Author Topic: Word of Blake Level IIs...  (Read 11579 times)

Armond

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Word of Blake Level IIs...
« on: 28 October 2017, 19:53:23 »
Hello, need some assistance in the composition of WoB Lvl IIs.  Do their formations tend to have a uniform composition, like having 6 of the same mech/vehicle in the same Lvl II or are they more of a one of each, maybe some duplicates type of composition?

I am trying to make a WoB Militia Lvl III eventually, but of course starting with IIs.  I picked up some key mechs that I felt were in their forces, but am not sure how to compose the force.  For instance, I have this as a potential Level II:  3x Nexus, 2x Raijin, 1x Grim Reaper.

I have other mechs for use by them, such as: Champion, Sentinel, Wraith, Exterminator, Emperor, Falcon Hawk, and a few others. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #1 on: 28 October 2017, 21:06:39 »
Like most Inner Sphere Lances (or Clan Stars) a Word of Blake Level II will be made up of different designs. It will vary depending on the unit, situation and whatever else, but having several different 'Mechs would be perfectly normal.

So your sample II (3 Nexus, 2 Raijin, 1 Grim Reaper) is perfectly normal and in fitting with typical Word-style formations.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #2 on: 28 October 2017, 21:58:46 »
Also many Lv.II's were a mix of mechs, Vee's, and BA/infantry. if you want to explore some combined arms.

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #3 on: 28 October 2017, 23:06:55 »
Each of the larger formations always had a Letter at the end (like 6th Division IV-Theta, for example) and the Letter (I think) represents the composition of the unit in question, yes?

Hellraiser

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #4 on: 28 October 2017, 23:46:22 »
Also many Lv.II's were a mix of mechs, Vee's, and BA/infantry. if you want to explore some combined arms.

I don't know about "Many",  IIRC the CSFM says "Most" L-II's are pure, but "All" L-III's are Mixed.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #5 on: 28 October 2017, 23:47:16 »
Ya, I just read about the various types of Levels.

I was definitely considering that as well. 

Nexus x2
Raijin x2
Grim Reaper
Huron Warrior

I have a decent amount of mechs available too (sorry for AS format):

Word of Blake

Exterminator-4D @35pts Skirmisher
Javelin-10N @18pts Striker
Stinger-3Gb @16pts Striker
3x Nexus-NXS1-A @16pts Striker
Cicada-3F @25pts Striker
Fire Hawk-9K1B @29pts Brawler
Raijin-200-A @37pts Skirmisher
Sentinel-3L @21pts Striker
Wolf Trap-B @25pts Striker
Cerberus-6B @52pts Brawler
Zeus-10WB @44pts Sniper
Thorn-N1 @13pts Sniper
Mongoose-66 @22pts Scout
Champion-3P @37pts Skirmisher
Ostscout-10CS @20pts Scout
Firefly-4C @22pts Striker
Crab-30 @33pts Sniper
Kintaro-20 @36pts Skirmisher
Shadowhawk-2H @20pts Skirmisher
Lancelot-01 @30pts Skirmisher
Bombardier-12D @36pts MBoat
Awesome-9M @41pts Brawler
Banshee-3S @45pts Juggernaut
HuronWarrior-R4L@33pts Skirmisher
Bandersnatch-01A @37pts Brawler
Emperor-6A @45pts Juggernaut

« Last Edit: 28 October 2017, 23:52:43 by Armond »

Hellraiser

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #6 on: 28 October 2017, 23:49:01 »
Hello, need some assistance in the composition of WoB Lvl IIs.  Do their formations tend to have a uniform composition, like having 6 of the same mech/vehicle in the same Lvl II or are they more of a one of each, maybe some duplicates type of composition?

I am trying to make a WoB Militia Lvl III eventually, but of course starting with IIs.  I picked up some key mechs that I felt were in their forces, but am not sure how to compose the force.  For instance, I have this as a potential Level II:  3x Nexus, 2x Raijin, 1x Grim Reaper.

I have other mechs for use by them, such as: Champion, Sentinel, Wraith, Exterminator, Emperor, Falcon Hawk, and a few others. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Your formation seems completely fine as an example of an medium Mech Level-II.
They are not like the SLDF with identical lances, though there is also nothing wrong with some duplicates/triplicates like you have since that keeps the unit focused on a specific roll/specialty.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #7 on: 28 October 2017, 23:53:27 »
I see mixed Level-IIs being uncommon, maybe 1-2 per Level-III formation, and usually in one of 3 key types/styles.


1.  Command/HQ
2.  Specialty  (Spec Ops, Artillery/Spotters, Deep Recon, etc etc etc.)
3.  Infantry + APC/IFVs

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nav_Alpha

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #8 on: 28 October 2017, 23:56:48 »
Helpful for working out the naming conventions, etc:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Com_Guards


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Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #9 on: 29 October 2017, 00:08:53 »
I figured that after some more reading and edited my mixed idea.

If I do a Command Lvl II:
Mobile HQ
Achiles BA x6
Exterminator-4D
Cyclops-10-HQ
Emperor-6A
Zeus-6S

Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #10 on: 29 October 2017, 00:09:21 »
Level III Composition

Command Level II:
Cyclops-11-A @38pts Sniper Size 4
Grim Reaper-PR29 @34pts Skirmisher Size 2
Exterminator-4D @35pts Skirmisher Size 3
Phoenix Hawk-3M @26pts Striker Size 2
Longbow-7Q @45pts Missile Boat Size 4
Fire Hawk-9K1B @29pts Brawler Size 1

Light Battle Level II:
Raijin-200-A @37pts Skirmisher Size 2
2x Nexus-NXS1-A @16pts Striker Size 1
Firefly-4C @22pts Striker Size 1
Wasp-3M @11pts Scout Size 1
Javelin-10N @18pts Striker Size 1

Heavy Battle Level II:
Bandersnatch-01A @37pts Brawler Size 3
Thunderbolt-7M @39pts Brawler Size 3
Crusader-5M @37pts Skirmisher Size 3
Champion-3P @37pts Skirmisher Size 3
Crab-30 @33pts Sniper Size 2
HuronWarrior-R4L @33pts Skirmisher Size 2

Assault Level II:
Awesome-9M @41pts Brawler Size 4
Warhammer-7M @35pts Brawler Size 3
Banshee-3S @45pts Juggernaut Size 4
Emperor-6A @45pts Juggernaut Size 4
Lancelot-01 @30pts Skirmisher Size 3
Zeus-6S @35pts Sniper Size 4

The last two will be a Level II of vehicles and a Level II of Infantry.  Or I was considering dropping one of the Lances and making it a bit less Mech dependent and maybe having a Level II of Armor Vehicles, Transport/Infantry Support Vehicles, and a Level II of Infantry(including BA).


Edited List of Available Mechs

Wasp-3M @11pts Scout Size 1
Mongoose-66 @22pts Scout Size 1
Ostscout-10CS @20pts Scout Size 1
Javelin-10N @18pts Striker Size 1
Stinger-3Gb @16pts Striker Size 1
Nexus-NXS1-A @16pts Striker Size 1
Firefly-4C @22pts Striker Size 1
Fire Hawk-9K1B @29pts Brawler Size 1
Thorn-N1 @13pts Sniper Size 1

Vulcan-5T @24pts Striker Size 2
Phoenix Hawk-3M @26pts Striker Size 2
Cicada-3F @25pts Striker Size 2
Sentinel-3L @21pts Striker Size 2
Wolf Trap-B @25pts Striker Size 2
Raijin-200-A @37pts Skirmisher Size 2
Kintaro-20 @36pts Skirmisher Size 2
Shadowhawk-2H @20pts Skirmisher Size 2
Wolverine-7M @32pts Skirmisher Size 2
Grim Reaper-PR29 @34pts Skirmisher Size 2
HuronWarrior-R4L @33pts Skirmisher Size 2
Hunchback-4G @28pts Juggernaut Size 2
Crab-30 @33pts Sniper Size 2

Warhammer-7M @35pts Brawler Size 3
Bandersnatch-01A @37pts Brawler Size 3
Thunderbolt-7M @39pts Brawler Size 3
Champion-3P @37pts Skirmisher Size 3
Exterminator-4D @35pts Skirmisher Size 3
Crusader-5M @37pts Skirmisher Size 3
Lancelot-01 @30pts Skirmisher Size 3
Bombardier-12D @36pts Missile Boat Size 3
Catapult-C1 @33pts Missile Boat Size 3
Archer-4M @45pts Missile Boat Size 3

Cerberus-6B @52pts Brawler Size 4
Awesome-9M @41pts Brawler Size 4
Banshee-3S @45pts Juggernaut Size 4
Emperor-6A @45pts Juggernaut Size 4
Highlander-732 @50pts Sniper Size 4
Crockett-5003-1 @48pts Sniper Size 4
Zeus-6S @35pts Sniper Size 4
Cyclops-11-A @38pts Sniper Size 4
Longbow-7Q @45pts Missile Boat Size 4

Will try and get vehicles worked out later.

Galleon-102 Light Tank @23pts Striker Size 1
Hetzer @15pts Ambusher Size 2
« Last Edit: 29 October 2017, 03:19:02 by Armond »

Hellraiser

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #11 on: 29 October 2017, 12:56:42 »
Your missing fighters.
All Level-3 formations have a bare minimum of 1 flight of 2 fighters.
The "Average" Level-3 has 6.5 Fighters, just over 1 squadron.

Your also very mech heavy.  Which is fine if your shooting for an Alpha-Zeta style formation.

When I design a "generic" Level 3, say something more in the Lambda area, I usually start with the following. 

4 Pure Level-IIs totaling 12 Mechs, 6 Fighters, 6 platoons of Infantry (36 men each = 12 x 18 man "unit counters".

This leaves me with 2 more Level-IIs that are some mix of BA, IFV/APCs, & Combat Vehicles.

I don't think of a Level-III as a "Battalion" strong fighting unit, its more of a Mech Company with a larger than normal combat support force.

It also conveniently fits in a single Overlord with plenty of Cargo Space left over.  ;)
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

NeonKnight

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #12 on: 29 October 2017, 13:29:12 »
Page 9 of BATTLETECH FIELD MANUAL: COMSTAR has the break down of division level assets. And Word of Blake uses the same breakdown.

Regardless of whether it is an ALPHA division or a ZETA Division, or an OMEGA it will have 39 Aerospace units.

And at the Division Level (or a LEVEL IV) a COMSTAR/Word of Blake has 216 units.

So, taking an ALPHA Division we have:

39 (Aero) + 164 ('Mech) + 4 (Armor) + 9 (Infantry) = 216

A ZETA Division:

39 (Aero) + 132 ('Mech) + 15 (Armor) + 30 (Infantry) = 216

and OMEGA

39 (Aero) + 15 ('mech) + 54 (Armor) + 108 (Infantry) = 216

Also, Word of Blake/Comstar is always Mixing up their units, so more often than not, a Level II could Have 4 mechs, 1 vehicle (Armor) and 1 Infantry (or Battle Armor). Again, depending on what type of (see above) Division it hails from.

Example 1st Division WoD (True Believers) is a BETA division so would Have:

39 Aero
158 'Mechs
6 Armor
13 Infantry
« Last Edit: 29 October 2017, 14:33:29 by NeonKnight »
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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #13 on: 29 October 2017, 18:21:29 »
My understanding of the list in FM: Comstar was that each level III in a division would be made of 5 level II of mixed mech/armor/infantry and the last level II be pure aerofighter for air recon/cover.

The ratio of mech/armor and infantry (BA or not) depend of the greek letter has stated. Also, I suppose that when they detail a division with the type of level IIIs, if there is 2 with the same greek letter (that would be the same as the division), the second level III would have the 3 extra aerofighter replacing some mech/armor/infantry.

Here is my vision of the TO & A for Comstar' 11th division circa 3062 (as per Sarna)

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #14 on: 29 October 2017, 19:29:27 »
My understanding of the list in FM: Comstar was that each level III in a division would be made of 5 level II of mixed mech/armor/infantry and the last level II be pure aerofighter for air recon/cover.

The ratio of mech/armor and infantry (BA or not) depend of the greek letter has stated. Also, I suppose that when they detail a division with the type of level IIIs, if there is 2 with the same greek letter (that would be the same as the division), the second level III would have the 3 extra aerofighter replacing some mech/armor/infantry.

Here is my vision of the TO & A for Comstar' 11th division circa 3062 (as per Sarna)

While I myself like the idea of a pure L2 of ASF, it doesn't have to be that way.
The ASF total is 39, and while I originally felt that had to be a typo, someone pointed out to me, that could be read as the average & that 1/2 the Divisions have 36 while the other half have 42. 
So 1 in 12 Level-3's would have 12 fighters instead of 6.  Not too outlandish if that L3 happens to cover an airbase or moon base.

What we do know is that the FMCS clearly states that fighters are always deployed in at least pairs, never singles, & that every Level-III contains aerofighters.
So it could be only 2, but I like going with the "averages" idea of 6 with an odd extra squadron for every other division.

We also know that many/most, but not all, Level-IIs are pure, so it would be unlikely to have all 5 of the ground based Level-II's be mixed.  More likely only 1-2 per Battalion/L3

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

NeonKnight

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #15 on: 29 October 2017, 19:46:43 »
Well, remember also, as per FM COMSTAR page 8, the Higher the letter (A, B, D, etc) the more front line/offensive it will be versus the Sigma's and Omega's which would be more defensive/planetary garrison.
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Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #16 on: 29 October 2017, 20:04:50 »
Hmmmm, I may just go with 2-4 ASF for now since we dont really use them in our games.

Ok, so probably going to go with 2 Level IIs with Mechs, 2 Level II with Armor/Transport, Level II with Infantry(Conventional and BA and a MASH unit).  Finally a Command Level II w/Mobile HQ 1-2 Mechs, 2 ASF, and maybe some Anti-Air Armor/Mech.

Now, does a Command Level II count towards the 6 Level IIs to create a Level III?  If it doesn't then I have room for another Level II...

Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #17 on: 30 October 2017, 02:38:53 »
Got a few more questions. 

When it comes to the Infantry, does transportation for them count as part of the Level II (it takes one of the Lvl I slots per vehicle), is it counted against a vehicle lvl II, or is it not counted and given for free as a means of transport for the Infantry/BA.

Say I have a lvl I made up of 6 Achiles BA, and want a transport, would that effectively equal two Level Is or is it just one(because the vehicle doesn't count towards the total)?

Recommendation for ASF?  I have a Samurai I want to use maybe, anything that works well to fill ~3 more Level I slots?
« Last Edit: 30 October 2017, 02:41:14 by Armond »

Nav_Alpha

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #18 on: 30 October 2017, 03:32:59 »
My understanding is that transport is factored in - ie: a squad of BA PLUS their APC is considered a Level I.
Happy to be corrected though


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Maelwys

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #19 on: 30 October 2017, 03:42:07 »
I'm of the personal opinion that the vehicle is part of the infantry. So a Level I of BA and their transport is just a level I.

Things get way too fiddly otherwise.

Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #20 on: 30 October 2017, 04:13:16 »
I like it!  Yay!!!

Recommended transport for BA?  Maxims?

NeonKnight

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #21 on: 30 October 2017, 04:52:28 »
sorry to bust your bubble, but I would say...No.

prime example is as you stated, why not take a Maxim, heck why not include a Palmoni or a Magi for each unit of BA.

A single group of 6 BA is a single Level 1 (note each individual BA is not a Level 1, but the whole 6 are)

This means 6 units of BA is a Level II (or 36 individual Suits), just like 4 dudes in BA is not an IS Lance, nor is 5 for clans a Star.

Just like 1 soldier is not a full Level I, but whatever number makes up a platoon a single unit.

So, taking further, Tau Zombie even though there are 7 of them, and Tau Wraith have 6.

Finally, from SARNA:

Quote
Structure and Command
The Word of Blake Militia maintains the same base-six military command structure as the Com Guards, with a Level I unit consisting of a single BattleMech, Combat Vehicle, Aerospace Fighter or infantry unit of four (later six) Battle Armor or 28 conventional infantry.
« Last Edit: 30 October 2017, 05:02:18 by NeonKnight »
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Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #22 on: 30 October 2017, 05:33:28 »
Ok, so then three Level Is of BA and three transports is a Level II.

I have no interest in using those Manei Domini BA in this force because they are not a Shadow Division Force.  Although I may put a Level I of some BA in a Command Level II of Manei Domini led by an Archangel, two Pretas, and some others.

Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #23 on: 30 October 2017, 05:43:45 »
The Maxim Heavy Transport can carry two Level Is of BA.  So I can go 2 Maxims and four BA Squads(2 in each Maxim) right?

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #24 on: 30 October 2017, 05:45:14 »
Ok, so then three Level Is of BA and three transports is a Level II.

I have no interest in using those Manei Domini BA in this force because they are not a Shadow Division Force.  Although I may put a Level I of some BA in a Command Level II of Manei Domini led by an Archangel, two Pretas, and some others.

that would make sense based on my readings and research into building up my own WoB forces (both WoB Militia and WoB Shadow Division)
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NeonKnight

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #25 on: 30 October 2017, 05:48:42 »
The Maxim Heavy Transport can carry two Level Is of BA.  So I can go 2 Maxims and four BA Squads(2 in each Maxim) right?

Which one? Sadly, most maxim can carry 3 tons of Infantry and a single level I of BA is 6 tons  :-\

So you would need 4 maxims and 2 BA for a Level II

Unless you go with Maxim Hvy Transport BA Upgrade, but that only gets you up to 4 tons of transport capacity.


OK, Found one, the MAXIM Clan Upgrade, has enough space for a single Level I of WoB BA.
« Last Edit: 30 October 2017, 05:52:06 by NeonKnight »
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Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #26 on: 30 October 2017, 06:06:24 »
Maybe this one?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2115/maxim-i-heavy-hover-transport-standard

From Sarna:
Infantry Variant
Sacrificing firepower for carrying capacity, this Maxim can transport up to 12 tons of infantry. In exchange, its weapons are limited to a Streak SRM-6, 2 ER Medium Lasers, and a TAG, all mounted in its turret. BV (2.0) = 770[5]

Isn't the BA one ton apiece in terms of transport requirements, so like you said, 6 tons for a Level I of then?.
« Last Edit: 30 October 2017, 06:17:10 by Armond »

NeonKnight

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #27 on: 30 October 2017, 06:29:46 »
Maybe this one?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2115/maxim-i-heavy-hover-transport-standard

From Sarna:
Infantry Variant
Sacrificing firepower for carrying capacity, this Maxim can transport up to 12 tons of infantry. In exchange, its weapons are limited to a Streak SRM-6, 2 ER Medium Lasers, and a TAG, all mounted in its turret. BV (2.0) = 770[5]

Isn't the BA one ton apiece in terms of transport requirements, so like you said, 6 tons for a Level I of then?.

Yeah that would work.

However, as per page 214 of TOTAL WARFARE, it is 1 ton per BA 'trooper'

So, most standard Maxim's have 3-4 tons of Infantry transport, but Clan version has 6 tons, making it usable for WoB forces.

But taking 2 Maxim I's and 4 BA would indeed be 'best-bang fer yer C-Bills!
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Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #28 on: 30 October 2017, 06:31:59 »
Right, but using the MUL, if you look at the Alpha Strike card it shows IT12.  So 12 tons of transport space. Is that wrong? 

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #29 on: 30 October 2017, 07:06:18 »
Eh, while technically correct in that a Level I of infantry and its transport would be 2 Level Is, I've never seen it be ground breaking by combining them both into a single Level I.

I'd point out that if you didn't, and you were making a force based on the Division numbers from the ComStar Sourcebook and other sources, then if you did want to give your infantry transports, you'd wind up wasting pretty much your entire armor selections on transports. The Infantry to Vehicle ratio in Divisions is pretty much 2:1 so even if your transports are carrying two Infantry units each, that's your entire complement of Conventional Vehicles. If you want to actually have regular, non-transport Conventional Vehicles, you have to carry more than 2 units per transport, and that gets tough.

Giving them a bit of flexibility is hardly going to destroy things.

NeonKnight

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #30 on: 30 October 2017, 07:07:29 »
Right, but using the MUL, if you look at the Alpha Strike card it shows IT12.  So 12 tons of transport space. Is that wrong?

Nope, that is Correct.

The Maxim has IT12, while the Achileus has a CAR value of 6. Make sure you use:



not



(All the BA have separate cards for Inner Sphere versions [default group of 4], Clan versions [group of 5] and Comstar/WoB [group of 6])
« Last Edit: 30 October 2017, 07:18:58 by NeonKnight »
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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #31 on: 30 October 2017, 07:18:20 »
Eh, while technically correct in that a Level I of infantry and its transport would be 2 Level Is, I've never seen it be ground breaking by combining them both into a single Level I.

I'd point out that if you didn't, and you were making a force based on the Division numbers from the ComStar Sourcebook and other sources, then if you did want to give your infantry transports, you'd wind up wasting pretty much your entire armor selections on transports. The Infantry to Vehicle ratio in Divisions is pretty much 2:1 so even if your transports are carrying two Infantry units each, that's your entire complement of Conventional Vehicles. If you want to actually have regular, non-transport Conventional Vehicles, you have to carry more than 2 units per transport, and that gets tough.

Giving them a bit of flexibility is hardly going to destroy things.

And while I would agree with you to a lesser extant, I would have a hard time agreeing that granting 'free transport' is not going to destroy things. As I stated above, where would one limit the gifting?

Remember at an ALPHA Level III only has 9 infantry Level I's (be they conventional infantry or BA), while the Omega has the most at 108 Infantry Level I's and 54 Armor/Vehicles.

Of course at the end of the day, what one chooses to play at their own tables will never be wrong, but at the moment, there is no rules I am aware of that 'gifts' free APC's for BA for WoB (or clan or IS).
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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #32 on: 30 October 2017, 07:35:13 »
Ok, so onto ASFs.
Was thinking 2x Rievers, 2x Hammerheads, and 2x Shivas.  Thoughts?

Also, would you count a Level II Command against your designated 6 allowed Level IIs in a Level III formation?  Or would the Command be a bit on the outside, like an addon?

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #33 on: 30 October 2017, 07:53:42 »
Ok, so onto ASFs.
Was thinking 2x Rievers, 2x Hammerheads, and 2x Shivas.  Thoughts?

Also, would you count a Level II Command against your designated 6 allowed Level IIs in a Level III formation?  Or would the Command be a bit on the outside, like an addon?

As to Aerospace...Rievers are in the WoB Accessability, especially the Riever F-700a and the Riever F-700b. The Hammerhead HMR-HF is exclusively WoB, and the Shiva SHV-OC is a FWL/WoB exclusive.

To see if a unit is available to a particular faction (outside of Salvage) on the MUL click on the Faction Availability links on the right side of the unit you are looking at.

Example:

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5055/shiva-shv-oc

On the right for JIHAD, clicking it expands the Jihad to show Free World league and WoB as Faction Available.

As to a Command Level, that one is a little tougher to answer...I have not seen anything that points one way or the other, so, on that front, your guess is as a good as mine.
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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #34 on: 30 October 2017, 07:57:53 »
Ya, i used the MUL for all my choices, which is how I got those three.  But just trying to get a good opinion on those particular ones.

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #35 on: 30 October 2017, 08:03:41 »
Ya, i used the MUL for all my choices, which is how I got those three.  But just trying to get a good opinion on those particular ones.

Ahhh...on that front...all I can say is...sure, the look ok. While I play a bunch I don't have an opinion of any unit over any other. I just like to paint/collect and play. for my WoB Militia...I currently don't have any Aero, and for the Shadow Division, just 3 Shade S-HA-O Invictus.  :-\
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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #36 on: 30 October 2017, 08:49:33 »
So, with BA, if I have an Owens or an Acatar(both are Omni), how many BA can grab onto it, I believe the Longinus can ride on Omnis.

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #37 on: 30 October 2017, 09:11:32 »
So, with BA, if I have an Owens or an Acatar(both are Omni), how many BA can grab onto it, I believe the Longinus can ride on Omnis.

same as any other Omni, 1 unit of BA:

Page 227 of TOTAL WARFARE:

Quote
Occupied Locations on OmniMechs and OmniVehicles
A six-trooper unit occupies all torso locations (front and back) of an OmniMech. A five-trooper unit occupies all torso locations except the front center torso, while a four-trooper unit occupies the front and back side torsos, leaving the front and back center torso free. A six-trooper unit places two troopers on each of the left, right and rear locations, while a five trooper unit places two troopers on the left and right sides and a single trooper on the rear. A four-trooper unit places two troopers on the left and right sides (see the Battle Armor Transport Position Table, p. 227).
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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #38 on: 30 October 2017, 18:33:26 »
Ah cool, wasn't sure if the limit was 5. 

WIP below...  Going to edit later.

Command Level II:
Partisan Air Defense Tank @35pts Sniper Size 4(C3M)
Avatar-OC (C3M) @41pts Sniper Size 3 (C3M)
Catapult-C3 @39pts Missile Boat Size 3
6x Achileus @9pts Ambusher Size 1(Laser)
Shiva-OA @38pts Attack Size 3
Shiva-OA @38pts Attack Size 3

Infantry Level II:
Maxim Heavy Hover Transport @24pts Size 2
6x Longinus BA @12pts Ambusher Size 1
6x Longinus BA @12pts Ambusher Size 1
Maxim Heavy Hover Transport @24pts Size 2
Jump Infantry (Lvl I) @11pts Ambusher Size 1
Jump Infantry (Lvl I) @11pts Ambusher Size 1

Vehicle Level II:
Cavalry Attack Helicopter @16pts Striker Size 1
Cavalry Attack Helicopter @16pts Striker Size 1


Catapult-C3
Owens-1 @29pts Missile Boat Size 1(Omni/C3S)

NeonKnight

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #39 on: 30 October 2017, 18:41:25 »
Ah cool, wasn't sure if the limit was 5. 

WIP below...  Going to edit later.

Command Level II:
Partisan Air Defense Tank @35pts Sniper Size 4(C3M)
Avatar-OC (C3M) @41pts Sniper Size 3 (C3M)
Catapult-C3 @39pts Missile Boat Size 3
6x Achileus @9pts Ambusher Size 1(Laser)
Shiva-OA @38pts Attack Size 3
Shiva-OA @38pts Attack Size 3

Infantry Level II:
Maxim Heavy Hover Transport @24pts Size 2
6x Longinus BA @12pts Ambusher Size 1
6x Longinus BA @12pts Ambusher Size 1

Maxim Heavy Hover Transport @24pts Size 2
Jump Infantry (Lvl I) @11pts Ambusher Size 1
Jump Infantry (Lvl I) @11pts Ambusher Size 1

Vehicle Level II:
Cavalry Attack Helicopter @16pts Striker Size 1
Cavalry Attack Helicopter @16pts Striker Size 1


Catapult-C3
Owens-1 @29pts Missile Boat Size 1(Omni/C3S)

Just so you know, you don't need to put 6x for the BA, just list it as a Level I BA, otherwise someone may mistake you and think you actually have 6 Level I's ;)

Also, I don't think they combine the Aero with the units for the Level II's, keeping them 'mech/Armor/Infantry.

I'll check my books.

**UPDATE**

It does appear based on the info I can find, that one could have a combined-arms Level II with 'Mech-Aero-Vehicle-Infantry but seeing as most people don't play Aero on the table (the rules are complex and speeds often mean needing a LARGE playspace most simply forego Aero), as a result I keep aero out of my Level IIs and have them make up their own seperate Level IIs.
« Last Edit: 30 October 2017, 18:47:58 by NeonKnight »
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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #40 on: 30 October 2017, 21:21:48 »
Sound advice. Leaves space to put my Command Level II in as a combined-arms formation. 

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #41 on: 31 October 2017, 00:15:32 »
I like the Radar Map sheet myself when I use Aero for ground engagements...

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #42 on: 31 October 2017, 01:32:26 »
Here we go!!!

Ok, a more fleshed out Level III out of Omicron Division(Lvl IV) from the Clan Invasion Era.

Level II, Command
Grand Crusader-01 @46pts Missile Boat Size 4
Emperor-6A @45pts Juggernaut Size 4
Exterminator-4D@35pts Skirmisher/Size 3
Raijin-101-A@28pts Striker/Size 2
Nexus-1-A@16pts Striker/Size 1
Falcon Hawk-NK1B@29pts Brawler/Size 1
 
Level II, Heavy Battlemech
Bandersnatch-01A@37pts Brawler/Size 3
Thunderbolt-7M@39pts Brawler/Size 3
Warhammer-7M@35pts Brawler/Size 3
Champion-3P @37pts Skirmisher Size 3
HuronWarrior-R4L@33pts Skirmisher/Size 2
Crab-30 @33pts Sniper/Size 2
 
Level II, Light Striker
Raijin-101-A@28pts Striker/Size 2
Grim Reaper-29@34pts Skirmisher/Size 2
Nexus-1-A@16pts Striker/Size 1
Firefly-4C@22pts Striker/Size 1
Stinger-3GB@16pts Striker/Size 1
Thorn-N1 @13pts Sniper Size 1

Level II, Light Cavalry
Cavalry Helicopter@16pts Striker/Size 1
Cavalry Helicopter@16pts Striker/Size 1
Galleon-102@23pts Striker/Size 1
Galleon-102@23pts Striker/Size 1
Drillson Heavy Hover@21pts Striker/Size 2
Drillson Heavy Hover@21pts Striker/Size 2
 
Level II, Infantry Support Alpha
Maxim Transport@24pts Striker/Size 2
Maxim Transport@24pts Striker/Size 2
Longinus BA@12pts Ambusher/Size 1
Longinus BA@12pts Ambusher/Size 1
Longinus BA@12pts Ambusher/Size 1
Longinus BA@12pts Ambusher/Size 1
 
Level II, Infantry Support Bravo
H. Hover APC (Standard)@8pts Scout/Size 1
H. Hover APC (Standard)@8pts Scout/Size 1
H. Hover APC (Standard)@8pts Scout/Size 1
Achileus BA (LTAG)@8pts Ambusher/Size 1
Jump Inf. (SRM) @11pts Ambusher/Size 1
Jump Inf. (SRM) @11pts Ambusher/Size 1

Level II, Support
Alacorn Mk VI @39pts Sniper/Size 4
Avatar-OC@41pts Sniper Size/3
Catapult-C3@39pts Missile Boat/Size 3
Owens-1@29pts Missile Boat/Size 1
Achileus BA (LTAG)@8pts Ambusher/Size1
Achileus BA (Laser)@9pts Ambusher/Size1
So, thoughts and recommendations?

Edited with the idea of having the Command Level II be separate.  My thinking is that there is a dedicated Level II made up entirely of Commands that falls under a Level IV/Division just to be assigned to each Level II.  Either way, I feel like it is a decent build, kind of obviously SL/WoB(especially WoB with the BA).
« Last Edit: 01 November 2017, 17:21:35 by Armond »

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #43 on: 02 November 2017, 22:58:39 »
Now, does a Command Level II count towards the 6 Level IIs to create a Level III?  If it doesn't then I have room for another Level II...
It does,  36 total units.   Command is included in there.


Eh, while technically correct in that a Level I of infantry and its transport would be 2 Level Is, I've never seen it be ground breaking by combining them both into a single Level I

The best compromise I've ever seen suggested is to allow APC's  (And ONLY APCs) count as part of the Infantry section for your allotted amounts.
That way the few vehicles in each division stay as true combat vehicles.

So a Level-2 of all infantry could be 3 "L1's" + 3 "APCs" and count as 6 "Infantry" v/s being 3 Infantry & 3 Vehicles.

The question then comes down to what is an APC v/s IFV.

I see 2 options.

1.  It must be a true generic APC v/s some named unit, so Heavy Hover APC = good,  Maxim = BAD

2.  The 2nd is a bit more fiddly, like X% of vehicle in "Cargo/Infantry" where X is 10-25%.
So the basic Heavy APC line at 6/20 tons counts, even the "Infantry" Maxim at 12/50 would count.
  But not the 3/50 versions with more firepower than troops.
Another option might be to simply say an "APC" must not be able to trigger a PSR, so 19 or less total damage.
Finally it could be a combo of both.  10% Cargo & less than 10 damage = "APC".... anything else is an IFV & counts in the "Vehicle" column.

I like this particular compromise as it allows your infantry to be more mobile w/o beefing up the size of the division to over 216 units.
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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #44 on: 03 November 2017, 01:25:47 »
Sorry I'm late - work now blocks the site  :( >:(

I got an unofficial word of advice from Herb Beas when he was the Line Dev - in short, if the APC is 'inoffensive', then don't count it as part of the LII. If the APC is battle-worthy in itself, then it counts.

So for example, 6 Achileus LIs in 6 Hover APCs is a LII. Four Shedu in two Maxim(I)s are a Level II. Two Bollas with four Se'irim LIs (each has one in, one out) is a LII.

Rough rule of thumb: if it has (in AS terms) more than 1 attack at short range, or 0* at medium or long, it's "offensive".

Side note - we're unlikely to ever see Combat Manual: Word of Blake, so I've come up with my own way of building AS forces. Short form: if a BA or Infantry LI has a dedicated assigned carrier, you can sub a carrier's stats to 'sub' for the LI's limit. So (for example) the aforementioned LI of Achileus with hover APCs can be a Light Recon LII. Purifiers in Magi UCSV can count as having 10" move. Und so weiter.

Hope that makes sense,

W.
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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #45 on: 03 November 2017, 01:31:22 »
Sorry I'm late - work now blocks the site  :( >:(

I got an unofficial word of advice from Herb Beas when he was the Line Dev - in short, if the APC is 'inoffensive', then don't count it as part of the LII. If the APC is battle-worthy in itself, then it counts.

So for example, 6 Achileus LIs in 6 Hover APCs is a LII. Four Shedu in two Maxim(I)s are a Level II. Two Bollas with four Se'irim LIs (each has one in, one out) is a LII.

Rough rule of thumb: if it has (in AS terms) more than 1 attack at short range, or 0* at medium or long, it's "offensive".

Side note - we're unlikely to ever see Combat Manual: Word of Blake, so I've come up with my own way of building AS forces. Short form: if a BA or Infantry LI has a dedicated assigned carrier, you can sub a carrier's stats to 'sub' for the LI's limit. So (for example) the aforementioned LI of Achileus with hover APCs can be a Light Recon LII. Purifiers in Magi UCSV can count as having 10" move. Und so weiter.

Hope that makes sense,

W.

So, in other words

THIS is OK:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1435/heavy-hover-apc-standard

This is not OK:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1432/heavy-hover-apc-mg

I believe that is what you mean?
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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #46 on: 03 November 2017, 01:38:49 »
No, the MG version has only one damage at SR - 1/0/0. More than 1 at SR, more than 0* at MR or LR, that's my version.

The LRM version is also OK - 1/0*/0*

The SRM version isn't OK by that interpretation - 1/1/0. And the Scout version is not OK, because it doesn't have any IT ;)

Like I said, it's a rule of thumb. If you chose to put each half of a LI of infantry (remember, two 18-man units on the map) into a hover APC each, I'd call that one "unit" for unit building. Herb's Rule #1 applies - "whatever works on your table" O0
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* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
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* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #47 on: 03 November 2017, 01:56:50 »
No, the MG version has only one damage at SR - 1/0/0. More than 1 at SR, more than 0* at MR or LR, that's my version.

The LRM version is also OK - 1/0*/0*

The SRM version isn't OK by that interpretation - 1/1/0. And the Scout version is not OK, because it doesn't have any IT ;)

Like I said, it's a rule of thumb. If you chose to put each half of a LI of infantry (remember, two 18-man units on the map) into a hover APC each, I'd call that one "unit" for unit building. Herb's Rule #1 applies - "whatever works on your table" O0

Yep makes sense then. About what I thought....and I too am saddened we will never see a WoB Combat Manual.

If any faction needs one it's them (and COMSTAR) because of their "We like to Mix things Up!" Kinda hard to get a Striker Lance/Level II when the Infantry don't have a Move 10" or 8"J :(
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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #48 on: 03 November 2017, 01:59:32 »
Exactly the problem I faced with my [urlhttp://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56122.msg1290253#msg1290253]LoM Level III[/url]. Can't help it, gotta build the minis ...
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #49 on: 03 November 2017, 03:56:12 »
With the recommended information on APCs for Infantry Level IIs!  You guys rock with all this info!!!

Ok, a more fleshed out Level III out of Omicron Division(Lvl IV) from the Clan Invasion Era.

Level II, Command
Grand Crusader-01 @46pts Missile Boat Size 4
Emperor-6A @45pts Juggernaut Size 4
Avatar-OC@41pts Sniper Size/3
Exterminator-4D@35pts Skirmisher/Size 3
Raijin-101-A@28pts Striker/Size 2
Nexus-1-A@16pts Striker/Size 1
*Some typical WoB variants, and the Avatar in there for its Omni.  Why?  So he can carry some BA found in the Infantry Level IIs if need be.
 
Level II, Heavy Battle 'Mech
Bandersnatch-01A@37pts Brawler/Size 3
Warhammer-7M@35pts Brawler/Size 3
Champion-3P @37pts Skirmisher Size 3
Catapult-C3@39pts Missile Boat/Size 3
HuronWarrior-R4L@33pts Skirmisher/Size 2
Crab-30 @33pts Sniper/Size 2
*This Heavy Level II composed of mechs is a nice little mixture.  I figure they fit the role and invoke some sense of WoB/COMSTAR nostalgia.

Level II, Light Striker
Firestarter-9-0 @29pts Striker/Size 2
Grim Reaper-29@34pts Skirmisher/Size 2
Firefly-4C@22pts Striker/Size 1
Nexus-1-A@16pts Striker/Size 1
Falcon Hawk-9K1B@29pts Brawler/Size 1
Owens-1@29pts Missile Boat/Size 1
*More WoB fun here and two Omnimechs for more BA movement/transport if situation calls/warrants it.  All of these are 10" or more movement as required and some have some nice jump capabilities. 

Level II, Light Cavalry
Cavalry Helicopter@16pts Striker/Size 1
Cavalry Helicopter@16pts Striker/Size 1
Galleon-102@23pts Striker/Size 1
Galleon-102@23pts Striker/Size 1
Drillson Heavy Hover@21pts Striker/Size 2
Drillson Heavy Hover@21pts Striker/Size 2
*Semi-fast versions of 3 types; tracked, hover, and VTOLs.  Figure they can zip around and lend some help across the boards.
 
Level II, Infantry Support Alpha
Maxim Transport@24pts Striker/Size 2
Maxim Transport@24pts Striker/Size 2
Longinus BA@12pts Ambusher/Size 1
Longinus BA@12pts Ambusher/Size 1
Longinus BA@12pts Ambusher/Size 1
Longinus BA@12pts Ambusher/Size 1
*Dropping BA everywhere, each Maxim can carry 2x Level I BA.  Also because the Maxims have a pretty decent attack value they can support after and during drops.
 
Level II, Infantry Support Bravo
H. Hover APC (Standard)@8pts Scout/Size 1
H. Hover APC (Standard)@8pts Scout/Size 1
H. Hover APC (Standard)@8pts Scout/Size 1
Jump Inf. (SRM) @11pts Ambusher/Size 1
Jump Inf. (SRM) @11pts Ambusher/Size 1
Jump Inf. (SRM) @11pts Ambusher/Size 1
Achileus BA (LTAG)@8pts Ambusher/Size 1
Achileus BA (LTAG)@8pts Ambusher/Size1
Achileus BA (Laser)@9pts Ambusher/Size1
*Every Jump Infantry Level I has a Hover Transport.  The BA in this unit are there to jump on Omnimechs found in the Command Level II.  Two LTAG versions give the Catapult-C3 a nice aid for its Arrow IV.

So, thoughts and recommendations?

Edited with the idea of having the Support Level II removed.  Hopefully this makes more sense based on the advice from all you wonderful people!

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #50 on: 03 November 2017, 13:29:32 »
There's no armour!

I love mixing armour and 'Mechs into my Level IIs. But then, I'm wierd ;)
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #51 on: 03 November 2017, 13:55:43 »
Also keep in mind that Strategic Ops (IIRC) added in the option of having "Overstrength" Level IIIs. So you could add another Level II to it, and that would be fine. Its really up to you on alot of things in BT.

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #52 on: 04 November 2017, 08:33:24 »
Your level IV is really missing air-cover. That's why I prefer to have a level II of aero in every Level III.

Even if the listing in the FM is crappy (39 aero ?!?), to have 6 lvl IIs or a pure lvl III of death in the air is always good  #P

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #53 on: 04 November 2017, 18:07:04 »
Also keep in mind that Strategic Ops (IIRC) added in the option of having "Overstrength" Level IIIs. So you could add another Level II to it, and that would be fine. Its really up to you on alot of things in BT.

On what page did you find that?

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #54 on: 04 November 2017, 19:05:02 »
Your level IV is really missing air-cover. That's why I prefer to have a level II of aero in every Level III.

Even if the listing in the FM is crappy (39 aero ?!?), to have 6 lvl IIs or a pure lvl III of death in the air is always good  #P

This is not a Level IV, it is a Level III FROM Omicron Division(a Level IV).  But no one in my groups plays Aero right now, so I am forgoing it, some other Level III will double up on their Aero-force as it fits their mission better.

I am considering changing my Cav Level II to be something a little more armor based.  Not sure yet.

Maelwys

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #55 on: 04 November 2017, 19:15:30 »
On what page did you find that?

Page 301 of Strat Ops in the Advanced Force Distribution Table.

Hellraiser

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #56 on: 04 November 2017, 23:16:21 »
Like I said, it's a rule of thumb. If you chose to put each half of a LI of infantry (remember, two 18-man units on the map) into a hover APC each, I'd call that one "unit" for unit building. Herb's Rule #1 applies - "whatever works on your table" O0

While I like the ideas above, having a pair of Heavy Hover APC (LRM) assigned to move my 36 foot infantry and still call that a single Level-1 seems a tad bit excessive.


3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

ocherstone

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #57 on: 04 November 2017, 23:42:59 »
Level IIs are varied.  My rules for ComStar forces:  Aerospace are always paired, and non-combat vehicles don't count against the unit count.  This gets to a mounted vs mechanized difference.  I came up with this after going through whatever lists I could.  The sourcebooks do not agree with eachother (Fall of Terra is completely FUBAR), so I made some executive decisions.  It's worked well for me.

edit: I used an old version.  I'm always tweaking.  Note, this is for Level IIs.  Level IIIs should be pretty close to the ratios in FM:CS.

Alpha through Zeta Level IIs contain decreasing numbers of ‘Mechs while increasing number of vehicles.  These Level IIs are routinely used in offensive missions, usually with the vehicle and ‘Mech weights, armaments and/or speeds complementing each other.
Alpha- 6M
Beta-5M1V
Gamma- 4M2V
Delta- 3M3V
Epsilon- 2M4V
Zeta 1M5V

Eta is the standard designation for Infantry-light combined arms Level IIs.  The infantry is APC or IFV mounted to keep up with the combat machines.  Eta Level IIs have increased in number with the proliferation of Battle Armor, which increases the lethality of the unit.
Eta - 4M1V1I 3M2V1I

Low numbers of BattleMechs in Theta deceive many, but ComStar’s backbone is combined arms, and Theta is the most publicly visible Level II designation.   With enough vehicles to mount all infantry, Thetas are the workhorse of any ComStar division, and are usually enough to respond to most situations.
Theta – 2M3V1I 1M4V1I

Iota Level IIs are the preferred garrison Level IIs for HPGs on planets that have a high chance of ‘Mech combat.  The weights of Iota-IIs machines tend to be heavy and/or slower speed to better support the anti-‘Mech trained infantry which are often motorized or mechanized for fierce urban combat. 
Iota - 5M1I 4M2I 3M1V2I

Kappa-IIs are the lowest Demi-Company designation that include the IFV and APC mounted infantry.  Kappa-IIs are usually light weight raiding teams, and contain fast ‘Mechs and VTOL or hovercraft.  Their infantry Level Is historically have not seen heavy combat, though the increased availability in Battle Armor has increased the offensive capability of Kappa-IIs.
Kappa- 2M2V2I 1M3V2I

Lambda Level IIs are all-vehicle Level IIs.  Their missions vary as much as BattleMech Alpha-IIs.  They support Alpha-IIs as easily and have as varied a combat profile as their ‘Mech brothers.
Lambda- 6V

Mu-IIs lack the IFV vehicle support or APCs to move their infantry components quickly, and so rely on personal vehicle support. Hover mechanized or jump infantry dominate, and wheeled field-artillery pieces are common.  The Battle of Tuakkyyid saw many Mu-IIs be dismissed by the Clans, and concluded with Mus claiming many of the battle’s highest kill/loss ratios in the early days of the campaign.  When overrun in the final days, though, Mu-IIs took higher than average casualties, and many Mus were disbanded.
Mu - 2M4I 1M1V4I 2V4I

The Nu-II is the preferred deployment to hotspots that do not require or cannot sustain ‘Mech deployment.  Often, the vehicles are VTOL or hovertank equipped, but heavy urban vehicle Nus are common.  On many backwater B-level HPG planets they are the only offensively capable Level IIs.  Most non-MechWarrior Precentors are Nu designated. Nu-II urban and defensive abilities are noteworthy, while they lack some of the raw offensive power of the higher Level IIs, due to the lack of ‘Mechs. 
Nu- 5V1I 4V2I 3V3I

Xi is the first of Aerospace and vehicle or ‘Mech integrated Level IIs.  The Aerospace fighters support offensive operations of the 4 ground-combat elements and are usually light weight, but heavy or assault Xi-IIs are not unknown.
Xi - 4M2A 3M1V2A 2M2V2A 1M3V2A 4V2A

Omicron-IIs are a catchall for Level IIs than claim an aerospace lance and at least 1 infantry Level I.  Omicron-IIs are usually found alongside Eta, Nu, and Xi Level IIs.  Light ‘Mechs and vehicles predominate, and Omicron-II infantry are usually used as spotters for artillery equipped Level IIs, but Omicron-II machines can direct close air support of their heavy Aerospace fighters.
Omicron-   3M2A1I 3V2A1I 2M2A2I 2M1V2A1I 1M2V2A1I 2V2A2I 1M1V2A2I 1M2A3I 1V2A3I   

The all-aerospace Pi-IIs are rarer in planet-bound Level IIIs, but are commonly found defending interstellar traffic and the Order’s spaceships.  The lack of “boots-on-the-ground“ integration hampers their use in ground combat, but the arrival of Pi-IIs has ended many planetary assaults before they began as they swat enemy DropShips from the sky.
Pi 6A

All infantry Rho-IIs are varied in their composition, but are normally support for heavier combat machine possessing Level IIs.  Rho IIs are the least offensively capable pure-Level IIs, and do not fire their weapons in anger for most of their existence.  Their presence on many worlds goes unnoticed, and many support personnel are grouped into Rho-IIs for administrative use.
Rho- 6I

Sigma-IIs differ from Iotas and Kappas with the higher number of infantry, and perform similar defensive missions, though they require near-static positions as the lack of quick infantry transports limits their movement and offensive capability.  Many Sigma-IIs have high numbers of jump infantry to offset their slow speed.
Sigma - 3M3I 2M1V3I 1M2V3I

Tau IIs lack IFV support for their mechanized or foot infantry and thus are garrison Levels IIs for low priority or mostly barren worlds that still see occasional bandit raids and require an attacker to invade a limited area.   Most urban-combat Level IIs are Tau designated, as well as field-artillery IIs.
Tau – 1M5I 1V5I

Aerospace-heavy Upsilon-IIs perform defensive missions on planets that require a large Aerospace presence.   They vary in size and speed, but have occasionally been used as support for offensive campaigns and defenders for many planets.
Upsilon 2M4A 1M1V4A 2V4A

Phi-IIs are similar to Upsilon-IIs, but contain an infantry component.  The BattleMech and infantry pairing have limited offensive capability, though Phi-IIs are often found as a newly promoted MechWarrior Precentor’s command/honor guard Level II.  The high numbers of Aerospace fighters are usually heavy machines.
Phi 1M4A1I

Chi and Psi Level IIs are the preferred Space/Marine Level IIs.  Chi and Psi Level IIs train in capturing enemy DropShips, JumpShips and Space Stations, and are elite defenders of the Order’s space-bound ships.  Psi-IIs are found as command units on many HPG A worlds, and those with large black-navy forces.
Chi 4A2I
Psi 2A4I

Omega-IIs are normally used in clandestine, high-risk or ROM sanctioned missions behind enemy lines.  Omega-IIs usually contain the fastest vehicles available to the ComGuards (with advanced electronics) and high-flying light fighters with spying capabilities.  The ability to quickly insert and extract the forward infantry elements necessitates VTOL or quick hovercraft.
Omega 1V4A1I
« Last Edit: 05 November 2017, 12:37:44 by ocherstone »

Armond

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #58 on: 05 November 2017, 05:07:53 »
That's a very nice bit of home brew there!  By your reckoning I would be sitting at a Theta Level III; 3M1V2I. But the ETA's explanation fits better, especially with the BA tie I .

truetanker

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #59 on: 11 November 2017, 23:04:38 »
I made this pretty much a few years ago, and have since released it for public use. Like I said there, PM me if you need any more info.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57366.0

Enjoy!
TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
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klarg1

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #60 on: 13 November 2017, 13:44:07 »
Sorry I'm late - work now blocks the site  :( >:(

I got an unofficial word of advice from Herb Beas when he was the Line Dev - in short, if the APC is 'inoffensive', then don't count it as part of the LII. If the APC is battle-worthy in itself, then it counts.

So for example, 6 Achileus LIs in 6 Hover APCs is a LII. Four Shedu in two Maxim(I)s are a Level II. Two Bollas with four Se'irim LIs (each has one in, one out) is a LII.

Rough rule of thumb: if it has (in AS terms) more than 1 attack at short range, or 0* at medium or long, it's "offensive".

Side note - we're unlikely to ever see Combat Manual: Word of Blake, so I've come up with my own way of building AS forces. Short form: if a BA or Infantry LI has a dedicated assigned carrier, you can sub a carrier's stats to 'sub' for the LI's limit. So (for example) the aforementioned LI of Achileus with hover APCs can be a Light Recon LII. Purifiers in Magi UCSV can count as having 10" move. Und so weiter.

Hope that makes sense,

W.

That is pretty much the rule of thumb I have followed when building CS/WoB forces. Without it, small APCs use up your limited vehicle allotment way too quickly, with very questionable return on investment.

Hellraiser

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #61 on: 18 November 2017, 14:51:06 »
No, the MG version has only one damage at SR - 1/0/0. More than 1 at SR, more than 0* at MR or LR, that's my version.

The LRM version is also OK - 1/0*/0*

The SRM version isn't OK by that interpretation - 1/1/0. And the Scout version is not OK, because it doesn't have any IT ;)

Like I said, it's a rule of thumb. If you chose to put each half of a LI of infantry (remember, two 18-man units on the map) into a hover APC each, I'd call that one "unit" for unit building. Herb's Rule #1 applies - "whatever works on your table" O0

The more I think about this the more I like it.

With the limit of 1 APC per L1 unit.   So the 36 man units have to use the basic Hover APC & not the weaponized versions.

Which nicely means the 7 ton bay of the Karnov-3058 will hold a 36 man Blakist Jump Platoon perfectly.

Motorized-36 man platoons will need an 8 ton bay which the Karnov-BA supplies.

Given they created the Karnov, I like where this is going.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Maelwys

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #62 on: 19 November 2017, 00:30:14 »
That's another thing to take into account if you're playing the WoB. If you make an actual WoB platoon, you're looking at 4 tons for a Foot Infantry platoon to transport it, rather than just 3. It isn't a major issue, but it will reduce the options you have.

truetanker

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #63 on: 23 November 2017, 15:00:15 »
WOB / Comstar would be using more like, Wheeled - Hover -Tracked APC, standard with most of them 4x SRM variants and only 2x LRMs + the 36-trooper Foot.

This means that the SRM can't fire their SRM's anywhere but front.

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Precentor Scorpio

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #64 on: 28 November 2017, 14:07:56 »
I think the key is a Level III with combined arms.  So a Level II maybe pure, but there should be some Level II's that are combined arms. 
(If you make your Level III an independent command you can easily justify no air support.)

For example, my WOB division doesn't have any aerospace fighters attached to it.  The cheap fiction for this unit is a ROM paramilitary force 4 Level III's with an attached Level III of MD (pure 36 mechs all Celestials) and an Artillery Level III.  (Four Marksman artillery pieces and two Demon tanks in four separate Level II's with two additional Level II's as three Maxims and three infantry platoons for security/support.)

Also, you might consider the use of Choirs to justify your infantry and Maxim transport.  (A Choir is the WOB version of a Clan nova.)

Precentor Scorpio

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #65 on: 28 November 2017, 14:17:48 »
The scenario for my division was the deployment of this Level IV to Donegal in an attempt to trap and capture/kill Victor.  The MD Level III and the artillery Level III were attached only for this mission/convention.

truetanker

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #66 on: 28 November 2017, 21:18:00 »
and an Artillery Level III.  (Four Marksman artillery pieces and two Demon tanks in four separate Level II's with two additional Level II's as three Maxims and three infantry platoons for security/support.)

Strange unit idea of yours... I find this curiously underwhelming.

I have a similar set up, but uses C3i.

2 Level II's worth : 3x Thor C3i, 2x SRM Carrier (Blakist), 1x LRM Carrier (Blakist)
2 Level II's worth : 5x Puma-007, 1x Puma-008
2 Level II's worth : 2x Galleon-103, 2x Galleon-104, 1x Magi UCSV, 1x Purifier Adaptive BA (PPC)

But I guess we think alike.

TT
« Last Edit: 28 November 2017, 21:19:59 by truetanker »
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Precentor Scorpio

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #67 on: 29 November 2017, 07:45:43 »
Well, the initial plan was to have nine games of battletech going on at once with each table consisting of a binary//(supernova) Clan WIE, Lyran company, ComStar and WOB Blake would use 2 to 4 Level II's.  Both sides could call in artillery support but the Word of Blake commander would be overseeing all nine battles and allocating artillery as he/she saw fit. 
Naturally, the Coalition would have done a headhunter strike so there would have been a tenth battle going on the table where the artillery Level III would have been located so the WOB commander would have been allocating artillery while trying to protect his artillery support at the same time. 

truetanker

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Re: Word of Blake Level IIs...
« Reply #68 on: 29 November 2017, 08:17:51 »
Ah.... I see now.

See in mine, I have the Thor locate a position and set up shop with the LRM providing over watch, and then setting loose the SRMs to look for targets. They're the ones with TAG and ECM moving 4/6 all the way. The LRM moves same, if needed.

The main battle units are the Pumas with the Galleon / Magi UCSV as the scouts for the unit. I could always drop one of these for another Thor unit if need be.

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016