Author Topic: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")  (Read 5127 times)

Liam's Ghost

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Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« on: 18 September 2017, 23:22:51 »
Haha, no in universe background yet, aside from hints in the rules. :P

Construction Rules:

These protomechs are built almost entirely in the same manner as clan protomechs. The internal structure, engine, cockpit, jump jet, and heat sink mass are all calculated in the same manner.

Inner Sphere protomechs do not have access to clan grade protomech armor, and must instead make use of armor equivalent to that used by support vehicles (Tech Manual Page 134) Armor of any barrier armor rating up to tech level E may be selected, however if Tech Level E BAR 10 armor is chosen, the armor occupies one of the protomech's torso weapon slots.

The typical armor utilized on these protomechs is Tech Level D BAR 10 armor, and weighs 63 kilograms per point.

Inner Sphere protomechs may mount any inner sphere ballistic and energy weapons that normally occupy six or fewer critical slots on a battlemech. As with clan protomechs, ammunition is allocated per shot, and energy weapons must have enough heatsinks (at 250 kg per heatsink) to dissipate all the heat they create.

Inner Sphere missile systems are added on a per-tube basis just like clan missile systems. Inner sphere protomechs may not mount MMLs. Thunderbolt missile launchers may be added in the same manner as standard ballistic weapons.

Missile Launcher weight per tube (IS)
LRM: 400 kg
SRM: 500 kg
Streak SRM: 750 kg
MRM: 300 kg
Rocket Launcher*: 50 kg
ELRM: 900 kg
NLRM: 600 kg
Mech Mortar: 800 kg
*Rocket Launchers are one shot weapons, and thus do not require additional mass for ammunition. The range of the rocket pack is dependent on the number of tubes it includes. 1 to 10 tube packs use the range of the Rocket Launcher-10. 11-15 packs use the range of the Rocket Launcher 15, and packs larger than 15 use the range for the Rocket Launcher 20

Missile Ammunition weight by type (IS)*
LRM: 8.33 kg per missile
SRM: 10 kg per missile
Streak SRM: 10 kg per missile
MRM: 4.17 kg per missile
ELRM: 11.11 kg per missile
NLRM: 8.33 kg per missile
Mortar: 31.25 kg per shell
*Protomechs equipped with improved one shot versions of their missile systems do not need to pay additional mass for the single shot of ammunition.

Other weapon ammunition weight by type (IS)
AC-2/LB-2X/LAC-2/UAC-2/RAC-2: 22.22 kg per shot
AC-5/LB-5X/LAC-5/UAC-5/RAC-5: 50 kg per shot
LB-10X: 100 kg per shot
Light Gauss Rifle: 62.5 kg per shot
Light/Standard Machinegun: 5 kg per shot
Heavy Machinegun: 10 kg per shot
Vehicle Flamer: 50 kg per shot
Plasma Rifle: 100 kg per shot
AMS: 83.33 kg per shot
Narc Beacon: 166.67 kg per shot
Improved Narc Beacon: 250 kg per shot
Sprayer (mech): 100 kg per shot
Fluid Gun: 50 kg per shot
Hyper Velocity AC-2: 33.33 kg per shot
Hyper Velocity AC-5: 66.67 kg per shot
Magshot Gauss Rifle: 20 kg per shot
Light Rifle: 55.56 kg per shot
Medium Rifle: 111.11 kg per shot
Heavy Rifle: 166.67 kg per shot
Battlemech Taser: 200 kg per shot
Thunderbolt-5: 83.33 kg per shot
Thunderbolt-10: 166.67 kg per shot
Thunderbolt-15: 250 kg per shot
Thunderbolt-20: 333 kg per shot

Additional Equipment Available to Inner Sphere Protomechs

While the original clan program was intended to produce cheap, easy to construct combat platforms, the Helenstern program desired a more multi-role special operations platform. As such, a wider array of equipment was adapted for use by the Helenstern protomechs.

A Pods*
B Pods*
Anti Missile System
Narc Beacon
Improved Narc Beacon
Beagle Active Probe
Guardian ECM
TAG
C3 Slave
C3 Command**
C3i
Communications Equipment
Sprayer (mech)
Bloodhound Active Probe
Angel ECM
Chaff Pod
Remote Sensor Dispenser
Vehicular Mine Dispenser
Vehicular Grenade Launcher
M-Pod
Protomech Melee Weapon***

*A-Pods and B-Pods must be torso mounted, and may be detonated during any weapon attack phase, inflicting damage in accordance with standard rules found on Total Warfare page 130.
**The C3 Command Computer may only be mounted on Ultraheavy protomechs
***The Inner Sphere Protomech Melee Weapon is functionally identical to the clan version.

Exotic Equipment

The Helenstern program has also produced a few examples of exotic equipment to augment their experimental protomechs, with at times only questionable results.

Fuel Cell and Electric Engines: Researchers experimented with non-fusion engines not as a way to reduce cost, but as a way to reduce the protomech's sensor signature. Though functional non-nuclear engines were developed, they never managed to meet expectations.

Rules: A fuel cell engine weighs 1.25 times the mass of an equivalent fusion engine, while an electric engine weighs a prohibitive 3 times the mass of a fusion engine. Both types have a short range (100 kilometers) and, because they were custom built for a highly specialized role, offer no cost savings over standard fusion engines

Triple Strength Myomers: Devised as a relatively easy means of boosting protomech performance, there remain a few hurdles to overcome. The high heat required by modern versions of the myomers made them wholly unsuited to use by protomechs. As such, the Helenstern project went back to the original formula, with all its limitations

Rules: These triple strength myomers grant all the bonuses and penalties of prototype triple strength myomers (Interstellar Operations page 104). For absolute clarity, triple strength myomers double the damage of a protomech frenzy attack (as well as doubling the damage bonus of any equipped protomech melee weapon), and double the protomech's lifting capability. They also impose penalties to maintenance and repair, and remain susceptible to green gas munitions, as detailed in Interstellar Operations.

Stealth Armor: Perhaps due to wishful thinking, the Helenstern made a valiant attempt at adapting battlemech stealth armor to a protomech. The result is arguably functional, but the extra mass required to support the armor limits what such stealth mechs can actually do on the field. 

Rules: Stealth armor weighs 63 kg per point of protection, requires an ECM of some sort to function, and additionally requires that ten heat sinks (above those already required for weapons) are included in the design. Once you have all of that, it functions exactly like battlemech stealth armor (total warfare page 142)

Full Sized Cockpit: While the first protomech cockpits produced under Helenstern were of the same standard design adapted by the Word of Blake (complete with the need to remove limbs to fit an adult pilot), Director Gutenberg acknowledged the concern that relying on such extreme measures would greatly limit their available pool of potential pilots. Her original solution of employing adolescents was likewise deemed impractical for widespread deployment. As an alternative, engineers adapted the enlarged cockpit developed for ultra-heavy protomechs to the smaller designs.

Rules: This simply allows the use of the ultraheavy protomech cockpit on standard sized cockpits. As a refresher, the ultraheavy cockpit masses 750 kg, includes an ejection system, and can accept a normal sized pilot.


Mixed Tech:
If built as a mixed tech design, the protomech may be equipped with clan weapons, standard protomech armor, or tech level F support vehicle armor up to a barrier rating of 10 (tech F BAR 10 armor occupies a single torso weapon slot, so the only reason to use it over true protomech armor in this case would be fluff related).

Be wary that your mixed tech design doesn't turn into a straight clan protomech. Otherwise, what's the point of all this writing I've done?
« Last Edit: 25 September 2017, 00:39:35 by Liam's Ghost »
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Col Toda

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #1 on: 20 September 2017, 01:20:55 »
Clan protomech units are used by washed out warriors that failed to become real mech warriors . They exist because of a cultural mindset . The WoB made proto mech sized drones . I submit if the Inner Sphere embraced the idea at all that is the route they would take . Hail the Drone Jocky

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #2 on: 20 September 2017, 05:06:03 »
The word of blake protomechs were actual protomechs adapted to DNI whose pilots had their limbs removed to fit in the cockpit.

Also, this isn't really a question of an inner sphere state embracing them so much as a black operations organization with highly utilitarian ethics experimenting with them, primarily because you can deploy them from a small craft.  I assure you, they've put a great deal of thought into the whole "quality of life" issue, and they've made great strides in that regard...
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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dragonkid11

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #3 on: 20 September 2017, 20:26:44 »
Ultra Protomech designed by the Society can use normal Elemental pilot without EI by controlling the Protomech via a battle armor like control system, right?

Maybe IS protomech should all be in Ultra size if that's the case.
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Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #4 on: 20 September 2017, 23:31:54 »
As I recall, yes, ultraheavy protomechs can use normal sized people as pilots.

But I'm not going to limit myself. Petite individuals, Dwarfism, children, amputees, there's a lot of room for pilots even for the standard sized protomechs if your ends justify enough of your means. I suppose you might even be able to fit an ultraheavy cockpit in a standard sized frame, if you want to be all humane about it.

I'm planing on three example chassis (5 tons, 9 tons, and 14 tons) with a wide variety of variants, as well as some brief in universe information to explain the reasoning of those behind this particular branch of the Helenstern program.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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wesharrisb

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #5 on: 20 September 2017, 23:33:43 »
5, 10 and 15 tons. Integrated with a PAL suit as an interface device, incorporate LFE, Composite internal, and HFF tech to give it more of an IS feel. Simplify the weapon selections, and you've got a fairly flexible system.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #6 on: 20 September 2017, 23:37:51 »
5, 10 and 15 tons. Integrated with a PAL suit as an interface device, incorporate LFE, Composite internal, and HFF tech to give it more of an IS feel. Simplify the weapon selections, and you've got a fairly flexible system.

Yeah, no. For various reasons.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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wesharrisb

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #7 on: 21 September 2017, 02:18:57 »
IS Protomechs wouldn't even be called Protomechs, probably something like Warsuits or some such. Treated as heavier Battle armor, and deployed en-mass as a distraction or in sizable quantities a useful assault tool against a fixed installation or some sort of city / industrial site. Certainly offering more flexibility versus more traditional mechs, while also losing quite a deal of speed that such light things usually have.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #8 on: 21 September 2017, 03:45:11 »
Umm... no? Please stop telling me how I should do things?
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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wesharrisb

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #9 on: 21 September 2017, 03:47:27 »
Suggestions certainly are not commands, these are open topics, not closed.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #10 on: 21 September 2017, 03:51:13 »
Except you aren't making suggestions. You're speaking in absolutes.

5, 10 and 15 tons. Integrated with a PAL suit as an interface device, incorporate LFE, Composite internal, and HFF tech to give it more of an IS feel. Simplify the weapon selections, and you've got a fairly flexible system.

IS Protomechs wouldn't even be called Protomechs, probably something like Warsuits or some such. Treated as heavier Battle armor, and deployed en-mass as a distraction or in sizable quantities a useful assault tool against a fixed installation or some sort of city / industrial site. Certainly offering more flexibility versus more traditional mechs, while also losing quite a deal of speed that such light things usually have.

You're speaking in absolutes, making declarations of how they should be. Not a single "have you considered" or offering a single explanation behind what your reasoning is. It is entirely unhelpful and confrontational.
« Last Edit: 21 September 2017, 03:52:57 by Liam's Ghost »
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

wesharrisb

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #11 on: 21 September 2017, 04:38:58 »
Certainly helpful enough for others to consider fluffing out a campaign, BT is awesomeness personified.

Suralin

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #12 on: 23 September 2017, 23:52:54 »
Interesting. It looks a lot like the Inner Sphere Protos I came up with a long while ago, but somewhat more simplified. (I went the route of having a gyro and bulkier cockpit instead of DNI, primarily for fluff reasons.)

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #13 on: 24 September 2017, 04:48:39 »
Interesting. It looks a lot like the Inner Sphere Protos I came up with a long while ago, but somewhat more simplified. (I went the route of having a gyro and bulkier cockpit instead of DNI, primarily for fluff reasons.)

I'll have to give them a gander.

Truth is, unless inner sphere scientists can solve the whole "brain degradation" thing with DNI, somehow fitting a gyro into a protomech is probably the only way one would see them in widespread use. Which is a shame. They're small enough that you don't even need a full sized dropship to deploy them, which makes them handy for smaller jobs.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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I am Belch II

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #14 on: 24 September 2017, 06:08:43 »
I think the IS should focus more on 10 and 15 ton mechs over protomechs. Seem like you can have a good design with 10 tons.
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dragonkid11

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #15 on: 24 September 2017, 06:15:54 »
I think the IS should focus more on 10 and 15 ton mechs over protomechs. Seem like you can have a good design with 10 tons.

10 tons and 15 tons Battlemech are simply too fragile for whatever task you have in mind for them. Heck, most 20 tons are stretching the speedy survival line already and as soon as they get hit, they are goner.

Where on the other hand, Protomech can really take some punishment and dodge some incoming damage due to their small sized.
On behalf of the Berserker,
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #16 on: 24 September 2017, 06:54:55 »
10 tons and 15 tons Battlemech are simply too fragile for whatever task you have in mind for them. Heck, most 20 tons are stretching the speedy survival line already and as soon as they get hit, they are goner.

Where on the other hand, Protomech can really take some punishment and dodge some incoming damage due to their small sized.

If I were a battlemech engineer in the inner sphere, I'd want to put a good hard look into finding ways to scale down the size of lighter mechs. Achieving anything close to protomech scale, though would probably prevent the use of more bulky advanced technologies, much like clan protomechs only get items roughly equivalent to standard engines (without the free heat sinks at that!) and internal structure. One might even limit any gyro used to the compact class. Which would be such a pain in finding the extra mass...
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

I am Belch II

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #17 on: 24 September 2017, 07:49:20 »
I forgot about the extra dodge rules for Protomechs that light mechs dont have. But a 4/6 15 tons protomech isnt going to last long either.
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Suralin

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #18 on: 24 September 2017, 08:42:59 »
I dunno, if you take a look at the Svartalfa 2 (SvartBeta), and you realize a Point of them can fling 150 LRMs downfield, the slow speed might matter less than you think. >:D

As for Gyros, the rule I used is that under 10 tons, the standard Gyro can work fine, and at half weight. (E.g. a 7-ton Proto with a 60 SFE would only need a 500kg gyro.)

With a smaller engine (under 50 rating) and no jump jets, a Small Gyro can fit in for the quite reasonable weight of 250 kg.

In hindsight, I feel like I should have given a minor gameplay penalty to the Small Gyro and more of a bonus to the Compact Gyro. But oh well.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #19 on: 24 September 2017, 16:16:19 »
I always found it strange that the Clans were the only group to try to bridge the gap between 2-ton assault BA and 10-ton BattleMechs.
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dragonkid11

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #20 on: 24 September 2017, 18:34:22 »
Main thing with Protomech is that they are also dirt cheap compared to battlemech and maybe even combat vehicle of comparable weight.

It was a sad thing that the only group in-universe attempted mass protomech swarm is the Society.

And there's also the fact that you could literally kill yourself if you ever fall in a ultralight battlemech due to how thin the armor is.
On behalf of the Berserker,
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #21 on: 25 September 2017, 00:40:40 »
The rules in the first post have been updated to allow the use of an ultraheavy protomech cockpit on a standard sized protomech, thus increasing the range of possible pilots.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #22 on: 25 September 2017, 01:08:05 »
And an example:

Though all three of the GP series chassis started development simultaneously, it is hardly surprising that the lightest, GP-5, was the first to reach field status. It is arguably the most conservative design, closest in layout and capabilities to its clan counterparts. The later prototypes are most notable for their use of a lighter weight armor composite, greatly saving weight at the expense of increased vulnerability to small arms fire. With the unit's envisioned role being support for special operations, this vulnerability is potentially dangerous, though additional experimentation and evaluation will be necessary to determine the full affect.

The majority of GP-5 prototypes were constructed using the standard protomech cockpit, greatly narrowing the available pilot pool. There have been very few willing to volunteer to have their natural limbs removed, even with the generous financial compensation the program allows its test subjects. And the use of Adolescent pilots, as advocated by Director Gutenberg, represents its own complications that have led to the Directorate to curtail experimentation. As a consequence, prototype GP-5E was constructed with the full sized "Ultraheavy" class cockpit. The loss of potential warload necessitated the use of a pulse laser rather than the previous prototype's medium laser, however the new weapon is expected to be a more flexible alternative given the unit's expected mission profile.


Chassis GP-5
Mass: 5 tons
Structure: 500 kg
Engine: 45, 1000 kg (6/9)
Cockpit: 500 kg
Armor (BAR 10, Tech Level D): 24 points, 1512 kg
H:4 T:10 A:2 L:6

Weapons and Equipment: 1488 kg
Prototype A:
Magshot Gauss, RA/LA, 12 shots per gun, 1480 kg

Prototype B:
Rocket Launcher 10, torso, 500 kg
Machinegun, RA, 57 shots, 785 kg
Rocket Launcher 4, LA, 200 kg

Prototype C:
2 MRM-2, Torso, 17 shots per launcher, 1484 kg

Prototype D:
Armor (BAR 7, Tech Level D): 27 points, 1215 kg
H:4 T:10 A:2 L:6 M:3
Medium Laser, Main Gun, 3 heatsinks, 1750 kg (1785 kg total payload)

Prototype E:
Armor (BAR 7, Tech Level D): 27 points, 1215 kg
H:4 T:10 A:2 L:6 M:3
Ultraheavy Cockpit, 750 kg
Small Pulse Laser, Main Gun, 2 heatsinks, 1500 kg (1535 kg total payload)
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #23 on: 25 September 2017, 01:28:59 »
While part of me wants ICE-based V-engines, fuel cells are probably close enough, and I'm digging the ultra-heavy cockpit option. Going to have to experiment with these tomorrow.
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Daryk

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #24 on: 25 September 2017, 09:33:45 »
I like the concept of expanding the use of the support vehicle armor table.  It looks like it might also be a way to harmonize the battle armor construction rules with the broader system.

Suralin

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Re: Inner Sphere Protomechs ("And I Feel Fine")
« Reply #25 on: 25 September 2017, 11:19:59 »
BAR 7 armor on a Proto? What hath math nerdistry wrought?

(Also, ICE engines on a Proto; I think I did that once or twice. Actually makes sense for garrison units IMO.)

 

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