Author Topic: Kitting out a Vincent for long-term exploration - what to bring?  (Read 12198 times)

Giovanni Blasini

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So, once upon a time in the FGC'62, I did some math after getting ahold of a Vincent Mk 39:

39.52 tons/burn-day fuel * 365.25 days/year * 5 years = 72163.4 tons for 5 years worth of burn-days of fuel.

For 250 people, 5 years worth of supplies would be:

153 crew in standard quarters / 200 man-days/ton of supplies * 365.25 days/year * 5 years = 1397.1 tons

32 crew in bays / 20 man-days/ton of supplies * 365.25 days/year * 5 years = 2922 tons

Lessons: Bay personnel use way more supplies than those in quarters, and I have no idea why the Vincent has 24 gunners for a ship that really only needs eight.

But still, for less than 77 thousand tons, your Vincent can carry far more fuel than it could possibly use over five years, plus five years worth of food for its entire crew, and still have nearly 20 kilotons available in its cargo hold.

Why five years?  Well, for five-year missions of exploration, of course!  Even at a relatively sluggish 200 hours/jump, a Vincent could make a 3200 light-year round trip within five years.  In reality, the amount of fuel I chose is probably massively excessive, and finding water sources to mine for hydrogen along the way should also be possible.

So, kitting out a Vincent in one go to spend five, ten years or even longer in one go for a long-range exploration mission should be easy enough, relatively, to do.  How, though, would you deck out such a ship?

Let's start with the obvious: you have to fill out your 6 fighter and 4 small craft bays.  You need landing parties full of redshirts to explore these planets you're going to boldly go to.  Lastly, the only groups likely to do something like this would be the Terran Hegemony or Star League, Comstar's Explorer Corps, or maybe Interstellar Expeditions in canon, though this was also the plan for FGC Niops who, sadly, lack such a ship in canon.

Given the above list, though, let's stick to Star League Regular availability during the Star League era, to use the MUL for an example. So, Prowler Exploration Vehicles and Ares Mk I landing craft to shuttle them to the surface?  Standard infantry or Nighthawk PA(L) enhanced redshirts?  Aerospace fighters or LAMs for dual-role, or a mix of both?  What other supplies or spares would you need to bring?
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Bigger gravdecks for crew health, if you don't mind mods?

More crew quarters for bay personnel and explorers?
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Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

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Given the above list, though, let's stick to Star League Regular availability during the Star League era, to use the MUL for an example. So, Prowler Exploration Vehicles and Ares Mk I landing craft to shuttle them to the surface?  Standard infantry or Nighthawk PA(L) enhanced redshirts?  Aerospace fighters or LAMs for dual-role, or a mix of both?  What other supplies or spares would you need to bring?

First thing's first, you've chosen the Vincent which is one of the most modifiable warship designs to have been created, so I am going to take advantage of that fact.

Well, one of the first things I would try to bring - and modify the Vincent to accommodate - would be a dropshuttle (or two) intended to convert water into fuel and transport it from a surface to the warship.  This one modification would both increase the range and the versatility available to the mission.  Rather than bunkerage for 5 years worth of fuel, it could be decreased to 6 months, the resulting increase in available space can be used for other things to increase both the versatility and range of the mission.  One of the real reasons for using a dropshuttle is the efficiency it would be able to work at, rather than requiring the use of small craft/fighters to do the deed in small quantities you have a larger ship more capable of creating larger quantities at a time.

The next step would be to include a combination of hydroponics, food reprocessing, and real quarters for bay personnel.  The combination of these three additions would again increase the range as well as the overall morale of the crew.  A hydroponics bay, properly made, could be a small park-like setting allowing for mental decompression and the ability to actually have fresh fruits and vegetables on occasion would be huge.  The actual mass and space of this system might not save a lot of tonnage during a five-year mission, but I consider the boost in morale to be worth it.

The next addition is going to be a series of significantly high tech and spacious laboratories.  A five-year mission isn't likely to simply be plotting systems, it is likely also going to be canvassing them, and determining the levels of viability for human habitation.  These laboratories would be capable of determining whether the fauna and flora of discovered planets/moons were toxic or beneficial to potential colonizers.

With the above in mind most of the rest of the cargo is going to be devoted to raw materials which could be used in the machine shop I am also adding, to create whatever is needed, more-or-less, on the fly.  I suspect that I could manage to fit about 40kt worth of various minerals and materials, and still have space left over for a material recycling plant.  Basically I'm looking to recycle as much as I can throughout the voyage in whatever way I efficiently can.

As far as actual included craft are concerned, first, I'm not expecting a fight (though I don't want to be complete defenseless.  This means that most of the ASF bays are going to be loaded with ASF.  But in the cargo I'm going to include a significantly sized complement of LAMs - probably somewhere around battalion sized.  In this case I am looking at versatility rather than mission-centric equipment - that's what the machine shop is for, manufacturing the mission specific equipment once we know what's needed.  This also means that I'd be looking at Nighthawks for whoever goes to the surface.  They have environmental sealing and increase the user's strength to deal with unexpected situations, their internal power supplies can also be used for powering equipment for extended lengths of time.  Small craft would again be more generalized, with the K-1 likely being predominant, though an Ares I LRSC or two would be beneficial in some circumstances, it would also be a good idea to have a more heavily cargo focused small craft.  The K-1, with the cargo small craft, could function very well as a small base of operations, allowing for the resources for extended surface missions, having 6+ personnel and necessary equipment, food and maintenance supplies - the ship could fairly easily drop a pair of small craft and then return 3 or 6 months later to see what they've discovered.

I think that covers just about everything, though I'm sure I've missed a couple things.  The big thing I'm looking at is that versatility is the key to both survival and gathering all the information possible.

Death by Lasers

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  I love this idea!

  I would bring some satellites along, something equivalent to a Skyward.  Deploy them around a planet of interest, leave, and come back at some future date to gather the data.  The six tons of communications equipment onboard the Skyward will also be useful because you won't need to travel all the way back to the planet to pick up its transmissions.

  You might also want a few a science teams on your ship depending on what you are searching for.  Some archeologists may be useful if you find a dead civilization, some anthropologists if you find a living one, some geologists if you are looking for minerals/resource deposits, and some biologists if you are studying a planet for habitability.  For the science teams you are going to want some surveying equipment, vehicles like the Ibex, the Skynews Helicopter, and if you want to study a site very carefully from the air perhaps a Schatten Surveillance Airship.  Exoskeletons could also be helpful but I can't think of any Star League Era industrial Exoskeletons.

  Now to unload these onto planets you are going to have to fit a dropship into your cargo bay.  Now I know in the Age of War this was the standard method but I will honestly have to recheck the rules to see if this can be done with a Star League era Warship.  If it can I would stuff a couple of Manatees in the cargo hold and have them to carry down surveying and research equipment. 
« Last Edit: 20 May 2017, 10:50:42 by Death by Lasers »
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Tagged I'm going out but may add something later
My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,79196.0.html - Part 3

Giovanni Blasini

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Bigger gravdecks for crew health, if you don't mind mods?

More crew quarters for bay personnel and explorers?

More crew quarters for bay personnel and exploration staff makes a lot of sense for a long-term explorer, yeah.  A bigger grav deck would certainly help, though I'm not sure how difficult it would be to cram a bigger one or more grav decks into a Vincent.

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Giovanni Blasini

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  I love this idea!

  I would bring some satellites along, something equivalent to a Skyward.  Deploy them around a planet of interest, leave, and come back at some future date to gather the data.  The six tons of communications equipment onboard the Skyward will also be useful because you won't need to travel all the way back to the planet to pick up its transmissions.

Good idea. HPG satellites every now and then would also be handy if you have access to them, and I seem to recall Explorer Corps using a cargo satellite to drop smaller probes into a black hole for long-term study.

Quote
  You might also want a few a science teams on your ship depending on what you are searching for.  Some archeologists may be useful if you find a dead civilization, some anthropologists if you find a living one, some geologists if you are looking for minerals/resource deposits, and some biologists if you are studying a planet for habitability.  For the science teams you are going to want some surveying equipment, vehicles like the Ibex, the Skynews Helicopter, and if you want to study a site very carefully from the air perhaps a Schatten Surveillance Airship.  Exoskeletons could also be helpful but I can't think of any Star League Era industrial Exoskeletons.

Ooh, I hadn't even thought of those support vehicles, which would work well for this.

And, yeah, I'd be kitting out science teams for exploration.  In some ways, this is a lot like the old SLS Pioneer under the original SLDF, but writ smaller.

Quote
  Now to unload these onto planets you are going to have to fit a dropship into your cargo bay.  Now I know in the Age of War this was the standard method but I will honestly have to recheck the rules to see if this can be done with a Star League era Warship.  If it can I would stuff a couple of Manatees in the cargo hold and have them to carry down surveying and research equipment.

DropShuttle bays.  I did something like that for my conjectural Vincent Mk 1:

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=52608.msg1214538#msg1214538
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Giovanni Blasini

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First thing's first, you've chosen the Vincent which is one of the most modifiable warship designs to have been created, so I am going to take advantage of that fact.

Well, one of the first things I would try to bring - and modify the Vincent to accommodate - would be a dropshuttle (or two) intended to convert water into fuel and transport it from a surface to the warship.  This one modification would both increase the range and the versatility available to the mission.  Rather than bunkerage for 5 years worth of fuel, it could be decreased to 6 months, the resulting increase in available space can be used for other things to increase both the versatility and range of the mission.  One of the real reasons for using a dropshuttle is the efficiency it would be able to work at, rather than requiring the use of small craft/fighters to do the deed in small quantities you have a larger ship more capable of creating larger quantities at a time.

Depending on the size of the comet or asteroid, you could always dock the whole ship too and convert directly, though that risks the whole ship in an accident.

But, yeah, finding some way to electrolysize large amounts of water for hydrogen fuel and to replenish oxygen would be damned handy.

Quote
The next step would be to include a combination of hydroponics, food reprocessing, and real quarters for bay personnel.  The combination of these three additions would again increase the range as well as the overall morale of the crew.  A hydroponics bay, properly made, could be a small park-like setting allowing for mental decompression and the ability to actually have fresh fruits and vegetables on occasion would be huge.  The actual mass and space of this system might not save a lot of tonnage during a five-year mission, but I consider the boost in morale to be worth it.

Given their presence on the Invader and Monolith, I've always wondered if hydroponics is considered part of the mass of standard quarters.

Quote
The next addition is going to be a series of significantly high tech and spacious laboratories.  A five-year mission isn't likely to simply be plotting systems, it is likely also going to be canvassing them, and determining the levels of viability for human habitation.  These laboratories would be capable of determining whether the fauna and flora of discovered planets/moons were toxic or beneficial to potential colonizers.

With the above in mind most of the rest of the cargo is going to be devoted to raw materials which could be used in the machine shop I am also adding, to create whatever is needed, more-or-less, on the fly.  I suspect that I could manage to fit about 40kt worth of various minerals and materials, and still have space left over for a material recycling plant.  Basically I'm looking to recycle as much as I can throughout the voyage in whatever way I efficiently can.

Factory modules from the small factory maybe?

Quote
As far as actual included craft are concerned, first, I'm not expecting a fight (though I don't want to be complete defenseless.  This means that most of the ASF bays are going to be loaded with ASF.  But in the cargo I'm going to include a significantly sized complement of LAMs - probably somewhere around battalion sized.  In this case I am looking at versatility rather than mission-centric equipment - that's what the machine shop is for, manufacturing the mission specific equipment once we know what's needed.  This also means that I'd be looking at Nighthawks for whoever goes to the surface.  They have environmental sealing and increase the user's strength to deal with unexpected situations, their internal power supplies can also be used for powering equipment for extended lengths of time.  Small craft would again be more generalized, with the K-1 likely being predominant, though an Ares I LRSC or two would be beneficial in some circumstances, it would also be a good idea to have a more heavily cargo focused small craft.  The K-1, with the cargo small craft, could function very well as a small base of operations, allowing for the resources for extended surface missions, having 6+ personnel and necessary equipment, food and maintenance supplies - the ship could fairly easily drop a pair of small craft and then return 3 or 6 months later to see what they've discovered.

I think that covers just about everything, though I'm sure I've missed a couple things.  The big thing I'm looking at is that versatility is the key to both survival and gathering all the information possible.

Yeah, Nighthawks have a lot of advantages over even XCT-trained infantry, and can pull double-duty in combat and non-combat roles thanks to armored gloves and extra strength.

Good idea on LAMs in cargo, since you can shuffle ASFs and LAMs in and out of the existing fighter bays depending upon need.
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LAMs are definitely a good idea. I'd go for K-1 DropShuttles for at least some of your small craft complement. They've got the range to explore locations far from the mother ship, and while aerodynes *can* land vertically without a runway, I'm fairly certain using a spheroid us better if you're going to be doing it on a regular basis. You'll need something with a bigger cargo bay to land vehicles, though.

As for ground units, the Cortez Explorer from TRO VA sounds right up your alley.
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Yes, for vertically landing small craft, it's better to go spheroid (at least for the time being).  Pretty much everything else I'd add has already been said by others, aside from "I love this idea!" O0

Giovanni Blasini

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LAMs are definitely a good idea. I'd go for K-1 DropShuttles for at least some of your small craft complement. They've got the range to explore locations far from the mother ship, and while aerodynes *can* land vertically without a runway, I'm fairly certain using a spheroid us better if you're going to be doing it on a regular basis. You'll need something with a bigger cargo bay to land vehicles, though.

As for ground units, the Cortez Explorer from TRO VA sounds right up your alley.

The Cortez is awesome, but I can't think of any small craft with the cargo capacity to carry one.  I suppe I could mod one, or mod the Vincent to carry DropShuttles, but I was trying to use as many canon designs as I could.
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Yeah, that's my thinking as well. Honestly, I think your best bet would be to scale this operation up a bit to the flotilla level. Vincents sound great for the exploration role, but it might be best to have two or three of them acting as the first wave of explorers, each doing the initial survey of a system, and then the lot of them returning to a collar-equipped command ship that can bring DropShips to any locations that call for heavy-duty investigation. Perhaps a Dart?
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Giovanni Blasini

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Yeah, that's my thinking as well. Honestly, I think your best bet would be to scale this operation up a bit to the flotilla level. Vincents sound great for the exploration role, but it might be best to have two or three of them acting as the first wave of explorers, each doing the initial survey of a system, and then the lot of them returning to a collar-equipped command ship that can bring DropShips to any locations that call for heavy-duty investigation. Perhaps a Dart?

For larger states, a Dart would probably be great.  To compare it to Trek, the Dart would be your big exploration cruiser, your Vincents your poor Oberths.

I'm spinning this, though, as a toned-down slightly FGC Niops crammed into something more or less canon starting just before the Jihad, with the canon happenings on Niops during the Jihad inflicted at home.  FGC Niops managed to build up a ridiculous fleet under the rules: a Naga, two Vincents and 3-4 Trackers.  I was planning to reduce that way the heck down, though keeping the Trackers as Oberths to the Vincent's Constutution class could work.

You know, with Explorer Corps winding down by the 3060s, a couple surplus environmentally sealed Prowler exploration vehicles could work, and fit in the cargo hold of a Ares Mk I, if I didn't want to say the A Momentary Lapse of Reason isn't an early Mark of the Vincent that dated to when DropShuttle bays were more common. If I did add a DropShuttle bay, an old Manatee or Black Eagle plus DroST I could handle moving exploration teams to the surface.
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I would either go the Drop-shuttle route given the age of an early Vincent (2409) or just change the ship to a Tracker for the 2 Dropships.

Because the Orbit to Ground transport seems to be your biggest issue here.

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Giovanni Blasini

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Yeah, Trackers get the DropShips, but bit smaller on cargo. Besides, Trackers are best used for pirate ships, anyway.

Any early Vincent salvaged and half falling apart would be hilarious. ;D
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Only take one smallcraft capable of landing, with a maximum capacity of a dozen people. Only one, mind you.

Oh, and a cargo platform that isn't designed for the space/atmospheric interface. With the cargo platform open to vacuum.

Why yes, I just did see Alien: Covenant.

Snark aside, have I missed anyone suggesting a portable HPG yet? And minimum two Octopus dropships, just because they're Swiss army tools, specifically designed to do just about anything including planetary landings?
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Snark aside, have I missed anyone suggesting a portable HPG yet? And minimum two Octopus dropships, just because they're Swiss army tools, specifically designed to do just about anything including planetary landings?

In a way, yes.  The Skyward was mentioned by Death by Lasers which has an HPG variant.

As far as utilizing an HPG, I have mixed feelings.  They are very good communications devices, but if you are intending on going on deep space missions (which the idea of this warship's mission suggests), you are either going to quickly leave the ability to communicate behind (the 50 light-year maximum is less than 2 jumps), or will start increasing the price tag of the mission very quickly while making sure you have enough HPG relay satellites to continue to communicate.  A Vincent Mk. 39 has a price tag of around 1.8 billion c-bills, adding an HPG to it more than doubles that, then adding in the relay costs and what was once a ~2 billion c-bill mission turns into a 10+ billion c-bill mission.

Given their presence on the Invader and Monolith, I've always wondered if hydroponics is considered part of the mass of standard quarters.

While I find it perfectly fine and acceptable on civilian ships with very limited maneuverability, I can see it being a huge problem in a warship intended on making quick maneuvers.  My thoughts have always been that larger jumpships frequently have hydroponics, but warships use hyper-efficient recyclers.  I like them specifically for this mission because the warship is not likely to have to utilize such maneuvers much, if at all.


Factory modules from the small factory maybe?

Would probably work.

Giovanni Blasini

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Only take one smallcraft capable of landing, with a maximum capacity of a dozen people. Only one, mind you.

Oh, and a cargo platform that isn't designed for the space/atmospheric interface. With the cargo platform open to vacuum.

So, Hoshiryokou?

Quote
Why yes, I just did see Alien: Covenant.

Hokey, I take it?

Quote
Snark aside, have I missed anyone suggesting a portable HPG yet? And minimum two Octopus dropships, just because they're Swiss army tools, specifically designed to do just about anything including planetary landings?

Yeah, but no way to carry one in a Vincent without modifying the ship by adding docking collars. While it's modular, sure, that's something nobody seems to have ever done.
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Don't forget to install a Large NCSS, and probably hyperspectral imagers, one to survey a system faster, and the other to map out a planet faster, and analyze what you can so you can send your ground team to check things of interest.

Quarters for bay personnel are pretty essential for this kind of duration as well, as others have mentioned.

If it wouldn't break your bank, you might mod the ship by adding docking collars. A ship that size can have a maximum of 9 docking collars, and that would extend your potential cargo capacity exponentially. It would also let you send teams simultaneously across a system, with all the supplies they might need. Doing that would be very, very expensive though.

I'd also like to point out that the Hi Scout drone carrier might make a great addition to this expedition, since crews could control rovers from inside it, to explore with less danger to the people. I'm not sure if it is available in the time period though.

bluedragon7

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What would you consider the important assets for long term exploration with a warship?
I think cargo capacity and Lithium Fusion would be my top priority and sufficient dropships could substitute quite a bit of cargo.
For orbit to surface shuttles should do, though dropships could offer some advantages.
Good quality quarters and grav decks are a must too.

In my view a Vincent only has the cargo capacity for it but lacks almost everywhere else. But maybe there is a mark 27 version that has the ideal modules for long term exploration?

snewsom2997

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Without Collars or Dropshuttle Bays, you will be severely limited in your exploration ability.

What about the Cruiser Warship. 500k Tons, less thrust, more boom boom, same number of Small shuttles, similar Cargo Capacity, but with 2 Dropshuttle Bays capable of carrying 10k ton vessels. The Vincent is a decent military craft, the Cruiser wasn't, though it is more than capable enough for exploration.

Do you really need a LFB? Your scientists are going to want to spend some time at each planet, more than enough for a sail charge. Do you need a craft that accelerates at 3g max, because you are not going to be outflanking other warships and dropships. The one thing you do want, collars or shuttle bays are something the Vincent lacks.

With the Cruiser, you can have a couple sizable dropships, 10k Tons is rather larger, a couple of modified Overlords. with the Mech Bays torn out, and replaced with Cargo Space, no need to hot drop anything, or secure a landing zone.

You will greatly increase the ability to stay in the field and do science, if you can make fuel and water on the worlds you visit, or can find an icy ball floating around somewhere, don't think you want to dock you warship with the refining equipment to a comet for fuel and water. Instead of using 1/2 you cargo space for fuel and water, you can carry other things, like more food, or the hydroponics bays, satellites or workshops mentioned above, as well as dropping HPG satellite bread crumbs on the route.

Most of the exploration will be done with the Dropships and their assets, not the warship. I would see vehicles and industrial mechs being far more important for exploration. I would see keeping some measure of Drone Command equipment handy as well. Like mention above, something like a high scout, or dedicated space on the Dropships, for small unmanned aircraft and hovercraft, maybe even submarines, if you find an ocean world. I would also think you would want everything Fusion powered, or at the very least Hydrogen Fuel cell powered.

Giovanni Blasini

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Without Collars or Dropshuttle Bays, you will be severely limited in your exploration ability.

What about the Cruiser Warship. 500k Tons, less thrust, more boom boom, same number of Small shuttles, similar Cargo Capacity, but with 2 Dropshuttle Bays capable of carrying 10k ton vessels. The Vincent is a decent military craft, the Cruiser wasn't, though it is more than capable enough for exploration.

The Cruiser class also carries 48 NAC/10, 24 Barracudas and 6 White Sharks, and was originally meant to lob nukes at people.  While you'd probably be OK during the Star League era, since it's considered long obsolete then, during the Civil War/Jihad era I'm looking at, that's almost 3.5 times the broadside of a Fox class, and in the ballpark of a Kyushu class frigate.

There's issues with the bays, too, but I'll explain that below.  Also, I'd originally planned to use a Vincent because what I'm basing this idea on, the version of Niops from the old FGC'62 game, specifically had two of them they planned to do this with, along with a handful of Trackers for anti-pirate work, and the Naga they were keeping for home defense.

Quote
Do you really need a LFB? Your scientists are going to want to spend some time at each planet, more than enough for a sail charge. Do you need a craft that accelerates at 3g max, because you are not going to be outflanking other warships and dropships. The one thing you do want, collars or shuttle bays are something the Vincent lacks.

With the Cruiser, you can have a couple sizable dropships, 10k Tons is rather larger, a couple of modified Overlords. with the Mech Bays torn out, and replaced with Cargo Space, no need to hot drop anything, or secure a landing zone.

You can't actually carry Overlords, sadly.  It was ruled that only DropShuttles

In fact, for the canon ships we know about, you can only carry the following:


Saturn Patrol Ship (2243)
Vulture (2312) (Cargo - 2420, (Standard - 2405)
Manatee (Cargo - 2403), (Standard - 2449)
Black Eagle (2453)

There's also a to-be-released version of the DroST I that will be reduced to 5000 tons and able to be carried in a DropShuttle bay.

Unfortunately, we just don't have any other published ships that qualify as being both old enough to be pre-JumpShip docking collar invention in 2460-2470 range, and also smaller than 5000 tons, which is also required by the DropShuttle Bay rules.  While that severely limits their utility, you are left with a couple 'Mech haulers, a couple vehicle/infantry haulers, a primitive assault ship, and some cargo hauler variants, but they're all older than dirt, just like the Cruiser itself, and they almost all have crappy/extinct availability in the 3060s.  Only the Vulture is still around, and any of those you want to use, you'd need to rip the KF Boom back off the ship, since they've undoubtedly been converted to work with JumpShips since then, which precludes working in DropShuttle Bays.

Quote
You will greatly increase the ability to stay in the field and do science, if you can make fuel and water on the worlds you visit, or can find an icy ball floating around somewhere, don't think you want to dock you warship with the refining equipment to a comet for fuel and water. Instead of using 1/2 you cargo space for fuel and water, you can carry other things, like more food, or the hydroponics bays, satellites or workshops mentioned above, as well as dropping HPG satellite bread crumbs on the route.

That is indeed one of the Vincent's limitations, in that we don't have a canon version of the Vincent with any capacity to carry DropShips at all, which is a little frustrating, and makes its adoption for this purpose harder to do.  And, yeah, small craft for refueling will take a huge amount of time to do.

Quote
Most of the exploration will be done with the Dropships and their assets, not the warship. I would see vehicles and industrial mechs being far more important for exploration. I would see keeping some measure of Drone Command equipment handy as well. Like mention above, something like a high scout, or dedicated space on the Dropships, for small unmanned aircraft and hovercraft, maybe even submarines, if you find an ocean world. I would also think you would want everything Fusion powered, or at the very least Hydrogen Fuel cell powered.

Yep.  Hydrocarbons would suck to maintain on your ground vehicles.
« Last Edit: 22 May 2017, 18:43:51 by Giovanni Blasini »
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Dragon Cat

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Speaking of the DropShuttle I'd love for the to come out with what is essentially a flying brick it's described as pretty much that with even armour, enough thrust to land and break orbit and maybe a defence of medium Lasers all around the side the rest cargo

My reasoning is the current ships look like DropShips and act like the instead you go with something completely oddball something that could never in a million years catch on as a sure thing for the future and that's the original DropShuttle
My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,79196.0.html - Part 3

Giovanni Blasini

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Speaking of the DropShuttle I'd love for the to come out with what is essentially a flying brick it's described as pretty much that with even armour, enough thrust to land and break orbit and maybe a defence of medium Lasers all around the side the rest cargo

My reasoning is the current ships look like DropShips and act like the instead you go with something completely oddball something that could never in a million years catch on as a sure thing for the future and that's the original DropShuttle

Flying brick for rough landings on unexplored/unsettled worlds, to support colonization? That would be cool.
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Dragon Cat

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Flying brick for rough landings on unexplored/unsettled worlds, to support colonization? That would be cool.

Yeah either it is a one shot that is designed to go from the DropShuttle bay to planet and not be used again (basic colonisation) or a usable version that can regularly go back an forth between planet and orbiter - think a scaled up (by about 10-20000) version of RL ships Simple basic planet to orbit transports not DropShips
My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,79196.0.html - Part 3

Iron Mongoose

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Lot's of FGC reminisces these days.  If memory serves, you got the Vincents off the FWL, which means they would have been really new builds, still with that new warship smell and industry leading 100,000 light year warranty. It also makes simple changes easy, since you can just specify them on the order sheet.  Of course, they were also built by folks who'd only just learned how to make warships a few years ago and then murdered all their WoB advisors in a bloody, bloody covert war, so that warranty may just be smoke.

That said, I do like the idea.  Sounds both like a lot of fun, and the sort of thing that someone like a really, really wealthy Interstellar Expeditions would do.  Is a Vincent ideal?  Well, it is very available (the nation two jumps over can whip one up in a few months), not ridiculously expensive (I suppose we could also have sold you an updated 2372 Aegis, with four drop collars and 128k tons of cargo for 390 crew, plus respectable armor and a reasonably formidable arsenal, for only about four times the cost, given the mechanics of the game at the time) and there's a sort of sense of "what else do you do with it" since Niops at the time was sandwiched between a naval superpower and a tributary vassal state of another naval superpower.  One possible good alternative ship would be the Wagon Wheel, since it has solid cargo, drop collars, but importantly those stupid enormous grav decks, which would be really useful on a five year mission.  But, it's vastly pricier and (fluff about the grav decks aside) a genuinely useful fighter, so unless your expedition finds some really lucrative treasure, it's probably going to be a Vincent.

I'd definitely invest in a good machine shop.  A really good one. 

After that, it's pretty much all said.  A lot of it just comes down to how you want to explore.  Niops was mainly about astronomical data, so the question is weather you're after just more of the same, and you want to go a thousand light years out with a giant telescope, or weather you already know where you want to go and you just need to go there.  I think the second case is more likely (though I'd still pack a big telescope and some astronomers, since you'll be able to see around some gas clouds and nebula and things and still keep up the old work) so lots of the work will involve going to systems known to have planets, and that means an emphasis on drop shuttles and ground teams, as well as orbital surveys. 

As for protection, sure I'd take along some BA equipped marines for my landing parties (hard to replace red shirts a thousand light years out) and fill my fighter bays with quality fighters, but four NAC10s are more than just a pretty fireworks show (I might take some extra ammo, since it's not too heavy and you'd hate to run into pirates on your way home with low magazines).  It's hard to imagine pirates with enough air power to really pose a threat.
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cray

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The Cruiser class also carries 48 NAC/10, 24 Barracudas and 6 White Sharks, and was originally meant to lob nukes at people.  While you'd probably be OK during the Star League era, since it's considered long obsolete then, during the Civil War/Jihad era I'm looking at, that's almost 3.5 times the broadside of a Fox class, and in the ballpark of a Kyushu class frigate.

Gee, I didn't quite realize it added up to that much firepower. Now I need to look closer at my "fall of the Western Alliance" alternate history idea.

Thread jack!

Hokey, I take it?

I enjoyed Alien:Covenant. It wasn't the movie of the century, but it did everything right that Prometheus got wrong (i.e., it explained stuff instead of leaving you confused.) And it stuck to Aliens' roots as 1) something of a horror story, and 2) an excuse to look at HR Gieger (sp) artwork. I also liked that it retconned Aliens vs Predator films out of existence.
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Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

idea weenie

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Rough equation for break points:

Days = 200/9 * (Quarters Mass - Bays Fixed Mass)
This is the number of days before the selected Quarters are a better deal than a Bay (assuming 1/200 tons per day needed for Quarters and 1/20 needed for a bay).  Assuming the bay Quarters are Zero mass and you are going with 5 ton quarters, that makes it 112 days before Quarters are a better deal, 156 for 2nd Class, and 223 days for 1st Class.  Since this is a five year mission, follow the advice given and and toss everyone in quarters.  Given the duration, you probably ought to toss everyone in 1st Class and 2nd Class, instead of 2nd and Standard.

Just moving in the 32 bay personnel into Standard Quarters means instead of 2922 tons of food, you will be consuming 292.2 tons of food, and using only 160 tons for Quarters, saving you a total of 2469.8 tons.


One thing I'd prefer to do is change as much as possible to using energy based weaponry, and try to make all the energy weapons at most 2 different types.  This eliminates the need for ammo, and reduces the variety of spares  that have to be carried.  Try to make as few different types of items on board.  If using powered armor, make it the same design, but Omni'd.  Aircraft should be fuel cell or fusion, ditto for ground vehicles.  You might even need a tailor to handle torn or worn out uniforms on a long mission.

Giovanni Blasini

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Gee, I didn't quite realize it added up to that much firepower. Now I need to look closer at my "fall of the Western Alliance" alternate history idea.

Yeah, when you look at the actual weaponry, it's kind of daunting:

Cruiser class: 48 NAC/10, 24 Barracudas, 6 White Sharks, 348 armor points, 75 SI, 210 point broadside firepower.
Aegis (2372) class:  48 NAC/10, 12 White Sharks, 12 NL55, 4 NL45, 586 armor points, 75 SI, 249 point broadside firepower.

So, 2/3 the mass, more or less, same structural rigidity, same thrust, 84.3% the Aegis' firepower, and 60% of its armor.  It's actually pretty comparable to the 2372 Aegis, just makes a few inopportune choices in its configuration.  Sure, by the 28th Century it's clearly obsolete, but the Cruiser class is actually mean for its era.

Quote
Thread jack!

I enjoyed Alien:Covenant. It wasn't the movie of the century, but it did everything right that Prometheus got wrong (i.e., it explained stuff instead of leaving you confused.) And it stuck to Aliens' roots as 1) something of a horror story, and 2) an excuse to look at HR Gieger (sp) artwork. I also liked that it retconned Aliens vs Predator films out of existence.

My wife liked the AvP movies, and I'm not sure if she used to read those comics, so she might be peeved by that.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Lot's of FGC reminisces these days.  If memory serves, you got the Vincents off the FWL, which means they would have been really new builds, still with that new warship smell and industry leading 100,000 light year warranty. It also makes simple changes easy, since you can just specify them on the order sheet.  Of course, they were also built by folks who'd only just learned how to make warships a few years ago and then murdered all their WoB advisors in a bloody, bloody covert war, so that warranty may just be smoke.

Yep, bought both the NMS A Momentary Lapse of Reason and the NMS Neko Bijin off the FWL.  Also had the NMS Melusine, a Naga I bought off the Marian Hegemony, as I recall, and four domestically-built Trackers.

Quote
That said, I do like the idea.  Sounds both like a lot of fun, and the sort of thing that someone like a really, really wealthy Interstellar Expeditions would do.  Is a Vincent ideal?  Well, it is very available (the nation two jumps over can whip one up in a few months), not ridiculously expensive (I suppose we could also have sold you an updated 2372 Aegis, with four drop collars and 128k tons of cargo for 390 crew, plus respectable armor and a reasonably formidable arsenal, for only about four times the cost, given the mechanics of the game at the time) and there's a sort of sense of "what else do you do with it" since Niops at the time was sandwiched between a naval superpower and a tributary vassal state of another naval superpower.  One possible good alternative ship would be the Wagon Wheel, since it has solid cargo, drop collars, but importantly those stupid enormous grav decks, which would be really useful on a five year mission.  But, it's vastly pricier and (fluff about the grav decks aside) a genuinely useful fighter, so unless your expedition finds some really lucrative treasure, it's probably going to be a Vincent.

I remember you offering to sell me the 2372 Aegis, actually.  I just couldn't afford one due to how much the damn things cost to build.  I think they were the cost of 10 Trackers.

Quote
I'd definitely invest in a good machine shop.  A really good one. 

After that, it's pretty much all said.  A lot of it just comes down to how you want to explore.  Niops was mainly about astronomical data, so the question is weather you're after just more of the same, and you want to go a thousand light years out with a giant telescope, or weather you already know where you want to go and you just need to go there.  I think the second case is more likely (though I'd still pack a big telescope and some astronomers, since you'll be able to see around some gas clouds and nebula and things and still keep up the old work) so lots of the work will involve going to systems known to have planets, and that means an emphasis on drop shuttles and ground teams, as well as orbital surveys. 

As for protection, sure I'd take along some BA equipped marines for my landing parties (hard to replace red shirts a thousand light years out) and fill my fighter bays with quality fighters, but four NAC10s are more than just a pretty fireworks show (I might take some extra ammo, since it's not too heavy and you'd hate to run into pirates on your way home with low magazines).  It's hard to imagine pirates with enough air power to really pose a threat.

Part of my idea was Star Trek parody, actually.  Lots of brief planetary visits, with longer follow-up by more dedicated science teams later.  But, yeah, emphasis on astronomy.
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Giovanni Blasini

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OK, in looking back at everyone’s responses, and trying to consolidate, here’s what I’ve got so far:

Goal:  Something Star Trekish, with an intrepid band of explorers going off on a 5-year mission to explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and lost civilizations, and not get blown up in the process.  To boldly go where no Niopan has gone before, and then survive to tell the tale.

Requirements:
   Sufficient cargo capacity and supplies for mission duration of that length
   Ability to support teams of redshirts surface exploration teams for initial exploration
   Identify interesting targets for follow-up detailed exploration
   Not get blowed up.

Options:

Aegis Class Cruiser (2372 version)
  • Pros:  Relatively durable, decent cargo and DropShip capacity, can blow stuff up good, even if not as well as its later refit.
  • Cons:  Big ship, needs lots of resources/money to field, attracts lots of the wrong kind of attention, especially from folks like the Word of Blake, and less likely to be sold to Niops by the FWL.
  • Neutral:  A prohibitively expensive exploration program could help explain what led to the Niops Civil War in canon, as well as the later interest from the Word of Blake that resulted in the Wobbies throwing nukes around on Niops VII.  Sending something that big and powerful off to galavant about the Deep Periphery would also be bound to piss off camps back home, who’d probably rather see it stay home for defense.

Naga Class Destroyer
  • Pros:  Crapcan destroyer with stupid huge cargo capacity.
  • Cons: Only thing it offers over, say, the Vincent is a larger cargo capacity.  Fielding it would almost undoubtedly require the help of the Word of Blake.  Would still be more expensive to get operational than something smaller.  No DropShips whatsoever limits size of landing parties.
  • Neutral: Would also help explain a Niops Civil War, and WoB interest, even if less so than the Aegis.

Cruiser Class Cruiser
  • Pros:  BEER KEG OF DOOM!  Decently-powered ship, decent amount of cargo, has DropShuttle bays that could hold two ships for surface duties, as well as room for six small craft.  Awkward enough in usage that no major state would field one if they didn’t have to.
  • Cons: Tough enough ship to make other powers worry.  Old enough that finding equipment to operate in it would be problematic.  Absolutely no energy weapons, which hurts from an endurance standpoint, and the six small craft bays would have to handle both shuttles and fighters, since there are no DropShuttle fighter carriers, leaving you chronically short of both.
  • Neutral: Honestly, most of the limitations here seem the most interesting from a roleplay/storytelling standpoint.  A rustbucket ship threatening to fly apart if you look at it funny held together with bailing wire and chewing gum, constantly threatening to fall apart if the engineers look at it funny, but tough enough to stand up to Klingons and Romulans…er, pirates and Wobbies.

Vincent Class Corvette
  • Pros: Big enough to carry plenty of cargo.  Enough guns to scare off/hunt pirates, but not so powerful that it makes keeping it home almost mandatory.  Quick enough to outrun most bigger ships.  Reportedly good sensor platform.  FWL actually recovered two, one of which they gifted to the Word of Blake for their help with their WarShip program.  Ulsop Robotics’ involvement with the original ship is extra amusing.
  • Cons: Still not actually cheap.  Still no DropShips on canon versions.  FWL can’t actually build them in canon, and salvaged an old SLDF one with Wobbie help.
  • Neutral:  Ship class I’d originally planned to do this with in the FGC’62 game.  Continues to help explain Wobbie involvement with Niops in canon.  With 38 Marks of the Vincent before the Mk. 39, there's plenty of room to add a version, especially early on, that carries a DropShuttle bay or two, and would help explain why the Vincent ended up looking like a box with engines: room for the DropShuttle bays, and thus replacing the Cruiser class in the hauler category, which also might be why the Vincent was twice the size of other corvettes.

Bonaventure Class Corvette
  • Pros: Good sensors.  Cargo isn’t awful, though half that of the Cruiser or Vincent, but also half the mass.  Undergunned in general, so non-threatening to the bigger powers for the most part, though it does have a pair of NL35s for cooking turkeys when set to low power.  Would fit amusingly with the comment from the WoBS Sheridan’s captain in the Last Full Measure to be crawling around the Periphery.  Reportedly decent sensors.
  • Cons: Starting to get a bit thin on cargo.  Six fighters and two small craft doesn’t leave much for getting surface crews to the planet for exploration.
  • Neutral: The Martians might have been using it as a training ship that couldn't jump, but we know of at least one that survived to the 31st Century

Tracker Class Surveillance Ship
  • Pros:  “Warship?  Nonsense, we’re a Merchant class!”  Two docking collars for DropShips, reportedly decent sensors, four small craft, and some cargo.  Some modicum of weaponry.  Also has berths for 56 redshirts marines.  Was also used by FGC’62 Niops
  • Cons: None known to exist during the time period, unlike even the Bonaventure.  Ship better suited as a pirate commerce raider than as an explorer.  Cargo down to 23 kilotons, thus getting thin.
  • Neutral: Given its similarities to the Merchant class JumpShip, it wouldn’t surprise me to find out there are still cobbled-together Trackers pretending to be standard JumpShips operating as late as the 32nd Century.

Aquilla Class Primitive JumpShip
  • Pros:  No, hear me out here: the version of the Aquilla in Interstellar Operations carries two DropShuttles, 20 kilotons of cargo, 30 passengers, and is generally non-threatening, with only 20 machine guns for armament.
  • Cons: The reason it’s non-threatening is because it pretty much isn’t in its canon form.  Even the version that drops the DropShuttle bays for more cargo and adds a pair of AC/5s isn’t exactly heavily-gunned.  It’s also painfully old, and has a range of only 15 light-years per jump.  No published versions have jump sails.  Between the two of those, you’re going to have a real hell of a time exploring.
  • Neutral: IIRC, artwork somewhere shows a version with a sail, and the similarity with the TAS Charger indicates there might have also been an armed version.  Putting them into production again with some minor changes could fix some of their flaws, though they may be better off taking an Oberth/Miranda type role to a larger ship’s Constitution class equivalency.  More cargo than your average JumpShip and, once upon a time, it was pretty much the Inner Sphere standard for exploration and colonization, like during the Terran Alliance Exodus.

Nightwing Class Surveillance Ship
  • Pros: Some commonality, in theory, with the Aquilla, thanks to being so similar in mass and dimensions.  It’s certainly armed well enough to defend itself.  And, hey, it even has a pallet of sensors/spy gear that could be used for astronomical research, right?
  • Cons: Cargo is abysmal.  Four small craft ain’t many.  No DropShips.
  • Neutral:  Rip out the NACs for more cargo?

Bright Star Auto Scouts
  • Pros:  LOL.  Also, computers built by the same people who did the Vincent’s computers.
  • Cons: Not much cargo, only two small craft bays.  They’re insane.
  • Neutral: AI insanity can be funny.  Works great for precursor science ships. It’s Niops.  Word of Blake would probably consider nuking Niops on general principle, and sending out dozens of them could have really caused economic issues that pushed Niops to civil war.

Bug-Eye Class Surveillance Ships
  • Pros: Hey, Explorer Corps did it, right?
  • Cons: Published version has very little cargo, or fuel, or small craft, or much of anything else.
  • Neutral: Hey, we know Niops is working pretty heavily with the Explorer Corps in the 3130s-3140s, right?

So, thoughts?  Bonaventure followed by Trackers Merchants to do in-depth research?  Beer Keg Cruiser or Nightwing followed by Aquillas?  Vincent following Bright Stars?

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Cryhavok101

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Cruiser Class Cruiser
  • Pros:  BEER KEG OF DOOM!  Decently-powered ship, decent amount of cargo, has DropShuttle bays that could hold two ships for surface duties, as well as room for six small craft.  Awkward enough in usage that no major state would field one if they didn’t have to.
  • Cons: Tough enough ship to make other powers worry.  Old enough that finding equipment to operate in it would be problematic.  Absolutely no energy weapons, which hurts from an endurance standpoint, and the six small craft bays would have to handle both shuttles and fighters, since there are no DropShuttle fighter carriers, leaving you chronically short of both.
  • Neutral: Honestly, most of the limitations here seem the most interesting from a roleplay/storytelling standpoint.  A rustbucket ship threatening to fly apart if you look at it funny held together with bailing wire and chewing gum, constantly threatening to fall apart if the engineers look at it funny, but tough enough to stand up to Klingons and Romulans…er, pirates and Wobbies.


This would be pretty simple to manage by having fighters and small craft in cargo, and filling the bays from cargo with what you need in a given situation. You could carry enough of both small craft and fighters without too much trouble.

Personally, I like this one for it.

Giovanni Blasini

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This would be pretty simple to manage by having fighters and small craft in cargo, and filling the bays from cargo with what you need in a given situation. You could carry enough of both small craft and fighters without too much trouble.

Personally, I like this one for it.

It's starting to grow on me, too.  Been thinking of suitable names:

NMS Kegerator
NMS Free Guinness Bar Towels (from a running gag on Fark)
NMS Not Invented Here
NMS Frank Exchange of Views
NMS Lucid Nonsense
NMS Well I Was In The Neighborhood
NMS Just Testing
NMS Ultimate Ship the Second
NMS Boo!
NMS Stranger Here Myself
NMS Funny, It Worked Last Time
NMS A Momentary Lapse of Reason (after the FGC ship)
NMS What Are The Civilian Applications?

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Dragon Cat

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Vincent or Beer Keg
My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,79196.0.html - Part 3

Giovanni Blasini

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Vincent or Beer Keg

"NMS BEER KEG OF SCIENCE!"?

Also, holy crap, I just noticed the Beer Keg has 500 steerage passengers and 90 marines.
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Weirdo

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NMS Chemically-Induced Science

Awesome names aside, I'm liking the kegerator as a science ship.

Mention of the Bright Star made me think. Any thoughts about using Blackwasp drones reprogrammed as automated survey units?
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Giovanni Blasini

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Oh dear lord, that would be hilarious, wouldn't it?  VoidSeeker Interceptors with their Beagle Probe would work even better, but their XL engines would make them more expensive.

And all of a sudden, I'm seeing the science officer recommending the ship launch a "Mark 30" or "Mark 39" probe.
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And if it seems like it's a really big ship for the job, remove that the science ship you're trying to emulate was also a heavy cruiser. :)
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And if it seems like it's a really big ship for the job, remove that the science ship you're trying to emulate was also a heavy cruiser. :)

Quite true. :). Of course, while capital missiles make decent stand-ins for photon torpedoes, naval autocannons are probably closer to disrupters than swiss-army phasers.

And while the name may be long, "the Keg" is such an obvious nickname for it.

So, with that DropShuttle bay...Vulture and a Black Eagle for DropShuttles?  Couple of huge Manatees?  Maybe a Firefly...er, DroST bulk transport?
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For an Enterprise analogue, definitely one of the cruisers.  I'd pick the Aegis, since it's got a bit more capability outside of combat, and there's a way to think of it as 'available' (and because I'm more familiar with it).  The Cruiser is the more interesting choice, and would definitely work in the role.  You might make it out so that after seven centuries half the weapons are broken or something, to justify why it might not be used in a combat role (though it would still be enough to blow every pirate in ten score light years straight to hell). 

Problem is, Niops isn't the Federation, so perhaps the Enterprise isn't the right choice.  The Vincent and Tracker are both reasonable choices.  The Vincent has the cargo to be self sufficient and its a better fighter.  The Tracker has dropships, which offer a lot of flexibility that small craft don't, but is worse in a fight and has negligible cargo relative to the Vincent. 

There's a sense of being non-threatening with the Tracker or Aquila or Nightwing.  To me, that's less of an advantage.  Who would be threatened by a Vincent that would also be a threat to a Vincent?  What deep periphery power out there has the sort of navy to threaten even a baby warship?  Pirates, by contrast, are bullies and would doubtless run like hell from a Vincent, and be more encouraged to pounce on a Tracker.  Even leaving aside the information from ISP3, all we know about the deep periphery are nations like the Hansa and Jarnfolk, and isolated colonies like Farstar and Alfkerk.  The only likely threat would be a Wolverine colony, but assuming you don't think they ended up on Terra, the threat assessment for them would include a McKenna class warship among others, which would take every mentioned ship all at once (provided it had been maintained for two centuries).  So I wouldn't shy away from announcing your might for the most part.
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Vulture and Black Eagle would be my pick. You definitely want at least one mech carrier simply because mechs are so damned useful in weird environments, and the Vulture would be good for carrying foot personnel and their vehicles. Also, Black Eagles are just cool.
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Aquilla Class Primitive JumpShip
  • Cons: The reason it’s non-threatening is because it pretty much isn’t in its canon form.  Even the version that drops the DropShuttle bays for more cargo and adds a pair of AC/5s isn’t exactly heavily-gunned.  It’s also painfully old, and has a range of only 15 light-years per jump.  No published versions have jump sails.  Between the two of those, you’re going to have a real hell of a time exploring.
Sure, let's ignore the fluff suggesting Aquillas could be modified to fulfil other roles. Even as armed warships.
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Cryhavok101

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Considering the average distance between stars in the galaxy is about 5 light years, the 15 LY jump range on the Aquilla wouldn't be that crippling it you were planning on stopping at all the systems anyway. It would mostly affect the trip back home after the mission.

I still think the keg is the most interesting choice.

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Sure, let's ignore the fluff suggesting Aquillas could be modified to fulfil other roles. Even as armed warships.

You'll note that he's trying to stick to published designs. We know upgunned Aquilas existed, but the stats don't exist yet.
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You'll note that he's trying to stick to published designs. We know upgunned Aquilas existed, but the stats don't exist yet.

Exactly.

I mean, I adore the Aquilla. It's probably my favorite JumpShip by far, and I've certainly done my own share of armed versions, trying to recreate the Charger class, but we don't have any published versions of the armed versions yet, either the Charger class, or the Magistracy's version (though I stand by my statement that the Nightwing is probably the Q-ship equivalent), and going with strictly stock designs whenever I can gives me a common framework everyone shares that I can work with.

And, yeah, with its cargo, 90 marines and 500 passengers, the Cruiser class is probably perfect for this, with the synergies with the smaller Aquillas as follow -up ships (though we'll see how that works out once the Jihad kicks off) making the Aquilla a good Oberth equivalent.
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Whatever happened to the Kyushu-class frigate's "specially modified cargo shuttles" that were supposed to be capable of carrying two 'Mechs at a time from the WarShip to the planet?  Were they ever fleshed out?
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Whatever happened to the Kyushu-class frigate's "specially modified cargo shuttles" that were supposed to be capable of carrying two 'Mechs at a time from the WarShip to the planet?  Were they ever fleshed out?
No, just fan designs for them.

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Given the max shuttle size of 200 tons & the thrust needed to escape orbit........  I don't think those 2 mechs are very big,  but I'd love to see what TPTB eventually come up with.
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Starting with Maingunnery's Mk. 7 Trader, I count 130 potential useable tons in cargo, but that will leave you with an unarmed and fairly thin skinned variant.  If updated rules come out allowing bulk infantry bays as quarters, that could increase the cargo tonnage to 145.

They wouldn't be useable as combat dropped troops but at a secure LZ it would work fine.

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I'm beginning to suspect it was two lights or a medium in something like an Ares Mk I.
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Vulture and Black Eagle would be my pick. You definitely want at least one mech carrier simply because mechs are so damned useful in weird environments, and the Vulture would be good for carrying foot personnel and their vehicles. Also, Black Eagles are just cool.

I'm actually leaning towards a Black Eagle 'Mech carrier and the predecessor Black Eagle set up to haul vehicles as cargo.  Fewer designs to support and more parts commonality.
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Parts commonality is always a good idea. :)
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So, slight technical difficulty:  as I posted in the WSotW thread, the Cruiser class may be around 56,000 tons overweight.  Easiest fix, of course, is dropping the cargo down to around 37-38 kiloton range.  That...might have an effect on long-distance exploration a little bit.
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Cryhavok101

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If you are willing to mod it, you could gain tonnage back by switching out each NAC 10 for 5 Light SCCs. 5 Light SCCs do the same damage at the same range as a single NAC 10, but weight half as much. By my calculations you could get ~48,000 tons back. Those weapons in that quantity would run hotter though, so you might want to put some of that into heat sinks to account for it.

Other than cargo, the only other significant source of weight on that ship is gonna be the engine. Dropping the speed to 1-2 instead of 2-3 would net you 30,000 tons.

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If you are willing to mod it, you could gain tonnage back by switching out each NAC 10 for 5 Light SCCs. 5 Light SCCs do the same damage at the same range as a single NAC 10, but weight half as much. By my calculations you could get ~48,000 tons back. Those weapons in that quantity would run hotter though, so you might want to put some of that into heat sinks to account for it.

Other than cargo, the only other significant source of weight on that ship is gonna be the engine. Dropping the speed to 1-2 instead of 2-3 would net you 30,000 tons.

Yeah, if I'm going to mod, I'll either mix SCCs and maybe SCLs, or a smaller number of NACs supplemented by NLs, to gain back tonnage.

Looks like it's probably time for errata, though.
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Cryhavok101

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If you want to find a similarly old ship, I would point you towards the League Block 1. It's only a little larger, has 2 dropshuttle bays (and some fighter and small craft bays), uses a mix of naval lasers and ACs, and has small lasers for point defense. It has, by my calculations, over 100,000 tons of cargo. It has a lot less SI and armor, but it does go 3-5.


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how extensive a refit is this version of Niops capable of? swapping out bays seems like a fairly simple thing. replacing weapons and changing the cooling/power system? harder, but probably possible. changing the engine seems like it would be complex, since you're basically rebuilding most of the ship in the process.

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I'm going to operate under the assumption they can't improve armor, cooling, engines, or docking collars, no matter how early they started refitting the ship.  Changing bay contents would probably be feasible for the most part, as would adding life support and passenger berths.

Weapons?  I actually suspect capital lasers and PPCs may be easier than autocannons to a degree, since that's optics and particle accelerators, something science geeks should have some handle on.  That said, refitting a derelict Cruiser class would give example NACs to work from.
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given it is Niops, and being refit as an explorer.. whatever ship is picked should be big enough to fit one of the more advanced naval sensor suites, to reflect all the extra sensors and computers Niops would fit onto an explorer vessel.

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Considering the average distance between stars in the galaxy is about 5 light years, the 15 LY jump range on the Aquilla wouldn't be that crippling it you were planning on stopping at all the systems anyway. It would mostly affect the trip back home after the mission.

Arrange the mission route so the stars on the way back have to be mapped too.  You'd have one route headed out stopping at stars as close to 15 ly apart but still heading outward, do a bunch of surveys out past some distance, then on the return trip you'd map other stars that are as close to 15 ly apart, but still on the way back.

This way you'd have plenty of locations still to survey on both the outbound and inbound legs of the mission, while doing most of your science beyond some limit.  Since it is a 5 year mission, each leg could be 1 year long, and assuming only 10 ly travel per week (due to having to angle back and forth from star to star), you'd explore 50 systems on the way out, wind up 500 ly out at the end of the first year, explore a bunch of systems/oddities in one area for 3 years, then spend the last year heading back and mapping another 50 systems.  This is assuming you only spend 1 week per system on the legs, just mapping habitable zones and marking planetary orbits for follow-on teams.

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Or you could have a JumpShip make arranged meetings in select known systems on select dates thus extending your trip and allowing for crew transfers, replenishment, or new equipment

These could also be adventure hooks - the JumpShip is late, its nicked, raided, or brings quarrelsome crewmen if you're playing RPG
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https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,79196.0.html - Part 3

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Re: Kitting out a Vincent for long-term exploration - what to bring?
« Reply #62 on: 13 September 2017, 20:34:47 »
Catching up on my reading...

But, what about a Wagon Wheel?  Modify the two 300m grav decks to be the main crew quarters with lab space, exercise areas, and hydroponics as needed.  Downgrade the engines to 2/3 Thrust adding to cargo room and lowering crew needs.  Take two Behemoth Dropships loaded with whatever and lots of spare parts

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Re: Kitting out a Vincent for long-term exploration - what to bring?
« Reply #63 on: 14 September 2017, 06:25:28 »
I like the Dart Class Light Cruiser, though Cruiser Class Cruiser would be best if your going for the Dropshuttle capacities.
Dart was designed to be frontier ship working away from home a lot, having six DropShip collars is plus in my book.

As for names like
* Post-Dated Check Loan
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Re: Kitting out a Vincent for long-term exploration - what to bring?
« Reply #64 on: 14 September 2017, 08:16:04 »
* Scientific Instrument of Inevitable Results

I know Petey(as opposed to people who really need to know about Petey), but is this one from somewhere?
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Re: Kitting out a Vincent for long-term exploration - what to bring?
« Reply #65 on: 14 September 2017, 08:28:19 »
I know Petey(as opposed to people who really need to know about Petey), but is this one from somewhere?
Reworded Petey's original ship's name before the Taggit's guys renamed it. Makes more sense for the mission of exploration the ship doin.
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Re: Kitting out a Vincent for long-term exploration - what to bring?
« Reply #66 on: 14 September 2017, 08:37:47 »
*Tagon

Yeah, that's a very O'benn name. :)
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Re: Kitting out a Vincent for long-term exploration - what to bring?
« Reply #67 on: 14 September 2017, 17:20:02 »
You know, a Wagon Wheel escaping the Reunification War with, say, half her cargo converted into 4500 steerage quarters and 5 tons of consumables per passenger would let you run a nifty little space colony.
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Re: Kitting out a Vincent for long-term exploration - what to bring?
« Reply #68 on: 14 September 2017, 17:22:27 »
Larger grav decks and lots of fuel.
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Re: Kitting out a Vincent for long-term exploration - what to bring?
« Reply #69 on: 14 September 2017, 17:26:25 »
*Tagon

Yeah, that's a very O'benn name. :)

to be fair, making Ob'enn ship names is like shooting fish in the barrel of circular swimming.. just go for the most pretentious version possible.