Author Topic: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser  (Read 21083 times)

Jellico

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WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« on: 28 December 2013, 17:31:20 »
Cruiser-class Cruiser, Field Report 2765:DC


The Cruiser-class cruiser comes to us from a throwaway line in the Star League sourcebook. These were very early hegemony cruisers that took part in James McKenna’s “persuasion campaigns”. The actual origin of the Cruiser-class goes back well before then. The original concept dates to the 22nd century as a combat unit based around nuclear warfare in space. Actual combat realities in the 24th century made the limitations of this combat style apparent, but this wouldn’t be immediately apparent. However the early 24th century was a period of experimentation as the Hegemony navy found its feet so the Cruisers saw production.

At 500,000 tons the Cruiser is small by what we understand a cruiser to be. Even the contemporary Dar-class LIGHT cruiser was 680,000 tons as was the Lola-class destroyer. Despite its small size the Cruiser packed a lot of firepower. The NAC bays make it quite comparable to the Dart. The Dart has more armour, but the Cruiser’s capital missiles make critical hits far more likely. The capital missiles probably give us the reason for the Cruiser’s existence. They far outrange the Dreadnought’s light AC AA batteries. While aerospace fighters were not the dominant force they are now, they existed as did combat small craft. It is also interesting to note that the Quixote offering very similar capabilities in a more capable package was introduced in 2350 with the last Cruiser being decommissioned by 2400. Coincidence?
Besides tactical obsolescence the Cruiser suffered from some unplanned for ergonomic problems. Most notably the bow mounted cargo bays and flight deck meant that the Cruiser was vulnerable to large changes in its centre of gravity, sometimes unpredictably. 
Oh, and the Cruiser was ugly.
Retired by the Hegemony, the Cruiser was a convenient buy for the Great Houses. We have no idea of numbers but at least one ended up in the service of the Draconis Combine. We have to assume some made it through to the Reunification War at least, but it is notable that the WarShip poor Capellan Confederation wasn’t operating any in 2765.

How do we use a Cruiser? Despite its heavy missile battery the Beercan Battleship stacks up remarkably well as a straight broadside fighter. In straight combat terms it is superior to a Sovetski Soyuz though the later heavy cruiser was more focused on its docking collars. Realistically the Cruiser was comparable to the high end destroyers and frigates. The single 10,000 ton capacity DropShuttle Bay really shows its biggest limitation. A lack of supporting units. The missile bays offer some interesting tactical options, though the 10 reloads are a little lacking if one wants to try risky bearing shots outside 50 hexes. As an AA platform the Cruiser’s armour restricts its survivability, however its actual throw weight is better than an Avalon meaning the Cruiser is very useful as an escort platform.

Killing a Cruiser is all about shooting up the light armour. It is harder to kill than a Lola, but easier than late SLDF cruisers. This is one of the few ships I wouldn’t suggest sending fighters after. If you do have to use ASF, try and get the quick kill. The more time spend under those missile batteries the more fighters you will lose.

« Last Edit: 30 May 2014, 18:42:52 by Jellico »

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #1 on: 28 December 2013, 22:02:41 »
Thank you for this review, Jellico.  This is a curiousity and frankly a welcome addition.  I personally won't had suspected that the ship was a Missile Cruiser.  I'm kinda disappointed about the ruling about when the ship appeared, it really should came out when Dreadnought did.  :/

I'm not keen on the advanced Strat Ops rules, would the (metioned else thread) waypoint method of firing the missiles help this thing to nail targets little bit better?   

The Surface-to-orbit escort small craft could help fend off incoming attack craft maybe as good any.  Do we know of other attack craft during this era?
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mbear

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #2 on: 06 January 2014, 13:12:52 »
What about using this as an orbital artillery platform? Granted that's kind of a waste of a WarShip, but knowing one or more of these was permanently assigned to my SLDF division would warm the cockles of my heart.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #3 on: 06 January 2014, 15:02:41 »
I personally would like a squadron of them O0
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #4 on: 08 January 2014, 22:29:34 »
The Cruiser-class cruiser is a cruiser.

That was a fun ship to write-up, more for the fluff than anything. It's a shame the introduction date was set in 2325 instead of 2300.
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mbear

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #5 on: 09 January 2014, 07:38:07 »
The Cruiser-class cruiser is a cruiser.
Right, when it was introduced that was definitely true. But as time passes and it was superseded by new models, re-assigning them to SLDF ground divisions as orbital support platforms could be useful. (Of course I'm cheap and I want to get the maximum amount of work out of anything I buy, so that can affect my decisions as well.)

Evil thought: Refit some of these with ATACS systems as part of an SDS. (Obsolete? Nope. They're RetroTech!)
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #6 on: 09 January 2014, 08:28:53 »
I see it more as a mobile extermination platform. Load it up with nukes, use it to bomb Taurian worlds into submission.

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #7 on: 09 January 2014, 09:33:07 »
I'm not so sure about using them for ground support. Sure, they'd be great precision bombardment platforms, but they're also fragile and slow. If I weregoing to assign WarShips to ground units, I'd want stuff that's either zippy enough to quickly shift orbits(or climb to a higher orbit) when confronted by ground-based weapons or fighter flights, or tough enough to take what they can dish out until their current orbit takes them to safety. A Cruiser can do neither.
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #8 on: 09 January 2014, 12:05:43 »
You're not thinking nuke enough.^^ >:D
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #9 on: 09 January 2014, 12:10:30 »
I was responding to mbear, not VhenRa. Besides, anything can throw nukes around. If I'm going to use a Cruiser in an ortillery role, I'm going to take advantage of the increased accuracy of missiles in that role, and provide my ground forces with close support. Nothing says fun like using a Barracuda bay to clear out a pesky building full of infantry while leaving the next building over largely intact. }:)
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Alexander Knight

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #10 on: 09 January 2014, 12:46:45 »
Nothing says fun like using a Barracuda bay to clear out a pesky building full of infantry while leaving the next building over largely intact. }:)

Just because that's the rational response to Stone's Trackers.....

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #11 on: 09 January 2014, 13:25:57 »
Just because that's the rational response to Stone's Trackers.....

Funny thing is, as long as they're not in the open, a Barracuda won't be enough. ;D
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mbear

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #12 on: 09 January 2014, 15:14:34 »
I'm not so sure about using them for ground support. Sure, they'd be great precision bombardment platforms, but they're also fragile and slow. If I weregoing to assign WarShips to ground units, I'd want stuff that's either zippy enough to quickly shift orbits(or climb to a higher orbit) when confronted by ground-based weapons or fighter flights, or tough enough to take what they can dish out until their current orbit takes them to safety. A Cruiser can do neither.
That's a good point. My thinking was that the divisions would likely be supported by other SLDF Navy units, so the Cruiser would probably be protected from enemy forces.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #13 on: 09 January 2014, 15:36:35 »
There are dedicated Fire Support squadrons for this task. As a result, I'd prefer that all vessels in such squadrons be surivable in the lower orbitals.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #14 on: 14 February 2014, 04:11:00 »
I'm sorry Wierdo old boy, it's not often you miss the point quite so badly, but...you see, the intent isn't to use the Cruiser as an Ortillery support platform...its to use the Cruiser AS ortillery itself!    :D

*Insert maniacal laughter here!*

On second thought...how much damage would an inert 10,000 ton vaguely smallcraft shaped block of metal do on impact?!

I like this thing for three solid reasons really. Heavy dependence on solid munitions might suck, but it gives it character.  It's extremely simplistic shape, while being closer to what reality would demand, is so oddball as to stand out. And lastly, that ridiculously generic name HAD to have started to weigh heavily on it as time passed, right? I mean, it might have started out as such a general purpose cruiser that naming it as such sounded good, but when it eventually started to see destroyers and frigates catching up or surpassing it, how ere you going to re-designate it then?!

"Well, sir, we are expecting reinforcements soon, including two Cruiser class destroyers...I mean...wait, let me go look that one up to be sure I have it right."

The only thing better would have been a 100 years or so younger class of destroyer called the Destroyer, and packing mid range cruiser firepower and armor instead, just to further muddy the waters!

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #15 on: 27 October 2014, 16:58:50 »
And lastly, that ridiculously generic name HAD to have started to weigh heavily on it as time passed, right? I mean, it might have started out as such a general purpose cruiser that naming it as such sounded good, but when it eventually started to see destroyers and frigates catching up or surpassing it, how ere you going to re-designate it then?!

Thread Necro!!!!

Concerning the name of the Cruiser-class Cruiser, I was reading up on some older ship names a few days/weeks ago, and low and behold, what did I find?

HMS Cruizer (sometimes HMS Cruiser)!

Between the early 1700's and the early 1900's, there were 10 different Royal Navy ships named HMS Cruizer and 1 named HMS Cruiser...these vessels were mostly sloops, although there were a couple cutters and sixth rates in there as well...two of these were even the class vessels for two different classes of sloops and brig-sloops (the latter had 110 vessels of the class built!)...

Guess the name actually has a lot of history for a warship name...

Ruger
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #16 on: 27 October 2014, 20:56:02 »
I personally would like a squadron of them O0
wouldn't that be called a six-pack?

Intermittent_Coherence

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #17 on: 27 October 2014, 22:56:44 »
Thread Necro!!!!

Concerning the name of the Cruiser-class Cruiser, I was reading up on some older ship names a few days/weeks ago, and low and behold, what did I find?

HMS Cruizer (sometimes HMS Cruiser)!

Between the early 1700's and the early 1900's, there were 10 different Royal Navy ships named HMS Cruizer and 1 named HMS Cruiser...these vessels were mostly sloops, although there were a couple cutters and sixth rates in there as well...two of these were even the class vessels for two different classes of sloops and brig-sloops (the latter had 110 vessels of the class built!)...

Guess the name actually has a lot of history for a warship name...

Ruger

Kinda like the Dreadnought that way.

Phobos

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #18 on: 27 October 2014, 22:59:00 »

Oh, and the Cruiser was ugly.


What?? A giant garbage bin in space can be nothing less than an absolute thing of beauty.

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #19 on: 28 October 2014, 06:26:52 »
A ship so nice, they named it twice.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #20 on: 24 May 2017, 19:10:14 »
So, I'm not aware of any beer kegs small enough, so any recommendations for a mini for the Cruiser class? I didn't see one on IWM's site.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #21 on: 24 May 2017, 19:31:17 »
So, I'm not aware of any beer kegs small enough, so any recommendations for a mini for the Cruiser class? I didn't see one on IWM's site.

Maybe a keg miniature scaled for a dollhouse?  ;)
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #22 on: 24 May 2017, 20:23:51 »
Maybe a keg miniature scaled for a dollhouse?  ;)

That...just might work:

https://www.mountainminiatures.com/1-scale-miniature-silver-beer-keg.htm

Also, anyone notice the Cruiser class has room for 500 steerage passengers in addition to a complement of marines?  That's kind of a lot.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #23 on: 24 May 2017, 21:49:07 »
I don't think it as being ugly. Mike Plog really did a fine job making this thing. 
I do wish there was miniature of it available.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #24 on: 24 May 2017, 22:09:41 »
Seeing this pop up again got me thinking about using a Cruiser for suppressing rebellion. Turn the dropshuttle bay into hangar space for a fleet of small craft, say, big enough to put a small assault force on the ground at a trouble spot. Support them with (reasonably) precision missile fire against hard targets. The ship even already has extra space for five hundred troops.

She missed her calling.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #25 on: 24 May 2017, 22:53:41 »
I'm not convinced that wasn't intentional. The Outer Reaches Rebellion was the most recent major conflict(aside from the Terran Alliance Civil War) when the Cruisers were designed. Using small craft to rapidly deploy a company or so marines for a beachhead, followed up by a battalion or two of regular army troops with orbital support sounds like a pretty solid strategy for quickly bringing a settlement(or a given city on a major world) under control. I'll admit that we know next to nothing about the nature of fighting in that war, but I'm still fairly certain that kind of capability would have been invaluable then.

Probably a pretty common thing during the Hegemony's early campaigns of reconquest.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #26 on: 24 May 2017, 23:20:19 »
The Terran Alliance does appear to have been going for a one-ship task force when they designed the base design, don't they?
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #27 on: 25 May 2017, 00:49:00 »
Seeing this pop up again got me thinking about using a Cruiser for suppressing rebellion. Turn the dropshuttle bay into hangar space for a fleet of small craft, say, big enough to put a small assault force on the ground at a trouble spot. Support them with (reasonably) precision missile fire against hard targets. The ship even already has extra space for five hundred troops.

She missed her calling.
we should dub said variant the Sulaco class.  O0

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #28 on: 25 May 2017, 06:49:59 »
Honestly, I'm just surprised Dreadnought got pushed through first, as the Cruiser looks so much more like what a first WarShip should look like. My guess is that the Dreadnoughts were McKenna's pet project. Either that or someone akin to Moff Tarkin was doing Terran planning, with the Dreadnoughts meant to discourage uprisings primarily through fear, with Cruisers getting the job of putting down the revolts that happened anyway. Too bad the Outer Reaches Rebellion beat them to the punch.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #29 on: 25 May 2017, 09:38:12 »
Honestly, I'm just surprised Dreadnought got pushed through first, as the Cruiser looks so much more like what a first WarShip should look like. My guess is that the Dreadnoughts were McKenna's pet project. Either that or someone akin to Moff Tarkin was doing Terran planning, with the Dreadnoughts meant to discourage uprisings primarily through fear, with Cruisers getting the job of putting down the revolts that happened anyway. Too bad the Outer Reaches Rebellion beat them to the punch.

I got the impression both were probably true: the Dreadnought was certainly a scary beast, and I was always under the impression that it was rammed through procurement on the force of McKenna's personality, which implied to me he was probably already a powerful political force before he turned his ship's guns planetside.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #30 on: 26 May 2017, 16:06:00 »
Great article.  I love the keg-like look of the Cruiser, it's a simple reminder that in space ships need not be streamlined like vehicles built to travel in the ocean or in the air. 
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ckosacranoid

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #31 on: 26 May 2017, 16:45:22 »
i can see someone using the ship with a mini kegger for the ship on the table since it looks like it would be funny to put a few down for a group to go agaist.

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #32 on: 26 May 2017, 20:40:55 »
Fun fact: it occurs to me that the Behemoth class DropShip is roughly the same length as a Cruiser class (250 meters to 243 meters), and while one's a cylinder and the other's an egg, the Cruiser class doesn't have five times the volume of the Behemoth class.  The Cruiser is also significantly shorter than nearly any other JumpShip or WarShip published so far.  It's significantly denser than any of the other Battletech large spacecraft, which is kind of trippy.v
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #33 on: 26 May 2017, 21:04:16 »
I wish we knew what was being used from the Cruiser and it's other ship at the time.

I know that they've had gotten away from Primitive Dropships and JumpShips by the time the Cruiser was around.
However it does have those DropShuttle, there isn't alot we know about them.   Nothing under 5k anyways.  #P
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #34 on: 26 May 2017, 22:09:47 »
I wish we knew what was being used from the Cruiser and it's other ship at the time.

I know that they've had gotten away from Primitive Dropships and JumpShips by the time the Cruiser was around.
However it does have those DropShuttle, there isn't alot we know about them.   Nothing under 5k anyways.  #P

The Saturn patrol ship had been around for a while, and would work as a supplemental assault/patrol craft.  The Combine released the original Vulture in 2312, which was probably similar enough to contemporary transport DropShuttles from other states to use it as a stand-in.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #35 on: 26 May 2017, 22:27:33 »
I got the impression both were probably true: the Dreadnought was certainly a scary beast, and I was always under the impression that it was rammed through procurement on the force of McKenna's personality, which implied to me he was probably already a powerful political force before he turned his ship's guns planetside.

That interview of James McKenna back in SLSB honestly is so damned loaded, I get the feeling he was planning his coup already.

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #36 on: 27 May 2017, 03:39:39 »
That interview of James McKenna back in SLSB honestly is so damned loaded, I get the feeling he was planning his coup already.

What interview or what book?
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #37 on: 27 May 2017, 04:15:00 »
The Saturn patrol ship had been around for a while, and would work as a supplemental assault/patrol craft.
The Saturn is more like a police/customs ship.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #38 on: 27 May 2017, 06:04:03 »
What interview or what book?

He gives an interview to Good Morning Canada in 2313, in a side-note in the original Star League Sourcebook.

It ends with.

Quote
Deans: How do you balance your personal beliefs with your duty to the Alliance?
McKenna: It isn't easy, and there are times when I seriously consider chucking all this for the Canadian wilderness.
Deans: What keeps you here, then?
McKenna: I think the main reason for sticking around in case fate steps in to give me and these ships an opportunity for action, or to do something that would improve life back on Terra and the other Alliance worlds.
Deans: What would you do, given this opportunity?
McKenna: Now that depends on the situation, don't you think?
« Last Edit: 27 May 2017, 06:05:42 by VhenRa »

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #39 on: 27 May 2017, 06:47:29 »
ooh I'll have to find that interview, thank you :) Also great write up on the space keg. 
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #40 on: 27 May 2017, 07:53:17 »
And they say the "FOX" is ugly?? I think the Cruiser class is along that same lines.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #41 on: 27 May 2017, 08:30:24 »
She's not ugly so much as just...well..keg.  She has a dumpy kind of charm to her, to the point that she probably has a tuba playing when ever she moves.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #42 on: 27 May 2017, 09:16:52 »
And they say the "FOX" is ugly?? I think the Cruiser class is along that same lines.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #43 on: 27 May 2017, 09:35:47 »
Quote from: Maingunnery
Utilitarian Space Keg vs Badminton Birdie

Now the real trip? Despite being less than half the mass of the Cruiser, the Fox is nearly twice as long.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #44 on: 27 May 2017, 17:07:11 »
Great article.  I love the keg-like look of the Cruiser, it's a simple reminder that in space ships need not be streamlined like vehicles built to travel in the ocean or in the air.
They're "long" because that's the nature of the KF drive core which is a massive rod  :D
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #45 on: 28 May 2017, 13:27:47 »
  I honestly don't pay attention to the canon dimensions of warships.  At stated volumes and masses the things are zeppelins covered in tinfoil.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #46 on: 28 May 2017, 13:35:43 »
Well, maybe there are. Except the beer keg. Which, as we've established by now, is a beer keg. 8)
Has anyone actually ever calculated which dimensions/weight the ships should have? Isn't that the same case as an ASF's exhaust gasses exceeding lightspeed?
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #47 on: 28 May 2017, 13:45:42 »
Well, maybe there are. Except the beer keg. Which, as we've established by now, is a beer keg. 8)
Has anyone actually ever calculated which dimensions/weight the ships should have? Isn't that the same case as an ASF's exhaust gasses exceeding lightspeed?

I think it was Cray and I who proposed during the StratOps editing process to cut all WarShip lengths to a third what they are published, but that then created the potential issue of having to cut DropShip lengths, too, after which the worry was how much retconning would be needed, after which it was decided that way led to madness, and far too much retconjuration.

For your home game, a simple option would be going something comparable to the density of water, somewhere in the ballpark of 1000 kg/m^3 as a ballpark limit, since real-life "wet" ships have to be at least slightly less dense not to sink, then factor in their fuel tonnage at 70 kg/m^3, since liquid hydrogen isn't very dense.
« Last Edit: 28 May 2017, 13:56:29 by Giovanni Blasini »
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #48 on: 28 May 2017, 15:51:28 »
  I did some rough estimates of ship masses just to see how dense some Btech warships are.  I also put an illustration showing an Aegis at canon size compared to it at tank and naval ship densities.  I'm thinking they could either be built like Tanks since they don't need to be buoyant or like naval ships if they need to be roomy enough for light but bulky equipment and crew quarters. 

  Even at only 243 meters in length the Cruiser has about the same density as most Btech ships.  It looks tiny but that compact frame holds a lot of volume. 

Cruiser
Weight: 500,000 tons
Volume (est.): 4,294,164 m^3
Density: 116 kg/m^3

Aegis
Weight: 750,000 tons
Volume (est.): 9,639,000 m^3
Density: 78 kg/m^3

Nimitz
Weight: 97,000 tons
Volume (est.): 415,000 m^3
Density: 233 kg/m^3

Abrams
Weight: 62 tons
Volume (est.): 51 m^3
Density: 1,208 kg/m^3
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #49 on: 28 May 2017, 15:57:33 »
Oops, I forgot to include the Cruiser :D.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #50 on: 28 May 2017, 17:18:13 »
Yeah, that's about what I came up with, too.  It's still low density, but having to store 5000 tons of liquid hydrogen while also having space for up to 10,000 tons of DropShuttle, which includes potentially 5,000 ton aerodynes, will do that, and it's also significantly more dense than most canon WarShips.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #51 on: 28 May 2017, 17:55:20 »

Just a few thoughts about salvaging a Cruiser.

1. Where are we likely to find such derelicts?
2. How useful would it be?
3. What would be needed to make it more useful in current era?
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #52 on: 28 May 2017, 18:11:56 »
Draconis Combine were using them during the early Succession Wars but there no details of their actions. I do think i remember reading in passing of one being deployed.  It's mentioned in the Field Manual 2765 Draconis Combine they had couple.  1st Succession Source book doesn't mentioned them in use thou. It's likely the few Cruiser-Class ships they did have properly died in the background or on in the that big fleet engagement with the Davions at Cholame in 2788ish.
« Last Edit: 28 May 2017, 18:19:33 by Wrangler »
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #53 on: 28 May 2017, 19:05:02 »
The Cruiser class is also one of those classes where even the Houses were on their way to dumping them by the 28th Century.  They sound ungainly to fly, the supply of DropShuttles has probably nearly dried up, leaving them inconvenient compared to, say, a 2372 Aegis.  With how quickly they were rushed out of service, I suspect many were in mothballs or scrapped before the 28th Century.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #54 on: 28 May 2017, 19:24:27 »
The Cruiser class is also one of those classes where even the Houses were on their way to dumping them by the 28th Century.  They sound ungainly to fly, the supply of DropShuttles has probably nearly dried up, leaving them inconvenient compared to, say, a 2372 Aegis.  With how quickly they were rushed out of service, I suspect many were in mothballs or scrapped before the 28th Century.
The combine was desperate for warships, They were stuck only build destroyer size Warships.  They only had handful of old Hegemony Ships to fill in the gaps in their fleet's capital ship ranks.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #55 on: 29 May 2017, 01:23:24 »
Just a few thoughts about salvaging a Cruiser.

1. Where are we likely to find such derelicts?
2. How useful would it be?
3. What would be needed to make it more useful in current era?

1.  The best possible one would be a misjumpped vessel just drifting dead in space, little more than a tomb for her crew.  Finding one left over from a battle would probably result in maybe a large chunk of it being found, or a mangled wreck thats little value more than scrap.

2.  Depends on the period and setting.  If she was say in Dragon Cat's universe she'd be a useful oddity if found by a house, or an important asset if located by one of the Periphery powers.  If she was found during the succession war she could be a potential treasure trove.  Until Comstar come along and wreck it all A TOTALLY UNFORSEEN ACCIDENT. SIMPLY HIGHLIGHTING THE DANGER OR WORKING ON MACHINERY YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND.  Or in the modern era where WarShips are basically extinct (BOO! HISS!!) then if she can be reparied, hugely important.

3.  In reality not much would be needed to make her more useful.  The big six gun batteries for the NAC-10s mean she can bracket fire and she's got  lots of missiles.  Change the dropshuttle hangars into fighter bays or shuttle bays/cargo to help with the ships fluff balance issues, maybe add a dropship collar and some AMS and you'd be fine.
« Last Edit: 29 May 2017, 02:06:15 by marauder648 »
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #56 on: 29 May 2017, 01:35:32 »
I was going to say that would be an insane number of fighters. Then I realizes it's only 73 fighter bays.  That's actually a reasonable number.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #57 on: 29 May 2017, 02:01:15 »
I was going to say that would be an insane number of fighters. Then I realizes it's only 73 fighter bays.  That's actually a reasonable number.

i'd say call it 72 bays. 12 squadrons is a fairly respectable compliment. though would the cruiser have enough fuel/cargo to sustain that many fighters for a campaign?

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #58 on: 29 May 2017, 02:07:28 »
How about replacing two of the shuttle bays with fighters and keeping the 3rd for cargo space or as dedicated supplies for the fighter group?
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #59 on: 29 May 2017, 02:30:14 »
Ship still has over 90 kilotons of cargo. Should be fine.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #60 on: 29 May 2017, 02:36:47 »
True but this could also be used as a fluff way to help rebalance their centre of gravity on the ship so they don't pitch and yaw.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #61 on: 29 May 2017, 02:37:11 »
Ship still has over 90 kilotons of cargo. Should be fine.


Yes but for crew entertainment there is the 1:1 scale Nimitz class carrier in that cargo space
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #62 on: 29 May 2017, 02:39:25 »

Yes but for crew entertainment there is the 1:1 scale Nimitz class carrier in that cargo space

With only the minor problem that the bow and stern are poking out of the front and back of the Cruiser :p  It makes exploring the stern of the Nimitz more challenging when the engines are active but its good training for the crew!
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #63 on: 29 May 2017, 02:42:47 »
With only the minor problem that the bow and stern are poking out of the front and back of the Cruiser :p  It makes exploring the stern of the Nimitz more challenging when the engines are active but its good training for the crew!


Fold the Nimitz?


I am sorry for the thread derailing but it was intended to show the ridiculous scale of the cargo bays
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #64 on: 29 May 2017, 02:48:59 »
[Sov Soy] *eyes the Cruiser before snorting* Pathetic...

With the  Soy you could loose a bloody super-tanker or the RMS Queen Victoria in her cargo bay :p 
« Last Edit: 29 May 2017, 02:53:58 by marauder648 »
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #65 on: 29 May 2017, 03:44:55 »
Keep in mind the Cruiser class had to be able to berth a pair of DropShuttles that could easily reach 75+ meters in length, with a wingspan to factor on top of that for aerodynes.  Surprisingly, the DropShuttles are undoubtedly more dense than most aircraft: the 747-400, for example, is 54 meters long with a 60 meter wingspan, more or less, and has a max takeoff of 413 tons (or more like 448 tons for a 747-8).  That will take up a lot of volume.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #66 on: 29 May 2017, 06:06:26 »
Do we have any information about drop shuttles? Like a TRO with one in them or something?
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #67 on: 29 May 2017, 07:50:24 »
Do we have any information about drop shuttles? Like a TRO with one in them or something?
Nothing. The DropShuttle was an old name for DropShip.  The jest from IO was that their DropShips that are 5k and less in tonnage. There really isn't any ships of size category that meets really in that early timeline that can be used for them.   There is the small craft like the early Ares small craft but they weren't true DropShips and don't use DropShuttle Bays.  I'd imagine that the DRoST were suppose to be in DropShuttles but i guess a snafu caused them to be heavier than 5k limit thus unusable in a DropShuttle bay.  Technically their the Saturn Class Patrol Ship (Primitive DropShip) and Mech transport Black Eagle Class, the Black Eagle DropShips can fit in the bays due to their weight, but they were introduced after the fact the DropShuttle Bays were being phased out. There roughly only 4 primitive Dropship design I known of with additional early primitive variants that aren't fleshed out.

I remember someone telling me only aerodyne type Dropships could not dock with a DropShuttle bay which i think isn't true since it's not in the rules anywhere i could find that said that.
« Last Edit: 30 May 2017, 05:43:03 by Wrangler »
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #68 on: 29 May 2017, 11:54:07 »
Based on the invention date of the standard docking hardpoint and KF boom, as well as fluff description and vessel mass (5000 ton limit), we have the following known DropShuttles:

Saturn Patrol Ship
Vulture
Manatee
Black Eagle
DroST (I? IIa?)

Yes, the DroST series is 5300 tons, but Welshman noted in the JSotM: Aquilla thread that, eventually they'll get around to errata fixing it so the pre-KF boom version is 5000 tons.
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #69 on: 29 May 2017, 12:02:44 »
1.  The best possible one would be a misjumpped vessel just drifting dead in space, little more than a tomb for her crew.  Finding one left over from a battle would probably result in maybe a large chunk of it being found, or a mangled wreck thats little value more than scrap.
- What about an abandoned ship? She is completely ammo dependent and there is plenty of way to get off the ship.
- Another option could be a sickness or bio-weapon (as it transported a lot of ground troops), then any surviving crew could have left the ship in space with all rooms open to space to allow the disease to die out and the ship to be recovered.


Quote
3.  In reality not much would be needed to make her more useful.  The big six gun batteries for the NAC-10s mean she can bracket fire and she's got  lots of missiles.  Change the dropshuttle hangars into fighter bays or shuttle bays/cargo to help with the ships fluff balance issues, maybe add a dropship collar and some AMS and you'd be fine.
That would be the most easiest way to make it combat ready.

For further thoughts, here is a workshop thread:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57675.0
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #70 on: 29 May 2017, 13:24:37 »
Could someone double-check the math on the Cruiser class? I'm coming up over 50 kilotons short, and I'm wondering if it ended up with a bunch of NAC/10 bays cut/paste into arcs it shouldn't have them.
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Vition2

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #71 on: 29 May 2017, 15:51:11 »
I tossed it into HMA and the result is even worse, I might need to do it by hand.  The end result is about 28.6 kt of cargo left over.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #72 on: 29 May 2017, 22:07:37 »
Posted to Errata:

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=35369.msg1327076#msg1327076

While I presented the option of revamping weapons, SI, etc. to get back cargo, reducing cargo seems the easiest way to go.
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Hammerpilot IIC

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #73 on: 12 June 2017, 14:18:54 »
What?? A giant garbage bin in space can be nothing less than an absolute thing of beauty.

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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #74 on: 12 June 2017, 14:26:16 »
Holy crap, it really is, isn't it?
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Wrangler

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #75 on: 12 June 2017, 16:26:37 »
Holy crap, it really is, isn't it?

I'd love to see demotivational poster for that... ;D
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #76 on: 12 June 2017, 19:11:52 »
Going to have to modify the Urbie Pokemon one that has a progression from R2-D2 to Urbie to Imp to Overlord
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #77 on: 13 June 2017, 01:08:30 »
Well, you can always go up.
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Wrangler

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #78 on: 13 June 2017, 05:27:14 »
Here my stab at it.  I'm limited to what i can do. 
Originally i was going to do.
"This my cruiser short and stout, here my naval autocannon and this my missile spout."

Then i decided to go with this.  What do you guys think?  I still love the Cruiser, i just wish there was second variant.



Edit: grammar fix.  #P
« Last Edit: 13 June 2017, 06:46:36 by Wrangler »
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #79 on: 13 June 2017, 05:59:14 »
Well, someone had to make that joke. Again. So, pretty good.  8)
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #80 on: 13 June 2017, 10:27:46 »
I like it!
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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #81 on: 19 June 2017, 06:11:27 »
You forgot the other Son in the Battle-egg family

The Foxhound gunboat

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Re: WarShip of the Week: Cruiser
« Reply #82 on: 19 June 2017, 10:43:12 »
Sorry, not curvy enough.  ;)
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