specify the Capellans? I don't recall seeing anything about a special trading relationship there.

There aren't any.  The only known agreement is nothing but flavor text for supplies to keep proxy raiding Tamarind.  Even without super specialized variants of mechs, we should atleast still be expanding and modernizing the handful of battlemech lines (Commando is one) we do produce locally to expand besides inching slowly from primitive to militia mechs or rocket refits for common mechs that can be questionable to obtain despite a list saying so.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 16 April 2021, 14:21:10
As I already said, Fontaine's comments on Liaoite spare parts and mechs highlight the ignorance of hegemonic actions against Canopus or absilute bad faith or being directly in league with Canopus the good Duke.

If the pieces or mechs were good Steiner would have some logic, but Liao? It's demecial
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 16 April 2021, 14:29:49
Adacas, as mentioned the Republic is still cranking out Purifiers.  The Republic did not seem to have as many problems with BA as they did with folks having mechs and vehicles.  They were producing so many, and so lax about where they went, that in several of the MWDA sources planetary police and Republic Standing Guard found Purifier crates stored in warehouses that were forgotten about by the current generation.  Considering MWDA mercs and factions had abundant examples of Purifiers in their forces along with the later invading Capellans the Republic was producing a lot while plenty of others were salvaged w/ the Blakists producing a lot- which follows.

And to make you happy, answering Baldur.  You were right, I thought there was a armor difference between the CC's Trinity and their 3145 quad- I did not have a TRO or source handy and use the other two suits way more.  But . . . outside of the CC- which has never explained how they got it- none of the other Houses have employed it with their Battle Armor IIRC- FREX, the Hauberk as a LRM firing suit could certainly have used it.  Instead it uses Stealth.  Even the Cappies ally the Magistry who also gets Stealth Armor, TSM and other tech from the CC did not get the armor.

It is not said they build it in any sources, without that statement the simplest explanation is they buy it from somewhere.

Finally . . . bluntly, without it being mentioned in production in the Hegemony or Concordat it does not mean the MUL is correct.  The Republic & Dark Age eras are not listed as complete, which means when they clean up & finalize the Periphery those could be removed as other things have been.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 April 2021, 15:00:35
But . . . outside of the CC- which has never explained how they got it- none of the other Houses have employed it with their Battle Armor

The Maskirovka stole the tech from the WoB!

Quote
The Ying Long mounts the cutting-edge mimetic armor used on the Purifier. The Word of Blake stopped just short of official accusations of espionage while the Free Worlds League and Federated Suns wondered if there was collaboration between the Liaos and Blakists.

Ogre (Interdictor) - 3091 - Tvastar Enterprises - Regulus
Trinity Medium Battle Armor (Ying Long) - 3065 - Ceres Metals Industries - Capella
Hauberk Commando - 3088 - Albion Advanced Technologies - New Avalon
Taranis  - 3123 - Krupp Armament Works - Terra
Shen Long - 3092 - Hellespont Industrials - Sian
*HAUBERK U15 - 3076 - Stevens Barracks -  New Avalon
*INFILTRATOR MK. II CORAL INTENT - 3074 - Achernar BattleMechs - New Avalon
*KAGE C - 3077 - New Samarkand Metals - New Samarkand
*YING LONG BC3 - 3078 - Ceres Metals - Capella

The only IS state not "playing" with Mimetic Armor seems to be the Lyrans. The designs marked with a * are prototypes. The Hauberk U15 was the predecesor for the production Hauber Commando. The Kage C went into production, even if small numbers due its function. Outside that, you have 5 Battle Armor designs in use in the Inner Sphere, without counting the Purifier.

Finally . . . bluntly, without it being mentioned in production in the Hegemony or Concordat it does not mean the MUL is correct.  The Republic & Dark Age eras are not listed as complete, which means when they clean up & finalize the Periphery those could be removed as other things have been.

Well, to also say it bluntly, it can also mean that the MUL IS correct. The MUL Team is doing a wonderful job, and from my own observations, seems to have acess to information sources before it gets published. It doesnt mean they can not fall in errors, they are human after all.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 16 April 2021, 15:21:33
Achileus BA is easier. It was made in irian since the 3057 as a mass produced BA for the FWLM, so you had 10 full years of full production before the Jihad, and even in 3067 you have a second supplier, making both the standard version and the WoB one in Gibson (of course, this last source did not survive the Regulans).

And even that, as far as i know, and even with the Blakist sending a couple of nukes to Irian facilities while they retreated from Irian itself, the Achileus was keep in production. Jihad Final Reckoning talks about Irian going full for exporting stuff to compensate for corporate losses, and with branchs in the former FWL, i can see the cheap Achileus beign sold in the common market by Irian.

Referencing the Leonidas fluff there; looks like something key in the supply chain was lost and something else had to be designed for mass-deployment.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 April 2021, 16:09:29
Referencing the Leonidas fluff there; looks like something key in the supply chain was lost and something else had to be designed for mass-deployment.

From the TRO entry looks like that Oriente have some problems of "scarcity" with the Achileus BA, and thus,  designed and began to build the Leonidas.

Quote
The Leonidas battle armor was developed at the turn of the century to fill a gap in Oriente’s military capabilities caused by a scarcity of the Achileus stealth suit. It proved more than adequate to replace the older suit and was soon exported widely across the Inner Sphere and even nearby Periphery realms.

Could it be that Irian stopped trading the BAs to Oriente, or the market competition with the other former FWL states make it more dificult to adquire them. IIRC, while the RoTS and its desmilitarization program closed down a good deal of military factories, the BAs were not reached by the program. At least, the BAs that could go for the RoTS army units.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 16 April 2021, 16:23:50
From the TRO entry looks like that Oriente have some problems of "scarcity" with the Achileus BA, and thus,  designed and began to build the Leonidas.

Could it be that Irian stopped trading the BAs to Oriente, or the market competition with the other former FWL states make it more dificult to adquire them. IIRC, while the RoTS and its desmilitarization program closed down a good deal of military factories, the BAs were not reached by the program. At least, the BAs that could go for the RoTS army units.

Point being it's in their MUL for the duration (for that matter it's in the Tamarind-Abbey MUL for the duration). "We were well supplied with these once, we like the unique thing that they do, we keep them around, we have them now, we'd like even more- much more, but there is just no prospect for expansion." is an easy argument for me to settle for for that sort of thing, and I'd like to stick up for it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 16 April 2021, 16:38:51
The Maskirovka stole the tech from the WoB!

Ogre (Interdictor) - 3091 - Tvastar Enterprises - Regulus
Trinity Medium Battle Armor (Ying Long) - 3065 - Ceres Metals Industries - Capella
Hauberk Commando - 3088 - Albion Advanced Technologies - New Avalon
Taranis  - 3123 - Krupp Armament Works - Terra
Shen Long - 3092 - Hellespont Industrials - Sian
*HAUBERK U15 - 3076 - Stevens Barracks -  New Avalon
*INFILTRATOR MK. II CORAL INTENT - 3074 - Achernar BattleMechs - New Avalon
*KAGE C - 3077 - New Samarkand Metals - New Samarkand
*YING LONG BC3 - 3078 - Ceres Metals - Capella

The only IS state not "playing" with Mimetic Armor seems to be the Lyrans. The designs marked with a * are prototypes. The Hauberk U15 was the predecesor for the production Hauber Commando. The Kage C went into production, even if small numbers due its function. Outside that, you have 5 Battle Armor designs in use in the Inner Sphere, without counting the Purifier.

Uh, 3 factions really since Regulus was just a part of one . . . and IIRC that is not the mass produced Hauberk- is it listed the same as what the Republic produces because I do wonder if it is a export to the FS ally.  Same deal with the Ogre (Interdictor) . . . Regulans and Capellans have had arms trades going on for quite a while, if they had the mimetic locally it would not have been on the alternate suit and could have been put on other native production.  So we still only know of the Republic and Capellans actually producing the armor.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 April 2021, 16:39:30
Point being it's in their MUL for the duration (for that matter it's in the Tamarind-Abbey MUL for the duration). "We were well supplied with these once, we like the unique thing that they do, we keep them around, we have them now, we'd like even more- much more, but there is just no prospect for expansion." is an easy argument for me to settle for for that sort of thing, and I'd like to stick up for it.

But again, Oriente (and Tamarind and other former FWL states) inherit their Achilleus BA by the dropshipload after the disolution, like 14 years in production before the FWL disolution (3071, right?). Even if they get new with dificult, they have enough to be reflected in the MUL. In the case of the Purifier, it was a WoB exclusive BA. You can argue that with salvage, but salvage goes only so far, especially after, again, the only known source of the BA its Terra and the RoTS.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 April 2021, 16:48:28
Uh, 3 factions really since Regulus was just a part of one . . . and IIRC that is not the mass produced Hauberk- is it listed the same as what the Republic produces because I do wonder if it is a export to the FS ally.  Same deal with the Ogre (Interdictor) . . . Regulans and Capellans have had arms trades going on for quite a while, if they had the mimetic locally it would not have been on the alternate suit and could have been put on other native production.  So we still only know of the Republic and Capellans actually producing the armor.

Dude, you are just beign obtuse! The Hauberk Commando IS a production model. Its in TRO:Prototypes, that could be as well called TRO:3090, as most of the entries are production models of what was shown in the various XTROs. Lets see a little part of the Hauberk Commando lore:

Quote
Most importantly, while AAT was forced to initially use salvaged armor and weapon mounts—limiting early production runs to the supply of available salvage— by 3088 they had mastered the production of both technologies, and with them the first wholly home-grown Commando suits.

As for the Ogre, there is not a single sign to the Mimetic armor beign a capellan export. NO A SINGLE ONE. Dude, really, some times it looks like you are beign a contrarian for the sake of it. I am showing you 5 production models from 4 diferent factions, and even a 5th doing short runs of a experiental prototype (the Kage C) and you still keep repeating "only the RoTS and the CC"!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 16 April 2021, 16:58:31
But again, Oriente (and Tamarind and other former FWL states) inherit their Achilleus BA by the dropshipload after the disolution, like 14 years in production before the FWL disolution (3071, right?). Even if they get new with dificult, they have enough to be reflected in the MUL. In the case of the Purifier, it was a WoB exclusive BA. You can argue that with salvage, but salvage goes only so far, especially after, again, the only known source of the BA its Terra and the RoTS.

The Marians (and the Taurans, and Circinus when they existed) would be in the same situation, only regarding a different weapons system. Their arrangements with the WoB gave them a number of Purifiers, enough that it has made it part of their armed forces ever since (and the MuL doesn't require a stupendous amount, not that I'm arguing that the amount is trivial. I'm arguing that having it in the MUL doesn't meet the definition of indicating domestic production or active external sourcing in that Era. Or the era immediately pervious.)

EDIT: "Indicating" is a bad word. It does indicate it. It doesn't determine it.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 April 2021, 17:10:05
The Marians (and the Taurans, and Circinus when they existed) would be in the same situation, only regarding a different weapons system. Their arrangements with the WoB gave them a number of Purifiers, enough that it has made it part of their armed forces ever since (and the MuL doesn't require a stupendous amount, not that I'm arguing that the amount is trivial. I'm arguing that having it in the MUL doesn't meet the definition of indicating domestic production or active external sourcing in that Era. Or the era immediately pervious.)

Could the Marians got some Purifiers from the WOB? Maybe, but i seriously doubt it. The BA began production in 3062, and by August of 3063 Sea O´reilly, the Cesar allied with them lay death, killed by his son Julius, who was decisively anti-WoB. As the Taurians, we know they were allied to the WoB for a long time, so it would not be totally out of this world to see the WoB providing them with some suits, if only to hinder the FS and the CC. As for the Circinians, they were a WoB puppet state, so its not weird that the BA was used by them.

Now, as far as i know, the MUL tries to represent units that a certain faction on a determinated period have in a reasonbale amount, yo ilustrate what their enemies could normally face. Can you use a Dire Wolf in your Tamarind forces? You are free to do it, but inside the lore of the universe, it would be a very unique thing, maybe a single clan warrior that decided defend Tamarind instead of following the Way of kerensky. The problem arise if you want to field Tamarind forces were 1 in 4 mechs are a Dire Wolf. Again, the MUL tries to represent what normally a certain faction can use. We know canonically that the MH had at least one Sunder Omnimech (Juliu´s) and a squad of Kage BA (in the Ordo Vigilis), but that is not represented in the MUL because, as i said, were unique units in the faction.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 16 April 2021, 17:17:55
Could the Marians got some Purifiers from the WOB? Maybe, but i seriously doubt it. The BA began production in 3062, and by August of 3063 Sea O´reilly, the Cesar allied with them lay death, killed by his son Julius, who was decisively anti-WoB. As the Taurians, we know they were allied to the WoB for a long time, so it would not be totally out of this world to see the WoB providing them with some suits, if only to hinder the FS and the CC. As for the Circinians, they were a WoB puppet state, so its not weird that the BA was used by them.

Now, as far as i know, the MUL tries to represent units that a certain faction on a determinated period have in a reasonbale amount, yo ilustrate what their enemies could normally face. Can you use a Dire Wolf in your Tamarind forces? You are free to do it, but inside the lore of the universe, it would be a very unique thing, maybe a single clan warrior that decided defend Tamarind instead of following the Way of kerensky. The problem arise if you want to field Tamarind forces were 1 in 4 mechs are a Dire Wolf. Again, the MUL tries to represent what normally a certain faction can use. We know canonically that the MH had at least one Sunder Omnimech (Juliu´s) and a squad of Kage BA (in the Ordo Vigilis), but that is not represented in the MUL because, as i said, were unique units in the faction.

This isn't a strong argument here (and the Dire Wolf is a bad example). Your difficulty is that you are trivializing the MUL importance of past brief large influxes of Jihad-era legacy equipment in the Dark Age to somebody who's main faction's MUL relies a lot on past brief large influxes of jihad-era legacy equipment, into the Dark Age.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 April 2021, 17:30:10
This isn't a strong argument here (and the Dire Wolf is a bad example). Your difficulty is that you are trivializing the MUL importance of past brief large influxes of Jihad-era legacy equipment in the Dark Age to somebody who's main faction's MUL relies a lot on past brief large influxes of jihad-era legacy equipment, into the Dark Age.

Not at all. But what i am arguing is that about the Purifier, at least in the Marian Hegemony´s case, you dont have a "large influxe of Jihad-era legacy equipment". Tamarind, and the other ex-FWL states had all the equipment that was actually made in the (former) FWL for the FWLM (That was enourmous, even compared to the LC or FS). The Marians never had a canon source for the Purifiers that appear in the MUL, so it would be more than strange to have enough salvage of an item that you never had a considerable access.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 16 April 2021, 21:46:22
Dude, you are just beign obtuse! The Hauberk Commando IS a production model. Its in TRO:Prototypes, that could be as well called TRO:3090, as most of the entries are production models of what was shown in the various XTROs. Lets see a little part of the Hauberk Commando lore:

As for the Ogre, there is not a single sign to the Mimetic armor beign a capellan export. NO A SINGLE ONE. Dude, really, some times it looks like you are beign a contrarian for the sake of it. I am showing you 5 production models from 4 diferent factions, and even a 5th doing short runs of a experiental prototype (the Kage C) and you still keep repeating "only the RoTS and the CC"!

What I said about the Hauberk was mass produced- afaik that suit does not match the production of the standard Hauberk, but yeah that passage does prove the FS produces the armor.  Tried to find something online about the producer but I do not have that TRO.

Ogre is a different story, it has no indications on the main variant where the armor is built IIRC.  Regulus has never been said to build the armor, again unless you have a source that says otherwise the simplest explanation is they import it.

The Hegemony gets access to all sorts of technology because they have purchasing agents positioned around human space that buy salvage.  The Republic kept building lots of Purifiers and did not control BA as tightly as they did mechs, vehicles, ASF or apparently DS- to the point, as I said they lost track of them and 'forgot' companies' worth of suits sitting in storage for various planets police/guard.  Considering how often Purifiers showed up with the factions, Republic, mercs and later invading Capellans it makes a case that the Blakists produced a lot and the Republic never slowed it down.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 16 April 2021, 22:02:38
Ogre is a different story, it has no indications on the main variant where the armor is built IIRC.  Regulus has never been said to build the armor, again unless you have a source that says otherwise the simplest explanation is they import it.

"Gee, the Ogre uses a SRM-2 and Regulus have never build that launcher! The simplest explanation is that they are importing it!"  :facepalm:

Colt, Mimetic armor tech is 30 years old by the time Tvastar builds the thing. The FedSuns was building the same tech 3 years before. The Capellans get their second Mimetic BA model one year later. The Draconians were making the stuff in 3077! Its not clantech, its not RISC Technology. The simplest explanation is that the Regulans were making the stuff.

The Hegemony gets access to all sorts of technology because they have purchasing agents positioned around human space that buy salvage.  The Republic kept building lots of Purifiers and did not control BA as tightly as they did mechs, vehicles, ASF or apparently DS- to the point, as I said they lost track of them and 'forgot' companies' worth of suits sitting in storage for various planets police/guard.  Considering how often Purifiers showed up with the factions, Republic, mercs and later invading Capellans it makes a case that the Blakists produced a lot and the Republic never slowed it down.

My recomendation: Dont use the Clix game representation of units. CGL is not using itand neither should you. Wizkids just created minis and give it to all factions. Now, can the Hegemony "adquire" some comtraband Purifiers form the RoTS? Totally inside the real of posibilities. Can the Hegemony mantain a great enough number of suits to be represented in the MUL for soo much time just with that contraband? Seriously doubt it. The RoTS were idiots, and their "Sword to Plowshares" was even more idiotic, but not even them were so blind to a hemorrage of Purifier suits for soo much time.

But you know what dude, think whatever floats your mind. If you have the image of the Marian Hegemony going trough all the trash bins looking for salvage like some kind of interstellar racoon, be my guest. I presented all the data i could get to present a solid hipotesis, you only keep repeating nonsense.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 16 April 2021, 22:39:00
BT does use the fiction and have used the unit lists to create scenarios & sourcebooks.  BT incorporated the INN articles.  The examples of Purifiers being found all over came from fiction- you know what they are re-releasing right now.

The MUL gives no indication how plentiful anything is- there is no difference on the MUL between a named custom variant and a common production model.  So yes, they could still be patching and repairing the gifted Purifiers along with whatever ones they can buy or they could be legion.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 16 April 2021, 22:45:30
The MUL gives no indication how plentiful anything is- there is no difference on the MUL between a named custom variant and a common production model.

point of order - custom variants carry the Unique tag, which means there are quantifiably few. i think the largest known quantity for a unique-tagged unit is 12 for a limited run of prototypes... for something to show up on a faction list it has to have multiple examples in multiple formations - decidedly more than a dozen. so there is a distinct delineation there.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 16 April 2021, 22:47:52
Fine, Orion IIC in the Republic . . . only one known example, has no indication.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 16 April 2021, 22:57:21
unique means very very few in all of the known universe. if a faction was awarded availability on a particular unit that isn't unique (like, say, Kerensky's Orion), they definitely have more than one. if you think that's in error, feel free to report the issue.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Elmoth on 17 April 2021, 01:14:52
Not to intrude into the heated debate, but one question.

Apparently the Marians have no official source of Purifiers, but the FWLM had quite a few of the suits (meaning: they have it in spades for what I read from your thread).

What if the Marians never had an official source but simply raided for it? A few successful raids and you can accumulate significant numbers of suits and spares after all.
:)

@Sartis, they is not the generally accepted meaning of Unique. Unique means a single unit. It can be replicated for sure, but it is a single custom mech. The moment it gets copied it stops being unique. For example, Sparky might the best short range Griffin ever made, but it has never been replicated in canon. If this is not what the authors of the MUL mean when they say that a unit is Unique maybe they should find another word for it. Ths twouldnt be bad imo, in the same way that retconnning that all Mechs said to be extinct could be retconned to be very rare and the BT experience would improve for me :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 17 April 2021, 01:39:59
Think I'll stick to Ravagers and Marauders now.

Anyway is there a guide to getting the most out of the MUL?  I don't even know what stars next to the names mean.  Feel like a green who got told to charge their glowbelt. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 17 April 2021, 05:23:21
From the TRO entry looks like that Oriente have some problems of "scarcity" with the Achileus BA, and thus,  designed and began to build the Leonidas.

Could it be that Irian stopped trading the BAs to Oriente, or the market competition with the other former FWL states make it more dificult to adquire them. IIRC, while the RoTS and its desmilitarization program closed down a good deal of military factories, the BAs were not reached by the program. At least, the BAs that could go for the RoTS army units.

Jessica's husband was the Irian boss. It would be a contradiction in canon if Irian caused Oriente's Achileus shortage. Just a little tidbit ;)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 17 April 2021, 06:39:31
Think I'll stick to Ravagers and Marauders now.

Anyway is there a guide to getting the most out of the MUL?  I don't even know what stars next to the names mean.  Feel like a green who got told to charge their glowbelt.

The star tells you what source book the unit is in, just hover your curser over the star. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Elmoth on 17 April 2021, 07:13:42
Iirc the stars are the common designs, no? Maybe si need a MUL guide as well xD
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 17 April 2021, 08:19:43
Stars mean featured in a source like the primary variant in a TRO
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 18 April 2021, 21:42:54
Stars mean featured in a source like the primary variant in a TRO
which 90% of the time just means "the art shown actually depicts this variant"
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 18 April 2021, 21:52:37
yeah, it's not complicated

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 19 April 2021, 04:29:17
Thanks.

Makes more sense when I take it out of mobile browser. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 19 April 2021, 10:17:39
Now to wait for Friday to have if we link some more material more modern or clannner
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 20 April 2021, 03:01:05
Sic. Nova Roma Victor
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 20 April 2021, 10:11:06
Sic. Nova Roma Victor

And yes, waiting for hope is the last thing that is lost, although as I said in the group I am pessismic about the future
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 20 April 2021, 11:33:00
I like Marian gear...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 20 April 2021, 13:11:57
I like Marian gear...

If you are interested in our suppliers there is another way to get our equipment, apart from that you have other sources of equipment
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 20 April 2021, 13:27:50
If you are interested in our suppliers there is another way to get our equipment, apart from that you have other sources of equipment

The new Illyrian battlearmor plant is fantastic (we never had one of those before), assuming the Lothians don't nab it or mobilize to return the status quo, but the Testudo plant is just unreachable and Caesar's wife never sent that item our way to buy anyway. And furthermore without the Testudo supply chain-sourced upgrades the Centurion MilitiaMech isn't as worthwhile on the front lines in 3150 as it was circa 3135 (not that'd I turn down having one of them for every planetary militia company).

(I've thought about this stuff).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 20 April 2021, 13:34:24
I'm sure they'll be available in Taurian space to buy assuming the MH doesn't turn into Squats in a few books. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 20 April 2021, 13:51:56
The new Illyrian battlearmor plant is fantastic (we never had one of those before), assuming the Lothians don't nab it or mobilize to return the status quo, but the Testudo plant is just unreachable and Caesar's wife never sent that item our way to buy anyway. And furthermore without the Testudo supply chain-sourced upgrades the Centurion MilitiaMech isn't as worthwhile on the front lines in 3150 as it was circa 3135 (not that'd I turn down having one of them for every planetary militia company).

(I've thought about this stuff).

Very funny ... do they have Kendall there to stock up on us, don't the Lotharan coming to the rescue? No thanks, I am going home very calmly, it is not something that you should change the name of the principality again (for losing the Capital again)

As for the Testudo, ask Oriente, Orloff and Andurien to them we have sold
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 20 April 2021, 14:57:44
I'm pretty sure the chance of the Lothians getting involved is about as much as the Wob coming back and nuking the Wolves off Terra.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 20 April 2021, 15:22:00
I'm pretty sure the chance of the Lothians getting involved is about as much as the Wob coming back and nuking the Wolves off Terra.

I'm not so sure- the Caesar has made Lothian detente a consistent policy for long enough that it could shape Lothian thinking. (And while I know that they are good-hearted people that are the victims of their own success and never-quit can-do attitude so that aggressor-states have lost quite a few worlds to them as conflicts drag on...) The Duchy of Tamarind Abbey has been one of the most explosively acquisitive states in the Dark Age; it now stretches from Illyria to Bolan and pursues its own expansionist foreign policy. I'm not suggesting the Lothians are or even ought to be more concerned of Tamarind-Abbey than the Marians, but I am suggesting that whether or not to take actions that would swing the balance of power away from Tamarind-Abbey is a decision they should be pondering now. The matter is on their doorstep.

EDIT: Of course it's possible that the result of their pondering could be to go through with abolishing slavery and snapping up some old Palatinate worlds. But I'd keep those guys in mind.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 20 April 2021, 17:51:46
I'm not so sure- the Caesar has made Lothian detente a consistent policy for long enough that it could shape Lothian thinking. (And while I know that they are good-hearted people that are the victims of their own success and never-quit can-do attitude so that aggressor-states have lost quite a few worlds to them as conflicts drag on...) The Duchy of Tamarind Abbey has been one of the most explosively acquisitive states in the Dark Age; it now stretches from Illyria to Bolan and pursues its own expansionist foreign policy. I'm not suggesting the Lothians are or even ought to be more concerned of Tamarind-Abbey than the Marians, but I am suggesting that whether or not to take actions that would swing the balance of power away from Tamarind-Abbey is a decision they should be pondering now. The matter is on their doorstep.

EDIT: Of course it's possible that the result of their pondering could be to go through with abolishing slavery and snapping up some old Palatinate worlds. But I'd keep those guys in mind.

As it can be, it can be anything, total the writers seem to be in the line of what you suggest to destroy the Marian Hegemony

I clarify that is what I think and others
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 20 April 2021, 22:27:53
It's only a matter brought up that Lothians and Marians have warmed up because Lothian military can attend the Marian academies.  But it's not been decades to a century, a random blurb civil war isn't enough to make the Lothians want to get involved unless they were supporting a side.

And yeah, lot of Marian fans think we're getting axed soon.  Anything can happen, although I doubt the Capellan-Magistry will be considering punching the FWL anytime soon since Liao is fixed on Earth now.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 21 April 2021, 03:01:52
And yes, waiting for hope is the last thing that is lost, although as I said in the group I am pessismic about the future

Viva Nova Roma! Hope is the last thing that is lost :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 21 April 2021, 05:17:13
Life in a nutshell gentlemen.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 21 April 2021, 11:12:25
While we wait for Friday to see what happens to us or what is possible because the Mul updates it days later, what do you think we will go from the Clan light mech this time? Or will they keep bringing us light and zero mechs up? From Inner Sphere Tech something falls, but not Clan

And will there still be no mention of the Marian Hegemony both in what is built or among the famous pilots?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 21 April 2021, 11:30:56

And yeah, lot of Marian fans think we're getting axed soon.  Anything can happen, although I doubt the Capellan-Magistry will be considering punching the FWL anytime soon since Liao is fixed on Earth now.

The Alphard region is too strong for that; who is going to spend the brigades and years to go in after it? The Hegemony has good fundamentals. Losing all the post-Clan Invasion gains is possible from here on out but the possible fall of the O'Reilly line is the potential faction-altering consequence I see from Dark Age reverses.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 21 April 2021, 11:40:05
The Alphard region is too strong for that; who is going to spend the brigades and years to go in after it? The Hegemony has good fundamentals. Losing all the post-Clan Invasion gains is possible from here on out but the possible fall of the O'Reilly line is the potential faction-altering consequence I see from Dark Age reverses.

Curious, your theory about the end of the Hegemony is similar to that of another user who appeared and disappeared a few years ago
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 21 April 2021, 12:39:28
Curious, your theory about the end of the Hegemony is similar to that of another user who appeared and disappeared a few years ago

I should hope so- it makes sense, it looks like one of the obvious possibilities given the situation. The Hegemony doesn't lack for internal legitimacy in the Alphard region at all, it survived the complete decapitation of its governance and job one of the most ambitious general at hand was to find the secret potential claimant (instead of quietly having him murdered, not bringing the matter up, and setting up a regional warlord). That's some impressive spontaneous legitimacy. That being said there have been a relentless series of reverses under the current Ceasar; they really are systematically losing a century of gains. But it is important to keep in mind that independent of that century of gains the core of the Hegemony is stable and powerful; good industry, loyal population, intact army, committed elite classes.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 21 April 2021, 13:04:22
I should hope so- it makes sense, it looks like one of the obvious possibilities given the situation. The Hegemony doesn't lack for internal legitimacy in the Alphard region at all, it survived the complete decapitation of its governance and job one of the most ambitious general at hand was to find the secret potential claimant (instead of quietly having him murdered, not bringing the matter up, and setting up a regional warlord). That's some impressive spontaneous legitimacy. That being said there have been a relentless series of reverses under the current Ceasar; they really are systematically losing a century of gains. But it is important to keep in mind that independent of that century of gains the core of the Hegemony is stable and powerful; good industry, loyal population, intact army, committed elite classes.


Nobody wants that, except you and probably the authors of the Fluff to benefit a pet, if they do that they will lose all Hegemonic players, except those who want to be pets
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 21 April 2021, 13:26:22

Nobody wants that, except you and probably the authors of the Fluff to benefit a pet, if they do that they will lose all Hegemonic players, except those who want to be pets

I don't want that- I see that as your worst-case scenario, and I don't see how the Hegemony being on the verge of extinction has a way forward.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 21 April 2021, 13:30:00
I don't want that- I see that as your worst-case scenario, and I don't see how the Hegemony being on the verge of extinction has a way forward.

Between extinction and a reduction to a puppet state there is no great difference
There are worse fates than death and disappearance, which is shame, and being reduced to a puppet or clown from the rest of the universe, there are people who would surely like

Since the Mechwarrior Clicktech Fluff, the Hegemony has embedded blow after blow, in general fluff, in technological development, in military development, in territorial expansion, they did not even drop an idea that the Hegemony instead of leaving the conquest of the neighbors began to colonize neighboring systems not inhabited or abandoned by others and there are already lots of them in the area
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 21 April 2021, 15:13:20
I refer to it as punching bag syndrome after experiencing it for the better part of a decade well before joining the BT community.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 22 April 2021, 03:30:43
That's something the Hegemony and the Federated Suns has in common.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 22 April 2021, 07:34:44
That's something the Hegemony and the Federated Suns has in common.

The Hegemony have no idea what it's like to be a punching bag in BattleTech.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 April 2021, 09:42:35
Well speaking of important things and leaving aside unimportant people who believe that Rec Guide 14 touches us? Mech Light or medium or nothing?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 22 April 2021, 10:43:33
Wait I get it now.

Uh, I don't think we'll get a mention in 14.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 April 2021, 11:39:35
Wait I get it now.

Uh, I don't think we'll get a mention in 14.

I am not saying a mention, (which would be wonderful but we do not dream of things that seem to be that they do not care), I mean if we will play some second-line Clanner mech style the Vixen or some new mech or some new version of a classic mech
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Elmoth on 22 April 2021, 12:07:49
So far we have had the following punching bags.

1. Copies
2. Taurians
3. Wobblies and FWL. But GWL has always been the uninteresting faction so hey.
3. Suns and Lyrans.

I think now it is the turn of the Cappies again and the dracs, that are about to get a 2 or 3 clan invasion as the selected ilclan punching bag.

I do not think the MH is much of a punching bag faction. Probably it's expansion will be curtailed, but that this all.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 22 April 2021, 12:13:16
So far we have had the following punching bags.

1. Copies
2. Taurians
3. Wobblies and FWL. But GWL has always been the uninteresting faction so hey.
3. Suns and Lyrans.

I think now it is the turn of the Cappies again and the dracs, that are about to get a 2 or 3 clan invasion as the selected ilclan punching bag.

I do not think the MH is much of a punching bag faction. Probably it's expansion will be curtailed, but that this all.

Not punching bag, but designated "evil mook" faction. You know, the one you need to portrait like "kind of evil" and that have armies that fold like tinfoil to any opposing force.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 22 April 2021, 13:43:23
That is quasi-punching bag to me.  Like Chaos Marines, or Galactic Empire.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 April 2021, 13:52:27
Basically by decision of the authors we are the bad fool, with good equipment and excellent troops in all the books written but when fighting we trip over our feet, we act silly or suicidal, and we are unable to do anything against less armed troops, for true all our political movements that until the previous book were working have no effect on the next book.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 22 April 2021, 14:25:33
any new toys for the hegemony would likely come from the periphery general pipeline. i'm not privy to the machinations of the writers any more than most people most of the time so there's always the possibility of a shiny new factory popping up, but based on the extant industrial base, i would put the over/under at 0.5 for the rest of the series.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 April 2021, 14:40:23
any new toys for the hegemony would likely come from the periphery general pipeline. i'm not privy to the machinations of the writers any more than most people most of the time so there's always the possibility of a shiny new factory popping up, but based on the extant industrial base, i would put the over/under at 0.5 for the rest of the series.

Thanks for the comment Sartris, hopefully something appears in our options or collateral info of what you mention in what remains of the Rec Guide
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 22 April 2021, 14:45:58
any new toys for the hegemony would likely come from the periphery general pipeline. i'm not privy to the machinations of the writers any more than most people most of the time so there's always the possibility of a shiny new factory popping up, but based on the extant industrial base, i would put the over/under at 0.5 for the rest of the series.

Hopefully that General periphery gets a good expansion so it benefits all of us.  I wouldn't be opposed to some more Marian variations of mechs though.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 22 April 2021, 15:14:00
any new toys for the hegemony would likely come from the periphery general pipeline. i'm not privy to the machinations of the writers any more than most people most of the time so there's always the possibility of a shiny new factory popping up, but based on the extant industrial base, i would put the over/under at 0.5 for the rest of the series.

Funny thing is, most of the MH Fans dont want new shinny things, they just want to know what things are actually made in the nation!  :D

Would love to see a modern "marian" Emperor for example.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 22 April 2021, 15:29:00
Funny thing is, most of the MH Fans dont want new shinny things, they just want to know what things are actually made in the nation!  :D

Would love to see a modern "marian" Emperor for example.

I think shiny new and what is actually built around here can be mutually exclusive...  Ok maybe I hope too much, might be brain damage.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 22 April 2021, 15:43:35
I did bless them with a native-made Centurion....
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 April 2021, 16:04:45
Funny thing is, most of the MH Fans dont want new shinny things, they just want to know what things are actually made in the nation!  :D

Would love to see a modern "marian" Emperor for example.

The eternal talks in the Marian Facebook group ..., it would be interesting to know what local production of modern mechs exists beyond the already known Locust and Commando

Any other mech that swells our ranks are welcome, be they new version classic mechs or Jihad / Early Republic or post 3050 versions.

And no Militiamechs don't count
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 22 April 2021, 16:13:28
Funny thing is, most of the MH Fans dont want new shinny things, they just want to know what things are actually made in the nation!  :D

Would love to see a modern "marian" Emperor for example.

sort of an inside joke if you've seen the factory list... anything would constitute shiny.

And no Militiamechs don't count

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/l0HlvtIPzPdt2usKs/200.gif)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 22 April 2021, 16:23:34
And no Militiamechs don't count

If they march into battle with the stompy-stompy and strike down enemies with the shooty-shooty, they absolutely do count.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 April 2021, 16:25:54
sort of an inside joke if you've seen the factory list... anything would constitute shiny.

And no Militiamechs don't count

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/l0HlvtIPzPdt2usKs/200.gif)

As mechs do not count for something they are in the Industrymechs section in the MUL ...
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 22 April 2021, 16:28:34
yeah. i was indicating that if you don't count industrials there's not much to count
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 April 2021, 16:28:43
If they march into battle with the stompy-stompy and strike down enemies with the shooty-shooty, they absolutely do count.

They are listed as Industrymechs, I do not see any state commanding industrymechs to the front lines in an open war, it does not count militia actions against pirates, sending Centurion Militiamechs to a military offensive for the only thing that serves is to lose pilots and disperse the enemy's attacks

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 22 April 2021, 16:38:34
They are listed as Industrymechs...
So?
Quote
...I do not see any state commanding industrymechs to the front lines in an open war...

You have seen exactly that, it's called the Marian Hegemony.

I'm not saying that sending MilitiaMechs is a good idea. But it is an indisputable fact that the Hegemony does exactly that, and apparently has done so for the past seventy-odd years.

Also, the CN9-H is listed in the MUL as a BattleMech.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 April 2021, 16:51:11
So?
You have seen exactly that, it's called the Marian Hegemony.

I'm not saying that sending MilitiaMechs is a good idea. But it is an indisputable fact that the Hegemony does exactly that, and apparently has done so for the past seventy-odd years.

Also, the CN9-H is listed in the MUL as a BattleMech.


Where does it say that it has sent industrymechs to combat with the MHAF?, Reads the Fluff, only the last design was sent to the III Legio as a training mech, all the rest is for MILITIAS.

The CN9-H is no longer listed in Dark Age in the list of eligible mechs in the MUL, that would be in 3077 not now

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 April 2021, 17:02:52
yeah. i was indicating that if you don't count industrials there's not much to count

Only our "Ghost" Locust and Commando designs that Greekfire told us that it could be said that the Hegemony started to build locally with local parts production, after a first time since 3065 that had built those and other designs with parts and equipment coming from outside. first from WoB and then from assorted providers
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 22 April 2021, 17:07:44
I need to get my hands on the Irregulars book to see the militiamech page.  I thought it was usually consigned to export and defenses and wouldn't see the pitched confrontation real battlemechs do, coupled with the fact it mostly faces Periphery pirates and not IS merc or house regiments normally.  I guess this stems from the confusion of not having a major update for periphery nations, but between new tanks and battle armors we have laxed on bm designs if we're still only producing Locusts, Commandos, and Centurions.  I can't even remember the citation for this anymore too.  We do have a bigger selection of retrofits obviously which I'm not complaining about, we also don't have that many issues with obtaining foreign designs. Still this has only cumulated into... an improved primitive Centurion that was upgraded into an industrial Militiamech. 

It's a start, it's just not an appreciable start compared to everyone else but I can understand both camps views on it.  I just think the Marians can advance further and still retain that "niche" of having larger squad compositions, lower tech, and making up for being behind the proverbial curve with higher combat experience.  You have cases for the Caesars keeping tech lowish for more mechs as a cost reason, and then you have Wobbies trying to keep the Marians at the end of the stick to keep their deal sweet.  Both are things of the past and can be expanded on by now.  The Marians had no issue remaking (and losing) Legio V after all.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 22 April 2021, 17:18:25
Only our "Ghost" Locust and Commando designs that Greekfire told us that it could be said that the Hegemony started to build locally with local parts production, after a first time since 3065 that had built those and other designs with parts and equipment coming from outside. first from WoB and then from assorted providers

i didn't say none, after all. the MH's mech manufacturing is in the same group as Randis and the Fronc Reaches
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 April 2021, 17:21:31
If only Militiamech were made in 60/65 years of industrial military production it would be quite pathetic, since from 3085 to 3150 there are more or less that many years, that is, nothing more than 3 versions of the same militiamech? It's pathetic where you look at it
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 April 2021, 17:23:10
i didn't say none, after all. the MH's mech manufacturing is in the same group as Randis and the Fronc Reaches

Unless they do have mechs identified as being manufactured in their factories, we do not have anything outside of the Militiamech.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: GreekFire on 22 April 2021, 17:37:25
I did bless them with a native-made Centurion....

Oh, those are yours? They're really fun designs, I played a few H2H's alongside a few Testudos the other day and it was great.

Anyone else play with any fun Marian forces lately?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 April 2021, 17:45:09
Oh, those are yours? They're really fun designs, I played a few H2H's alongside a few Testudos the other day and it was great.

Anyone else play with any fun Marian forces lately?

I think some of us answered that a few pages back
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: GreekFire on 22 April 2021, 17:47:41
edit: Never mind.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 April 2021, 17:55:07
Let's see, we are not complaining, it is that what we say here is that wanting to build an industrial military apparatus based exclusively on a local production of Militimechs or Mech Primitives does not do much as a state, you want to use them for a laugh with friends, okay Do you want to use them to represent militias? Okay, do you want to make them representative of the MHAF mechs in Dark Age? I don't think so, and I know that here there are many of us who think that way, nothing more than that about the Primitives / Militiamechs

Before they brought up the subject again, it was to ask what we would play in Rec Guide 14, and we talked about that, and then the subject came up that we manufactured and what we could expect, Sartris made some very measured comments on the subject and nothing more than that.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 22 April 2021, 17:59:14
i didn't say none, after all. the MH's mech manufacturing is in the same group as Randis and the Fronc Reaches

Hawkwolves, Commandos, Dervish, and Warhammers or Hunchmen, riflemen, Clints, Toros, Wasps, and Stingers newly added in recent years.  I'm sure there's more than what's on page 189 of Field Manual 3145 and yes, I left out the variants being older because I'm trying to shorten how long this response is.  Randis makes a Marian refit of the Commando and it's kinda hilarious.

But our battlemech lines don't really specify what we have other than battlemech plants expanding.  I want to believe it's just information being absent rather than specifically stating we just make niche tanks and new battle armors. 

Writing longer responses is helping me ignore this migraine so thanks guys.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 22 April 2021, 18:18:22
Marian Arms either needs to get a TAG fit into a version of the CN9-H(X), or clear the torso. Although I suppose the 50-rocket battery isn't much of an issue there. Either way synergies are important for that kind of thing.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 April 2021, 18:27:26
Marian Arms either needs to get a TAG fit into a version of the CN9-H(X), or clear the torso. Although I suppose the 50-rocket battery isn't much of an issue there. Either way synergies are important for that kind of thing.

The CN9-H no longer exists in the mechs available for the MHAF in Dark Age, if what you mean is that based on the Centurion Chassis you can go towards a version of Centurion with TAG and some other weapons and if it could be but if not They say that we have it, it is even difficult for us to theorize the subject, we have 3 Mech factories at least confirmed and another suspected
ATC Alphard
Marian Arms - Alphard
ATC Addhara
And maybe something that HMI does in Pompeii although it can be parts of mechs, reactors and radiators
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 22 April 2021, 18:30:57
Nevermind.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 22 April 2021, 18:35:24
I did bless them with a native-made Centurion....

The original form XTRO:Retrotech, or the new from Irregulars?

Thing is, i totally get the marian fans. I know that building a mech in-universe is not a easy task, with the number of interconected and dependant industries and facilities you have to set up to actually produce the mech, but i think that if Randis.....heck, if New St. Andrews and the Rim Collection could open industri/primitive lines, and later upgrade to SW tech, it would be logical for the MH to be building "modern" (by modern i mean at the very least the SL tech the IS could produce in 3050) units, at least in some of their factories. I am not talking that the MH is suddenly spitting XXL Ferro Lamellor mechs with home-built Clan Weapondry, but i could see the MH having at the very least half of their line producing stuff like the SL era Emperor, or some other newer upgrade of the Gladiator or Locust/Commando.

PD: As I always say, i was very surprised during the Jihad to see Randis producing a mech, even if primitive, and was very surprised when i read they were producing 3 models. And now in the DA they are making slightly more modern models. All made by a single planet (with some other friends).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 22 April 2021, 18:39:31
The original form XTRO:Retrotech, or the new from Irregulars?

Thing is, i totally get the marian fans. I know that building a mech in-universe is not a easy task, with the number of interconected and dependant industries and facilities you have to set up to actually produce the mech, but i think that if Randis.....heck, if New St. Andrews and the Rim Collection could open industri/primitive lines, and later upgrade to SW tech, it would be logical for the MH to be building "modern" (by modern i mean at the very least the SL tech the IS could produce in 3050) units, at least in some of their factories. I am not talking that the MH is suddenly spitting XXL Ferro Lamellor mechs with home-built Clan Weapondry, but i could see the MH having at the very least half of their line producing stuff like the SL era Emperor, or some other newer upgrade of the Gladiator or Locust/Commando.

PD: As I always say, i was very surprised during the Jihad to see Randis producing a mech, even if primitive, and was very surprised when i read they were producing 3 models. And now in the DA they are making slightly more modern models. All made by a single planet (with some other friends).

They even upgraded that original model.  So Randis gets 4 mechs, 2 at SL tech level, a Marian Commando variant, and their own unique missile boat that is probably not half bad.  Now that I re-read that, yeah it makes more sense why other Marian fans are having conniptions over it. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 22 April 2021, 18:43:50
The CN9-H no longer exists in the mechs available for the MHAF in Dark Age, if what you mean is that based on the Centurion Chassis you can go towards a version of Centurion with TAG and some other weapons and if it could be but if not They say that we have it, it is even difficult for us to theorize the subject, we have 3 Mech factories at least confirmed and another suspected
ATC Alphard
Marian Arms - Alphard
ATC Addhara
And maybe something that HMI does in Pompeii although it can be parts of mechs, reactors and radiators

I meant the MilitaMech design path, which broke into the big leagues when they started upgrading it with components from the Testudo supply chain. There's a niche for lower-end mechs that synergize well with better quality conventionals.

EDIT: Although I think the non-hostile environment limitation is going to keep it to defensive deployments. The Marians may hit on a "legionnaire" (not the Legionnaire design, the role) mech, I think they can do it, "medium trooper" is exactly where to do it, but being able to operate most everywhere is part of being a mass-deployed generalist.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 22 April 2021, 18:44:19
They even upgraded that original model.  So Randis gets 4 mechs, 2 at SL tech level, a Marian Commando variant, and their own unique missile boat that is probably not half bad.  Now that I re-read that, yeah it makes more sense why other Marian fans are having conniptions over it.

Well, "technically" the Commando -4H and Hawkwolf -4F are SL tech, thanks to the RL and MML-5 not beign introductory tech. But i would not call them "upgraded". I think the bare minimun to call a mech "upgraded" is the Hound.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 22 April 2021, 18:48:18
I meant the MilitaMech design path, which broke into the big leagues when they started upgrading it with components from the Testudo supply chain. There's a niche for lower-end mechs that synergize well with better quality conventionals.

If you change the reactor and something else would make sense to put TAG already with the expense that is made with the Ferrofiber and the UCA / 10 is almost at the values of a 3050 mech without so many benefits so better invest in a logical reactor modernization, chassis and internal structure things that the hegemony of long ago already manufactures
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 22 April 2021, 18:58:23
Well, "technically" the Commando -4H and Hawkwolf -4F are SL tech, thanks to the RL and MML-5 not beign introductory tech. But i would not call them "upgraded". I think the bare minimun to call a mech "upgraded" is the Hound.

Right, still new to all this.  I don't know the context of what standard starts at, I'll get there.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 22 April 2021, 19:03:43
If you change the reactor and something else would make sense to put TAG already with the expense that is made with the Ferrofiber and the UCA / 10 is almost at the values of a 3050 mech without so many benefits so better invest in a logical reactor modernization, chassis and internal structure things that the hegemony of long ago already manufactures

The real limitation there is that recent natively produced Marian gear also all exists for export, and are nicely competitive in their niche- everything sells. the Ravagers sell, Marauder BA sells, the Testudo sells, the Centurion MilitiaMech sells. A smaller production run (so that the output might go entirely to the Legios) higher end mech is sort of pointless. They can buy those; they apparently do.

EDIT: Well, maybe they'll get a Thud. Hadrian of Pompey being told to get into the battlemech business is an outstanding plotpoint, they handle 260-rated Fusion Engines making Shilones, there's a Thunderbolt guide coming up. I don't see the point of them doing it in 3150 other than being able to say that they have a domestic heavy, though.

EDIT2: It's most like Pompey. In 3142 a large Tamarind-Abbey force raided it looking for battlemech parts; needless to say I can't recall any designs in use with the Unified Duchy Command that rely on rocket-launchers.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 22 April 2021, 21:33:35
The real limitation there is that recent natively produced Marian gear also all exists for export, and are nicely competitive in their niche- everything sells. the Ravagers sell, Marauder BA sells, the Testudo sells, the Centurion MilitiaMech sells. A smaller production run (so that the output might go entirely to the Legios) higher end mech is sort of pointless. They can buy those; they apparently do.

EDIT: Well, maybe they'll get a Thud. Hadrian of Pompey being told to get into the battlemech business is an outstanding plotpoint, they handle 260-rated Fusion Engines making Shilones, there's a Thunderbolt guide coming up. I don't see the point of them doing it in 3150 other than being able to say that they have a domestic heavy, though.

Someone correct me because I don't have all the 3145 readouts for this and I don't want to quote Sarna but:

Centurion for militias sure, that's partly a side business because a lot of people inside and out of the Hegemony wanted it.  Ravager, Marauder, Testudo?  Those was built domestic first and then sold later because there was a demand and it's hard not to get a weapons market through the Taurians.  Especially since the Testudo was built literally because of infantry grievances in needing better support.  Can't think of the rest because these ones pop the most but I still can't see the point in the argument.

I know you're still salty the FWL didn't get the 10SE and 11 but please keep your bias in your own board.  I don't see anything hampering a reason for technology to and manufacturing to not proliferate to the Marians as Adacas said with the modern lighter stuff.  More primitive or retro variants, or... standard old SL?  Regardless quite a few minor powers that recovered from the Dark Age build their own mechs now.  It's shameful we don't even get mentions of what we actually build here. 

Anyway I think the Tbolt would be great for domestic use, it's an awesome mech.  I doubt it would be a feature for the periphery in general just yet.  I'm making a wide assumption here, I assume all of the Ilclan rec books are focusing on IS and clan stuff only and not if it proliferated outward.  I haven't read any of them.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 23 April 2021, 00:07:34

I know you're still salty the FWL didn't get the 10SE and 11 but please keep your bias in your own board.  I don't see anything hampering a reason for technology to and manufacturing to not proliferate to the Marians as Adacas said with the modern lighter stuff.  More primitive or retro variants, or... standard old SL?  Regardless quite a few minor powers that recovered from the Dark Age build their own mechs now.  It's shameful we don't even get mentions of what we actually build here. 


I'm Tamarind-Abbey FWL, I really don't care about that kind of thing- it's the happy side effect of making nothing domestically. I think the Marians retooling mech production to a smaller output high-tech mech design in 3150 timeline would be a catastrophic mistake, and I think their design gap in the years prior is a mass-produced trooper that synergizes well with their conventional gear and can be used in their front-line. The H3 Centurion from irregulars isn't it (among other things, because of the environmental sealing but mostly because while building a slightly-better than 3025 tech battlemech at industrial mech costs using industrial mech and advanced but off-the-shelf components is impressive, it doesn't alter their situation much if they aren't throwing Cohorts of the things around (on planets with breathable atmosphere).

If the Marians are using their military industrial plant to its utmost, they make good gear, they are selling everything that they make in excess of their needs, and they can buy whatever shortfalls they need at better quality than they can make domestically, in quantities determined by purchasing power... they are in a wonderful, enviable position. High-end heavy mech production envy is a deeply stupid vice.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 23 April 2021, 02:16:19
I'm Tamarind-Abbey FWL, I really don't care about that kind of thing- it's the happy side effect of making nothing domestically. I think the Marians retooling mech production to a smaller output high-tech mech design in 3150 timeline would be a catastrophic mistake, and I think their design gap in the years prior is a mass-produced trooper that synergizes well with their conventional gear and can be used in their front-line. The H3 Centurion from irregulars isn't it (among other things, because of the environmental sealing but mostly because while building a slightly-better than 3025 tech battlemech at industrial mech costs using industrial mech and advanced but off-the-shelf components is impressive, it doesn't alter their situation much if they aren't throwing Cohorts of the things around (on planets with breathable atmosphere).

If the Marians are using their military industrial plant to its utmost, they make good gear, they are selling everything that they make in excess of their needs, and they can buy whatever shortfalls they need at better quality than they can make domestically, in quantities determined by purchasing power... they are in a wonderful, enviable position. High-end heavy mech production envy is a deeply stupid vice.

I'm glad you don't care for that thing, but Marian players do in most respects from what I've seen.  It's one thing to assert your viewpoint from the plot horse, but even though your commanders aren't making suicidal tactical decisions written in by rushed writing purely by contrivance, you forgot to be envious of something else greater than the Marian industrial complex and drive to be self reliant:

We didn't have our arses saved by the clans interfering with the Lyran invasion.   :thumbsup:  That's pretty damn good in retrospect no matter what we all believe in.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 23 April 2021, 08:34:01
If you change the reactor and something else would make sense to put TAG already with the expense that is made with the Ferrofiber and the UCA / 10 is almost at the values of a 3050 mech without so many benefits so better invest in a logical reactor modernization, chassis and internal structure things that the hegemony of long ago already manufactures

Yes. The Hegemony needs to be able to produce these standard items that other factions build for granted. Although, it's funny the notable pilot of the Centurion MilitiaMech is able to evade our veteran Legios while raiding the Hegemony with junk Mechs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 23 April 2021, 10:43:14
I'm glad you don't care for that thing, but Marian players do in most respects from what I've seen.  It's one thing to assert your viewpoint from the plot horse, but even though your commanders aren't making suicidal tactical decisions written in by rushed writing purely by contrivance, you forgot to be envious of something else greater than the Marian industrial complex and drive to be self reliant:

We didn't have our arses saved by the clans interfering with the Lyran invasion.   :thumbsup:  That's pretty damn good in retrospect no matter what we all believe in.

Suicidal tactical decisions are the Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey's balliwick, notably the 7th Tamarind Regulars pulled a Fredericksburg against III Legio on Gibraltar. What has happened to the Hegemony as of the start of 3151 is that a strategic decision- however it was made- (expanding their offensives) has led to a situation where operational choices can't be good (Killgore having to use his own breakthrough as a strategic reserve and committing it to a pitched battle back in Hegemony territory- he wouldn't have done it if he didn't have to, and he wouldn't have stuck it out against a brigade formation if he could have walked away from the planet). Tactically they are as solid as ever.

I think that you don't comprehend one of the strengths of your chosen faction affiliation. The Marian military industrial complex is in doctrine a thing of beauty.

(EDIT: re "however it was made"- I think that there is a non-zero chance that it was an intentional decision made domestically, and the purpose was to wreck some Marian institution (either the army or the Caesar) for the benefit of some other (possibly domestic) party. That would not be without precedent. Or it could have been the same thing, only involving SAFE. It could also just be straight Victory Disease- years of easy gains calling down hubris. I'd like a closer pass in lore about all this.)

(EDIT2: Or the Magistracy! I don't trust those people.)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 23 April 2021, 11:21:03
Suicidal tactical decisions are the Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey's balliwick, notably the 7th Tamarind Regulars pulled a Fredericksburg against III Legio on Gibraltar. What has happened to the Hegemony as of the start of 3151 is that a strategic decision- however it was made- (expanding their offensives) has led to a situation where operational choices can't be good (Killgore having to use his own breakthrough as a strategic reserve and committing it to a pitched battle back in Hegemony territory- he wouldn't have done it if he didn't have to, and he wouldn't have stuck it out against a brigade formation if he could have walked away from the planet). Tactically they are as solid as ever.

I think that you don't comprehend one of the strengths of your chosen faction affiliation. The Marian military industrial complex is in doctrine a thing of beauty.

(EDIT: re "however it was made"- I think that there is a non-zero chance that it was an intentional decision made domestically, and the purpose was to wreck some Marian institution (either the army or the Caesar) for the benefit of some other (possibly domestic) party. That would not be without precedent. Or it could have been the same thing, only involving SAFE. It could also just be straight Victory Disease- years of easy gains calling down hubris. I'd like a closer pass in lore about all this.)

(EDIT2: Or the Magistracy! I don't trust those people.)


Your opinion on the Hegemonic military industrial complex is a joke and quite bad.

And what the authors put in Shattered Fortress from the creation of the V Legio to the offensive is against the strategy discussed in the Era Report and Field Manual 3145, which was exactly the opposite of what is done in Shattered Fortress.

In the Era Report the Hegemony was making a cultural annexation plan and it was only allowed to do Raids, less than 3 years later the opposite is done.

But going back to marian production, the only thing that is updated is the production of Tanks and Battlearmor, of the possible updates or local construction of mechs, aero or any other innovation, well thanks, except for the Militiamech and primitive mechs that were already built in 3077 , from there to this time bone about 60/70 years of advance nothing at all, except a Militiamech nothing else
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 23 April 2021, 11:28:47


(EDIT: re "however it was made"- I think that there is a non-zero chance that it was an intentional decision made domestically, and the purpose was to wreck some Marian institution (either the army or the Caesar) for the benefit of some other (possibly domestic) party. That would not be without precedent. Or it could have been the same thing, only involving SAFE. It could also just be straight Victory Disease- years of easy gains calling down hubris. I'd like a closer pass in lore about all this.)


[/quote])


We are talking about the SAFE that just happened to him like an elephant from the nose that Andurien and Canopus are stealing about 20 systems more or less and that they attack the Rim Commonality while they sell him that Hegemony is the "Great Danger" to beat?
The offensive against the Hegemony is simply the military adventurism of Fontaine, who is thirsty for glory easy to sell himself as an Alternate Grand Captain General, I hope the authors are more equanimous in the next book and things will be returned to him.

For Canopians and Marik prisoner shooters we have already prepared their award, it is rustic since we are peripheral and very traditional
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 23 April 2021, 12:19:49
Returning to the issue raised, I think two days ago, any hope of what Rec Guide 14 can touch us? Some new mech, some new version of a classic or miraculously some clanner mech that appears in our MUL? Will they be light mech again, will they be medium or some heavy / assault?
O Miracle among miracles an appearance of a Marian Factory making some design, even if it is not very modern (SL yes, no Clan)

Opinions?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 23 April 2021, 12:37:17
Returning to the issue raised, I think two days ago, any hope of what Rec Guide 14 can touch us? Some new mech, some new version of a classic or miraculously some clanner mech that appears in our MUL? Will they be light mech again, will they be medium or some heavy / assault?
O Miracle among miracles an appearance of a Marian Factory making some design, even if it is not very modern (SL yes, no Clan)

Opinions?

Thunderbolt, if anything. I've convinced myself that the Hegemony is making something on Pompey, and it isn't one of the lines they had at the end of the Jihad. Of course it could be something(s) already in the MUL (which already includes SL tech assault mechs).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 23 April 2021, 12:46:46
Thunderbolt, if anything. I've convinced myself that the Hegemony is making something on Pompey, and it isn't one of the lines they had at the end of the Jihad. Of course it could be something(s) already in the MUL (which already includes SL tech assault mechs).

The Pompeii Factory and any other HMI design after the Shilone and the Heavy LRM Carrier is within the mists of legend for us, Fluff always appears that they attack the place to steal mech parts there, but it is never clear that , and Marian Arms and ATC have their factories far from there, both those that we know that they do and those that do not and there are not factories that manufacture armor or internal structure either are in Addhara and Alphard
So the option of the Thunderbolt or any other mech could well be successful.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 23 April 2021, 14:37:06
Oh, those are yours? They're really fun designs, I played a few H2H's alongside a few Testudos the other day and it was great.


The 9-H, yeah, it fit well as an analog to the 9-A, so I proposed it to Herb as a way to get the Hegemony some home-grown manufacturing and he gave me the green light. I'm not sure who gave us the H2H but I'm glad to see some progress.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 23 April 2021, 15:31:56
I'm trying to imagine a camouflage pattern for the Marians.  Dunno why but I have region specific and flamboyent red or blue.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 23 April 2021, 16:38:30
I'm trying to imagine a camouflage pattern for the Marians.  Dunno why but I have region specific and flamboyent red or blue.

Well, the camouflage of the hegemonic mechs, each Region has its Legion pattern, I think there must be a camouflage pattern for the different planets and rural urban camo according to the occasion and the mission, except for characteristic units that are the Legions of the MHAF, the militias must use common camouflage cams
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 25 April 2021, 01:42:52
Well, the camouflage of the hegemonic mechs, each Region has its Legion pattern, I think there must be a camouflage pattern for the different planets and rural urban camo according to the occasion and the mission, except for characteristic units that are the Legions of the MHAF, the militias must use common camouflage cams

Hmm.  Makes sense now.  Part of it is trying to bring my creative spark back that I fried in Warhammer.  Idea was to make a fan legio VII and give it a red martian camo paint...  Then I forgot I haven't played Iron brigade in almost a decade and nobody has the pics of it so that's kinda dead.

Opportunities of course for just making an auxilia company outside the Legios or even a militia but I feel like choices would be abysmal compared to the MHs already slim picks currently.   Otherwise I'll just start with a Legio II Century, Tertia cohor and call it Ferrata until my head injury recovers.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 25 April 2021, 08:26:44
The Pompeii Factory and any other HMI design after the Shilone and the Heavy LRM Carrier is within the mists of legend for us, Fluff always appears that they attack the place to steal mech parts there, but it is never clear that , and Marian Arms and ATC have their factories far from there, both those that we know that they do and those that do not and there are not factories that manufacture armor or internal structure either are in Addhara and Alphard
So the option of the Thunderbolt or any other mech could well be successful.

One would think that with the vast amount of pillage and salvage the Hegemony has gathered in the 75 years after the Jihad, we would cease Retro manufacturing and establish a healthy industry for civilian and military manufacture of anything up to JumpShips.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 April 2021, 09:23:22
And the MUL throws us another Clanner mech, this time medium, which from what you see one finds it everywhere the Griffin IIC Standard
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 26 April 2021, 10:18:32
One would think that with the vast amount of pillage and salvage the Hegemony has gathered in the 75 years after the Jihad, we would cease Retro manufacturing and establish a healthy industry for civilian and military manufacture of anything up to JumpShips.

This is why I said the MUL, not being 'complete' for the Dark Age leaves things unfinished . . . it no longer shows them building the Centurion 9-H?  Ok, what replaced that line producing their 'most advanced' heaviest unit?  If they are not producing a qualitatively better Centurion, then IMO they would still be making the 9-H because afaik nothing in the fluff or other material says they have stopped making it or the factory wrecked.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 April 2021, 10:24:56
This is why I said the MUL, not being 'complete' for the Dark Age leaves things unfinished . . . it no longer shows them building the Centurion 9-H?  Ok, what replaced that line producing their 'most advanced' heaviest unit?  If they are not producing a qualitatively better Centurion, then IMO they would still be making the 9-H because afaik nothing in the fluff or other material says they have stopped making it or the factory wrecked.

Colt Ward is reasonable the Centurion H is no longer listed in the MUL as an option for MHAF troops and it is said in the Militiamech fluff that this is an evolution of what was learned in the Retrotech.
The Hegemony must be building something else already said here by Sartris and Greekfire, which is manufactured is what is not known so much by Marian Arms, ATC or HMI.
Expecting something with tech clanner to be manufactured in the Hegemony is illusory, the tragic thing is that nothing is said about tech inner sphere either
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 26 April 2021, 11:06:11
I think you are mis-understanding.  I am not suggesting they produce a Clan mech- and the RecGuides are not all Clan btw- but rather that if they are no longer making the Centurion 9-H they are doing something else with that line.  With that said, I do not have the new Irregulars- does it say they replaced the 9-H with the armed Indi-Mech versions?  Or that they learned technique/applications and started producing those new versions as well?

But the point was, we do not have information that the factory or line was destroyed or an exact statement that whatever mech/indimech production directly replaced the Centurion 9-H?  I am asking for clarification, b/c like I said I do not have either the new Irregulars or the other source mentioned.

I think a opportunity was missed for a hybrid Cataphract using the . . . well, not the newest but still new art to make that mini more useful.

(https://ironwindmetals.com/images/com_hikashop/upload/thumbnails/300x300c000000/btmechs/20-5120.jpg)


But a Crusader or Thunderbolt packing RLs to back up more standard weapons works . . . hmm, TDR-5S with DHS, either a HPPC or ERLL replacing the LL, FF armor and the rest of the weight shifted to RL10s would be fun.  Maybe drop the LRM15 to a 10 . . . have to check that when I get home.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 26 April 2021, 11:44:24
they're still making the centurion
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 April 2021, 11:50:21
they're still making the centurion

The H? The Retrotech? And why would it be done if the Militiatech is being made, which is more modern and capable than the Retrotech or are we talking about another type of Centurion?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 26 April 2021, 11:53:19
the 9-H
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 April 2021, 11:55:32
I think you are mis-understanding.  I am not suggesting they produce a Clan mech- and the RecGuides are not all Clan btw- but rather that if they are no longer making the Centurion 9-H they are doing something else with that line.  With that said, I do not have the new Irregulars- does it say they replaced the 9-H with the armed Indi-Mech versions?  Or that they learned technique/applications and started producing those new versions as well?

But the point was, we do not have information that the factory or line was destroyed or an exact statement that whatever mech/indimech production directly replaced the Centurion 9-H?  I am asking for clarification, b/c like I said I do not have either the new Irregulars or the other source mentioned.

I think a opportunity was missed for a hybrid Cataphract using the . . . well, not the newest but still new art to make that mini more useful.

(https://ironwindmetals.com/images/com_hikashop/upload/thumbnails/300x300c000000/btmechs/20-5120.jpg)


But a Crusader or Thunderbolt packing RLs to back up more standard weapons works . . . hmm, TDR-5S with DHS, either a HPPC or ERLL replacing the LL, FF armor and the rest of the weight shifted to RL10s would be fun.  Maybe drop the LRM15 to a 10 . . . have to check that when I get home.

We go by parts in the Fluff of the Militiamech says that using the experience gained with the Retrotech it occurred to them to start making a Militiamech version, first a version and then another two with Hermetic Cabin the last, Ferro Fiber Armor and UCA / 10, the first The version did not have an isolated cabin and that is why it could not be used in an empty environment or with non-breathable atmospheres, that is, for planetary militias they come very well but for actions outside the planet of origin it begins to get complicated at least in its first two versions, the last version the H3H is another clear song, except for some parts it is almost a standard mech
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 26 April 2021, 11:57:01
the 9-H

So the MUL still has it current for Dark Age MHAF?  I was just going by what he said.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 April 2021, 11:58:04
the 9-H


And in the name of the most sacred because of what? It is a much more backward mech than even the Militiamech, it is a waste of financial expenses, parts and others
It is a model of more than 75 years now, expired and bad
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 26 April 2021, 12:00:02

And in the name of the most sacred because of what? It is a much more backward mech than even the Militiamech, it is a waste of financial expenses, parts and others
It is a model of more than 75 years now, expired and bad

it's what they've got

So the MUL still has it current for Dark Age MHAF?  I was just going by what he said.

i see it's marked extinct for the DA. that's in error. fixed it
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 April 2021, 12:00:54
It is not listed in the list of Mechs of the Marian Hegemony in Dark Age, instead there are other Centurions

Done we have 75 years of trash mechs for much love from vintage fans, It is already very clear to me what will happen to the Hegemony based on this
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 26 April 2021, 12:04:31
it had been marked as extinct by mistake. 250,000+ data points these things happen sometimes

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 26 April 2021, 12:06:02

And in the name of the most sacred because of what? It is a much more backward mech than even the Militiamech, it is a waste of financial expenses, parts and others
It is a model of more than 75 years now, expired and bad

How?  It has a good main gun- the best one in the game- and it has a standard cockpit IIRC so those environmental concerns you expressed with the others do not apply.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 April 2021, 12:08:31
How?  It has a good main gun- the best one in the game- and it has a standard cockpit IIRC so those environmental concerns you expressed with the others do not apply.

It's still 75-year-old trash, not even with modern shielding, it's wet paper

Now close everything because we are going as we are
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 26 April 2021, 12:11:14
i've said before the marian's industrial peers are randis and the fronc reaches, not canopus or the taurians.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 April 2021, 12:12:21
I had been happy to have access to the Griffin IIC (and that because it is a general periphery), but it seems that for the Hegemony the order is the Vintage

Fronc and Randis have been building introductory mech and SL Tech for quite some time.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 26 April 2021, 12:59:31
i've said before the marian's industrial peers are randis and the fronc reaches, not canopus or the taurians.

Thing that, to me at least, makes no sense. Randis is a one world faction, and the Fronc is way less industrilized than the Hegemony, that is a faction that have been doing vehicles and asf with fusion tech, and have show the capacity to create AIV artillery and FF armor.

Its the MH at the same industrial level of the TC or the MoC? I seriously doubt it. The first have it for centuries, the second is having about 80 years of continuous capellan investment on theirs. But its a weird thing that the Hegemony is the industrial equivalent of Randis or the Fronc.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 26 April 2021, 13:02:43
not my job or interest to care. i'm just telling you what the list says
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 26 April 2021, 13:05:18
Consider me happy. A Hegemony with a unique tech base is far preferable to a Hegemony with an advanced yet boring tech base.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 26 April 2021, 13:17:53
not my job or interest to care. i'm just telling you what the list says

That doesn't sound indifferent. 

Consider me happy. A Hegemony with a unique tech base is far preferable to a Hegemony with an advanced yet boring tech base.

I agree, I just wish the writing had more concise detail as to where that advancement is going.  Randis got upgraded through trading with the Filtvelt and Calderon Protectorate, Fronc had to pick up the pieces and went into overdrive so they didn't lose their military industry or capacity to arm itself.  That's like, 4 and 8 mechs right there from That tech base.

Marians are kind of stuck in between vintage, with rockets, and a growing smaller unit base that everyone wants.  I can totally see trade deals to the Lyrans/Timbuktu and trying to get more deals with the Taurians now.  Like for better autocannons.  At the least most of our rocket variant mechs can probably be produced locally too.

Or the Sea Fox ice cream truck arrives and we can get some goodies from them.  That seems to be a writers favorite currently for IlClan if the Recguide AMA is to be believed.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 26 April 2021, 13:19:51
Consider me happy. A Hegemony with a unique tech base is far preferable to a Hegemony with an advanced yet boring tech base.

Weirdo, i know that you like primitive tech, and i like the tech myself. But saying that is that you are happy that you can make a Mark-1 tank while everyone else around you is running in T-72s, MA1As and Leopard IIIs.

I can fully understand Adacas. These Retrotech/Militia Centurions are good for milicia or pondunk planets lost in the Periphery? Of course! Add a Scorpion tank, some technicals and you have the basis of a fun game. But are those mechs adecuate for one of the Marian Legions in 3150? The time of everyone running in one-armed construction mechs with a MG is long past. Especially when you see all other faction using from SW tech to mixed Clantech units.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 April 2021, 13:20:15
Consider me happy. A Hegemony with a unique tech base is far preferable to a Hegemony with an advanced yet boring tech base.

When they destroy us and push back the borders 3025 surely that vintage technological base will make you very happy

You will be a member of a puppet and museum faction
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 26 April 2021, 13:22:16
not my job or interest to care. i'm just telling you what the list says

Sorry Sartris, and i hope you dont get offended, but that sounded like the answer a bureaucrat gives to you when he is far too gone into his job. And trust me, i work in a bureaucracy, i see it almost all the time.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 April 2021, 13:23:11
That doesn't sound indifferent. 

I agree, I just wish the writing had more concise detail as to where that advancement is going.  Randis got upgraded through trading with the Filtvelt and Calderon Protectorate, Fronc had to pick up the pieces and went into overdrive so they didn't lose their military industry or capacity to arm itself.  That's like, 4 and 8 mechs right there from That tech base.

Marians are kind of stuck in between vintage, with rockets, and a growing smaller unit base that everyone wants.  I can totally see trade deals to the Lyrans/Timbuktu and trying to get more deals with the Taurians now.  Like for better autocannons.  At the least most of our rocket variant mechs can probably be produced locally too.

Or the Sea Fox ice cream truck arrives and we can get some goodies from them.  That seems to be a writers favorite currently for IlClan if the Recguide AMA is to be believed.

The Griffin IIC is a sample of the fruit of the Ice Cream Truck of the Sea Fox or the Salvage for battles


Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sartris on 26 April 2021, 13:36:18
That doesn't sound indifferent. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sorry Sartris, and i hope you dont get offended, but that sounded like the answer a bureaucrat gives to you when he is far too gone into his job. And trust me, i work in a bureaucracy, i see it almost all the time.

*snort*

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 26 April 2021, 13:47:34
Weirdo, i know that you like primitive tech, and i like the tech myself. But saying that is that you are happy that you can make a Mark-1 tank while everyone else around you is running in T-72s, MA1As and Leopard IIIs.

The analogy doesn't work, because unlike the Mark I, the Militia Centurions actually *can* kill modern designs, even if they have difficulty doing so. At the least, the odds against them are nowhere near as astronomical as with the tanks you mention. If the odds really were that bad, their BV would be far lower.

When they destroy us and push back the borders 3025 surely that vintage technological base will make you very happy

You will be a member of a puppet and museum faction

You keep assuming this will happen, forgetting that the Marian Hegemony is a fictional empire in a fictional setting, controlled by writers and line developers. It doesn't matter whatsoever how primitive their army is, the ONLY way for the Hegemony to be destroyed is for those writers to actively step in and publish "And then they died." If the writers don't willingly and actively do that, then the Marian nation will live on, no matter how advanced its armies.

And since the Hegemony is not actually the basis for anyone's lives and livelihood but instead is the basis for the entertainment of some gamers, then it is definitely better to die interestingly then live monotonously.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 26 April 2021, 14:06:29
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

*snort*

Cool.

The analogy doesn't work, because unlike the Mark I, the Militia Centurions actually *can* kill modern designs, even if they have difficulty doing so. At the least, the odds against them are nowhere near as astronomical as with the tanks you mention. If the odds really were that bad, their BV would be far lower.

You keep assuming this will happen, forgetting that the Marian Hegemony is a fictional empire in a fictional setting, controlled by writers and line developers. It doesn't matter whatsoever how primitive their army is, the ONLY way for the Hegemony to be destroyed is for those writers to actively step in and publish "And then they died." If the writers don't willingly and actively do that, then the Marian nation will live on, no matter how advanced its armies.

And since the Hegemony is not actually the basis for anyone's lives and livelihood but instead is the basis for the entertainment of some gamers, then it is definitely better to die interestingly then live monotonously.

Abstract number on board doesn't bode well for peoples interests.  The militia mech isn't supposed to be a frontline mech.  People want more frontline stuff for a game that makes most of its money off selling mech minis.  Want to know what could sell more Marians to people?  Better stuff.  If not new tech for obvious lore tropes, then some modernization packages for old rocket variants.  I'd happily help more IWM fan funding for new Marian designs.

Secondly, turning into Squats will just piss off fans for the sake of plot contrivance.  We already had that numerous times just trying to rush the ending of the Dark Ages.  I'm not in favor of dying pathetically to make a faction look good in a site note, and I think it is a waste of writing space.  There's a wrong way to go forward and a wrong way to do end it, and it's actually a good thing when you choose neither believe it or not.  Sitting by for a few books isn't a bad thing, someone might get a use later.  Or, if you're that bored, pick up another faction on the side.

On the flip side, nobody should be getting axed after HotW according to the AMA.  I don't know if that was for major (IE: IS and Clans) after RotS got Squated but it's good to know the writers aren't overtly trying to kill everyone off.  Now, that doesn't mean we won't get screwed like the Deep periphery factions getting conquered like the Goliath Scorpions for the sake of filler, but at least we're not as screwed as three hamfisted side notes made it out to be.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 26 April 2021, 14:10:28
*snort*

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hooTQRosJxs/Uh-T5oH23zI/AAAAAAAAAIU/TDi6o6o_qMA/s1600/satiriconElburocrata.jpg)

 ;D
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 26 April 2021, 15:22:44
Its the MH at the same industrial level of the TC or the MoC? I seriously doubt it. The first have it for centuries, the second is having about 80 years of continuous capellan investment on theirs. But its a weird thing that the Hegemony is the industrial equivalent of Randis or the Fronc.

Fronc was getting Trinity Alliance development and sits at the crossroads of CC/TC&CP/MoC/FS . . . they should be a great crossroads trading station.

Randis got Clan ex-pats, and IIRC my stellar cartography has the FS, DC & OA as neighbors with Filtvelt added later.  Both are also located in places the Star League used to haunt.

The Hegemony has none of that since they ate their neighbors and the League proto-states kept them at arms length.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 April 2021, 15:45:06
Fronc was getting Trinity Alliance development and sits at the crossroads of CC/TC&CP/MoC/FS . . . they should be a great crossroads trading station.

Randis got Clan ex-pats, and IIRC my stellar cartography has the FS, DC & OA as neighbors with Filtvelt added later.  Both are also located in places the Star League used to haunt.

The Hegemony has none of that since they ate their neighbors and the League proto-states kept them at arms length.

If we are guided by the last Objective Raids Periphery, Fronc used to make his tank factories, some reconverted Tractor factories and the same factory to make the Primitive Mechs and later those of Tech Introductory and more modern, nowhere does it say that the Trinity The Alliance has given them nothing but the opposite, they don't use any Star League facilities either, just towards the time of the consolidation of the Republic they helped them to terraform some planets and there was some transfer of tech but from there to say they had one " Factory "and Advanced Tech is a blatant lie
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 26 April 2021, 16:12:29
Detroit
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 26 April 2021, 16:17:16
Fronc was getting Trinity Alliance development and sits at the crossroads of CC/TC&CP/MoC/FS . . . they should be a great crossroads trading station.

And? Outside a couple of old abandone worlds, Fronc was made of newly colonized world. Their main industrial world (that was previously inhabitated) was Detroit, and was quickly nabbed by the MoC, and later the CC. What little industry they have is in Fronc and Rockwellan, and IIRC, the only help they got later was from the RoTS, alongside the Calderon Protectorade (that was in FM:3085 IIRC).

Randis got Clan ex-pats, and IIRC my stellar cartography has the FS, DC & OA as neighbors with Filtvelt added later.  Both are also located in places the Star League used to haunt.

Warrior clan ex-pats, not techs as far we know. And by "close", their ownly neignbors is the CP. Tortuga is a bit farther, and even farther is the FS, alongside with Filvet. DC and the OWA are WAY far from them. Randis is in the 5 o´clock psition, OWA and the DC are about 2-3 o´clock. And about the SL prescence there, we know of a SL depot in a planet near Froc, and that comes from a videogame. Closest SL prescence near Randis were some astronomical observation post way "east" of Tortutga.
Quote


The Hegemony has none of that since they ate their neighbors and the League proto-states kept them at arms length.

Both Lothario and Illyria had little in tech and/or industry. In any case, the proximity to the FWL (and then former FWL, now nuFWL) would have been a bloom for the Marian Hegemony. The Fulcrum deal between ATC and Kali-Yama is an example of that (tech transference in exchange of manpower for production, more or less the clasical chinese model).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 26 April 2021, 16:21:21
Detroit


Sorry for busting your bubble, but Detroit is not a Fronc plannet since the mid-60´s when the factory there was finished and the Canopians said "Mine!", with a formal annexation in 3067. Also, its production went to MoC and TC. That, and a lot of similar reasons, were te initial arguments for Fronc´s  independance.

PLease, check FM:P, FM:U, HB:MPS, Objectives: Periphery, Masters&Minions, the last Jihad book and FM:3085 to have a really good vision of the place
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 April 2021, 16:54:41
The eagerness to minimize the Hegemonic industry on the part of some is already shocking enough.

The Fronc factories are in Fronc and Rockwallman, I think it's called the planet, but neither was the headquarters nor the colony of the SL were empty worlds at the time of colonization.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 26 April 2021, 18:38:45
I know when Detroit was lost, and the canon hints at how/why . . . but it was outside capital, tech, and transfers that got it back into operation; those happened under the regional control.  And it is still in proximity to the rest of the Reaches.

Adacas, it is just that the regional astrography does not favor any sort of rapid development- it will be a long slogging grind . . . and you see that with the other Centurions from Irregulars.  Instead of having a spike, they have gone for a broad base approach that will get everything rising along the same levels- it avoids the Detroit temptation for a neighbor.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 26 April 2021, 18:45:52
What the Hegemony industrial sector is, is also why I like it. It punches above its weight and has a way of turning lead into gold, or rather fuel cells and lesser-tier components into better ones. It equips itself with sophisticatedly undemanding gear to manufacture that is none-the-less acceptable en masse, and sells the surplus. What they need for optimal performance that they don't obtain natively is obtained in part from that (they also raid a lot, but this is also synergy, stemming from their outsized military). It's good to see, and gives a noteworthy result.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 26 April 2021, 19:45:49
And? Outside a couple of old abandone worlds, Fronc was made of newly colonized world. Their main industrial world (that was previously inhabitated) was Detroit, and was quickly nabbed by the MoC, and later the CC. What little industry they have is in Fronc and Rockwellan, and IIRC, the only help they got later was from the RoTS, alongside the Calderon Protectorade (that was in FM:3085 IIRC).

Warrior clan ex-pats, not techs as far we know. And by "close", their ownly neignbors is the CP. Tortuga is a bit farther, and even farther is the FS, alongside with Filvet. DC and the OWA are WAY far from them. Randis is in the 5 o´clock psition, OWA and the DC are about 2-3 o´clock. And about the SL prescence there, we know of a SL depot in a planet near Froc, and that comes from a videogame. Closest SL prescence near Randis were some astronomical observation post way "east" of Tortutga.
Both Lothario and Illyria had little in tech and/or industry. In any case, the proximity to the FWL (and then former FWL, now nuFWL) would have been a bloom for the Marian Hegemony. The Fulcrum deal between ATC and Kali-Yama is an example of that (tech transference in exchange of manpower for production, more or less the clasical chinese model).

They had a new plant capable of light mechs by 3105 and it doesn't specify the other by fm3145.  They are actively trading military gear with the Capellans now too besides Filtvelt and Fedsuns.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 April 2021, 20:43:26
What the Hegemony industrial sector is, is also why I like it. It punches above its weight and has a way of turning lead into gold, or rather fuel cells and lesser-tier components into better ones. It equips itself with sophisticatedly undemanding gear to manufacture that is none-the-less acceptable en masse, and sells the surplus. What they need for optimal performance that they don't obtain natively is obtained in part from that (they also raid a lot, but this is also synergy, stemming from their outsized military). It's good to see, and gives a noteworthy result.

Clearly you like a faction with nothing but Tanks, and Primitive Mech great for you, we would want a nation that progresses along with the entire periphery and the IS, but you know how it is condemned to be a traveling museum for the taste of some. few.
The primitives and Rocket Launchers had their reason for being about 60/80 years of play, everyone advanced, the primitives are already the least in the different armies, in the Hegemony they are not
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 26 April 2021, 20:45:58
I know when Detroit was lost, and the canon hints at how/why . . . but it was outside capital, tech, and transfers that got it back into operation; those happened under the regional control.  And it is still in proximity to the rest of the Reaches.

Adacas, it is just that the regional astrography does not favor any sort of rapid development- it will be a long slogging grind . . . and you see that with the other Centurions from Irregulars.  Instead of having a spike, they have gone for a broad base approach that will get everything rising along the same levels- it avoids the Detroit temptation for a neighbor.

Detroit is Capella and I highly doubt that it will do anything to Fronc Reaches, idem Canopus

If it is by regional or astronavigation disposition, nobody could develop anything in the periphery
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 26 April 2021, 21:00:38
Clearly you like a faction with nothing but Tanks, and Primitive Mech great for you, we would want a nation that progresses along with the entire periphery and the IS, but you know how it is condemned to be a traveling museum for the taste of some. few.
The primitives and Rocket Launchers had their reason for being about 60/80 years of play, everyone advanced, the primitives are already the least in the different armies, in the Hegemony they are not

This is something that I find mind-boggling that it can be poorly understood. The Marians preferentially make tanks, battlearmor, and  bottom-market mechs. They field more than that. They've turned it into a strength, and a point of economic sophistication. It gets them a larger and stronger military than they would otherwise have. It seems as if you will settle for nothing less than an autarky strong in itself; what is it that you like about the Marians then?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 26 April 2021, 21:17:38
This is something that I find mind-boggling that it can be poorly understood. The Marians preferentially make tanks, battlearmor, and  bottom-market mechs. They field more than that. They've turned it into a strength, and a point of economic sophistication. It gets them a larger and stronger military than they would otherwise have. It seems as if you will settle for nothing less than an autarky strong in itself; what is it that you like about the Marians then?

I've heard this argument about Loyalists and Chaos Marines whenever the Imperials got shiny old new tech from main or forge world listings and people consistently got angry they didn't make Chaos versions for the sake of lore cohesion instead of variety.

It's kind of the same with the Marians, it's great they advanced on tanks and battle armor, but how many people actively focus on anything that isn't mechs first?  Every starter set and video game in the franchise focuses on mechs lol.  There's a reason why the Ravens are starting to focus less on aero power, and it's not just plot.

Anyway that's a loaded question asking why anyone likes a faction.  It'd be as redundant as asking why you like Tamarind compared to the Clan Protectorate or independents.  People just do, this isn't 40k with specialized army rules where we all minmax the same things for tourney meta.  Maybe some people just like the concept of Space Rome in banjo land.  Maybe they like your concept of infantry and mixed arms.  Maybe they just like being an underdog who has its own classical interpretation of unit size and a hilarious vintage meme.

Speaking of memes, I know this setting is affectionately full of em, but vintage might not be a great idea going forward in Ilclan unless the Marians really are going to be dead end like people say on the Discord like the space Spanish and Amazigh were before Goliath Scorpions.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 26 April 2021, 21:24:26
The Marians preferentially make tanks, battlearmor, and  bottom-market mechs.

Wat? They make vehicles because is what they could at the time. BAs would be way modern (and welcome) addition to the Legion, but outside the beggining to until about early Jihad, after that you have pure mechs Legions, with one or two vehicle/BA/infantry auxilia.

You can argue that at the time of FM:P the least favoured Legions had to mix mechs, vehicles and infantry, but if you check the recent FM (3145), the whole subsidiary units got relegated to the Auxilias.

I can understand the MIlitia/retrotech Centurion serving in that, Militias. But its definitly NOT a frontline mech. And the Legios need that, frontline mechs, modern mech.

As i always read when someone ask the Devs about buffing the vehicles or infantry, they answer "The game is called Battletech for a reason, because of the Battlemech." The other units are accesory at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 26 April 2021, 21:38:22
I've heard this argument about Loyalists and Chaos Marines whenever the Imperials got shiny old new tech from main or forge world listings and people consistently got angry they didn't make Chaos versions for the sake of lore cohesion instead of variety.

It's kind of the same with the Marians, it's great they advanced on tanks and battle armor, but how many people actively focus on anything that isn't mechs first?  Every starter set and video game in the franchise focuses on mechs lol.  There's a reason why the Ravens are starting to focus less on aero power, and it's not just plot.

Anyway that's a loaded question asking why anyone likes a faction.  It'd be as redundant as asking why you like Tamarind compared to the Clan Protectorate or independents.  People just do, this isn't 40k with specialized army rules where we all minmax the same things for tourney meta.  Maybe some people just like the concept of Space Rome in banjo land.  Maybe they like your concept of infantry and mixed arms.  Maybe they just like being an underdog who has its own classical interpretation of unit size and a hilarious vintage meme.

Speaking of memes, I know this setting is affectionately full of em, but vintage might not be a great idea going forward in Ilclan unless the Marians really are going to be dead end like people say on the Discord like the space Spanish and Amazigh were before Goliath Scorpions.

Short answer, I like Tamarind's problems. And if people don't actually like a source of a faction's strength and want a different one, the question bears raising. And once again I'm boggling that people don't see it's the tanks and battlearmor that gets the Hegemony its mechs now. The complaint that its "autarky" or nothing with some people is very considered. It is as if no one seems to understand my point well enough to even disagree with it; you're all obsessed with the Hegemony making Ravagers, Marauder-BAs, and Centurion retrotech/militiamechs meaning that is what you should be playing. That's the military industrial complex. Every single one of those items is sold for export, to significant extent. It is a part of the process that lets the Marians reliably roll +6 on the Periphery General battlemech RAT (excepting III Legio, who does that on the FWL RAT as well). This is a neat thing.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 26 April 2021, 21:55:26
That's an optional rule that probably won't make a run past the next sourcebook though.  It certainly didn't carry any weight in SF.  Kind of like the third and sixth morale problems should improve over years and not stay the same unless the Marian's officer pool took a giant dump instead of improving like it said.

Issue is we do understand your point; most of us don't want to be just using acquisitions or relying on export novelty in space economics.  That is the point of evolving a faction for 75 years, improve domestic use as well as commercial exports.  The benefits of mech production locally outweigh the costs of upkeep and making the planet a target. 

Secondly, focusing on BA and tank production would carry over into military focus.  We would be combined arms specialists over time if we're not just using rocket bois, but we're not.  Little attention to none was put into making that a focus to my knowledge, nor has it been used to benefit us politically in relations to people like the Taurians, Lyrans, and Capellans who could supply us with the tech and technicians to make improvements in BA and mech weaponry to sell back to them and equip our own forces.  Supply logistics also needs to be rationale as to the state of the... Sphere.  I have to stop myself from saying Sector or galaxy.

Although it's also known now from the latest AMA that the rest of the periphery isn't going to advance past what they can acquire from the IS/Foxes into Ilclan so... I guess the argument is a moot one.

Actually, that brings up a good question about acquisition.  Do Hegemony mechwarriors personally own their mechs or does the state military own them?  Does that mean richer nobles get the bilet for newer stuff or is that purely on a primary cohor, main Legio basis?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Geont on 27 April 2021, 00:26:52
I have looked at what Centurions has MH access to on MUL (-Ar, -D3, -D3D). Is it possible that they switched production of -H to one of these they have access to? I don't have a clue who produces them to get them on Periphery general.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 27 April 2021, 03:05:17
Detroit is Capella and I highly doubt that it will do anything to Fronc Reaches, idem Canopus

If it is by regional or astronavigation disposition, nobody could develop anything in the periphery

The Hegemony is capable of mass producing:
1) advanced missile artillery
2) the industrial processes for Ferro-Fibrous Armor
3) the technologies for Heavy and Assault BA
4) the mechanisms and advanced ammunition for Ultra and LBX Autocannons
5) standard technology 65-ton ASFs during the Jihad(after the WoB took out the Hegemony's industrial core on Alphard)
6) Starting in 3071, Goliath -6H refits that show the Hegemony can build large Light Fusion Engines, Heavy PPCs, CASE and B-Pods

This is compelling evidence against the Hegemony's supposed "primitiveness". Yet there are people who keep saying the Hegemony should remain a "unique" backward RL-happy faction.

The Hegemony, while industrially definitely not on par with the TC and MoC, should at least be producing standard or Jihad-tech Mechs by the Dark Age.

It has been noted that ASFs are more advanced and much harder to manufacture than BattleMechs(Total Warfare), yet HMI(not the top manufacturer in the Hegemony and approaching bankruptcy at that time) was able to license the Shilone in 3074, build the necessary industry and produce at least a score of them by 3077. If the Hegemony is so primitive, how did HMI manage this impressive achievement yet the Hegemony is getting trash like Retro or MilitiaMechs in 3145?

The Goliath -6H is another example. The Hegemony could produce the refit kits and the Mech is "found most frequently in Hegemony forces"(TRO3085), which means the Hegemony was still technologically holding its own during the Jihad till 3085. This would have been a good start towards building at least a good light or medium Mech by 3090 or 3130(worst-case assumption).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 27 April 2021, 10:09:38
Your #6 is off- what is shows, since they do not list producing it just like they do not build Marauder H- is that they can SOURCE LFE, CASE, and B-Pods.  MAYBE they build HPPCs since they have access to the Centurion 9Ar which is a refit program.  Producing 'refit kits' just means you can assemble the parts from somewhere or build them, bundle them with instructions, and send them out.

Further, as we do not get a break down of that ASF, they could import a lot of those parts to assemble in the MH from Westover.  By Dark Age sources they have diplomatic ties with that former League world and are somewhat involved.  The same company has locations on Westover, Andurien, and Alphard.

The RLs for the MHAF is a meme, but appropriate . . . I like RLs for using up odd half tons and crit soaking on designs.  They are also a very low logistics load considering they can be cranked out by simple machine shops.  There is nothing wrong with the Hegemony building hybrid designs- std or FF armor, primitive engine, std cockpit, and whatever weapons.  If the Hegemony can build 100 primitive engines or 20 standard engines, build the primitive fusion engines to swell the Legion's ranks.  Consider the autocannon situation . . . the Hegemony was not producing a AC/10 locally when they designed and built the Gladius (42)- it was imported from the TC (FASAnomics).  When that Pontiac gun was no longer exported by the TC due to Hegemony military adventurism (mid-50s?) it would seem that was a impetus to start building their own . . . by Jihad/3070s they were producing the LB-10X (CN9-H) and a LAC/5 (Gladius II).  So it took them at least 20 years to develop something beyond the standard autocannon and during that time they were getting assistance in their tech development from arguably one of the most advanced factions in the BTU.

The strategic plan to sell low quality equipment to local polities while importing advanced components, IS/merc salvage, and building their own local advanced weapons is a good plan that can work for them.  First, they are building client states around them that will not be a threat- they are the source for parts and ammo, displease or try to become our rival and you are cut off.  Second, the intake of cash from selling equipment lets them run larger orders (economy of scale) while keeping the defense industries operating at full which retains a trained workforce that will also allow expansion & improvement- as I said earlier they are building a broad base.  Third, besides the trade benefit supporting their defense industry, it also provides revenue for the government to purchase the more advanced components they use to keep a local qualitative edge.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 27 April 2021, 10:14:26
This is something that I find mind-boggling that it can be poorly understood. The Marians preferentially make tanks, battlearmor, and  bottom-market mechs. They field more than that. They've turned it into a strength, and a point of economic sophistication. It gets them a larger and stronger military than they would otherwise have. It seems as if you will settle for nothing less than an autarky strong in itself; what is it that you like about the Marians then?

This where it says that the Marians prioritize the production of tanks and BA?
From the reign of Julius onwards, each fragment of Fluff tells you that the Hegemony is looking with great investment for the production of modern Battlemechs.
The Rocket Launchers Battlemechs were the result of the moment, the need to expand and strengthen the Legios at a time when we had kicked off WoB as a provider and went to ours
The Primitives are the same fruit of their time of need for Jihad, but to continue with it 75 years after that period is insulting when practically no other state has primitives in their Line troops, I am not talking about militias.

Wanting to persevere in a strategic line of continuing to produce primitives and put them in the line units is suicidal and criminal for any faction, and wanting to continue making the Hegemony of the RL and the Primitives is wanting the faction to die, mutilated at will by its neighbors. .

But there are some who, in view of a time-honored and time-fixed version, want that and it seems good to die in their "style", I prefer my faction alive, thriving and advancing not to be the Circus of Antiquities to laugh at the pathetic who are the neighbors.

Staying stagnant is dying, moving forward and modernizing is living and prospering
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 27 April 2021, 10:17:32
I have looked at what Centurions has MH access to on MUL (-Ar, -D3, -D3D). Is it possible that they switched production of -H to one of these they have access to? I don't have a clue who produces them to get them on Periphery general.

Excellent question, the AR is a Field Refit, I think that for the others a Factory is already needed, although the AR version changes a lot from the Centurion we know to the 3050.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 27 April 2021, 10:29:52
Well, exactly how long did it take for the mech plants to recover from neutron bombing on Alphard?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 27 April 2021, 10:45:30
Well, exactly how long did it take for the mech plants to recover from neutron bombing on Alphard?

Quote
INDUSTRIAL UPDATE
Spared from the neutron bombs that took out the Caesar and most of the national leadership, the factories on Nova Roma continued production without interruption.

M&M talks about destroyed civilian industry in the neutron bomb attack, but the military factories were undamaged apparently.

Quote
Industrialization has grown steadily in the last forty years, and the addition of Lothian mineral resources have helped, but manufacturing growth took a massive hit in 3071 when Word of Blake launched a devastating terrorist attack against Nova Roma, the planet’s capital and largest city. Not only were factories destroyed, but the lethal radiation from the multiple neutron bomb detonations killed the people that worked in the manufacturing plants and the consumers who bought the goods they produced.

I think what harmed the most in the neutron bombs attack was not the damage to the capitol and civilian industry, but the loss of financial and tax records, and the almost entire leadership, universitiy and military academies that wiped out the local Intelligentsia.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 27 April 2021, 10:47:34
a game that makes most of its money off selling mech minis.

Oh please do offer some evidence for this stunning assertion.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 27 April 2021, 10:50:54
M&M talks about destroyed civilian industry in the neutron bomb attack, but the military factories were undamaged apparently.

I think what harmed the most in the neutron bombs attack was not the damage to the capitol and civilian industry, but the loss of financial and tax records, and the almost entire leadership, universitiy and military academies that wiped out the local Intelligentsia.

Which the casualties from the bomb do not include HMI personnel for example or that it has killed all the personnel of the Alphard factories either, if it affected economically and killed Julius and a good part of the central government and teachers of Collegium Bellorum, Cassius He concentrated the investment on putting the Bellorum on its feet but around the time that the Addhara Mech / Tank Factory was built by the ATC he got away with his fight with his aunt
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 27 April 2021, 10:52:57
Also, the Goliath -6H refit pack is a curious case. Just by checking the brand name of the components (both in the Milispecs and TRO:3085) we see (probably) Lyran LFE, B-Pods, armor w/CASE, C&CS and T&TS, Marik HPPC, and Capellan MG arrays, with light versions of locally produced MG.

That refit pack looks like almost made in its 75% by Defiance!
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 27 April 2021, 11:19:01
Also, the Goliath -6H refit pack is a curious case. Just by checking the brand name of the components (both in the Milispecs and TRO:3085) we see (probably) Lyran LFE, B-Pods, armor w/CASE, C&CS and T&TS, Marik HPPC, and Capellan MG arrays, with light versions of locally produced MG.

That refit pack looks like almost made in its 75% by Defiance!

The... Lyran arms manufacturer Defiance?  Exactly how much of a facility do you need to convert mechs with refit kits?  Doesn't sound as simple  like putting reactive armor packages on old tanks during modernization. 

How many of the old refit kits are we still manufacturing?

M&M talks about destroyed civilian industry in the neutron bomb attack, but the military factories were undamaged apparently.

I think what harmed the most in the neutron bombs attack was not the damage to the capitol and civilian industry, but the loss of financial and tax records, and the almost entire leadership, universitiy and military academies that wiped out the local Intelligentsia.

Big durp moment but thanks.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 27 April 2021, 12:38:44
Let's get back to the topic of the Legions as they actually are, instead of what a couple folks want them to be.

I'm considering picking up some Small Craft for my Marian forces. Does anyone here have any experience in using shuttles and infantry to make light orbital assault forces with Legion equipment, and if so, what worked well?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 27 April 2021, 12:58:58
Let's get back to the topic of the Legions as they actually are, instead of what a couple folks want them to be.

I'm considering picking up some Small Craft for my Marian forces. Does anyone here have any experience in using shuttles and infantry to make light orbital assault forces with Legion equipment, and if so, what worked well?

Your meme, your call.

I'd very much like to know other people's Marian lists so I can get reference points for my force.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 27 April 2021, 13:27:32
I'm considering picking up some Small Craft for my Marian forces. Does anyone here have any experience in using shuttles and infantry to make light orbital assault forces with Legion equipment, and if so, what worked well?

Have little to no experience with Aerospace rues, but acording to MUL the MH have access to the NL-42 (2 BA points/Squads), Ares VIII and IX (about 3tn of cargo) and the Landing Crafts (about 30tn of cargo).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 27 April 2021, 13:28:44
Your meme, your call.

I'd very much like to know other people's Marian lists so I can get reference points for my force.

The Lists are varied depending on the occasion if you are going to fight against a unit of mechs is one thing, the time also influences, I usually choose what I think of the MUL and if it seems to me I add some more mech that I think for example my command century has a Rampage as a command mech and a couple of custom phoenixes as part of it (phoenix modernized no RL or primitives)
If it is an urban combat action, I can mix more with Battlearmour and a tank maniple.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 27 April 2021, 14:43:07
M&M talks about destroyed civilian industry in the neutron bomb attack, but the military factories were undamaged apparently.

I think what harmed the most in the neutron bombs attack was not the damage to the capitol and civilian industry, but the loss of financial and tax records, and the almost entire leadership, universitiy and military academies that wiped out the local Intelligentsia.

Neutron bombs were a Cold War plan to kill people but leave facilities- primarily roads and airbases intact . . . so yeah, you kill of the workers, engineers, and scientists but the equipment is undamaged except for being dangerous until the specific type radiation clears.


What about the Condotierre in Dark Age?  It was open market though it would be more for escort or a boarding squad.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 27 April 2021, 14:56:59
The problem with the question is that you obviously want a Caerleon (available to mercs), and my experience with throwing BA out of Caerleons onto an empty map has been bad.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 27 April 2021, 16:20:54
Honestly, my main go-to for this role is the Mk. VII, being extremely cheap.

What do you mean by an empty map?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 27 April 2021, 17:54:13
I hope that soon the Hegemony will have one or two Dentato, Ligustinus or Capitoline we need them and maybe a Scipio
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 27 April 2021, 18:11:33
Not familiar with those units. What book are they in?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 27 April 2021, 18:19:44
With Scipio I think he might be referring to good generals.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 27 April 2021, 18:21:46
Not familiar with those units. What book are they in?

Roman legionaries of old times, not Generals or just soldiers but who were very capable of turning a fight themselves to prove their worth.

The decorations won by Dentato, who received that nickname due to his ferocity (they said he was born with teeth), were collected by Pliny: «He won twenty-six crowns, including fourteen civic, eight gold, three murals and one obsidional, 160 bracelets of gold, 18 pure spears and 25 garlands ».

Lucio Sicio Dentato (to whom more than a hundred combats and three hundred casualties are attributed in the 5th century BC) obtained a total of 14. «Plinio corroborates that he suffered 45 scars, and all of them on the front of his body

Although we would also need an Agrippa or a Marco Terencio Varrón, great naval commanders, some Patricio and another who did not.

More Info Here

https://www.abc.es/historia/abci-experto-analiza-abc-gran-misterio-legiones-romanas-quien-soldado-mas-letal-202101121754_noticia.html
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 27 April 2021, 21:07:56
Pliny the Elder or the younger?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 27 April 2021, 21:21:00
Neutron bombs were a Cold War plan to kill people but leave facilities- primarily roads and airbases intact . . . so yeah, you kill of the workers, engineers, and scientists but the equipment is undamaged except for being dangerous until the specific type radiation clears.

Quote
Strategic exchanges of germanium for neutron-absorbing materials like borates have aided the salvage efforts of Nova Roma. Though radiation cleanup proceeds, it will still be years before the edges of Nova Roma can be inhabited again.
- FM:3085.

What about the Condotierre in Dark Age?  It was open market though it would be more for escort or a boarding squad.

Its a nice escort, and the MH have access to it, but sadly only have 1tn cargo space.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 27 April 2021, 22:22:36
Yeah, I knew neutrons were proposed for different uses strategically and tactically in WWIII but I knew some of the duration depended on the altitude detonated and other factors.

Reason I mentioned the Condo is that if you were grouping them in 5 . . . 4 transport small craft & 1 gunship escort would be a good tactical group if you can make sure the full ground component can be deployed.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 27 April 2021, 22:55:54
What's a good transport for Marauder BAs?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Sharpnel on 27 April 2021, 23:31:21
Maxim BA Transport?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 28 April 2021, 00:07:43
What's a good transport for Marauder BAs?

Anything fast with a ferro hull?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 28 April 2021, 01:26:42
Almost literally anything will do the job, so look more at guns. You want something with either as little gun as possible and a lot of speed so that it can quickly deploy the Mads for cheap, allowing you to afford more Mads in your force...or something that's slower that can carry them when needed, but is more focused on fighting alongside the suits once they are deployed. As with most infantry units, Marauders are lacking in range and concentrated single-slug punch, so pairing them with a machine carrying PPCs and big autocannons or the occasional Gauss will allow you to open big holes that the suits can exploit once they're in firing range. Things that put said big guns in the arms or centerline are better, because the guns aren't covered up while the suits are mounted. Consider things like Panthers, Enforcers, Warhammers, and, well, Marauders. I like Cataphracts for my VI Legio groups, though their ranged power is partially cut when the torso cannon is covered.

Wether fast or slow, try to use units whose base Walk/Cruise is an even number. So long as it's not a 10/15, the -1 MP for carrying the battlesuits isn't likely to drop your TMM below what it would have been originally.

If you're looking at something fast to quickly deploy your Mads ASAP, consider the Heavy Hover APC. It's dirt cheap, widely available, and in addition to carrying Mads on the outside, you can also carry a powerful infantry contingent on the inside as well, such as a squad of Ravagers, or a full half-Century of heavy foot troops. Five APCs carrying stuff like that means a VERY powerful(if highly specialized) force for surprisingly low BV.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Geont on 28 April 2021, 04:27:10
Excellent question, the AR is a Field Refit, I think that for the others a Factory is already needed, although the AR version changes a lot from the Centurion we know to the 3050.

I was working with how when there is a change in the manufacturing process they very often just retool and don't create a new factory for a new process. From what I understood through this discussion the MH industry is able to create more advanced armor and some weapons that they probably could use for newer versions of Centurion. When they were able to manufacture CN9-H they should be able to step up its game to at least CN9-Ar.

Do we have information on what BattleMechs are produced on Addhara? Sarna and FM 3145 don't give any info.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 28 April 2021, 05:08:46
I was working with how when there is a change in the manufacturing process they very often just retool and don't create a new factory for a new process. From what I understood through this discussion the MH industry is able to create more advanced armor and some weapons that they probably could use for newer versions of Centurion. When they were able to manufacture CN9-H they should be able to step up its game to at least CN9-Ar.

Do we have information on what BattleMechs are produced on Addhara? Sarna and FM 3145 don't give any info.

No, but our friendly MUL rhoomba mentioned we're on manufacturing par with Randis and the Froncs.  The short answer is we have no idea but they're producing star league designs. 

Almost literally anything will do the job, so look more at guns. You want something with either as little gun as possible and a lot of speed so that it can quickly deploy the Mads for cheap, allowing you to afford more Mads in your force...or something that's slower that can carry them when needed, but is more focused on fighting alongside the suits once they are deployed. As with most infantry units, Marauders are lacking in range and concentrated single-slug punch, so pairing them with a machine carrying PPCs and big autocannons or the occasional Gauss will allow you to open big holes that the suits can exploit once they're in firing range. Things that put said big guns in the arms or centerline are better, because the guns aren't covered up while the suits are mounted. Consider things like Panthers, Enforcers, Warhammers, and, well, Marauders. I like Cataphracts for my VI Legio groups, though their ranged power is partially cut when the torso cannon is covered.

Wether fast or slow, try to use units whose base Walk/Cruise is an even number. So long as it's not a 10/15, the -1 MP for carrying the battlesuits isn't likely to drop your TMM below what it would have been originally.

If you're looking at something fast to quickly deploy your Mads ASAP, consider the Heavy Hover APC. It's dirt cheap, widely available, and in addition to carrying Mads on the outside, you can also carry a powerful infantry contingent on the inside as well, such as a squad of Ravagers, or a full half-Century of heavy foot troops. Five APCs carrying stuff like that means a VERY powerful(if highly specialized) force for surprisingly low BV.

Well now I have a lot more looking up to do.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 28 April 2021, 07:48:23
That's what I'm here for. :)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 28 April 2021, 09:37:18
So pulled out mech lab . . . and I would be excited to see a Marian Thunderbolt- give it a LFE like they get with the Goliath, DHS, and make the LL a HPPC gets you a solid trooper design.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 28 April 2021, 10:25:53
So pulled out mech lab . . . and I would be excited to see a Marian Thunderbolt- give it a LFE like they get with the Goliath, DHS, and make the LL a HPPC gets you a solid trooper design.


You already did? Look at uploading it in Fan Designs so we look at it, did you put JJ?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 28 April 2021, 10:29:39
Pliny the Elder or the younger?

I think it is Pliny the Elder, for the dates he mentions

Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 28 April 2021, 10:34:00

You already did? Look at uploading it in Fan Designs so we look at it, did you put JJ?

No JJs, it was pretty much a adjustment of the -5S.  But sure I can put it there and link to it when I get home.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 28 April 2021, 10:54:22
No JJs, it was pretty much a adjustment of the -5S.  But sure I can put it there and link to it when I get home.

I will be waiting for you, I asked about the JJs because for my mech without them unless it is an assault it seems too static, but it is a vision of mine
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 28 April 2021, 10:58:27
Further, as we do not get a break down of that ASF, they could import a lot of those parts to assemble in the MH from Westover.  By Dark Age sources they have diplomatic ties with that former League world and are somewhat involved.  The same company has locations on Westover, Andurien, and Alphard.

Granted with the refit, but it shows the Hegemony has skilled manpower able to work with advanced technology.

With the Shilone(said ASF), it was homegrown and it was done in the desperation of the Jihad. It proves that the Hegemony deserves better than primitives.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 28 April 2021, 11:15:53
I'd very much like to know other people's Marian lists so I can get reference points for my force.

Here's my full Marian collection that I'm building towards:

IV Legio

Battlemech Cohort
1st Century
   Quasit
   Quasit
   Shadow Hawk
   Griffin
   Phoenix Hawk
   
2nd Century
   Assassin
   Commando
   Wolfhound
   Stinger
   Dragon
   
3rd Century
   Dragon
   Marshall
   Hermes II
   Clint
   Cicada
   
4th Century
   Firestarter
   Brigand
   Scorpion
   Commando
   Wasp

5th Century   
   Wolverine
   Wolverine
   Thanatos
   Cadaver
   Vixen

6th Century   
   Lineholder
   Hammer
   Valkyrie
   Valkyrie
   Razorback

*Mechs are not actually assigned to certain Centuries yet, and are merely listed in no particular order.

Armor Cohort
1st Century
   Drillson
   Plainsman
   Plainsman
   Saladin
   Saladin
   
2nd Century
   Fulcrum
   Harasser
   Harasser
   J. Edgar
   J. Edgar
   
3rd Century
   Gladius
   Gladius
   Gladius
   Gladius
   Gladius
   
4th Century
   Hunter
   Ranger
   Striker
   Striker
   Hunter
   
5th Century
   Fulcrum
   Saracen
   Saracen
   Stygian
   Stygian
   
6th Century
   Swallow
   Swallow
   Pegasus
   Galleon
   Galleon

Infantry Cohort
1st Century
   IS Standard
   IS Standard
   IS Standard
   Asterion
   Asterion
   
2nd Century
   Heavy Hover APC
   Heavy Hover APC
   Heavy Hover APC
   Heavy Hover APC
   Heavy Hover APC
   
3rd Century
   Karnov Periphery
   Karnov
   Karnov
   Karnov
   Karnov
   
4th Century
   Foot Century
   
5th Century
   Jump Century
   
6th Century
   Jump Century

Air Squadron
   Thunderbird
   Thunderbird
   Lightning
   Lightning
   Shilone



VI Legio

Battlemech Cohort
1st Century
   Marauder II
   Cyclops
   Jagermech
   Cataphract
   Phoenix Hawk
   
2nd Century
   Awesome
   Cataphract
   Goliath
   Jagermech
   Centurion
   
3rd Century
   Thunderbolt
   Marauder
   Centurion
   Cataphract
   Tarantula
   
4th Century
   Catapult
   Grasshopper
   Enforcer
   Whitworth
   Whitworth
   
5th Century
   Ostroc
   Hunchback
   Centurion
   Commando
   Clint
   
6th Century
   Quickdraw
   Stinger
   Firestarter
   Assassin
   Commando


Armor Cohort
1st Century
   Behemoth
   Heavy LRM carrier
   Heavy LRM carrier
   Pike
   Pike
   
2nd Century
   Brutus
   Po
   Po
   Po
   Po
   
3rd Century
   Brutus
   Marsden II
   Marsden II
   Marsden II
   Marsden II
   
4th Century
   Hetzer
   Light SRM Carrier
   Light SRM Carrier
   Von Luckner
   Striker
   
5th Century
   Testudo
   Testudo
   Testudo
   Testudo
   Manticore
   
6th Century
   Fulcrum
   Fulcrum
   Gladius
   Gladius
   Gladius

Infantry Cohort
1st Century
   Ravager
   Ravager
   Ravager
   Ravager
   Ravager
   
2nd Century
   Heavy Tracked APC
   Heavy Tracked APC
   Heavy Tracked APC
   Heavy Tracked APC
   Heavy Tracked APC
   
3rd Century
   Marauder
   Marauder
   Marauder
   Marauder
   Marauder
   
4th Century
   Maultier
   Maultier
   Maultier
   Maultier
   Sprint
   
5th Century
   Foot Century
   
6th Century
   Tracked Mechinf Century

Air Squadron
   Sabre
   Sabre
   Shilone
   Shilone
   Shilone
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 28 April 2021, 11:41:24
There is no impediment for the Hegemony for example to do retroengineering and make Vulcan ASF or other old models
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 28 April 2021, 12:35:07
Holy crap thanks
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: DOC_Agren on 28 April 2021, 13:34:38
Let's get back to the topic of the Legions as they actually are, instead of what a couple folks want them to be.

I'm considering picking up some Small Craft for my Marian forces. Does anyone here have any experience in using shuttles and infantry to make light orbital assault forces with Legion equipment, and if so, what worked well?
I may not be an expert in Legion assets but Mark pick your # Lander makes a decent assault lander, especial if you get some that can be airdropped on targets
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 28 April 2021, 14:52:24
Weirdo look at the MUL, in the infantry part, the Hegemony has two types of troops that can be useful to you: the hegemonic version of Assault troops with Jump and already at the level of commando Halo-paratroppers and something similar
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 28 April 2021, 15:08:25
Yeah, right now I'm thinking of using a K-1, because it can neatly carry a full Maniple of jump troops and is heavily armored while still cheap, and it can also pull double duty as a mobile HQ, with the six passenger quarters given to a command officer and their immediate retinue.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 28 April 2021, 16:20:50
Yeah, right now I'm thinking of using a K-1, because it can neatly carry a full Maniple of jump troops and is heavily armored while still cheap, and it can also pull double duty as a mobile HQ, with the six passenger quarters given to a command officer and their immediate retinue.

I'm guessing you're operating with some...erm, "flexibility" in the allocation of cargo space on the K-1?

A Maniple is 50 personnel, right?  Ten 5-trooper squads of jump troops?  That'd take, IIRC, two 6-ton infantry bays which, of course, the K-1 doesn't have out the door, but technically can be crammed into the 16.5 tons of cargo.  Depending on how you're handling life support, they won't be able to be in there long, of course...

Honestly, my main go-to for this role is the Mk. VII, being extremely cheap.

What do you mean by an empty map?

This is much more of a limiting factor.  Squeezing infantry or battlearmor into Mk VIIs isn't really hard, again, depending on whether you're using just general cargo rules, at which point they're going through consumables like mad, or infantry bays, where they're going through them slightly less mad (2 days/person/ton or 20 days/person/ton, IIRC).  But for vehicles, you're limited to 31 tons total, ignoring loading and unloading time which, in either case, isn't going to be fast: you're not going to be doing unloading on the tabletop, given time to unload from cargo.

That said, looking at your other list, you could use the Mark VII to move:

Harassers
J. Edgars
Galleons
Karnovs
Heavy Hover APCs

Even some of your lighter 'Mechs, like the Brigands, Valkyries, etc. could be moved that way.  Just would take a while to unload them.

Side note, for those complaining about what the Marian Hegemony can or can't build, it could be worse: it could be Niops.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 28 April 2021, 17:52:45
When talking about shuttle transports like these, I'm assuming short flights, just orbit-to-surface or surface-to-surface only, and thus the same tonnage figures as ground APCs apply. A Century of jump troops is two sub-platoons at four tons apiece, so a Maniple comes out to four sub-platoons and exactly sixteen tons. Unless talking about specific specialized units, I've never bothered with using anything other than the genetic tonnages.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 28 April 2021, 19:22:34
Here Adacas-

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/marian-hegemony-thunderbolt/ (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/marian-hegemony-thunderbolt/)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 28 April 2021, 22:01:06
What's a good transport for Marauder BAs?

Wasps are perfect and elegant, yet they are also frankly awful in practice because they don't hold up their leg of the combined arms tripod (as battlemechs, they don't perform like battlemechs. SRM2s are too small to be useful as infernos in all situations, even. They are just battle-taxis.). All the same I love Wasps.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Walrus Gumboot on 28 April 2021, 22:06:20
Here's my full Marian collection that I'm building towards:


Well, wow.

If you've got Maraurder BA that means you are in an era where your Wolverines can be 9Ms (which makes sense, as the 9M was literally a dropship-bay customization by the anti-Blakist FWL forces during the Jihad). You probably won't feel tempted to field the only canonical Wolverine 6Ms in the the 32nd Century (although I would).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 28 April 2021, 22:20:19
Side note, for those complaining about what the Marian Hegemony can or can't build, it could be worse: it could be Niops.

Have to agree, what happened to Niops was sad. I remember reading somewhere to the authors salting hte wound a little more by saying that the Marians did not even raid the place anymore, giving the idea that anything worth of raiding was gone. Have to search where i saw that.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 28 April 2021, 22:44:16
Fashionably late to the party, as usual.

May I suggest the lowly Pegasus to transport your Marauder BA, internally?

Pegasus does come in an Unarmed variant... it just swaps it for 12 tons of cargo!

And then you could add a Pair of Missile / Standard Pegasus combo and another Pair with Standard / Sensor Pegasus combo.

And further round this up with another Maniple of Paired Testudo and Triple Pike Missile support!

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 28 April 2021, 23:50:48
Have to agree, what happened to Niops was sad. I remember reading somewhere to the authors salting hte wound a little more by saying that the Marians did not even raid the place anymore, giving the idea that anything worth of raiding was gone. Have to search where i saw that.

Don't worry, anything can get worse.

Fashionably late to the party, as usual.

May I suggest the lowly Pegasus to transport your Marauder BA, internally?

Pegasus does come in an Unarmed variant... it just swaps it for 12 tons of cargo!

And then you could add a Pair of Missile / Standard Pegasus combo and another Pair with Standard / Sensor Pegasus combo.

And further round this up with another Maniple of Paired Testudo and Triple Pike Missile support!

TT

I'm going to keep this in mind for myself.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 29 April 2021, 00:04:58
The version you are pointing to was first trotted out to be a objective in a Clan scenario since before that they actually lacked cargo or even most troop carriers (TRO3058).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 29 April 2021, 00:10:29
There is no impediment for the Hegemony for example to do retroengineering and make Vulcan ASF or other old models

Vulcans! Really solid and rugged technology. Centurion ASF is another one.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 29 April 2021, 00:16:40
Vulcans are definitely on my short list to keep in mind should I decide to ever expand either Legion's fighter group.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 29 April 2021, 02:18:36
The version you are pointing to was first trotted out to be a objective in a Clan scenario since before that they actually lacked cargo or even most troop carriers (TRO3058).

That would have to be the Saladin ( Cargo ) which the Clans removed the AC and Ammo for cargo space.

The Unarmed Pegasus is from way before this timeline.

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 29 April 2021, 09:53:44
Vulcans! Really solid and rugged technology. Centurion ASF is another one.

Considering that the New Dallas Database was widely disseminated, that the Hegemony cannot rescue the technical data of the Vulcan, Centurion or even the venerable MM-1 / MM-2 Dragonfly ASF is insulting, the Vulcan ASF has been rebuilt. and armed with zero provincial universities of Lira as a practical work of a group of students, without more support than some teachers, that is, a group of technicians supported by a national state and a company putting money cannot achieve the same? Rare at least


Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 29 April 2021, 10:15:22
Have to agree, what happened to Niops was sad. I remember reading somewhere to the authors salting hte wound a little more by saying that the Marians did not even raid the place anymore, giving the idea that anything worth of raiding was gone. Have to search where i saw that.

Found it!

Quote
Oddly, though, no move has been made toward the Niops Association, perhaps because the devastation wrought by the Blakists makes it an unappealing target.
FM:3085, page 132.

At leasts they are still active as 3145, i remember them appearing in "To Ride the Chimera".
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 29 April 2021, 10:25:26
...provincial universities of Lira as a practical work of a group of students...

Worse, the students wer not even Lyrans. It was the Greenock Flight Academy on Firgrove, a FS academy. And acording to Objectives:FS, they are building it there. The only other place building them was the Hanseatic League (Now the Scorpion Empire).
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 29 April 2021, 11:06:36
Considering that the New Dallas Database was widely disseminated, that the Hegemony cannot rescue the technical data of the Vulcan, Centurion or even the venerable MM-1 / MM-2 Dragonfly ASF is insulting, the Vulcan ASF has been rebuilt. and armed with zero provincial universities of Lira as a practical work of a group of students, without more support than some teachers, that is, a group of technicians supported by a national state and a company putting money cannot achieve the same? Rare at least

They can probably get the data easily. Having the data is very different from having the industry to take advantage of that data. Moreover, what evidence do we have that the Hegemony even wants to build Vulcans? We might think it's a good idea, but that in no way guarantees that the Hegemony leadership feels the same way.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 29 April 2021, 11:28:43
They can probably get the data easily. Having the data is very different from having the industry to take advantage of that data. Moreover, what evidence do we have that the Hegemony even wants to build Vulcans? We might think it's a good idea, but that in no way guarantees that the Hegemony leadership feels the same way.

Weirdo between having heavy fighters and not having them and eternally depending on the importation of this or that supplier who in this or that year puts an embargo on you because you did something that he did not like, there is not much option or much to think about, particularly when your adversaries have DS, PWS and Fighters all over the place is common sense.
They just haven't decided anything about the production of the HMI since Field Report 3085, or from Marian Arms Inc in 3145 or from Techwizards who may well have retroengineered since they are specialists in that and in rebuilding something piecemeal, the options that there could be any mech or Aero in the Hegemony you have it there, and not only for the MHAF or the Militias but for the Fields of Mars of each system or even for Patricians who want to have their mech in perfect condition or directly a small group of paid Privatters to take care of their possessions, let's say that if this is common in the rest of the IS and the Periphery I do not see why in the Hegemony it was not the same way.

Because this happens, it is simple little or no internal development of the faction, post the MPS book.
As the update is relegated to Era Reports and Field Manuals, the existing Fluff is scarce or null, since it is not that we have appeared mentioned too much or well in the novels that have come out.
Tangential mention in Star Lord, in the novel of the Avanti Angels Double Blind as the puppet antagonist of WoB, and some mentions to the step more.
If at least we were good protagonists in some novel, perhaps we would have more material to see well what Marian society is like, since there is none of that, at my tables I grab what there is and mix it as Republican Rome / Empire was and that's how they act
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 29 April 2021, 12:48:08
I thought everyone in BT are shades of grey outside certain novels.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 30 April 2021, 16:56:39
On another topic and in an effort to create a bit of fluff for the Marian Hegemony and drawing points of contact with the old Roman organization, as they would seem to call the Hegemony militias outside the MHAF

Cohors Urbanae, the old name of the Urban Guards of the Old Roman Empire, another option would be Exercitus Communium, and which fundamentally encompasses the troops that emerged from the Champs de Mars that instead of joining the MHAF are integrated into this military body that would be the Militia. .

Another option would be Provincial Legions but this would be on a larger scale than a Planetary Militia.

What do you think? Militiamech, Old Mechs, and Tanks would be your Standard with perhaps some more modern  mech Patrician in charge in my opinion.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 30 April 2021, 21:05:16
Seems legit, with wealthier worlds able to draw from more than just industrial tech. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 01 May 2021, 01:23:08
So militia with a fancy name, but otherwise militia?

Seems pretty Marian to me.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 01 May 2021, 05:36:39
On another topic and in an effort to create a bit of fluff for the Marian Hegemony and drawing points of contact with the old Roman organization, as they would seem to call the Hegemony militias outside the MHAF

Cohors Urbanae, the old name of the Urban Guards of the Old Roman Empire, another option would be Exercitus Communium, and which fundamentally encompasses the troops that emerged from the Champs de Mars that instead of joining the MHAF are integrated into this military body that would be the Militia. .

Another option would be Provincial Legions but this would be on a larger scale than a Planetary Militia.

What do you think? Militiamech, Old Mechs, and Tanks would be your Standard with perhaps some more modern  mech Patrician in charge in my opinion.

They would be using lots of primitives, Arbiters, the wealthier worlds directly buying from former FWL or Lyran companies who always want profits
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Elmoth on 01 May 2021, 06:47:16
The militia would be the limitanei IMO. And then we have the legion comitatenses as the mobile elements.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 01 May 2021, 08:26:00
Militia of core or wealthy worlds would be Bucellarii.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 01 May 2021, 11:11:04
I always assumed that the proper planetary militias in the MH are called "Prima Auxilia Alphardensis", or similar, as stated in the M&M book.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 01 May 2021, 18:53:11
I think they would be primarily tanks with maybe a cohort of militamechs. I think any battlemech would go to a frontline unit.
Centurion militiamech
Quasits
Sarrisa
Crosscut
Should be very common.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 01 May 2021, 21:24:54
I need to get some Crosscuts. A lot of the MOD versions look fun as hell, and possibly more effective than people expect.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 03 May 2021, 10:20:27
And starting our race towards the Next Rec Guide, what do you think will happen to us, some new design mech, another IIC or that a design manufactured in our factories miraculously appears?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 03 May 2021, 12:03:52
I was surprised the fingerful of periphery variants were even brought up, but I doubt any of the Ilclan service guides will have a Marian variant.  That's just more of a focus on the designs and the factions than anything though.  I highly doubt the team wants to scrape a new primitech or rocket variant of a shiny new design when they're struggling to come up with something that has 30 variants already. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 May 2021, 15:50:01
I was surprised the fingerful of periphery variants were even brought up, but I doubt any of the Ilclan service guides will have a Marian variant.  That's just more of a focus on the designs and the factions than anything though.  I highly doubt the team wants to scrape a new primitech or rocket variant of a shiny new design when they're struggling to come up with something that has 30 variants already.

Like I said, everyone seems to be getting something . . . did the Calderon Protectorate get one?  I know the TC did (MAD-2T), the MoC (SHD-5H & -7H), of course the OA/RA but they do not quite count.  Which leaves . . . Marian Hegemony, Filtvelt Coalition (but they got the Hound), Rim Collection, whatever broke off of the Lyrans, Illyrians, Niops, Fronc, and maybe the Aurigans.

A lot of the periphery did get pilots mentioned- pirates, Aurigans, TC, MoC, OA, and bandit kingdoms . . . has Niops gotten a noted pilot?

I want a heavy built in a workshop type environment- like the Bandersnatch originally and Cronus.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 03 May 2021, 15:54:57
Like I said, everyone seems to be getting something . . . did the Calderon Protectorate get one?  I know the TC did (MAD-2T), the MoC (SHD-5H & -7H), of course the OA/RA but they do not quite count.  Which leaves . . . Marian Hegemony, Filtvelt Coalition (but they got the Hound), Rim Collection, whatever broke off of the Lyrans, Illyrians, Niops, Fronc, and maybe the Aurigans.

A lot of the periphery did get pilots mentioned- pirates, Aurigans, TC, MoC, OA, and bandit kingdoms . . . has Niops gotten a noted pilot?

I want a heavy built in a workshop type environment- like the Bandersnatch originally and Cronus.

There is neither mech, nor outstanding pilot Marian if that's what you're aiming for, that's why my mistrust with the editorial line and what they have done with the Hegemony not even a note of mention and if of a long-dead state

Is that to see the Hegemony has factories and even one as new as built in 3099 mechs / tanks but they were unable to say that it was built there and when they insist they come out with the Locust / Commando / Centurion when that was already built in the factories (not workshops, factories) of Alphard both ATC and Marian Arms, but the Addhara Factory and possibly Pompey nothing at all
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 May 2021, 16:20:37
 . . . workshop/factory for BT is the same thing, just implying method and speed of production.

As far as notable pilots . . . well, the Hegemony has only really existed in 5 eras- Clan Invasion, FCCW, Jihad, Republic and Dark Age.  Yes, they appeared before the Clans in the timeline but were a footnote for the Late SW period . . . and thus they also lack anyway to have a entry for Age of War, Star League, Early SW periods.  Not existing for half the eras limits options- and most of those notable pilots are uses of KS pilots.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 03 May 2021, 16:24:21
. . . workshop/factory for BT is the same thing, just implying method and speed of production.

As far as notable pilots . . . well, the Hegemony has only really existed in 5 eras- Clan Invasion, FCCW, Jihad, Republic and Dark Age.  Yes, they appeared before the Clans in the timeline but were a footnote for the Late SW period . . . and thus they also lack anyway to have a entry for Age of War, Star League, Early SW periods.  Not existing for half the eras limits options- and most of those notable pilots are uses of KS pilots.

And how long was the Aurigan Coalition, Randis, Fronc or the Rim Territories?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 03 May 2021, 16:41:04
Not existing for half the eras limits options- and most of those notable pilots are uses of KS pilots.

I am surprised that Randis have such much supporters in the KS. We got like 3 Notable Pilots.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 03 May 2021, 19:55:45
I am surprised that Randis have such much supporters in the KS. We got like 3 Notable Pilots.

I can see Randis, crusading knightly order fighting pirates who have a mix of clan outcasts and non-tube mutants seems like a cool concept both people and the writing team like.  Orinally I was going to do Randis or make my own merc company similar to em before settling on Marians and Hells Horses.  I still might do that to round out IS, Clan, and Periphery.

. . . workshop/factory for BT is the same thing, just implying method and speed of production.

As far as notable pilots . . . well, the Hegemony has only really existed in 5 eras- Clan Invasion, FCCW, Jihad, Republic and Dark Age.  Yes, they appeared before the Clans in the timeline but were a footnote for the Late SW period . . . and thus they also lack anyway to have a entry for Age of War, Star League, Early SW periods.  Not existing for half the eras limits options- and most of those notable pilots are uses of KS pilots.

That's not saying anything.  You can make any notable pilot from a short period of time just by surviving raid, pushing against the Tamarind/Magistry  militaries, or even just from pirate hunting.  Given that we had three canon applications either these were glossed over or no one made mention yet.  That's not to say the writers aren't interested, I certainly can't read their minds from here.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 May 2021, 20:34:13
And how long was the Aurigan Coalition, Randis, Fronc or the Rim Territories?

Late SW too- actually earlier than the Hegemony depending on what you think of ComStar, not sure, FCCW or Jihad, and at least Clan Invasion if not the same time as MH.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 03 May 2021, 21:01:09
Marian hegemony founding date is 2920, so 3th Succesion War time.


And how long was the Aurigan Coalition,

2910, House Arano - The Aurigan Coalition, page 11.

Randis,

The Brotherhood was founded in 2988, the planet is inhabitated since the time between the 1st and 2nd Succesion Wars, it was called Hope (and also Lost Hope at a time before Randis arrived).

Fronc

The planet was colonized jointly by the MoC and the TC in the mid-3050, the nation is from 3066.

or the Rim Territories?

The Rim Territories, a pirate nation, is from 3087. I think maybe Adacas is refering to the Rim Collection, that was created in 3048.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 03 May 2021, 21:24:12
Rim Collection is what I was referring to in the post trying to figure who has gotten a pilot mention.

As far as the Hegemony, it was not until Julius dad that the nation really started to be recognized IIRC?  before that it was a 'bandit kingdom' write off.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 03 May 2021, 21:51:10
Rim Collection is what I was referring to in the post trying to figure who has gotten a pilot mention.

As far as the Hegemony, it was not until Julius dad that the nation really started to be recognized IIRC?  before that it was a 'bandit kingdom' write off.

Nation, bandit kingdom, It all in the eye of the beholder. One can call  Oberon Confederation (before it got steamrolled by the Clans) a bandit kingdom, but was a functional nation, but recognized by non of the IS powers.

In my own opinion, i think the moment the Hgemony becomes a real "nation" was with Julius´s Grandad, Marius.

The Aurigans were recognized only by the MoC IIRC (and maybe the Taurians?), but i think CS was the only IS power to notice them.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 04 May 2021, 09:18:07
.

The Rim Territories, a pirate nation, is from 3087. I think maybe Adacas is refering to the Rim Collection, that was created in 3048.

No, I was referring precisely to the Rim Territories, I am almost certain that there is a pirate pilot of that origin in one of the Rec Guides, that is why it seems to me a joke that there are no pilots of the Marian Hegemony
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 May 2021, 09:47:55
No, I was referring precisely to the Rim Territories, I am almost certain that there is a pirate pilot of that origin in one of the Rec Guides, that is why it seems to me a joke that there are no pilots of the Marian Hegemony

 . . . because they are seeding KS characters with the faction they identified with and sprinkling them through the eras.  No MH characters?  Likely a very low number of Marian Hegemony pilots, and IIRC not something we can even look at since the website has sort of been abandoned.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 04 May 2021, 10:40:32
. . . because they are seeding KS characters with the faction they identified with and sprinkling them through the eras.  No MH characters?  Likely a very low number of Marian Hegemony pilots, and IIRC not something we can even look at since the website has sort of been abandoned.


Aja and the Rim Territories had more pilots than the Marian Hegemony? As an excuse it is quite cheap, when one faction is larger than another one should appear
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 04 May 2021, 12:08:20
. . . because they are seeding KS characters with the faction they identified with and sprinkling them through the eras.  No MH characters?  Likely a very low number of Marian Hegemony pilots, and IIRC not something we can even look at since the website has sort of been abandoned.

In my defense I got into the franchise well after Wave 2 sealed.  Iirc we only had 3 entries so far.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 May 2021, 12:30:14

Aja and the Rim Territories had more pilots than the Marian Hegemony? As an excuse it is quite cheap, when one faction is larger than another one should appear

You are totally talking about something else, I was never referencing the Territories when asking about Rim Collection having, as a periphery faction, any notable pilots.  I said the notable pilots came from KS character entries.  If there are not KS Marian entries, they are less likely to have Marian pilots appear in products.  Which is why other minor periphery powers come into play- has Niops, Rim Collection, or Fronc had a pilot mentioned?  I know Aurigan Coalition did- but that is for several reasons IMO.

You talk about a gang of pirates, I am almost willing to bet more folks chose 'pirate' as the faction or in their character fluff than MH.  It is like which has more, the specific Kell Hounds or generic mercs?  So, when using a generic pirate character, it is a lot easier to drop that character into a product than a faction specific character.

I am sorry Adacas that you take some of this personally.  It is not that TPTB are out to get the Hegemony . . . it is just indifference to the Hegemony b/c they do not matter to the narrative.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 04 May 2021, 16:15:55
https://characters.battletech.com/

Not by a lot honestly.  In general the periphery nations don't fit the narrative though. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 04 May 2021, 17:26:17
https://characters.battletech.com/

Not by a lot honestly.  In general the periphery nations don't fit the narrative though.

Apparently from the list of Periphery that you passed there are four of the Marian Hegemony
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 04 May 2021, 23:12:13
They're not worth mentioning. One guy put LAM designer likely as a meme, another guy put Elemental for whatever reason, someone put a Regulan washout... probably put Marian by accident.

The only one that's interesting is the Warhammer pilot in the Morituri and he had no info.  Lol.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 May 2021, 23:26:27
They threw out a pre-release page . . . it is not accurate last I heard nor does it include every survey.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 05 May 2021, 00:04:26
I didn't dig it up, someone posted it in the discord server and I happened to remember to look for the link.

I'd be interested to seeing more than this.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 05 May 2021, 02:19:59
I am sorry Adacas that you take some of this personally.  It is not that TPTB are out to get the Hegemony . . . it is just indifference to the Hegemony b/c they do not matter to the narrative.

If it's indifference the Hegemony better not lose their coreward provinces or get wiped out by the ridiculous Canopian-Tamarind offensive.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 05 May 2021, 05:35:54
HotW ama mentioned no factions getting wiped moving forward at the present time.  Not sure on the exact wording or if we're going to get Davioned in the next sourcebook.  The amount of info is just non-existent.

So... how do Legio armor cohorts look paintwise?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 05 May 2021, 08:04:38
Then the worst-case scenario would be the Hegemony reduced to a rump state around Alphard.

Marian armor sample - Gladius:
https://camospecs.com/search-results/?s_search=Gladius%20Hover%20Tank (https://camospecs.com/search-results/?s_search=Gladius%20Hover%20Tank)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 May 2021, 09:22:10
Then the worst-case scenario would be the Hegemony reduced to a rump state around Alphard.

Marian armor sample - Gladius:
https://camospecs.com/search-results/?s_search=Gladius%20Hover%20Tank (https://camospecs.com/search-results/?s_search=Gladius%20Hover%20Tank)

That is the fear I have, but some do not care about this, I want my faction to recover the splendor prior to the Dark Age Clicktech mucus that gave Lothario independence, they spoke at length about methods to make prosperity Hegemony and my position was not to continue advancing towards Marik, but the authors decided to do it and in the most stupid way attacking Tamarind instead of the independent worlds and Kendall.
All the fluff about cultural advancement to other peripheral or independent systems has proven to be nothingness itself
At least that's how it looks for now, And that's not to mention the absolute lack of info about what we produce or any other Fluff Except for Irregular Tech, which is already years old with respect to the timeline.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 05 May 2021, 09:52:00
HotW ama mentioned no factions getting wiped moving forward at the present time.  Not sure on the exact wording or if we're going to get Davioned in the next sourcebook.  The amount of info is just non-existent.

So... how do Legio armor cohorts look paintwise?

Not mine...

(https://forum.reapermini.com/uploads/monthly_2020_04/1537472948_20200421_1818202.thumb.jpg.d813b54e350fa8683736a454b65c21c0.jpg)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 May 2021, 09:54:10
Spectacular painted Maniple, I'm not really sure but they may have been painted by Weirdo or Saint
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 05 May 2021, 12:12:20
That's one of my Centuries, painted for VI Legio.

Turaglas - There is absolutely nothing that indicates that the conventional elements of a Legion use a different paint scheme from the mechs. Hence why the above tanks are in the exact same blue-and-white as VI Legio mechs.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 May 2021, 13:09:32
It seems that in June we will leave doubts about the fate of the Marian Hegemony IlClan arrives
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 05 May 2021, 14:51:40
That's one of my Centuries, painted for VI Legio.

Turaglas - There is absolutely nothing that indicates that the conventional elements of a Legion use a different paint scheme from the mechs. Hence why the above tanks are in the exact same blue-and-white as VI Legio mechs.

Cool.  Just wondering from a nuance standpoint on detailing.  Chill out.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 05 May 2021, 15:35:55
It seems that in June we will leave doubts about the fate of the Marian Hegemony IlClan arrives

Not sure what you are trying to say. The ilClan sourcebook is going to be about the fight for terra. The second one, Tamar Rising, is going to focus on the CJF occupation zone. So mostly will deal with the Lyrans, CJF remnants, CHH and possibly some CGB stuff. Plus whatever periphery stuff is in that area.

Tptb said they’ll focus on directions of the IS rather than nations individually. They’ll be in whatever book covers the FWL IMO.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 05 May 2021, 16:15:06
Not sure what you are trying to say. The ilClan sourcebook is going to be about the fight for terra. The second one, Tamar Rising, is going to focus on the CJF occupation zone. So mostly will deal with the Lyrans, CJF remnants, CHH and possibly some CGB stuff. Plus whatever periphery stuff is in that area.

Tptb said they’ll focus on directions of the IS rather than nations individually. They’ll be in whatever book covers the FWL IMO.

Makes sense.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 May 2021, 16:45:28
I know that he will focus on what is happening in Terra and the Republic, but if they comment on related events and perhaps a map of the IS and the surrounding area it would be something
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 05 May 2021, 17:17:48
I know that he will focus on what is happening in Terra and the Republic, but if they comment on related events and perhaps a map of the IS and the surrounding area it would be something

Like I said, that will come in the later sourcebooks, of which Tamar Rising is the first. It doesn’t make sense to put it in the ilClan sourcebook, which is one the battle we read about in Hour of the Wolf. Nor does a book focused on the other side of the Inner Sphere (where Tamar Rising is set) make sense to put information about the Marians. So it will come later, in an unannounced but intended source book.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 05 May 2021, 18:02:40
Like I said, that will come in the later sourcebooks, of which Tamar Rising is the first. It doesn’t make sense to put it in the ilClan sourcebook, which is one the battle we read about in Hour of the Wolf. Nor does a book focused on the other side of the Inner Sphere (where Tamar Rising is set) make sense to put information about the Marians. So it will come later, in an unannounced but intended source book.

It is as much as possible what you say, it is more it could come out in a book dedicated to the FWL or even some mention in the novel in which Nikol discovers who ordered to kill his father, I hope he unleashes his fury on someone who benefits us in some way , because the way things are going we don't have much hope of anything
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 05 May 2021, 22:21:10
Or the Capellan book given we don't know how that's going to turn out.  Which would be beneficial to MoC players as well.  If the Capellan contract ends because of turmoil deep in the IS, then Legio II and the handful of units of III left in Tamarind (not Tamarian) can go home. 

Like I said, that will come in the later sourcebooks, of which Tamar Rising is the first. It doesn’t make sense to put it in the ilClan sourcebook, which is one the battle we read about in Hour of the Wolf. Nor does a book focused on the other side of the Inner Sphere (where Tamar Rising is set) make sense to put information about the Marians. So it will come later, in an unannounced but intended source book.

That's a given for obvious reasons.  However since this is now post Hour into Ilclan we can see the new... uh, sector map?  Galaxy map?  I dunno what the BT community calls its regional faction map.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 06 May 2021, 00:28:19
Not mine...

(https://forum.reapermini.com/uploads/monthly_2020_04/1537472948_20200421_1818202.thumb.jpg.d813b54e350fa8683736a454b65c21c0.jpg)

Weirdo~

Just pack those up for my birthday in October!

What color blue is that?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 06 May 2021, 02:48:00
Looks more navy than royal blue.  Both look good, but the front painted like Scutums is brilliant.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 06 May 2021, 03:12:56
That is the fear I have, but some do not care about this, I want my faction to recover the splendor prior to the Dark Age Clicktech mucus that gave Lothario independence, they spoke at length about methods to make prosperity Hegemony and my position was not to continue advancing towards Marik, but the authors decided to do it and in the most stupid way attacking Tamarind instead of the independent worlds and Kendall.
All the fluff about cultural advancement to other peripheral or independent systems has proven to be nothingness itself
At least that's how it looks for now, And that's not to mention the absolute lack of info about what we produce or any other Fluff Except for Irregular Tech, which is already years old with respect to the timeline.

This. The Marians are just a throwaway sacrificial lamb for Marik. Hamfisted writing.

All Marians can do is to wait and see.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 06 May 2021, 08:15:05
The ilClan sourcebook is going to be about the fight for terra.

That's not correct.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 06 May 2021, 09:26:32
Weirdo~

Just pack those up for my birthday in October!

What color blue is that?

TT

Uh...blue? I dunno, something by Apple Barrel. I prefer to use craft paints when I can get away with it over the dedicated minis paints because they're so much cheaper for much larger bottles, and because no craft paint brand has ever been so infuriating as to try and sell me paints in dropper bottles.

Looks more navy than royal blue.  Both look good, but the front painted like Scutums is brilliant.

They put scutums on the front, I gotta paint scutums, it's an obligation! It's just like how anyone who owns any Triton ProtoMechs is obligated to paint at least one all pink.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 06 May 2021, 13:59:10
That's not correct.

I’m not sure how you are getting that, unless you know much more than me (which is entirely possible),from this


Experience the tumultuous Battle of Terra, which will shake the very foundations of the Inner Sphere. Then catch a glimpse of how the Great Houses and other major powers will face the outcome of this far-reaching conflict. Tactical maps, Chaos Campaign tracks, and new ’Mechs that debuted during the Battle of Terra all let you jump right into the cockpit and fight in the culmination of over three centuries of Clan history. Do you have what it takes to conquer the birthplace of humankind, or the courage to defend Terra from its enemies?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 06 May 2021, 15:17:23
I’m not sure how you are getting that, unless you know much more than me (which is entirely possible),from this


Experience the tumultuous Battle of Terra, which will shake the very foundations of the Inner Sphere. Then catch a glimpse of how the Great Houses and other major powers will face the outcome of this far-reaching conflict. Tactical maps, Chaos Campaign tracks, and new ’Mechs that debuted during the Battle of Terra all let you jump right into the cockpit and fight in the culmination of over three centuries of Clan history. Do you have what it takes to conquer the birthplace of humankind, or the courage to defend Terra from its enemies?

Maybe the Hegemony and other peripheral states have small mentions about things that are happening simultaneously with what happens on Terra, maybe some of the Great Houses make movements that weaken their borders or other things, troops and ships can be redirected elsewhere.

It's a vision of mine, but Kit has other accesses that we don't have, maybe he knows something about the book that we don't
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 06 May 2021, 15:55:30
"Experience the tumultuous Battle of Terra, which will shake the very foundations of the Inner Sphere. Then catch a glimpse of how the Great Houses and other major powers will face the outcome of this far-reaching conflict."

Bolding mine.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 06 May 2021, 15:57:58
Based on that was my first comment, an event of this scale has repercussions in various ways, it is like the proverbial stone in the pond (in this case the stone is almost an asteroid)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 May 2021, 16:28:59
"Experience the tumultuous Battle of Terra, which will shake the very foundations of the Inner Sphere. Then catch a glimpse of how the Great Houses and other major powers will face the outcome of this far-reaching conflict."

Bolding mine.

Which is what we got with the interludes.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 06 May 2021, 16:35:33
I hope we do better than with the last one, and for better I speak of with the nation intact and without being a province or colony of any of those who attack us now
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 06 May 2021, 19:52:04
Uh...blue? I dunno, something by Apple Barrel. I prefer to use craft paints when I can get away with it over the dedicated minis paints because they're so much cheaper for much larger bottles, and because no craft paint brand has ever been so infuriating as to try and sell me paints in dropper bottles.

They put scutums on the front, I gotta paint scutums, it's an obligation! It's just like how anyone who owns any Triton ProtoMechs is obligated to paint at least one all pink.

I would have to make one name Roach and explain to other players this one appears anywhere when you call it. 

I hope we do better than with the last one, and for better I speak of with the nation intact and without being a province or colony of any of those who attack us now

I'll just wait for the new map.  New books primary focus is the result of the Wolf victories over Terra. 
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 06 May 2021, 20:22:36
I would have to make one name Roach and explain to other players this one appears anywhere when you call it. 

Even in places that defy gravity... ;D
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 06 May 2021, 22:51:57
Even in places that defy gravity... ;D

Defies gravity and physics.  Why did your Epona appear through the building ontop of that silo?

Because.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 07 May 2021, 08:04:38
I hope we do better than with the last one, and for better I speak of with the nation intact and without being a province or colony of any of those who attack us now

We shall wait and see. In the meantime, everyone gets to see what happens around the Sphere and their repercussions on the Hegemony.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 07 May 2021, 11:20:54
We'll just pull through like we always do.

Have a good weekend Marians and fellow periphery folk.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 08 May 2021, 18:39:19
Okay, here's a challenge:

Build a Hegemony 'Mech century(or Maniple if you really want to) suitable for a planetary militia, Patrician's private forces, Cohors Morituri, or any other bottom-tier force you can imagine operating within Marian borders.

Here's the criteria:

All units must be available to the Hegemony, per the MUL.
The total BV of the force cannot exceed 6,000BV, and this is base cost only, no improved pilots.
All units must be either Primitive units, IndustrialMechs, or IndustrialMech MODs.
You can build for any available era or preferred terrain.

So...watcha got?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 09 May 2021, 10:38:45
Let's see I'll go with.

Centurion 2H
Centurion 2H
Centurion 2H
Icarus 1X
Icarus 1X

Crosscut ED-X5M-B
Crosscut ED-X5M-B
Crosscut ED-X5M-B
Crosscut ED-X5M-B
Crosscut  ED-X5M

Had to modify my list because I miscalculated  the BV.

This list comes in at 5964 points
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Moonsword on 09 May 2021, 11:06:30
You've got two choices.  Either you pile on the tonnage with rare, unusual assaults to eat enough BV to do that in a century, or you channel Ravannion and hope weight of numbers in a maniple actually works.  The latter is probably a terrible idea.  I'm going to do it anyway.

Milieu is Early Republic, Marian Hegemony/Periphery General, and we're going full "BattleMech" to make this look better on paper until someone notices the model numbers on everything.

Century I Aerium:
2x DV-1S Dervish
3x WSP-1 Wasp

Century II Miles:
2x CN9-H Centurion
1x TR-A-1 Toro
2x COM-1A Commando
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Ruger on 09 May 2021, 16:51:37
Would this work?

Century 1:
Shadow Hawk-2H
Quasit-51T
Commando-1A x 3

Century 2:
Griffin-1A
Wolverine-3R
Wasp-1 x 3

BV comes up to 5992.

Ruger
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 09 May 2021, 22:13:47
Aren't the Shad-2H and Wolverine-3R intro tech units? That's too advanced for this thought exercise.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 May 2021, 01:00:43
Aren't the Shad-2H and Wolverine-3R intro tech units? That's too advanced for this thought exercise.

Wolverine 3R is still primitive it says- has removed 1t of ammo & 3t armor from the 1R to mount the SRM6 & ammo . . . not sure it is complete prim b/c the RS is not in front of me.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Ruger on 10 May 2021, 05:46:48
Aren't the Shad-2H and Wolverine-3R intro tech units? That's too advanced for this thought exercise.

The Wolverine-3R is supposed to be primitive.

Forgot about that on the S-Hawk. Ok, will have to think of a better replacement. Might be best to go with another Quasit.

Ruger
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 10 May 2021, 09:45:37
My apologies, got the Wolverine-3R and -6R mixed up.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 10 May 2021, 14:02:48
My apologies, got the Wolverine-3R and -6R mixed up.

Quite understandable- it was the 'basis' of the -6R loadout.  I know I used the -1R/3R mini to make a -7M, and will use the -3R mini for a -6R stand in rather than my unseen.  Hm . . . I have two plastic KS -6R, unseen 6R, -3R, -7M, -7H, and -8K. I think it makes the Wolverine the most common IS mini I have (after Clan Timberwolves) with . . . Marauders? being the next closest.

With the TBolt dropping and the MHAF not getting a version . . . what heavy IS mechs are left from the KS art- or suspect is included?

Crusader . . . Orion? (more later) . . . Dragon . . . Guillotine? . . . and the last Ost?

Not many choices left, though we still have 3055 re-design options.

Now that I look at that list . . . WOW, is a Orion the most likely?  ESPECIALLY since they have been operating against Kendall for so long.  Especially since I always felt a simple ON-1K upgrade was missing- FF armor, DHS, LB-10X and ERMLs.  I would totally be on board with the Marians constructing something like that after their numerous raids on Kendall.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 10 May 2021, 14:05:22
That would be a welcome surprise.

I'm gonna stay out of the militia exercise because I know jack all still but I do have my own century list finally thanks to friends.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 10 May 2021, 14:27:28
First Century (Belisarius) - Algenib Camp Mars Cadre

Firebee  FRB-1E
Toro  TR-A-1
Toro  TR-A-1
Icarus  ICR-1X
Centurion CN9-H

3404 Pts



Century  Albus -  Pompey Mars Camp Cadre

Firebee  FRB-1E
Centurion CN9-H
Centurion CN9-H
Shadow Hawk SHD-1R
Dervish DVS-1S

3925 pts
         


Century "The Itviano Raiders"  Privatters

Gladiator GLD-1R
Shadow Hawk SHD-1R
Archer ARC-1A
Emperor  EMP-1A
HawkWolf HWK-3F

5949 Pts


Century The Indomits  Marian Rebels Anti/Marik

Rifleman RFL-1N
Gladiator GLD-1R
Gladiator GLD-1R
Centurion CN9-H
Centurion CN9-H

4681 Pts




Well, the framing of the units is not quite right for me, I wanted to put three Centurys that exemplify two variants of Centurys, two of them represent the Training Cadres of the Camp de Mars, which I suppose will train with primitive mechs, their veterancy could vary between Green and Regular

The Third Century could be the composition of a unit or part of a unit of Privatters of some Rich Patrician House, which can have functions of Guard of the CAsa, Custody of properties in the style of any factory or mine that is of its position or do the times of Garrote of that House, sending it in punishment operations to some rival outside the Hegemony to which they cannot send the MHAf because it is a private matter

All mechs are Primitives or Retrotech style the Centurion or the HawkWolf

Add a new Century in this case Marian Rebels Gladiators of the Illyria Circus resisting the invader Marik





















Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 10 May 2021, 16:41:23
I can't make heads or tails of those numbers, but it looks like you missed the requirement of zero improved pilots - this is looking at the base BV of the mechs only.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 10 May 2021, 17:01:02
I can't make heads or tails of those numbers, but it looks like you missed the requirement of zero improved pilots - this is looking at the base BV of the mechs only.

Ready Updated and with BV points every Century
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 11 May 2021, 14:19:02
Finally from this Rec Guide 15 we had 3 Thuds designs, one I think we already had the 7M, Too bad, that Phoenix Hawk IIC with an ax didn't touch us
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 11 May 2021, 14:56:28
I posted the challenge, and have finally had the time to put together my own group. Gotta be honest, when I first posted this I didn't have an appreciation for how frigging cheap these machines are, and didn't know it'd be that easy to go for a full Maniple of mechs in the BV that my group uses as a baseline for a single lance of modern machines.

First Century:

Emperor EMP-1A
Lumberjack LM5/M
Crosscut ED-X4M-E
Crosscut ED-X4M
Carbine CON-9M

Second Century:
2x Wasp WSP-1
2x Commando COM-1A
Cattlemaster CTL-3R3

Total BV = 5948

First Century has an emphasis on ranged combat, able to actually respond with real firepower at the kind of ranges most proper military forces can fight at. The Emperor and Lumberjack are the clear stars that will try to attract and absorb attention whenever possible. The Crosscut-E will surprise many folks by mounting an actual heavy gun, though it'll probably try to fire from cover whenever possible. The Carbine will likely do the same being the most fragile mech in this group, possibly staying behind hard cover entirely and firing indirectly. The remaining Crosscut is the escort. It'll stay in cover as well and spot for the Carbine, only advancing if enemies try to get into close combat so it can mash the Go-Away button.

Second Century isn't that varied, but there just aren't that many Primitives or IndustrialMechs fast enough to perform recon or flanking duties. The Wasps are, well, Wasps, they'll do what they always do. I'm hoping the Commandos will prove a nasty surprise, since most folks expect Commandos to mount a much more close-in weapons array, especially since the Marians build their own model with exactly that. The Cattlemaster is slower than the rest, but is mainly there to provide that Century with some LRM support even when operating independently of First Century.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 11 May 2021, 15:18:43
Second Century isn't that varied, but there just aren't that many Primitives or IndustrialMechs fast enough to perform recon or flanking duties.

I'm sure you could squeeze a Pathfinder in there.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 11 May 2021, 15:40:36
Kinda tempting. It's disqualified from this challenge because it's not on the Marian MUL, but for regular games it could work. I could see some noble special-buying one for their personal forces, especially if they think they'll have the only one in the Hegemony.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 11 May 2021, 16:33:00
Your strength is quite good to do hit and run actions in open terrain and perhaps suburban areas, the Emperor gives them a bit more punch, clearly you should choose the targets to attack quite well.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 11 May 2021, 16:49:03
Isn't that always a good idea?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 11 May 2021, 17:48:15
Isn't that always a good idea?

It is always good to know how far one can make an effective attack and that it benefits the unit in the future, if for example your unit were rebels in Illyria or other worlds occupied by Tamarind or Canopus, I would target any Convoy of supplies of weapons, ammunition or spare parts, if the situation is different the circumstance changes
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 12 May 2021, 07:49:52
So... I'm guessing this means you're not talking about what I thought you were talking about, in terms of selecting which enemy mechs to target on the battlefield?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 12 May 2021, 09:21:56
So... I'm guessing this means you're not talking about what I thought you were talking about, in terms of selecting which enemy mechs to target on the battlefield?

I think whats Adacas tried to say is something like "with a force like that, in the case of beign an insurgent force against Tamarind or Canopian occupiers, you have to target things like convoy trucks and such before actual mechs".
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 12 May 2021, 09:26:26
Let me clarify: This is not a campaign force. It is a force for taking to a game store on weekends and throwing it against another force of unknown composition, numbers, era, or tech, of roughly equal BV, in unknown terrain. It's a pickup game force, not something for campaigns.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 May 2021, 09:59:28
Ah okay I thought it was for something more elaborate like a stage that you wanted to develop
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 12 May 2021, 12:16:45
Gods no. 95% of my games are one-off pickup games, and I see no reason to change that. I play Battletech for fun, not homework.

The only campaign I've done recently is still ongoing, the Chaos Campaign tracks in Era Report 3052. No tracking parts, no having to track movements or choose enemies, none of that horrible stuff. Just a vague narrative framework that ties independent scenarios together in the loosest way possible while still being technically a campaign.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 12 May 2021, 13:42:10
Okay, it's a way to play, I prefer the scenarios with a background, and with the 4-year ATOW Campaign that I am directing, I always have loose ideas unused to make varied scenarios, with existing worlds and worlds taken from my Chronicle some of which are pretty tough.

The idea of whether they were insurgents Marians was taking the current situation of the Hegemony according to Shattered Fortress.

We are close to starting a new thread
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 12 May 2021, 20:38:21
The 50-page limit still stands? I thought threads could be unlimited nowadays :))
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 12 May 2021, 22:10:15
Nerp, still get closed at fifty.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 13 May 2021, 09:21:37
Noted
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 May 2021, 09:26:35
Any idea what topic we set apart from Mars Rising:Marian Hegemony V?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Colt Ward on 13 May 2021, 09:37:31
Roma Victoria?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 May 2021, 09:42:04
It could be, it could also be Alphard Vindicati
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 13 May 2021, 10:08:19
Any idea what topic we set apart from Mars Rising:Marian Hegemony V?

Barbari ite domum?
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 May 2021, 10:12:28
Barbari ite domum?

It is another option that
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 13 May 2021, 11:39:50
Nerp, still get closed at fifty.

Really IS threads should close at 40 pages, Clan threads at 50, ComStar ones at 60 and Marian ones at 100 pages.
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 May 2021, 13:21:38
I think we are a few messages from the 25/30 that go per page and we reach 50
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: jimdigris on 13 May 2021, 15:04:14
Any idea what topic we set apart from Mars Rising:Marian Hegemony V?
"'tis but a scratch."
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Adacas on 13 May 2021, 15:15:17
We will see how it comes out at the time of making the post I would prefer it to be in Latin
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: truetanker on 13 May 2021, 18:03:40
We will see how it comes out at the time of making the post I would prefer it to be in Latin

Et tu, Adacas?

TT
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: ArkRoyalRavager on 13 May 2021, 20:36:13
I suggest a vote as what the Plebeians and Senators would do:

1) Roma Victoria - 1
2) Alphard Vindicati - 1
3) Barbari ite domum - 1
4) "'tis but a scratch." - 1

Just copy and add your votes to the relevant sections OR add your own suggestions plus the vote ;)
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 13 May 2021, 22:10:24
1) Roma Victoria - 1
2) Alphard Vindicati - 1
3) Barbari ite domum - 1
4) "'tis but a scratch." - 1
5) Non lego latine - 1
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Elmoth on 13 May 2021, 23:45:20
Any Monty python reference will get my vote
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Saint on 14 May 2021, 05:22:55
1) Roma Victoria - 1
2) Alphard Vindicati - 1
3) Barbari ite domum - 1
4) "'tis but a scratch." - 1
5) Non lego latine - 1
6) Keep the traditional name -1
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Turaglas on 14 May 2021, 06:48:28
1) Roma Victoria - 1
2) Alphard Vindicati - 1
3) Barbari ite domum - 1
4) "'tis but a scratch." - 1
5) Non lego latine - 1
6) Keep the traditional name -1
7) Semper Idem -1
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Elmoth on 14 May 2021, 08:34:10
1) Roma Victoria - 1
2) Alphard Vindicati - 1
3) Barbari ite domum - 2
4) "'tis but a scratch." - 1
5) Non lego latine - 1
6) Keep the traditional name -1
7) Semper Idem -1
Title: Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
Post by: Weirdo on 14 May 2021, 08:56:27
Fifty pages, time for one of you to start the new thread. No, I won't do it, not after having to deal with this one on my Replies page for so long.