Kotetsu, that was spiffy article. You did leave out a design however, the AS7-D-DC. It showed up during the Star League era, was printed in Record Sheets: 3039 Unabridged. It has experimental technology, with inclusion of a Command Console and minus two rear firing Medium Lasers. It truly make the machine a command Mech for its era.
I used to hold nothing but contempt for many of the Atlas' out there, but one game my force got absolutely and positively dismantled by an Altas -K2. It just wouldn't. Stop. Coming. All of its shots landed where they would do the most damage, and it was always where it'd be the biggest pain to deal with.
Hmm.. I have never had that bad luck with Atlas's as some like you seem, so don't hold them in contempt cause of that. Of the main stays of the Atlas family the Original, the 7-k are my usual go to's.. Though if the DM is allowing 'changes out of gear' i often like stripping the SRM-6 down to a streak 4 pack, knocking the LRM down to a 15 with artemis, switching up to double heats and using the tonnage saved to put on something like a PPC or ER large laser for added ranged weapons. Rarely have they fallen to a 'quick head or CT crit', and only 2 iirc have been destroyed due to ammo explosions.This, the only thing that really hampers the 7-K is the lack of DHS. Once you stopping wasting space on SHS, have have more room to make the Atlas a true monster.
I have two variants that I especially like:My favourite way of fixing that? Drop the LRM-20 for 2 LL and two SHS, then lug around a Handheld Weapon with a LRM-15 in it, no loss of short range firepower, you gain medium range firepower and a minor loss of long range firepower.
- AS7-RS Atlas
- in 3025 games
- it cures the greatest flaw of standard Atlas - very short range
Do I need to repeat my mentioning about the design I came up with with twin ER LL's for eyes?[/list](http://i.imgur.com/V0xG0.jpg)
- AS7-S3 Atlas
- in 3050+ games
- it packs serious firepower
- it's a variant from PC game and I like those 'Mechs from MechWarrior and MechCommander games
- it sports pulse laser in its eye socket ...
What's not to like here? ;)
That too. If you're not attacking or defending a (relatively) immobile position with the Atlas then "you're doing it wrong"<tm>
I've used the Atlas and it hasn't been all that. Granted, primarily 3025 era games, but the slow speed combined with only one weapon with greater than 9 hex range means that it isn't very useful. Really, I prefer the Hunchback to the Atlas. Both work as area denial, just the Hunchback is cheaper.an LRM20 is nothing to sneeze at.. your looking at an average of 12 damage per salvo, in a 5/5/2 grouping, which is pretty good for 3025. plenty to cover itself as it closes.
That too. If you're not attacking or defending a (relatively) immobile position with the Atlas then "you're doing it wrong"<tm>Or deploy it as a command mech, so that the Atlas itself is the "(relatively) immobile position".
+8D, I can get behind this. I miss having something to open holes like a big hammerblow Gauss or something, but this is a good one, especially for anti-vehicle work. I approve.
I have two variants that I especially like:
...
AS7-S3 Atlas
- in 3050+ games
- it packs serious firepower
- it's a variant from PC game and I like those 'Mechs from MechWarrior and MechCommander games
- it sports pulse laser in its eye socket ...
What's not to like here? ;)
It always seemed to me that no one wanted to make a 'Super Atlas.' As in, 'Oh crap, that's an Atlas.' The kinda Atlas that would necessitate brown pants everywhere. This makes me sad. :(
Jedra Kean was a man.
One of the things I like about the Atlas is that an anonymous IP keeps editing the entry on the Wiki to amend the plural of Atlas to "Atlantes" while pointing out - in capitals, no less - that Atlas is a noun of the THIRD DECLENSION. 100 tons of theoretically terrifying 'Mech that attracts the attention of Latin or Greek-proficient pedants - that's a unique niche if ever there was one.
It always seemed to me that no one wanted to make a 'Super Atlas.' As in, 'Oh crap, that's an Atlas.' The kinda Atlas that would necessitate brown pants everywhere. This makes me sad. :(funny, in my experience any Atlas gets a "oh crap, that an Atlas" response..
Anyone ever pitted the Atlas Samsonov against the Banshee-3S?
cheers,
Gabe
It always seemed to me that no one wanted to make a 'Super Atlas.' As in, 'Oh crap, that's an Atlas.' The kinda Atlas that would necessitate brown pants everywhere. This makes me sad. :(... you never even got the reaction with a Atlas II? ???
Against the likes of a Thunderhawk or King Crab or Highlander, not really. :(The Atlas II AS7-D-H2;
Well then. At least I can warm up to the Atlas II. Does it still look goofy as all get out?Unfortunately yes but their are some nice bashes out there
The Atlas II AS7-D-H2;
ER PPC
Gauss Rifle
LRM 20
SRM 6
2X Medium Pulse Lasers
That at least matches the Highlander.
Am I the only one that likes the 4/6 Atlas? It seems to be more focused than the older models.
...which is the first and last time the Atlas was put together correctly in 3050+. Dropping that terrible double ERLL combination allows you to... you know.... do something. The -CM was the next best variant for the same reason. Not paying BV for a weapon that the mech can't really handle.
And, you know, Stone painted an Atlas II in black and bones, then posed for the Strat Ops cover. Pure badness.
Am I the only one that likes the 4/6 Atlas? It seems to be more focused than the older models.
...
Am I the only one that likes the 4/6 Atlas? It seems to be more focused than the older models.
Honestly, I don't like them:
1) some bad experiences with similar FWL 4/6 Assaults such as Grand Titan
2) -K2, -K3 and -K4 have one thing in common: They have more weapons than their heat sinks can handle. On paper, those 'Mechs might seem okayish, but realistically speaking, their armament is quite paltry. And if you check their BV against what those 'Mechs can actually do on the battlefield ...
The K2 especially seems like a Grand Titan rip off. But, since the 3050s, has the Atlas really done anything standout that can't be said of the Banshee or Highlander?
The FedSuns now have the Atlas III. So I wonder what will happen with the 8-D version and whether it will continue to be produced.
I don't know how to feel about the design. I am not that big of a fan of the Light-PPC. And with a RAC/5 already on the design. I don't think doing more 5 point damage clusters is what is needed. It kind of makes it a design for finishing off 'Mechs or killing light stuff. But it isn't really fast enough to kill light stuff, unless they were forced into a bad position.
Most assaults are too slow, though you do have a point. The Atlas 8-D does feel like a finisher to me, something that can easily kill off targets that were badly damaged by the cavalry units, freeing them up to move on to new targets. This makes me like it more actually, since it irritates me how too many people expect all 80-ton-plus units to fit themselves firmly in the role of line-of-battle smasher, denying any assault that tries to be as flexible as their lighter brethren or that fills any other role. Assault is both a weight class and a role, and a unit that fits in one category does not always have to belong in the other as well.
3/5 mechs are designed to hold or take hard targets or turf.
Many are. That's still far to broad a generalization to make about all 'mechs of that speed curve without seeing the rest of a given unit's stats.
Personally i rather my atlas stay at 3/5 for the NO XL engine issue.
Or the heat curve, which has been a problem with many 3050+ Atlas models. Armor, yes. Guns, yes. Heat sinks, not so much.The first round of post-3050 Atlases, the AS7-K, AS7-C and AS7-CM and simply switch to using DHS and solve that problem
That would also likely solve the Atlas problem of too many guns and not enough heat sinks. If weight savings from the engines aren't there, the guns are likely going to suffer. I'm not overly harsh on a 400XL engine because it can cram in more heat sinks without crit space, and as stated, gives it a little more flexibility. Not to mention the 4/6 threashold over the 3/5. Worlds away in performance. The trouble with the K2-4 series is that the primary problem weapons- the lasers and PPCs still exist.
Now can you solve the issue without resorting to a custom?Assign a coolant truck to follow the Atlas around?
I've always seen the Atlas as something you use when you want to yell "You shall not pass!!"
...
However, that feels like a waste of firepower. Has anyone considered a Kerensky assignment configuration? Give the Atlas to your CO's bodyguard, and put the commander in a different command mech, like say an Orion. The attention will still go to the Atlas, but let the commander avoid taking fire for a while. The LRMs let the bodyguard contribute to the overall fight, but lets him focus on watching the Commander's back, and swatting any enemy rude enough to interrupt him with the short range battery.
If necessary the CO can send his bodyguard forward to break an enemy's strong point with the Atlas's massive armor and firepower, while not risking integrity of command like if he was in the Atlas himself.
Part of the problem is that the 3050 Kurita Atlases are crit packed. If you do a simple swap to DHS, there's no way you have room for the heat sinks. You can drop a bunch of the heat sinks (down to 14), but then you're stuck with 6 tons left over, and few crits to play around with. You could spam in a bunch of MPLs, but its kind of boring...
Part of the problem is that the 3050 Kurita Atlases are crit packed. If you do a simple swap to DHS, there's no way you have room for the heat sinks. You can drop a bunch of the heat sinks (down to 14), but then you're stuck with 6 tons left over, and few crits to play around with. You could spam in a bunch of MPLs, but its kind of boring...You can drop some of the heat sinks on the AS7-K and the problem almost solves it self
You can drop some of the heat sinks on the AS7-K and the problem almost solves it self
Or you can take the "Panther solution" and downgrade the ER LLs to standard models. Yes you lose range, but you don't lose damage and the heat can be much better controlled.
cheers,
Gabe
I'll have to tinker sometime with a halfway measure of switching to PPCs to use up the extra weight- no idea if I can get it to work, just a musing while I'm reading this, but twin standard PPCs and a Gauss? I'd run like hell from that in 3050.
Well, it took the Elsies 12 more years, but the AS7-S3 fields exactly that.One could even go the way of Atlas "Samsonov".
One could even go the way of Atlas "Samsonov".
Replace AC-20 with Gauss Rifle and CASE and you could even reduce the number of SHS (to 20 or 21) - and you would have approximately four or five tons for weapons or equipment. Medium lasers maybe (for covering the minimum range).
And all this with Standard Engine and great durability.
Very cheap, easy maintenance ...
People... let's not do this. We're here to talk about the Atlas as it is.
People... let's not do this.
... We're here to talk about the Atlas as it is.
Is Atlas III going to gets its own article or is it considered part of the original Atlas family?
I agree. In canon, the DCA stole all DHS destined originally for the DCMS (Panther, Atlas, Jenner)Probably the direction the Lyran's should have gone with the K2 vs a bigger engine.
What do you think about AS7-Dr?
I would say it's a quite reasonable refit. Perhaps the only thing I would change would be replacing its C3 slave for some anti-infantry or anti-BA weapon.
Not a fan of C3 myself but I can see the benefits when for indirect fire.C3 doesn't help IDF
C3 doesn't help IDF.... :P There goes the only reason I would use C3 :D
Assign a coolant truck to follow the Atlas around?Now I have the mental image of this coolant truck parked next to an Atlas, spraying water all over it with a hose, while the Atlas is making these typical movie girl is getting sprayed with water while washing the car poses.
Now I have the mental image of this coolant truck parked next to an Atlas, spraying water all over it with a hose, while the Atlas is making these typical movie girl is getting sprayed with water while washing the car poses.
It's moments like these I wish I could draw. :-\
Now I have the mental image of this coolant truck parked next to an Atlas, spraying water all over it with a hose, while the Atlas is making these typical movie girl is getting sprayed with water while washing the car poses.
I think I'm gonna need some hair metal to play the next time I run an Atlas... ;D
"The 'wet Atlas' is creepy enough, did they need the loudspeakers playing 'Cherry Pie' to go with it though?"
C3 is awesome though, what's not to like? Well, sides the BV, but that's not really a justification if you look purely at the powerlevel.I have nothing against C3 but I never bother to go through the trouble of building a lance around the C3 network to take full advantage of it.
If your already a fan of the C3, you probably already have a good idea of what mechs you would team up with the AS7-Dr.
"The 'wet Atlas' is creepy enough, did they need the loudspeakers playing 'Cherry Pie' to go with it though?"
Martian hit on my thinking- if we already had an Atlas in the DCMS packing twin PPCs, why not make that your go-to configuration for an upgrade? (With DHS, natch)
Granted, no idea if it would work, but it would be a hell of an improvement over the 7K.
Is Atlas III going to gets its own article or is it considered part of the original Atlas family?
Oh, and one thing that seems to have been missed in the OP: The AS-7S2 and S3 variants have LRM 15s with Artemis IV, not LRM 20s.
I never liked the weapon placement, though, and I have never grown fond (or rather not scared) of any upgraded variants with especially the 3050 variants giving me fits. The AS7-K2 and -K3 continue the terrible tradition of carrying huge honking explody weapons in ther side torsos and use XL engines. Yes, it is not as bad as many say, because you got to eat through that armour first before the explody bits are even a factor and I use Mechs with this flaw myself, but for me it goes completely against the character of the Atlas. It is meant to be the biggest, meanest kid on the block that just keeps coming at you regardless of what you throw at it. (and they look goofy, too.)
My favorite arrangement has always been to place the close range weaponry in the torso with long range guns in the arms. That way I can let fly with a full barrage at close range and still get the thing off their face.And then punch if they get TOO close.
And then punch if they get TOO close.The prototype AS8-D from JTP: New Avalon.
Thinking on that, i can't remember did they ever make a TSM version?
The Atlas II AS7-D-H2;
ER PPC
Gauss Rifle
LRM 20
SRM 6
2X Medium Pulse Lasers
That at least matches the Highlander.
How do you like this vs the other clan tech version?
The forgotten 7S to me seems like more of an upgrade of existing chassis, not a complete rebuild.That happens to be exactly how I use it.
The first round of post-3050 Atlases, the AS7-K, AS7-C and AS7-CM and simply switch to using DHS and solve that problemIf your fielding the CM then you don't really need DHS. That thing has a nearly heat perfect curve for long ranged fire.
I have nothing against C3 but I never bother to go through the trouble of building a lance around the C3 network to take full advantage of it.
If your already a fan of the C3, you probably already have a good idea of what mechs you would team up with the AS7-Dr.
...More Atlases?
I think, you've got to use the Atlas as part of a team for it to be effective. As has been stated, it has its limitations but boy can it take a pounding and still walk away!
A LB-10x i could see. Good range, still good damage. But a Fiver?? What was that designer smoking?Not exactly an option around that time frame. Regardless, at a glance I'd say the A really shines when it's working up close with an AS7-D or waiting for an AS7-RS to put in some work.
The AC/5 is never an efficient weapon, but there are mechs that use it reasonably well. Zeus, Trebuchet -7K, maybe even the super-bug known as the Clint.
A new mech variant from Record Sheets Succession Wars, the Atlas AS7-A is not one of those mechs.
.....
The weight saved by downgrading the two big guns on a classic Atlas are plowed into SRM tubes. Lots of them, giving it something in common with the Zeus -6A. Thirty SRM is a lot of firepower, no matter how you look at it. With four tons of ammo, you even have a couple turns more fire than the old AC/20 did. However...
However, it took me at most fifteen seconds to come up with the obvious upgrade. I’m sure somebody will mention it within five posts.
Yeah, the old PPC > AC5 doesn't always apply in a lot of the cases I see it suggested.Potato, Potato.
This however is one of the times it would have been fine since you would use it w/ the LRMs & save the ML/SRM for short range.
As for why I myself said new tech options. That's on you. You said "Upgrade" not "Customization". They mean 2 different things to me.
You know, a good fast light can dodge an AC20 shot... usually.
But I'm so sure I'd want to try to dodge 30 SRMs.
That is a new high for SRMs on a L1 Mech I think.
PS. Love your removal of cover idea.
I need to bring that up to my local FLGS GM to see about adding that one as an optional rule each month.
When I fielded a couple of these (yes, a couple :D) the ammo loadout was two tons standard, two tons inferno, one ton frag. Step one was to hunt down an destroy with extreme prejudice every hex of heavy woods on my side of the map. I don't think my opponent (who favors 5/8/5 Heavies with good amounts of pulse lasers) was very happy with me for taking away the top end of the bell curve.
Why optional? Fragmentation ammo and destroying terrain is in Total Warfare. >:D
Why optional? Fragmentation ammo and destroying terrain is in Total Warfare. >:D
Inferno ammo alone, should do that, no need to go frag ammo.Not having TW on me atm, I assume Frag ammo does it either faster or without causing a fire.
Inferno ammo alone, should do that, no need to go frag ammo.
Inferno ammo alone, should do that, no need to go frag ammo.
If there's infantry in there, it would be intimidating to burn the woods down with them in it. So there's an argument for Inferno ammo there. :laughing_skull: [/Kurita]
AC/5 -> PPC + 2 SHS.
Seriously, it's an introtech mech, why are people trying to cram it with stuff unavailable for a century in either direction?
Good lord.
And the best part of the AS7-A is that you can remove a heavy woods in one go. No fiddly record keeping here! :D
Plus the gaining of smoke screens helps..
Wrong answer. The AS7-A is suffering from a severe shortage of Blazers. So AC/5 + ammo -> Blazer cannon. May not be Intro tech, but it is era appropriate.
Hmm, now I'm wondering about a Zeus that drops the AC & the LL to mount Blazer & ML & extra heatsinks.
we shouldprobably either keep the variants to a dull roar ormove to design forum.
we should probablyeither keep the variants to a dull roar ormove to design forum.
Wrong answer. The AS7-A is suffering from a severe shortage of Blazers. So AC/5 + ammo -> Blazer cannon. May not be Intro tech, but it is era appropriate.This is the correct answer. We need more blazers.
Well, Rec Guide 24 dropped a bunch of new variants. Be exciting to discuss them in depth once the moratorium ends.
Six week bans on covering specific new material out of new releases of PDFs are referred to as "Moratoriums" are in place at the request of the Powers That Be. These moratoriums apply to all series that tend to dwell heavily on the specifics of a given unit. Please note that the moratorium policy applies to all releases, not just those listed for authorial convenience. Product-level exceptions to this policy will be noted until the point at which they would normally fall out of moratorium is reached.
I just checked the availability of the AS7-A, and it is... CapCon and FWL?Since there's no write-up for it, unknown.
What's the story there?
I find great irony in the plethora of Atlas variants debuting in Rec Guide 24, because of how the Atlas was originally fluffed to have no variants, because no one wanted to mess with perfection.
I find great irony in the plethora of Atlas variants debuting in Rec Guide 24, because of how the Atlas was originally fluffed to have no variants, because no one wanted to mess with perfection.
You mean the original fluff from the book that also listed the Zeus as having been developed prior to the invention of the Battlemech?
I am a big fan of the A. That many SRMs is an extremely effective deterrent to an enemy armor unit in a way that a single AC/2 just doesn't quite capture. Being able to reduce even heavy woods to rough with a single volley of frag or inferno ammo is also very nice.
No it definitely got the right letter, it's A for the first time you declare how many SRMs you're firing and you get to hear your opponent's reaction. :thumbsup:Dunno, i'm pretty sure F would fit that better.
*Wishes the AS7-A was in MechWarrior Online :(*I believe the S model is borderline comparable. I used to run around with AC/20 and a battery of SRM-4s with Artemis, and once i managed to get behind the enemy team and one-shotted almost half of them.
*Wishes the AS7-A was in MechWarrior Online :(*I want to say the A was inspired by the MWO player builds of the S model, the only major difference is the smaller AC due to tech restrictions of the SW era.
The one good thing about the S was that as 3050 upgrades go, it actually did improve things without doing weird side-grade stuff. STK-5S, looking at you.Not sure i'd call the Stalker 5S a sidegrade. It does spend freed mass in upgrades, just needs more cooling but that's always been the case for most Stalkers. EDIT Granted, XL engine in a slow design is questionable.
Not sure i'd call the Stalker 5S a sidegrade. It does spend freed mass in upgrades, just needs more cooling but that's always been the case for most Stalkers. EDIT Granted, XL engine in a slow design is questionable.
LL to LPL is an upgrade IMO, because for average pilot probably ain't capable of really hitting anything in long range bracket reliably, but up to LL mid range, LPL doesn't lose anything (gains damage) and anything closer it is actually better.
The problem with LPL comes from other options, the ERLL, PPC, ERPPC, and later Snub-nose PPC, all of which are superior in most circumstances. But in vacuum vs LL, LPL is fine. And of course there's the question of a slow short range brawler but then again, the Atlas has always been that...
Admittedly it is hyperbole to call the Atlas S model terrible, but it feels like one of those cases where others could've used these upgrades better. Contrast to the Kuritan 3050 Panther and SL-17R Shilone... In case of this Atlas, the Stalker could've arguably used the heat sinks more than the Atlas itself as FedCom designs go.
The Atlas S, compared to the D, doesn't gain much from the DHS, additional medium laser when attacking front in most cases. To be sure, it does reduce its vulnerability to external heat and eases heat management, but neither are major gains IMO.
Aside from intentionally making a bad design, I'd imagine the Atlas-7S is the way it is because of how an AC20-Atlas is supposed to be run......
Juggernaut style, its not a long range gunboat, its designed to run forward every turn till its surrounded & then lash out like a giant amidst mortals.
Personally I think the 7S/7K both got it half right.
The DHS are a solid choice, the Gauss is another solid choice.
Together w/ some Artemis LRMs, Streak SRMs & CASE, & you would have had a true upgrade across the board.
AC20 in such a slow mech is a bad idea imo.
The Atlas was also designed as a command mech.
Right, enough armor to keep your commander alive and enough firepower to make any head hunter think twice about getting into minimum range.
You need to be smart taking on a Atlas one on one but it's more than likely that a Atlas is going to be commanding a lance at the very least and waiting for you to slip up or do something very stupid.
Committing to headhunting a 100-ton 'mech solo is generally under the guidlines of "Something very stupid" to begin with.
Committing to headhunting a 100-ton 'mech solo is generally under the guidlines of "Something very stupid" to begin with.
Oh come on, it's called 'Exterminator' for a reason, I'm sure you can take the skull-headed monster, right? LRM-10 and quad lasers, you got this, bro! And I'd tell you that even if I DIDN'T owe you fifty C-bills!If we are talking SLDF, they probably deployed a entire lance with void but they wouldn't be facing a Atlas.
I'd say they are for when its finally clobbering time & you fire those at the same target your getting physical with.