Fixing Autocannon (my take on the issue)

[va_wanderer]

I honestly wouldn't have problems with a weapon having a ROF of 4,2,or 1- and effectively folding Solaris VII "3" into ROF 1. You'd just have to give all rotary/UAC guns special rules.

However, it'd add a level of complexity that might bog things down completely. Which is a problem with S7 rules, even if they give a big hand to ballistic (and missile) weaponry.

[evilauthor]

I honestly wouldn't have problems with a weapon having a ROF of 4,2,or 1- and effectively folding Solaris VII "3" into ROF 1. You'd just have to give all rotary/UAC guns special rules.

However, it'd add a level of complexity that might bog things down completely. Which is a problem with S7 rules, even if they give a big hand to ballistic (and missile) weaponry.

The thing is that if you implement RoF in standard 10 second turns, the simplest thing to do would be simply have them make multiple attacks as if you had more than one of those weapons. In game play, what's the difference between a single Medium Laser that shoots twice during one turn, and TWO Medium Lasers that each only fire ONCE during one turn? AFAICT, there'd be no difference at all until the double shooting Medium laser takes a crit.

If a weapon can fire more per turn, just resolve each attack separately as if they were different weapons; it need not be any more complicated than that. And it's not like there's any shortage of mechs with lots of little weapons anyway.

Okay, sure, there'd be a difference in mech construction, but construction is not game play.

[ialdabaoth]

The thing is that if you implement RoF in standard 10 second turns, the simplest thing to do would be simply have them make multiple attacks as if you had more than one of those weapons. In game play, what's the difference between a single Medium Laser that shoots twice during one turn, and TWO Medium Lasers that each only fire ONCE during one turn? AFAICT, there'd be no difference at all until the double shooting Medium laser takes a crit.

If a weapon can fire more per turn, just resolve each attack separately as if they were different weapons; it need not be any more complicated than that. And it's not like there's any shortage of mechs with lots of little weapons anyway.

Okay, sure, there'd be a difference in mech construction, but construction is not game play.

We've handled Ultra and Rotary AC in exactly this way, and it works great. Incidentally, just having every shot past the first jam on a to-hit  roll of '2' is almost identical, statistically, to the RAW jam probabilities.

If I were going to fix autocannon, I'd use the following rules:

-"Light" autocannon are renamed "Snub Autocannon", since that's what they really are.
-AC/2 are renamed "Light Autocannon"; AC/5 are renamed "Medium Autocannon" (or just "Autocannon"); AC/10 are renamed "Heavy Autocannon"; AC/20 are renamed "Assault Autocannon". In-character names referring to game-mechanic numbers make my teeth itch.

- All Autocannon use caseless ammo (double listed ammunition per ton), and can be unjammed following Rotary AC rules..

- HV Autocannon have a maximum RoF of 1.
- Standard, Snub and LB-X Autocannon have a maximum RoF of 2.
- Ultra Autocannon have a maximum RoF of 3.
- Rotary Autocannon have a maximum RoF of 6.

The first shot per turn is made as normal; subsequent shots jam on a to-hit roll of '2'.

[Sandslice]

I always figured that the numbers "in world" stood for some weapon property.  Using old real-world weapons for reference, the German 8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56 is an 88mm caliber combat vehicle cannon, model number 36, of barrel length 56x its caliber.

The British Ordnance QF 6 Pounder 7cwt is a quick firing (ie, it ejects the shell casing on its own) artillery that fires roughly 6 pound ammunition and has a total gun and barrel weight of 7 long hundredweights, or 355kg.

The AC/x number could refer to a Star League standard caliber, or to the weight of ammo fired per burst (if only AC/2s had 50 shots per ammo-ton instead of the strange 45...)

[mutantmagnet]

Their total ammo was reduced to 45 shots for balance purposes.

[A. Lurker]

Their total ammo was reduced to 45 shots for balance purposes.

Because of course an AC/2 with 50 shots to the ton instead of only 45 would be a complete and utter game-breaker, yes. ;)

Really, it's one of those silly decisions from the early days...much like giving the SRM 6 only 90 missiles to the ton because 100 isn't evenly divisible by 6 and 96 / 6 doesn't end in a neat 5 or 0.

[evilauthor]

I always figured that the numbers "in world" stood for some weapon property.  Using old real-world weapons for reference, the German 8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56 is an 88mm caliber combat vehicle cannon, model number 36, of barrel length 56x its caliber.

The British Ordnance QF 6 Pounder 7cwt is a quick firing (ie, it ejects the shell casing on its own) artillery that fires roughly 6 pound ammunition and has a total gun and barrel weight of 7 long hundredweights, or 355kg.

The AC/x number could refer to a Star League standard caliber, or to the weight of ammo fired per burst

If the fluff didn't totally contradict it, AC ammo could have been like missile ammo in that all ACs would use the same ammo. There would literally be 100 bullets in a one ton bin and the number on an Autocannon would refer to how many bullets were being used in a single burst.

OTOH, I understand that back in the day when the TRO3025 fluff was being written, it hadn't been clarified yet whether ACs were burst shooters or used semi-auto (one bullet per turn). Hence we have calibers all over the place.

Heck, I still think of LB-X ACs as semi-auto weapons, which hugely explains why burst firing standard ACs can't use LBX ammo.

[AWAD]

What about this:

Autocannons can fire as many times in a turn as you want. Every second shot and above gets a stacking targeting modifier from the previous shots. 

AC20, +4
AC10, +3
AC5, +2
AC2, +1

UACs don't get the firing modifier until the SECOND shot.

I think this is self-balancing. Accuracy puts hard limits on damage, Ammo consumption puts hard limits on how much you can fire/oh god your entire mech is explosive! Accuracy modifiers make targeting computers useful. Heat makes heat sinks important and bracketing possible.

I used something similar to that for years, like once the TRO2750 or clans came out.   Most players were good with it. You hit it on the head, you still generate heat and then you blow through ammo something fierce. I hated the roll of an 8, loss less than 50% to hit with two shots so I made Ultra to fire more often. Seemed to be pretty balanced. Until the guy with a 1 gunnery and 4 AC/2 Ultra just rip you apart from across the battlefield.

3. Following Fire for Direct Fire Ballistic Weapons
The following weapons may be fired more than once in a standard BattleTech Round. Following fire does have to be declared at the begining of the round.  All shots must be made at the same target.  Heat must be added up for every shot took at the end of the round.
            Weapons                    1 Shot    2 Shot    3 Shot    4 Shot    5 Shot    6 Shot    7 Shot    8 Shot                               
 AC/2                                          0             +1           +2           +3              -              -              -              -
 AC/5                                          0             +2           +4             -               -              -       -      -
 AC/10                                        0             +3       -       -       -         -       -        -
 AC/20                                        0             +5            -        -         -         -        -      -
 AC/ 2 Ultra                               0              +1           +1           +2            +2          +3            +3           +4
 AC/5  Ultra                               0              +1           +2           +3            +4      -      -      -
 LB Autocannons cannot switch ammo between shots
 LB-10X                                      0              +3            -       -       -      -      -      -
 LB-20X                                      0              +5        -       -       -      -      -      -
 MG                                             0               0             +2          +2             -             -               -               -
 Gauss Rifle                                0               -        -       -       -      -      -      -

AWAD- Real Mean Drive Locusts

[AWAD]

No matter how many years, how many sites, how many forums, there is still an attempt to fix the poor autocannon. Love it.

But one non-combat way I did it in campaigns is I gave laser weapons a huge maintenance multiplier. So no ammo but lots of loving work to keep the crystals aligned and capacitors cleaned.


AWAD- Real Men Avoid the AC 20 and laugh at the AC2

[Nebfer]

Well something I have been mulling over, some of these have been seen before...

50-60% more ammo per ton
MG ammo is cut in half
AC-2-  80 shots
AC-5-  32 shots
AC-10- 16 shots
AC-20-  8 shots

Lt Gauss  24 shots
Gauss     12 shots
Hvy Gauss  6 shots
SB Gauss  12 shots

HAG-20 9 shots
HAG-30 6 shots
HAG-40 4 shots

AP Gauss 60 shots
Mag Shot 80 shots

HVAC-2  60 shots
HVAC-5  24 shots
HVAC-10 12 shots

LMG 100 shots
MG  100 shots
HMG  50 shots

PAC-2 60 shots
PAC-4 30 shots
PAC-8 15 shots

For the PSR on 20+ damage, ballistic weapons have a +2 to this effect per ballistic weapon (I.e. a AC-2 would count as having done 4 damage, an AC-20 22 damage).
Silver bullet Gauss is now a true LBX Gauss rifle, capable of switching between regular and "cluster" rounds
AP and precision AC ammo reduce ammo count to original AC ammo values (Ie. 45, 20, 10 and 5 respectively)
Ultra Auto cannons can now be unjammed as per RACs, though for added flavor early models will still "brake" when they jam. So LBXs from 3025 to 3060 will still brake, from 3061 on word they don't, if unsure if it's an older model or not role 1D6 on a role of 3+ it's the older model in 3060, in 3065 4+, 3070 5+ & 3075 6+


How much dose this improve them?
Well I doubt it improves them significantly but I was aiming of not changing much in the way of rules...

[Cowdragon]

I'm still down with the retroactive renaming to "Light AC" "Medium AC" "Heavy AC" and "Assault AC" :)

the 2-20 naming is weird. I've seen decent reasons for it... but in-game? Hmmm

[Suralin]

I'm still down with the retroactive renaming to "Light AC" "Medium AC" "Heavy AC" and "Assault AC" :)

the 2-20 naming is weird. I've seen decent reasons for it... but in-game? Hmmm

That only really works if the canon Light ACs are ignored, tho.

[evilauthor]

the 2-20 naming is weird. I've seen decent reasons for it... but in-game? Hmmm

Now that I think about it, those numbers are actually based on the percentage of a ton used with every "shot" an AC fires. There's 100 damage in a ton of AC ammo, so an AC-20 uses 20 percent of that ton every time a trigger is pulled.

Of course, the AC/2 is gimped slightly in that it has 45 "shots" per ton instead of 50...

[ialdabaoth]

That only really works if the canon Light ACs are ignored, tho.

Or renamed to "Snub Light AC" and "Snub AC"

[Notsonoble]

I saw a lot of request for changes to ammunition instead of actually changing the stats for ACs themselves so but not quite what I think would work:

All "standard" A/C ammo has the current effect of Armor Piercing Ammo. AP's ammo modifiers for crits are changed to AC 20 = +1, AC 10 = 0, AC 5 = -1,  AC 2 = -2.

The only thing is this makes the RAC 5 freaking sick.

[Gryphon]

Perhaps Rotary ACs use lower pressure ammunition to keep heat and recoil down, so they don't generate the same penetration chances?

[Cowdragon]

also, part of the problem I'm seeing with suggestions to fix the AC's involve way too many new and complicated rules. The fix should be simple and retroactive. As soon as large charts are needed it's too much.