Can the Magistracy really be seen as a "Periphery" power by 3145?

[Korzon77]

I mean, they're well integrated with the Is and are definitely a power, complete with some fairly major interests in the Inner Sphere, which seem to override their periphery side intersts-- so at this point are they really a part of the periphery in the traditional meaning of the word?

[Kitsune413]

The Trinity Alliance is a Time Bomb. I don't know when its going off or who it is hurting. But its counting down.

[Maelwys]

I think they still have to be. For a couple of reasons.

1) Size. The Magistracy is still relatively small compared to the Successor States. in 3067 it was about 44 systems. The CapCon, the smallest of the Successor States until the Mariks broke up had Commonalities that were the size of the Magistracy and bigger.

2) Armed Forces. We don't know the exact unit count for 3145 yet, but the Magistracy seemed to be pushing it to get out the 16 or so regiments that it got to before and after the Jihad. I can't see them able to expand much beyond that, maybe to 20 or so at the "request" of the Capellans. Even at 20 regiments that seems to be below what the average Successor State maintains (and we don't know any draw downs that the Magistracy might have done during the "peace" years).

3) Production. The Magistracy is still pretty limited in their production of materials. They're building more than they used to, but they're still limited to only 2 DropShips, no JumpShips, no assault `Mechs and their tech rating seems to lag behind the various Successor States (though maybe not as much as it used to).

4) Economy. Tied into production above, the Magistracy's economy has grown in leaps and bounds, but it also runs the same risk it had before when the first Star League fell. If the Magistracy's economy is reliant on the other states, to the point where it can suffer from a major economic depression if that trade is cut off, then they're still a Periphery realm.

So I think they still have a few things to handle before they can be considered "non-Periphery"

[Nerroth]

I'm not sure if size should be the only factor in deciding what counts as "Inner Sphere" and what counts as "Periphery"; the Magistracy is still bigger than Andurien, and likely rivals (or exceeds) Regulus, both of which are still counted as Inner Sphere states.

I guess the convention of treating the periphery as starting such-and-such a distance from Terra may still hold sway, at least in part. If the bulk of a realm still lies on one or other side of this arbitrary line, it is considered to be part of one or the other.

For example, the former Rim Worlds territory that was gobbled up by the Lyrans in Operation ALMARIC was considered to then be part of the Inner Sphere, not the Periphery, since it now belonged to a "Spheroid" realm. Whereas worlds which had been part of the original FWL that are now under Marian occupation are now classed as "Periphery", since the bulk of the Hegemony is still considered to be an outer rim territory.


Cultural factors would play a role here, too. From as far back as the realm's founding, the Magistracy has affirmed its identity as a Periphery power, as oppose to an Inner Sphere one. Simply having a series of weaker neighbours (as it ended up having from 3079 through 3139) didn't make the Canopians see themselves as any less part of the Periphery, even if the neighbouring Great House was no more (as a federal entity).

[snewsom2997]

They will always be the periphery, until a bunch of people move out past them, and surround them, with new states.

[Aleksandr]

I think it's more that the major periphery states have changed the way they interact with the Inner Sphere. They're much more involved, and have shown they can play at the same level - even if they're at a disadvantage in size. They still have more flavor (imo) and the Periphery attitude, but for true disconnection from the IS and low-tech shenanigans, you have to go to the Deep Periphery or the minor states.

[False Son]

Yeah, I think of the Periphery as a place, not a status.

[jimdigris]

When Daoshen dies, the Majestracy's borders will extend to the former Republic worlds.  Then, it will no longer be a Periphery power. >:D

[Deadborder]

Getting back on-topic...

I don't see how the Magistracy is not a Periphery Power. Geographically it's a part of the Periphery and historically it's a part of the Periphery. Allying with a Successor State doesn't change any of that; being bigger then certain numbers isn't going to change anything from being another Periphery nation. Despite all that has changed, they're still seperate states

The MoC's secret is that it was smart enough to see an opportunity and take it, rather then living in isolation. That's what sets them apart from the other Periphery states, but it doesn't stop them from being one.

[Lazarus Jaguar]

They will always be the periphery, until a bunch of people move out past them, and surround them, with new states.

* Lazarus Jaguar looking past the Magistracy

Oh hey Woverines. What are you doing over there?

[False Son]

You know, plotting the downfall of the clans and the Inner Sphere.  Wolverine stuff.

[rebs]

Do they have cookies?   ;D

[Korzon77]

Do they have cookies?   ;D

No. The clans took all their cookies. Every last one of them. And they ate them. In front of the Wolverines.

there, now you know the root of this eternal conflict.

[Kamose]

Personally, I'd say no. At this point, they seem to be nothing more than a House Liao vassal state - they CLEARLY dance to Dasoshen's tune.
Kamose

[Maelwys]

Do they really however? Some of the MWDA novels suggest that the Magistracy is a lesser of two partners (troubles with Capellan customs and Pleasure Circuses, IIRC), but at the same time those novels also suggest that Ilsa has Daoshen wrapped around her finger.

TR 3145 CapCon gave us instances of the Magistracy producing its own gear (some of it highly advanced) without any comment on the CapCon providing assistance, and they're even able to sell it to the Capellans.

At the same time, Magistracy troops seem to be used as reserve troops and garrison troops in the Capellan's conquests. If they were a complete vassal state to the CapCon, you'd expect those troops to either be used as fodder, or in the best case scenario, pressed into line combat just like the CapCon troops. So far this doesn't seem to be the case.

Are they the lesser of the two states? More likely than not, yes. But I'm not quite sure vassal and dancing can be used to describe it completely either.

[Dragon Cat]

The Trinity Alliance is a Time Bomb. I don't know when its going off or who it is hurting. But its counting down.

The Trinity Aliance is long dead the Taurians got drop kicked to the side during the Jihad when Sun-Tzu married Naomi even the Taurians knew they were not wanted

Personally I see the Magistracy as little more than a Capellan Commonality now unless and until they formally break off relations, which I can't really see why they would, the two are linked with way too much blood to be separated

[jimdigris]

The Cappies can't force government policy on the Majistracy, so I wouldn't call the MoC a vassal state.

[False Son]

I'll believe it when MoC adopts a caste system.

[Kamose]

Thanks for the clarification.  The "lesser state in the partnership" is definitely the correct way to describe what I was trying to say.
Thanks,
Kamose

[False Son]

It is worth pointing out that Ilsa is disasisfied with the arrangement.  Marrying Ari Humphreys could just as easily be a move to check the runaway ego of Daoshen.

[jeyar]

Has the MoC eliminated slavery?

[Maelwys]

That was one of the dumbest things ever written into the Magistracy's fluff (and when I say written, I mean all of 5 characters on a salary chart). So dumb it should probably be ignored, especially since when the writers were asked about it they were basically like "Uh, I don't really know what we meant there!"

Its better to continue the hold true to the fluff of the Magistracy, where slavery is impossible, and not a silly salary chart that has no fluff behind it :)

Another boon for the Magistracy, the Heir-Apparent seems very comfortable with her Canopian roots, and was raised heavily by Erde in the Magistracy, so she's probably very pro-Magistracy instead of being a CapCon-centric type of character.

[rebs]

I've always wondered about the Capellan/Magistracy alliance, because it seems to me that the Canopians have more in common with the Free Worlds League.  Kossandra Centrella was born a Free Worlder and served in their military before she decided to leave and take her followers with her.  I still hold out hope that they'll one day subvert the League with their superior culture.

[Maelwys]

Well, the Magistracy's founders came from the FWL true, but they didn't like them too much, and the cultures seem to have taken completely different routes once the Magistracy came into existence. Even their cultural view of cybernetics are completely different.

That's not to say that the Magistracy and the FWL (or atleast parts of it) can't work together (see the Canopian/Andurien alliances in two different era). I just don't think their cultures are that closely aligned.

Now admittedly, the Magistracy's culture is probably closer to the FWL's than the oppressive culture of the CapCon, but at the time the CapCon was offering, and the FWL was harboring the WoB who was messing about with pirates in the area and the Marians.

[Kitsune413]

That was one of the dumbest things ever written into the Magistracy's fluff (and when I say written, I mean all of 5 characters on a salary chart). So dumb it should probably be ignored, especially since when the writers were asked about it they were basically like "Uh, I don't really know what we meant there!"

Its better to continue the hold true to the fluff of the Magistracy, where slavery is impossible, and not a silly salary chart that has no fluff behind it :)

Im probably misremembering but I thought you could sell yourself into indenturedd servitude in the magistracy? I thought they had the freedom to sell their freedom. Though it was legally overseen.

Maybe some other culture? I know if you become a noble you get to marry whoever you want and I dont think they get a say in the matter.

[Maelwys]

I don't think indebted servitude has ever been mentioned with regard to the Magistracy. I could be wrong, but I'd like some source on it.

[Strike05]

Last I saw the Magistracy has expanded to the Fronc Reaches and is attacking both the FWL and CC, that takes some guts, but they could bit off more than they could chew against two super powers.

On the other hand the FWL is facing an invasion against the Marian Hegemony and Clan Wolf is bearing down on them. While the CC isn't gonna be happy about it.

[rebs]

Last I saw the Magistracy has expanded to the Fronc Reaches and is attacking both the FWL and CC, that takes some guts, but they could bit off more than they could chew against two super powers.

On the other hand the FWL is facing an invasion against the Marian Hegemony and Clan Wolf is bearing down on them. While the CC isn't gonna be happy about it.

I love this part of the Periphery, so much fun stretched out in a meandering arc from the old Rim areas to the Concordat before diffusing out past the Davion outback. {>{>  I miss it. 

The Canopians have no shortage of factions that look like possible allies, but I don't know if the Marians or any one else will see it that way.  It sure would be nice for them to get back with Andurien and maybe some of those independent planets that used to be part of the League. 

[ColonelCody]

I'll believe it when MoC adopts a caste system.

They have one. "Female..or Male." O0

[jimdigris]

Last I saw the Magistracy has expanded to the Fronc Reaches and is attacking both the FWL and CC, that takes some guts, but they could bit off more than they could chew against two super powers.

On the other hand the FWL is facing an invasion against the Marian Hegemony and Clan Wolf is bearing down on them. While the CC isn't gonna be happy about it.

Since the 3060s, the Majistracy and the Cappies have been allies.  There have been no invasions of each other since then.  There have been troops temporarily exchanged from time to time.

[Kitsune413]

They have one. "Female..or Male." O0

Mostly abolished during the Star League occupation.  ;D

[False Son]

Even then, it was more informal than the stratified system of the Capellans.

[ColonelCody]

Mostly abolished during the Star League occupation.  ;D

Dont you mean The Great Seduction of the Star League general?

[False Son]

Actually, it was the Humpreys who eased the institutionalized sexism in the Magistracy during the Star League occupation.  The Humphreys are themselves known for their strong matriarchal traditions.

[HyperionCormyr]

I've been wondering if the Majestry is playing some sort of Long Game where they are looking to take over a lot of Capellan systems and bring them out of the caste system by "conquest through marriage".  Marry into the Confederation, slowly introduce Canopian good and ideals, and then perform massive reforms once Daoshen dies.

Then form the marital bond with Andurien and you've got a new, much more powerful and secure Inner Sphere state that looks more away from Terra and more towards the rest of space. 

I would also be led to believe that the MoC is a little more interested in taking a bite out of those powers that don't share the "do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else" philosophy they expouse.  And that means I'm looking straight at YOU Marian Hegemony and your "slave" caste.

[jimdigris]

That's my hope. ;)

[Colt Ward]

Double Blind pointed out it might be a bit hard for them to conquer around the edge of the Sphere, but at that time it was going the other direction.  And the Dark Age has made the logistical planning worse- the Rim Collection claimed Astrokraszy after the Jihad which means they have to push out further.  Would Niops let such a armed force pass?  Or allow parties at war to transit their system?

Right now the MoC/Andurien is growing into the unclaimed FWL systems, probably trying to create a larger buffer between the falled Regulan systems re-integrating with the neoLeague.  When you can take such jewels why travel off the beaten path?

[NeonKnight]

No. The clans took all their cookies. Every last one of them. And they ate them. In front of the Wolverines.

there, now you know the root of this eternal conflict.

Except for the raisin cookies...nobody likes raison cookies...not even the Wolverines. :(

[Red Pins]

...I figure they'll always be considered a 'Periphery' realm, given they're outside that magic 500-ly line that defines the 'Inner Sphere' and 'Periphery'.

I don't think they'll ever formally join into a single nation, after what happened after the F-C debacle, either.  Allied Realms, sure.  But besides the distance from Terra, technology was the real divider.

I haven't read much about the DA, but I get the feeling that even after seeing Primitive mechs could defend Hesian (?) from the Wobblies and bulk up the armies of the IS, the example was lost on the canon Periphery realms.  Too bad, it could have been interesting, seeing the highest tech around Terra with fewer and fewer high tech weapons the further away from Terra you got.  That way the whole of the rulebook might have been used in the canon setting.

[Deadborder]

The periphery nations did use Primitive 'Mechs during the Jihad to bulk out forces and replace losses. The problem was that the Periphery nations had smaller militaries and a less advanced technological base to begin with, so they weren't able to gain as much from the deal. In their cases, it was more filling holes then anything else.

Besides, what happened on Heisen wasn't just Primitive 'Mechs. It was their use in conjunction with other existing units on what was allready a relatively advanced and high-tech world.

[Maelwys]

Oddly, Objectives Periphery states that the Magistracy was "never forced to institute programs to manufacture primitive BattleMechs. They maintained production of modern BattleMechs throughout the Jihad."

And yet they're cranking out quite a bit of primitives. Must have been selling them left and right.

[Colt Ward]

Or part of sweetening merc contracts.