Author Topic: Opinions on the Sun Spider.  (Read 11355 times)

Requiemking

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Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« on: 04 January 2018, 00:46:53 »
So, as of this past mechcon, PGI unveiled the Sun Spider. Anther brand new mech for the lore, and I'm curious about people's reactions to it here, as the reactions on the MWO forums are largely the same as when the Roughneck was released last year(a fairly volatile mix of anger and shock with some degree of intrigue). I personally see nothing wrong with it, as it's design is pretty fair in terms of combat power(basically, it seems to be a compromise between the Summoner's agility and the Novacat's podspace. Although, I would definitely not want that Prime config anywhere near me if I were on the enemy team), not to mention the fact that MWO is hardly the first videogame to introduce new mecha to the franchise(I'm looking straight at you MW4) and I doubt it will be the last. But, I would like to know what the TT people over here think.
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Recklessfireball1

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #1 on: 04 January 2018, 09:12:46 »
Since I don't play MWO, I can only critique it visually.  It reminds me of another dumb-looking MWO unit that looks like it's legs are mounted backwards (Cataphract, maybe?).  MWO has mostly awesome looking 'Mechs, but this is one of the goofy looking ones (not that the TT version doesn't have it's own goofy looking rides  ;D).

Swivel the legs around at the hips and then it would probably look pretty cool.   :)

Foxx Ital

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #2 on: 04 January 2018, 09:42:52 »
I haven't heard.much other than some reeeing.  Would anyone care to fill me in because im too lazy to look it up?
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Requiemking

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #3 on: 04 January 2018, 12:29:49 »
I haven't heard.much other than some reeeing.  Would anyone care to fill me in because im too lazy to look it up?
The Sun Spider(PGI's brand new mech) is, according to it's lore page, is a 70 ton Clan Goliath Scorpion Omnimech. In terms of design, its alright. A 350 XL engine makes it run as fast as the Summoner(though it lacks the Jump Jets), with Endosteel and nine and a half tons of Ferro armor it has fourteen double heatsinks and 31 tons of podspace for gear. The Prime config is terrifying at close range, sporting a UAC10 with 2 tons of ammo, an ERLL, and four Streak SRM6s with 3 tons of ammo. The other configs are decent in their own right, with A config being mostly long range(Quad UAC2s and twin ERLLs), the B config being mixed range(a Gauss rifle, an ERLL, twin ERMLL and SSRM6s, AMS, and a Light active probe), the C config being LRMs(2 LRM20s and 2 LRM 15s), the D being all the Dakka(twin UAC20s and a single HMG) and special config "Manul"(the Hero variant. Twin ERPPCs and twin ERLLs, a single ERSL, AMS, and nine extra double heat sinks). The basic gist of it's lore(which was written by Randal Bills) is that it was an early Omnimech that was buried after the Scorpions got their hands on some better designs, and then was dug up after Operation revival and was presented after it's flaws were corrected.
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marauder648

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #4 on: 04 January 2018, 15:04:40 »
Sounds like an interesting design, and a useful one too.  What's it look like?
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jimdigris

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #5 on: 04 January 2018, 15:12:22 »
Sounds like an interesting design, and a useful one too.  What's it look like?
In everything except the arms, it looks like the Capellan Gun omnimech.
« Last Edit: 04 January 2018, 15:15:10 by jimdigris »

Adgar76

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #6 on: 04 January 2018, 15:16:04 »


Fun fact, it has the same armor amount of a Summoner. However, we don't know yet how it is distributed.
It seems to be the kind of design that could turn up in a TRO: Golden Century.

The fluff (almost as good as a TRO entry) can be found here:
http://mwomercs.com/news/2017/12/1970-sun-spider-lore

jimdigris

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #7 on: 04 January 2018, 15:24:05 »
It was written by Randall Bills.  We may yet see a similar mech for Catalyst.

Requiemking

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #8 on: 04 January 2018, 16:55:00 »
It was written by Randall Bills.  We may yet see a similar mech for Catalyst.
I wouldn't be surprised if it showed up in an update Clan Invasion-era TRO alongside the Roughneck(as that mech's lore places it's creation at roughly the same time, give or take a couple decades),
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Frabby

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #9 on: 04 January 2018, 17:51:29 »
Personally, I've grown tired of the design spam and liked BattleTech more when it had fewer 'Mech designs with more character.
Beyond that general grognard gripe, I don't have any specific problems with the Sun Spider, except perhaps that it looks as if it couldn't mass more than 40 tons. It's not ugly or weird, it just doesn't visually convey a 70-ton feeling; YMMV.

MWO canon is obscure. According to a ruling Randall Bills himself made, with Line Developer hat on, all Hero 'Mech fluff for MWO is canon for CGL's "core" BattleTech IP.
There is a Hero 'Mech Sun Spider, ergo the 'Mech is canon - that is, its name, backstory, and individual Hero 'Mech are canon. Its stats... only insofar as established by the fluff. By contrast, the MWO stats aren't canon.

The backstory marks this as a very obscure design - like many of my beloved BattleTechnology designs. The story isn't too bad; but it kinda sorta makes sure this design will always be a fringe design, too rare to make an impact. So ultimately, it's an okay design with little if any relevance. Nice, but unneccessary.

My 2 cents.
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Von Jankmon

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #10 on: 04 January 2018, 18:41:57 »
Its gangliness is perhaps one of its flaws that needed correcting.  The design is very solid on paper, and I do like the configurations, particularly Prime and A.

As for the looks, the name earns it forgiveness, the animal it is based on is large and spindly, and very nasty.  Once clan techs had learned how to build it so it took hits properly.

Also the design might help itsd speed, the stride length might make up for a slower gait, a design compromise that might not have pulled off compared to the Summoner.

All in all I like it.
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Warship

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #11 on: 04 January 2018, 20:46:42 »
I think it makes a good alternative.  Although, the design of the legs/feet in the illustration does not appear viable. 

Requiemking

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #12 on: 04 January 2018, 23:15:13 »
I think it makes a good alternative.  Although, the design of the legs/feet in the illustration does not appear viable.
Well, when you consider most of the thing's weight seems to be over the back of the foot, it makes sense to extend the rear toes like that. Although, that front toe is a little too short for my comfort.
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JadedFalcon

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #13 on: 04 January 2018, 23:44:45 »
Does anyone else think it looks like the Targe? Might be a good use for the mini.

If it makes it to CGL/IWM, maybe we'll get a design that feels more like a 70-ton mech. Can't complain about its inclusion into canon. More Clan homeworld stuff from CGL would be nice.

Maelwys

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #14 on: 05 January 2018, 01:12:02 »
Its alright. The armor is a little low, but its matches the Summoner, so its not the end of the world. The 14 DHS are perhaps a bit much, but they're all in the engine so that's not incredibly bad either, though obviously if you wanted to go for something like twin Gauss Rifles, you're going to be incredibly oversinked.

It might be interested to see how the crits work out.

The fluff is eh. No big deal really. "Scientists conspired to get OmniTech, then couldn't make it work, so buried it while they waited for the Warriors to get it officially."

I do question the need really. Battletech has so many designs out there that cramming in more isn't really needed, but I guess they wanted to make their mark or something.

Deadborder

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #15 on: 05 January 2018, 02:06:18 »
I do question the need really. Battletech has so many designs out there that cramming in more isn't really needed, but I guess they wanted to make their mark or something.

MWO Gameplay logic. Its existence allows PGI to design a 'Mech to suit the gameplay rather then deriving it from an existing design.
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Requiemking

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #16 on: 05 January 2018, 02:13:02 »
Its alright. The armor is a little low, but its matches the Summoner, so its not the end of the world. The 14 DHS are perhaps a bit much, but they're all in the engine so that's not incredibly bad either, though obviously if you wanted to go for something like twin Gauss Rifles, you're going to be incredibly oversinked.

It might be interested to see how the crits work out.

The fluff is eh. No big deal really. "Scientists conspired to get OmniTech, then couldn't make it work, so buried it while they waited for the Warriors to get it officially."

I do question the need really. Battletech has so many designs out there that cramming in more isn't really needed, but I guess they wanted to make their mark or something.
Well, according to the mech specs section of it's page in the Store, the Sun Spider has four locked crits in each side torso from Ferro and Endo, and a single locked crit in each limb, the CT, and the head. All in all, things are a bit cramped in the STs due to the six crits lost per ST(two to Ferro, two to Endo, and two the XL engine).
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YingJanshi

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #17 on: 05 January 2018, 02:33:54 »
Personally, I've grown tired of the design spam and liked BattleTech more when it had fewer 'Mech designs with more character.
Beyond that general grognard gripe, I don't have any specific problems with the Sun Spider, except perhaps that it looks as if it couldn't mass more than 40 tons. It's not ugly or weird, it just doesn't visually convey a 70-ton feeling; YMMV.

MWO canon is obscure. According to a ruling Randall Bills himself made, with Line Developer hat on, all Hero 'Mech fluff for MWO is canon for CGL's "core" BattleTech IP.
There is a Hero 'Mech Sun Spider, ergo the 'Mech is canon - that is, its name, backstory, and individual Hero 'Mech are canon. Its stats... only insofar as established by the fluff. By contrast, the MWO stats aren't canon.

The backstory marks this as a very obscure design - like many of my beloved BattleTechnology designs. The story isn't too bad; but it kinda sorta makes sure this design will always be a fringe design, too rare to make an impact. So ultimately, it's an okay design with little if any relevance. Nice, but unneccessary.

My 2 cents.

Since Randell doesn't wear the LD hat anymore I guess it depends on if Mr. Evans has other thoughts about that ruling....

As for the looks of the thing...yeah, the legs do look like someone put them on backwards (though I think it wouldn't quite so silly if the back of the foot extended to maybe half what it does.)

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Maingunnery

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #18 on: 06 January 2018, 20:52:28 »

Make the front toes bigger and the legs thicker and the designs looks just fine.

I hope that the EscorpiĆ³n Imperio manages to put it in production, they really need them.
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marauder648

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #19 on: 07 January 2018, 03:07:29 »
I like the look of it, only thing i'd do is give it bigger toes, but otherwise the design and fluff is all good in my books
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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #20 on: 07 January 2018, 13:42:56 »

I've used nearly identical configurations to the C and Manul on very similar 70-ton, 5/8, omni homegrowns.  About as efficient as you can get.  Would be great to see them available for official play.

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Caedis Animus

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #21 on: 28 January 2018, 02:10:56 »
MWO Gameplay logic. Its existence allows PGI to design a 'Mech to suit the gameplay rather then deriving it from an existing design.
I'd say it is more of a both situation. Making a mark and making a decent design for MWO.

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #22 on: 29 January 2018, 04:27:06 »
I hope this 'Mech gets ported over to mainline BT in some fashion; unlike some others, I'm always happy to see new designs added to the roster, and the Goliath Scorpions never got much love in the TROs over the years, so I think throwing them a bone wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.


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Maelwys

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #23 on: 30 January 2018, 00:10:46 »
I don't know if we will. Considering its designed by PGI, I'd assume that they'd hold the copyrights to it, and thus CGL wouldn't touch it, considering the line's history of trouble with IP.

Then again, maybe there's some sort of deal in the works that they'd be willing to trust.

But where would we see it? A historical wouldn't work. And unless we see the EI's tech and production level increase (heck, see anything from the EI), we wouldn't really see it there.

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #24 on: 30 January 2018, 00:55:17 »
But where would we see it? A historical wouldn't work. And unless we see the EI's tech and production level increase (heck, see anything from the EI), we wouldn't really see it there.

Truth being told, it'd be pretty easy to retroactively slip it into the prior timeline. It's not like we see much of the Goliath Scorpions on-screen anyway, and I don't see anything that would mean its presence would break existing continuity.

Besides which, new 'Mechs get retroactively edited into Battletech canon all the time. Look at the Dragoon, the Royal 'Mechs, Atlas II, TDR-5L Thunderbolt, Hector, Cronus... Yeah. I can't see any reason why the Sun Spider (or Roughneck, for that matter) couldn't join them.
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Maelwys

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #25 on: 30 January 2018, 02:07:35 »
Besides which, new 'Mechs get retroactively edited into Battletech canon all the time. Look at the Dragoon, the Royal 'Mechs, Atlas II, TDR-5L Thunderbolt, Hector, Cronus... Yeah. I can't see any reason why the Sun Spider (or Roughneck, for that matter) couldn't join them.

Sure, but they usually go into a product that makes sense for them. Dragoon gets slipped into a Historical dealing with Amaris and the Civil War, the Royals get slipped into the whole "We discovered this new data core," etc.

Where are we going to see the Sun Spider? It seems unlikely that they're going to revisit the Invasion Era, and we already have a 3052 and a 3062 Era report, so it can't be slipped in there (which would've been a good place for it). We're finished with the Wars of Reaving, and the Scorpions are currently in a place that isn't being covered by the storyline (so far). I suppose we could see it as a design that's been returned to service by one of the IS Clans, but that's not giving the Scorpions any love.

marauder648

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #26 on: 30 January 2018, 02:51:27 »
Simple way around the Invasion era issue.  Other Clans simply didn't use it, making it a Scorpion specific Mech.  Either A. Due to the Scorpions defending them like madmen during any trial for them or B "It is the product of drug addled historians, not Warriors, it is beneath our notice" and they simply ignored it and as the only way to get them would be salvage, any that appear in other Clans Tourmans would basically be singular machines.

We know that some Clans have Mechs that are and were specific to them, it could be this case and as the Scorps are a Clan that very very rarely gets any limelight, it can slip through the cracks.
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Maelwys

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #27 on: 31 January 2018, 10:21:00 »
Sure, but the whole "What product does this fit in," remains.

marauder648

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #28 on: 31 January 2018, 10:22:21 »
TRO 3050 Homeworld Clans :D
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Maingunnery

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Re: Opinions on the Sun Spider.
« Reply #29 on: 31 January 2018, 12:14:43 »
TRO 3050 Homeworld Clans :D
I would buy that.  :)
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