Author Topic: Question about Betrayal of Ideals (Read 3527 times)

Robroy · « **on:** 27 July 2017, 04:46:39 »

I have not read the book, what I know about it is from Sarna and the forums. Which is probably why I am a little confused. So my question, is this a in universe book passed of by some as a propaganda piece and true history by others?

And if it is a in universe book, when is it released in the Inner Sphere?

RotS fan · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 July 2017, 05:09:59 »

It is not an in-universe book

Robroy · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 July 2017, 05:55:01 »

I saw a post saying it was but I was not sure it was a joke or not. Thanks for clearing it up.

Jaim Magnus · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 July 2017, 08:50:36 »

BoI is the true story of the Wolverine Annihilation (whether you like it or not!) Told largely from the perspective of the Wolverine leadership, but delves into the Widowmaker's and Nicholas Kerensky's mindset.

Based on your avatar, you're a Wolverine fan. I would highly recommend picking this book up.

Robroy · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 July 2017, 12:07:51 »

Yeah I have been meaning to pick it up. I just have a problem reading what is basically back story with no resolution to the big question.

Jaim Magnus · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 July 2017, 12:13:00 »

I get that, it seems unlikely we'll ever know the full truth of their fate. But, 'Betrayal' gives a depiction of what their society was like, where it differed from Clan norms, and possibilities of where it could have gone.

Tyler Jorgensson · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 July 2017, 17:16:04 »

As a Wolverine fan it will hit you right in the feels: it's a solid story set in four parts and shows the first steps of the evolution of the Clans. Also the cover art of the book is solid as well.

There may not be a complete resolution to the story but theirs a complete beginning to it.

Robroy · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 July 2017, 20:20:04 »

I don't mind that TPTB are not going to say what happened to the Wolverines / Minnesota Tribe. Sometimes things happen you never get an answer to. I am kind of happy that they actually said it is not going to be answered as opposed to "it might" or "wait and see".

Feenix74 · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 July 2017, 01:15:14 »

I too would recommend Betrayal of Ideals as novel worth reading. 25 years after I first was introduced to the Clans, I finally found my Clan.

The_Livewire · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 July 2017, 08:00:44 »

Quote from: Feenix74 on 29 July 2017, 01:15:14

I too would recommend Betrayal of Ideals as novel worth reading. 25 years after I first was introduced to the Clans, I finally found my Clan.

So Say We All

Terminax · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 July 2017, 08:22:27 »

It's a good book. Aside from the characterization of the Wolverines, I found it interesting to see more of Nicky K and what he thought was good and proper and we see a glimpse of what would have been had he not been slain later.

The_Livewire · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 July 2017, 10:17:08 »

Quote from: Terminax on 29 July 2017, 08:22:27

It's a good book. Aside from the characterization of the Wolverines, I found it interesting to see more of Nicky K and what he thought was good and proper and we see a glimpse of what would have been had he not been slain later.

And it's fun to speculate what would have happened if he was slain earlier. :-)

Bren · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 July 2017, 11:31:17 »

Yep it's a good story and a well-written book - definitely worth it for a Clan Wolverine fan.

The trouble with it is that during the period of mystery from 1990-2006 a lot of fans had built up their own head-canon, characterizations and general feel to the mythological people and events in question ('rightly' so on a lot of cases, their thoughts on the events in question informed by older fiction that turned out to be in-universe propaganda of sorts).

This resulted in many fans hating on the story and/or dismissing it for going against what was built up in their head and what was laid out by previous writers (to a certain extent).

Myself included.

Robroy · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 July 2017, 13:41:19 »

My head canon for them dealt mostly with what happened to them after the raids on the Inner Sphere. As for the Wolverin origin story, it always felt a little off to me. Maybe that is what the writers were going for, part of the story had always been that the Clans history had been rewritten.

Now I wonder, do the Snow Ravens remember the truth? Their saKhan Joyce Merrell lived at least a few years after her official date of death. Maybe this is one of the unspoken reasons for the fleet, so the can leave if they need to.

Feenix74 · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 July 2017, 00:08:44 »

If the Snow Ravens do remember the truth then it would have to be an oral history that is handed down from generation to generation. It would be too dangerous to have that written down in any form that would give Nicky K or his "supporters" a reason to declare a Trial of Annihilation against the Snow Ravens.

Luciora · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 July 2017, 07:24:07 »

No clan is going to say "whoops, my bad, they were cool all along" after what transpired with Nicholas and McEvedy. It's a very tragic story for the only group that had any common sense left in the clans.

Quote from: Feenix74 on 30 July 2017, 00:08:44

If the Snow Ravens do remember the truth then it would have to be an oral history that is handed down from generation to generation. It would be too dangerous to have that written down in any form that would give Nicky K or his "supporters" a reason to declare a Trial of Annihilation against the Snow Ravens.

SethsMatches · « **Reply #16 on:** 02 August 2017, 05:40:20 »

That's what The Society was for! :P In the Wars of Reaving sourcebook there's a passage about how The Society rebels are spreading propaganda about 'the true history of The Wolverines' on Strana Mechty to drum up support for their revolt.

It would appear that at least parts of what really happened is remembered/kept somewhere/somehow in Clan society...

Robroy · « **Reply #17 on:** 02 August 2017, 06:31:39 »

Quote from: SethsMatches on 02 August 2017, 05:40:20

That's what The Society was for! :P In the Wars of Reaving sourcebook there's a passage about how The Society rebels are spreading propaganda about 'the true history of The Wolverines' on Strana Mechty to drum up support for their revolt.

It would appear that at least parts of what really happened is remembered/kept somewhere/somehow in Clan society...

Ah. This maybe the source of my confusion. Getting the story confused with the book. I may have to pick up Wars of Reaving also.

Frabby · « **Reply #18 on:** 02 August 2017, 08:27:22 »

Wars of Reaving is one of the best BattleTech sourcebooks ever. (And that's from a Clan hater.) You can't go wrong buying this book.

Robroy · « **Reply #19 on:** 02 August 2017, 09:38:52 »

Quote from: Frabby on 02 August 2017, 08:27:22

Wars of Reaving is one of the best BattleTech sourcebooks ever. (And that's from a Clan hater.) You can't go wrong buying this book.

Except it appears to be out of print. Might be good, not hundreds of dollars good, at lest not to me. And some people can't understand why I like Palladium Books.

Dulahan · « **Reply #20 on:** 02 August 2017, 14:00:03 »

Quote from: Frabby on 02 August 2017, 08:27:22

Wars of Reaving is one of the best BattleTech sourcebooks ever. (And that's from a Clan hater.) You can't go wrong buying this book.

I second this so hard.

One of the best GAMING books I've ever read, without a doubt at all. Just sterling.

Tyler Jorgensson · « **Reply #21 on:** 02 August 2017, 14:05:54 »

Last I knew it was Print on Demand

Robroy · « **Reply #22 on:** 03 August 2017, 09:02:09 »

Quote from: Luciora on 30 July 2017, 07:24:07

No clan is going to say "whoops, my bad, they were cool all along" after what transpired with Nicholas and McEvedy. It's a very tragic story for the only group that had any common sense left in the clans.

Not so much "they were cool" more like "Nick is crazy". With the rewriting of their history, hindsight being 20/20 they could remember how Khan McEvedy tried to warn then about Nick, and now they would know how far Nick was willing to go to secure his power.

ArkRoyalRavager · « **Reply #23 on:** 12 August 2017, 07:36:41 »

Quote from: Dulahan on 02 August 2017, 14:00:03

I second this so hard.

One of the best GAMING books I've ever read, without a doubt at all. Just sterling.

Thirded. Ben Rome set a new gold standard for BT SBs.

Talen5000 · « **Reply #24 on:** 13 August 2017, 10:28:44 »

Quote from: Robroy on 27 July 2017, 05:55:01

I saw a post saying it was but I was not sure it was a joke or not. Thanks for clearing it up.

There's a reference in WoR...p142...making an issue about the Society releasing a document that tells the "true" history of the events involving the Wolverines.

While it is an obvious reference to BoI, there is no explicit connection.

Most likely, it is a way to allow BoI to still be an in universe story, while allowing CGL to keep their options open on how true it is.

Which is fine by me...I'm not a fan.

Wrangler · « **Reply #25 on:** 13 August 2017, 17:31:18 »

Worth the buy. Really is.