Author Topic: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"  (Read 21541 times)

Dayton3

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Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« on: 20 February 2016, 14:31:22 »
Which mech designs that were once in production and general use have disappeared in the BT Universe?

As far as I know the original Mackie is the one mech design that is definitely no longer in use.    I seem to remember that the Shogun is down to only two mechs existing in the galaxy in operational condition and I think the Star League Era Spartan which as down to only about two dozen or so known examples prior to the Jihad and other unpleasantness is also about gone.

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #1 on: 20 February 2016, 14:37:16 »
The Shogun has made a resurgence in the Dark Age, thanks to the Sea Foxes producing two new variants as seen in the TRO 3150 NTNU section.  The SHG-3E is noted as being popular with mercenaries, and the Shogun C 2 has Ferro-Lamellor armor.

The Ymir fits the bill nicely.  As far as the MUL is concerned, the Rampage is also largely extinct.
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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #2 on: 20 February 2016, 14:40:06 »
Thanks to the New Dallas Core, some units formerly extinct now roam the Inner Sphere.  Even the primitive Mackie was hauled out of obscurity to shoot at the robes.


Your best bet is to use the MUL and search units by the faction 'exinct' and a specific availability era. For example, here are the units considered extinct during the Clan Invasion
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&Factions=3&AvailableEras=13


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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #3 on: 20 February 2016, 14:41:02 »
The Von Rhors is also long-dead, as is the Hector and the Alfar

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #4 on: 20 February 2016, 15:24:38 »
did some digging and found a list i had made of extinct chassis as of 3100 or so. It's mostly a collection of Age of War / first generation Clan / Word of Blake / Solaris VII

corrections/addendums appreciated

Alfar
Archangel
Battle Cobra (IS)
Blue Flame
Bombard
Cameroon
Copperhead
Coyotl
Crockett
Deva
Epimetheus
Exterminator
Falcon
Firefly
Fox
Gestalt
Grand Crusader
Grand Crusader II
Grigori
Gurkha
Hector
Initiate
Jackrabbit
Legacy
Liberator
Lightray
Lupus
Matar
Mackie
Malak
Mercury II
Minsk
Nexus
Nexus II
Omega
Onslaught
Paladin
Phoenix Hawk LAM
Porcupine
Preta
Prowler
Raijin
Raijin II
Rampage
Red Shift
Rifleman II
Rifleman III
Rising Star
Ronin
Scorpion LAM
Screamer LAM
Seraph
Shogun
Silver Fox
Sling
Spartan
Spatha (presumed)
Stag / Stag II
Stinger LAM
Storm Giant
Swordsman
Talos
Toyama
Vanquisher
Vision Quest
Volkh
Von Rohrs
Waneta LAM
Wasp LAM
Werewolf
White Flame
Wildfire
Woodsman
Ymir
Yurei LAM


There are also some on life support like the Mercury with a one or two extant variants in use like the Mercury (1) and Thorn (2). Some, as Scotty points out above, do not stay extinct into the mid 32nd century like the Shogun. I assume some additional mostly dead / all dead status-swapping will occur when the most current era is completely added to the MUL

« Last Edit: 21 February 2016, 18:17:48 by Sartris »

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #5 on: 20 February 2016, 16:29:58 »
The Lupus, Coyotl, and Woodsman are less "extinct" and more "obsolete". They were consigned to mothballs during the late 30th century. It's not confirmed but seems likely that most of the survivors would have been pulled out during the Wars of Reaving and expended then (and some of the mothballed Lupus were used to build Hellfires). There should still be a few chassis in the hands of dark caste as of 3100, either stolen during the designs' heyday or picked from the battlefield as salvage during/after the WoR. They'd be in about the same condition as most IS 'Mechs in the late 3rd succession war, though, because spare parts are almost nonexistent.
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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #6 on: 20 February 2016, 16:33:06 »
iirc the MUL's working definition of extinct isn't strictly "none left," but "not present in large enough numbers to make a significant showing in anyone's forces." This accommodates your Wars of Reaving scenario with a few working examples available to be pulled out of mothballs.

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cavingjan

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #7 on: 20 February 2016, 17:05:48 »
Extinct = none left

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #8 on: 20 February 2016, 17:59:20 »
Where's the Fox from? MUL has Snow Fox, Arctic Fox, Kit Fox (Uller), Silver Fox and Thunder Fox but no Fox Fox
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Nargrakhan

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #9 on: 20 February 2016, 18:40:53 »
Maybe it's too early to declare the WoB exclusive designs as truly extinct, until the final fate of the remaining Hidden Five and Shadow Divisions are revealed?

Those cybernetic robed boogie men could still be hiding under the interstellar bed.  :D

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #10 on: 20 February 2016, 19:20:46 »
Extinct does not mean permanently extinct. We have a lot of designs that go extinct to come back later. See the primitives as examples.

Nahuris

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #11 on: 20 February 2016, 19:37:21 »
Maybe it's too early to declare the WoB exclusive designs as truly extinct, until the final fate of the remaining Hidden Five and Shadow Divisions are revealed?

Those cybernetic robed boogie men could still be hiding under the interstellar bed.  :D

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #12 on: 20 February 2016, 19:46:22 »
Extinct = none left

That's a change, then. Our working definition when I was with the MUL team was "Extinct" = "Not enough left to be notable." The Mackie was extinct after the Amaris Civil War, but several were left around; I seem to recall two in the Clan Homeworlds and at least one in the Inner Sphere. The Phoenix Hawk Mk I is extinct, but similarly there is one in a museum. The Gladiator was extinct for centuries, but one was operating during the early days of the Jihad, before it was put back into limited production. The Shogun is effectively extinct during the Jihad, but we know of a bare handful operated by Wolf's Dragoons and Wannamaker's Widowmakers. Hell, the Shadow Hawk LAM - which was one of the very few units in recent history to be given hard (and extremely low) production numbers - might even turn up, given that one chassis disappeared.

There are only two "rarities" the MUL is concerned with. The first is "Unique," and denotes a singular name of a certain unit. The other is "Extinct," as discussed above. Neither means "only one" or "none left," however! While it's true that there is only one 'Mech named Yen-lo-Wang, its configuration could have been duplicated numerous times; indeed, Centurions armed with AC/20s are common enough to be mentioned in TR3025. "Unique" configurations of OmniMechs, like Daishi Widowmaker, can be - and are - used by anyone with the appropriate pods.

Best of all, you can ignore all of the above and do whatever you want in your own games. The MUL - like all of "canon" - is a guideline, not a straightjacket.
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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #13 on: 20 February 2016, 20:09:47 »
Ah, thanks Bosch. I knew I didn't imagine that

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #14 on: 20 February 2016, 20:11:03 »
There can always be the possibility of an exception or two, in a museum or maybe lost to all until it's found by luck.  The "it's your game" rule comes in to play.  But if you ask somebody for one the response will be laughter, disbelief or concerns about your sanity. 
It's extinct.

Except the Von Rohrs by developer edict :).  It's so extinct you are not allowed to even have a piece of one in your home game or ninjas will be dispatched.
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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #15 on: 20 February 2016, 20:35:22 »
Except the Von Rohrs by developer edict :).  It's so extinct you are not allowed to even have a piece of one in your home game or ninjas will be dispatched.

I notice you didn't say anything about spiritual successors, tho. :D

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #16 on: 20 February 2016, 20:40:22 »
Catalyst would never try to prevent people from using what they like, i suspect the Unique and Extinct classifications are meant more to prevent proliferation of those units in the official materials. so that we don't have offbrand Yen-Lo-Wang's being mass produced around the IS, or the Taurians suddenly having several regiment's worth of Toro's in a late succession war historical..

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #17 on: 20 February 2016, 21:49:30 »
Catalyst would never try to prevent people from using what they like, i suspect the Unique and Extinct classifications are meant more to prevent proliferation of those units in the official materials. so that we don't have offbrand Yen-Lo-Wang's being mass produced around the IS, or the Taurians suddenly having several regiment's worth of Toro's in a late succession war historical..

Developer guidance is part of it, sure (especially when it came to making up stuff like RATs), but a lot of it was just a simple extension of the faction availabilities.
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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #18 on: 21 February 2016, 03:08:50 »
did some digging and found a list i had made of extinct chassis as of 3100 or so. It's mostly a collection of Age of War / first generation Clan / Word of Blake / Solaris VII

corrections/addendums appreciated

Alfar
Archangel
Battle Cobra (IS)
Blue Flame
Bombard
Cameroon
Copperhead
Coyotl
Crockett
Deva
Epimetheus
Exterminator
Falcon
Firefly
Fox
Gestalt
Grand Crusader
Grand Crusader II
Grigori
Gurkha
Hector
Initiate
Jackrabbit
Legacy
Liberator
Lightray
Lupus
Matar
Mackie
Malak
Mercury II
Minsk
Nexus
Nexus II
Omega
Onslaught
Paladin
Phoenix Hawk LAM
Porcupine
Preta
Prowler
Raijin
Raijin II
Rampage
Red Shift
Rifleman II
Rifleman III
Rising Star
Ronin
Scorpion LAM
Screamer LAM
Seraph
Shogun
Silver Fox
Sling
Spartan
Spatha (presumed)
Stag / Stag II
Stinger LAM
Storm Giant
Talos
Toyama
Vanquisher
Vision Quest
Volkh
Von Rohrs
Waneta LAM
Werewolf
White Flame
Wildfire
Woodsman
Ymir
Yurei LAM


There are also some on life support like the Mercury with a one or two extant variants in use like the Mercury (1) and Thorn (2). Some, as Scotty points out above, do not stay extinct into the mid 32nd century like the Shogun. I assume some additional mostly dead / all dead status-swapping will occur when the most current era is completely added to the MUL
Swordsman?

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #19 on: 21 February 2016, 03:46:08 »
Swordsman?

i probably made the list before that volume of primitives was released. added.

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #20 on: 21 February 2016, 06:19:11 »
I am fairly certain there are Exterminators out there.  No CLPS/NullSig ones, but I seem to recall them getting an upgrade.  I am likely wrong, just going off of memory, and seeing a new variant somewhere, but can't exactly remember the where or when.
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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #21 on: 21 February 2016, 09:19:38 »
I am fairly certain there are Exterminators out there.  No CLPS/NullSig ones, but I seem to recall them getting an upgrade.  I am likely wrong, just going off of memory, and seeing a new variant somewhere, but can't exactly remember the where or when.

A handful - about 25 or so - were made during the Third Succession War, per TR3025R and 3039 (which mentions, but does not actually include, the 'Mech). They were not commercially successful.
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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #22 on: 21 February 2016, 10:46:40 »
I am fairly certain there are Exterminators out there.  No CLPS/NullSig ones, but I seem to recall them getting an upgrade.  I am likely wrong, just going off of memory, and seeing a new variant somewhere, but can't exactly remember the where or when.

The -5E and -5F were developed in 3060 and 3073, respectively for c3i Level IIs. The -6CS of 3079 had both the CLP shield and null sig. As the majority of WoB and ComStar-produced variants are listed as extinct post-jihad, it's not surprising that these are either. The others apparently were gone by 3200, per the MUL.

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #23 on: 21 February 2016, 11:46:00 »
Things with "limited" numbers in the fluff don't necessary stay rare or uncommon since they don't use that terminology in Battletech as far i can find.  Unique only thing i've seen that makes design stand out as far production vs customization.  MUL very blunt saying what era these designs are lingering around.  Not telling your their gone.

Only extinct designs are the one that don't appear in regular TROs nowadays.  Designs that appeared in say, Era Digest: Golden Century, has Clan design that long since gone.  Clan Wolverine designs from Interstellar Player books.  Primitive Mechs were resurrected designs during the Jihad as RetroTech units.

Many (if not most) of the ye olde TRO:2750 Designs which were suppose to be rare and extinct became regular designs to replace the unseens, example the Exterminator replacing the Wolverine.

I actually like Fan-Made Army Lists, which goes out it's way to state common/uncommon/rare/unique Mechs/vehicles/etc are.

The Combat Manuals seem to have a good listing who "common" units are available for mercenaries, hopefully the newer books will include doing this. It's best we have.

Hopefully something like that can be made on the MUL when time permits.

« Last Edit: 21 February 2016, 11:50:58 by Wrangler »
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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #24 on: 21 February 2016, 12:01:19 »
It would be nice but I'm not sure how practical it would be for the size of the MUL. The lists I have seen usually only have a small portions of the units in the MUL. Rarity needs to be tied to the unit, faction, and the era.

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #25 on: 21 February 2016, 12:17:12 »
While I won't say "never," anything more than "extinct" or "unique" is unlikely on the MUL. Again, this goes back to my days and may not be indicative of the current team's viewpoint, but we regarded it as too much effort for the wrong reasons. Such information is only of use as a straitjacket for games and fiction.

The very rough rarities listed in Combat Manual: Mercenaries are okay because the focus of the book is very narrow, and even the units noted as "rare" can still be taken one per company. Out of the hundreds of units listed, it's really neither a huge handicap nor a commentary on their actual in-universe numbers.
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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #26 on: 21 February 2016, 13:07:24 »
War of Reaving Supplemental, P.17 has a list of Clan Mechs that are no longer in production. Might want to add those to the list.
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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #27 on: 21 February 2016, 13:26:17 »
War of Reaving Supplemental, P.17 has a list of Clan Mechs that are no longer in production. Might want to add those to the list.

Eventually, though we've seen plenty of examples of inner sphere mechs that had their factories destroyed in the 29th century and still apparently have enough surviving examples to make faction lists into the 3100s. I imagine the Osteon and Cephalus will be kaput (currently listed as TBA for 3100+), but some of these chassis will continue to be produced in the inner sphere.

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #28 on: 21 February 2016, 14:20:31 »
That's a change, then. Our working definition when I was with the MUL team was "Extinct" = "Not enough left to be notable."

That's still the case. Extinct on the MUL means that there are no notable examples in operating condition amongst the forces of the Inner Sphere. However, because this is Battletech, there is always the possibility of -
  • A working example being found in a Star League or other cache somewhere
  • A local noble just so happening to have one in some backwater militia somewhere
  • An aspiring technician hauling a non-functioning chassis out of a scrap-yard and patching it together for a MechWarrior in desperate need of a ride
  • Etc,

Rather than tying players and GM's hands, the idea is simply to convey that an extinct machine is almost never seen on the battlefield. In a pick-up or scenario game, they should never be included without some serious thought. In a campaign, there should be a very good reason for why a MechWarrior has one. More than one should never be present in the same place at the same time ever.

War of Reaving Supplemental, P.17 has a list of Clan Mechs that are no longer in production. Might want to add those to the list.

Out of production is not the same thing as extinct, as Sartris mentioned. Plenty of 'Mechs have been patched and repaired for hundreds of years after their production has halted. Were out of production the same thing as extinct, there'd be only 30 or so non-extinct 'Mech designs during the 3rd Succession War!

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Re: Battlemechs That Are Considered "Extinct"
« Reply #29 on: 21 February 2016, 14:34:41 »
War of Reaving Supplemental, P.17 has a list of Clan Mechs that are no longer in production. Might want to add those to the list.

Out of production in the Homeworlds. Some if not most of those may still be produced in the Occupation Zones.


"Deep down, I suspect the eject handle on the Hunchback IIC was never actually connected to anything. The regs just say it has to be there."
- Klarg1

 

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