Poll

In a choice of Counters vs. Minis, how likely would you use counters?

Never! Minis only!
50 (23%)
Rarely. I would only use counters as the last resort (after I run out of minis).
67 (30.9%)
Occasionally. I'll play with whatever's on hand to get the numbers I need.
56 (25.8%)
A lot. Sorry, but I just can't afford a big minis collection.
37 (17.1%)
All the time. Who has shelf space for minis?
7 (3.2%)

Total Members Voted: 217

Voting closed: 01 September 2013, 12:44:43

Author Topic: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?  (Read 27770 times)

HABeas2

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July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« on: 24 July 2013, 12:44:44 »
Hi,

Time for another fun Official Poll. Subject this month: Miniatures or counters (or both)? In the hypothetic conditions under which you play BattleTech (let's presume you do; just humor me here), and you play on either hex-based terrain or terrain, let's say you have access to a mix of counters and minis, but you don't have a lot of financial resources (again, humor me here), do you use your counters, or restrict play to just minis? We're not going to talk WYSIWYG here; this is just a pure and simple questions of if and how much you'd be likely to use counters in place of minis.

So, put another way: in a question of how often would you use counters over minis, how often would you use counters (if at all). Let's presume, for the moment, that the counters are something like cardboard or paper stand-ups that are admittedly less impressive than minis, but also less expensive and storage-intensive.

Comments welcome. No flaming. Poll ends on 31 August 2013.

Thanks,

- Herb

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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #1 on: 24 July 2013, 12:58:24 »
Minis only.  Since I play on terrain, a cardboard counter doesn't provide an accurate enough bit to determine partial cover of things other than the legs.
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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #2 on: 24 July 2013, 13:02:31 »
Can and have mixed minis and counters before, and would readily do so again in the future. O0

Minis only.  Since I play on terrain, a cardboard counter doesn't provide an accurate enough bit to determine partial cover of things other than the legs.
Some sort of folding stand-up counter or box counter wouldn't work?
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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #3 on: 24 July 2013, 13:05:15 »
I would be more amenable to counters, but after having spend most of my "Battletech Playing Life" using Minis, its kinda hard to revert back...
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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #4 on: 24 July 2013, 13:05:49 »
Miniatures.


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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #5 on: 24 July 2013, 13:08:07 »
Can and have mixed minis and counters before, and would readily do so again in the future. O0
 Some sort of folding stand-up counter or box counter wouldn't work?

The picture would be smaller than the 'Mechs, and determining if an arm or storso is covered, or how far could be a bit difficult on many 'Mechs.  Although it is probably more accurate than on some of the odd mini poses that we have.
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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #6 on: 24 July 2013, 13:13:58 »
In a time where 3D prints arebecoming cheaper and more prevalent for games at the mid price ranges 30-50 USD per unit, games like the new Ogre and others that use cardboard or plastic standups or counters, represent a step backward in my mind.

Outside of 3rd Reich-style military sims, which require information to be printed on them as a game mechanic, I think I would pass on buying a miniatures type game with generally 2-dimensional components. 
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keeganreid

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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #7 on: 24 July 2013, 13:18:50 »
I have only used miniatures.  Even when I had the counters that came with one of the early box sets I didn't want to use them because I loved using the metal miniatures so much.  I honestly like the plastic ones just fine as well.  Either is okay. 

Now the interesting thing is the timing of your question, because I just recently got interested in Dungeons and Dragons again after 17 long years... and I decided to build up my knowledge base to DM "Against the Giants" by Gary Gygax or a modified hybrid/modification of that module which has TONS of mobs in it. 

This past week I have been making counters or stand up formboard/card stock color printed 2 dimensional representations of the mobs/monsters because it would have cost me thousands of dollars to buy all of the miniatures needed to run that game.  So in this case I don't really mind using cardboard/foam-board counters. 

But for Battletech, I feel like there is a sense of pride attached to those metal or plastic miniatures especially if they are painted that I would just never get from cardboard counters. 

Now I have seen some images of some really interesting cardboard counters around on the web that are in like three layers and look 3 dimensional but I don't know many people that would go through the work of assembling those.   

My preference is Metal or Plastic Miniatures - but if the cardboard counters were very high quality and they are very nice prints with a nice finish then I could see using something like that.  I have seen that some people make tokens using a rubber base with card stock on top of that and then like a clear rubber type epoxy sticker over the top of them that look nice for like flat tokens and they looked pretty nice.  Which might work okay for infantry, tanks, battle armor or etc... 

I think I would be unlikely to use cardboard counters though in most cases.   

My final answer would be 80% likely Miniatures in most cases and in rare situations 20% chance that I would be open to counters. 

I hope my feedback serves useful. 

~Keegan

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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #8 on: 24 July 2013, 13:20:03 »
I'll use whatever is on hand. I play to have fun. I'm not going to turn anyone away from the table just because of a lack of metal (or dice, or prior knowledge...). Counters were good enough when I started playing over 20 years ago, and I still think they are acceptable.

I also can't paint worth a flip, and aside from occasional WYSIWYG induced splurges, I use most of my mad money on the manuals and pdfs.

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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #9 on: 24 July 2013, 13:34:27 »
I play on terrain with miniatures rules; minis are the only way I'll go.
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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #10 on: 24 July 2013, 13:37:56 »
THe only mini's I have are ones that I won at GENCON in the bloodright tourney or received as gifts.  I have made my own maps for years and play primarily on 1/2 inch hex maps with cardboard counters.  I find this far easier to follow (just a unit # and a facing arrow) than a proxy mini that I always confuse (i.e. WHat's the Atlas supposed to be THIS time?)

, and 1) I can't afford mini's in bulk and 2) I suck at painting.
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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #11 on: 24 July 2013, 13:45:08 »
Back when I first started playing our game store didn't carry many B-tech mini's so we would just go down to kinko's and have them photocopy the pics from the tro's and shrink them down to about 2 inches tall on posterboard. Cut them out, color them to your fav unit and glue onto a cardboard hex base and let the dice roll. Had tones of fun with them that way.

So basically if it kept the MSRP of a intro box set down to a very affordable level I say 'YES!' Plus it may be a good way to draw in the board game crowd. After a few games you decide what units you really like to play with and can order those mini's instead of having a bunch of plastic ones half of which are units you might never use (i'm looking at you Assassin... ;)).

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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #12 on: 24 July 2013, 13:45:53 »
I have so many minis, it's unrealistic to expect to play with counters. However, when I started, I'd play with whatever was handy. We'd actually draw custom units on graph paper, cut them out, and fold them over the old second ed. stands. So I voted for "Minis, with counters as a last resort.", 'cause y'know, whatever gets you into the game.

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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #13 on: 24 July 2013, 14:03:36 »

Prefer miniatures but counters will do in a pinch, or if in a setting where minis aren't as good an option.

I've managed to accrue enough minis over the years to make it where if I don't have it , I have something that can proxy.
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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #14 on: 24 July 2013, 14:12:32 »
I tend to use miniatures wherever possible (proxying if needed, though my collection has reached a point where I don't have to do much of that anymore)... however, I do prefer counters for buildings, surprisingly. It's easier to be able to flip it over to show rubble if it's destroyed, and right there on the counter it says how high it is and its classification (light, hardened, etc.). Nice and easy.

So, 'both' would be my best answer, in a nutshell, depending on the situation.
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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #15 on: 24 July 2013, 14:19:50 »
Miniatures only for me;  I'll bring my own though I won't be snotty towards someone who doesn't bring miniatures or only has counters.

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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #16 on: 24 July 2013, 14:28:40 »
Mini's only for me, I started my gaming hobby with plastic army men (over 40 years ago now), played historicals with mini's and the same with Battletech, don't care if they are metal or plastic as long as they are minis.

FawcettE

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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #17 on: 24 July 2013, 15:37:59 »
I prefer Counters  O0
to be honest, I like to play with both but see it practically:
I can carry more of my battle-terrain with me while folded. To Cons, to friends, to open events. 3D is unpractical for transporting ... and creating new terrain & tools too.
I'd like to use 3D for reason of scaling, but since it would take the equivalent of 4 hexes (!) to simulate 30 meters on 3D (don't mind the 690 meters for an ER-PPC  ::) ) 3D is my lesser favorite.

While it is VERY (!!!!) difficult to acquire the old Map-Set-Compilations these days, I see more of potential in them. I can create, transport and battle way easier than I could do wih 3D-Terrain. While a lot of stuff in Battletech HAS to be abstract, I honestly can live with an topview of the battleground, ... the commander's view  >:D.
Another argument for paper and tiles is the easier replication of scenarios and campaigns. If a friend of mine has a room of his apartment alone for 3D-Terrain --> I have not. If he builds a damn good looking world ... he cannot take it easily out of his house nor could I replicate his work for use in my household.

That said, I much regret the seemingly very low support for paper-battlegrounds already seen for years now (couldn't it at least be co-existing with 3D ???). It makes recruiting friends to play Battletech much (!!) more difficult for me.
And I deeply miss a thing that annoyed me in the very start , 15 years ago ... but what turned out I think to be one of the main strengths of Battletech --> the way of the Hex  O0 !

Please consider supporting both, 3D and paper-Battlegrounds ... and would it be alone for reason that not all of us are professional mini-painters and terrain-sculpters ...  }:)

EDIT: As an example ... how many Rattler Mobile Fortresses, how many Brian Castles or different Dropships for ground use will be build by fans all over the world in 3D ?? I don't expect many ...  8) ... and owning over 500 Miniatures for me it isn't about buying too few miniatures  ;)
« Last Edit: 24 July 2013, 16:59:29 by FawcettE »

BrokenMnemonic

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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #18 on: 24 July 2013, 15:45:45 »
I started out playing BattleTech with the plastic minis from the box set (3rd ed?) and the Reinforcements counters. I used the minis if those 'Mechs were in the game, otherwise, I used the counters. I bought another couple of Reinforcements box sets to give me more counters. I'll still play that way quite happily, and I feel under no pressure whatsoever to go out and buy more minis - in fact, I think the last minis I bought for the sake of buying minis I found in a Virgin game store on clearance in 1996. I love the minis in the current box set because they give me more minis, but I don't have the money to buy much these days, and I'd rather buy new books than more minis. I enjoy seeing games where other people play using minis, and I like painting things, but I love counters.

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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #19 on: 24 July 2013, 16:03:44 »
Minis and counters. Im an openminded player and when we play Alpha-Strike, we ussually proxy one mini with another  of the same weight class.
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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #20 on: 24 July 2013, 16:16:46 »
I've lost all my minis a few months ago, but I would prefer minis.

Minis that are properly scaled for a hex and to each other would be better than what exists now. But then it's impossible to make something to scale without knowing how big it's supposed to be if it was real.

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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #21 on: 24 July 2013, 16:58:02 »
I started with the 2nd Ed. cutout cardboard counters, and they are just fine. They certainly look much better than any miniature I ever tried to paint or assemble. I'm just not a miniatures guy.

It's not that I dislike minis; I got a fair number (with excellent paint jobs) from my brother, classic unseens mostly. But they're too precious to me to actually use them on the playing table. Cardboard cutouts, bottle caps, model tanks and toy soldiers all the way for me!
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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #22 on: 24 July 2013, 18:11:08 »
I answered rarely. And I mean very rare. Normally, 80% of my games are on terrain, including hexed terrain. I have a lot of miniatures, and I believe any miniature, even proxying for a completely different chassis, is better than a counter.  Give no other option, and no way to play without using counter, I'd use a counter, but I'd rather restructure the game if at all possible to fit the available number of miniatures.

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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #23 on: 24 July 2013, 18:18:16 »
I went with occasionally because while I do prefer minis, I would rather leave them off the field to avoid confusion if it comes down to it.  For example, if I need to proxy a Phoenix Hawk in a 3025-era game I would rather use a token than a Wasp mini, however I would still prefer to use something like a Dire Wolf mini as an obvious proxy.


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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #24 on: 24 July 2013, 21:06:40 »
Minis only. I've used the miniature rules for Battletech for at least ten years very, very rarely playing using hex maps.

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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #25 on: 24 July 2013, 21:36:22 »
Love using minis!  Love playing 3D.  [img] :) :) :) :)


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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #26 on: 25 July 2013, 03:10:17 »
Counters, not only do mini's cost a lot more (Counters could quite likely be free) IWM might not make the 'Mech or vehicle I want to use meaning that the whole mini's thing is kinda pointless, plus counters are better if you want to use multiple of a single model (Just put #1, #2 on the counters)

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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #27 on: 25 July 2013, 03:58:08 »
A combination of finances, toddlers, storage space, and incompetence at painting mean that I'm always happy to use counters or tokens in lieu of a mini. I would even be happy to use them in a terrain set up, assuming a set height above the token for any given unit type.

Heck, if you guys ever published cardboard counters (semi-generic stuff for any era, any faction, any TO&E) for use in large scale Battleforce campaigns, with the production quality of the hex pack tiles, I'd be waving a fistful of cash at you as soon as you'd take it off me.

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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #28 on: 25 July 2013, 10:32:27 »
I use both all the time.

If I run out of minis for say Hunchbacks, I got the stand up counters I have from various Reinforcements boxes and the 2nd and 4th edition box set and various other products.

Mini's look great, but sometimes I just don't have enough of a particular mech for a large game, so out come the cardboard stand-ups. Doesn't bother me one bit. That is what they are there for isn't it?

I'd love to see new stand ups available again, but that potential product would have to pass the obvious tests. "Is it worth the money to do and will it sell?"
I asked Randall about this years ago and the answer was pretty much along the lines of "The previous Reinforcement sets did not sell well so it's just not worth pursuing again".

But we are in the digital age now so maybe there is reduced risk for this kind of product going that route.
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Re: July-August 2013 Poll: Counters, Minis, or Both?
« Reply #29 on: 25 July 2013, 11:21:47 »
I voted 'Occasionally'.  I started with the original BattleDroids and spent most of the 80s and 90s playing BTech with cardboard standup mechs and flat square vehicles.  In fact, right now, the only mech minis I've got are 2 sets from the introductory boxed sets.  Since I've gotten back into mini painting I'll be getting more, but I'm more than comfortable with counters and would love to see a new official line of quality standups (for mechs) and flat counters (for vees). 

As others have pointed out, the ease of transport (for cons) and the lower 'entry cost' are pretty strong advantages.
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