Author Topic: MWO Roughneck unveiled  (Read 20678 times)

martian

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #30 on: 05 December 2016, 02:10:45 »
It's more like Alex Iglesias' discarded concept.

Sharpnel

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #31 on: 05 December 2016, 12:26:30 »
I've done up all of the Roughneck variants with SSW. Link is below

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55668.0
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The_Caveman

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #32 on: 05 December 2016, 12:45:34 »
Wait, what?

I'm not sure if you know what a Shadowhawk is anymore, considering the vast differences between this and the Shadowhawk. It does (Barely, if you squint your eyes real tight) ape the Shadow Hawk in terms of armament, but that seems to be the similarity's end.

As for his art, it's less "Variations on the same 'mech" and more "'Mechs in a specific style".



You're seriously telling me you can't see the resemblance? Aside from the weird gorilla arms and the wasp waist they're very similar. All the Roughneck is missing is a boxy cowl over its cockpit instead of the roll cage.

All the humanoid 'Mechs in MWO look so much alike to me that I have trouble with target identification without the help of the HUD. I didn't have that problem with previous MW games despite the vastly inferior graphics fidelity (MW2 has basically a bunch of cubes stuck together like early Plog art, but you can still tell what's what), so clearly the problem is in the designs for MWO.
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Jayof9s

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #33 on: 05 December 2016, 12:53:54 »
You're seriously telling me you can't see the resemblance? Aside from the weird gorilla arms and the wasp waist they're very similar. All the Roughneck is missing is a boxy cowl over its cockpit instead of the roll cage.

I'm completely with you on this. I thought it was a Hero Shadow Hawk with weird arms.

I mean, I see the differences with them next to each other but the similarities are pretty glaring.

NeonKnight

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #34 on: 05 December 2016, 12:54:36 »
All the humanoid 'Mechs in MWO look so much alike to me that I have trouble with target identification without the help of the HUD.

I Know EXACTLY what you mean. It's so nice the real world is nothing like that!



vs



vs




But, thankfully we have:



vs



vs



Which we can all see look nothing at alike and the uninitiated can easily tell from a distance which is which ;)

Seriously, in truth, I care nothing about care, and until I get close enough to look at the logo, could not tell aside from the super sports versions one car type from another, so...yeah.
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Mech42ace

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #35 on: 05 December 2016, 17:29:22 »
I think it's more of the fact that Iglesias' has designed all of the mechs in MW:O. When you're one artist doing all the work on a game you're bound to have elements from different mechs show up again in your concepts. Compare some of the earlier concepts to each other, say two mediums like the Hunchback and Centurion who are both bipeds; or a heavy and assault Mech who are both chicken walkers, such as the Stalker and Catapult. These examples are different from each other, and it's easy to tell the difference.

But when you compare some of the recent designs to each other, my point becomes apparent... they seem to blur together. It's really a matter of how many mechs are in the game already.
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The_Caveman

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #36 on: 05 December 2016, 17:35:07 »
I Know EXACTLY what you mean. It's so nice the real world is nothing like that!

In the real world car companies put a lot of effort into chasing trends. Fictional art assets for a video game are supposed to be designed so the player can tell them apart.
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

Caedis Animus

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #37 on: 05 December 2016, 18:20:50 »
You're seriously telling me you can't see the resemblance? Aside from the weird gorilla arms and the wasp waist they're very similar. All the Roughneck is missing is a boxy cowl over its cockpit instead of the roll cage.

All the humanoid 'Mechs in MWO look so much alike to me that I have trouble with target identification without the help of the HUD. I didn't have that problem with previous MW games despite the vastly inferior graphics fidelity (MW2 has basically a bunch of cubes stuck together like early Plog art, but you can still tell what's what), so clearly the problem is in the designs for MWO.
You know what? I'm going to challenge you on this.

First off-the Shadowhawk image you chose is the first result on Google Images. And it's flipped, thus inaccurate. The main gun is on the right side, when it's supposed to be on the left.

And yes-the waist and arms of the Shadow Hawk and Roughneck are different, obviously so.

Image One - Cockpit Assembly. The Shadow Hawk's cockpit is upright, surrounded by plating on all four sides, and is box-shaped for the most part-with a missile rack to the right and an antennae on top, it sticks out from the chest despite the lack of a neck. This is consistent with original artwork, where-while having a neck-the cockpit was recessed into the head. Meanwhile, the Roughneck, while also lacking a neck, has a much more exposed cockpit, much closer to the Huntsman in location/position, but it juts out at the bottom. A bar is located above it mounting the laser, the bottom is exposed and juts, the glass is reinforced. Although, it also has an antennae-a much larger one at a 45 degree angle from the top of the head. Two large metal struts run from either side of the head providing a "Collar" not much unlike the Executioner, but less pronounced and at a parallel angle.

Image Two - Chest. The chest/torso of the Shadow Hawk is smooth, with a recessed missile rack on the right side for the LRM-5, a small bump in the center, and two vents on the underside of the chest. The chest of the Roughneck, on the other hand, has a large pit down the center thanks to the struts to the side of the cockpit. The missile rack on the left side is on the shoulder, and two beam mounts are on the left "breast". Meanwhile, the right shoulder is dominated by a gun in a mounting at the same height. This is a reversal of the Shadow Hawk's gun position, true, but sizewise the gun is much larger and more obnoxious.

Image Three - The legs. Oh my. The Shadow Hawk's leg has a massive heel, a thick front, and a humanoid-biped design. Simple and to the point, with chunkiness in spades. While the Roughneck's leg is similarly chunky, it is digitigrade in design, lacking a "Heel" in the vein of the Shadow Hawk. This is probably-aside from the lumbering arms-the most glaring portion of the 'mech.

Image Four - Groin.I don't want to talk about this one much due to the inherent awkwardness of the image, but the Shadow Hawk's groin is larger, being taller than the Roughneck's wider hips.
« Last Edit: 05 December 2016, 18:34:34 by Caedis_Animus »

IAMCLANWOLF

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #38 on: 05 December 2016, 18:25:29 »
Thank you, Caedis Animus. Could not have said it any better... [applause]

Caedis Animus

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #39 on: 05 December 2016, 18:32:43 »
Removed due to being overly salty.
« Last Edit: 05 December 2016, 18:35:19 by Caedis_Animus »

worktroll

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #40 on: 05 December 2016, 18:42:23 »
Lack of salt is a good thing.

That's your opinion, CA. Unfortunately, my instant thought was also "modded Shadow Hawk?" Simple left/right inversion doesn't invalidate such a perception, nor do specific differences of detail, otherwise it'd have been much easier to deal with the whole Unseen problem in past decades.

I think it's more a comment on the artist's style. See also the MWO Assassin, which ended up with legs like the MWO Huntsman. Or the MWO Cyclops, that has to some a significant similarity to the MWO Archer. If the artist uses certain stylistic components repeatedly, this will crop up from time to time.

You're allowed to find it cool. Others, including myself, are also allowed to find it derivative. It's a big universe.
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Burning Chrome

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #41 on: 05 December 2016, 21:14:13 »
I think it's more a comment on the artist's style. See also the MWO Assassin, which ended up with legs like the MWO Huntsman. Or the MWO Cyclops, that has to some a significant similarity to the MWO Archer. If the artist uses certain stylistic components repeatedly, this will crop up from time to time.

Yep, don't like the Assassin's legs either, but I still bought it cuz it's an Assassin...with Huntsman's legs... :-\

Cyclops has always had similarity with the Archer, even in 3025...so two artist recycling stuff?  :o

I find the Roughneck to be more of a re-use of the Warhammer chassis then anything.  Almost looks like the WHM-8M in a way.

You're allowed to find it cool. Others, including myself, are also allowed to find it derivative. It's a big universe.

 ??? :) ;D :)) :D

I hope this thing is about the size of the T-bolt, the other 65-tonner I like piloting.  O0

« Last Edit: 05 December 2016, 21:17:06 by Burning Chrome »
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Bren

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #42 on: 05 December 2016, 21:43:52 »
If that shoulder autocannon was gone I can't imagine anyone seeing that 'Mech and thinking 'Shadow Hawk'.

YingJanshi

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #43 on: 05 December 2016, 23:47:51 »
Personally I think it looks more like the Hound than the Shadow Hawk




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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #44 on: 06 December 2016, 12:42:04 »
ugh. i like his work on a technical level, but as a designer Iglesias work is a pile of ugly choices put together as blandly and roughly as he can manage. can't even imagine what use those clamps serve, maybe it's supposed to hold things in place while better-designed 'mechs do the real work?
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Mech42ace

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #45 on: 06 December 2016, 15:39:37 »
can't even imagine what use those clamps serve, maybe it's supposed to hold things in place while better-designed 'mechs do the real work?
Primitive hand actuators that aren't advanced as mech actuators, that don't have to be quite as precise? I think they're appropriate for the astetic of the Mech, considering it's origin. It was probably used to pick up and move cargo with minimal maintanence... it is based off an industrialmech after all.
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Burning Chrome

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #46 on: 06 December 2016, 17:52:15 »
Couldn't resist.  I like the design too much to pass on it and think it will be fun.

The long paddle like arms with clamps on the ends make it look like its designed to move large Conex containers and the like, using the clamps to secure it.  Other items suggest different utilities.  The name is kinda lame, but whatever.  Hope the in-game model captures the concept art well.

So I ordered the standard pack so far, and was about to order the reinforcements but then I thought about the inbound quirk changes...

You won't need to get 3 mechs in the future to master them so how will that impact future mech packs? 

Will each mech be priced individually? 

Mechs ala-cart?

Where will the cost be made up?

As far as I can tell, the grind to what is considered "mastered" will become much more "grindy", time consuming and costly in both GXP, XP and MC...though nothing final has been announced yet. 

How will that affect matchmaking and the current tier system?

Taking a new mech out at Tier 2 isn't to bad for me as I have enough modules I can apply and GXP to unlock anchor turn or what ever I choose...but once the new system is in-place... :-\

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IAMCLANWOLF

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #47 on: 06 December 2016, 20:08:25 »
...
« Last Edit: 07 December 2016, 13:45:36 by IAMCLANWOLF »

Caedis Animus

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #48 on: 06 December 2016, 22:22:57 »
Yeah, I kinda don't want many configs. I did have an idea for the standard involving medium-caliber autocannons, so I mostly just want that one and one other. That said, three 'mechs to play with isn't the worst thing.

IAMCLANWOLF

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #49 on: 07 December 2016, 11:20:26 »
That said, three 'mechs to play with isn't the worst thing.

Well, it would be four in my case (as I have my eye on the Reaver) but, yeah. 

Burning Chrome

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #50 on: 12 December 2016, 15:36:41 »
It'll be 5 for me... :-\.

I wonder if we'll be able to change our choices if the new system goes into place before this mech is released?

Like ala-cart, 1 or two from the standard, and 1 or two from the reinforcements and the hero?  One from each plus the hero equals $25.00 or $30.00?

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Cyc

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #51 on: 31 March 2017, 22:40:30 »
Latest NGNG Competitive Roundtable steam had some images of the Roughneck, so its quite advanced production wise. The torso hardpoint placement, wow.





Caedis Animus

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #52 on: 31 March 2017, 23:58:20 »
I feel like some earlier critics of the Roughneck may be a little more sour now. That energy placement is astounding.

Doesn't look half bad, either.

Cache

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #53 on: 01 April 2017, 09:27:52 »
That energy placement is astounding.
Of course it is. They have to make their own design take advantage of their game mechanics to be more popular.

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #54 on: 01 April 2017, 11:00:39 »
Isn't this thing suppose to be crappy because it's a industrialMech armored up?
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Recklessfireball1

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #55 on: 01 April 2017, 16:49:01 »
Heh.  Vise-clamp arms.  Those will be real handy in metal shop.   :)

Not that much dorkier than some of the canon designs, I suppose.

Caedis Animus

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #56 on: 01 April 2017, 17:34:15 »
Of course it is. They have to make their own design take advantage of their game mechanics to be more popular.
Well, it's an IS low-end heavy. Even if it wasn't a homebrewed design it needed something going towards it.

Burning Chrome

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #57 on: 01 April 2017, 22:58:16 »
Glorious!

Looks like it could be fun!

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #58 on: 02 April 2017, 18:50:12 »
Isn't this thing suppose to be crappy because it's a industrialMech armored up?

and same with tabletop, fluff can say stuff that often is not reflected in actual game stats. Unlike many of the Industrial/PrimitiveMech conversions to standard tech, I seriously doubt the Roughneck was ever stated up as anything other than a true BattleMech.

It has very good torso hardpoints (can expose weps while minimising torso exposure aka hill humping) and its lengthy forearms look great from a shielding perspective, the only lacks the Roughneck would have in MWO is that its not 75 tons and that of many of its variants starting single heat sinks and without Endo or Ferro, and the later is a quick fix really if you have the C-Bills.

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Re: MWO Roughneck unveiled
« Reply #59 on: 10 April 2017, 20:36:35 »
New April/May/Beyond Roadmap has a 'Mech Bay shot


 

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