Author Topic: MWDA: Spirit Cats and Protomechs? (Read 4453 times)

glitterboy2098 · « **on:** 06 October 2017, 10:19:03 »

checking out the MUL entries for my favorite proto's (Satyr, Gorgon, Roc) i notice that the Nova Cats were using most of them during the early Republic era, but they drop off faction list in the late republic and dark ages. while obviously part of this is the fact the Nova Cats more or less ceased to exist thanks to the Combine's actions, it does make me wonder about how the Nova Cats-Spirit Cat split might have effected their protomech corps.. the cultural split that led to the Spirit Cats started in the early republic era, as i understand it, and i have to wonder whether protomechs would have been a thing in the Republic Novacat Enclaves, giving the Spirit cats an opportunity to deploy some during their early actions in the 3130's.

that the Ravens continue to use Protomechs in fair numbers, also makes me wonder whether the Spirit Cats might not start buying Protomechs through the Sea Foxes, once both groups settled into the Clan Protectorate.

Stormlion1 · « **Reply #1 on:** 08 October 2017, 09:01:30 »

Honestly I don't see Protomechs as part of the Spirit Cat forces mostly due to how rare they probably were among the Nova Cats and how they probably were maintenance intensive and medically they need EI to function with there pilots. I don't see the Spirit Cat's having access to EI tech to upgrade there own troops (they are essentially a pirate faction after all) and this would severely limit the number of Proto's they would ever field.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #2 on:** 08 October 2017, 20:25:55 »

They had enough advanced technology to knit Julia's spine back together. And it was not needed enough that a set of gear and specialists could take the months traveling from Marik to Oriente to operate and help recover the daughter enough for travel. As for a source of ProtoMechs? Sea Fox partners who are selling them to other Clan factions.

With that said, I am not sure they would have the surplus population to be stuffing in ProtoMech cockpits. Part of living in the Republic seems to have eased their age biases even more than the Nova Cat norm- and the Nova Cats were different than other Clans in that regard. They seem to be using everyone they can get while keeping their culture primary, I do wonder how they are doing integrating other residents of the Protectorate into the touman. Protos are not really that maintenance intensive, they take up less resources than mechs after all. I am sure with the proper incentives the Foxes would set up some Proto production in the Protectorate- but again, why go through that bother when they are producing their own mixed tech mechs like whatever they responded to the Orion C with- Guillotine? Hercules?

glitterboy2098 · « **Reply #3 on:** 08 October 2017, 21:33:30 »

i take it the Nova Cats were not using many proto's before their destruction? making it hard to justify proto's showing up as Nova cat remnants?

what about the Sea Foxes themselves?

Colt Ward · « **Reply #4 on:** 08 October 2017, 22:06:51 »

I thought order of users were . . . Snow Ravens, Hell's Horses, Sea Foxes, and Warden Wolves which leaves out the Falcons, Crusaders and Bears. I know the Nova Cats had Protos on the FMU list but some questioned how wide spread they were . . .

Pretty sure the source, initially, of the Protomech tech with the Warden Wolves was the Diamond Sharks- in particular how they get some of the post-Serpent designs. They were the explanation for how Heimdalls ended up in the Homeworlds while Mercers, Miraborgs and Morrigu ended up with the Wardens. The Horses are another conduit going back to the arms trades of Pack Hunters, Heimdalls, collaboration on the Cygnus & Hellstar, and a few other items.

So yeah, Foxes would be IMO where their supply of Protos comes from since I stated my belief they would be trying to set up mech and then BA as their factories along with getting some sibkos churning.

Wonder how many orphans they took in from the fighting on Marik.

Stormlion1 · « **Reply #5 on:** 09 October 2017, 17:18:56 »

In a way I could see them adopting there use after they went to the FWL. If nothing else the Proto is a good way of stretching supply lines and adding forces cheaply. But I wouldn't expect more than a single type of Protomech to be adopted and there use would be defensive rather than offensive. And that would only be if they could get a manufacturing arm up to produce Proto's but also EI. The interesting thing though, what if instead of using young warriors fresh from sibko's they used older ones that are fit only for Solhama dutys?

Colt Ward · « **Reply #6 on:** 09 October 2017, 17:23:33 »

Spirit Cats had EI, IIRC Janis Nova Cat had it as a sign of her fanaticism . . . and like I said, they had enough resources in that area to go treat Julia.

Old warriors would not be worth it, you would have to retrain all their responses and skills. I do not think the Spirit Cats will show a age bias, they will have gone through a transformative process- the Fidelis threw off the bias to form their culture, and the Cats were already more accepting than any other Clan. The Nova Cats were one of the 3 Clans with a RAT for Protos in FM3085 with Satyr, Satyr XP, Roc, Roc 2, rare Roc 4, Gorgon, Chrysoar, Chrysoar 2 and Centaur as what they field . . . the amount of Satyr XP are interesting as they are tasked to support BA operations with SRMs. Roc is on there enough it should have a good representation.

I still think the Foxes maybe the supplier- for instance the Warden Wolves are known to use them but do not have a chart. I do not think we got anything specific saying the Foxes do not use them in small amounts- not like the confirmation the Crusaders, Falcons and Bears do not use them.

Pa Weasley · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 October 2017, 21:47:43 »

The Cats were never really heavy ProtoMech users and IIRC the Satyr XP fluff from Prototypes kind of indicated that is was a bit of a last gasp for the program with the Nova Cats circa 3080s. Given that the Republic/Combine Cat branching at this time there likely wasn't many ProtoMechs brought along to the RotS for the Spirit Cats to utilize later on.

glitterboy2098 · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 October 2017, 23:49:59 »

i just find it annoying that all the clan factions i want to build forces for don't use proto's. :-\

guess i'll put them aside for a hellhorses unit in the distant future or something. (better using the wrong variants than proto's where they don't belong at all)

Pa Weasley · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 October 2017, 20:20:00 »

When in doubt activate the "whatever works at your table" rule. You want a Spirit Cats force with Protos? Make a Spirit Cat force with Protos.

Wrangler · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 October 2017, 20:39:42 »

NOTE: This is my private opinion based me reading sourcebook and novels related to the Dark Age.

If the Spirit Cats fluff can be believed from the novels. They were no way in position to be ProtoMech users.
They were originating from within Republic of the Sphere. Any and all Spirit Cats who came from a military background came from Republic Guard unit where their enclaves were. They had know how, but they weren't really actively producing everything Nova Cats were supposedly making prior to 2nd Combine-Dominion War, which smashed entire Prefecture industries which were Clan based.

Survivors and Refugees migrated to the Republic, became it's own sub-faction in the Republic. I'll wager Kerenskies that they didn't have access to them. IF the Nova Cats still maintained any after the 2nd C-D war, those surviving units would been rare as heck and properly not among the survivors who made it to Marik.

Only canon-wise they Spirit Cats could have gotten them is through the Sea Foxes. They may have access to them and could make them to Cats if they felt they were need in their Clan Protectorate.

glitterboy2098 · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 October 2017, 21:30:35 »

do the Sea Foxes themselves use them much?

Colt Ward · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 October 2017, 22:34:55 »

They are not one of the Clans we are told that abandoned them, they were given as the reason why the Warden Wolves ended up with the tech and some of the later designs (same way the Nova Cats would have gotten the tech), but they were never given a RAT for Protos.

Wrangler · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 October 2017, 08:42:58 »

Only other way the Spirits could end up getting them is through Trial of Possession or bondsman from trials with Clans near the League border such as the Wolf Empire.

Tai Dai Cultist · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 October 2017, 09:54:37 »

Didn't the Nova Cats still use protos up until the end? After the DC Civil War there might be Nova Cat survivors among the Spirit Cats.

Wrangler · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 October 2017, 14:17:17 »

Quote from: Tai Dai Cultist on 22 October 2017, 09:54:37

Didn't the Nova Cats still use protos up until the end? After the DC Civil War there might be Nova Cat survivors among the Spirit Cats.

There no information what the survivors consisted of. They barely had enough to form a cluster of troops.
Directly from Field Manual: 3145 - Section for the Clan Protectorate Military.

Quote from: Field Manual: 3145 - First Noval Cat Provisionals

The Nova Cat Provisional Cluster is a relatively new formation
predominantly staffed by Nova Cat refugees seeking asylum in the
Clan Protectorate after fleeing the Republic’s collapse. According to
reports, the Cluster consists of three Trinaries of partially functional
’Mechs—and the occasional OmniMech—that have yet to see
proper repairs from fighting in the Republic. The Nova Cat refugees
were offered a place within the Protectorate military, but many of
them do not fully trust the Spirit Cats—

roosterboy · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 October 2017, 14:54:42 »

Note that those NC survivors were fleeing the collapse of the Republic, not their abortive rebellion in the Combine. There's almost none of the latter in the Protectorate ranks.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 October 2017, 15:16:19 »

Except one Nova Cat mystic showed up with a Cat JS . . .

Wrangler · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 October 2017, 20:30:14 »

Quote from: Colt Ward on 22 October 2017, 15:16:19

Except one Nova Cat mystic showed up with a Cat JS . . .

Where that from? I heard he just disappeared.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 October 2017, 20:57:57 »

I thought a 3150 entry announced it?

roosterboy · « **Reply #20 on:** 22 October 2017, 21:44:09 »

Two different things.

Mystic Kisho escaped the Combine and vanished, though his Wendigo was later discovered abandoned.

There is also a single Nova Cat warrior who escaped to the Protectorate though we don't know how exactly (s)he accomplished that.

Kitsune413 · « **Reply #21 on:** 23 October 2017, 09:51:37 »

A spirit cat protomech would be awesome.

Archangel · « **Reply #22 on:** 24 October 2017, 00:15:15 »

The Spirit Cats aren't likely to field protoMechs in significant numbers anytime in the near future given the difficulties just establishing a basic eugenics program for MechWarriors, Aerospace and Elemental phenotype (it will take 15-20 years and the basic fact that they can't continue to be completely reliant on the Sea Foxes for support. They need to establish their own basic military-industrial infrastructure for their existing forces before they start considering fielding ProtoMechs in any significant numbers. After all the Sea Foxes are providing their products and services for free and the Cats are quickly getting to the point of where all they have left to trade is themselves.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #23 on:** 24 October 2017, 01:20:07 »

Well . . . while the Clans recycle failed pilots into Protos, that is not all that can control the ProtoMech. Provided they can find the bodies, Protos are supposed to be cheaper to field . . .

I honestly think we are likely to see something in the Protectorate closer to the Dominion or Emperio in integrating the freebirths of the world into the armed forces- unlike the other two, I do not see the Cats having an option if they want to remain viable.

glitterboy2098 · « **Reply #24 on:** 24 October 2017, 01:49:01 »

honestly i really want more groups to use Proto's.. i get that they aren't exactly super popular, but the main users of Proto's were the homeworlders, and that leaves the type rather under utilized in the inner sphere after the Jihad. the Falcons and Wolves don't use them at all, the Nova Cats pretty much dropped them, the Spirit Cats evidently didn't have any to start with, the Ghost Bears never adopted them.. all you have are the Hells Horse (who at least do use them a lot), the Ravens, and maybe the sharkfoxes.. and that last one is iffy due to lack of info. so two clans that are largely isolated and minor, and one group with little info.. not a good time for protomech fans..

Kitsune413 · « **Reply #25 on:** 27 October 2017, 08:31:37 »

Quote from: glitterboy2098 on 24 October 2017, 01:49:01

honestly i really want more groups to use Proto's.. i get that they aren't exactly super popular, but the main users of Proto's were the homeworlders, and that leaves the type rather under utilized in the inner sphere after the Jihad. the Falcons and Wolves don't use them at all, the Nova Cats pretty much dropped them, the Spirit Cats evidently didn't have any to start with, the Ghost Bears never adopted them.. all you have are the Hells Horse (who at least do use them a lot), the Ravens, and maybe the sharkfoxes.. and that last one is iffy due to lack of info. so two clans that are largely isolated and minor, and one group with little info.. not a good time for protomech fans..

Well..... Just wait... Maybe the homeworlds will come back.