Author Topic: Cherries & Lemons?  (Read 12857 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Cherries & Lemons?
« Reply #90 on: 16 December 2017, 12:04:51 »
The early fluff, at least, says that missiles have much longer range than what is given in the rules, but can only HIT over those ranges because of the targeting systems. LRMs, for example, were fluffed to have a maximum flight range of several kilometers.

And the first page in the Batllemech Manual states that the ranges given are purely arbitrary because most people don't want to play on maps the size of tennis courts and like the way that faster units can maneuver in and out of weapon range instead of having everything come down to "I have line-of-sight, bang!"
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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NeonKnight

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Re: Cherries & Lemons?
« Reply #91 on: 16 December 2017, 12:34:17 »
Yes. Page 36 of TOTAL WARFARE:

Quote
A NOTE ON SCALE AND THE RULES
BattleTech turns represent ten seconds of real time, while each hex on a mapsheet represents thirty meters of a battlefield (for the exception, see Aerospace Movement, p. 74). However, players should note that such “real world” terms are abstractions when applied to the board game. BattleTech is a game, not a detailed simulation. Therefore, the real world must take a back seat to game play—for simplicity, length of play, space required and simple enjoyment.

For example, while only a single ’Mech can occupy a hex, it does not actually take up the entire hex. A 30-meter-wide hex offers plenty of room for a twelve-meter-tall ’Mech to move around and avoid fire. In real-world terms, another ’Mech could easily fit in that space as well. However, for ease of play, a ’Mech tactically controls the hex it occupies even though it does not physically fill that space. Therefore, only a single ’Mech is allowed in a hex.

Weapon ranges provide another example. Players will quickly realize that the longest-range standard weapon in the game can only hit targets out to thirty hexes (900 meters) from the attacker. Real-world primary main battle tank weapons have operational targeting ranges in excess of 4,000 meters. Because BattleTech mapsheets are only seventeen hexes long, recreating real-world ranges on a table would require more than seven mapsheets laid end to end, for a playing space greater than twelve feet in length. Not many people have that type of table space, nor would it provide players with any tactical maneuvering room. Anywhere a player might move a unit on the map, an attacker could hit that unit.

Finally, the abstractions of real-world factors such as firing distance often can enhance the aesthetic of the game universe. BattleTech has always been about “in-your-face” combat, which works best with closer ranges. Players are encouraged to remember such abstractions and not get bogged down in real-world mechanics and physics. Just enjoy the game!

And Page 8 of the BATTLEMECH MANUAL:

Quote
A NOTE ON
REALISM AND SCALE

Given the 30-meter area of each hex stated above, players may note various oddities in the weapon ranges presented in this book, such as the fact that the standard ’Mech-scale machine gun of the distant thirty-first century only reaches out to 3 hexes (90 meters). As today’s machine guns have effective ranges of some 2,000 meters, this may seem somewhat absurd.

The reason for this is simple: BattleTech is a game. Because BattleTech mapsheets are only seventeen hexes long, recreating realworld ranges on a table would require more than seven mapsheets laid end to end, for a playing space greater than twelve feet in length. Few people have that much table space. Nor would it provide players with any tactical maneuvering room: anywhere a player might move a ’Mech on the map, an attacker could hit it. As such, while we may safely assume “real” BattleTech weapons have exceptional ranges, range abstractions are an absolute necesity unless one is regularly able to rent a tennis court for game time.
AGENT #575, Vancouver Canada

Daryk

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Re: Cherries & Lemons?
« Reply #92 on: 16 December 2017, 12:50:47 »
And for completeness, page 85 of TacOps:
Quote
Extreme Range
Ranged weapons can fire at targets beyond long range, but such shots are difficult.
...

And further down the page:
Quote
LOS Range
For those playing truly large games across dozens of maps, players can institute LOS Range.  Note that for added realism, players can use the LOS Range rule in conjunction with the Visual Range Table found in the Double Blind rules (see p. 221), to provide a "hard number" of hexes that a player can visually see under a variety of Planetary Conditions: if you can see it, you can try to make an attack.
...

YingJanshi

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Re: Cherries & Lemons?
« Reply #93 on: 16 December 2017, 13:01:29 »
And then you have the wrinkle of fiction following the game rules.  ;D  (Best not to overthink it too much...)

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Dark Jackal

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Re: Cherries & Lemons?
« Reply #94 on: 16 December 2017, 13:04:04 »
Also, the same iffy-ness in ranges also applies to other TT games that are based on somewhat realistic circumstances like WW2 miniatures. Most of the combat in those games have the combat elements fight with close proximity to terrain and features in order to enable engagement and strategy. After all, a typical 2-12km slug fest with super computers on 'Mechs would be side lined by bigger fish in the universe like Aerospace and Dropships. ~500 meter ball park average seems ok for BT.

NeonKnight

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Re: Cherries & Lemons?
« Reply #95 on: 16 December 2017, 13:09:36 »
And then you have the wrinkle of fiction following the game rules.  ;D  (Best not to overthink it too much...)

Oh, you mean the 'rules guidelines' from Page 9 of Total Warfare ;):

Quote
FICTION VS. RULES
It is important to note that fiction, though essential in making the game universe come alive, should never be construed as rules. While BattleTech fiction usually attempts to adhere to the aesthetics established by the rules, authors often use creative license to accomplish the needs of a given story.

To eliminate confusion in Total Warfare about which sections are fiction and which are rules, the fiction sections have a unique look. In addition, all fiction sections are italicized in the Table of Contents.

FICTION AND ART
From the moment of BattleTech’s inception, it was conceived as a visually intensive universe. Though the Technical Readout series is one of the better examples of the importance of art in conveying the universe to a reader, every sourcebook employs art to work hand-in-hand with the fiction to bring the universe to life: from a stunning cover to the smallest illustration buried on a last page.

Even the graphic layout of rulebooks and sourcebooks—the borders around the edges of a page, how the words are placed on the page and so on—are specifically designed to accentuate the universe.

For Total Warfare, the graphic design concept is that of a computer interface. Specifically speaking, it is a computer from House Steiner’s (see A Time of War, p. 14) Nagelring; one of their premier military academies (for more information on House Steiner and specifically on the Nagelring, players should check out Handbook: House Steiner).

To further cement this concept directly into a reader’s mind, the art at the beginning of this section shows the very Nagelring military computer represented “in universe” by the text and layout of this rulebook.

Note that as with fiction, players should never construe art as rules. In a similar vein, while the diagrams used throughout this book are rules, players should note that the graphic icons within each diagram only represent specific unit types (‘Mechs, vehicles, infantry and so on). As such, players should not be confused by a specific unit image (such as the Mad Cat for the ‘Mech) used in an example, when its game stats do not mirror the example.
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SaltyDog325

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Re: Cherries & Lemons?
« Reply #96 on: 16 December 2017, 14:47:04 »
The rules don't actually mention anything like that, so I'd assume that they actually have their reach of 12 hexes.

On pg. 96 of Interstellar Operations under the Improved Standard Missile Launchers heading, it talks about how the Clans got the 12 hex range:
"Going a different direction, however, were the improved SRMs
that appeared a full year before the new LRMs. Utilizing more
powerful launch mechanisms, the early Clan weapons-makers
increased the SRMs’ effective range by one-third, even though
launchers themselves remained about the same weight and size as
their original counterparts."
Since they're talking about the launchers themselves, I'm thinking it's on the launcher side of things and not the ammo side.

Von Jankmon

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Re: Cherries & Lemons?
« Reply #97 on: 21 December 2017, 13:17:22 »
I know that my lasting legacy to Battletech is going to be the Hellbie Dice meme, but Apollo's Law is one that I wouldn't mind people remembering me for someday.

You made two lasting memes though.  I only have only made one.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.

 

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